The 2021 Worldcon committee has notified members that under DisCon III’s COVID Policy they will require proof of completed vaccination, and that masks must be worn at the con. They also have posted a FAQ with more information.
The committee distributed the following release to members and the press:
Worldcon is more than just a convention: it is a community. As such, we all have a duty to protect each other and to protect our friends, families, and peers.This has been true from the very first Worldcon in 1939, and it remains true today.
At DisCon III, we aim to continue this tradition of providing a welcoming, supportive, and safe environment for all members of the science fiction and fantasy community. We have a responsibility to provide and maintain a safe convention experience for everyone from members and volunteers to staff and hotel employees and even to the community at large. We can’t protect from every danger, but we can do our best to protect from infectious conditions that are lessened by effective vaccination programs.
Our COVID-19 policy is intended to comply with all applicable laws. It is based upon guidance provided by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and created in consultation with epidemiologists who are familiar with conventions and fandom. We will continue to follow developments, revise the policy as necessary, and communicate any updates or changes with members. Find our COVID-19 FAQ here.
“The health and safety of the Worldcon community is our first concern. We all are yearning to reconnect with each other, to be able to see each other, and gather together because of our passion for the world of science fiction. We need to do it in a way that protects all of us,” said Mary Robinette Kowal, DisCon III Chair. “The Covid-19 policy was created with input from our community and health experts.”
“I was relieved to hear about this policy, since while it would be nice for my kids to be able to attend, it’s far more important to me that I don’t bring anything home with me to my unvaccinated kids,” said Malka Older, one of the M.C.s for the Hugo Award Ceremony.
The following is the current official DisCon III Policy related to preventing the spread of COVID-19:
1. Mandatory: Proof of Completed Vaccination
To attend any aspect of DisCon III in person, members and guests of DisCon III must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 by December 1st with a course of vaccination approved for human use as a COVID vaccine in the country in which the vaccine was received, including authorization for emergency use. Each such person must present proof of vaccination, and attendees over the age of 18 must show a photo identification matching the name shown on the proof of vaccination. There are no exceptions.
2. Mandatory: Masks must be worn.
COVID-19 vaccines are an important tool to help stop the pandemic, but they don’t mean we can stop taking all precautionary measures. Properly worn masks covering nose and mouth are required for all convention members and guests in all convention spaces, except when actively eating or drinking. Failure to comply is a Code of Conduct violation and may be subject to disciplinary action. Clear masks will be provided to facilitate accessibility to panelists, event participants, and certain staff and volunteers in key positions.
3. Recommended: DC Covid-19 Tracker App
To help make people aware if a COVID-19 exposure is discovered at the convention, members and guests are encouraged to download and install the DC Covid Tracker app.
4. Refund Policy
Members who cannot or choose not to get vaccinated may request that their current attending membership be converted to a supporting or virtual membership, consistent with the convention’s existing refund policies.
As of this writing, children under 12 are not currently eligible for vaccination. We recognize that children aged 5-11 may become eligible for vaccination prior to the convention, and so we are allowing a full refund for children under 12. Further, we are extending the refund cut-off to December 1 for those children and their families to allow them time to delay their decision in hope that expanded eligibility will permit them to attend. However, due to all of the uncertainties, we are making the difficult decision that DisCon III will not offer on-site childcare.
We understand some individuals may still have questions about the COVID-19 vaccine. We recommend visiting the CDC’s page Myths and Facts About COVID-19 Vaccines for more information.
Please visit our FAQ if you have any questions about this policy (or contact us at [email protected] if you have questions not answered by the FAQ).
The DisCon III community wishes that this policy was not necessary, but the safety of our members and volunteers, and the safety of our hotel staff, is our responsibility. Thank you for understanding why we have felt compelled to make these difficult decisions, and thank you for joining with us to do your part to keep our community and those around us safe.
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R.B.: I get that an unvaccinated person is more infectious than a vaccinated person and some people who test negative are positive. The question is to what extent is the risk of infection to a vaccinated person increased by allowing people who have tested negative into Discon?
