50 Ways To Leave Your Rover 6/20

aka “I love the smell of puppy in the morning.”

In today’s roundup, Ed Fortune, David Gerrold, T.C. McCarthy, Daniel Haight, Natalie Luhrs, John C. Wright, Morgan Locke, Mick, Carl Henderson, Vox Day, Tom Knighton, Rolf Nelson, Kevin Standlee, Melina D, Lis Carey, Kurt Busiek, Fred Kiesche, Brad Johnson, and mysterious others. (Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editors of the day John King Tarpinian and Hampus Eckerman.)

Ed Fortune on Starburst

“Book Boycott Backfires” – June 20

An attempted boycott of publisher Tor Books by right-wing online activists has spectacularly backfired as booklovers across the world have responded by purchasing books from Tor to show their support. The activists in question are known as the Sad Puppies, or simply ‘The Puppies’. They recently gained notoriety by block voting in the recent Hugo Award nominations. The demands are in response to recent statements made by editors and authors who are associated with Tor in some way. Military sci-fi author Peter Grant issued a list of demands on behalf of The Puppies in a private letter that he then posted on his blog. The demands are:

Tor must publicly apologize for writings by Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, Moshe Feder, Irene Gallo, and John Scalzi that “demonize, denigrate, slander and lie about the ‘Puppies’ campaigns”

Tor must “publicly reprimand those individuals for stepping over the line”

Tor must “publicly indicate that it is putting in place policies to prevent any recurrence of such issues.” Despite original Sad Puppy campaigner Larry Correia stating on his blog “The Sad Puppies Campaign is NOT calling for any boycotts, the letter was later endorsed by prominent members of The Puppies, including Theodor Beale (aka Vox Day) and John C. Wright. The Puppies now seem mostly leaderless, operating in a way similar to other online activists such as Gamer Gate and Anonymous have done in the past.

The response from the greater community has mostly been mockery, and to do their best to support authors by purchasing books from Tor


David Gerrold on Facebook – June 20

With the various escalations over perceived hurts, it seems that this is no longer about the Hugos — it looks more like an attempt to ignite a full-scale culture war within the genre.

Certainly, there is a lot of polarization evident in the various blogs and comment threads. But while the online discussions seem to present a picture of equal sides, I think that’s an illusion. It may turn out that the larger body of fandom will not be stampeded by the few who have become addicted to outrage.

Some of the most offensive posts — some of which are being widely circulated — will only serve to further marginalize not only the authors of those posts, but also those who are seen as comrades.



Daniel Haight on Flotilla Online

“Too Soon? How Should Sci-Fi Authors Deal with Tragedy?” – June 20

I felt compelled to speak up when another author linked to the above post made by the sci-fi author Michael Z. Williamson.  I found that Mr. Williamson’s Facebook is public and I was able to confirm that he did say what he said and that it’s still visible (as of today, 6/20 @ 10:05PDT)

I immediately felt a number of conflicting emotions: shock and revulsion at the tactless joke that was made. Sadness that we have become so inured to senseless violence that people are rushing to be the first one to find a way to joke about it. Confusion at whether I had a right to say anything, knowing I’ve made a few dark jokes from time to time. Uncertainty about whether it was my business to speak up.

And yet … a joke like that … made the same day the Charleston shooting occurred.  I can’t keep my mouth shut about that.  Innocent people died.  Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters … hundreds of lives ripped apart by a senseless act of violence.  That’s not hyperbole, those people’s lives are inexorably altered and potentially ruined. You … you can joke about that?

I can’t.


Natalie Luhrs on Pretty Terrible

“Documenting a Wannabe Supervillain” – June 20

I don’t care if you think they’re jokes. And I know full well what kind of context they’re coming from, when your Twitter feed is full of you taunting people who are grieving and angry over an act of terrorism perpetrated against their community and you have pictures of yourself with guns and your Facebook profile pic is pro-waterboarding. I know exactly what kind of asshole you are and you can’t slither out of responsibility for your words because you think they’re jokes. You are a hateful, vile, and pathetic human being, Michael Z. Williamson.

