Pug Jack Barron 5/31

2007_1aka ”He’s not the Messiah. He’s a very naughty puppy!”

Today’s roundup brings you Amanda S. Green, Rachel Iliffe, Sarah A. Hoyt, Vox Day, Lou Antonelli, Camestros Felapton, Jeet Heer, Joseph Tomaras, Lis Carey, Lisa J. Goldstein, Rebekah Golden, and cryptic others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Whym and Hampus Eckerman.)

Amanda S. Green

“The gloves came off” – May 31

Over the last couple of days, I’ve been fighting the urge to respond to a post in a private Facebook group that is supposedly dedicated to the appreciation of the writings of Robert A. Heinlein. I say supposedly because it had become more and more apparent that wasn’t necessarily the case. But the crowning point came when one of the members posted a link to a story about why Connie Willis would not be presenting at the Hugo Awards. I’m not going to get into Ms. Willis’ reasons other than to say I don’t agree with them. But it was her decision and she will have to live with the consequences — good, bad or indifferent.

However, what got to me was the poster of the link starting out by saying that she was a so far unpublished science fiction writer who is just so angry at the “talentless and angry malcontents” who have supposedly ruined the Hugos. Okay, nothing new there. Still, it was a bit surprising to find such a position being advocated in a Heinlein forum, especially when it became clear that the whole issue was that there have been more men nominated for a Hugo and that more men have won than women. Again, nothing new….


Rachel Iliffe on Rachelloon Productions

“#HugoAwards Follow Up: Dextrous and Sinister” – May 31


  1. 2500 people are not representative of the entire SF fandom.

This is the number I’ve been hearing anyway, from various people–the estimate of who, in recent years, was actually submitting and voting on the books in question. And from what I can make out, these people are also mostly made up of the fan clubs of a certain select group of authors; suggesting they are perhaps not particularly diverse in their opinions.

Again, it’s not that anything untoward happened to lead to that–no one was stopping other people from getting involved, the whole event just seemed to have become more obscure in recent times, but the lack of mass involvement in recent years has been telling. Perhaps the event just hasn’t been publicised properly, I mean–it’s supposed to be like the Emmys for SF, right?

How was this ever going to change, but by some ‘radical’ action? I’m not saying it had to happen the way it did–I would have preferred it hadn’t since so many authors have felt the need to disassociate themselves–but for new life to be breathed into the Hugos, someone had to put them in the spotlight again. And I do think they needed new life.


Sarah A. Hoyt on According To Hoyt

“Truth and Fiction” – May 31

Which brings us to the other “Big Lie” that we just want “pulp” or “adventure” or “old fashioned” stories.

This incredible nonsense doesn’t pass the smell test. None of us has said that. What’s more, as far as I can tell, none of us believes that. I have in the past advised fledglings not to try to write in the style of long-gone-by writers (except the occasional send up. I’ve been known to do Bradbury pastiche.)  Writing styles and tastes have changed.  No one wants to work that hard for their fiction.

Much as I love say Jane Austen, I’m aware styles of prose have changed completely since her day. You see, we are a lot more visual. Also omniscient narrator doesn’t seem to do as well as it once did, because competing with visual media forces writing to employ its one advantage: putting you in a character’s head for a while.

Also, frankly, with some exceptions, I have great trouble reading science fiction published before the sixties or so, because I’m sensitive to language shifts and also because some of the assumptions are risible. (You know the exceptions, Simak, Heinlein and half a dozen others.)

Yes, I just did a post exhorting us to recreate the Golden Age, which I note File 770 immediately echoed, even though it had clear nothing to do with the Hugos. They picked it up because they thought it supported their narrative. One despairs of trying to talk to whole-word-readers.

That post of course exhorted writers to write for their fans not the publishing establishment. And it exhorted the fans to support their writers. It also exhorted writers to be a little more daring with their science (because that’s why science fiction is getting its lunch eaten by fantasy.) In my opinion that’s what Golden Age IS. It was not about writing pulpy. Not that I expect anyone there would get it.


Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Sad Puppies can’t be wrong” – May 31

Let’s just say their behavior shocked me about as much as the discovery that the sun rose again this morning. There are precisely four things that have surprised me about the SJW response to date:

  1. John Scalzi more or less keeping his mouth shut. Now we know why.
  2. Charles Stross attempting to doxx Castalia and his insane Finnish Nazi theories. I genuinely thought he was smarter than that.
  3. The public approval of Mary Kowal openly buying supporting memberships for other people. It’s so hard to imagine anyone else making effective use of that tactic in the future.
  4. Popular Science being one of the publications in which they planted their hit stories. I knew from past experience they would plant hit pieces in the media. But that would not have been among the first 250 publications I would have guessed.



Lou Antonelli on This Way To Texas

“Still an honor” – May 31

Those of us who feel the Hugo award is an honor well worth pursuing, such a myself, probably feel some resentment – as I do – towards those Sad Puppy “fellow travelers” who have made statements indicating they want to burn down or destroy the awards.

Folks, if you don’t like the award, then why allow yourself to be nominated in the first place? I mean, we can all differ on the meaning, usefulness or value of an award, but if you don’t even believe in it – why bother? It’s a free country, which means we all have the right of free association. Nobody forced you to participate in the Hugo process.

At the very least, bear in mind – in light of the hostility that the Puppy effort has engendered – how your comments hurt those of use who would be proud and pleased to win one of the awards. Heck, I’m still proud to have been nominated, regardless how it turned out.

The “let it burn” folks on the Puppy side are, to my mind, the corresponding opposite of the “No Award everything!’ side on the anti side. I suspect the vast majority of people who care about the subject are in the vary large middle territory.


Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“367” – May 31

There are exactly 367 Vile Faceless Minions, as it happens, in addition to an unknown quantity of Rabid Puppies, Dread Ilk, and Ilk. As to what their staying power is, and if they are really going to stay interested enough to do this again next year, I have ordered Malwyn and her colleagues to unmuzzle them and thereby permit them to speak for themselves, if they so wish.


Camestros Felapton

“On petunias and whales: part 8” – May 31

Puppy slate adds data

The 2015 Puppy slates did not claim to be only nominating conservatives but it is reasonable to assume that if either of the puppy slates was intended to cove works that would otherwise not get nominated then the proportion of conservative writers should be higher. Notably the final nominations had a much smaller set of authors than might be expected. John C Wright was nominated fives times (it would have been 6 but one work was disqualified on a technicality). Given circumstances highly favorable to conservative writers it is notable that the nominations had to include the same writer multiple times (including 3 spots in bets Novella).


Camestros Felapton

“On petunias and whales: part 9” – May 31

A conclusion

Dave Freer’s argument does not show what he thinks it shows. The flaws in the argument are:

  1. His description of a left wing category of authors is probably faulty as it relies on key issues that enjoy more popular support in the US public than some conservatives realize.
  2. Consequently his estimate of 15% while accurate for genuinely “solid liberal” people is too low when considering Hugo eligible authors. The likelihoods he needed to model may have an upper range beyond 50%.
  3. The model he uses in his analogy has some flaws but is not unreasonable and the flaws don’t severely undermine his argument
  4. Using his model an expected proportion of 45% for what he calls “red” nominees would produce results that are not highly improbable and which match his analysis of past Hugo nominees for best novel.
  5. His choice of years to analyze may be distorted by avoiding 2004 and by including WorldCon years held in countries other than the US, but his analysis would still hold if his assumption of 15% for reds was correct.
  6. There is some plausible evidence of statistical bias against very conservative authors but overall the evidence of bias is slim
  7. Dave’s argument even if it was sound does not address multiple sources of bias – some of which may be beyond WorldCon (or Puppy) influence



Joseph Tomaras on Skinseller’s Workshop

“My Last Word on the Hugos” – May 31

Campbell Award for best new writer: This is the category about which I am angriest, and not primarily or even secondarily because this was my first year of eligibility. Remember that “in addition to myself, I have also nominated Usman T. Malik (to whom I would be honored to lose), and Benjanun Sriduangkaew (who is in her second and final year of eligibility, and who I fear is unlikely to win due to some ridiculous drama).” And for a bit more about the latter, see this entry. Puppies aside, I have to question the legitimacy of a ballot with neither Malik nor Sriduangkaew. They are simply out-writing most everyone else in the present cohort.