The answer to that is that the risk of infection to vaccinated persons – as well as to unvaccinated persons – is significantly greater than it is if only vaccinated persons are allowed. And that’s where DisCon III has chosen to draw the line.
To insist that the difference between the two is negligible is untrue and disingenuous.
R.B.: I’m still not convinced that the marginal increase in safety to vaccinated people from false-negative people is worth turning members away.
This is me and several thousand other people, caring about how much you’re convinced:
@R.B.–
What a vile thing to say. And dishonest, too.
DisCon III has a contract. They signed that contract, and are legally obligated by it. The hotel isn’t willing to let them out of it, and the convention isn’t able to cover that $400,000 obligation without an in person event.
Legally, defaulting on the contract would only affect DisCon III. In reality, though, it would affect all of, at least, worldcon fandom. Nobody outside of worldcon fandom understands how it’s organized or how it works. The next worldcon in the US that needs to sign contracts with facilities will have to explain that default, if it happens. We’d be dealing with it for years to come.
DisCon III is going ahead with an in person event that it can’t get out of, and organized it as safely as possible. And you are bitching and moaning about them having put more emphasis on safety than you approve, or perhaps find personally convenient–and also sneer at them for, also according to you, “putting money before people’s lives.”
Just STFU, before you dig in even deeper.
R.B. asks Cat, what about the same day test? Why can’t they test people at the con?
Sure if you want to pay for the set and have a person there doing the testing. But keeping in mind that anyone infected will infect people while they wait for the test to come back even if they’re masked up as they’re still a risk.
But why? R.B., just get the damn vaccination. Stop stop screwing around around and get jabbed. Then you can attend anything you want without any hassles what-do-ever. Otherwise as Lis put it, STFU once and for all.
People can test negative for at least two days after starting to shed virus. A negative test is in no way a guarantee of being virus-shedding-free, and the viral load of an unvaccinated virus-shedding person is much higher than a vaccinated person.
We have already covered this. I’m not interested in doing it a third time.
There is an issue being raised on Twitter of peeps whose ID might not match: Specifically, but not exclusively, trans and non-binary people. Mary Robinette Kowal has said that they’re looking into resolving it.
@Cat
Not going to DisCon, but if the boosters are 8 months after, I might not qualify until January. People are still getting first and second shots.
Cat, whether you care or not, I’ve been fully vaccinated since April.
Lis, In a word, no.
As far as Worldcon fandom, I understand how it works very well. I really think the problem is pass-through funds. Each Worldcon is its own committee. There are already committees with it’s own contract for 2022. The bidding committees have agreements in place with their facilities for 2023, hopefully good ones but we’ve seen maybe not so much. How a default would play out going for future cons isn’t certain but I do agree it wouldn’t be a good thing.
That’s why they made the decision they made to go in-person despite the risks. And, Lis, you may not like me putting it that way, but yeah, they did. They decided that the consequences to Worldon of defaulting were worse than the risk members might contract COVID. We make decisions like this every time we get behind the wheel of a car.
JJ,
If, as was said earlier, unvaccinated people are unvaccinated because they want to be, to what extent is their increased likelihood of infection Discon’s problem?l Everywhere they go, they have an increased chance of getting COVID.
P J Evans says to me Nor going to DisCon, but if the boosters are 8 months after, I might not qualify until January. People are still getting first and second shots.
I’m not sure how rigorous the eight month rule is going to be applied. If that is true, my booster won’t be until December 2nd. At any rate, I don’t get a say in the scheduling which will be done by Martin’s Point. The last four years has taught me that it’s far easier just to go with the flow when it comes to such medical matters.
Because as previously mentioned, COVID tests can have a false negative rate of as much as 20%. That is for ACTUALLY INFECTED PEOPLE who HAVE a viral load that SHOULD be high enough to detect. This does not include people who have been so recently infected that they have too low a viral load for a test to pick up. The two groups together? Oof.
Whereas, with vaccination? Obviously there are studies coming out continuously on the new variants, so the data is in flux and it seems that the longer ago you were vaccinated the higher the odds of breakthrough infection – but even in this study from last month, the odds seem to remain under 1% (though I am not a statistics expert, and welcome correction).
