The Dogs My Destination 5/18

aka Recent studies have shown that approximately 40% of authors are sad puppies. The rest of us just drink.

Today’s roundup delivers alisfranklin, John C. Wright, Alexandra Erin, Kevin J. Maroney, Betsy Wollheim, Dave Freer, Lela E. Buis, David French, thezman, Eric Flint, Joe Sherry, Scott Seldon, Lis Carey, Lisa J. Goldstein, Larry Correia, Jeff Duntemann, and Declan Finn. (Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editors of the day Tuomas Vainio and Laura Resnick.)

alisfranklin on Unassigned Readings

“As for gaming the Hugo Awards it is surprisingly…” – May 18

You want to talk about slates of nominees and culture wars and take-overs? Fine, let’s talk about that. Because you know what I want to see for the 2016 Hugo awards?

I want to see Welcome to Night Vale up for awards in Best Novel and Best Dramatic Presentation. I want to see Stephen Universe and Agent Carter and whatever anime is big right now. I want to see Homestuck. I want to see something from the OTW and I want at least one videogame up for Long Form and one DLC/expansion up in Short Form. I want to see fanfic writers and fanartists up for their categories. I want to see someone get nominated purely on force of their Tumblr.

Whether or not I like the individual nominations doesn’t matter. I just want to see them, because seeing them will tell me the Hugos are relevant again. That they mean something to kids who were born after the invention of the personal computer, let alone born this century. You want to talk about logrolling an awards ceremony? Tumblr fandom is orders of magnitude bigger than the voting pool for the current Hugos. If y’all want those awards, they’re yours. No old greybeard muttering about “true fans” and “golden age SFF” can take that away from you. Literally not; by numbers alone there just aren’t enough of them.

 

John C. Wright

“WSJ on SJW” – May 18

A lamebrain and lazy Wall Street Journal article: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-culture-wars-invade-science-fiction-1431707195

For any reader without the patience (or the nose-clothespin)  to wade through this, the summary is: “We asked two white guys with lots of awards and they said the system was fine and the Sad Puppies are pulp-writing carpetbagging  racists.”

First, the issue is not about literary fiction versus pulp adventure fiction. The Social Justice Warriors do not write literary fiction, they write boring lectures and finger-wagging trash. They are members of a clique who have controlled the awards for about a decade.

They excuse the poor craftsmanship of their meandering tales by claiming them to be written to erudite and aethereal literary standards beyond the grasp of the hoi polloi. (Or they would say, if they were literary enough to use phrases like the hoi polloi  (a Greek remark!), or drop Gilbert and Sullivan  allusions casually into their sentences.)

For the record, I write literary fiction, and Larry Correia writes pulp, and he and I are on the same team.

 

Alexandra Erin on Blue Author Is About To Write

“Situation Normal: All Fisked Up” – May 18

So Brad Torgersen, leader of the Sad Puppy campaign for this year, has a post up on his blog called “Fisking The Broken Narrative”. Fisking, for the uninitiated, is an art from in which one takes a written work, quotes the whole or majority of it in-line, broken up with zingers a la Mystery Science Theater. At least, that’s my understanding of the typical fisking. The Sad Puppies seem more inclined to just rant and rave in the interstices, and Torgersen in particular spends more time reacting to what it would have been convenient for his narrative for the source editorial to have said than he does responding to the actual text…..

Mr. Maroney, the individual whom Torgersen was attempting to fisk, did in his source attempt to gently clue the Puppies in to the inadvisability of labeling their opponents “reactionary” while holding a stated goal of “stop people from trying to change things and bring it back to the way it used to be”, but all Torgersen appeared to take away from it was “STOP SAYING MEAN THINGS”. We could speculate about whether this was due to an inability to comprehend the point or a tactical decision to only respond in ways that further the Puppy’s narrative, but I don’t see the percentage in it.

 

Kevin J. Maroney in New York Review of SF

“The Puppies of Terror” – May 17

The Sad Puppies are a group of writers and other fans dissatisfied with what they saw as a trend in the Hugo process toward overrepresentation of “liberal” works at the expense of traditional, meat-and-potatoes science fiction and fantasy. So in 2014 they gamed the Hugo nomination system to place nominees in several Hugo Award categories. What the Puppies did was very simple: They encouraged people to buy Worldcon supporting memberships and vote for the Puppy slate of nominees, and they got one or two nominees into several categories. These “Sad Puppy 2” nominees failed to land any trophies; in fact, with the exception of Toni Weisskopf in the Best Editor, Long Form, the SP2 finalists came in last in every category. And, like any well-intentioned, thoughtful group of principled actors, the Sad Puppies responded by encouraging the attention of a group of woman-hating terrorists.