I know I have read and enjoyed some short-form pieces by Wesley Chu. So I was mystified when I opened the Hugo voters packet, looked at the first page of The Deaths of Tao, and read this Bulwer-Lytton Award-worthy sentence:

The lone black car slunk through the dark, unlit streets, a ghostly shadow creeping past the decrepit warehouses and abandoned storefronts along the South Capitol at the outskirts of Washington DC.

Contrast that to my enthusiastic response to “Totaled” by Kary English. As for the rest of the nominees, they either have never reached my notice, or never merited it. Ballot:

  1. Kary English
  2. Wesley Chu


Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“Elitist Book Reviews, edited by Steven Diamond”

Unfortunately, during as much of the nominated year as I could push through, it’s visually hard to read–light text on dark grey background. I also didn’t find the tone and style of the reviews engaging, but I was probably less receptive because of the dark background and very light, thin text. For me, that’s a dealbreaker. If I’m going to read it, it has to be readable. Not recommended.


Lisa J. Goldstein on theinferior4

“The Hugo Ballot: Novel” – May 31

My main problem with this being on the Hugo ballot is that, as I said, it’s a formula.  It’s comfort reading, the kind of book you turn to when you’ve had a hard day and need to relax, when you don’t want anything too challenging or surprising, when you’re pretty sure the good guys will win in the end.


Rebekah Golden

“2015 Hugo Awards Best Short Story: Reviewing Turncoat” – May 30

This story was readable. I have read some very old style English books that drone on with details that had greater meaning when they were written. It would have been more fun if I’d thought the numbers provided all had masonic meaning but the author gave no hints to that effect so again I’m not going to credit him with my random imaginings that are really just a desire for this story to have been better.


Rebekah Golden

“2015 Hugo Awards Best Short Story: Reviewing Totaled” – May 30

This story is the best of those I’ve read in the short story category so far. It made me cry at the end, touched on two interesting points, and was written literately. There’s been a lot of debate about what makes something “Hugo-worthy” and where/if to place something on the ballot if it’s good but not great, bad but not worst, etc. I find it vaguely sad to be reviewing short stories that should have been nominated for being “Hugo-worthy” and being impressed simply by it being written in a well put together English.


Marion in Deeds & Words

“The Hugos, 2015, Chapter Five: Big Boys Don’t Cry” – May 31

It’s too long.

I haven’t done an exact word count, but this thing must run about 14,000 words. That is at least 4,000 words too long. A look on the Hugo Awards page tells us that a shorter version of this appeared earlier and this version, which is longer, was published in 2014. If the longer version had provided context it could have been fine. The words here now are like empty calories, and gives a reader too much time to ask too many questions, questions the writer doesn’t answer.


489 thoughts on “Pug Jack Barron 5/31

  1. Maximillian: They assumed that she was trying to buy votes and were against it, except for a few who could aspire to being half-witted, who realized that anyone could apply for the sponsorships. They were crowing about this as if they had discovered a weakness in her plan. Absolutely none of them realized that this was the point of her offer

    I know, it’s the same as with them crowing about the fact that they were the first to figure out that the ballot could be gamed in this way, when the rest of us have known it for decades.

    The Puppies are the poster children for Dunning-Kruger.

  2. Dunning-Kruger, plus a very strong conviction that nobody – particularly nobody they hate – rises to their level of ethics. Nobody is better than them, to put it simply. Therefore, an act of unexpected-to-them generosity and kindness just has to be a trick, because their priors make it clear that Mary really has to be a conniving trickster.

  3. @Bruce Baugh

    Sounds like the misandry exhibited by MRAs discussed a couple of posts back. They honestly believe other men are as horrible as they are, and if they aren’t they’re clearly “gammas”* or running a scam.

    *The predator pack pecking order thing being applied to human beings is one of the most idiotic things to ever take off on this big dumb Internet.

  4. Perhaps a bit too on the, er, nose… I am a Shakespeare fan and he did not mince words.

    Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
    Creep these sad puppies from day to day
    To the last awarded rocket of Sasquan,
    And all their silver rockets are dildoes
    Riding a dusty plinth. Down, down, heated hound!
    No Award stalks the shadows, a sodomite
    That points and mocks the boor upon the stage
    And then rejects the slate. It is a tale
    Told by the invested, subscribed members,
    Volunteering time.