Over 20% risk is NOT equal to under 1% risk, to me. You insisting that IT IS SO equal requires some justification with links to actual facts instead of just repeating yourself and ignoring the information given to you. Otherwise you start to sound disingenuous…
Yeah, disingenuous like that. Address honestly the points I’ve made to you first, like WHY you think 20% risk of false negatives is equal to 1% risk of breakthrough infection, before I address your Gish Gallop.
R.B.: If, as was said earlier, unvaccinated people are unvaccinated because they want to be, to what extent is their increased likelihood of infection Discon’s problem?… We make decisions like this every time we get behind the wheel of a car.
There is no “We” here. You are not a part of this decision-making process. You are not entitled to be a part of this decision-making process. DisCon III has decided where to draw the line. If you don’t like that, you’re welcome to e-mail them and try to change their minds. I can tell you exactly how much effect that will have: none. But I’ll send my condolences to anyone staffing their Help inbox who has to deal with the disingenuousness and idiocy.
Choosing to take on one risk in no way obligates you to choose to take on a bigger risk.
It is a bullshit argument.
You can argue that you think they should be taking the bigger risk, you can argue that they shouldn’t even be taking the risk they’re taking, but you can’t have both.
And it is a bigger goddamn risk. It’s not negligible. It’s a stack of ways being unvaccinated puts yourself at risk, puts others at risk, puts their loved ones at home at risk, puts everyone travelling through the same hubs at risk: Unvaccinated people are more likely to catch it, which means they’re more likely to then infect others. Unvaccinated people generally have a much higher viral load, which in turn will make them sicker and make anyone they infect sicker. Shedding starts substantially before tests give positive results. Hospital beds fill up faster because more people are sick and those people are sicker. Mutations to make it more infectious or vaccine-resistant or deadlier start to happen. (DELTA.) Other everyday maladies are left with poorer healthcare because the resources are so badly strained.
These are not reasonable additional risks to expect your staff and attendees to take. These are not reasonable additional risks to expect anyone to take.
@R.B. If, as was said earlier, unvaccinated people are unvaccinated because they want to be, to what extent is their increased likelihood of infection Discon’s problem?l Everywhere they go, they have an increased chance of getting COVID.
And everywhere they go, they also have a greatly increased chance of spreading COVID. Why are you so adamant that Discon’s attendees should be exposed to that risk?
@R.B.–Some of us, not you, obviously, but some of us, worry about the people who have taken all the precautions, and turn out to be the rare cases who get a serious breakthrough infection from the willfully unvaccinated shedding a heavy virus load, and the medically vulnerable people they might innocently expose after WorldCon, whether they themselves get sick at all.
No one who is unvaccinated by choice is innocent in that scenario.
And, call me crazy, but the several people I’ve found myself discussing this with lately, who after several vigorous exchanges in which they insist no one should be barred from any crowded space “just because” they choose to be unvaccinated, suddenly announce that, oh, heavens no, they aren’t unvaccinated! Not at all! They just care about choice!…
For some reason I find myself a little skeptical.
@R.B.
If you are fully vaccinated, I don’t understand why you are so upset about DisCon’s vaccination policy. If you want to attend, you can. The policy only applies to those who are not vaccinated.
Personally, I think going fully virtual would have been better, but DisCon is in a shitty situation here. They can’t go fully virtual, because of their contract with the hotel. And it’s very likely that DisCon will end up in the red, because a lot of people won’t be attending due to the terrible timing or the fact that they still don’t feel safe travelling or due to travel bans and quarantine requirements (which can change very quickly, which is why I’m not planning any kind of travel now, because the rules can literally change, while you’re on the plane), etc…
Also, if someone does catch covid at the con, they might well decide to sue DisCon.Worldcon 76 caved to the nuissance lawsuit of the leading voice banned from Twitter and IMO the leading voice had zero grounds for sueing. Someone who does catch covid due to faulty safety measures has somewhat more ground to sue, even if IMO everybody who goes into a crowded setting right now should know that there is a risk (very slight if you’re vaccinated and careful) of catching covid. Still, I understand that Discon would rather be safe than sorry.