 

Kevin J. Maroney in New York Review of SF

“The Puppy Fight” – May 18

The entire Puppy movement, rhetorically, is based on the idea that the science fiction enterprise has changed tremendously and not for the better, since the fabled Golden Age when all of the Puppies were young. The head Sad Puppy himself, Brad Torgersen, has taken to referring to his enemies as CHORFS, “Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics.” So, yes, the person who is bravely positioning himself as the force that will stop the people who want to change things believes that his opponents are “reactionaries.” This is, apparently, someone whose understanding of words is limited to “what sounds like an insult?”

 

Lela E. Buis

“Is there too much diversity in SF&F?” – May 18

So, is there really too much diversity on the ballot? This might not be a popular observation, but I can personally see a clear political agenda, at least in the US and Northern Europe, to increase acceptance of diversity. Everyone must have noticed this. Diversity is billed as a good thing, something we should respect that can bring in new ideas and new ways of doing things. It also implies acceptance of differences like gender, LGBTQ status, religion, disability, race, national origin, etc., etc., etc. But, the truth is that diversity makes us all nervous. Political scientist Robert Putnam, researching community trends in 2000, made the inconvenient discovery that greater diversity in a community leads to less trust, less volunteering, less cooperation, less voting and less civic engagement in general for average members of the community. As a liberal, Putnam was so disturbed by this finding that he waited until 2007 to publish the results, i.e. that diversity damages communities.

 

Betsy Wollheim on Facebook – May 16

I’ve been silent about the whole disgusting Hugo mess, but frankly I’m shocked by some of the mainstream coverage it’s been getting. For the record, many people on the “puppy ballot” were never asked permission, like my business partner, Sheila Gilbert, who has no affiliation with any puppies, but will not withdraw because (in my opinion and that of her authors) she damn well deserves a Hugo after 45 years dedicated to editing Science Fiction and Fantasy. Personally I think the puppies are fucked. There has always been a “Wellsian and Vernian” split in the field, but this takeover of the award is just abominable! Not only New Republic has spoken out against them, but now, the Wall Street Journal.

 

Betsy Wollheim on Facebook – May 16

I am personally grateful to George R. R. Martin for bravely supporting the rational and historical side of the Hugo brouhaha. As someone who has been attending conventions since age six (1958) I can say there have always been political divisions in our field, but prior to the internet neither political side has had the power (nor inclination!) to game the field’s most prestigious award. If you look at the novels that have won the Hugos over the decades. You will see that as many are great adventure yarns as books with political messages. It’s really pretty even. But this current fiasco is just plain disgusting. Also, as an editor, it makes me angry to see a writer as important as GRRM having to spend his valuable time informing ignorant people about the history of worldcon and the history of the Hugos.

 

Dave Freer at Mad Genius Club

“Who we write (and publish) For.” – May 18

It’s been very revealing during the various bursts of rage at the Sad Puppies by traditionally published authors and their publishers. We’re getting to see that dislike, that disdain, that ‘second (or possibly far lower) class citizen, should not be allowed to vote, aren’t ‘Real Fans’, should be put in a dog-pound (we’re not human, and there is no need to treat us as such, apparently. Now I do understand that as far as this monkey is concerned, but most of the pups, their supporters and friends are as human as their detractors.) You get editors like Betsy Wolheim at DAW telling us filthy hoi polloi “as an editor, it makes me angry to see a writer as important as GRRM having to spend his valuable time informing ignorant people about the history of worldcon and the history of the Hugos.” Thanks Betsy. A good spin attempt to blame us for GRRM’s decisions. He’s adult, he can decide what he wants to do. We pig-ignorant revolting peasants can’t actually MAKE him do anything. He wasn’t going to write any more if Bush was re-elected IIRC. The tide of BS from this has overflowed my gum boots.

