The Puppies Who Walked Into Walls 6/4

aka The Genre That Day Stood Still

In the roundup today: Craig R., L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright, Sanford Begley, George R.R. Martin, Sarah A. Hoyt, Brad K. Horner, Lis Carey, Patrick May, William Reichard, Fred Kiesche and mysterious others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Daniel Dern and Glenn Hauman.)

Craig R. on Boston Progressive

“’Just this one teensy, tiny little change…’” – June 4

One of the great divides in SF/F right now is between groups of readers that want to claim SF and Fantasy as purely descriptive entertainment, the epitome of escape literature, just living in shared authorial moments of the storyteller entertaining us at the fair, or in the tavern, with no other motive express, implied or accepted. You pays your pennies on the drumhead for the entertainment and that’s all you want to see and hear.

On the other side of the table or those who say that all stories have some ulterior external dimension, some subtext,  some “message.”  There is no choice, there is always subtext, whether the author means for inclusion or not.  It is inevitable.

In the Interests Of Full Disclosure, I will tell you that I belong in the second camp: not from any skill at analysis, nor any training in critical literature theory, just cause it seems like the way things are.

From my viewpoint, the very act of reaching for the ability to entertain, or the ability to make any kind of contact with the intended audience requires an assumption of commonality of fundamental background points.

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright interview for Superversive SF

“Interview with Hugo Nominee: Arlan Andrews, Sr.!” – June 4

1) All the Sad Puppies selections came from a list of stories that fans felt were their favorites from 2014. What about your story do you think brought it to the attention of whomever suggested it?

Presumably, because they liked the setting, the characters, and the story of my novella, “Flow.” “Flow” was the sequel to 2013’s “Thaw,” (the cover for which won the Analog Reader’s Award for Best Cover of 2013).  The whole series of stories takes place after the next Ice Age (a politically incorrect supposition in itself), and the protagonist, Rist, is himself quite politically incorrect, though dark-skinned; he is a diminutive, sexist smartass (as are most males in the primitive society in which he was raised) and his mouth gets him literally into deep shit.  The story, actually a vignette, ends in a (literal) cliff-hanger that will be followed by “Fall,” where Rist descends into yet another kind of society existing some 30,000 years from now.  It will likely be called non-PC as well, though I have to remind people that authors are not necessarily the same as their characters.

 

Alex on Ada’s Technical Books and Cafe

“Madeline Ashby: Fiction Writer and Futurist” – June 4

One particularly poignant statement we both picked up on was made in the context of the controversy surrounding the 2015 Hugo Awards. Madeline [Ashby] said that we all have a tendency to “presume people think like (we) do, but generally, they don’t.” Though perhaps a bit of an obvious statement, I think it is equally powerful. Whether positively or negatively, humans must regularly navigate the disparity between our processes of thinking. Imbuing your actions with a recognition of difference may be a way to bridge gaps between people approaching a conflict in different ways, or at least a way to mitigate frustration when questionable (or outright despicable) decisions are made.

 

Alanaburke.com

“Local editor earns prestigious science fiction/fantasy award nomination – Ottawaherald.com” – June 4

“I was quite stunned and surprised [when I first heard] frankly due to the fact that I’ve just been executing this for concerning 6 years and I’ve just got four anthologies under my belt,” Schmidt said. “I’m relatively new, so to me it seemed earlier in my job compared to I would certainly have actually expected for something adore that to happen. I was thrilled and humbled at the exact same time that people believe I’m great enough to receive a nomination due to the fact that it is a fairly prestigious award. There was a great deal of excitement and happiness mixed in there as well.”

That happiness will certainly travel along with Schmidt to Spokane, Washington, where the awards will certainly be presented Aug. 22 at the 73rd Globe Science Fiction Convention. The Hugo Awards, named after pioneering science fiction magazine “Incredible Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback, are provided annually for the very best science fiction and fantasy functions of the previous year, according to a news release.