  5. XS: A predator pack pecking order which is also based in bad science. The Alpha wolf theories were based on observations of wolves in captivity, later observations of wolves in their natural habitats showed major flaws in this concept.

  6. James Worrad at 8:40 pm:

    Have we achieved “Peak Puppy”? Because someone else independently came up with Three Doggy Problem as a title suggestion previously & I’m sure that’s not the first time it’s happened. (I hope Mike is noting these title ideas because I can’t keep up anymore)

  7. Soon: I’m not sure about Peak Puppy, but we’ve certainly been tilling the same ground for a while. I’m not about to fault anyone for not checking against the body of title suggestions to compare with their own idea, it’d be a bit of a task even if it didn’t require going through all the other comments.

  8. XS on June 1, 2015 at 8:32 pm said:

    That’s part of my answer too, with the other half being Mercedes Lackey’s Last Herald-Mage for doing the same thing for gay characters. That series was a godsend during a very difficult time.

    For me, that came with Melissa Scott, especially her Silence Leigh Trilogy. Which says a little something about me that freaks binary folks right out. Pun unintended, but amusing. (I love puns, aka the Lowest Form of Humor.)

  9. Brian,

    Was there a Canaan Days filk to go with your blogs title? If not, my contribution:

    Do you remember the good years for Hugos
    The stories were easy to read
    There was no political correctness
    The women were just there to please
    You know it’s funny but since we lost Heinlein
    Things have gone to the other extreme
    Nowadays it’s just to hard
    The editors are all libtards
    Intent upon their little socialst dreams

    Those Heinlein days we used to know
    Where have they gone, where did they go?
    Salute! Cap in honour raise
    To those Heinlein days

    A conservative can’t win a Hugo
    The SMOFs have all seen to that
    They gather in out-of-way places
    And draw favoured names from a hat
    The folk like the Johns: Wright and Ringo
    The cream of the Baen Bar elite
    Every one a shining star
    In Amazon ranks they have no par
    So jealous Skalzi cooks up an evil scheme

    Those Heinlein days we used to know
    Where have they gone, where did they go?
    Fly the flag half mast
    The Hugo’s days are past
    Weep as the Death March plays
    To those Heinlein days

  10. One “Wow!” moment.

    I remember reading Mavin the Manyshaped and being stunned about how graphic her publishers were letting her be. The whole Truegame series was an eye-opener, both for the world and the philosophy it espoused.

  11. Mavin Manyshaped flashback! That whole universe was crazy awesome when I first read it, but for me it doesn’t hold up anymore. Mostly because the writing is awkward and the pacing is uneven. And some clue by fours, but the last is probably due to experience.

  12. Stick Game (The Dogwhistle Files)
    Anklebiter Sword
    The Mongrel Alphamale
    The Doghouse Between the Hares

    .Maybe this really is Peak Puppy.

  13. I agree about Mavin Manyshaped! I was horrified and also felt this immense freedom from reading it. I continue to be challenged by Tepper’s books but always in the best way. That said I can’t read more than one a year.

    @RedWombat – I loved Chalice. It was haunting in its simplicity and was the most paired down of McKinley’s nearly a fairytale writing. Sunshine was a fantastic romp. Deerskin hit a lot of the same topics that Tepper often covers but more lyrical and optimistic. I won’t claim to be unbiased in my appreciation of McKinley’s books.

  14. My Wow! moment – 1977, I’m 12 and female, and magazines aimed at girls my age are full of stories that end with “if you want to get a boy, act dumb and wear make up”. I pick up “The Menace from Earth”, expecting a flip on the trope of “It Came from Outer Space!” When teenage aspiring starship designer Holly’s boyfriend is distracted by an older woman, her mom does *not* tell her to get a makeover and act more girly to win him back. I had never read a story with that plot that ended that way.

  15. @Jamoche:

    It occurs to me that The Menace from Earth – the collection, I mean – is a perfect refutation of the “Nutty Nuggets” thesis, for exactly the reason you describe. The title (and, as I recall, the original cover) both evoke Adventure! and Monsters! – but instead, the title story’s “menace” is a relationship-based rival. The stories are even by Saint Heinlein, just to salt the wound further, and published in the Golden Age.

