aka Muttropolis.
Last roundup tomorrow, July 6.
Banner art changes tomorrow.
What the future holds for File 770 arrives tomorrow!
Meanwhile, roundup content today is provided by Lou Antonelli, Joseph Tomaras, Jonathan Crowe, Laura “Tegan” Gjovaag, Mark Ciocco, Lis Carey, Len Schiff, and Bonnie McDaniel. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Will Reichard and Brad J. Book cover lifted from Will Reichard’s “Wishlist: Soviet Space Dogs”.)
Lou Antonelli on This Way to Texas
“Genrecide” – July 5
The dispute that arose when the Sad Puppy selections did so well in the Hugo nominations has probably created a permanent split of science fiction fans – not one created by the literature, but for social reasons.
Both sides have said such horrible things about each other that I doubt the rift will ever be healed. I wouldn’t be surprised if some semantic distinction arises later – such as the Sad Puppies’ type of fiction being called spec fic as opposed to science fiction.
Teresa Nielsen Hayden and her blog Making Light started the civil war when she realized her chums – the usual suspects – were not getting their Hugo nomination notice emails as usual. She blew up and started the vituperation a week before the actual announcement was made – proving the point, as Larry Corriea was pointed out, that there is an insider clique after all.
Mike Glyer, who’s been running his fan site File 770 since dirt was invented, unfortunately has kept the wildfires burning by collecting up Puppy posts and republishing them on his site. The comments threads there have become the clearing house for all Puppy Kicker resentment.
I don’t believe either side of completely right or completely wrong, but it really doesn’t matter anymore, because regardless of how or who started it, and how it ends, thanks to the internet too much has been said attacking too many people by so many people that there will probably be a long-term drop in readership and popular support.
Perhaps in the future people will say they read magic realism, or space opera, or dystopia, or alternate history – but as a result of the Puppy Wars, no one will actually want to admit they read “science fiction” because of all the negative connotations in the wake of the current unpleasantness.
Joseph Tomaras on A Skinseller’s Workshop
“I Lied: A Few More Words about the Hugos” – July 5
….As more people post their ballots and/or their critical response to the items on the ballot, I have been surprised at how critical judgment on Kary English’s “Totaled” has lined up. People who fault contemporary SF for leaving too little room for ambiguity have criticized it for unclear, unreliable narration in the early sections. (To which I respond: As if a recently revived brain-in-a-jar would be a reliable narrator.) People who have a habit of calling for “good stories” in the whiz-bang mode of military SF have praised the story for its emotional trajectory. It has scrambled the factional lines, and that, I think, suggests a few points in its favor. There is room for dispute over it, and is worth being revisited and debated on aesthetic grounds.
What I think is indisputable, unfortunately, is how thoroughly English herself stumbled over the politics of this year’s hyper-politicized Hugo. She went months after the announcement of the ballots before disavowing both the Sad and Rabid Puppies slates on which she had been placed: Long enough that most of the anti-canine wings of the Hugo electorate had already dismissed her as a fellow traveler, but not long enough to avoid the wrath of the Rabid Majordomo himself. I take this as an object lesson in how the center-right, quasi-depoliticized “common sense” that passes as “moderation” in the U.S. context can succeed, in a global context, only in pissing people off, whether in small matters (e.g. the Hugos) or in big ones (e.g. Guantánamo, drone bombings).
Jonathan Crowe
“Best Saga Proposal Revised” – July 5
So the proposal for a Best Saga Hugo Award (see previous entry) has since been revised: they’ve abandoned getting rid of Best Novelette, which was needlessly zero-sum, and have lowered the minimum word count. The proposal now says 300,000 words; the draft posted to File 770 at more or less the same time says 240,000. A series cannot win more than once, but it can certainly be nominated multiple times (so long as two new installments requalifies it) until it wins — I think of this as the “my favourite series better damn well win this time” provision.
I’m still not a fan: it’s going to be a popularity contest for very popular (if not always good) ongoing series. And any minimum word count is going to be exclusionary. A 240,000-word lower limit would have rendered ineligible the original Foundation trilogy — which won a one-off “Best All-Time Series” Hugo in 1966.
And as far as I can tell the amendment would still allow series to appear on the Best Novel ballot when the final installment is published, like The World of Time did last year.