 

David French at National Review

“Sci-Fi’s Sad Puppies” – May 18

A literary revolt against political correctness It turns out that pop culture doesn’t inexorably drift toward political correctness. The forces of “social justice” are not invincible, and conservative artists do have cultural power. Just ask the very angry, very frustrated members of the science-fiction Left.Conservatives are by now familiar with the depressing pop-culture script. Angry at perceived injustice or exclusion and eager to spread their particular brand of “social justice,” the Left targets for transformation an artistic medium that was previously not overtly or intentionally politicized. Within a few short years, the quality of art — or its popularity — becomes far less relevant than either its message or the identity of the artist. As part of this process, prestigious awards are no longer a means of rewarding the best work but rather a means of rewarding the best work from the list of acceptable choices. [The remainder of the article is behind a paywall, cost 25 cents.]

 

thezman

“Sad, Rabid Puppies on the Front Lash” – May 18

The only area of fiction with a male audience is sci-fi/fantasy. So-called serious fiction was taken over lunatics and feminists to the point where it has no audience outside of the academy. The fiction that sells best is the rape fantasy stuff popular with middle-aged white women. Otherwise, fiction for men is mostly aimed at harmless weirdos who prefer to be the female character in on-line games.

That’s why the lunatics are making war on sci-fi and fantasy fiction. They sense this group of white males are weak and can be bullied. After all, a guy who gets beat up for wearing his Frodo costume to school is not going to push back against the heavy weights of the genre. At least that’s the assumption. It’s why the cult has made a fetish of bullying, by the way. They want it as their exclusive tool for socializing children.

 

Eric Flint

“WHAT THE HELL, LET’S DO IT AGAIN – STILL MORE ON THE HUGO AWARDS” – May 18

James May, who keeps posting here, is the gift that never stops giving. In one of his most recent posts, he insists once again that the SJW (social justice warrior) hordes are a menace to science fiction. So, in this essay, I will go through his points one at a time to show how ridiculous they are whether examined in part or (especially) as a whole…..

In one of my former lives I was a TA in the history department at UCLA. In that capacity, I read and graded a lot of essays written by students in which they attempted, with greater or lesser success, to advance an historical proposition.

So far, James May’s essay advancing the proposition that science fiction as a genre—or at least its most prestigious awards—have been overwhelmed by a radical lesbian-centric racialized feminist crusade is getting an F. He’s made no attempt to substantiate a single one of his claims. Literally, not one.

 

Charmingly Euphemistic

“Received my Hugo voters’ reading packet today” – May 18

Slates are extremely powerful.  In normal voting everyone reads different stuff and has different tastes, so no one work will receive more than maybe 10% of the nominating votes.  But slate voters agree to vote on the same five nominees for each category. This means a slate needs to come up with about 10% of the nominating votes to sweep every category. The 90% of individual voters are swamped and overwhelmed by the 10% of slate voters.  Lest you think I am exaggerating, over two thirds of the slots on this year’s Hugo ballot are on the Sad Puppy Slate or the Rabid Puppy Slate, or both.

I am really afraid that if these slates see any success at all, it will be slates all the way down from now on. Therefore, in order to whatever I can to discourage slates in future years, I plan to  only vote for non-slate works above “no award.”

While the extreme sexist and racist attitudes of some of the slate organizers sickens me, it is the damage to the Hugo awards that will be done by slates that motivated me to get involved this year.  I don’t want slates of progressive writers either.

 

Joe Sherry on Adventures in Reading

“Hugo Nominee / Voter’s Packet Available” – May 18

You can find Zombie Nation online, but there’s no way to tell what is included in the nominated collection. I’ve been boldly reading the comic from the start, powering through, but I’m only up to 2013 strips, so it’s taking a while. But, you can look at any 2014 work from Zombie Nation and use that to evaluate Carter Reid for Fan Artist if you don’t want to wait for Zombie Nation to hit the voter’s packet (or attempt to read five years of strips).

 

Scott Seldon on Seldon’s SF Blog

“Ann Leckie – What A Hugo Award Winner Should Look Like” – May 18

I quickly followed reading Ancillary Justice with the sequel, Ancillary Sword. It was as good and as engrossing, bringing with it new aspects of the universe and the characters. If a sequel ever deserved as many awards as the original, this one certainly does. It is a magnificent world given to us by a magnificent writer. I can’t way for the third book. I definitely have a new author to add to my list of favorites. I can’t wait to see what she does next. Her nomination for this year’s Hugo Awards is justly deserved.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“One Bright Star to Guide Them, by John C. Wright” – May 18

This wants so badly to be an allegorical fable in the manner of C.S. Lewis’s Narnia. And it fails so, so badly.