    Makes me want to find an inexpensive paperback copy and lob it at Torgersen sometime, but That Would Be Wrong.

  16. Oh, as for my own WOW moment… I don’t really have one. I started reading when I was two, so I’ve forgotten what my earliest books were. I’ve loved SF and space for longer than I can remember.

    The story I always tell, though, is of a day my mother and her boyfriend went to the local flea market. They came back with a dozen paperbacks they’d gotten for me, for the princely sum of a dime each. I know two of them were R is for Rocket and S is for Space, and I may be forgetting one or two others, but the rest were Heinleins.

    I read them voraciously, of course, and not long afterward, I saw a paperback copy of Friday at a department store. One of the praise reviews mentioned a connection to an earlier story, and that really caught my eye. I’d liked those dime paperbacks enough to get this, and there’s a prequel somewhere? WANT.

    As it happens, I attended a private school at the time (7-12), and that meant waiting for my mother to pick me up after work instead of catching a bus home. This gave me an hour or two to kill in the afternoons, and I discovered that within walking distance – just through the tunnel – was a used book store. Every so often, I’d prowl through its shelves in hopes of finding another Heinlein or two, and that’s where I got… oh, The Door Into Summer, I’m sure, and Sixth Column, but I think that’s where my copy of Menace came from as well.

    I’d read SF before that happy weekend haul, and was well hooked on it, but I always think back to those dozen books and that one fortuitous blurb as really setting me on the path. It’s as close to a single WOW as I’ve got to offer.

  17. I think that The Menace From Earth/Podkayne of Mars/The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are my “natal” RAHs. I love many of his other books, but I probably have the fewest problems with those.

  18. @Ann Somerville

    […] Rick and Deirdre Moen into accepting her bullshit victim narrative […]

    Rumour has it that Ms. Somerville calls herself a feminist. As it happens, Ms. Somerville, my wife Deirdre’s surname is ‘Saoirse Moen’, as explained in many places on the Internet including the Geek Feminism Wiki. You might want to work at curing yourself of those patriarchal assumptions. Ceasing to call women ‘cunts’ might be an excellent step, too, while you’re at it.

  19. I like how both Moens have focused on the name issue while ignoring the debunking of Deirdre’s version of events at that convention and on Twitter.

    But hey, you two go right ahead and keep on stanning for an abuser on one side of the spectrum while denying the antisemitism of another abuser at the opposite end.

    I guess that balances out?

  20. Rev. BobI always think back to those dozen books and that one fortuitous blurb as really setting me on the path. It’s as close to a single WOW as I’ve got to offer.

    I grew up in a small town, and the grade school, junior high, and high school all shared one building, and one library. So as a young child, I had access to a lot of high-school and adult-level novels. I’d read the L’Engle books, and the Earthsea trilogy, and then I found my school library’s special promotional heavy cardboard, tiered rack of Signet New American Library paperbacks with 3 or 4 dozen books, many of them science fiction, in it. (I don’t know whose idea it was to promote these rack-packages of books to school libraries, but if I ever found out, I would kiss them so hard they wouldn’t know what hit them, and offer them my firstborn.)

    I don’t remember (to my sorrow) what my first Heinlein was. It might have been The Puppet Masters, or The Day After Tomorrow (Sixth Column). Or The Menace From Earth, Double Star, Beyond This Horizon, Methuselah’s Children, The Man Who Sold The Moon, Assignment In Eternity, Revolt in 2100, Orphans of the Sky, or The Door Into Summer, or any of those Heinleins with the fabulous Gene Szafan covers.

    All I remember is that I read the first one, and said “WHOA!”, then proceeded to plow through all the rest of them. And again. And yet again. So many fans talk about how, as a child, SFF was literally a lifesaver for them. I’m one of those fans.

    Today, I can read a Heinlein (especially one of the later ones) and recognize its flaws and the parts which have not aged well. But I will always have a special place in my heart for the books which made me think, “Oh, yes! THIS!”

