Pixel Scroll 4/9/17 Ruler of the Pixelgram

(1) SUCCESSFUL CHARITY EVENT. Tom Edwards, one of the best cover designers in science fiction, teamed up with Parkinson’s UK and Keystroke Medium to raise money for Parkinson’s research. Three premade covers by Edwards, as well, as an editing package by Ellen Campbell, went to auction on April 8 and brought in almost 4000 pounds / $5000 US.

Sample cover

(2) FAKE NEWS PIONEER. His role was created to encourage U.S. support for Britain prior to America’s entry into WWII — “Louis deWohl: The Astrologer Who Helped Foil Hitler”.

Then, in June 1941, one of de Wohl’s more detailed predictions seemed to come true. “A strong collaborator of Hitler who is neither German nor a Nazi will go violently insane,” he foretold. “He will be in South or Central America, probably near the Caribbean Sea.” Three days later, U.S. newswires proclaimed that the Vichy High Commissioner of the French West Indies, Admiral Georges Robert, had gone insane and had to be restrained by staff. The New York Post reported that newspaper editors across America “besieged de Wohl with requests for exclusive stories.” The astrologer possessed a mysterious ability to know the unknowable, and millions of Americans wanted to know more.

The way it worked behind the facade was masterful. The British spy agency first fed information to de Wohl, which he would write up in his column. In turn, MI5 would then feed the bogus information to the U.S. press. Unable to fact-check details with the Third Reich, the American press would report the news as real, which it was not. For example, the Vichy High Commissioner of the French West Indies never went insane.

(3) TINGLE TIME AGAIN. Almost a year ago, UrsulaV wrote a series of tweets in the style of Dr. Seuss after Chuck Tingle played Vox Day, who had slated him onto the Hugo ballot. File 770’s unofficial motto is “It’s always news to somebody” – usually me – and besides, this news is practically fresh again, with Tingle renominated and pranking the porn author who replaced him on Vox’s slate.

(4) NESFA STORY CONTEST. The New England Science Fiction Association is looking for entries in its annual story contest.

Do you like to write science fiction or fantasy stories? Are you an aspiring writer, but not sure if you’re ready for the big time? Then you’re just the kind of writer we’re looking for! The New England Science Fiction Association (NESFA for short) is running a writing contest. Prizes include free books, and a grand prize of a free membership to Boskone. More important though is that we offer free critiques of your work. Our goal is to help young & aspiring writers to improve their writing, so you can become our new favorite writer! Check out our website for details:

http://www.nesfa.org/awards/storycon.html

We welcome submissions from everyone, in every country in the world (as long as it’s written in English, please!). Women, people of color, LGBTQ writers, and members of other underrepresented groups are encouraged to enter the contest.

(5) AH ROMANCE. The shortlist for the Romance Writers of America’s 2017 RITA and Golden Heart Awards was announced March 21. Here are the finalists of genre interest.

The RITA Award – “the highest award of distinction in romance fiction” — recognizes excellence in published romance novels and novellas.

Paranormal Romance

  • Bayou Shadow Hunter by Debbie Herbert Harlequin, Nocturne Ann Leslie Tuttle, editor
  • The Beast by J R Ward New American Library Kara Welsh, editor
  • The Champion of Barésh by Susan Grant Self-published Mary Moran, editor
  • Enchanted Warrior by Sharon Ashwood Harlequin, Nocturne Ann Leslie Tuttle, editor
  • Ghost Gifts by Laura Spinella Montlake Publishing Alison Dasho, editor
  • The Leopard King by Ann Aguirre Self-published Sasha Knight, editor
  • The Pages of the Mind by Jeffe Kennedy Kensington Publishing Corp. Peter Senftleben, editor
  • Where the Wild Things Bite by Molly Harper Pocket Books Abby Zidle, editor

The Golden Heart recognizes excellence in unpublished romance manuscripts.

Paranormal Romance

  • “Beryl Blue, Time Cop” by Janet Halpin
  • “Bless Your Heart and Other Southern Curses” by Heather Leonard
  • “Constant Craving” by Kari W. Cole
  • “Fire’s Rising” by Grace Adams
  • “The Mer Chronicles: Love’s Diplomatic Act” by Kate Ramirez
  • “Soul Affinity” by A. Y. Chao

Award winners will be announced on July 27 at the 2017 RWA Conference in Orlando, Florida.

(6) MESSAGE FICTION. Bleeding Cool reports “Marvel Artist Ardian Syaf Hid Anti-Christian And Jewish Messages In This Week’s X-Men Comic”. The political background to the references is:

In Indonesia, 212 is the number used to denote a specific mass protest from 2nd December last year. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims marched against the Christian governor of Jakarta, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, known as Ahok,, over allegations of blasphemy regarding his use of the Qu’ran in campaigning against opponents. The march was organised, in part, with the National Movement to Safeguard the Indonesian Ulema Council’s Fatwa. It was pretty hardline conservative and the protest demanded the government prosecute and jail Ahok based on the council’s fatwa, declaring him to be a blasphemer. This year, a 212 2.0 march with similar aims was held on the 21st of February.

