A week after ConCarolinas announced John Ringo as a special guest, a choice hailed by his fans but protested by a number of writers on the con program in an extended social media controversy, the con committee has announced he won’t be coming.
Their official statement reads:
ConCarolinas and John Ringo have mutually agreed he will not attend the 2018 event. ConCarolinas wants to provide a positive environment for everyone who attends our events from our guests, attendees, vendors, and staff.
We represent a diverse range of opinions and support that.
We will not tolerate harassment or bullying as stated in our policy.
Any comments regarding this may be sent to [email protected]
ConCarolinas ConCom: Jada Diaz, ConChair; Dawson Kriska, Vice Chair; Sue Lambert, Secretary and Treasurer; Luis Diaz, Director of Security
While the official statement focuses on a desire to “provide a positive environment for everyone,” both Ringo and the con chair are spinning a different story.
John Ringo wrote on Facebook:
I just got disinvited from a con due to threats to my personal safety. This is more dangerous to me than the five fatwahs I’ve had over the years from various friendly and peaceful lovers of The Most Holy Prophet. Peace be upon his beard. Allahu Akhbar.
And ConCarolinas chair Jada Hope, responding to questions from Jim C. Hines, said:
https://twitter.com/IamJadaDiaz/status/985974065608495104
https://twitter.com/IamJadaDiaz/status/985986436313812992
Ringo has also unspooled a long commentary on his Facebook page [Internet Archive link] seeking to turn the “safety” complaint back against the protesters who raised it about the author and his fans in the first place. (The excerpt is about half the wordage, see the rest at the link.)
And again with the ‘we do not tolerate harassment or bullying’ without pointing out who that is pointed at.
From my last email with the conchair:
“as ConChair I know this will be an extremely hostile environment and I am concerned for your personal safety. ”
It was mutual, more on that in a moment. But they very much rescinded because they were concerned for my safety.
That was how bad it was getting.
They weren’t concerned I’d grab and axe and start killing all the POCs, women, transgenders, what have you.
They were (justifiably from the comments) concerned for MY safety. And the ‘bullying’ they were commenting on was the bullying by the SJW twitter mobsters.
Why it was phrased as ‘mutual.’
‘Oh, no, John Ringo, no! You’re giving in to the Social Justice Bullies!’
You can phrase it that way. Or you can phrase it this way.
I’m a New York Times best selling author with over 7 million books in print. By far and away I was the largest ‘print’ guest on the list with the largest fan following and thus the biggest draw.
For someone like myself, cons are NOT about marketing. There is very little additional market to be picked up at any litcon, including WorldCon. Cons are places to go to talk with people who enjoy reading science fiction and fantasy and are generally smart and interesting people. To meet new people (one of the reasons I agreed to attend ConCarolinas was ‘new people’), to pick up new characters, to have a good time.
There is very little fiscal reason for someone like myself to attend. Ergo: The best reason is to have fun.
Not for any particular ‘political’ reason, prior to my being invited the guest list for the ‘lit’ side was HEAVILY weighted to the Left. Basically, the entire guest list is ‘between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders’ with the late add of a ‘token Nazi.’
I’ve been to those cons. I know what happens. Every single panel turns into a continuous shitfest. I’m constantly stopped in the hallways to be asked when did I join the Nazi party and how long have I been a Nazi. Forget intentional ‘disruptions’ that are the hallmark of the modern fascists called ‘progressives.’ It would be just another shitfest like WindyCon or (christ, can’t even remember the name of that one, I’ve deleted the memory…) Hell, I dropped my attendance at LosCon over much less furor than this.
The panels consist of someone with no background and no real professional CV spouting some idiocy they learned in a bad writer’s workshop followed by me trying to politely tell them they’re as full of shit as a Christmas turkey and pointing out the reality of writing and publishing. Then I get told ‘That’s not true!’ or ‘You’re wrong!’ with no logical follow-up and it just goes downhill from there. If I sit there mute it turns into a Communist Party Religious Meeting of people speaking Truth to Power and being told how great they are until the next person speaks Truth To Power and so on and so forth. And pretty much every truth to power boils down to ‘The Sun Rises in the West and Revolves Around Moscow Center and Bernie/Obama/Whoever is Jesus and We Have Always Been At War With Eastasia!’