 

Sanford Begley on The Otherwhere Gazette

“The Puppies need to thank these recruiters”

The Sad Puppies really do need to thank some people who are not of their number. I’ve been watching this fiasco as someone who is in sympathy with the SP movement without being one myself. The truth for the rank and file SP members is basically that they were informed that they could vote on the Hugos and actually get books they liked on the ballot. From the point of view of the rank and file Puppies this was information on how-to and some recommendations they could follow, but were not required to. Most of the rank and file used some of the suggestions and substituted others as they saw fit. Admittedly this did cause those who did not have enough recommendations in their own reading to use the list as a source for filling out the rest of the nominations. After all, they knew a bit about Brad Torgerson and Larry Correia and could rely on them to suggest good books. Which they could then read in the voter packet and vote upon.

[This author needs to correct a tendency to misspell everybody’s name – “Brad Torgerson,” “Teresa Nielson Hayden,” “Patrick Hayden Nielson,” “Betsy Wolheim,” “N.K. Jemison.” I leave aside one other that was clearly intentional, but always remember, intentional misspellings are meaningless when true errors abound.]

 

George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog

“Catching Up” – June 4

— Conquest was cool. The KC fen throw a great con. And I was heartened by all the people who came up to thank me for my posts about the Hugos. Even in the nation’s heartland, it seems, there is considerable fannish anger about the Sad and Rabid Puppies pooping on our awards,

— Yes, Puppygate has continued, though I’ve been too busy to post about it. The Sad Puppies continue to be clueless, moving their goalposts almost daily. The Rabid Puppies continue to be venomous. Lots of other people are reading the Hugo nominees and reviewing the finalists. That’s what I am doing myself, though I am way behind in my reading,

 

Sarah A. Hoyt

“The Condescension of the Elites” – June 4

In fact, if one wades into the Sad Puppy mess (here, wear galoshes. You’ll need it) the side that says things like “You’re not true fans” or “your tastes are just low” or “your writing is bad” or “Our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” or “you’ll never work in this town again” or “for daring talk against us, you’ll never win a Hugo” is not the Puppy supporters.

This is because the “power” at least if understood as traditional publishing power, in this field is NOT from puppy supporters. The people opposing the puppies (not their lickspittles running around blogs shouting the crumbs that fall from their masters’ tables) are powers in the field: well established editors with power of the purse; writers who get publicity campaigns and push and huge advances; critics who have for years been reviewing the “well regarded” stuff and establishing a taste that is Marxism with a mix of glitterati, or in other words, positional good leftism.

You’d think that people who have been extensively indoctrinated in Marxism would understand the difference between “establishment power” and “economic power” and the revolutionaries who come in saying “But you’ve been going wrong by alienating the reading public; we don’t give a hot damn what your political opinions are, but you need to tell stories people want to read, and if you don’t people should be able to participate in the intervention to make you see why your print runs keep falling.”

I.e. they would understand that they are in fact on the side that is being condescending by virtue of having all the power in the field, including power of the purse.

 

Brad K. Horner

“Flight of the Kikayon: A Sci-Fi Novelette by Kary English” – June 4

My rating: 4 of 5 stars

This is a crisp and gloriously clear adventure story of a woman trying to escape her abusive husband with the help of her clone. I was touched. It really had heart.

Of course, the planet where she eventually wound up, swiss family robinson style, had one hell of a fascinating sea monster in it, so that’s a huge plus.

The story made me think about love and children, but not exclusively, and not oppressively. It was warming, not frantic, and I really enjoyed the ride. Crisp and gloriously clear sums it up very nicely, from writing, to imagery, to themes. Nothing was out of place and it felt inevitable. Which is very strange, considering that she wound up stranded and losing everything. Who am I to argue about the vagaries of fate or authorship?

I read this in preparation for the Campbell nomination of 2015, and I’m proud to say I read it, regardless. It shines.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“The Sci Phi Show, presented by Jason Rennie” – June 3

The Sci Phi Show discusses major philosophers and schools of philosophy illuminated in science fiction, fairly broadly defined. In the sample episode, it’s Nietzsche and the movie The Dark Knight. It’s an intelligent, thoughtful discussion, with good production values, accompanied by odd, distracting sound effects. There’s also opening and closing theme music that tries hard to give me a headache.