(You can see the artwork at the link.)

The information comes from sources including this public Facebook post by an Indonesian comics reader:

Dear Marvel Comics My name is Haykal, I am from Jakarta, Indonesia And I would like to inform you something about your recent comics, X-Men Gold.

…I found out that on X-Men Gold comic, there’s a subliminal message of hatred towards minorities It was done by this person, a Muslim penciller from Indonesia https://www.facebook.com/ArdianSyafComicArt/

And he’s using your comics to spread hatred against non muslim minorities in Indonesia.

The “QS 5:51” on Colossus shirt refers to the Quran verse used by Muslim extremists to discriminate against the current governor which is also one of the governor candidates in the current election in Jakarta, Indonesia. https://quran.com/5/51

Bleeding Cool has since reported that Ardian Syaf was unwilling to discuss the issue with them.

Meanwhile, Marvel has made a statetment via Comicbook.com.

“The mentioned artwork in X-Men Gold #1 was inserted without knowledge behind its reported meanings. These implied references do not reflect the views of the writer, editors or anyone else at Marvel and are in direct opposition of the inclusiveness of Marvel Comics and what the X-Men have stood for since their creation. This artwork will be removed from subsequent printings, digital versions, and trade paperbacks and disciplinary action is being taken.”

Comicbook.com notes –

No further details were provided concerning how exactly Marvel will discipline Syaf. Preview art suggests that Syaf has already completed work on X-Men Gold #2, which releases on April 19. Syaf is also one of three announced rotating artists on X-Men Gold, along with RB Silva and Ken Lashley, so it may be some time before fans know for certain if he will returning to X-Men Gold.

And if you want to take a deep dive into this, Ms. Marvel writer G. Willow Wilson has a post up — Here is What Quran 5:51 Actually Says.

(7) TODAY’S DAY

Unicorn Day

What mythological creature has been more beloved over the centuries than the unicorn? Symbols of purity and enchantment, unicorns are loved by both children and adults alike and are integral parts of many fairy tales and legends. For all the roles they’ve played in literature, cinematography, and art as a whole, unicorns more than deserve their own day!

Unicorns were mentioned as far back as antiquity—ancient Greek writers believed they lived in the faraway and exotic country of India, which was then largely unknown to Europeans. However, the unicorn was then thought to be a powerful, fierce animal that was not to be meddled with. In the Middle Ages, the unicorn’s image was based greatly on Bible passages that were thought to speak of these animals, and unicorns slowly came to be seen as a symbol of strength, the purest kind of love, and the pets of virgin women. In fact, there is even a sculpture of the Virgin Mary holding a unicorn on her lap and patting it in Warsaw’s National Museum. Thus, unicorns have been appearing in works of literature for thousands of years. The most prominent more modern examples include Lewis Carroll’s Through the Looking Glass, J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, and The Last Battle by S.C. Lewis. The whole immensely popular My Little Pony franchise is also based on unicorns.

(8) TODAY IN HISTORY

  • April 9, 1959 — NASA introduced the first seven astronauts to the press.

(9) BIG FINISH. The Washington Post’s Michael O’Sullivan interviews director Nacho Vigilando, whose film Colossal is a fusion of kaihu eige and romantic comedy that will be released this Friday.

Q: In that film [7:35 in the Morning], you critique the cliches of the movie musical by staging a song-and-dance number in a diner with seemingly ordinary people. “Extraterrestrial” plays with the tropes of the alien invasion movie. In “Colossal,” you do something similar with the genre of the monster movie. What’s so fascinating about genre cinema?

A: The moment in “Colossal” that sums up what you’re talking about is when Gloria calls her ex-boyfriend, because she wants to talk about this monster that is invading South Korea. And he responds by asking, “Why are you calling so late? That happened early this morning.” He thinks that means she has spent the whole day just sleeping. I’m really attracted to the idea of playing inside these sandboxes, in which everybody in the audience knows the rules. Our expectations of these films become part of the show somehow. I admire Superman, but am I a kind person all the time, the way Superman is? How can I relate to a character who has an “S” on his chest, since there are moments in my life when I behave like an a—— to other people?

(10) COUNTING THE PUPPIES. Greg Hullender has written up his analysis of the 2017 Puppy vote at Rocket Stack Rank“Slating Analysis: 2017”. He says, “I get a slightly higher number than you did: 88-118. I make up for that with some cool graphs.”

Now that the 2017 Hugo Awards Finalists lists have come out, we can estimate how many slate voters there were. By our calculations, there were between 88 and 118 of them. This is just slightly higher than Mike Glyer’s estimate of  “80 to 90”. When the detailed statistics are available in August, we’ll make a more precise estimate, using the methods we used in our article Slate Voting Analysis Using EPH Data: 2014-2016

(11) A THREE BLACK HOLE RATING. The Guardian shares Jay Rayner’s brutal review of Le Cinq, Paris, a Michelin 3-star restaurant.

