241 thoughts on “Comments for 8/27

  1. Well, seven Presidents and William Henry Harrison. Surely he doesn’t count as a full President.

    Come to think of it, Garfield, McKinley, and Harding were also from Ohio. We’re not getting full value from our Ohio Presidents.

  2. @ JJ:

    That’s just because they were on the Puppy slate.

    LOL!

    @ Tasha:

    The cookbooks look perfect for my husband and our Shabbos crew who love to cook, try new foods, and learn about history and culture.

    In that case, on the off chance that you haven’t already got it, I recommend Poopa Dweck’ AROMAS OF ALEPPO, a huge cookbook with many recipes and history of the food, culture, and social customs of the Syrian Jewish community. Very much in he vein of those other food books I just mentioned (but with a ton of wonderful photos).

  3. Ageism in SFF:

    Anyone working in SFF who’s older than me is a classic veteran.

    Anyone working in SFF who’s younger than me is the new hotness.

    Anyone working in SFF who’s the same age as me to the day is probably Mike Mignola, and he’s great too.

  4. Not a cookbook, although it does have at least some recipes, but I was fascinated by Lizzie Collingham’s Curry: A Tale of Cooks and Conquerors, about the history of probably my favorite food (unless you ask me on a day when Ethiopian is my favorite).

  5. My favorite cookbook is From My Grandmother’s Kitchen: A Sephardic Cookbook, by Vivianne Miner. I should probably get another copy because the one I have is so worn and stained from long use. I also highly recommend Olives, Lemons and Za’atar, by Rawia Bishara. Er, and I’ve added two cookbooks to my already massive TBR.

    My one regret about Worldcon is having missed the food and cookbook panels. I love cookbooks and food talk with an unholy passion and find vintage recipe books one of the best ways to understand the past.

  6. Laura:

    Have you read JOHN SATURNALL’S FEAST, by Lawrence Norfolk?

    It’s not a cookbook, and not SFF (or if it is, only by a hair), but it’s a foodie book beyond compare, set largely in and around the kitchens of a 17th-century British manor hall, and it’s got compelling characters and wonderful food writing.

    I want more like it.

  7. For those who can see it, a friend who visited Mike in the hospital yesterday has posted a photo on Facebook.

    Diana says: Mike is doing much better, definitely on the mend. We are so encouraged.

  8. @Cat Rambo

    To me it seems that dismissing concerns like Maggie’s out of hand might be part of what she’s talking about. From my perspective, I find conversations with Maggie always useful and usually illuminating. At any rate, they remind me that F&SF fandom is not as uniform as people often assume.

    Lots of more serious concerns get dismissed routinely, though. I sure wouldn’t start with “flyover state.” My #1 “dismissed concern” is use of the word “queer” for gay people.

    I’m a 57-year-old gay man who grew up in the South, and I have terrible memories of the word “queer.” It is literally painful to me to hear it used to refer to me–directly or indirectly. I’m far from the only gay man who feels that way (including some younger ones). And yet it’s impossible to get the people who do use the word to listen to that concern. They’ll “explain” that they’re “reclaiming” the word. (Ask what would happen if Trump started using it if you want to see how well that has worked–it’s about as “reclaimed” as the N-word.) The other reason is that it lets them avoid mentioning lesbians, bisexuals, and transsexuals–NOT a worthy goal.

    So the word hurts people, and literally has nothing to recommend it, and yet concerns about it are always dismissed out of hand.

    If we can’t do anything about “queer,” I wouldn’t hold out much hope for “flyover.”

  9. Greg Hullender:

    You make me a bit confused. When I see “queer” being used today, it is not short for HBT. It is instead a term for those that do not fit in HBT, but still does not fit as just straight heterosexuals.

    Genderfluid, agender, asexual, heterosexual, but using attributes fron opposite gender withouy being transsexual and so on.

  10. @Hampus Eckerman

    You make me a bit confused. When I see “queer” being used today, it is not short for HBT. It is instead a term for those that do not fit in HBT, but still does not fit as just straight heterosexuals.

    Do a google search for “why I hate the word queer” and look at the discussions. It is absolutely being used to replace LGBT, although there’s a fairly small group that seems to be trying to use “queer” to refer to “other” (and you’ll see LGBTQ), but that’s confusing to lots of people because that Q was supposed to mean “questiong” not queer.