And Williamson’s Hugo-nominated work, “Wisdom from My Internet” is execrable. It should never have made it to the ballot–and it wouldn’t have, if the Puppies hadn’t gamed the system with coordinated slates.


John C. Wright

“Moshe Feder Speaks for Himself” – June 20

He has decided publicly to rebuff those customers Mr Feder calls our customers unhappy with the recent unprofessional antics at Tor Books by the charming epithet “idiots”:

As you may have heard, certain scoundrels have declared a boycott of Tor, starting today, to protest the efforts of some Tor employees to defend the Hugo Awards from attack. In response, some of our friends have declared today “Buy A Tor Book Day.”

I wouldn’t have the temerity to ask you to buy a book just because some idiots have declared war on us. But if there _is_ a Tor Book you’ve been meaning to get anyway, buying it today would be a a gesture I’d appreciate.

[As always here on Facebook, I’m speaking for myself and not the company.]

Ah… Well, thank you for your help mollifying our customers, Mr Feder. I am sure that being told they are idiots will make them eager to spend their hard earned book-buying dollars the product you and I are working together to produce for them….

Since I have a conflict of interest, I must remain neutral. Loyalty to my publisher demands I not take sides. Loyalty to my beloved customers demands I not take sides.

Mr Feder has taken sides. Loyalty to his political correctness outweighs, for him, loyalty to publisher. And he just called you, my dear readers and customers, idiots and scoundrels.

This has nothing to do with the Sad Puppies. We are only here for the Hugo Awards.

This particular fight is between, on the one hand, those at Tor Books who think political correctness outweighs all professional and personal loyalties, all standards of decency, all need to be truthful, and who damn their own customers; and, on the other, those who are thankful to the customers and who think the purpose of a business is business.

One side consists of those calling for the resignations that any professional worthy of the name would long ago have proffered for the damage they have done to the company name and public goodwill.

The other side consists of people at Tor who regard Tor as an instrument of social engineering, an arm of the Democrat Party’s press department, or a weapon in the war for social justice.

Without expressing any personal opinion, I can say that there is an easy compromise which our free and robust capitalistic system allows: we can all wish the best to Miss Gallo and Mr Feder when they day comes when they decide to take their interests and obsessions elsewhere, and leave the company in the hands of those of us who merely want to write, publish, and read science fiction told from any and every point of view, political or otherwise, provided the story is well crafted.



Mick on Mick On Everything

“I Support The Tor Boycott” – June 20

There is plenty of evidence that they’ve been lying to you internally, if in fact they are telling you that those of use who’ve been e-mailing the company are bots as has been rumored.

There is plenty of evidence that they won’t stop, and even though they are now careful to state they don’t speak for Tor, without their positions they wouldn’t have nearly the platform or audience they do. These people are trading on the status the company gave them to trash the customer base, and the authors who actually produce the work.

The originator of the Sad Puppies movement, the International Lord of Hate Larry Correia, has come out and said he does not endorse the boycott. I reiterate – I do. Those of us on the Puppy side have taken enough abuse from the other side, and it’s time we hit them in the wallet.

If someone starts a fight and you don’t fight back, you lose. They started it years ago. Now is time to fight back.


Carl Henderson on Offend Everyone

“In Which I Speak of Sad Puppies.” – June 20

I’m a supporter of free speech—which ideally extends beyond the 1st Amendment protections against Government interference or suppression of speech. We as a society and individuals need to cultivate tolerance for opinions we disagree with.

Ms Gallo should not be fired. While her original Facebook remarks were mean-spirited and showed contempt for Tor readers and Tor authors, employers should not purge employees for having unpopular views. They may have a legal right to (depending on state laws and contracts), but they should not because: 1) the organization becomes captive to the loudest and most easily offended of their stakeholders, and 2) free speech is an objective good that writers and publishers should support, even when that speech is unpopular, or even considered hateful.