Yeah. No.
…To be clear: This isn’t any loss to me. It is a loss to the con and the attendees who were looking forward to John Ringo attending. It’s even a loss to the Social Justice Bullies since some of my fans might accidentally have bought some of their books.
To me, there is NO downside.
YES! I caved to the social justice bullies and now I DON’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH TSA! WOOOOT!
And con chair Jada Hope added this response:
Caveat – I am commenting as Jada Hope – individual human being. Even though I am going to post somewhat as ConChair, this is not endorsed by the ConCarolinas ConCom.
This decision sucks. To be concerned for John’s safety to the point of looking at having security guards (possibly armed – an off duty police officer is present at the con during “high traffic hours”) – what fun would that be for John?
Like John, I hate traveling and I’d rather stay in my chair (I’m in it now as I post). And yes, we could have marched to the top of the hill and planted the flag of “Nobody tells us what to do”.
Again, what fun would this have been for John? He doesn’t need the marketing exposure.
I apologize, again personally as Jada the individually member of the human race, to everyone who was looking forward to John attending.
One thing I will address is the rumor that John and I were in collusion to pull a “Gotcha” by delaying the announcement. Very late in February John signed an agreement to be a guest. That Friday I was in a car accident and sustained a concussion aka traumatic brain injury and was under doctor’s orders to not be on the computer or phone. I posted very little from 3/2 until a week and a half ago and a week ago Thursday I ended up with the concussion symptoms coming back full force.
There was no collusion.
I can only apologize to John and his fans for this getting so out of hand.
As my dear friend Sue has said:
“Public stoning is no longer done in the town square. It is executed via social media.”
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Well he wouldn’t have been high on my list to encounter as I find his books at best badly written pieces of merde that I’ve never got more than a few chapters in. I should stress that tends to true of almost everything newish from his publisher.
And why is OK for them, small ‘c’ conservatives or whatever they are, to express their views strongly but if folks with views similar to mind express those views that it’s wrong to do so?
So now he’s also insulted the convention for its other choices for programming, as well as all of the authors who are appearing.
Apparently his motto is “Leave No Bridge Unburned”.
It honestly sounds like the only reason he was ever invited was so that he could flounce out the door in a huff. Or possibly a snit. I heard that they stopped doing updates on huffs earlier this year.
I see that the style and substance of Mr. Ringo’s commentary has not changed since his RavenCon report of 2006.
I see no complaint from Jada Hope about John Ringo calling one of their guests a nazi. Should I take it as her being ok with bullying and harassment towards their guests, as long as it is not against John Ringo?
I read through this looking for the threat to his “safety” and found only threats to his comfort. And it’s pretty legit to say “I don’t want to go to a con where everybody is going to go out of their way to tell me how much they disagree with me and how awful they think I am, that’s just no fun,” calling it a matter of “safety” just seems like he’s trying to stir up extra drama.
Inviting Ringo was tone deaf, and he is a well known problem for issues not involving his politics. But, understanding the local fannish community and being in the same circles as the con’s leadership I can see the line of reasoning for picking Ringo as a guest. He’s certainly not someone I would invite but I am just old enough to remember “No, John Ringo, No”, even if I didn’t view his politics as an issue. It was clearly the wrong decision, but I understand how it got made. The reaction was indefensible before Jada full on rage quit. That’s what really gets my dander up.
I’ve never seen a refusal to be in the same convention as someone framed as a threat to their safety before. I suppose the concom might have received some more serious information, but the tweet in response to Jim Hines seems more ‘not fun’ versus Ringo’s claim of actual physical danger.
If there were any actual threats, that would be appalling, but it really looks like Ringo is just doing his snowflake act.