  11. In Sweden, we say HBTQ and I have never heard the “Q” referred to as questioning. :/

    So from a swedish perspective, the google you recommended show many people being angry at the word for being used as it is not being used. But I give that it might be different in other places.

  12. Some updated information on the media mentions of the Dragon Awards.

    A blog that highlights the “Good Guys” and strikes out the known SJWs (including Ann Leckie)
    http://www.bookhorde.org/2016/08/the-new-dragon-awards-vote-for-good-guys.html

    There actually was a press release on the DragonCon Media Relations page (nothing anywhere else on the main website)
    http://www.bookhorde.org/2016/08/the-new-dragon-awards-vote-for-good-guys.html

    SciFi4Me.com did an interview with Eric Flint and Bill Fawcett at Worldcon and brought up the subject.

    Most of the other recent tweets about the awards were from people who were nominated. The most retweeted article about them was the original Io9/Gizmodo article about them.

  13. A blog that highlights the “Good Guys” and strikes out the known SJWs (including Ann Leckie)

    Kinda disappointed I didn’t get struck out, along with virtually all the rest of the comics category.

  14. In Sweden, there is resistance towards the word “queer” for the exact opposite reason. Sometimes “queers” are seen as outsiders that aren’t HBT, but are trying to use the goodwill of the movement for their own political causes. I.e, queer is NOT seen as HBT and there is a hot debate (that seems to have passed a bit) if the Q should even be included.

    My guess is that the “questioning” had already been partly replaced before the “Q” came to Sweden. And that the Queer became very fashionable as it fits in with the swedish brand of feminism as to loosen the roles of masculinity and femininity.

  15. @Lee

    I like the the following bit from his listings:

    Ctrl Alt Revolt! by Nick Cole – see my post about this banned book

    It makes a strange sort of sense that an author who doesn’t know what “censorship” means would have fans who don’t know what “banned” means.

  16. A blog that highlights the “Good Guys” and strikes out the known SJWs (including Ann Leckie)

    I couldn’t resist leaving this comment over there. (Content note for Tasha and others [sexual assault] re: Outlander)

    Well, if you’re talking about “known SJW’s,”, Jessica Jones is about the most feminist, SJW-thing you could think of. Outlander is feminist as well, commenting heavily on rape culture, including the male lead being raped.

    Marko Kloos withdrew his nominated book from last year’s Hugos, becaused he wanted nothing to do with Mr Beale, and was awarded an Alfie by George RR Martin.

    Oh yeah, and y’all forgot about Rey and Finn. And The Expanse has multiple female leads and POC!!

    Ms. Marvel is also a Pakastani-American, Muslim superhero, written by a Muslim woman.

    Just wanted to make sure you’ve got all your anti-PC, anti SJW ducks in a row.

    I wonder if he’ll strike out anything else now.

  17. Kurt Busiek on August 27, 2016 at 5:29 pm said:

    A blog that highlights the “Good Guys” and strikes out the known SJWs (including Ann Leckie)

    Kinda disappointed I didn’t get struck out, along with virtually all the rest of the comics category

    Looking at what was struck out it appears the blogger mostly just took the recent Hugo non-puppy picks or those that night that were vocal and just isn’t familiar with many of the authors or works.

    I did laugh a little at the notation that a Declan Finn book was received for review but not yet read.

  18. Laura, since you mentioned the medieval Islamic cookbook (which I now need to get), I’m wondering if you’ve encountered Fabulous Feasts: Medieval Cookery and Ceremony. It’s something very similar from the Western European viewpoint – lots of social history along with the recipes. The authenticity of some has been questioned, but authenticity isn’t a big hangup of mine – your mileage may vary.

  19. @Bonnie McDaniel thanks! Definitely need to check out Czerneda though unfortunately her kindle availability isn’t the best and I’m out of audible credits… 2 weeks!

  20. Delurking with a quick question for anyone who’s been reading Jemisin’s The Obelisk Gate: 18% in, there’s a chapter called Interlude that’s basically unreadable because all the letters are jammed together. I’ve tried deleting it from my device and reloading it, but no luck.

    Anyone else having similar issues, or have a solution? Thanks much in advance.

  21. Lee Whiteside: A blog that highlights the “Good Guys” and strikes out the known SJWs

    It’s pretty damn funny that they don’t consider Kim Stanley Robinson an SJW. 😆

  22. Jane: the interlude is in italics but read fine on my kindle – what device are you using and do you have all standard fonts etc.? I can imagine it being the kind of thing where user modification and the settings within the file itself might not play well together.