 

Lisa J. Goldstein on theinferior4

“The Hugo Ballot, Part 11: Novellas” – May 18

I love the idea behind “The Plural of Helen of Troy,” by John C. Wright.  There’s a City Beyond Time, Metachronopolis, with shining towers and bridges and gardens.  Fog caused by too many time changes shrouds the lower towers, and in the upper stories live the Masters, who control the forces of time. Unfortunately there’s something of a fog on the story as well.

 

Larry Correia on Monster Hunter Nation

“Sad Puppies 3: The Ensaddening” – January 26

It is that time of year again. If you’d like to nominate good books, stories, and related works for the Hugos so that the biggest award in sci-fi/fantasy isn’t just a Social Justice Warrior circle jerk, you need to get yourself a supporting membership to Sasquan before the end of January.

color-sp-1 LARGE

Declan Finn on A Pius Man

“Sad Puppies Bite Back, V: a Puppy Wins the Hugo” – May 18

[DF adjusts speakers.  SWAT team Irish step dances down the street, never to be seen again.  DF sighs, moves to mailbox, muttering] I wonder if John C. Wright will loan me some of his Vatican Ninjas. It’s not like he gets SWATted like this. He’s a living brain in a jar, what are they going to slap the handcuffs on?

 

 

506 thoughts on “The Dogs My Destination 5/18

  1. “Which is were the SP come in. LC was correct in his estimation that if a conservative tried to win, using tactics others already use, people would oppose it because they are conservative. BT made the point that we should be about good works, regardless of where one comes from culturally. The initial reaction was to label them everything but decent human beings. When that failed, it was to attack them about their “associations”. When that was ignored, it was the “slate” violated some secret agreement amongst fandom. Everything but simply judging the work on the merits.”

    is that a *narrative* or what?

  2. LC was correct in his estimation that if a conservative tried to win, using tactics others already use, people would oppose it because they are conservative.

    That might be a good idea. Maybe he should try it, since he hasn’t yet. Instead he’s lied a lot.

  3. ” LC was correct in his estimation that if a conservative tried to win, using tactics others already use, people would oppose it because they are conservative.”

    Except, that’s not what Larry and Brad did. SP 1 & 2 where pretty standard log rolling. There was moaning and complaining, but there has been moaning and complaining about log rolling for years. It had nothing to do with their politics. It’s a pattern really. Someone log rolls a book because they like the work, because they like the author, because they want to achieve an agenda. Some fans complain, most fans shrug their shoulders and we trudge onward. One or two things, even a couple of things in each category, getting politicked onto the ballot has minimal effect at the end of the day. The IRV used for the final ballot is good at minimizing the effect of voting blocs.

    The slate is a new tactic. The complaint about the slate is not that it lets a small percent of the nominators get something on the ballot. The complaint is that the slate allows a small number of nominators to DOMINATE the ballot. That may not have been the SP intent, but that what the outcome is. Slate tactics are so effective, that a better organized slate defeated the Sad Puppies this year. The Rabid Puppy slate won. More RP only candidates appeared on the final ballot then SP candidates. In every category where RP candidates faced SP candidates the RP candidates won out. If that doesn’t demonstrate the power, and danger, of slates then I don’t know what does.

  4. Will Steve Moss take the Mamatas Challenge?

    Seconded.

    In 2013 a straight white man (John Scalzi) beat two women and one man of color to win the Hugo for Best Novel (Redshirts), and a straight white Mormon man who opposes same-sex marriage (Brandon Sanderson) beat three women, one of whom was a woman of color, to win the Hugo for Best Novella (“The Emperor’s Soul”); this same Mormon is also one of the co-hosts of the podcast to win the Hugo for Best Related Work (Writing Excuses).

    So, yes, do explain to us how left-wing identity politics has been corrupting the Hugos “over the last several years”. With actual names and titles, not just hand-waving.

  5. Steve Moss:

    It is not that any one cares about what Beale is counting on. He can count beans for all what I care.

  6. LC and BT are good guys, trying to make a point, open up some eyes before things devolve further

    Pull the other one it has bells on.