 

Patrick May

“2015 Hugo Award Novella Category” – June 4

[Each nominee is analyzed, then this conclusion — ]

My Hugo ballot for this category is:

  1. Flow
  2. Big Boys Don’t Cry
  3. The Plural of Helen of Troy
  4. No Award
  5. One Bright Start to Guide Them
  6. Pale Realms of Shade

Aside from the first two, the entries in this category are disappointing. There were far better novellas published in 2014 in Analog and Asimov’s alone. “Big Boys Don’t Cry”, while not as good as “Flow”, is certainly no worse than some nominees and winners in the past. I’m leaving “The Plural of Helen of Troy” slightly above No Award solely because Wright plays with (and occasionally loses to) some classic science fiction concepts. Overall it’s not really Hugo worthy, though.

 

William Reichard

“Apres Hugo” – June 4

After a lively day of schussing down the slippery slopes of unwinnable arguments, you’re pleasantly stupefied. Now you just want to relax and kick back, are we right?

That’s why when you get back to the toasty comfort of your own ideological hearth, you should reach for Hubik.

Hubik has everything a tired mind craves: a refreshing illusion of efficacy, a promise of persistent meaning, and a soothing anesthetic effect that will help you drift off to an untroubled sleep. Just spray a little around your armchair, and presto! The perfect ending to another day of lovely mountain sport.…

 

 

 

 

416 thoughts on “The Puppies Who Walked Into Walls 6/4

  1. All this talk of Laumer’s BOLOs has made me very nostalgic as well. I hope it’s not too off topic to point out that Steve Jackson Games has recently made available the original pocket edition of OGRE – which I only today discovered was inspired by BOLO (among other MilSF sources), instead of the other way around as I had mistakenly assumed all these years. Something new every day!

  2. Worried scared dogs don’t perform well or win shows. Sitting still is not a burden either. Dogs are trained to do all kinds of things and good trainers reward, not punish. You can’t force a dog to do any of this kind of thing. And they don’t actually care if they look ridiculous. Animals don’t think that way./

    Several people told me that long haired cats really don’t like having the lion cut in summer. I am not sure I believe it’s the loss of fur, rather than the procedure being distressing.

  3. @cmm

    MilSF, or at least SF with a partial military setting, that doesn’t suck.

    Have you read Susan Matthews? Her Under Jurisdiction series (published by Roc and Baen) is pretty good although it is a tough first book. The protagonist works for Fleet (the space navy) as a Ship’s Surgeon and is also an Inquisitor (basically a judicial torturer).

    Also Alastair Reynolds’s new book Slow Bullets features a soldier as protagonist

  4. Steve Busiek:”“This article is about the author. For the steamboat, see Sarah Hoyt (sidewheeler).”

    Are we sure this isn’t the steamboat blogging? It would explain a lot.”

    That is literal objectification of a woman. I thought that sort of thing was frowned upon in SJW circles. Quickly, repent before a horde of angry harpies decend on you.

  5. @Kurt “And I’ve just Googled “today’s 10,000,” which I’d seen several times without knowing what it meant.”

    When I grow up, I want to be Randall Munroe. This is awkward, given that I am at least a decade older than he.

  6. Rev Bob on the Baen Best of MilSF and Space Opera Anthology and Award: The nomination process appears to be “what David Afsharirad liked” – he does not allude to any other judges or criteria. Moreover, his preface is full of, well, Puppy dog-whistle language.

    I consider the Puppy language here to be an excellent choice. It clearly says what this anthology is supposed to be. If Afsharirad is picking works on the basis of those aesthetics then I heartily approve. A best-of-Puppy anthology is a great idea.

    Now the award being a popular vote based on the choices of one man; if I were being snide then I might draw a long involved parallel between this and the Puppy slates. It is a weakness in the system. But not necessarily a fatal weakness. If he picks widely and wisely then it sounds like the kind of thing core-Puppies might get behind, and promote the winners; and if his selection is good enough then non-puppies might be interested too.

    The weakness, of course, comes from the fact this is a publisher initiative; an award coming from the profession side of SF/F. It’s NOT a fan award, for fannish purposes, but a promotional tool for authors and Baen books. This might be considered a plus point by Puppies, who are an author* lead movement rather a fan-lead one; for all their talk of the Hugos not representing fans, they’re much more interested in the Hugos being “fair” to conservative authors.