Um… I’m deeply sorry to hear about the con chair’s accident and subsequent sidelining in terms of computer communication – hence the “late announcement” of the contentious GoH. But, um, aren’t these things run BY COMMITTEE and did the whole convention planning grind to a complete halt while the chair was indisposed? The vice-chair – the programming person – ANYONE on the committee – couldn’t have put together a social media post that said, “sorry, our chiarpoerson is not able to be here at the moment, but we wish to announce that we invited Pro X to be our GoH” ?
I mean, a convention is entitled to invite whomever they want. The people attending the convention are also entitled to vote with their dollars in terms of whether or not they would be willing to attend a con where certain people were invited in an honor-capacity. And I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that *armed guards* would have been necessary to ensure the “safery” of this particular guest, unless conventions in Carolina are very differnet from the ones I have been attending for decades all over the rest of the USA. As far as this guest’s level of personal COMFORT (i;e; the “fun” that is pulled up as something that he is supposed to have/be entitled to and which would be endangered to the point of armed guards in the hallways) – I don’t really see a concern for the safety/comfort of any other con attendee. And I for one would have really serious second thoughts about going to a convention where armed guards with loaded guns were roaming the hallways of the con hotel.
Respect is earned, not bought. A New York Bestselling Author isn’t automatically entitled to respect if he hasn’t shown those whom he wishes to have respect him a reason to do so. I”m afraid this snitty response has done rather more to lower any respect that might have been in circulation than it might have done to prove that the lack he felt of said respect might have been an issue. If the guest dismisses the con attendees – and even named cons! – as nto being good enough for his august presence… well… I don’t know who’s missing out here. I don’t think it would be the con goers, though, if he didn’t show. I also think, however, that this particular con’s atmosphere is already poisoned by this, in terms of everyone’s “comfort level”. Again, cons are entitled to invite anyone they want, even controversial voices – but if they do then they shouldn’t be surprised that controversy ensues…
Considering how much people like Ringo, Correia, Torgersen, JDA etc… stress what strong men they are, they are remarkably worried about vague threats.
Not saying that there weren’t threats (and threats are wrong, people), but it’s telling that we never got any specifics in either case.
Yeah. I’d applied for ConCarolinas because several friends had told me it was a great con and that if I came I’d be welcomed and taken care of. I had to withdraw this year due to some personal stuff (including there being too many things happening in June this year) but had figured I would apply again next year. But I think not.
I already have a problematic con on my calendar that I’m working to change. I don’t think I can handle another.
I was at the Windycon where Ringo was GOH (the theme of the con was, appropriately, military SF). I attended a number of sessions with him on the panel. I don’t remember any “shitfest.” Maybe I missed something? (Darn it, I always miss the good stuff.) He was a good speaker, even though he said (at a 7 p.m. panel) that he was functioning on about 50 percent. I would have liked to see him at 100.
OTOH, Jada Hope’s “There was no collusion” pretty much tells me everything I want to know about her position.
And FWIW, I liked Ringo’s “A Hymn Before Battle.” Good crackling action, especially the battle at the end. It’s too bad it’s come down to this. Still have a sneaking desire to read some of his Monster Hunter books.
ETA: Were there any actual (documented) threats to Ringo? That sounds a little preposterous.
Remember several years ago, when that self-proclaimed alpha male VD was expressing fear of Lee Martindale—a (delightful) woman in her sixties who gets about in a wheelchair?
Looking at Ringo’s response…
Well. Hmm. Yeah, so that’s… a remarkable piece of verbiage there. Memorable, if not in its specifics, at least in its general tone.
I will say that having an armed guard at a convention would probably make it less safe, not more. Certainly it would make *me* feel less safe, not more, and it would make me much more worried for the safety of attendees of color.
FWIW the one time I went to ConCarolinas (they kindly invited me as a filk guest) I had a very good time. I did get the impression it was a pretty Puppy-friendly place (and this was right around Sad Puppies II if I remember correctly) but there seemed to be more or less a general cease fire in place. I’m sorry, but not very surprised, to see that cease fire beginning to break down in the age of Trump. Though it is quite possible that that cease fire was never there for PoC or LGBT people and I didn’t see that because of my privilege.
