Will the Last Puppy to Leave the Planet Please Shut Off the Sun? 5/14

aka The Puppy Who Sold the Moon

The field for today’s royal rumble includes John C. Wright, Eric Flint, Vox Day, Tom Knighton, Spacefaring Kitten, Wayne Borean, Lis Carey, Lisa J. Goldstein, T.C. McCarthy, Kevin Standlee, Alexandra Erin, Thomas A. Mays, Brandon Kempner, Rick Moen, Peace Is My Middle Name, Bruce Baugh and Damien G. Walter. (Title credit to File 770 contributing editors of the day Whym and Rev. Bob.)

John C. Wright

”Suggested Reading for Sad Puppy Backstory” – May 14

Some of you came in to this theater late, and did not catch the first act.

For those of you puzzled or dazed or disgusted with the goings-on, allow me to provide a partial (and admittedly partial) list of the backstory on Puppy Related Sadness.

From Larry Correia you can get links to his original announcements of Sad Puppies 1,2,and 3. Allow me, at the risk of seeming egomaniacal, of listing only my own contributions to the movement and the columns leading up to it.

[Post includes around a dozen selected links.]

 

Eric Flint

“And Again On The Hugo Awards” – May 14

[Again, just a small excerpt of a long and wide-ranging post.]

I think one side in this dispute is wrong—that’s the side championed by Brad and Larry. I think that, not because I think the Hugo awards don’t have a lot of problems—I do, and I explained those at length in my first essay—but because their analysis of the problem is so wrong as to be downright wrong-headed. But I don’t think they pose a mortal threat to social justice, western civilization, science fiction or even the Hugo awards themselves.

 Why did they launch this brawl and keep pursuing it? Well, I’ve always been a devotee of Napoleon’s dictum: “Never ascribe to malevolence what can be adequately explained by incompetence.” I don’t think there was anything involved except that, driven by the modern American right’s culture of victimization—they are always being persecuted; there’s a war on white men, a war on Christmas (no, worse! a war on Christians themselves!), blah blah blah—they jumped to the conclusion that the reason authors they like weren’t getting Hugo awards or even nominations was because of the Great Leftwing Conspiracy against the righteous led by unnamed Social Justice Warriors—presumably being shuttled around the country in their nefarious plots in black helicopters—and off they went.

If they’d simply said: “We think the Hugos have gotten too skewed against popular authors in favor of literary authors,” there’d have still been a pretty ferocious argument but it never would have reached this level of vituperation.

 But simply stating a problem wasn’t good enough for them. No, following the standard modern right-wing playbook, SOMEBODY MUST BE TO BLAME.

 Enter… the wicked SJWs! (Whoever the hell they are. They’re to blame, dammit.)

 

Vox Day at Vox Popoli

“Islands in a sea of rhetoric” – May 14

I stopped commenting at File 770 as it proved to be another exercise in demonstrating the truth of Aristotle’s dictum about those who cannot be instructed. Give them dialectic and they shamelessly attempt to pick it apart, some honestly, most dishonestly, while constantly declaring that any errors or falsehoods on their part are irrelevant. Give them rhetoric to meet them at their level and they either cry about it or concoct pseudo-dialectic to explain why it’s not valid.

VD: SJWs always lie. SJW: I told the truth once back in 2007. See, you’re totally wrong. Your whole argument is disproved. You are a bad person. DISQUALIFIED!

But the ongoing Hugo coverage still makes for interesting reading, particularly as the few remaining commenters possessing intellectual integrity one-by-one throw up their hands and stop trying to force the relevant facts through the SJW’s cast-iron skulls. A pair of neutrals recounted typical experiences, as one of them juxstaposed his treatment at various Puppy sites versus SF-SJW Central:

 

Tom Knighton

“One problem with the Hugos that will never be solved?” – May 14

I’m sorry, but less than 50 votes got nominations on the ballot?  With such low numbers getting a work nominated, you can tell that there just aren’t that many people nominating.  This puts the fate of the Hugos in the hands of a few, which makes it possible for small groups to have a disproportional impact on the overall Hugos.  Let’s be honest, it’s why Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies were so effective.  Put those exact same groups into a pool of millions, and you’d never notice their impact.