    * And editor/publisher in the case of VD

  7. @Brian Z

    I would be interested in more of his thoughts on the suitability of the works he is slated with for a Hugo, and what he makes of the criticisms going ’round here.

    While I would also be interested, I’m not sure it would be fair to ask. If he didn’t like any of them and said so he’d end up in a very awkward position. It would also be difficult to take high praise at face value considering that.

  8. Meredith,

    Oh, I don’t think I meant to hold his feet to the fire about any particular author, but I would interested (if he would like to offer them) in his general observations on how the slate picks have so spectacularly failed to connect with so many likely Hugo voters. He his review site and fanwriting nomination are for sff-related in addition to gaming-related topics and he has recently written things like Oh Analog No where in addition to the cover art leaving him cold, he found nothing between the covers that might tempt him away from polishing off the rest of the A. Merritt novels. He’s got a very interesting perspective.

  9. In the future, we’ll just give the XKCD reference number and everyone will know what we’re talking about.

  10. @Brian Z

    That sounds reasonable. If he can comment in a more general sense without compromising either himself or our ability to take him at face value I too would be interested.

  11. James David Nicoll says:

    I am open to suggestions, btw.

    If you mean suggestions for military sf that doesn’t suck, please check out A Soldier’s Duty by Jean Johnson. Admittedly, I love it for reasons other than the military content, but the military content certainly does not suck.

  12. @aeou “That is literal objectification of a woman. I thought that sort of thing was frowned upon in SJW circles. Quickly, repent before a horde of angry harpies decend on you.”

    Are you a parody? That makes no sense.

    In any case, “steamboat” would not qualify as objectification, since there’s nothing sexual about it. (I thought it was funny, myself.)

  13. Rev. Bob says about the Baen Military SF and Space Opera Award:

    In other words, it’s exactly what Brad Torgersen did with the Sad Puppy slate, but without even an ELoE helping him find stuff. One guy makes a slate, and everyone else is supposed to just accept its validity and vote from it.

    The essential difference is that the Baen award is intended to work this way. There’s nothing inherently wrong with an award where stage 1 is that one guy curates the works and stage 2 is that a popular vote decides the winner, as long as that’s in keeping with the spirit of the award rules.

  14. redheadedfemme on June 6, 2015 at 7:11 am said:
    @aeou “That is literal objectification of a woman. I thought that sort of thing was frowned upon in SJW circles. Quickly, repent before a horde of angry harpies decend on you.”

    Are you a parody? That makes no sense.

    In any case, “steamboat” would not qualify as objectification, since there’s nothing sexual about it. (I thought it was funny, myself.)

    If aeou has yet said anything which is not Rabid Puppy trolling, I have not seen it.

  15. Since it appears the (former*) steamboat was named Sarah Hoyt before Sarah Hoyt took that name, then this is literally anthropomorphism of the boat.

    * The boat in question was renamed Sarah Hoyt after the boilers exploded and it was unpowered

  16. ‘Thou hast called me into Narnia, Soon Lee. Here I am. What hast thou to say?’

    Your second album sucked.

  17. @Gabriel F: http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=5#comment-275936

    “Except we know that’s emphatically not true. For satire to work, there has to be a kernal of truth in it.”

    Emphatically, it is a funny word indeed; “Except we know that is in a forceful way not true.”

    Usually it is the authoritarians who insist on ‘forceful’ truths, often in tangent with totalitarian systems. And a prime example of such would be the Catholic Church before the Protestant Reformation. As for the kernel of truth in satire, it goes unnoticed if the reader is without that ounce of self-criticism.

    Next.

    @Steven Schwartz: http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=5#comment-275937

    — utterly accurate —

    I am not sure if it was the intention, but you just made this ‘puppy’ roll on the floor laughing his arse off.

    I mean starting from the start of Mamatas’ comment; Puppy supporters are nothing short of beer drinking drunkards drunkenly following an intellectual caste of some kind. The mention of beer consumption is usually used to paint a mental image of how one group remains beneath oneself, and how one’s tastes remain superior. A statement often made in utter ignorance of the breath and range in the sheer variety of ‘beers.’ (At least compared to the far more limited flavours of vinegar.) (I drink neither.) As for the claim of intellectual caste, it normally refers to decades of academic merits. What we have, based on the earlier comment discussions; a former gun store owner, a deployed US soldier, and an individual whose academic merits have been severely questioned to say in the least. Not quite a bunch of the more traditional stereotype of an intellectual caste.