    Other options might be to see if changing display settings on your device works, or if you can use an alternative (phone/computer app for kindle, not sure what if anything exists for other ereaders, Calibre or Adobe if DRM allows) just for that chapter + any like it.

  23. Jane: the interlude is in italics but read fine on my kindle
    It was fine in my Kobo desktop program, but I haven’t yet tried it on my reader.
    (I do sometimes have to adjust font size. Some publishers seem to think that tiny print is good.)

  24. Arifel and PJ: thanks for chiming in! Oddly, this is just a standard iPad mini, no special fonts or anything,

    Turns out I can get around it by copying and pasting the passages into another app, which is tedious, but at least I’m not missing anything.

    (I have, of course, tried switching settings around, which affects the rest of the book, but not this one page.)

  25. Oh stop stop with cookbook/culture/history recs!! My wishlist exceeds ten pages already! Seriously though, I love reading cookbooks that include culture and history.

  26. I chatted with an older, grizzled man in the consuite at WorldCon. The first thing he said was “I’m not into politics”. I had no idea why he made that remark. I asked him if he’d been to cons before and he said that he loved Larry Correia so much he went to a World con. Uh-oh, I thought. Then he raved about the works of Declann Finn. He had all of his works, DF didn’t write fast enough, he wrote compelling stories, etc. At first I thought he was pulling my leg, but he wasn’t. He seemed quite pleasant and nice, so I was, too.

    I considered engaging him in a discussion of their slating tactics in 2015 and whether he approved of VD, but decided it would be a total waste of our time.

  27. @Jane Dark

    I downloaded Obelisk Gate onto my iPad into iBooks the day it was released and have had no problem all the way through.

    You probably already thought of it, but try updating your device, rebooting your device, looking online for others having similar problem with that book/device for suggestions?

    Hope you get it resolved. It’s soooooo frustrating when this kind of thing happens.

  28. I also like the Toast (RIP) version
    http://the-toast.net/2014/02/11/after-the-war-everythings-all-different/

    @Laura Resnick: “Cuisine and Empire” by Rachael Laudan. Only a couple recipes as we think of them, but history galore. Like @Cheryl S, I think “From My Grandmother’s Kitchen” is also swell. @Jonathan: “Fabulous Feasts” includes pineapple FFS, so yes, authenticity is a problem. For medieval cooking, I like “To the King’s Taste”, which is a Forme of Cury modernization. “A Taste of Ancient Rome” is my most gloppy, splotched retro-cookbook.

    @James Nicoll: So WFC is admitting they’re a clueless clusterfrack. I mean, not that we didn’t already know that, but it’s nice to see them say it openly. The linked Twitterstorm by PNH is also edifying. No bylaws, ack!

    Glad to hear OGH has the new shiny! That point where you’re too sick to go out but well enough to be bored is a great time for it.

  29. Jane Dark on August 27, 2016 at 6:46 pm said:

    Delurking with a quick question for anyone who’s been reading Jemisin’s The Obelisk Gate: 18% in, there’s a chapter called Interlude that’s basically unreadable because all the letters are jammed together. I’ve tried deleting it from my device and reloading it, but no luck.

    Frustrating. My Kindle version was fine.

  30. It’s pretty damn funny that they don’t consider Kim Stanley Robinson an SJW.

    The real irony is a member of group that has declared it a terrible thing that people might not read or vote for things for ideological reasons making a list of things not to read or vote for for ideological reasons.

  31. The cookbook recommendations took me down rabbit holes. So many books added to my wishlists. Thanks all.


    Yay OGH has a new toy and is looking good and feeling better.

  32. Petréa Mitchell: a lot of the worry about the greying of fandom is not ageism; it’s people of your parents’ generation (e.g., myself) knowing we’re running out of energy and wondering whether Worldcons (or their favorite regional) will still be around to go to when we can’t take on major responsibilities. (Example: I had to push hard a couple of years ago to get Boskone setup to start earlier because I can no longer be building the art show at 1AM — at least, not if I want to be alive to finish other setup responsibilities the next day.) Similarly, there are people in the local SCA who think we should be worried because the last of the college-based subgroups (“burroughs”) died a few years ago.