I think that calls for Tor to fire Gallo to be are wrong. Her remarks on Facebook were hateful and intolerant. But contributing to the culture of demanding punishment whenever anyone says anything offensive is counter to the Sad Puppy goal of more intellectual/political diversity in SF and Fantasy (as well the main goal supporting the primacy of good story over message). If you like a book/writer published by Tor, buy it. If you don’t, don’t buy it. In the long run, the free market will prevail and Tor (like any other company that doesn’t get the government to bail it out) will either change or die.

The justifications I hear from some people involved in Sad Puppies for supporting a Tor boycott or a campaign to have Gallo fired, generally run along these lines of “our opponents use these tactics, so we have to as well”. (I’m oversimplifying. Duh.)

But there’s an important point that those Puppies are missing. People like Gallo are good for your side. The louder and more extreme your opponents get, the better you look. And the better you look, the more support you gain.


Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Mr. Feder fans the flames” – June 20

It’s worth pointing out that we are not at war with Tor Books. We are merely asking Macmillan to save Tor Books from the observably self-destructive and unprofessional leadership of three of its senior employees, who have abused Tor’s authors and attacked Tor’s customers.


Tom Knighton

“Thoughts on the TOR boycott” – June 20

Tor, for some silly reason, is one of many traditional publishers that look at ebooks as a novelty and has them priced in a way to encourage you to buy the print book instead.  I hate that.  There are books I want to read, but I’m not spending more than $10 for a brand new ebook, and I expect that price to drop as time goes on.  Tor’s starting point, so to speak, is so much higher than I want to spend that I don’t really see me buying much of anything anyways.

Honestly, I can’t really boycott someone I don’t buy from in the first place.  I may have yet another reason to not buy Tor books, but it’s not like they’ll notice my lack of spending on their books.  Now, that’s not true for a lot of my Sad Puppy brethren, but it is for me.

Some are screaming that it’s not fair to try and “destroy” someone’s livelihood over comments they made a month earlier on their personal Facebook page.  I’ll buy that when the Left quits trying to destroy the livelihood of everyone who says something they disagree with.

I don’t want Irene Gallo fired necessarily.  I haven’t called for anyone from Tor to be fired.  The only person whose job I called for was the twit who wrote the Entertainment Weekly article, and that wasn’t because of her personal views, it was because she is an embarrassment to journalism.  It’s as simple as that.

That’s not to say that there aren’t a few people from Tor I’d love to see hunting for a job.  There are.  I hear those people get fired, and it’s party central at the Knighton household.  They’ve insulted me and my friends so many times that I really don’t care about how they’ll manage in today’s job market.


Wheels Within Wheels

“Boycott in progress” – June 20

I won’t be acquiring any more, though. Tor gives every impression of having a corporate culture that despises anyone who isn’t wholly on board with the left-wing causes of the day, and is more than willing to demonize them. As that applies to me, since they despise me, I’ll not force them to associate with me any longer.


Rolf Nelson

“Tor Boycott” – June 19

Gee, I can just feel the love from here. Details at Vox’s blog, Peter Grant’s place, Hoyt’s, and many other places in the SF/F blog-o-sphere. So, if you like SF, keep reading, but but use the library. If you think you just must buy your favorite Tor author, buy used and hit their tip-jar. Or, check out competing publishers like Baen or Castalia House, which don’t treat their authors and fan base like crap.



Kevin Standlee on Fandom Is My Way Of Life

“E Pluribus Hugo Submitted” – June 20

As presiding officer, I obviously won’t take a stance on the proposal; however, its very complexity requires me to be concerned about how to handle it technically at the Business Meeting. It will probably depend on how much more business gets submitted. It’s proposals like this that lead me to planning for WSFS to hold a Sunday (final day) business meeting for the first time since 1992.



Melina D on Subversive Reader

“Hugos 2015 Mini Review: The Lego Movie” – June 21

I was watching along enjoying it, but thinking that there wasn’t really anything deeper to the movie, and then it turns around and hits me in the feels.The ‘twist’ at the end was unexpected and definitely added another element to the movie, but it also raises some questions (for me anyway) about the purpose of adult collectors of toys. I come from a family of these (my grandparents actually ran a toy museum when I was a kid) so maybe I think about these things when others don’t, but should toys be played with or preserved?