    Mamatas proceeds with a paragraph on the topic of democratic processes. Yet he appears oblivious to the fact how the ‘Bolsheviks’ were the only allowed political faction, whose followers were tied to vote according the wishes of the party leaders. It is quite a contrast to the ‘Puppy Slates’ that remain as binding as any demands presented on any blog. If you do not want to follow a list in its entirety, you do not have to. There are even ‘Rabid Puppies’ on record how they didn’t vote exactly as Vox hoped for. Therefore, as far as election processes go, a more fitting example would be found from the British Parliamentary Elections.

    Mamatas continuous with mentions of Socialist Realism, and once more remains oblivious. Socialist Realism is. I mean, there is a short list for Socialist Realism:

    1) Proletarian: art relevant to the workers and understandable to them.
    2) Typical: scenes of every day life of the people.
    3) Realistic: in the representational sense.
    4) Partisan: supportive of the aims of the State and the Party.

    And based on the above list, the demands of the ‘Puppies’ at most touch the first point, while the works they have criticised easily fall into the categories of ‘Typical, Realistic, and Partisan.’ In other words, the ‘Puppies’ appear as really terrible proponents of Socialist Realism. Even if we give leeway and follow Mamatas’ own definitions in the loosest sense.

    Mamatas’ satire is followed by mention of Proletkult. A society of experimental Avant-Garde artists seeking to create new, revolutionary working class aesthetic. Well, previously on the comments of File770, the efforts of the ‘Puppies’ were described as anything but. In fact Mamatas even admits himself that the ‘Puppies’ wish to award what the population currently appreciates, rather than what a ‘Proletkult’ would prefer them to favour. Am I only one who spots this obvious conflict of interest?

    As we draw closer to the end, Mamatas describes how the ‘Puppies’ wish to broaden the fandom to involve everyone, by telling that people can vote for what they think is best. A result that might lead into redistribution of wealth in the reputation economy. But this prospect of freedom remains in dire conflict with the theme of Bolshevism. After all Bolshevism centralized all power and wealth into the hands of the ruling party members who favoured an authoritarian society under totalitarian rule.

    Thus if there is a red star rising at Spokane, it is not the star of the ‘Puppies.’ Thus if Nick’s intention was to satire his own side of the argument, by painting it as the opponent, he has succeeded. But if it was not, then perhaps what we are lacking is those kernel’s of truth.

    But with that said, let us get back to Steven Schwartz’ actual post and the criticism he levied towards mine:

    The crucial thing to understand about the Protestant Reformation, is that everyone was Catholic until the dissatisfaction towards how things were run reached a point that people took action to cause a change. There was dissatisfaction towards what works got nominated and won the award, and so we reached a point where people took action to cause a change.

    After that is about how the ruling Catholic church reacted, anathemas, book burnings, violence, and outright refusal to do even the smallest change. And let us look at how the fandom reacted; anathemas, review burnings, verbal violence and outright refusal to admit that there might be that kernel of truth in what Puppies say. In both cases, it is all about lack of self-criticism and control.

    As for the Most Holy Church of Worldcon, it is jab towards repeated remarks how there is a right way to do things, and how what the ‘Puppies’ did was not. You know the; ‘It was legal, but against the spirit argument.’ Not mention that were I to loan the words of GRRM; ‘there is fandom and there is Fandom.’ You know, the one true and the Most Holy Church of Worldcon. In a way these are additional parallels to the Protestant Reformation.

    And let us face it, there was two Slates. One for Sad Puppies and one for the Rabid Puppies. Similar in content, but with their differences. During the Protestant Reformation; there was not just one group of protestants. There were several with varying degrees of Protestant Reformation.

    And although it is a slightly longer stretch; the Protestant Reformation was about having the Bible in a language the people read, while the ‘Puppies’ wished to nominate and award works that the people read.

    Hence that is the tangent where I am coming from.

    But got to admit; the earlier bit was just five minute effort.