However, back to the subject at hand, you have a handful of people who are essentially deciding who gets nominated for the Hugos, and if they don’t read something, it’s not getting nominated.  What if that handful hasn’t read the Best Book Ever Written yet?  Well, guess who isn’t getting a Hugo nomination?

That’s what almost happened with Three Body Problem this year.  The Puppies just hadn’t read it yet, so it didn’t make either slate.  It’s probably happened a dozen times previously, it’s just that this time there’s far more scrutiny being paid to the process.

 

Spacefaring Kitten on Spacefaring, Extradimensional Happy Kittens

“Disagreeing With Brad” – May 14

Because I so thoroughly disagree with Sad Puppy advocates, I’ve been thinking about doing a fisking of some essential Puppy advocate post. Fisking is a thing Larry Correia does sometimes in his blog, and as far as I’ve been able to decipher, what it means is a mean-spirited rebuttal of everything somebody else has written elseweb, line by line. Generally, it seems to involve a great deal of calling other people morons and idiots, but I’ll try to do it without the nasty parts, because I have no desire to be nasty.

An opportunity presented itself when Brad R. Torgersen published a blog post earlier today. In it, he says a lot of things that I don’t agree on. That let’s us, well, disagree.

 

Wayne Borean on Zauberspiegel International

“Hugo Gernsback Still Causing Controversy” – May 15

The Hugo Awards have lost their relevance. You might argue with me about the date I picked (1985), or my view of the Hugos, but you cannot argue with me about the demographics of fandom. We are a bunch of grey haired old folks, and the younger generation isn’t rushing to sit at our feet in awe for some reason.

To fix the problem we have to expand the Hugo Awards, and encourage younger people to get involved.

Yes, I am aware that I’m probably going to really annoy a lot of people by saying this, but we brought this on ourselves. We’ve been too self centered, for far too long.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“The Day the World Turned Upside Down, by Thomas Olde Heuvelt (author), Lia Velt (translator)” – May 14

The story is competently written, but it’s the worst sort of “literary” fictions: Nothing needs to make any sense, and the protagonist is not someone I’m inclined to care about at all, for good or ill. I don’t care what happens to him.

 

Adult Onset Atheist

“SNARL: Totaled” – May 14

I liked this story. I am not using “liked” as a euphemism for “reading this did not make me sick”. This story is a worthy Hugo nominee; the first story that has earned that description from amongst what I have so far read of this year nominees. Before I get into what is right with this story I should point out the a couple issues. This story is told through the juxtaposition of communications, but is recalled in near real time to the reader who does not exist in the story. The reader must carefully examine the types of communication; where it originates, how it is read, how the information is stored, even what type of images are implied by the mechanism of communication. However, when it comes to the story itself the reader is expected to unquestioningly act as an omnipotent recording device.

 

Lisa J. Goldstein on theinferior4

“The Hugo Ballot, Part 9: Novelettes” – May 14

[“Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust, Earth to Alluvium” by Gray Rinehart] is so slight, in fact, it could have been about half its size.  The first section, where Keller asks a Peshari artist to make him a tombstone and the artist refuses, might have been cut, and there are other unnecessary parts as well.  (The section gives us some important information about Keller and the Peshari, but that information could be presented in other ways.)  I actually like the idea of studying an enemy’s myths in order to defeat them, but I don’t think the story manages to use it to full advantage.

 

 

Kevin Standlee on Fandom Is My Way of Life

“Fandom Is A Pot-Luck Dinner” – May 13

My metaphor is that Fandom is a Pot-Luck Dinner. We have lots of acquaintances, we all like to eat, and we decide to hold a big pot-luck dinner where we can share our favorite dishes and socialize. We have so many friends and friends-of-friends that none of us owns a barn big enough to hold everyone, so we have to rent the community center. None of us is wealthy enough to do that on our own, so we ask everyone coming to not only bring a dish, but also to kick in part of the cost of renting the hall, plus the tables, chairs, etc. We’re not running a restaurant, and we’re not making a profit, just covering the cost of putting on the event. Some of us volunteer to schlep tables and chairs, others volunteer to wash dishes, and so forth. Everyone brings something. That means some of the food is stuff I personally like, and other stuff I hate. But that’s okay: I eat what I like, and leave the rest for those who like green bean casserole.