  7. @Jim Henley: There’s a very definite disconnect between the Puppies rhetoric (well, their words–as we all know, Ted Beale has a monopoly on “rhetoric”) and their actions, isn’t there? I still remember Brad Torgesen explaining that he was just doing this to give everyone _more_ options, “like adding steam trays to a buffet”. Without mentioning that he was kicking all the other steam trays to the floor, stomping on them, and then force-feeding everyone until they gagged. (Oh, and he also didn’t mention that what was in the steam trays he was adding was…well, let’s just say it wasn’t palatable to most and leave it at that.)

  8. Jim Henley: recent studies of gender-bias based perceptions would seem to suggest that Male Puppies would ‘think’ that message/literary fiction was winning too much of the time even if message/literary fiction was only capturing 1/3rd of the wins on average.

  9. “BT made the point that we should be about good works, regardless of where one comes from culturally.”

    … as long as those works are by Torgersen’s friends, people he works with or people who share his politics.

  10. Except, that’s not what Larry and Brad did. SP 1 & 2 where pretty standard log rolling.

    And as I recall, most of the complaints weren’t that they had suggested people vote for books and stories, but rather that they had suggested that people vote for their books and stories with the express purpose of pissing other people off (more specifically “to make SJW heads explode”), rather than because they were great books and stories.

    Thus far, every Puppy promoted work I have read has been decidedly substandard. That’s what pisses me off.

  11. Has anyone mentioned that 1632 is free on Amazon right now? Because that seems worth mentioning.

  12. Going to Maine: No, and thank you! Don’t think I’ve read Flint previously, but I have been impressed with his blog writing, so I grabbed this up.

  13. Ok, this must be a joke. One of the nominees for best fan writer thinks we should vote for her because of a discussion on what shirt you may wear. What the heck has that to do with SFF?

    No award. Obviously.

  14. Flint has 3 or 4 books for free in Kindle format. I think it’s part of the “first hit is free” marketing strategy 🙂

  15. After reading the fan writer examples, I can only conclude that some of the “writers” new that they were going to loose and loose big at that. So they did a bitter posting about the evil evil very very evil “SJWs” that are so very evil.

    Only one of the puppy writers there seemed to be interested in SFF more than this weird cultural war. So only one of them above No Award.

  16. Hampus: I am voting for Laura Mixon for her excellent work in the Requires Hate incident. BTW that was the case of some who would be lumped in with SJW’s calling out and effectively ending (at least this iteration of) the reprehensible behavior of someone who had staked out a position roughly equivalent to that of VD on the opposite extreme. Laura Mixon did a very lengthy post laying out what had become a very confusing series of events between the varied personas and statements of a bad actor in fandom, and the back and forth accusations between others who had been involved in some way.

    I voted for her because 1) that took a lot of time and effort, and was highly demanding work emotionally as well; 2) she took a risk in trying to create a definitive narrative and understanding of what had gone on in a very controversial series of events; and 3) did it well. I hadn’t been familiar with the whole controversy prior to the discussion of it vis-à-vis the Puppy stuff (as in, see, the SJWs have crazed haters on their side too! accusations, which made me start the Google machine). I had read most of the major blog entries and narratives about the event, thought Mixon’s was great work, and was pleasantly surprised to find it on the ballot. None of the other stuff was even close.

  17. For all swedes there, 1632 is kind of fun because of the big role for Gustav II Adolf. He seems much nicer in Flints books than what I learned in school, but it is still kind of fun.

    Not my type of book otherwise, but will buy the first ones for my father who I think will like them.

  18. cmm: “None of the other stuff was even close.”

    Absolutely. No other entry has done even a fraction of what that report did to make fandom a safer place for non-serial abusers.

    I just wish some more appreciation for Rochita Loenen-Ruiz and Tade Williams’ work in providing safe outlets and offering truly positive words came with that package.

  19. I tried to read some of the fan fiction entries …. sheesh

    I had read Laura Mixon’s before … but Dave Freer? I mean I kind of liked the guy. He’s associated with Eric Flint (my new favorite author) … he sorta has the piratey disposition … but my god could he whine any more. Nope. Not voting for him.

    Jeffro Johnson. Book reviews? I mean they are decent reviews and I read them with interest … but still Hugo-worthy?? Nope.