Not sure if this update was covered in this space:
https://www.dragoncon.org/updates/
STFU? Fine collegial debating style, that. Looks like we’ll be experiencing the most exclusionist, politically correct Worldcon in history. I hope the committee’s choices don’t result in it being the last Worldcon in history. I am sincerely sorry to see this kind of social devolution taking place in an activity field that used to predominantly be about having fun and solving the problems of society over beer at 3 a.m..
Steve Stanley: exclusionist, politically correct
Thanks for letting everyone know right up front that your opinion should be utterly disregarded.
@Steve Stanley
It’s pretty clear that this Worldcon won’t be much fun for anybody, but that’s less DisCon’s fault than the hotel’s, which won’t let them out of their contract. And DisCon is enacting the policies they feel they need to in order to keep those members who will attend safe. Political correctness has nothing to do with it.
The convention is doing what is necessary to protect attendees against a plague that has killed almost a million people in the US alone and one that can have its death toll reduced by just having one or two shots. The convention has decided that doing that is more important than condescending to the freedumb of those afraid of needles or thinking this is all a plot of Bill Gates, George Soros, and Marc C. DuQuesne (though DuQuesne would be first in line for vaccination shots). If you don’t like that go form your own fucking con. You aren’t wanted here.
Jon Meltzer: If you don’t like that go form your own fucking con. You aren’t wanted here.
Oh, now, I think that’s a little extreme. Anyone who is willing to follow Worldcon’s rules about vaccinations and masks, and to adhere to Worldcon’s Code of Conduct – even if it’s reluctantly – is welcome to attend.
But yes, anyone who thinks that their right to endanger others should be paramount to DisCon III’s policies can sod off.
Worldcon has always been an activity field that is predominantly about making a better world for everyone, rather than for just a selfish few. Granted, that has often been more aspirational than actual – but the principle still holds today, more than ever.
@Steve Stanley:
Ahhh, the other penny finally drops. I’m positive that my fellow Filers are NOT surprised.
R.B. – you initiallly did a pretty good job of sounding like a reasonably concerned Fan who had related questions, but you weren’t as successful at the charade’s upkeep, which is, I believe, a consequence of not objeying Heinlein’s laws on lying, the first of which, if memory serves, is, don’t if you can avoid it.
My own concern is this, though I’ll say up front that I accept whatever decision Discon makes in its regard, what about booster shots?
Word on the street is they are going to suggest (and others may require) a booster 8 months after initial vaccination.
I’m not sure if that’s 8 months after the first shot or 8 months after the second shot.
If the booster is widely suggested (which means, for those who have trouble following along, that health experts believe the available data indicates that a booster will substantially increase an individuals ability to remain uninfected) will the convention’s vaccination requirement include proof of a booster? (As it probably should.)
If that 8 months is followinig the first shot, I’ll be able to meet the requirement (even if I have to travel back to NH to get one: moving to Florida mid-pandemic is proving to have been more complicated than originally expected); if it’s following the second shot, that puts me past the dates for the convention and I won’t be able to attend.
RB & others: the goal here is to make sure that no fan is caused to wonder in the future if they were the one responsible for another fan’s death. That possibility should be unacceptable to any fan.
@steve davidson–It’s eight months after the second shot. For probably most but not all fans, it will be “due” before the convention, though in some cases the timing will be tight.
Eight months is deemed to be the optimal time for boosting immunity.
Fauci and others are saying “everyone.”
Others, not including Fauci but including some other respectable people in the field, are saying, “only those over 65 right now, and put those other shots to better use getting more people their first and second shots.” My no-inside-info opinion is that Fauci will prevail, but it’s probably unreasonable to expect DisCon to have a final position on that third shot right now.
R.B, if you have been vaccinated already as you say, why are you arguing so hard at length here that Discon should allow unvaccinated people in with a negative Covid test?
It turns out that it’s not always eight months after the last shot. A friend in Oregon who’s battling a skin cancer (successfully) was given his third shot this week even though he’s not due until December as he got his last shot in April. He was eligible as an immune suppressed individual as he’s a kidney recipient.