In any case, I would rather have a positive peace–the presence of justice, than a negative one–the absence of tension. Here’s hoping we can all find our way through to that positive peace.
The regulars at ConCarolinas who are puppies, where members before the puppies were a thing. It’s a mixed bag of people, some of who are tolerated well longer then they should be (Ringo), some of whom became problems because of the Puppies, and some of whom fall into the broader spectrum of ‘older Southern white guys with problematic opinions but behave like adults’. However, they are also at the core of the SP and helped empower the RP.
The established bits of Southern Fandom leaned far more conservative when I started going to cons *cough cough* years ago. There has been a cultural shift within regional fandom, that matches the cultural shift within broader fandom and the broader regional community. This creates tension, which has been made worse by a number of factors from within and without. Yes, that includes the Puppies and American politics. That has led to a situation where there are more and more cons that it is clear are havens for some fans, at the cost of excluding others, that breaks down on political lines. Because issues of gender, sexuality, race and religion break along political lines in the US, especially in places like North Carolina. ConCarolinas claims to be apolitical, but in doing so have chosen a side. They chose poorly.
You worthless fecking bastards, I’m damn glad to be told I’m not a true fan. Only been reading sci fi since second grade, thank god for the bookmobile. I hope you all disappear up your own intolerant aholes.
Egh?
I think the only person who has muttered the words “not a true fan” is yourself. But I suspect you may be a troll. So, perhaps you should move back under that bridge before the sunlight turns you to stone.
It was grrm that told me a lifelong love of sci fi meant nothing, and I was not a true fan. He and you can both go to hell.
Well, the ‘There was no collusion.’ certainly isn’t there by accident, and it seals the deal on whether I would ever have the slightest interest in attending that convention.
@John M. Cowan:
I was at that WindyCon, and walked past after one of Ringo’s panels about the military and civilians. Ran into a friend who was very shaken up. Ringo had apparently shown up ten minutes late (after getting into a verbal fight with another author), was unhappy with the panel, and stormed out not once but twice. (Yes, he came back in and then stormed out a second time.) At least one of the panelists was in tears over his behavior during the panel.
This may or may not be the shitfest he was referring to. And as I noted, this is secondhand information from a friend who was on the panel. But I can attest they were very upset by what had just gone down.
Mr Bishop:
Your comments are puzzling me greatly, as nobody on this thread has said anything close to what you are alleging. George RR Martin does not even comment here. So I don’t understand what you’re going on about.
Sweetie. As a female, poverty-class, liberal author living in the South, I can guarantee you that every con I’ve been to thus far has been hell. But it’s so nice of you to recognize my situation. Perhaps you want to come and help me hold space here amongst the burning fires of misogyny and racism and homophobia and ableism?
No? I didn’t think so. Imagined persecution is the worst kind, isn’t it?
William Bishop:
What!? Are we supposed to know who you are or recognize your name from somewhere? Your comment is just totally confusing.
You mad, William?
@William Bishop
Trufan doesn’t translate to “true fan”. It means “person who belongs to a specific part of fandom”. I’m not a member of that part of fandom, so I’m not a trufan, but I’m a fan. I don’t feel insulted when people correctly describe themselves as being from a specific part of fandom, nor do I feel insulted when they correctly identify me as being from a different part of fandom. I’m not sure why you’re still offended about it when by now you must have had this explained to you several times over.
Perhaps you’d get better results if you spoke to the individuals in this thread rather than some imaginary oppressive hivemind.
Nope, I’m just someone who reads and loves sci fi since about 1961 or so and despises the bullshit that you lot are putting out. Not everyone agrees with the party line. Guess that can’t be tolerated.
I went to look it up, “OH JOHN RINGO NO” was ten years ago. I thought it was more recent.
@William Bishop,
I have read somewhere (though I can’t recall where) GRRM saying that one didn’t qualify as a true fan unless one took part in certain activities he considered fannish. I have never liked that sort of gatekeeping & I’m sorry if it was directed at you.