    Cedar Sanderson. Hmmm … well I got as far as the “Conformation Bias” essay .. which I thought might be a play on the idea of *confirmation bias* … but nope it’s just a misspelled word in the title. Nope. Not Hugo-worthy. (I read it twice just to make sure I wasn’t missing something … but I’m pretty sure I’m not … if I am, please feel free to derisively point and make snarky comments)

    and Amanda Green. Well, I’m exactly sure what she was on about … Uncle Timmy and Vulcan/Klingon affairs … and of course evilllll SJW’s and GHH’s. bleh. Nope.

    so it looks like it goes to Laura Mixon or Jeffro Johnson. Maybe a coin flip.

  20. “and Amanda Green. Well, I’m exactly sure what she was on about … Uncle Timmy and Vulcan/Klingon affairs … and of course evilllll SJW’s and GHH’s. bleh. Nope.”

    should read … *not* exactly sure …

    what I get for not proofing

  21. and finally …that’s not the Fan *Fiction* category but rather Fan *Writer* … I plead last few days of school syndrome

  22. “The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”

    Wright might be a better writer than I suspected based on his fiction. That parody of a dImwitted anti-suffragist letter to the editor from 1910 is DEAD ON.

  23. MIke that is a difference between a known and convicted criminal, a conservative, or a plain asshole. Yes at a convention with teenagers and children you should have been shouting at the roof tops that he was there. And the cover up and side stepping of the pedophilia issue is why we can’t understand why your side is mad at Vox day. Yall just gave an award to Delaney and he sides with NAMBLA and grooming children.

  24. rcade: “BT made the point that we should be about good works, regardless of where one comes from culturally.”

    … as long as those works are by Torgersen’s friends, people he works with or people who share his politics.

    They’re spinning and failing so hard that they’ve turned into… (wait for it)…

    Centrifugal Bumble-Puppies.

  25. Indeed, if we are going to try to deal harshly with these constructions, I propose starting with ones that originate in English and sound equally dumb, starting with ATM machine and hot water heater.

    Or the one we had where I worked: ID drawing. (‘ID’ is short for ‘intersection drawing’ – but it’s become the shorthand for the subject of the drawing. So…’ID drawing’ exists.)

  26. Blume: Some of us have to behave like adults in a real world. We don’t get to be a Minority Report-style posse mobbing someone in a dealers room for what he is capable of doing in the future. Is that something your “side” is currently doing? I didn’t think so.

  27. The Trustee Savings Bank here in the UK was known by it’s initials TSB. At some point during it’s changes in ownership it became The TSB Bank PLC. It’s registered name. Grr.

  28. Neil: Ah, here in Chicago Harris Bank got bought by the Bank of Montreal, commonly known as BMO.

    Now they’re BMO Harris Bank.

  29. In reply to Steve Moss: I’m posting short reviews of each story as I read it on my DreamWidth. I’m only three (short) stories in, but I’m hoping that the standard of writing in the stories the Puppies have recommended increases soon. I want to enjoy what I’m reading not slog through it like a homework assignment.

    I don’t enquire too closely (or, generally, at all) into the politics of writers, and wouldn’t have done so unless and until the Puppies made it an issue.

  30. Wow.

    So some conservatives are actually using the horrifying criminal examples of Marion Zimmer Bradley and Walter Breen as justifications for why the Puppies should be given a pass on atrocious behavior?

    Wow.

  31. Kurt Busiek on May 19, 2015 at 11:12 am said:

    Torpenhow Hill!

    Ah, that’s one of my favorite examples too: “Hill Hill Hill Hill” in the successive languages of the peoples who moved in and took over.

  32. @ McJulie: “Wright might be a better writer than I suspected based on his fiction. That parody of a dImwitted anti-suffragist letter to the editor from 1910 is DEAD ON.”

    I often find that Wright, Beale, and their littermates confusingly seem like they might just be engaging in a failed attempt at parody.

  33. McJulie on May 19, 2015 at 11:42 am said:

    “The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”

    Wright might be a better writer than I suspected based on his fiction. That parody of a dImwitted anti-suffragist letter to the editor from 1910 is DEAD ON.

    Oh, snap, madame.

  34. WRT “the merits”—I finally got to read “A Single Samurai” last night. It’s a first-person narrative, told in the past tense, in which the narrator dies at the end.

    That pretty much says it all, as far as merit is concerned.

  35. VD’s been beating the Kramer/Breen/MZB drum for a while now. He talks about how excluding anyone is an affront to the freedom of association, while criticizing SFWA and fandom for harboring pedophiles.

  36. @ Peace Is My Middle Name — Yes. Apparently everyone in sf/f must EITHER side with Vox Day or by DEFAULT side with a convicted child molester and his accomplice.