Melina D on Subversive Reader

“Hugos 2015 Reading: Related Works” – June 20 So, the best of this category was better than I expected, but the worst was much worse than expected. I will use No Award in this category, because I don’t think any of the writing was polished or completely engaging enough to win an award as prestigious as the Hugo. However, I’ll list The Hot Equations next, as it was a mostly cohesive piece of writing which showed clear links to SF fiction.

This is where the slate is once again doing themselves a disservice, because it’s possible in another year The Hot Equations might have been in their amongst the top pieces. It’s the kind of thing I was expecting/hoping to find in the nominations – work on topics which aren’t usually my cup of tea (milSF and thermodynamics) which are good enough to engage me and make me think. But because there’s nothing to compare it with, I have to judge it on its own – create my own criteria – which leaves a possibility that I’m being harder on it than it deserves. And there’s such a lot of energy spent on promoting the really bad writing which could be spent on promoting and polishing and presenting more work like this.


Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“Abyss & Apex: Hugo-Nominated Magazine of Speculative Fiction” – June 20

Abyss & Apex is a 2015 Hugo nominee for Best Semiprozine. It’s a web-based zine publishing a mix of poetry and fiction. I was very pleased to see that they have organized and accessible archives that made it easy to look at their issues from 2014. i.e., the relevant ones for this year’s Hugos. Overall, the quality looks high, and the presentation is good. My one objection is that the body text font doesn’t seem to be completely consistent across the site, and for me, that makes it a smidge less reasonable. In total, though, I’m favorably impressed.





603 thoughts on “50 Ways To Leave Your Rover 6/20

  1. It was the metaphors that knocked by suspension of disbelief meter off the scale in Turncoat. Specifically that the AI found ‘today’ worthy of discourse on the nature of time but let ‘blistering speed’ pass without even a comment regarding feet or lack thereof.

  2. Thank you to everyone who suggested books my husband! (Although he doesn’t know about the MLP fanfic yet…)

    Simon Bisson and Lorcan Nagle: he says he was specifically looking for books that addressed the Fermi Paradox so an extra BIG thank you to both of you for your suggestions. He’s been a happy man all evening, following up all the recommendations. There were only 3 that we already had so the odds are good that several suggestions will be just right for him.

    And also thank you to everyone who recommended Uprooted by Naomi Novik. I started it last night and it’s fantastic! My birthday book vouchers have run out now, alas. I burned through them rather quickly thanks to these rec threads…

  3. Wes S. —

    [..] up till now Wright has been a voice of reason in all of this, [..]

    I’m dreadfully behind tonight, but I just want to comment that more and more I find myself reading Wright’s pronouncements with the voice of Lord Haw-Haw in my head.

    Not to say that Wright is a miserable traitor propagandising for the forces of evil, just that the tone of haughty, wordy, educated-beyond-his-level superciliousness combines well with the self-contradiction and lack of adherence to reality to produce something that reads a lot like German radio propaganda of World War II sounded.

    So, “voice of reason”? No. Just no.

  4. Shambles on June 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm said:

    Is there a proposal to show the nominations that missed the ballot before the vote casting ? That might be interesting at least as we weather the slate years.

    AFAIK that happens every year regardless – there usually a full report on nominations after the awards are done for the year.

  5. Hugo nominees – Novella

    I’m No Awarding the whole category so far. Nothing to be listed after NA. I’ll try one more time with Wright’s submissions because I made-up a rule for myself if I bounce off a candidate to give it 3 attempts…sometimes I’m in a different mood at a different time.

    1. Big Boys Don’t Cry – This could have been a decent story (but failed at even that). The idea is nothing new, but excellence of execution or innovation or even cracking good story-telling could have earned a Hugo nod. I’ve read some of Laumer’s and Weber’s Bolo stories and really enjoyed many of them. This one isn’t in the same league, it’s just badly written and edited. Following are my observations added to the many other reviews I’ve seen.