Laura “Tegan” Gjovaag on Bloggity-Blog-Blog-Blog
“Hugo Blatherings” – July 5
Still, it means I’m going to be part of Worldcon for at least the next two and a half years. I’ll be voting in two more Hugos after this one. And I’ll be trying to actively look for things to nominate, as well. I’ll be checking out Renay’s Hugo Spreadsheet of Doom and the Hugo Nominees 2016 Wikia regularly once I’ve finished with this year’s packet to look for suggestions to read. I’ve already got a couple of things I plan to nominate, and a few more I haven’t finished reading yet but I think might make my list. I’ll post a few lists of possible nominations as I go, and once the deadline for nominations has passed, I might even post my actual nomination form.
The round-ups at File 770 have slowed down, mostly because there just isn’t that much to talk about the Hugos right now. Everyone is busy going through the packets or have finished voting and are just waiting for the convention. I fully expect another fake outrage to be manufactured soon, but I can’t guess what direction it will come from. I’ve been continuing to read David Gerrold on Facebook… he’s the guy that got me into this whole kerfuffle in the first place. I don’t think I would have cared as much if not for him.
Mark Ciocco on Kaedrin Weblog
“Hugo Awards: Novella” – July 5
The other shorter-than-a-novel-but-longer-than-a-short-story category, these tend to be longer reads, which is a shame because I didn’t particularly care for any of them. It’s also one of the weirder categories in that three of the five nominees are from the same author. Two of the stories are also significantly expanded versions of much shorter stories (which, given my complaints below, would probably have been much better for me). None of the nominees are particularly terrible, per say, I just failed to connect with them, and it makes me wish there was a little more variety here. I don’t want too dwell on this, so let’s just get to it:…
[Comments on all five nominees.]
For the first time this year, I’m actually thinking about deploying No Award on my ballot, if only to get past the ridiculous notion that one author wrote the three best novellas of the year or something. I mean, I guess such a thing is possible, but not with these three stories. That being said, Wright also wrote my clear favorite of the bunch, so I’m not slotting No Award very high.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
This is a Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form nominee for the 2015 Hugos. This is not a movie with any deep thoughts in its head. It’s pure, fun, over-the-top adventure, with colorful space battles and explosions…..
Bonnie McDaniel on Red Headed Femme
“The Hugo Project: Campbell Award” – July 5
(Note: This is the latest in an ongoing series of posts reviewing as many of the 2015 Hugo nominees as I can before the July 31 deadline, and explaining why I will or will not vote for them.)
The John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer advertises itself, famously, as “not-a-Hugo,” celebrating what the Worldcon community decides is the best new science fiction/fantasy writer of the year. Unfortunately, like so much of the rest of the ballot, this category has been tainted by the shenanigans of the Impacted Canines.
(Forgive me for sounding testy. Several weeks of slogging through godawfully bad stories not worth their weight in puppy piss will do that to you. I mean, if you’re going to behave lawfully-but-unethically and game the awards, can’t you at least nominate something halfway decent? Apparently not, as most of the ballot proves.)
Listed from worst to best….
[Comments on all five nominees.]
Check out @CoraBuhlert's guest column "SFR and the Hugo Awards" in the free @SciFiRomance Quarterly #7 http://t.co/2EEdJ3p2L4 #scifiromance
— ThGalaxyExpress (@ThGalaxyExpress) July 5, 2015
[Nothing to do with Sad Puppies, but an interesting article.]
The Sad Puppies Desaturation Fund To Promote Whiteness In Science Fiction Awards #BadCharitiesToDonateTo
— Len Schiff (@Golem_of_Queens) July 5, 2015
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And of course it was possible for a highly regarded writer with many, many publications to write disapprovingly about humans committing genocide to take the resources of planets which had their own sentient species.
In 1932.
I can only conclude that Puppidum is both ignorant of the history of SF/F, and not at all keen on doing anything which might dispel that ignorance…
So Long, and Thanks for All the Gish
[last kick at a subtitle]
So let’s think. What else are we denied by clinging to the Human Wave directive? Jem by Fredrick Pohl springs to mind.
@Stevie:
No offense intended, but every time you refer to “Puppidum” I think of crispy Indian flatbread. I think “Puppydom” might be a more felicitous spelling.
So long and thanks for all the filth.