    And it’s not ageism to point out that the Puppies, most of whom are young (and deluded or purblind about what SF used to be like), represent viewpoints that we’re better off without and that look like other viewpoints that have died as the world changed. Note that clearing out past prejudiced doesn’t require that the prejudiced die, just that they learn better; cf Harry Byrd being a Klansman when he was young, or LBJ a race-baiter.

    And I have a major problem with Jemisin’s blanket “readers have been trained” claim; it may not be as pernicious as conventional dismissals of people on account of their race or sex, but it leans toward the same unreasoning confusion of “some X are Y” with “[all] X are Y”. Unlikable characters are unlikable, period; I found no more virtue in the lead in Comedy of Dunces than I would if such a jackass had the additional burdens of being female or non-white — although I suspect that some of the critics who went ape over the book wouldn’t have done so if the author had changed the character’s skin or gonads. I had trouble following the three-ply narrative of The Fifth Season, but I had no trouble with Essun because (unlike some previous Jemisin leads) she was dealing with problems — not necessarily winning but not flailing.

  33. They are adorable when they say that voting for people in the Dragon Awards will “strike back” at the Hugo voters. Absolutely no one but the people who vote on the Dragon Awards really care who wins, and even some people who vote in them are only marginally interested.

  34. @Greg Hullender: For the record (bi guy here), I strongly dislike (hate?) the word “queer.” (It doesn’t bother me as much as it used to, but I haven’t warmed to it, lemme tell you.)

    @Hampus Eckerman: Like most words, “queer” has multiple meanings, but I’ve seen/heard it far more as a replacement for GLBT-etc. than a more specific or other (non-LGBT) meaning. (I presume the Swedish HBTQ is equivalent to the U.S. GLBT/LGBT.) So, definitely some cultural differences as well as variations within countries, it seems.

    @Laura Resnick, et al.: Thanks, ideas for cookbookish things for my spouse! 😀

    @Jane Dark: I didn’t see you mention whether it’s a Kindle ebook, iBooks ebook, Kobo, B&N, or some other version. You may want to contact the ebookstore you got it from to see if they can help. (Or the publisher, I suppose.) That sounds very annoying. 🙁

  35. @Chip
    Note that clearing out past prejudiced doesn’t require that the prejudiced die, just that they learn better; cf Harry Byrd being a Klansman when he was young, or LBJ a race-baiter.

    I’m not sure that LBJ ever learned better.

  36. And it’s not ageism to point out that the Puppies, most of whom are young (and deluded or purblind about what SF used to be like), represent viewpoints that we’re better off without and that look like other viewpoints that have died as the world changed.

    Young? Vox Day and Brad Torgersen are in their 40s. Sarah Hoyt and John C Wright are in their 50s. Photos of Kate Paulk, Dave Freer, and various ohers suggests they, too, are middle-aged. Based on his account of his past, Peter Grant is bound to be in his 40s or 50s now. The youngster among them, Larry Correia, is approaching 40.

    Speaking as someone also in my 50s, none of them are young. These are not millennials or hot-headed youth or people who’ll learn with age–age is here already! Any number of people their age in our society are grandparents.

    This is not to suggest there’s anything negative about being middle-aged. But it’s not young and shouldn’t be classified as such.

  37. Laura, the calendar (and various joints) keep telling me I’m old, but my brain thinks I’m still 29 or 30. (Problems ensue.)

  38. @GregHullender & @Kendall–With me it’s all context. When queer first started being thrown around here in San Francisco, I got a kick out of it because it was a group concept. I still have my “Queer Nation” t-shirt.
    I get the whole “reclaiming” thing–this generation’s trying to make it’s mark.
    But my issue is that it’s become almost mandatory–like when the Huffington Post Gay voices became Queer voices and those who objected were basically told to shut up; a perfect example of what they call SJW intolerance.
    And I think that part of my issue with the whole thing is that it feels like my generation is being erased. I knew older men who weren’t happy with “gay” and were really upset when we started using faggot and dyke in
    public. And when some friends of a friend went to Gay Pride in 1975 wearing fairy wings. Maybe that’s it–we were claiming faggot, fairy and dyke but it felt personal. Queer just seems like too broad an umbrella.

  39. I went to the Book Horde link but when I saw that there was Donald Trump crap all over I knew it would be a waste of time. I’ve got other things to read.

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