    One of the many problems is jumping from Maggie’s POV/inner dialogue to third person to describe different parts of the same vignette with no information given by third person that wouldn’t have been better given by Maggie’s POV. It breaks up the narrative and tends to prevent eliciting sympathy/understanding for Maggie’s character. There was also way too much telling instead of showing whether from first or third person. I know that can be an overused criticism, but in this case I think it’s apt. It all added up to a story where I couldn’t immerse myself without constant “Hunh? That’s a lousy sentence/paragraph/description. Why did that happen (ie, overwhelming pain circuits for a combat AI!)? What a cardboard character. Why would they leave the AI conscious?, etc., etc., etc.”

    2. Flow – Sorry, I can’t even work up enough enthusiasm to critique this one. Boring x 27. Couldn’t stay in the story more than a couple of sentences without my mind wandering off to what bills need to be paid, my foot itches, where did I put the cats’ flea treatment, etc. After the third bounce, I gave up.

  6. S1A1

    It’s always difficult to politely explain to people who have never experienced combat, much less survived a stint as a slave on the Death Railway, that war isn’t the way they think it is. My father didn’t; he would nod, and turn the conversation to the classic RAF line shooting – there I was, upside down, nothing on the clock but the makers name – because the truth is much bleaker than any armchair warrior can ever imagine.

    Unfortunately biologists seem to be even more prone to that particular fantasy than the average guy; geneticists, on the other hand, ie real cutting edge science now, don’t do that. No doubt in another decade or so it will get into the realms of popular science, which should improve the quality of SF, but in the meantime I ignore it because if I want to know about genetics I ask my daughter, who does know what she’s talking about.

    As for the combination of bloodthirsty and self admiring, it is certainly an accurate description of the Japanese before and during WWII. The difficulty with that argument is that they lost…

  7. I’m sure I’m not the first person to point this out, but — is Beale simply UNAWARE of the existence of the great civlization of ancient Egypt? Or does he not realize that Egypt is a part of Africa?

  8. Camestros Felapton: I think Predestination with Ethan Hawke was a film that got goodish reviews. I haven’t seen it for various reasons (missed it at the cinema, family wanted to watch other stuff at other times etc) but it was on my list of things-to-watch-but-didn’t.

    Shambles: I had not heard of this film, thank you ! The Heinlein connection is ironic. Doubly so at this point if you consider the biography.

    Jack Lint: No one in the US saw Predestination. It only played in 20 theaters and was in release for about three weeks.

    Predestination had a limited release in several countries in 2014. However, its official release in the U.S. was January 9, 2015, and in the U.K. on February 13, 2015.

    A proposal to extend its eligibility for next year’s Hugos has been submitted for consideration for the WSFS Business Meeting (last one on the page here). I’ll be voting to pass it. The movie was very well done — it improved on the story, in my opinion (I actually had nominated it this year).

  9. Shambles: Is there a proposal to show the nominations that missed the ballot before the vote casting ? That might be interesting at least as we weather the slate years.

    Fred Davis: AFAIK that happens every year regardless – there usually a full report on nominations after the awards are done for the year.

    After the Hugo Awards presentation, the statistics and titles from nominations and voting are released. I would say that there is zero chance the administrators will be willing to release any of that information before the voting is complete and the winners have been announced.

  10. “They started it.”

    We started what, exactly? An award celebrating the best in science fiction? And this hurt some folks’ feelings so badly that we got this year’s crapload of nominations?

    In my head, I hear JCW saying ‘I’m not a bat wielder, as a Christian. But if I were a bat wielder, here is what I would…’

  11. +1 to recommends for “Predestination”.
    If I had seen it in time, I would have nominated it for this year’s Hugo. You really don’t need a huge special effects budget to make a great SF story.

  12. What about the Earth-Sun L-points?

    They’re not close to the Earth-Moon system. Remember, they’re 60 degrees of arc out, which means roughly two months of annual orbit. (They do contain space dust and one known asteroid.)

  13. Stevie – I’m… actually note sure what you’re trying to say with that or to what it is that you’re responding.

  14. “FungiFromYuggoth on June 21, 2015 at 3:27 pm said:
    You’re missing Beale’s dodge – he’s not arguing that black people are sub human, just that the people-he-likes are more evolved than baseline human. He thinks he’s being clever, and it speaks ill of the intellect and character of anyone who is impressed by that dodge. Especially if they’ve read his entire tirade.”