Somewhere along the way, we got the idea of voting among ourselves for what the best dishes were. (“Best Appetizer,” “Best Main Course,” “Best Dessert”) And we started holding this big pot-luck in different places so as to share the fun with our far-away friends who couldn’t necessarily make the trip to Our Fair City.

Well, now we’ve got people who started coming to the pot-luck, paying the share of the hall rental, and are angry that we’ve been choosing things they personally hate to eat, and have decided that they want to knock over all of the tables with food they dislike and insist that the rest of us eat that stuff that they personally like, because they say so. It should not be a surprise to them that the rest of us start saying, “I don’t think we want to invite you anymore; you’re making the rest of us very uncomfortable by your anti-social behavior.” They respond with variations of, “I paid my cover charge to your restaurant, and you’re responsible for feeding me things that I like, and to not serve food I don’t like!” and they don’t understand why that response alternately baffles or infuriates the rest of us.

 

Alexandra Erin on Blue Author Is About To Write

“The Barker and the Big Tent” – May 14

A pair of burly roustabouts flanked each of the gates. As Jake watched, a couple of people were roughly turned away from one. The bouncers’ faces were murderous, while the people they sent packing just looked scared. All the lines got shorter as people saw this and left in apparent disgust or, in some cases, fear.

“Well, lad, that’s where we let everyone in,” the barker said, then repeated, “Everyone is welcome in the Big Tent.” He cupped his hands over his mouth and shouted, “Come one, come all, to the Big Tent! If you believe that any show is a good show as long as it’s entertaining, this is the place for you!”

“So, who were those people, then?” Jake asked.

“Gatekeepers,” the barker said.

“No, I mean the people your gatekeepers turned away.”

Our gatekeepers?” the barker said. He let out a loud, raucous laugh, slapping his knee. “We don’t have gatekeepers, son! This is the Big Tent you’re talking about, and everyone’s welcome in the Big Tent! No, those nice gentlemen are there to keep the gatekeepers out.

 

Thomas A. Mays in a comment on File 770 – May 14

Just a point of order here. I am not “one of the gentlemen on the other side” as Chris Gerrib put it. I have no dog in this hunt. Chris has admitted that he originally had me confused with James May when he called me one of the louder voices on Brad Torgerson’s blog, but it brought him to my book, A Sword Into Darkness. Yeah, a sale!. I’m glad he enjoyed it somewhat, and as it was intended as an homage to some of the mil and hard SF I grew up with, I do understand his charge that it may seem “recycled” or “trope-ish” (though I and my fans don’t necessarily agree). What I don’t understand is why he keeps copying, spreading, or reposting this review around with the misleading intro. It’s a free ‘Net, so he can do as he pleases, but it seems to suggest he has more ideological axes to grind than I do. For the record, I’m a middle of the road guy and a newbie to this industry. I can see and appreciate both perspectives, but believe the rhetoric and vitriol folks keep injecting into the “discussion” may be actively preventing a fair resolution to the issues at hand rather than expediting that resolution. I myself would have loved to have gotten the recognition of being selected for a non-ideological Puppy slate before it all blew up. Now? I get how the anti-puppies feel about the recommendation slate perhaps skewing results, though I’m reserving judgment on whether or not it was bloc voting until after the ballots are revealed. I will not have any part of the No Award movement though, and I’m about halfway through my reading list. I’m looking forward to the Hugos, and I’m looking forward to seeing how Sad Puppies 4 responds to the criticisms of SP3. For all those who wanna check out my non-nominated, but much referred to novel A Sword Into Darkness, it’s for sale now on Amazon and Smashwords. Take care, Tom Mays

 