  21. My “Whoa!” moment was probably “The Hobbit”. Up to then, I’d been reading a lot of Enid Blyton & the Hardy Boys mysteries. “The Hobbit” (lent by family friends) was so qualitatively different that I became a Tolkien fan on the spot & pestered the parents to buy me LotR. And when I read that, it was “Whoa!” all over again. The Science Fiction followed shortly after.

  22. @XS:

    And then Winterfox’s current (and shrinking) clique started throwing around lies that Sperring joked about Winterfox/Vox Day slash fiction at a fanfic panel. Said fic she was referring to was merely a romanceless riff on Doom:Repercussions of Evil.

    First and least important, it most certainly was not ‘a fanfic panel’. It was a quickly organised evening panel at the 2015 Eastercon (Dysprosium) about the just-released Hugo nominations slate.

    Second, Deirdre Saoirse Moen posted a comment to a discussion thread on her blog that someone on that panel (but she didn’t know the name of which panelist, at the time) had said during that panel that someone “should write slash featuring Requires Hate and Vox Day’. This was a mishearing on Deirdre’s part solely as to tense: Keri didn’t say ‘should’, but rather ‘did’, e.g., ‘someone wrote slash…’. I was in the audience a bit closer to the front than Deirdre was, and could hear and see more clearly. (I’d given up my seat to Deirdre, as she cannot stand for long, and had stood near the front.) Keri has acknowledged that she said exactly what Deirdre reported, but for the verb tense, but avers that she meant only ‘fic’ when she said ‘slash’, i.e., she was attempting to use the word ‘slash ‘s a non-conventional sense devoid of romantic or sexual connotations, and was aggrieved when people read it as meaning the conventional sense.

    This was, you will observe, very far from ‘lies’ on Deirdre’s part, but rather something one might call ‘reporting on what people said on a panel’, and substantively very accurate. In accordance with recent File770 tradition (and befitting a John C. Wright-certified ‘wretched hive of scum and villainy’), I will gladly accept your non-existent apology.

  23. @JJ: “or any of those Heinleins with the fabulous Gene Szafan covers.”

    Oh, yes. I always identify those specifically with that through-the-tunnel bookstore. Those and the black-cover paperbacks were my iconic “old Heinlein” (that is, anything I bought used) covers, just as di Fate’s sword-wielding angel (from Assignment in Eternity, and I can tell you exactly where I got it*, and how much I treasure di Fate’s signature inside) and Whelan’s lovely-but-inaccurate Friday linger in my memory. I can see the classic Berkley The Past Through Tomorrow cover as clear as day in my head, but I don’t know the artist, although it’s just as iconic an image to me. Then there are the Signet editions with the stencil-style name running up the left edge of the cover, and what I still think of as the “new” man-holding-mask cover for Double Star, and… (sigh)

    One of the tragedies of getting ebooks of those classics is that they never have the covers I remember. Even if I could find good scans of them online, there’s the small matter of copyright law and DRM protection to consider… and even then, it just wouldn’t be the same.

    * It was a Waldenbooks in Knoxville, back around 1986. They had two copies, identical except for the price, and I chose the $1.95 version.

  24. Uh, @Rick Moen with that last post, not at Rev. Bob.

    God, that would be like posting angry at Santa.

  25. My ‘woah’ moment was Lord of the Rings. It appeared on a school ‘summer reading’ list when I was 13 or 14. I read it once, then again… and again until my father pointed out that I should perhaps read some of the other books on the list before the summer ended. I didn’t.

    I hadn’t read The Hobbit at that stage and was a little disappointed that it wasn’t the same kind of thing.

  26. Wow! moments – I remember, as a young teen, reaching the time-loop solution in Dragonflight and bursting into tears from the sheer overwhelm of fitting that logical structure into my head. It all suddenly made sense, and it was terrible and wonderful and broken and whole, all at once. The problem had to be there, in order for there to be a solution, and it sucked and it was glorious and my brain hurt and I just sat there sobbing for a few minutes until I could handle it again.

    Time-loop stories always have had an effect on me. I think this was the first time one of them dinged me in the kaWOWzer that hard.

