The All-Purpose Hugo Post

Do you want to liveblog along? Comment on the proceedings? This is the place for it. Jump right in. Play along from home.

Just this moment I am sitting in the back of the hall where the pre- and post-Hugo show will be broadcast. But I soon will migrate to the auditorium. They fixed me up with a seat in press row, which was very kind.

1,039 thoughts on “The All-Purpose Hugo Post

  1. Oh wow, I didn’t expect that. So will they be used concurrently?

    It looks as if they might be: but I think some have voted for both so that either is available for final ratification next year, when we have a clearer idea of how things are working out, and more studies have been done on their effects.

    Do we yet have the figures on how EPH would have affected this year’s results? (Unfortunately we can’t have figures on how 4/6 would affect this year’s results, since it necessarily changes voter behaviour. EPH might change voter behaviour, but doesn’t have to.)

  2. Kendall

    Yes: I looked earlier to see whether the Hugo administrators provide any breakdown between attending/supporting but I can find nothing. I can certainly understand why breaking the numbers down might be divisive; Puppidum has already accused the administrators of fraudulently abusing the votes, so why give them yet another nail to hang their hats on?

  3. Do we yet have the figures on how EPH would have affected this year’s results?

    I don’t think they have the necessary data yet.

  4. @May Tree: IMHO it’s impossible to tell how 4/6 might have affected any past Hugos, since it changes the # of nominations & the # on the final ballot. Unlike EPH, which (with the data) one can see what happened. To me, it’s another strike against 4/6.

    I read something about how EPH works better with more nominating slots, so the “4” in “4/6” slightly hurts it – but not a lot. I’m not sure if I understood that right, though.

    Also, that gif was just creepy. 😉 Thanks.

  5. Kendall, the idea with 4/6 is that no voter can fill an entire category’s nomination spots.

  6. That “Cat and Puppies” gif was posted to Reddit with the caption, “This is it. This is how I die.” I can’t guarantee there wasn’t any interspecies violence afterward because I can’t find the original video. But here’s another similar circumstance that resulted only in dirty looks and loud complaints, no violence:

  7. @P J Evans: I understand the concept of 4/6; I’m not sure why you think I don’t. . . . Anyway, its flaws have been pointed out many times already (for example: two slates can easily dominate it).

    ETA: I don’t see “4 slate nominees and 2 non-slate” as being much of an improvement over “4 and 1” (what we had in some categories this year) or “5 and none” (what we had in several other categories this year). Not enough to feel it’s worth adopting, when EPH is a much better solution.

    At least it’s not 6/4 😉

  8. For the curious, the song’s name is “The Day the Puppies Cried,” and there is a chance that lyrics may be forthcoming. 🙂

    That inspired a five-minute filkette…

    Bye, bye, the Americans sigh.
    Our culture war exploded, sent the Hugos awry.
    The good old fen were drinking whiskey and rye
    Singing, “This’ll be the year we decry.”
    “This’ll be the year we decry.”

    (It’s rough, but what do you want for five minutes….)

  9. Grace of Kings rubbed me the wrong way from the start and kept getting worse. I’ve admired Liu’s work in the past, and I know Grace has gotten a lot of positive buzz and it sounds like some readers really connected to it. But for myself, by the halfpoint I was reading on the grounds of “dammit this is going to be up for the Hugos next year and I’m damned if I won’t have a detailed explanation ready of why I don’t like it!”.

    So, ummm, I now have a detailed explanation ready of why I don’t like it.

  10. So if we’re back on recommendations (we’re always back on recommendations), I’ve got a meta-request.

    Is there anywhere you get pointers towards good short fiction from?

    I subscribe to my favorite magazines, and I have a few bloggers who touch on short fiction occasionally. And there are often great lists right up at award seasons. But is there anywhere good to follow for year-round short-fiction recommendations? The field’s so big, and I want to read more of it 🙂

  11. Is there anywhere you get pointers towards good short fiction from?

    The three non-Puppy semiprozines from the Hugo ballot are a good sources for short fiction. As is Clarkesworld.

  12. Ok, my celebratory book purchases were:

    Terms of Enlistment by Marko Kloos
    Because he’s a stand up guy and karma is better than dogma.

    The Inheritance Trilogy by NK Jemisin.
    Because I’ve heard many good things about her, oh..and up yours VD.

  13. Now I have two years to learn how to say, “Can you recommend a good local wine” in Finnish (one of the few phrases I remember from a trip to Italy in my 20s). ? Along with please, thank you, “where’s the restroom,” and “do you have any batteries” (which I had to learn in Switzerland when I needed batteries ? ).

    From what I know, Finnish is… challenging to learn. Every Finn will tell you that they all speak English anyway.

    I have a fondness for Helsinki since I saw this:

    The Complaints Choir of Helsinki

  14. Ed said:

    “The Inheritance Trilogy by NK Jemisin.
    Because I’ve heard many good things about her, oh..and up yours VD.”

    First book is amazing–intense and emotional, almost to the point where I’d have to put it down ever few pages just because I needed to breathe. It reminds me a lot of Kate Orman’s first novel, ‘The Left-Handed Hummingbird’, in that sense. I’ve got the next two and ‘The Fifth Season’ and I’m dithering over which to read first (since they’re from different universes and I’m having a hard time avoiding ‘5S’ spoilers).

  15. @Ed: Ohhhhhh you are really tempting me to buy a couple of books, which I really shouldn’t right now because I have so much to read.