Brandon Kempner on Chaos Horizon

“Hugo Award Nomination Ranges, 2006-2015, Part 4” – May 13

Maybe we don’t want to know how the sausage is made. The community is currently placing an enormous amount of weight on the Hugo ballot, but does it deserve such weight? One obvious “fix” is to bring far more voters into the process—lower the supporting membership cost, invite other cons to participate in the Hugo (if you invited some international cons, it could actually be a “World” process every year), add a long-list stage (first round selects 15 works, the next round reduces those 5, then the winner), etc. All of these are difficult to implement, and they would change the nature of the award (more voters = more mainstream/populist choices). Alternatively, you can restrict voting at the nominating stage to make it harder to “game,” either by limiting the number of nominees per ballot or through a more complex voting proposals.

 

Rick Moen in a comment on File 770 – May 13

Con Chair: What happen?
SMOF: Somebody set up us the tail.
Operator: We get spoor.
Con Chair: What!
SMOFr: Main piddle turn on.
Con Chair: It’s You!!
Dogs: How are you, fandom!! All your Hugo are belong to us. You are on the way to SJWdom.
Con Chair: What you say!!
Dogs: You have no chance to nominate make your time. Ha Ha Ha Ha ….
SMOF: Con Chair!!
Con Chair: Take off every “Noah”!! You know what you doing. Move “Noah”. For great justice.

 

Peace Is My Middle Name in a comment on File 770 – May 13

It was a dark and stormy mutt; the rage fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of whinge which swept up the streets (for it is in Spokane that our scene lies), rattling along the hotel-ballrooms, and fiercely agitating the skiffy flames of the fans that struggled against the darkness.

 

Bruce Baugh in a comment on File 770 – May 13

Toward the end of a stormy summer afternoon, with the sun finally breaking out under ragged black rain clouds, Castle Worldcon was overwhelmed and its population destroyed.

Until almost the last moment the factions among the fans were squabbling as to how Destiny properly should be met. The SMOFs of most prestige and account elected to ignore the en­tire undignified circumstance and went about their normal pursuits, with neither more nor less punctilio than usual. A few CHORFs, des­perate to the point of hysteria, took up weapons and prepared to resist the final assault. Others still, perhaps a quarter of the total population, waited passively, ready—almost happy—to expiate the sins of fandom.

In the end death came uniformly to all; and all extracted as much satisfaction in their dying as this essentially graceless process could afford. The letter hacks sat turning the pages of their beautiful zines, or discussing the qualities of a century-old essence, or fondling a fa­vorite Powers cover. They died without deigning to heed the fact. The hot-heads raced up the muddy slope which, outraging all normal rationality, loomed above the parapets of Worldcon. Most were buried under sliding rubble, but a few gained the ridge to blog, hack, tweet, until they themselves were shot, crushed by the half-alive power-wagons, hacked or stabbed. The contrite waited in the classic pos­ture of gafiation, on their knees, heads bowed, and perished, so they believed, by a process in which the Puppies were symbols and fannish sin the reality. In the end all were dead: letterhacks, actifen, faans in the lounges; dealers in the dealer rooms. Of all those who had inhabited Worldcon, only the media fans survived, creatures awkward, gauche and raucous, oblivious to pride and faith, more concerned with the wholeness of their hides than the dignity of their con.

 

Rick Moen in a comment on File 770 – May 13

No one would have believed in the first years of the twenty-first century that the SFF world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences stranger than fen’s and yet as demented as his own; that as fen busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a fan with a mimeograph machine might Letter of Comment about the transient mundanes that swarm and wander in a convention hotel lobby. With infinite complacency fen went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over genre. It is possible that the mundanes in the convention hotel do the same … Yet, across the gulf of the Internet, minds that are like unto our canines, intellects energetic and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this fandom with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us. — Not Entirely H.G. Wells, Either

488 thoughts on “Will the Last Puppy to Leave the Planet Please Shut Off the Sun? 5/14

  1. That’s official – I really need to find the dictionary, English Usage Guide and Logic textbook that VD is using when using words in his posts – maybe that will help see any logic in his explanations and conclusions…

    And great post from Eric Flint (the whole thing).