  27. And since this thread seems to have a particularly lively filk cluster going on, please have another one from the They Might Be Puppies “Dog Henry” album:

    “Destination Hugo”

    Don’t bother to vote your noms
    There’s somebody here who’s got a slate
    Also hundreds of devoted fans
    Who can be counted on to ensure that I get

    A rocket for my room
    A ballot for my rocket
    A slate to sweep the ballot
    A slate-assembling puppy
    Who’s airing out resentments from that Reno con

    Thank you, Noah Ward, for trying to make this worse,
    But you see that only serves my cause
    You’ll see, I’ll make you see,
    I’ll make you all pay
    Because you wouldn’t give me

    A rocket for my room
    A ballot for my rocket
    A slate to sweep the ballot
    A slate-assembling puppy
    Who’s airing out resentments from that ML thread

    (And in Two Thousand Sixteen
    We’ll release the hounds of war:

    Thank you, Noah Ward, trying to make things worse,
    But you see that just steels my resolve
    You’ll see, I’ll make you see,
    I’ll make you all pay
    Because you wouldn’t give me

    A rocket for my room
    A ballot for my rocket
    A slate to sweep the ballot
    A slate-assembling puppy
    Who’s airing out resentments from the Golden Age

    A rocket for my room
    Vote for my rocket!
    Rule changes for the ballot?
    Just to shut out the puppies?!
    Let’s air out our resentments at the Sasquan SMOFs this year

    (Given the original lyrics, I was briefly tempted to throw in something about puppy urine running down one’s furry leg. But only briefly.)

  28. Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little: the time-loop solution in Dragonflight

    Oh, yes, the tapestry, and the mystery of the missing dragonriders! Definitely a “WHOA!” moment.

  29. Re: Whoah

    The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander, with thanks to the most excellent children’s librarian. Then whichever Heinlein collection had The Long Watch and The Cool Green Hills of Earth, found on a shelf in my grandparents’ house, courtesy of an uncle.

  30. @RevBob “They had two copies, identical except for the price, and I chose the $1.95 version.”

    …And that has made all the difference.

  31. @XS: Again, Keri Sperring confirms everything that Deirdre reported, so if Deirdre is ‘lying’, then logically that would require that Keri Sperring be lying in concert with Deirdre (concerning what Deirdre reported that Keri said).

    I really have zero idea what Anna stated, but, if you think Keri’s concurring with Deirdre about the accuracy of Deirdre’s passing blog comment (cavilling only about the ‘should’, and claiming that people should have understood her phrase ‘slash’ to have had no romantic connotations) has no importance, then you have bigger problems than going around accusing people of ‘lies’ for fundamentally accurate and matter-of-fact passing mentions of what people had said on Eastercon panels.

    I’ll gladly accept your nonexistent apology over your implication that I’m likewise lying (though you left unstated whether I’m supposedly lying about what I heard while attending the discussed Dysprosium panel — the one you misidentified as a ‘fanfic panel’ — that I attended, or something else; feel welcome to clarify the gratuitous slander).

  32. Rick: If I say, “They hacked off my cousin’s finger with a fish knife,” I guess I can understand someone hearing that as “They should hack off my cousin’s finger with a fish knife.” But I wouldn’t call it “substantively very accurate.”

  33. @Maximillian: “…And that has made all the difference.”

    Actually… yeah, pretty much. You’ve gotta admit, it cemented the story in my head the way buying the $2.50 copy wouldn’t have. 🙂

  34. @Rick Moen

    If you’re too busy coming up with more apologia for antisemites like Beale to find Anna’s post in this very thread a hop, skip, and a jump from my post that you quoted, here:


    Furthermore, DSM didn’t just post that to her blog. She went on Twitter and pointed a serial abuser at one of her victims.

    If I’m wrong about the nature of the panel, I’m wrong. But I am not wrong about DSM mischaracterizing what Kari said and the malicious stunt she pulled with that misinformation.

    You keep talking about accepting non-existent apologies. Rest assured you’ll get none. I have zero patience left for abusers like Sriduagkaew and Beale. And that follows for abuse enablers like Diedre and abuse apologists like you.

    Now go have a lie down.

  35. @XS:

    Uh, @Rick Moen with that last post, not at Rev. Bob.

    God, that would be like posting angry at Santa.