As most of my activities are online, some might not consider me to be a fan at all. I still think of myself as a fan (with a small f) regardless of what some Big Name Author might say. If you identify as a fan, you’re a fan.
@William Bishop
No one here has insulted you or called you “not a real fan”. We don’t even know who you are, sorry.
And if you have an issue with George R.R. Martin, maybe take it up with him at “Not a Blog”, since Martin doesn’t even comment here. Besides, Martin has every right to define a “true fan” however he sees fit, just as you or I or anybody else has the right to disagree with him.
William, WTactualF are you going on about, because you’re not relating to ANY effing thing ANYONE has said in this thread.
And your fandom is what you want it to be. You don’t have to be a particular kind of fan because someone else thinks you should be. Anyone who tells you otherwise you should be able to ignore.
William Bishop: You worthless fecking bastards, I’m damn glad to be told I’m not a true fan. Only been reading sci fi since second grade, thank god for the bookmobile. I hope you all disappear up your own intolerant aholes… It was grrm that told me a lifelong love of sci fi meant nothing, and I was not a true fan. He and you can both go to hell.
You know that GRRM has his own blog, he posted that there, not here, and he doesn’t hang out here — though File 770 does frequently post news relating to him and his works?
I’m interested in seeing where someone here told you that you’re not a true fan — can you point to that? Or are you just enjoying blaming everyone here for what GRRM says? (and I will point out that I disagreed with much of what he said in that particular blog post)
Also, a great many people here, including me, have been reading science fiction since their bookmobile days. I’m not sure why you think that makes you more special than anyone else.
Ya know, 1961 is when I started reading, and somehow I don’t have your attitude problems — possibly because I get around fandom enough to know what’s bullshit and what isn’t. (Hint: you’ve got the wrong end of the stick.)
@Alma Alexander: concoms vary massively: some are cooperative (even cooperative enough to save the chair’s ass when they crump), some are autocratic. Sounds like ConCarolinas may have been the latter — or may simply not have the habit of picking up each other’s slack, or may not have had the spoons to do so.
William Bishop:
Ok, so you are no-one we have ever heard of and you despise something that we have no idea what it is, but despite this we have in some weird way said that you, the person we have never heard of, is not a true fan?
Is that the gist of it all?
@Chip Hitchcok
I know I was reading SF by 1961, although it was the mid-70s before I met fandom. I’ve never been told I’m not a trufan (and I’d probably laugh at whoever tried it).
Not born until 1970, so I guess I didn’t start in on my fathers SF-books and magazines until the end of the 70s.
I prefer fan with little “f” myself, I’m not part of organzining conventions, sitting in on panels, writing for magazinew and stuff like that. I do not feel comfortable being placed as a fan with 100% blindness and loyalty to the cause. SF is just something that I like and have read much of.
So no Fan or Trufan for me. I do not care what others call themselves.
Apropos of nothing, I wonder how many times Harlan Ellison — to pull a name from a hat — required a guarantee that there would be no “hostile” reactions of any sort to his presence at any con?
Oh, and for clarity of the discussion, here is the definition of trufan:
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/trufan
ROFL!!
He… showed up late, threw an tantrum and left, came back, and threw another tantrum and left again?
Bless his heart.
You guys have a solid 30 years on me, but in my defense if would’ve been absolutely impossible for me to do much of anything before the late 80s seeing as how I wasn’t born.
As it stands, one of my very earliest memories is reading Journey to the Centre of the Earth at bedtime with my dad. Another is watching a stage adaptation of Alice Through the Looking-glass at the Minack Theatre on holiday one year.
I’m still not a trufan though. I don’t organise or attend cons, or do any fanwriting (unless random meandering comments here count) or anything like that. Like Hampus I’m good with just being a little ‘f’ fan and I’ll leave the heavy lifting and organising and attending of cons to everyone else, thanks.
I’m seeing a new trend where shitty conservative authors can act out however childlike and assholey as can be and when they face ANY kind of repercussions it’s “Oh it’s because I’m conservative!”