Well, someone had to say it.
@Peace
Larry Correia born 1977
Brad Torgerson born 1974
Kate Paulk born sometime after 1975 (she is in her 30s I believe)
Sarah Hoyt born 1962
The New Wave was over before they were reading adult SF let alone writing it, and for some over before they were born.
Another mostly-lurker chiming in to say thanks for the roundups, Mike.
non-Human Wave SF?
look at the list of Hugo novel winners and nominees, starting in the 1960, and you’ll find something in most every year that wouldn’t qualify
Mike, thank you for the round-ups. I feel like I was better informed about the whole situation because of them.
Before this year, I used the Hugo nomination list as reading lists, and found wonderful authors that way. The slates pissed me off, which is not easy to do! Now I’m a voter, and plan to stay a voter and stay on top (as much as I can) of what is current in F&SF. I may not ever get to a Worldcon, but the community here has been wonderful to this occasional poster.
The one good thing about this situation is that it has brought readers like me into the Hugo voting fold, and will hopefully spread more discussion about books and stories!
I am also redelurking to thank Mike.
Thank you, Mike!
Thank you Mike for an epic way to dive back into fandom. I’ve been a SFF for a long time but haven’t been paying that much attention over the last couple of years. This site and the commentators have invaluable in both new authors and book recommendations and a map of the current trends and currents in fandom. My takeaway from this has been a wealth of new works that I have browsed past in the stores.
It has been funny to see this comments section became slowly characterized as Anti-Puppy Central in the increasingly paranoid Puppy camps. If anything, there’s been more attempts to be fair (without tolerating any bs) to people who were willing to be honest agents in engaging. It’s a shame that they’ve circled their ideological wagons. I’m honestly curious to the reaction in what I’m predicting is a pretty thorough rejection of the slate from voters.
Finally, for me, the biggest impact the SP/RP slates have had is proving a list of authors for whom I had virtually no knowledge of or opinion about prior, and giving me ample reason to never use my dollars to support their work. Admittedly, Baen books in general usually don’t ‘grab’ me when walking past because the art direction for their covers is so appalling with their neon titles in retro fonts. But now, names like Hoyt and Correia are associated with a subgroup of people who enjoy pretty awful rhetoric and noxious opinions on-line. Nah, I’ll get the next Marie Brennan instead.
That doesn’t mean that they don’t identify with pre-New Wave writers, or nostalgic for their idealized version of Honest to Campbell Science.
That’s one of the most unforgiveable things the Puppies have done.
The fans in the WSFS have worked their backsides off for seven decades to carefully select for the best in SFF, slowly and painfully and painstakingly garnering respect for the field through a constant devotion to excellence, until the Hugos have come to really mean something.
The Puppies are jeopardizing the reputation of the Hugos.
Inevitably, when something low, cheeseball, or embarrassing tries to fake up respectability by pasting over with something genuinely good it never elevates the bad thing but only befouls the good.
@Chris
Indeed, its never a given that someone entering SF reading and fandom reads in the era they were born. Thanks to the influence of my older brother, I started reading SF that was by and large far more classic than the era I was born in (the 70’s, if you must know). I had, for example, had to wait for years to discover the awesomeness of Tiptree and LeGuin.
“The Last Roundup” makes it sound like I should be playing sad harmonica by the campfire.
I hope we’ll still have a community here, I’d miss it!
Fandom is full of people far too young to have been there who still have strong opinions about that first WorldCon exclusion controversy, or the Breendoggle.
Fighting old wars is not an unusual thing.
Camestros:
I’m putting together a “guide to voting for the Hugos” intended for transformative works fans, and I’m going to borrow your “comparison works” method — and your links!
Fighting old wars is not an unusual thing.
It’s a fairly popular hobby with a long tradition and links to SFF*. Are we not talking about war games?
* H.G. Wells wrote a set of miniatures rules called Little Wars and the full title suggests it’s also for the more intelligent girls who like boys’ games and books.
Nah, I’ll get the next Marie Brennan instead.
Diana Rowland’s White Trash Zombie books are a lot of fun. How odd to see a UF/PR character whose goals are things like ‘get a GED’, ‘maybe get an apartment’, ‘hold onto the first decent job she’s ever had’.
Antonelli is a black belt in Both Sides.