Other things are the stuff of therapy. The canapé we are instructed to eat first is a transparent ball on a spoon. It looks like a Barbie-sized silicone breast implant, and is a “spherification”, a gel globe using a technique perfected by Ferran Adrià at El Bulli about 20 years ago. This one pops in our mouth to release stale air with a tinge of ginger. My companion winces. “It’s like eating a condom that’s been left lying about in a dusty greengrocer’s,” she says. Spherifications of various kinds – bursting, popping, deflating, always ill-advised – turn up on many dishes. It’s their trick, their shtick, their big idea. It’s all they have. Another canapé, tuile enclosing scallop mush, introduces us to the kitchen’s love of acidity. Not bright, light aromatic acidity of the sort provided by, say, yuzu. This is blunt acidity of the sort that polishes up dulled brass coins.

Do you think we could get a Kickstarter funded if he turned his jaded eye in the direction of the Puppies Forbidden Thoughts anthology?

(12) CRETACEOUS TASTINESS. When you hear a bell, think of tacos — TriceraTACOs, that is.

(13) THE PLANE TRUTH. John Scalzi does not get enough credit for his restraint.

(14) IN MEDEA RACE. “The Ballad of Maui Hair” is practically a companion piece to “The Anthem Sprinters.” These tweets just begin to set the scene:

(15) SONG AND DANCE MAN. In 1993, Christopher Walken appeared on Saturday Zoo with Jonathan Ross (who later got uninvited as toastmaster of the 2014 Worldcon in historic record time.) Walken gave an inimitable reading of “The Three Little Pigs.”

[Thanks to John King Tarpinian, Martin Morse Wooster, Cat Eldridge, and Rev. Bob for some of these stories. Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editor of the day Tom Becker.]

224 thoughts on “Pixel Scroll 4/9/17 Ruler of the Pixelgram

  1. I’ve not seen the reboot as of yet. The commercials didn’t inspire much enthusiasm for me. A couple of the actresses aren’t in my prime zone, but tastes vary…as they say.

    The guys over at the Cinema Sins “Sincast” weren’t overly impressed. The one point they made that I found most telling was that they thought it would have been a better movie if it had been written by Tina Fey. In their opinion, not only is Ms. Fey a great writer, but she knows how to write funny women. Given the talent they had in the movie, Ms. Fey would have probably written better gags.

    [They didn’t say she was a great female writer, but a great writer who has within her rhetorical toolbox the skills needed to write funny stuff for female actors.]

    Hopefully, I’ll be able to see all the films in time to rank them on the ballot accordingly.

    @Hampus

    Man you are giving me fits tonight. I’m following along with your thoughts on Ghostbusters and nodding my head. And then you drop the bit about Great Coats being a “Mary Sue”??!!?!?!?!?!??!?!!???

    There are just so many layers to that series that I am officially boggled.

    As has been said in this thread so many times…opinions vary…and it’s nice that there are a variety of opinions, but….oooo…..just….ooooo.

    To start with, they are a great story. Absent any other considerations, it is one of those “rip roarin’, rootin’-tootin'” things we hear about. Engaging characters, inventive world-building, suspense, etc.

    Then layer on top of that add a main character that regrets his most significant failure every single day of his life. When faced with death, he let his wife save his life instead of giving his for her. That one moment shapes the rest of his life. Even when he is offered a way out, he refuses because he still sees women in need of rescue.

    Layer on top of that the many female characters that tell him “no thanks, we don’t need your saving services….we’re tough enough on our own”.

    Layer on top of that the various meditations on the harm of unlimited power/government and the utility of having a common set of rules that no person can break regardless of their position. Opinions do vary, but a “mary sue”???!!??!

    ??!!??!

    Again, glad you stayed clear of the recent nastiness and are in one piece.

    Regards,
    Dann

  2. (10) Apologies if I overlooked prior mention of this point, but for Best Dramatic, Short Form, the RSR analysis shows a RP pick being a finalist. But two GoT episodes got through while the RP pick was eliminated by the “only two per show” rule. I’m not sure if this could be used to further refine block size estimates at this point.

    (I should probably pick up a real person ID to post at RSR, but it won’t happen tonight, so…)

  3. What I’ve liked in Hugo Finalist Novels were: Larry’s work, John Ringo’s work,

    John Ringo has never had a work make the Hugo finalists. Are you sure you’ve been paying attention to the Hugo ballots over the last few years?

  4. But from those who have seen it, is there any real reason to believe that someone who found the first 45 minutes unpleasant is likely to change his/her mind after that? Does it really turn into a different kind of movie?

    Several of the characters have story arcs that only pay off later in the movie. It doesn’t necessarily change in overall tone, but several of the things that have been singled out as annoying are explained later, or turn out to be the set-up for character growth.