  2. “Everybody knows that Aristotelian two-value logic is fucked.” 
    –Philip K. Dick, VALIS

    Is it OK to swear here if it’s a quote from a book?

  3. Vox Day’s entire strategy is to claim all possible outcomes as his victory conditions. I expect he declares victory when he puts his socks on, too, just to keep his hand in. He is not so much painting targets around the bullet-holes as he is painting a gigantic bullseye over the entire side of the barn, and possibly most of the landscape.
    Cue VD claiming that this is more evidence that SJWs always lie, as he does not wear socks. Or, if he does, they are splendidly Aristotelian dialectical socks.

  4. With the Hugo coverage on File 770 going meta like this—half the links are to comments made on this blog—is it fair to say there’s a puppy chasing its tail here? ?

  5. I see that Vox Day has once again declared victory over his opponents from a safe distance.

    It seems that he doesn’t ever seem to fare particularly well in venues that aren’t ideologically already favorable to him.

  6. I love the A Erin story, but my little gamer heart has got to give the win to Rick Moen for the Zero Wing one

    With apologies to George Orwell, and to Peace, who I think had a VD version:

    “If you want a vision of the future, imagine a Puppy finishing below No Award – forever.”

  7. Aaron, he won all the Hugo nominations he cared to recommend. He could not have dominated a more unfriendly environment. Do you live to demonstrate that SJWS always lie?

  8. So, Eric Flint’s prose has decided me to try one of his books. Which do youse all recommend?

  9. I’m mystified by Thomas A. Mays’ comment: “I get how the anti-puppies feel about the recommendation slate perhaps skewing results, though I’m reserving judgment on whether or not it was bloc voting until after the ballots are revealed.”

    The ballot has already been revealed. It was totally overswept by the Puppies’ bloc-voting, and contains almost exclusively their choices. The results were definitely — not “perhaps” — skewed by a minority of the nominators.

    One wonders if Mr. Mays requires having his vehicle run completely out of gas before he is willing to believe the needle indicating “E” on his fuel gauge.

  10. I keep linking Thomas Mays with Sad Puppies due to his statement that Back when I had dim hopes that I might make the Sad Puppy slate (one side of the Hugo controversy), I might have had a slot, but it was not to be. and his publicly-announced Hugo nomination list which closely tracks that of the Sad Puppies.

    Now, I freely admit Mr. Thomas Mays is nowhere near as fervent a Puppy as others of this group, but there’s a clear relationship.

    In any event, although this Hugo voter thinks A Sword Into Darkness isn’t Hugo-worthy (unless we’re talking a retro-Hugo for the mid-1940s) I have to say it beats the pants off of Turncoat.

  11. Jayn @7:27 asks for Eric Flint book reccomendations:

    Personally, I found the Belisarius series more addictive than chocolate-covered crack, so I’d point to that. (The whole series is on some of the free Baen CDs that are floating around; first book is An Oblique Approach.)

    1632 and its descendants seems to be his more popular work, however.

  12. He could not have dominated a more unfriendly environment.

    If by “dominated” you mean “made himself look ridiculous by saying incredibly stupid things over and over again”, then sure.

  13. Oh and you may have noticed that Vox’s publishing house just landed a new title at #1 in two categories at Amazon. He has also sold 8 million+ copies of games and billboard charted multiple times. Whatever he may be, this isn’t a fellow who struggles with success.

    But if lies make you happy, then love the lies. Ending sadness was what got this whole thing rolling in the first place.

  14. Oh and you may have noticed that Vox’s publishing house just landed a new title at #1 in two categories at Amazon.

    You really don’t understand how meaningless that is, do you?

  15. Until recently we also took great pride in two gentlemen who were such perfect specimens that people used to come from miles around just to stare at them, so perhaps I should begin a description of my village with a couple of classics.

    When Pawnbroker Fang approached Ma the Puppy with the idea of joining forces he opened negotiations by presenting Ma’s wife with the picture of a small rocket drawn on a piece of cheap paper. Ma’s wife accept­ed the magnificent gift, and in return she extended her right hand and made a circle with the thumb and forefinger. At that point, the door crashed open and Ma the Puppy charged inside and screamed: “Woman, would you ruin me? Half of the slate would have been enough!”