    Perhaps you don’t realize that Vox almost certainly knows that there is no such thing as more evolved. Didn’t you read your SJ Gould? There are only organisms that are better equipped (selected) for one environment or another. Eg, West African males are better at running the 100M sprint than any other males, while Northern European males are better at mathematics and science …

    “This is the essence of Beale – to weasel and imply while building a half-assed trick, and then to point and laugh at the people who understand what he’s actually saying, trying to claim that he’s the truly smart one.”

    From where I stand, you certainly don’t look that smart.

  15. McJulie:
    Egypt is part of why he continually phrases it as “sub-equatorial Africa.” The equator crosses Gabon, the Congo and Kenya, well south of Egypt.

  16. McJulie: I’m sure I’m not the first person to point this out, but — is Beale simply UNAWARE of the existence of the great civlization of ancient Egypt? Or does he not realize that Egypt is a part of Africa?

    Those Egyptians were all white, doncha know? Just look at that Taylor/Burton film, and the Yul guy in that Heston film.

  17. … up till now Wright has been the voice of treason … Did I read that right?

  18. McJulie

    Beale sticks with sub Saharan Africa on the basis that they are black; he would presumably claim that the Egyptians weren’t black and therefore don’t fall within his claims.

    Of course, it is impossible to fit the Nubian civilisation into this, because the Nubians were most definitely black, and most definitely had an advanced civilisation long before the time he is referring to.

    Unfortunately his ignorance of African history is matched by his ignorance of European history as well, not to mention,his ignorance of Asian history as well; much of Greater Greece was Asian.

    It would probably save wear and tear on our iPads if we just accepted that Beale is appallingly ignorant of history as the default state, and then anyone who comes up with an example of history that he’s not appallingly ignorant of will be able to note the exception to his default state.

  19. If Wright has been the voice of reason, reason has a much lower bar than I previously thought.

  20. As soon as we learned that humans in Europe and Asia had Neanderthal DNA but sub-Saharan Africans did not, it was extremely easy to predict that white supremacists would argue that Neanderthal DNA was an improvement. If the evidence had gone the other way, of course, they would have argued just the opposite.

  21. fenella on June 21, 2015 at 3:49 pm said:
    Simon Bisson and Lorcan Nagle: he says he was specifically looking for books that addressed the Fermi Paradox so an extra BIG thank you to both of you for your suggestions. He’s been a happy man all evening, following up all the recommendations. There were only 3 that we already had so the odds are good that several suggestions will be just right for him.

    No problem. Of the Manifold trilogy I quite enjoyed Time and Space, but Origin let me down a little bit. The short story collection, Phase SPace was very good as well.

  22. May Tree, since you asked (yesterday) for more show tunes, I present the following:

    Officer Pupke


    Dear kindly Sergeant Pupke
    You gotta understand
    It’s just that we’re fed up-ke
    About our losing hand;
    The lefties run the ballot
    And us they underrate:
    Golly Moses, that’s why we’re a slate!


    Officer Pupke, we’re really upset
    Our writing never got the love that it ought to get.
    We’re not really rabid, we’re misunderstood –
    Deep down, our books are pretty good.


    There’s some good!


    There is good, there is good
    There is unread good!
    In the worst of us, there is some good.

    VOX (Spoken):

    That’s a touchin’ good story.

    CORREIA (Spoken):

    I’d like to tell it to the world!

    VOX (Spoken):

    Just tell it to the judge.


    Dear kindly judge, your Honor,
    My buddies need a chance:
    They’ve not been nominated
    And asked to join the dance.
    Minorities and women
    Have got this thing sewn up:
    Leapin’ lizards, that’s why I’m a Pup!

    VOX (as Judge):

    Officer Pupke, you’re really a fraud;
    This guy don’t need a judge, he needs a Hugo award.
    Those glittery hoo-has have got to be curbed
    He’s literarily disturbed.