  5. I’m inclined to agree with Greg Hullender here… yes, if you’re under some obligation (professional or self-imposed) to review something, you need to see/hear/read it from start to finish… but I think damn near everyone will have formed a preliminary opinion, at least, by the time they’re a third of the way through, and most of us will have a shrewd notion of how likely it is that the remaining two-thirds will carry on in the same vein.

    For that matter, if it’s a piece of general, popular-appeal stuff like Ghostbusters – something that is not meant to be daunting or difficult – then, surely, you could argue that if someone bounces off it in the first half-hour or so, that in itself is a failing? Maybe not a fatal flaw, maybe not enough to condemn the whole movie out of hand – but, well, a failing.

    (I haven’t seen the new Ghostbusters, so I’ve no opinion on it. Some of the reviews make it sound entertaining… but so did the reviews of the original version, and I found that one rather slow and laboured, and surprisingly short on laughs. YMMV. And mine obviously does.)

  6. Dann:

    No, problem, I’ll continue here.

    I found the Greatcoat hero to be a typical Mary Sue. The hero is fantastically good, he beats even those that are better than him. He is good at tactics, at fighting, at inspiring people, at… He has the romantic layer of never ending love for his wife, he is willing to lay down his life for anything, brave torture, and so on.

    He is a typical idealistic male fantasy. And his friends, his band of brothers, the classic comradeship. So yes, a Marty Stue if you so will.

    I still like the book though, very much. And the Marty Stue stuff that tugs on my emotions are part of that. That apart from worldbuilding, the well written action and so on.

  7. @Hampus

    Sure….but Kest is by far better with the sword and Brasti is better with the bow. And Falcio is initially broken down before his king can build him back up.

    If he’s the “best” at anything, it is at being bull-headed at finishing the current task regardless of whether anyone other than him sees the task as worthwhile. He ends up getting his butt beat pretty badly in each book. Not very Marty-Sue-ish, IMO.

    I guess I’m just seeing some layers there that really work for me.

    Regards,
    Dann

  8. I can confirm my library ebook version of Leviathan Wakes also came with The Dragon’s Path as a surprise bonus when I checked it out a year and half-ish ago. It was definitely LW that had the bonus book, because I had the rest of the Expanse already downloaded. (I had to wait until after vacation to get the other Coin and Dagger books).

    Yeah, Rev. Bob inspired me to research this. I had thought there was an indie first version, but I was in error. That was a marketing effort by Orbit. Everyone who bought one book, got the other as well.

  9. @rcade, Aaron, et al.: “Movies aren’t sandwiches.”

    I seem to recall a large amount of “how much can I read of the Puppy nominees before I have to stop?” discussion here on 770 in the last couple of years. Where was the “you have to read it ALL before you get to have an opinion on it” sentiment then?

    Or is there a double standard in play that I missed the memo on, due to lacking a furry SJW credential? Maybe movies are somehow different?

  10. Where was the “you have to read it ALL before you get to have an opinion on it” sentiment then?

    You’re asking me a question my last comment already answered. I reject Aaron’s argument that you have to experience a work in full (or anywhere close to that) to have a valid opinion on it. I don’t think it’s bad faith to say “I quit Ghostbusters after 30 minutes because the movie was so terrible.” I don’t think it’s a valueless opinion.

    I just thought your sandwich analogy was bad. Not as bad as a rancid sandwich, but still …

  11. Where was the “you have to read it ALL before you get to have an opinion on it” sentiment then?

    I read them all before I offered opinions on them.

  12. @kathodus:

    I have allergies, not pets. I like cats and dogs just fine, but I pay a price for visiting them.

  13. I have zero patience for anyone who complains that there are Hugo Finalists they don’t like.

    This is an award given by a widely diverse group, and it is hardly surprising that there will be things on the ballot that any one person does not like.

    I found 3 of the 6 Novel Finalists unreadable. 2 more of them I haven’t read yet, because I did not love the previous books in the series and haven’t yet been able to force myself to give up reading things I enjoy in order to give those 2 Finalists a read.

    3 of the Novellas I thought were interesting but not award-worthy (and I am so fucking over the constant Lovecraft rehashes, homages, and deconstructions — seriously, have some authors never read anything but Lovecraft??? Why don’t they read something different for a change???), and I enjoyed the Penric but thought that the other novel-length one released last year is the better of the two. One of the Novellas was such a ridiculously sappy romance with no other real story to it, that I had to stop reading 1/4 of the way in.

    So. Of the 6 Novels and 6 Novellas, I really only think 1 of each belongs on the ballot. 3 of the Novelettes, and 2 of the Short Stories I think belong on the ballot.

    But you don’t hear me whining about the ballot. Because I absolutely believe that the people who nominated those other works genuinely loved them just as much as I didn’t love them.