  16. I strongly suspect that VD stopped commenting here because Theophilus “Elevator Farter” Pratt was so obviously better at everything VD was doing.

    VD knows when he is outclassed.

  17. Aaron, you are the one who lied about the environments in which he objectively succeeds. Are the Hugos likewise meaningless?

  18. I find Standlee’s analogy that WorldCons (yes, I know Kevin will object to that, but I’m pretty sure I was using it before he attended one) are like a Pot Roast absolutely marvelous, and about 98% accurate. (I’m a bit doubtful about “No, we will no longer serve beer or other alcohol in the ConSuite”, “If you serve alcohol at your Room Party you’re on your own when the Police arrive”, and “Smoking is not allowed in the Convention area”. I don’t _like_ any of those, but neither do I object strongly to any of them.

  19. xdpaul: “Are the Hugos likewise meaningless?”

    They are, this year, now that the Puppies have piddled all over them.

  20. Owlmirror on May 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm said:
    Until recently we also took great pride in two gentlemen who were such perfect specimens that people used to come from miles around just to stare at them, so perhaps I should begin a description of my village with a couple of classics.

    When Pawnbroker Fang approached Ma the Puppy with the idea of joining forces he opened negotiations by presenting Ma’s wife with the picture of a small rocket drawn on a piece of cheap paper. Ma’s wife accept­ed the magnificent gift, and in return she extended her right hand and made a circle with the thumb and forefinger. At that point, the door crashed open and Ma the Puppy charged inside and screamed: “Woman, would you ruin me? Half of the slate would have been enough!”

    Barry Hughart FTW!

  21. xdpaul: “Aaron, you are the one who lied about the environments in which he objectively succeeds. ”

    Where was something like that ever said?

  22. So, Eric Flint’s prose has decided me to try one of his books.

    It made me want to read a biography of his life. It sounds like he’s walked an interesting path.

    Unlike him I hope people continue to use SJW, it’s so ridiculously dumb it’s a great identifier for when to stop paying attention to a person’s rant. Like when someone starts ranting about lizard people.

    Suggested future title (if it hasn’t been already suggested): I Have No Hugo, and So I Must Bark.

  23. Very well. Why don’t you all leave us to our meaningless pursuits of unit sales, award domination, and popularity? There are plenty of places where you can go to pursue your niche interests free from the noise of our mass delusions of total victory.

  24. “new title at #1 in two categories at Amazon.You really don’t understand how meaningless that is, do you?”

    Yea its not like sales can be used as a metric since no one seems willing to buy up lots of double plus victim points titles such as. “If You Were a Dinosaur…” opps I mean

    “If you where a gay marriage advocate who was cruising GRINDR instead of cutting the speed of a train in half my love. The Hugo award winning story of a liberal train wreck of an ex boyfriend.”
    http://www.gaypatriot.net/2015/05/14/was-the-dude-who-wrecked-the-train-an-lgbt-activist/

  25. Sheesh, snowcrash. Do keep up.

    It seems that he doesn’t ever seem to fare particularly well in venues that aren’t ideologically already favorable to him

    Thus, Billboard, the Hugos, Amazon, and game sales certification are either all ideologically favorable to him…or Aaron has been caught in yet another lie.

    SJWs always lie.

  26. Hi, JJ. What I’m referring to are the individual nomination ballots from which the final Hugo ballot was taken. I may be guilty if a neophyte error, but it is my understanding those nomination ballots are not revealed until after the Hugos are awarded. I’d consider the charge of bloc voting valid if a winning number of them were straight slate. If they contained sufficient variability, though, that might indicate to me this was more of a “get out the vote” landslide by the SP organizers than what most would consider a unified and unfair bloc vote. You may consider that a distinction without a difference, but that’s what I meant.