    I’m disturbed!


    We’re disturbed, we’re disturbed
    We’re the most disturbed
    Like, we’re literarily disturbed.

    VOX (as Judge, spoken):

    In the opinion of the Court, this Pup is depraved on account of he ain’t had an award.


    I’m depraved on account of I’m deprived!


    So take ‘em both to a headshrinker. Me too!


    John Scalzi is a bastard
    And Gallo is the worst;
    By Nielsen I’ve been laughed at,
    By Feder I’ve been cursed.
    Just ‘cause I don’t like women
    They won’t give me a break:
    Goodness gracious, that’s why I’m a snake!

    CORREIA (as Psychiatrist):

    Yes! Officer Pupke, you’re really a beast;
    This guy don’t need a shrink, he needs his book sales increased.
    He sucks as a writer, his prose isn’t slick –
    That’s why his bottom line is sick!


    I am sick!


    We are sick, we are sick,
    We are sick, sick, sick
    We just game the system ‘cause we’re sick.

    CORREIA (as Psychiatrist, spoken):

    In my opinion, this guy don’t need to have his head shrunk at all. Misogyny and delusions of grandeur are purely a social disease!

    VOX (Spoken):

    Hey, I got a social disease!

    CORREIA (Spoken):

    So take him to a social worker! And take that one too – the one mooning over that fourteen-year-old girl in the window!


    Dear kindly social worker,
    The Morlocks have me down:
    They mock my holy fury,
    They think that I’m a clown.
    I mention tire-irons,
    And they all think I’m bad:
    Gloryosky! That’s why I’m a Sad!

    HOYT (As Female Social Worker):

    Eek! Officer Pupke, you’re really a punk.
    This boy don’t need some sales, he should be trashed with the junk.
    It ain’t out of context or misunderstood;
    Deep down inside him, he’s no good!


    I’m no good!


    We’re no good, we’re no good!
    We’re no earthly good,
    Like the best of us is no damn good!

    VOX (As Judge):

    The trouble is we’re crazy.

    CORREIA (As Psychiatrist):

    The trouble is no guts.

    HOYT (As Female Social Worker):

    Our writing’s kind of lazy.


    Our politics are nuts.


    We won’t give a straight answer.


    Our outbursts we won’t own:


    Pupke, won’t you just leave us alone!

    Gee, Officer Pupke,
    We’re down on our knees
    ‘Cause no one likes a fella with a verbal disease.
    Gee, Officer Pupke,
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Pupke,
    Pup you!

  23. “Brian Z’s dislike of EPH boils down to hating something produced by the folk on Making Light.”

    That may be, but reading all his comments on this post (and having seen almost all the ones he’s made in the last few weeks), my overwhelming impression is that his dislike is down to the fact EPH will be effective. He sounds increasingly desperate, making emotional arguments, arguing ad hominem about that horrible Scalzi person, and so on, and that hasn’t been a feature of his commenting up to now. He’s dropped the facade of genial humour and is now outright lying and attacking.

    So the puppies are worried because slates will be history if EPH works. Which sounds like the best reason to adopt it, even if a different, even more effective system replaces it in the future.

  24. “As far as I can make it (and that’s not far) means that Nora is subhuman, but Brad’s wife is not, because I said so that’s why.”

    In other words, Brad’s wife is okay, because she’s not like those other darkies? No racist ever made a remark like that, ever.

  25. S1AL @ 4.22 pm

    You say you do not understand what I was trying to say. Unfortunately you neglected to identify the post which caused you bewilderment, which is distinctly unhelpful if you are actually trying to have a dialogue. Particularly with someone who lives in a different time zone to your own; it’s now 0.1.10 am in England and I need sleep…

  26. Jonathan, that was most excellent!

    I agree with Ann’s reading of Brian’s opposition to EPH. I get the feeling that Brian wants the cudgel of slates there to make the rest of us be nicer.