    Next:

    @Whym: http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=5#comment-275939
    Scalzi? Okay, lets talk about his Redshirts. My complaint on that Hugo award winning work of literature is as follows: It is a play script that saw the least effort in its conversion into a novel. This is most prominently visible by the sheer number of sentences ending with; ‘said.’ Thus for me as someone who enjoys reading play scripts, Scalzi’s Redshirts is not far from being a literal pile of grey goo.

    I guess that was all the comments I generated this time around.

  18. @Gabriel F: http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=5#comment-275936

    “Except we know that’s emphatically not true. For satire to work, there has to be a kernal of truth in it.”

    Emphatically, it is a funny word indeed; “Except we know that is in a forceful way not true.”

    Usually it is the authoritarians who insist on ‘forceful’ truths, often in tangent with totalitarian systems. And a prime example of such would be the Catholic Church before the Protestant Reformation. As for the kernel of truth in satire, it goes unnoticed if the reader is without that ounce of self-criticism.

    Next.

  19. @Steven Schwartz: http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=5#comment-275937

    utterly accurate

    I am not sure if it was the intention, but you just made this ‘puppy’ roll on the floor laughing his arse off.

    I mean starting from the start of Mamatas’ comment; Puppy supporters are nothing short of beer drinking drunkards drunkenly following an intellectual caste of some kind. The mention of beer consumption is usually used to paint a mental image of how one group remains beneath oneself, and how one’s tastes remain superior. A statement often made in utter ignorance of the breath and range in the sheer variety of ‘beers.’ (At least compared to the far more limited flavours of vinegar.) (I drink neither.) As for the claim of intellectual caste, it normally refers to decades of academic merits. What we have, based on the earlier comment discussions; a former gun store owner, a deployed US soldier, and an individual whose academic merits have been severely questioned to say in the least. Not quite a bunch of the more traditional stereotype of an intellectual caste.

  20. Mamatas proceeds with a paragraph on the topic of democratic processes. Yet he appears oblivious to the fact how the ‘Bolsheviks’ were the only allowed political faction, whose followers were tied to vote according the wishes of the party leaders. It is quite a contrast to the ‘Puppy Slates’ that remain as binding as any demands presented on any blog. If you do not want to follow a list in its entirety, you do not have to. There are even ‘Rabid Puppies’ on record how they didn’t vote exactly as Vox hoped for. Therefore, as far as election processes go, a more fitting example would be found from the British Parliamentary Elections.

  21. “In any case, “steamboat” would not qualify as objectification, since there’s nothing sexual about it. (I thought it was funny, myself.)”

    Have you never seen a walking beam in action?

  22. @tuomas I would actually be interested in reading that, but there’s no way I’m clicking a link like that. WordPress.com blogs are free, FYI.

  23. Tuomas Vainio: You have just been entered in the Guinness Book of World Records for getting 18 consecutive comments robotically spammed by WordPress. Absolutely nothing in them is anything I filter for.

    I have posted what seems to be the longest verison. If there is anything else you said that doesn’t duplicate that comment, you might try posting that part again. Then either it will appear without a problem, or if I have to pull it out of the spampile at least I will be able to identify it as a fresh post.

  24. Tuomas:

    “Mamatas proceeds with a paragraph on the topic of democratic processes. Yet he appears oblivious to the fact how the ‘Bolsheviks’ were the only allowed political faction, whose followers were tied to vote according the wishes of the party leaders.”

    No. He’s simply aware of their history before October, 1917. Back when the Bolsheviks got their way by factional discipline rather actually having a democratic majority or control of the state.

  25. @Mike Glyer; http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=8#comment-276336

    No, not robotically. Just via my forehead it seems. After clicking submit, I did not end up seeing the expected “Comment Waiting for Moderation” – Blurb. So I thought, perhaps we have a broken button or something, or new post length limitations. (Not to mention some fishiness in the preview.)

    Ugh.

    Anyhow, there is nothing new past the: http://file770.com/?p=22933&cpage=8#comment-276288

    And that can be read instead of the Dropbox link.

    So yeah, going to crawl to bed or some such. Before I continue to hammer the ‘Post Comment’ nail.