    Chris, this may come down to a difference of opinion, but I’d never class myself as a gentleman on either side (I take issue with the side part, not the gentleman part). Yes, as I said, I would have welcomed a SP nod, especially back when it was just a recommendation. I think most authors would be and are happy when they make Locus’s list too. As a guy just trying to get his name out there (in a good way) I saw nothing wrong with a recommendation. I also participated in John Scalzi’s Award Pimpage post. Does that make me an anti-Puppy as well as a gentleman on the other side? As I put out in my own post on the matter which Mr. Glyer linked to previously, a lot of ideological labels have been glommed onto what, from initial face value, was just a recommendation slate. I am none of the things SPs are being accused of being. I don’t think many Puppies are.

    Perhaps you consider my desire for slate/recommendation selection, or my having no ideological issues with Brad or Larry’s stated goals as damning marks against me. If so, I cannot change the past. Nor would I be inclined to. But, I would hope that my sincerity in explaining my position would make you consider just keeping me on your shelf vice in the little box you’ve assigned me to.

    Either way, thank you again for the review and I hope you harbor no ill will. I have none for you and I look forward to meeting at a con one day.

  27. you are the one who lied about the environments in which he objectively succeeds.

    He failed miserably here.

    Amazon rankings are meaningless, something that has been explained to you over an over again, because they are easy to game, capture next to no useful information even when they are not gamed, and change so rapidly as to be useless.

    Its funny how desperate VD and his supporters sound, shrieking about his very modest accomplishments every time someone points out how very marginal a figure he truly is. He was a bit player in a band that placed two songs on one of the minor billboard charts more than two decades ago. How very impressive.

  28. Exactly Matt Y. I knew you earned honorary status as one of Day’s unwitting minions for a reason.

  29. Thomas A. Mays: “What I’m referring to are the individual nomination ballots from which the final Hugo ballot was taken… but it is my understanding those nomination ballots are not revealed until after the Hugos are awarded.”

    The only time the actual ballots have been revealed was in 1984. In other years, just the aggregate totals have been released. We will probably not get to see the actual ballots this year.

    I’m still mystified as to how you can say that you’re reserving judgment on whether or not it was bloc voting: the final ballot makes it quite clear that it is the result of bloc-voting for the Puppies slate.

  30. Thus, Billboard, the Hugos, Amazon, and game sales certification are either all ideologically favorable to him

    Hugos huh? You mean the Hugos where his story finished behind “No Award”? You mean those Hugos?

    When he and his preferred picks finish behind “No Award” this year, will that be succeeding as well?

  31. All right, I’m gonna have me a stab at some sentences:

    The sky above the port was the color of a Hugo, rusted beyond recognition.

    The night before he went to the Hugos, Richard Mayhew was not enjoying himself.

    It was Hugos night again. Sasquan lay in silence, and it was a silence of three parts.

    We created the Puppies. They evolved… They rebelled… There are few of them. BUT THEY HAVE A PLAN.

    Tarmac to road to hotel to auditorium to these first tumbling awards that rise from the stage. (this one might be obscure–it’s by a multiple nominee, written within past 20 years.)

    From the top of the large slush pile he sat on, Ensign B. Torgensen looked across the expanse of the cave toward Captain L. Correia and thought, ‘Well, this sucks.’

  32. xdpaul: “Why don’t you all leave us to our meaningless pursuits of unit sales, award domination, and popularity?”

    As far as “award domination”, are you referring to the “domination” of the ballot the Puppies achieved this year through gaming the nominations with bloc-voting slates? That’s not a reflection of quality writing, that’s a reflection of a small minority of unscrupulous nominators acting in bad faith.

    As far as your meaningless pursuits of unit sales and popularity — yes, why don’t we just leave you to that?

    Monster Hunter #1 International: 54,000 copies
    Monster Hunter #5 Nemesis: 6,100 copies
    Old Man’s War #1: 122,000 copies
    The Ghost Brigades #2: 100,000 copies
    Redshirts: 32,000 copies
    Lock In (hardcover): 10,100 copies
    * totals do not include e-books

  33. Thomas A. Mays: What is released after the Hugo ceremonies, as required by the WSFS constitution, is the nominating totals and the breakdown of the vote count. What isn’t required, or usually released, is the full anonymized ballots. There is no reason a Worldcon couldn’t release the anonymized ballots, and I sincerely hope that Sasquan does just that immediately after Hugo voting closes. That is the earliest that the data can be released without having an effect on the Hugo voting results for this year.