    I am so sick of Puppies whining that the Hugo ballot does not perfectly reflect their reading tastes. Grow up and get the hell over it. 🙄

  14. I loved the new “Ghostbusters”, even though I would not, as the saying goes, micturate on Wiig or McCarthy were they to spontaneously combust. The himbo was amusing as all get-out (Hemsworth is good in comedy), Jones was good with a somewhat underwritten part, and McKinnon was superb. The effects were cool and well-used (I really liked the mixup of past and present in Times Square). The husband and I watched it as our Saturday night date video and we both LOL several times. I put it on my ballot because it was one of the 5 best SF/F/H movies I saw last year. I’m happy it made the finals. Despite being a remake, it was much more fresh than some of the new movies; note there were no Marvel blockbusters in the category this year. I think the advertising campaign really didn’t get the idea across well; the trailers were meh. I also appreciated that it was less gross-out humor than the original and much less mean-spirited.

    @Rev Bob: I got an ebook of “Leviathan Wakes” a few years back, maybe when the 3rd or 4th book was about to come out, and it had the free copy of “Dagger and Coin” attached too. Bonus book, I was fine with it. Click your way through if you’re that worried about your Goodreads stats. And buy a robot cat.

    Puppies not understanding humor (especially proper parody) is a pretty common thing with them, as is picking and choosing what is and isn’t “correct” with no consistency (while insisting they’re perfectly logical). And of course, retconning, where first Larry had a wonderful time and was greatly honored, then later decided he was horribly insulted and needed to rig the awards so he could win one illegitimately. No, it was to make liberal heads explode. He recruited Teddy for this aim. No, he had absolutely nothing to do with getting the Rabids involved. Etc.

    Who are we gonna believe, Larry at the time or Larry a few years later when he’s dimly realized he did assholish and stupid things and wants to pretend it never happened? Sad!

  15. Ghostbusters surprised me, but it only goes to show that it is hard to predict how much those who like something really like it. Which is even harder when you’re not the target group.

    The nomination round is to get a mix. The next round is to see what is liked by the larger group, so I have no big problems with this. Now, if there had only been candidates of exactly the same kind…

  16. @JJ: Exactly! I think Thomas Olde Heuvelt is a terrible writer and people should stop putting him on the ballot. And I think Kai Ashante Wilson usually can’t stick the ending to a story if his life depended on it, but lots of other people disagree, so okay. There’s 2 Novels I don’t think should have been anywhere near the ballot, a non-Pup short story that like WTF? 2 Dramatic/Long, 2 Dramatic/Short, 1 non-Pup zine and Fancast. I’m happy with all the Best Series, but I hear a lot of complaining about them (much of it uninformed). There have been and will continue to be things on the Hugo ballot written by friends of mine that I don’t think deserve to be there, which I didn’t nominate.

    If nothing in the Hugos ever suits your particular taste, then quit your bitching and ignore them. Obviously they’re not for you. If you like it more lit’rary, try the Nebulas. If you like it More Manly Men Military, read Baen (minus Lee and Miller). Try the Prometheus, the Dragons… chortle okay, not that, until they get a one person/one vote system so we know they’re actually the will of the majority and aren’t just script kiddie losers sitting in their mom’s basement hitting refresh.

    I mean, there’s two overlaps this year between the Hugos and the Oscars for Best Movie. Probably a record; most years there aren’t any. So I don’t look to the Oscars to tell me what I’d enjoy in sci-fi movie going. I don’t look to the Booker Prize for light reading, or the Newbery Medal for complex works dealing with adult concerns.

  17. To be honest, I was somewhat surprised by the nominations in the long form Dramatic Presentation category, but only because neither Civil War or Doctor Strange were nominated. I have come to expect that one of the slots will be filled by one of the big Marvel-arc movies every year, so not having either of 2016’s entries in the series on the ballot seems weird. On the other hand, I’m not going to get all bent out of shape over their absence.

  18. I have no qualms anymore about giving up on a movie or a book. There was a time when I felt the need to finish what I start; I was such a completist. Experience has shown me that if it’s bad to start with, it’s not going to get better.

    Sure, maybe one day, I’ll quit a movie or a book halfway, and miss out on an amazing experience because the rest of it was so great. But do such things really exist?

    Q: Excluding episodic serial programmes because many take some time to find their voice (like e.g. Babylon 5 for me) are there any examples movies/books that start off badly but end up great, rewarding persistence?

    Or are we talking about unicorns here?

    @Aaron,
    Doctor Strange was a decent movie about a magical cloak & its sidekick if you ignore the whitewashing. Civil War would have been entirely unnecessary if Cap & Tony just talked to each other, though it had some nice setpieces. I’m not upset that neither made the final ballot. I enjoyed them both but don’t think they’re Hugo calibre.

  19. @Soon Lee: Like I said, I’m not getting bent out shape over neither of them appearing on the ballot. It just seems weird and unexpected.

  20. are there any examples movies/books that start off badly but end up great, rewarding persistence?