    The possibility that you or I might find both Vox Day -and- child molesters utterly repellant and feel free not to side with -either- of them… doesn’t seem to have occurred to some people.

  37. “And the cover up and side stepping of the pedophilia issue is why we can’t understand why your side is mad at Vox day. Yall just gave an award to Delaney and he sides with NAMBLA and grooming children.”

    Leaving *aside* the misrepresentation of Chip Delany here, I’ll try and explain it simply:

    If Vox Day (or, indeed, any of the Puppies) had a fragment of the talent Chip Delany has, they would also be winning awards, without having to make a mess of the commmunity in the process.

    Vox Day has also gone on the record as dismissing and looking down on the very community he wants to take the prizes from — and has declared himself a culture warrior against large numbers of people.

    *That* is why people object to Mr. Day — well, in addition to the fact that as a writer and editor he’s a hack whose sole talent is dissembling *just* *enough* to preserve a fig-leaf of deniability for those who want to defend him — because he’s declared war upon them, insulted, dismissed, and denigrated them, etc., etc., and so forth.

    SF has accepted people for years with far wackier beliefs than, say, Mr. Beale — after all, there have been Scientologists in SF since before Scientology existed — but while they might have treated SF (and the fannish community in particular) as a recruiting ground, they did not make it a battleground in their war. Had they tried, say, to drive all the “psychs” out of SF, they would have been, I suspect, treated much the same.

  38. Laura Resnick:”The possibility that you or I might find both Vox Day -and- child molesters utterly repellant and feel free not to side with -either- of them… doesn’t seem to have occurred to some people.”

    Hear hear. I’m long past tired of these false dilemmas. “Neither” remains an option when dealing with terrible people coming from different directions.

  39. McJulie: Love it!

    Nick Mamatas: Spoilers! As for Delany, I think the poster is referring to the SFWA naming him a Grand Master in 2014. Which 1) has nothing to do with the Hugos, and 2) is not undeserved.

    Also, if no one has named a band Centrifugal Bumblepuppy yet, they really should.

  40. “The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”

    Which is a shame, because women’s Aura of Sanctity provides +2 to all savings throws and +1 to hit, and can turn undead three times a day as per a cleric of the same level.

  41. Laura Resnick: Because there are only two sides, and if you aren’t on one you are on the other. For people who embrace SF and all its attendant weirdness, they are awfully binary.

  42. This is a good place to ask this, given the depth of knowledge y’all have of the field. One of the first issues of Analog I ever read had a really memorable story. I think the main human character was female, and she was on this weird planet, double planet maybe? And the aliens there were big blogs in the water and they communicated by sort of “thinking” concepts at the human character. I remember the dialog from the aliens tended to be strings of words like *blue*light*song* with some kind of symbol between them like an asterisk or an other unusual punctuation mark. Does that sound familiar to anyone? I’ve always wanted to go back and read it as an adult. I found the story hard to follow but fascinating at the time.

  43. cmm: That sounds a bit like Robert L. Forward’s Rocheworld, a version of which was published in Analog in 1982.

  44. John Seavey on May 19, 2015 at 12:37 pm said:
    “The difference is that a woman who loses her native delicacy and modesty does not become an object of fear and respect, but an object of contempt and loathing, because the aura of sanctity women naturally inspire in men is tossed away.”

    Which is a shame, because women’s Aura of Sanctity provides +2 to all savings throws and +1 to hit, and can turn undead three times a day as per a cleric of the same level.

    YOMANK.

  45. “Leaving *aside* the misrepresentation of Chip Delany …”

    I don’t see any misrepresentation. Read this interview with Delany by Will Shetterly from last year:

    http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-conversation-with-samuel-r-delany.html

    Even when interviewed sympathetically by a pro who is a fan of his work, Delany expresses viewpoints on NAMBLA and adults having sex with children that are utterly repulsive.

    Delany acknowledges that he received the NAMBLA newsletter for years, calls the age of 18 a “purely arbitrary divide” and writes, “Many, many children — and I was one of them — are desperate to establish some sort of sexual relation with an older and even adult figure.”

    Calling him someone who sides with NAMBLA is accurate. Anyone who is appalled about Walter Breen, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Edward E. Kramer should be disgusted that Delany can espouse the views he does and remain in such high esteem in the field that he was named an SFWA Grand Master in 2013.

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