(ref: Puppy Bingo)
Hey, Mike. Thanks for wading in the sewer day after day to fish out the significant (and often malodorous) orts for us (I was going to say “nutty nuggets,” but, yuck). Can’t blame you if that’s getting too repetitive to continue.
I wrote a semi-detailed, semi-snarky summary of the whole affair (based on describing it to a friend who is not following it all) and I did conclude we were in a trough of personal grievances now. Maybe if people post their own “what have we learned/what was it all about” entries I’ll join in (it’s kinda long).
Of course, the ending has yet to be written.
I would add my voice to the request for a weekly or biweekly Hugo roundup, including not only the usual blathering from the usual malcontents up to and through the actual vote, but also to keep the recommendations for next year on the mid-burner.
Thanks again!
Mike,
So long and thanks for all the roundups.
FWIW, I’ll add File 770 to my RSS feed and keep a weather eye on it – especially as it pertains to books.
I’m glad to find another community on the internet where I feel like I belong.
Thanks.
Unlikely as the majority of readers haven’t heard of it, and many of those who have don’t hang onto every post for it. If you went up to your average Sci-Fi fan and said ‘You wouldn’t believe what Lou Antonelli has said about Sci-Fi/what someone said about Lou Antonelli.’ you’d get one of those dog tilting his head in confusion looks and them asking who you’re talking about. Those who do are people who care about the genre. I think it’s safe to say the genre is going to be a-ok despite the recent canine conundrum.
And if the genre was so fragile that the acts of self promoting vandalism by a couple assholes was all it took to take it out then it was a lame horse headed for pasture already.
In about 10-20 years (or less) we’ll see this rodeo again with people concerned that they flavor of Sci-Fi/Fantasy they like isn’t what is popular at the moment and they don’t get why. I hope I will not be one of those guys who can’t enjoy changing trends and styles, but then again every time I see a Steampunk thing I want to throw something at it.
It’s got everything: Heinlein, high-powered math, and thus by definition rockets, rip-roaring adventure, and a conspicuous absence of Message and Librulz.
Was that The Rolling Stones? If so, there’s the rather grim implied message about women in the workplace: Hazel ran into a glass ceiling, Roger does his best to keep his doctor wife from working and poor Meade only gets half the school time of her brothers because she’s seventeen and ‘husband high’.
The–well, an annoying thing about Heinlein is that having bought into the nonsense about SF being about science and verisimilitude, I did my best to get some familiarity with the relevant fields, only to discover Heinlein was wildly deluded about fields like relativity and impact physics.
I’ll add my thanks to Mike, and to everyone here who was friendly to the newbie. 🙂 Thanks to you all, I have a list of books, and martial arts movies, and anime, and short stories and blogs and authors and and and…that I have no hope of ever getting through.
I’m going to keep lurking, though, even without the roundups. There’s too much other interesting stuff here.
Ha. But no.
(I do play wargames myself, have since the Carter administration. I’m aware of that book although I’ve never read it.)
Wait did I miss the martial arts movie recommendations? Damnitall.
Guess you’ll just have to go back and read ALL THE COMMENT THREADS.
Starting with the 7/2 roundup, about here.
andyl on July 6, 2015 at 6:45 am said:
Maybe they’re confusing the SF “new wave” with the 80s musical/cultural “new wave”? They be the right age to have been bullied by new romantics and their silly hairdos while in highschool, especially if Hoyt was held back ten or so years.
There’s nothing unusual about American right-wingers obsessing about wars fought long before they were born. If the pulp army had marched under a flag, the puppies would be painting it on their cars and lying about what it represents.
*drops to one knee* Oh right ring, need a… *produces a copy of Ringworld.* No? Oh well was worth a try.
For UK voters: the first in the series by Wesley Chu ‘The Lives of Tao’ kindle edition is £1.29, which is pretty cheap. I think it’s a good idea, if possible, to start with the first before moving on the volume included in the Hugo packet.
And it ain’t over till the fat lady sings, though sopranos do seem to have become slimmer in recent years…
On HG Well’s Little Wars:
It’s not much like most modern war games as it requires the use of small gunpowder fueled cannons, and “hits” are scored on the enemy’s units when you physically hit them with small peices of shot using the toy cannons – not the sort of thing most people would be happy giving kids to fuck around with these days alas, in large part because they underestimate the power of protective goggles.