    I really didn’t like Stars in My Pocket, Like Grains of Sand for the first hundred or so pages. I gave up on it three times before I cracked that barrier, and the rest was really quite good.

    I thought The Usual Suspects was dull as hell until the final moments of the movie.

  21. @Contrarius: there are dragons further on in “The Dagger and the Coin”; any discussion might be a spoiler. I thought this pentalogy was outstanding, including nailing the ending instead of just cutting off; the principle nerd is treated harshly from the beginning, but if you think about how some nerds turn out this is not implausible.

    @airboy: Nominators may have been turned off by several logical holes in Miss Peregrine’s; I’d put it behind Ghostbusters despite my tendency to like oddball work.

  22. re Ghostbusters: I liked it well enough. I really liked Holtzman, and the running joke with Hemsworth’s character. The plotting wasn’t stellar or anything, but overall it was, for me, a nice brain-candy treat where I didn’t have to think too much – the same reason I also watch shows like Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow, Dr Who…

    Marvel movies: agreed with Soon Lee. I like Marvel movies well enough but I don’t think there are too many I’d ever nominate for a major award, beyond technical categories.

    @airboy: christ, I thought Easter was weeks ago?

  23. @Aaron – Surely you are not suggesting the new Ghostbusters movie is on the same level as Delany or The Usual Suspects?

  24. Surely you are not suggesting the new Ghostbusters movie is on the same level as Delany or The Usual Suspects?

    I’m not sure how one would make a comparison between such disparate works, but Soon asked for examples and those two came to my mind.

    I do think Ghostbusters gets better as one watches further into it, which I think is generally true of most movies. If one walked out of, say Doctor Strange a half an hour into the movie, one would easily come to the conclusion that Strange was an insufferable dick and the other characters weren’t much better. Any assessment of the movie on that basis would clearly be flawed. Similarly, if one watched the first half an hour of Arrival and then left, do you think that you could give a worthwhile assessment of the movie? The notion that you can properly assess a movie after only watching its opening act seems to me to be a silly one at best.

  25. On the other hand, a work that has a significant fraction of it’s readers/viewers wanting to walk away from it even 1/3 of the way into it, is clearly flawed. It may have virtues that overcome those flaws (and which reward the persistent), but there’s really no way to argue that it’s not flawed.

  26. On the other hand, a work that has a significant fraction of it’s readers/viewers wanting to walk away from it even 1/3 of the way into it, is clearly flawed.

    Yes. It has women in lead roles behaving in ways that most people don’t expect women to behave on film. That washes away a lot of people right there.

    Let me put it this way: I’ve seen a lot of people expressing dismay over the fact that Ghostbusters got onto the list of finalists. Every last one of those people has been male. I have seen many people expressing their love for the movie. The majority of those people have been female. I don’t think this is a coincidence.

  27. Aaron: I’ve seen a lot of people expressing dismay over the fact that Ghostbusters got onto the list of finalists. Every last one of those people has been male.

    Oh, I’m quite sure that Lamplighter, Hoyt, Paulk, and Green all think it was a horrible movie too, and that the female main characters should have been getting married and popping out babies at home for the men from whom they were stealing those ghostbusting jobs. 🙄

  28. Oh, I’m quite sure that Lamplighter, Hoyt, Paulk, and Green all think it was a horrible movie too

    Maybe so, but I stopped paying attention to those four long ago.

  29. @Aaron – it was my wife that got so sick of Ghostbusters she wanted it turned off. I just thought it was bad, but not unwatchable. So your SJW theory does not hold up all of the time. But Ghostbusters was no Assassins Creed which drove both of us off after 12 minutes.

    I’m surprised it was a finalist. But as Greg pointed out liking 5 out of 6 is unusual.

    @JJ – do you always drop F-bombs and other cursing when someone does not agree with the Hugo finalists and expressed their opinion? Is it really that central to your life?

  30. it was my wife that got so sick of Ghostbusters she wanted it turned off. I just thought it was bad, but not unwatchable. So your SJW theory does not hold up all of the time.

    It is an observation, not an “SJW theory”. You really need to learn to read better if you want to have conversations with people in written form. You came here to whine about the fact that Ghostbusters made it to the Hugo finalists list. Your wife didn’t.

    Let me reiterate: The only people I have seen express dismay over the fact that Ghostbusters made the list of Hugo finalists have been male. This observation is still true as of the time that I am writing this.

    I have seen many people expressing their love for Ghostbusters. The majority of people doing so have been female. This is also still true as of the time I am writing this.

    That’s not a “theory”. That’s direct observation.

    Finally, I have never seen anyone use the term “SJW” in earnest who was not a complete and total asshat and a mouth-drooling idiot. That is also based on direct observation. Maybe you should think on that a bit.

  31. Lots of people have bailed out a great deal before 1/3 of James Joyce, Tolstoy, Homer, Shakespeare, etc. etc. We don’t say those are flawed works undeserving of appreciation.