For those asking when the booster shots are planned for, I quote the CDC press release: We are prepared to offer booster shots for all Americans beginning the week of September 20 and starting 8 months after an individual’s second dose. Which of course makes perfect sense as you don’t have full immunity until you’ve had your second dose. It says that the plans for the J&J vaccine will be addressed later.
Meredith, are you suggesting that a vaccinated person’s 1% chance increases to 20% if a person they have been in contact with has been tested with a false-negative result? That doesn’t seem right to me. Am I misreading?
Steve Davidson, nothing I have written here is a lie. In my experience, it is easier to dismiss someone if you can write them off as in bad faith. Naturally, I can’t stop you from doing this with me and impugning my integrity in the process. To you, I am just an anonymous person on the internet. The only thing I can suggest is that you evaluate what I have written on its own merits, and ignore whether or not you think I am lying.
On a related note, Cora, I did not set out here to make an argument out of my own self-interest. My concerns are 1) that Worldcon maximize its attendance for the health of the institution. IMO, that means drawing the line here differently. I felt someone should make that case, so I decided to make it; and 2) that the integrity of the organization is at risk when it ignores its Constitution by restricting attendance for a negligible increase in safety.
I realize that raising these concerns here was quixotic at best. The nature of Worldcon is that fans who are involved in the process will rise to defend it on every single point. No concessions. This is especially if they are part of a particular committee. It is a thankless and often expensive process. Sunken Costs Fallacy, thy name is Worldcon. I’ve been there.
I will leave you all here to your regularly scheduled agreeing with each other. You can declare victory if you like and no doubt will. Like most people arguing on the internet I will pretend like the effort was worth it. Have a good day.
Looks like I’m just in time for a helping of mealy-mouthed whining. When unable to formulate a counter-argument, default to persecution complex. Clearly we have a master debater in our midst.
Don’t worry, sweetheart, it’s not going to be the “last Worldcon in history”. No matter how loud your moan, or how hard you stomp your little tootsies.
Half of the people I know who had COVID-19 tested negative after first displaying symptoms. A couple of them did so multiple times (it took one friend five times to get a positive test). Testing may work okay for airlines, but not for a multi-day event with masses of people spending long periods of time in an enclosed space.
Eight months after my second dose (Pfizer) won’t be until January, so unless they let me have it a few weeks early, I wouldn’t be eligible until I get back home.
Elsewhere, I’ve seen people claiming that DC3’s actions are illegal and that “someone” should get an immediate injunction. I don’t see what laws are being violated. But as I know all too well, defending yourself against even specious lawsuits is extremely expensive. You’ll see how expensive in Worldcon 76’s financial report to this year’s Business Meeting.
In Sweden, with higher vaccination status and lower infections than in US, we had a festival around two weeks ago. Out of 500 visitors, more than 100 have tested positive. It was serious enough two close the border to Norway.
Out of these more than 100 infected, only two had been vaccinated. So yes, I think demanding vaccinations is a good policy. Masks less so. More important is to limit visitors in panels and other areas, making sure there’s ample space for socially distancing, establish rules in CoC for respecting others space, making sure there’s distance between tables.
Masks won’t help much if people are standing or sitting close to each for a longer time. A serious policy should include ways to avoid this. But most important is vaccinations. I think it is a great ide of DisCon to require this. The alternative would have been to try to partition the Con or limit attendees to much, much smaller.
If DisCon 3 has requirements on booster shots, there will be a problem as most countries do not have plans to give any such apart from for specific risk groups. That would seriously limit the number of visitors from overseas (from which I guess there will be few from the start).
In Sweden, we are talking about possible boosters in 1-2 years, but nothing specific.
Kevin Standlee says Elsewhere, I’ve seen people claiming that DC3’s actions are illegal and that “someone” should get an immediate injunction. I don’t see what laws are being violated. But as I know all too well, defending yourself against even specious lawsuits is extremely expensive. You’ll see how expensive in Worldcon 76’s financial report to this year’s Business Meeting.
I seriously doubt that any Court during this Pandemic would for a moment let any possible injunction stand. We had a similar case come up here recently in Maine against our Governor as filed by a small Christian church that tried to get SCOTUS to tie her hands by having them declare that she couldn’t do any future lockdowns if need be. The newest Justice, Amy Coney Barrett, refused to let it be heard. And she’s conservative.