    I have the vague sense that I should object to that in some fashion, but I’m not quite sure how or why…

  36. Brian Z on June 1, 2015 at 7:52 pm said:

    I also wondered whether it is relevant that he lives in Italy, where saying men and women have different places in society and so forth might be considered relatively mainstream compared with the US, and some have turned uttering fascist-ish statements that are not really fascist when you look at them closely into a spectator sport.

    My understanding is he lives in Switzerland (the Italian speaking part, probably). But you are right, Italy is not what you’d call a bastion of progressive feminist thinking, these days (alas; although it used to be). Not even Italians would be looking kindly on weasel-wording an approval for shooting schoolgirls in the face, however.

  37. JJ on June 1, 2015 at 8:53 pm said:
    mintwitch: Other books that blew me away… Pern

    Likewise, at the very end of Iain M. Banks’ The Algebraist: “WHOA!”

    For me it was the end of Use of Weapons. I remained in the same position curled up on my bed after finishing the book for at least an hour. It felt like a punch in the gut.

    (Also, but less traumatic, the picture of the “warrior” in The Book of the New Sun, and the totality of Ancillary Justice.)

  38. This was, you will observe, very far from ‘lies’ on Deirdre’s part, but rather something one might call ‘reporting on what people said on a panel’, and substantively very accurate. In accordance with recent File770 tradition (and befitting a John C. Wright-certified ‘wretched hive of scum and villainy’), I will gladly accept your non-existent apology.

    I am sorry Rick, but it was not “substantially” very accurate. It is at best “technically” accurate. The fact is Deirdre reported it with shock and horror and disgust, and when the troll in question probed her for more information was more than happy, eager and willing to provide it, even going along with the characterisation that it was “rapefic”. This in the context of a conversation where somebody else (who has since I believe apologised) immediately wondered how Kari wasn’t “booted out of the con” and wrote to the con chair to complain about her not being immediately expelled. Deirdre went on to say “I can’t imagine being the person in front of the room saying those things. I just can’t”.

    “Those things” were, to the best of my recollection, “Fail Fandom Anon is writing fanfic on VD and RH”. She did this after making the point that VD believes that people like her should stay in the kitchen and shut up, and then segueing to the suggestion that the best thing was to mock them, by quoting FFA.

    Several people wrote in private to Deirdre to explain to her what the situation was. She was, as I recollect, too tired to answer.

    I am perfectly willing to cut her some slack by believing that she misunderstood what was going on. But her misunderstanding (which nobody else in the room shared, to the best of my knowledge) caused a great deal of grief to people. Everybody can make a mistake, but when they do it would be nice to either apologise or at the very least not demand apology from other people who are utterly innocent.

  39. I worked out how to read by the time I was three. My first “Whoa” book was The Graphic Work of M.C. Escher, in which I was as fascinated by his explanatory essays as by the images.

    Sci-fi I took in stride. The first “Whoa” SFF I can recall is Tanith Lee’s Kill the Dead, which also gave me a love for Don Maitz’ cover art. I got “Whoa” from the “Mavin Manyshaped” books (even if they haven’t aged well) in part because they introduced me to the amazing cover art of Kinuko Craft.

  40. A belated huzzah for owlmirror’s filk “Blog John C”. It deserves to be sung!

  41. As someone who wasn’t there and missed the initial uproarch I’d like to add that my impression was that DSM and Kari Sperring had a misunderstanding for which Dr. Sperring is at least in so far to blame as “slash” and “fic” are two different things. I Found DSM’s apology convincing (http://deirdre.net/my-comment-goes-viral-escalates-and-i-apologize/) and as the matter appears to be resolved between the the participants I see no point for others to still get mad about it.

  42. I don’t know that it was a “whoa!” moment, but more of a “whoa!” summer. Between fifth and sixth grades, I had the 2-volume “Treasury of Great Science Fiction” (1959) checked out of the library for the entire summer. Poul Anderson’s “Brain Wave,” Bester’s “The Stars My Destination,” Heinlein’s “The Man Who Sold The Moon,” lots more. I think this was the large batch of science fiction I read which wasn’t YA.

    Nostalgia washes over me. Hmm, I see it’s quite affordable in the used market. I should grab a set for me and a couple of sets for some kids I know.

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