But a lot more fun and “suitable” for children to play than say Krieg!, which was its closest contemporary.
(4chan’s /tg/ board will throw that at people who ask politely for it in one of the semi-regular PDF sharing threads they have if anyone wants a pdf copy of it)
This is interesting to me, because things like the Nutty Nuggets Manifesto had gotten me wondering if there was a cultural connection between the Sads and the older fans I sometimes hear lamenting the death of “sensawunda” and the current dominance of fantasy and “soft” SF. But the actual Sad ringleaders are about thirty years too young for that.
I could see an older fan who didn’t like the direction of the field latching onto a provided narrative about why that was happening — something with defined villains, and a proposed remedy.
In the absence of any other context, I would have assumed “human wave” was an effort to apply humanism to SF.
That’s why I think judicious use of No Award is so important. It helps protect the prestige of the award itself, if not the nominees.
And another thanks to our host, Mike Glyer. The slating just made me angry and depressed, but the roundups and the discussions here have given me reason to laugh, and revisit favorite stories of the past, just to remind myself why I care.
Thank you very much for the round ups!
Liz Bonesteel –
Nice! Looks like it went on for pages. As an avid watcher of that genre I’ve got a bunch of my own as well. If you haven’t seen The Raid or The Raid 2 I highly recommend those movies. I have a huge list myself if you want a deeper pile.
@Stevie
Some of us got The Lives Of Tao last year in the voters’ packet
No, they’re too young for that, too. I was born in 1966 and the musical new wave was part of my high school experience.
But they’re young enough to have grown up hearing the term and not to know that SF new wave and pop culture new wave aren’t the same thing.
I can’t say it any better than Hampus said:
Thank you Mike.
@Lis Carey
I believe you will enjoy the Lego Movie. I didn’t remember it being quite such a joyous romp, but it really is.
@Stevie
That’s gone onto the wish list.
I didn’t even have a wishlist before this kerfuffle started.
Lives of Tao is no.60 on wish list.
@ James Davis Nicoll: Diana Rowland’s White Trash Zombie books
Seconding the lot of fun–and doing fascinating things to tropes! I’ve taught the first one, and I introduced it to my class as “her life improves after she’s turned into a zombie.” Rowland deals with class issues much more than a lot of sff. I adore them.
Every time I see something written by Antonelli, I am more convinced that I was too kind in my characterization of him.
Re: “new wave”
Correia and Hoyt are widely read. Brad has read nothing. But the appeal of pulp—think Star Wars and role-playing games. It’s easy enough to be a fine of science fictional things that have a pulp feel and a pulp lineage without going back and reading actual pulp fiction. Other people have done it for you, and you just consume their nth-generation alternative-form creations.
Mike– Thanks for everything and eager to see where File 770 goes next. Tomorrow, even!
But I was a great deal more impressed by Edmund Hamilton’s ‘A Conquest of Two Worlds’, published in 1932, than anything on the canine concoction presently before us; no doubt it’s because, like Edmund Hamilton, I’m just not into genocide…
@James Davis Nicoll
I read your review and it looks interesting. I’m pretty ‘meh’ on zombie fiction in general, but I do like the concept. I’ll see if they’ve got it after I finish ‘Ancillary Sword’.
I’m another mostly-lurker chiming in to say thanks for all the great roundups and comments here. I can’t read original posts by most of the Puppies because they make me shout angrily, and that scares my dogs. So getting a taste of what’s going on in that part of the world has been useful.
More useful were the comments here, and especially the book/movie talk. I’m not a con-goer, but I do follow what’s going on in the field.* But I’ve picked up several things recently that have flown under my radar because of recommendations here.**
I look forward to seeing what comes next! Y’all keep up the recommendations and book talk (where appropriate.)
*Podcasts and RSS feeds are my friends.
**Uhura’s Song, by Janet Kagan; Ravenwood, by Nathan Lowell etc.
Thank you for the round-ups. I was so surprised when I came here for the first time and I was in there via Wright’s blog! (I sent him an email that protested his Puppy antics and he published me to the Web without permission, go figure).
Again, thanks and I look forward to what’s ahead.
I haven’t participated much, but I’ve been a regular reader of the Roundup. Thank you Mike, will continue to look in on File770…