So I wouldn’t worry about this. It’s just more empty angry bluster by the kith of JDA.
Hampus Eckerman says If DisCon 3 has requirements on booster shots, there will be a problem as most countries do not have plans to give any such apart from for specific risk groups. That would seriously limit the number of visitors from overseas (from which I guess there will be few from the start).
In Sweden, we are talking about possible boosters in 1-2 years, but nothing specific.
Hampus, the DisCon III statement doesn’t refer to booster shots, just complete vaccination as the idea of booster shots had yet been settled at the time of the statement. I doubt that they’re going to make a difference as the booster shots are merely reinforcing the existing immunity. Think of them as the equivalent of a tetanus booster. DisCon III is going to want to see what your local country has for proof of full vaccination.
“Is deemed” is another way of saying there aren’t studies comparing booster-vaxxed groups to unboostered groups that show a booster keeps people healthier.
R.B.: I realize that raising these concerns here was quixotic at best.
“Pointless” would be a more correct word. Nobody here is making decisions for DisCon III.
Which leads one to wonder why you would argue so vociferously on a site with a bunch of people who don’t have decision-making capacity.
R.B.: I will leave you all here to your regularly scheduled agreeing with each other.
You don’t read the comments on this site very often, if at all, do you? Pretty much the only thing most people here will agree on is that endangering other people’s lives through one’s own selfishness is a bad thing. And even then, there are few dicks here who would disagree with that. (Case In Point. 🙄 )
Yes, the masks everywhere requirement seems to be mostly cosmetic, but I think the hotel may have space issues. But requiring proof of vaccination makes a lot of sense to keep attendants safe.
Love how when someone gets disagreement from several different people it can’t just be that many people disagree with them and think that they’re wrong, it must be because we’re(/[insert other internet community here]) just so in love with being an echo chamber that we can’t open ourselves to their wisdom, don’t you all love that? It’s great. No need for reflection or further research.
@R.B.
I believe you have me mixed up with someone else – probably jayn – because you’re questioning a claim I haven’t made.
@JJ
We all think books are pretty neat! Not the same books, but, like, books as a thing. So there’s that.
So bill asks “Is deemed” is another way of saying there aren’t studies comparing booster-vaxxed groups to unboostered groups that show a booster keeps people healthier.
You do realise that we haven’t actually done boosters yet so we couldn’t have done the studies you wanted done? The boosters that will start being done in thirty days are the first actually being administered. The studies you want won’t be out for quite some months yet.
Meredith: We all think books are pretty neat! Not the same books, but, like, books as a thing. So there’s that.
Yes, but the books you like suck, and the books I like don’t! 😛
Except Murderbot. Pretty much everyone agrees about Murderbot. 😀
@JJ
We could probably work up a debate about which is the best Murderbot story, though!
ETA: Also, so mean, my fave books are defo the best books. ;____;
Sadly, I’m not part of that “everyone”! I bounced off the series.
Meredith: We could probably work up a debate about which is the best Murderbot story, though!
👍
Chris Rose: Sadly, I’m not part of that “everyone”! I bounced off the series.
Sorry, dude, that’s it, you’re outta here. No opinions allowed from you, until the next time you have an opinion! 😛
@JJ: I don’t know. I haven’t read Murderbot, but it sounds too violent for me. 🙂
Books! It’s scrolls for me!
@Chris Rose
I have seen some elseweb so you’re not truly alone, just outnumbered.
Taste is so subjective, there’s never going to be universal appreciation or criticism for any piece of art, of any kind.
@Jeffrey Jones
There’s a lot less murder than it sounds!
ETA: @Mike Glyer
LOL
Well THAT was certainly weird.
(I think we can also all agree on THAT too?)
I need a series re-read to decide the best Murderbot story
Side-eyes JJ: Not me!
There’s been a lot of concern trolling (and R.B. was a classic concern troll) about DC3’s decision over on the Twitters. It’s disappointing, but not altogether surprising, to see.