No, it’s because you’re an asshole. A quick google search shows John Ringo’s general verbage as a garbage human. That’s not counting countless female friends (who aren’t in the same small circles) claiming he’s a serial sexual harrasser. But if you say boo, you’re discriminating against him. Because he’s conservative. Please keep telling me how “liberals always (this/that)” and how only one party is acceptable. This is sad. And full of holes in logic.
I think traditionally “trufan” only included (paper) fanzine fandom, and you had to at least send letters of comment. Subscribing didn’t count. By that definition I was never a trufan.
A lot of usages of “Fan” use a definition closer to the older term “actifan”, which would include other forms of activity. I prefer the older word, as being less subject to misunderstanding. Or we could just say active fan.
Anyway, William Bishop, I have no idea why you chose this place to storm into, but, while highly deprecating your language, I, too, am sorry if someone has told you you don’t count as a fan. You definitely do. If you are willing to moderate your ranting just a bit, you’re welcome to stick around and discuss fiction with us. What do you like to read?
@Jim C. Hines, like I said, I apparently miss all the good stuff.
If it’s the same Windycon, I recall a large panel at which one of the speakers said something to the effect of, “I don’t know if you’re all liberals or conservatives . .. ” and Eric Flint stood up said, “I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m a socialist.” Loved him for that.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again — I’m not a trufan myself. I am, and always have been, pretty much of a fringe fan.
So what?
It feels like this Bishop guy accidentally wandered onto the wrong website in the midst of an argument with somebody else that started somewhere else, doesn’t it?
I love how you folks denigrate conservatives as a monoculture on here, yet when anyone says anything about liberals you point out there isn’t a standard liberal.
From what’s been reported, Ringo got actual death threats – and from the so-called accepting and friendly forces of Fandom.
Reading the comments above, I find this place an echo chamber that is unfriendly and basically makes Mean Girls seem like a guidebook for Fandom.
That’s kind of sad.
I’m sure I’ll be insulted for intruding, but the idea that Ringo was threatened is ridiculous, and frankly doesn’t hurt Ringo a bit – it hurts the readers who might have gone to the con to meet someone whose work they appreciated.
The Mean Girls win, and the author in question frankly doesn’t need to put up with their crap. The only victim is con attendees.
Neutrals watching this have to shake their head and turn away in disgust.
Okay, go ahead and say rude things about me or John or whomever. Because the blame must be on folks who aren’t you.
“concerned for John’s safety”
Yeah, no. People deciding not to attend obviously don’t pose a threat to Ringo or anyone else at the con. ::eyeroll::
Reported by who, where?
@Michael A. Rothman
What about the readers and fans who came to meet one of the other guests who cancelled because of John Ringo? Don’t they count as well?
If anyone is still wondering about why women are super-uncomfortable about dealing with Ringo:
That is actually fairly recent. (Within the past year, if a little past the sixth month mark.) I couldn’t actually finish it, to be honest, so proceed with caution because the victim blaming is thick.
ETA: This is not just a case of disliking someone for not writing fantasy. Or because we prefer stories with dragons and that’s not “hard” enough for the male authors out there.
By Ringo on his post in comments.
Mean Girls came out over a decade ago. I wish the lovely Republicans would be a bit more creative. Of course, projection hardly is.
I knew several people that said they WOULD NOT GO if he went on account of SERIAL SEXUAL HARASSMENT but yes, it’s his safety that’s the concern. And it’s because he’s conservative. Got it. All I’m hearing (which you won’t bother to argue) is that he can behave however poorly he wants but if anyone says boo it’s scapegoated as hating Republicans. But it’s liberals that are Mean Girls and expect different treatment. Gotcha 😉
Knowing pros that would avoid the con if he was there is not threatening him. He’s going to boohoo over not going and play victim when he creates victims and blames “lefties” when they don’t like it. Please find a new argument tactic. Or, you know, evidence. Saying there was death threats – sure. I’m the Queen of France.