    90% of the hatred for “Ghostbusters” is because it stars women and doesn’t give a crap about the male gaze, let’s face it. If you didn’t like it for other reasons, good for you. If you claim you didn’t like it for other reasons but have shown a pattern of male chauvinism before, you may be lying. If you thought it was worse than “Ghostbusters II”, you have terrible taste in movies.

    @Aaron: I was surprised but not displeased that no Marvel blockbuster made the finalists. Has that happened since we’ve had Marvel blockbusters? I didn’t think this year’s output was Hugo-worthy either, but I thought there might be enough ladies to get Dr. Strange on the ballot. Is it a Cumberbacklash? Or did his weird-ass “American” accent put everyone off along with the “meh” movie and whitewashing?

    I’m sure they’ll cry all the way to the bank, and be back next year with GOTG2, Spiderman, or Logan.

    Miss Peregrine had a lousy ad campaign, and people are bored with Tim Burton’s recycled schtick and quirks. People in a theater I saw the trailer in groaned audibly when his name came up. Art direction does not a movie make.

  32. airboy: do you always drop F-bombs and other cursing when someone does not agree with the Hugo finalists and expressed their opinion? Is it really that central to your life?

    I recall a discussion here where you got incredibly personally abusive to me because I disagreed with your opinion.

    You have no moral high ground to call me out on anything.

    Ever. 🙄

  33. I’m sure they’ll cry all the way to the bank, and be back next year with GOTG2, Spiderman, or Logan.

    Just to be pedantic: Logan is not a “Marvel” movie. It is part of the X-Men franchise, and thus Marvel doesn’t have the movie rights to the story. The same is true of Deadpool and X-Men: Apocalypse.

  34. Ultimately, Ghostbusters was not in the least a groundbreaking movie. That applies to either movie with that title. A lot of angry men (and some women) on the internet hated the second one because of girl cooties, but a lot of angry men and women on the internet hated it because it was a typical mediocre SNL-cast comedy.

    Tangentially, as surprising as it is (to me), I have recently seen the term SJW used justifiably by someone who is absolutely not a jerk. I doubt it holds up throughout the US, but in the SF Bay Area, and particularly in Oakland, there is now a growing SJW problem. This is something that was inconceivable pre-Trump, but post-11/9 some folk who used to be perfectly reasonable have gone total Stalinist*/SJW. I say this as someone who six months ago would have said that unironic use of the term SJW was a sign of neo-fascism. I still won’t use it myself, generally, because it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, but there are people around here who are living down to the term. They are wading deep in this leftist version of the Satanic Panic.

    * By Stalinist, I mean people who are stoked on Stalin, and defend Stalin, and are actually Stalinist, not the villains of Hoyt’s fever dreams who just want universal health care and a decent education system.

  35. I was shocked that Ghostbusters (2016) is a Hugo Finalist.

    Of course you were. Bless your heart.

  36. @JJ
    I found 3 of the 6 Novel Finalists unreadable. . . . One of the Novellas was such a ridiculously sappy romance with no other real story to it, that I had to stop reading 1/4 of the way in. . . .But you don’t hear me whining about the ballot.

  37. @Aaron: “If one walked out of, say Doctor Strange a half an hour into the movie, one would easily come to the conclusion that Strange was an insufferable dick and the other characters weren’t much better.”

    Thinking back on the movie, even by the end, is that really incorrect? Sure, Strange gets some humility pounded into him by the time the credits roll, but he’s hardly cured of his arrogance. He’s just learned to harness it for good – which, arguably, he was doing in the opening scenes. His tools have changed, but has his attitude?

    As for being pedantic: Deadpool, Logan, and X-Men: Apocalypse are just as much “Marvel movies” as GOTG2, Doctor Strange, Captain America: Civil War, and even Elektra, Ghost Rider, and Fantastic Four. Every last one of those stars Marvel-owned characters whose adventures appear in comic books published by Marvel; how can they not be “Marvel movies”?

    What the middle three examples have in common that the rest don’t is that they’re part of the MCU subset of Marvel movies, the technical name for what we might call the “Avengers franchise” to distinguish it from the “mutant franchise” or the earlier “Spidey franchise.” But they’re all Marvel properties, and Stan Lee gets a cut off of all of ’em.

    If you’re going to be pedantic, it helps to be right.

  38. Kurt Busiek:

    “Of course you were. Bless your heart.”

    They never showed Ghostbusters in Maui.

  39. @Rev. Bob: Count me as another who gets irritated at publishers messing with font size. I’ve even found a few ebooks with too-large fonts. If they’d all just leave it alone, then however we customize our ereaders/software would make all books look equally good to us. iBooks should remember font settings per book (granted, I rarely bounce between ebooks). A “default body text to size X” would be nice, though I realize “how do you determine what’s body text” is a bit of a problem.

    BTW I’ve never gotten a bonus book-in-a-book. I’m jealous!