  27. I don’t actually give a flying lizard turd what Beale says.

    Decent people, if they say something hurtful, apologize. They don’t devote their time to coming up with ways to say something that looks hurtful BUT WAIT YOU TOOK OFFENSE BUT LOOK WHERE I PUT THIS COMMA HA HA THAT MEANS I’M SMARTER THAN YOU. That’s asinine and most of us grew out of it when we were nine and we learned that yelling “I’m not touching you!” in the backseat cut no ice with Mom.

    Beale hasn’t, but given what I’ve seen of his work, presumably he doesn’t have any other skills to get attention with.

    If Torgersen wants to pal around with that, he knows full well what he’s doing. His relationship with his wife is none of my damn business. She also knows what she’s doing, and if I’m giving Irene Gallo the benefit that she knows Sad Puppies, I’ll give Mrs. Torgersen the same.

  28. Stevie – I was referring to your rather wandering commentary on the nature of war the explaining of it to various persons.

  29. @Beyond Anon

    What does it feel like to be a defender of a child murderer apologist? Do you ever feel a twinge of guilt or doubt or is it all sociopathic certainty?

  30. Which is not even remotely the same thing.

    Yes. It is clear that what Beale is actually saying is much worse than simply saying black people like Jemisin are subhuman.

  31. Perhaps you don’t realize that Vox almost certainly knows that there is no such thing as more evolved.

    You are a hundred percent correct … because he largely reject evolution and advocates the position of young Earth creationism.

  32. @Chris Hensley – Wait, young earth? But he’s always talking about Neanderthals, and they died out approximately 28k years ago. That’s before the Young Earth was even created!

  33. S1AL

    It was trying to be polite to you, since it is very, very obvious that you are what people call a civilian who has no understanding whatsoever of what war, combat, slavery, are like. I was trying, in other words, to be polte to you and the other people who also have no idea whatsoever of these things at the sharp end.

    Clearly trying to find some way of responding politely, when the straight truthful answer is ‘you haven’t a clue what you are talking about’ is not a good tactic with you. In future, I’ll stick to the straight truthful answer, without trying to spare your feelings.

  34. NelC: I’m dreadfully behind tonight, but I just want to comment that more and more I find myself reading Wright’s pronouncements with the voice of Lord Haw-Haw in my head.

    🙂 I read him with the voice of Doctor Smith from Lost In Space. I recommend it. Seriously.

  35. > “John Scalzi’s post on the proposal to remove Best Novelette is pretty good.”

    That post articulates some of the problems I have with that proposal quite well.

  36. Laura Resnick: Wow, that is hilarious! Now I’m wondering where that clause came from…

    In at least one case I know of, it was used to try and keep a particularly contentious author in line. I also suspect, as you alluded, that it hooks in with authors that have book tours, etc. It strikes me as not unlike morals clauses in other contracts.

  37. Stevie – I’m afraid you’ve mixed up a statement someone else made with one of mine. I said nothing about the nature of war at all. But feel free, by all means, to respond to whatever statement it is that you think I made without regards for my feelings. I’m not going to be hurt by the opinion of an internet random.

  38. Jonathan:

    Extra “Noo Yawk” points for rhyming “fraud” and “award.”

  39. Casey L – Thank you very much! I will order this when I get home.

    It’s Father’s Day in the US and I am watching the US Open with my dad.

  40. NelC on June 21, 2015 at 3:52 pm said:
    … the tone of haughty, wordy, educated-beyond-his-level superciliousness …

    I’ll grant you haughty and supercilious, but take it from someone who’s hung around some serious academics, Wright doesn’t come across as particularly well educated. He sounds like someone trying to imitate pop culture depictions of what educated people sound like.

  41. Camestros Felapton : (e.g. publish MilSF Brony work for those who like guns, spaceship battles and boot-camp stories but set in the My-Little-Pony universe**)

    [**I don’t think this is a real sub-genre…]

    Until now, my friend, until now.

    Years from now, when “Battlestar Equestria” has gone for six seasons and a movie, this is where historians will say it started.

  42. He sounds like someone trying to imitate pop culture depictions of what educated people sound like.

    I will use a phrase that was originally coined to describe Newt Gingrich: He’s a dumb person’s idea of what a smart person sounds like.

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