  26. Are steamboats lesbian things now too? I’m getting really confused.

    If so that explains why they aren’t impressed by my chat up lines, no matter how hard I tip my Fedora towards the Texas deck.

  27. The crucial thing to understand about the Protestant Reformation, is that everyone was Catholic until the dissatisfaction towards how things were run reached a point that people took action to cause a change. There was dissatisfaction towards what works got nominated and won the award, and so we reached a point where people took action to cause a change.

    This is a fascinating view of history. So much simpler and easier to memorise than the one that happened on my planet, where all and sundry were dissenting with the Church and with each other, sometimes surviving (Waldese Church), sometimes being slaughtered (various heretic sects), sometimes being co-opted into the Church itself (the minorites). To say nothing, of course, of that great portion of humanity who was going around having their own religion happily and in total ignorance or indifference to the Catholic Church (the whole American Continent, most of Africa, all of Asia).

  28. Polite cough from the sides

    Ah yes, and I apologise to our Jewish friends for forgetting about them.

  29. I would like to repeat the call made earlier to repost the actual English language Ottawa Herald article and not this weird re-translation which makes Schmidt look incoherent (and like the Ottawa Herald can’t get the name of a 73 year old convention right.)

  30. Tuomas, things caught by the spam filter don’t appear with the awaiting moderation tag, they’re just invisible/gone until OGH Mike Glyer digs them out. Only stuff caught by the mod filter (which is not the spam filter) get that tag. Its a bit unnerving but there you go. I assume its a WordPress thing.

  31. Sure, Nick, if you’re making up sets, one set is bigger than others, but calling Leninists Marxists seems to me to be wrong in every way. I appreciate most puppies probably haven’t heard of Lenin but blaming Marx for what Lenin was on about makes about as much sense as blaming Heinlein for the existence of the puppies.

  32. Hi Guthrie,

    You seem to think I am conflating Marx and Lenin out of antipathy for both. Though these days I’d put myself in the autonomist camp, I don’t think Lenin’s organizational strategies were all that terrible given political conditions in Russia between 1903 and Lenin 1917. If you would like to have a very long and detailed discussion about it, I’m your man, but I suspect you do not.

  33. @Tuomas “This is most prominently visible by the sheer number of sentences ending with; ‘said.’ ”

    John Scalzi always writes like that. Old Man’s War is rife with it, to the point where it really started bugging me, and I otherwise liked the story. Of course, as Elmore Leonard noted, you never need any qualifier other than ‘said,’ but I personally prefer some dialogue-notes about expressions or physical movement (which can also aid with characterization) rather than a steady string of ‘saids.’

  34. >> In any case, “steamboat” would not qualify as objectification, since there’s nothing sexual about it. (I thought it was funny, myself.) >>

    Plus, if the blogger really is a steamboat, then aeou is committing womanification of an object.

    And object with a tragic past, too, that doesn’t deserve such disrespect.

    Remember: There is no I in aeou.

  35. redhead:
    >> John Scalzi always writes like that.>>

    This is not the first time Tuomas has been told this, but he is impervious to new information. Quite possibly because he hasn’t read most of the stuff he’s commenting on and is only gleaning and repeating criticisms from negative Amazon reviews and the inspired cant of his Puppy idols.

    Remember: There is no I in Tuomas. There are two in Vainio, though.

  36. If we’re going to insist on a protestant reformation analogy then I must say I’m wondering if there are any Henry VIIIs who, at the moment when he was refused a divorce that he really wanted, suddenly realised he had all kinds of principled objections to the Roman Catholic Church, and maybe that guy Luther had some good points.

  37. @NeilW “at the moment when he was refused a divorce that he really wanted, suddenly realised he had all kinds of principled objections to the Roman Catholic Church, and maybe that guy Luther had some good points.”

    So Larry Correia is Henry VIII?

  38. I see more than one candidate for Supreme Puppy in Earth of the Church Sad and Rabid.

    I find more interesting earlier criticisms heresies; Adam Roberts for example complaining in 2009 that the Hugo shortlist is too old-fashioned and (formally) conservative.

    Last year he was one of several who weighed in about how campaigning for awards was bad in general which was a bit of a fuss before SP2 and (later) the Hugo packet flaps.

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