  34. Owlmirror at 7:47 pm:

    *applause*

    And BTW, thanks to the commenters posting their favourite/best/recommended top 10 SFF in the previous thread. I love being reminded of really good books, getting pointers to people’s favourites to check out at some point, & it’s fascinating to see how much/little overlap there is. Truly de gustibus non est disputandum in a really good way.

  35. @jayn.

    Flint’s bibliography is here.

    I enjoy both the Boundary series (aliens visited earth in the geological past, relics are across the solar system) and his Honor Harrington spin-offs (anti-slavery and counter-intelligence around the edges of the Honorverse).

  36. Yes, please tell me how John Scalzi’s plummeting unit sales are supposed to teach me a lesson. Incoherence ought to have its own award category.

  37. JJ, you need to infodump scalzi’s decline on Aaron. He is the one that says unit sales are meaningless.

  38. xdpaul:

    Yes, please tell me how you can describe Scalzi’s unit sales as “plummeting”, given that he keeps selling more books.

  39. Y’know, you folks area ton of fun. the repeated insistence that anyone who disagrees with you is evil, that suggesting a nomination slate is evil, that failing to kowtow to your petty prejudices is evil, it’s all a great laugh. You’ve had your grubby tentacles clutching the Hugos for decades, it was your own special in-group award that you traded around between your friends, and a part of the club you used to control authors who might step out of line. “You can’t say that, think that, do that. It will impact your career.” “Don’t you dare reveal yourself as a Conservative/Libertarian/Christian, it will impact your career. You’ll never sell another book.” Cater to the prejudices of a tiny group centered in the publishing houses of NY, or be destroyed.

    You may deny this, but is is the fact. I’ve seen it in my own (non-publishing) career. It happens all over the business world, and by all reports I’ve heard, it happens with especial ferocity in publishing. Every one of the ELoE has been told the same damn thing. They’ll tell you all about it if you listen to them. Hell, David Gerrold can’t help himself from using it as a threat every f’ing day.

    So along comes Larry, and he says to himself “I’ve got more hard-core fans than WorldCon has members. Maybe we can shake things up.”

    And boy howdy did he. And now the the incredibly whining butthurt, the paranoia, the sweet sweet tears of unfathomable suffering, they are nourishing to us, and delicious. I find it incredibly funny, well worth the cost of a supporting membership.

    So keep up the work, butthurt brigade! I look forward to the feast of your grief and impotent rage when your No Award gambit fails.

    BTW, if you don’t know any SJWs, if you can’t seem to identify any, it’s because you are one. And you know it. The “There are no SJWs” thing is a very very stupid play. Not worthy even of you. Except AE. He’s worthy of it.

  40. He is the one that says unit sales are meaningless.

    You have a hard time with reading comprehension, don’t you? It’s no wonder you have your lips pressed so firmly to VD’s ass.

  41. Aaron: “You [xdpaul] have a hard time with reading comprehension, don’t you?”

    It’s not just the reading comprehension problems, but the poor composition skills and the lack of logical reasoning skills; based on his posts, I’ve become convinced that he’s actually a 10-year-old whose parent neglected to install child-protection software on the family PC.

  42. This is the most important thing that needs to be clearly, plainly, and rightly explained about this post – That is a photo of a Battle Royal which took place at LA’s Olympic Arena in 1976, I think. There’s Andre the Giant (SF Connection: played Bigfoot in the Six Million Dollar Man), pressing Pat Patterson. I can’t be 100% certain. Ernie Ladd, NFL legend turned wrestler and close friend of Bush the Elder’s, is biting a guy up at the top. These were HUGE events, they’d do one every year, and 1976 was one of the better editions. It was won by the guy in the front, Johnny Rodtz, who was wrestling under some other name at the time. There’s a crappy 8mm film version of it on YouTube. Most important part of it – there awee 100% members of the Garcia family in the arena that night!
    Chris

Comments are closed.