  40. @Various: I consider “Deadpool” to be a Marvel blockbuster. (shrug) It’s a blockbuster starring a Marvel character; not all of us pay attention to who owns which movie rights. Does anyone call it a “FOX blockbuster” (which IMHO would be confusing)? Anyway, thanks to a couple of people upthread for clarifying what folks meant by “wow, no Marvel blockbuster.”

    @Various, Redux: I didn’t nominate “Ghostbusters,” but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed a few other movies better, but it doesn’t bother me that “Ghostbusters” is a finalist. The two movies I nominated will go first on my ballot (unless “Stranger Things” super-wows me), but “Ghostbusters” probably won’t go last.

    BTW my “male gaze” liked Hemsworth just fine. Or should I not admit that? 😉

    @Hampus Eckerman: “They never showed Ghostbusters in Maui.” – LOL.

  41. your SJW theory

    I find this use of SJW hilarious!
    SJW means “Social justice warrior”. Who is a Social Justice Warrior? Well, Batman fights for justice obviously (he is a member of the JUSTICE league for crying out loud!) , so is Captain America. Apparnetly thats not a good thing, Airboy? Do you hate Batman?
    And with all due respect for Aaron and my fellow filers, they dont strike me as the Fighting type. So if you call them “Warriors”, I guess you mean it in the socialist sense, that everybody should work (or fight in this matter) to the best of their ability, i.e. with words in this case. So are you are socialist, airboy or are you seriously thinking that Aaron is a vigilante who fights the big cooperations at night, like green arrow? Maybe he is Green arrow? I dont know, I stoped watching mid-season 1.

    But back to the question at hand: If you prefer the socialist interpretation, that he fights for justice using words, then why dont you? Do you prefer injustice? Or are you just too lazy to fight for anything? I guess the former, which leads to the question: Why do you like injustice? And if you hate people fighting it, doesnt it make you a villain?
    Or do you just dont know what “SJW” meant? And what it means for people using this word on people they dont agree with? Well, know you know. Im glad to serve! Does this makes me a SJW already or am I just a vigilante?

  42. What lurkertype said (all of them).
    I loved the all-women Ghostbusters, enough to buy the DVD and rewatch it several times. Part of my enjoyment was seeing Leslie Jones and Kate MacKinnon’s work. Both were entirely new to me. But while Ghostbusters was a hoot, Hidden Figures was inspiring and Arrival a great work of art. Not to start another argument, but Amy Adams’ absence from the 2017 Oscar nominees was as mystifying as Emma Thompson missing out after Saving Mr Banks.

  43. @Msb:

    Part of my enjoyment was seeing Leslie Jones and Kate MacKinnon’s work. Both were entirely new to me.

    When I see that movie (haven’t yet–not a big moviegoer–but I expect I will), I probably won’t be able to tell if it’s any good because I am so blown away by the two of them. I’m not a television watcher, either, but I’ve been spending a lot of time with SNL on YouTube lately, more because of them than not.

    Now, if it really sucks, yeah, I’ll probably be able to tell that. But anything short of absolute failure will look pretty good to me, because those two are so great.

  44. @Soon Lee: Babylon 5 is the most striking example of “overcoming the bad start”, but Star Trek the Next Generation, Stargate SG-1 and Buffy also all took a while to really get going. At least, and as always, IMO.

    As far as Ghostbusters, it does too-slavishly try to hit the same plot beats and notes as the original, to its detriment, instead of being its own thing.. It weakens the movie. However, given those weaknesses, I am on record (on the S&F podcast) as having enjoyed it a lot (even if that haunted house in the opening act is actually a building in…Boston. (New Yorker me was not amused 😉 ))

  45. are there any examples movies/books that start off badly but end up great, rewarding persistence?

    In the first part of Uprooted, Agnieszka is a rather passive character and is mainly observing things, failing at things, and whining about her life. I grew increasingly annoyed at that and was starting to think about giving up. However, about a quarter or so into the book there’s an Incident With Cows, and Agnieszka takes a more active role. After that the book is much more interesting, and I ended up putting it at the top of my Hugo ballot that year.

  46. As for being pedantic: Deadpool, Logan, and X-Men: Apocalypse are just as much “Marvel movies” as GOTG2, Doctor Strange, Captain America: Civil War, and even Elektra, Ghost Rider, and Fantastic Four. Every last one of those stars Marvel-owned characters whose adventures appear in comic books published by Marvel; how can they not be “Marvel movies”?

    They aren’t Marvel movies because they were not produced by Marvel. Marvel sold the movie rights to those characters to other companies, who now produce those movies. They are not Marvel properties any more because Marvel literally sold them to someone else.

  47. They are not Marvel properties any more because Marvel literally sold them to someone else.

    I wouldn’t say they were “literally sold.” The characters were licensed to a studio, just like all Marvel super-hero movies before the company became a moviemaker.

    To me any movie involving a Marvel Comics character is a Marvel movie. I’m not invested in which studio does which character.

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