    @Anna: Hahaha, thanks, that was very amusing; I love how it’s such somber music.

  16. Seconding the rec on Hundred Thousand Kingdoms. Great worldbuilding, great political suspense story. Hint of Tanith Lee in there, I’d say.

  17. @ John
    The trilogy bundle is actually cheaper than the first standalone in the series.
    All three books for £4.99

  18. I’m halfway through Anno Dracula, and if there is one aspect of immortality that really appeals to me, it’s having enough time to read all the books I’ve bought.

  19. Can someone explain the whole EPH vs. 4/6 thing for me? Are they contradictory? Supplementary? If they contradict, how is it going to be decided which one is going to win? If they supplement each other, can someone explain to me the synergy there?

  20. @Kendall : Thank you! 🙂

    @Aaron: Thank you too! But, I’m actually looking less for additional magazines (my reading list is already so… so… long…), and more for reviews/recommendations/pointers across the field. Bonus points are for variety of content, and for in-depth-ness of reviews.
    (Abigail Nussbaum’s Hugo short fiction recommendations are my favorite piece of the internet every year. I guess I’m basically looking for more of that. 😛 )

  21. Today’s book purchases were only coincidental, since I went to the Book Festival today, but I ended up with four books I’d been planning on getting (The Gracekeepers by Kirsty Logan, Us Conductors by Sean Michaels, The First Bad Man by Miranda July, Go Set A Watchman by Harper Lee), four books by authors I’d read before and liked (Gone Are The Leaves by Anne Donovan, The Need For Better Regulation Of Outer Space by Pippa Goldschmidt, The Accidental by Ali Smith, and Last Night In Montreal by Emily St. John Mandel), one book I remembered seeing a good review of somewhere (The Chimes by Anna Small), and one book I know nothing about which sounded like my kind of thing (Unspeakable by Abbie Rushton).

    All of them will, however, be waiting at least until I finish the Tredana Trilogy by Joyce Ballou Gregorian because I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR LITERALLY MORE THAN THREE DECADES TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS TO SYBIL.

  22. Ed

    You are right; £4.99 for the trilogy is a major bargain, so I bought it.

    Has anyone heard from Mike? He was around earlier on but it’s worrying when our Great Leader drops out of sight.

    It’s very hard to be an excellent nest of scum and villainy without File770’s answer to Captain Jack Sparrow presiding over us all…

  23. Anna Feruglio Dal Dan on August 23, 2015 at 1:20 pm said:

    Now I have two years to learn how to say, “Can you recommend a good local wine” in Finnish (one of the few phrases I remember from a trip to Italy in my 20s). ? Along with please, thank you, “where’s the restroom,” and “do you have any batteries” (which I had to learn in Switzerland when I needed batteries ? ).

    From what I know, Finnish is… challenging to learn. Every Finn will tell you that they all speak English anyway.

    I have a fondness for Helsinki since I saw this:

    The Complaints Choir of Helsinki

    Well, now I know to say “it’s not fair” in Finnish! Great video.

  24. @John Seavey

    It reminds me a lot of Kate Orman’s first novel, ‘The Left-Handed Hummingbird’, in that sense.

    Ooh, now you’ve got my attention.

  25. Oh, and now it starts to happen. From T.L. Knighton:

    “At least one publisher contacted Brad apparently and asked that he NEVER put any of their editors on a public list of his again.”

    Oh, and btw. He cares again. Flip-flop.

  26. I’ll third the recommendation for Hundred Thousand Kingdoms – it blew me away in the first couple of pages, and never stopped doing so.

  27. And it continues with Dr. Mauser:

    “Looking at the sheer number of SJW arsonists who swept in at the last minute to burn down everything they couldn’t take with them, and compared to the nominee numbers, I’m not sure anyone can pull it off next year. I don’t think we can grow that fast. There are a LOT more barbarians inside the walls of fandom than we were counting on.”

    And:

    “GG wasn’t really brought in, but maybe it should be courted this time.”

  28. Hampus

    You are a bad, bad man; against my better judgement I went and read it. They really haven’t a clue about what playing hardball is actually like, do they?

    In some ways it’s rather sad; drop them into the City and they’d be penniless, and homeless, in a week.

    Fortunately the US embassy would repatriate them, but, looking on the bright side, it would be an excellent learning experience for them…

    And Dr Mauser would do better if he knew what the word barbarian means..

  29. @Standback: I just noticed Black Gate reviews short fiction; they review a lot of old stuff, but on the 18th, they reviewed some fiction from July. So, there’s that. Also, how could I forget: Locus reviews some short fiction (magazines & anthologies, mostly, I think???), but most or all of it’s in the magazine, requiring a subscription.

    @Hampus Eckerman: Wow, in that comment thread Hoyt claims to know seven languages. Elitist Marxist! 😉

    @Various: I got the first Hundred Thousand Kingdoms book in a previous Hugo packet; clearly, I should read it (groan, so many books), as I never got to it that year.

  30. Please don’t bark about us when you’re gone
    Sad puppies, we hope your slating ceases from now on.
    And listen, if you think straightforward tales are nice
    Why’d you nominate that JC Wright guy twice?

    We’re parting: Hugo your way, it was just
    The besties of Brad
    What’s the point when you annoint to further your jihad
    Oh don’t just blame the SMOFs and carry on
    Remember, please don’t bark about us when you’re gone

    [swingin’ instrumental]

    Please don’t bark about us when you’re gone
    Stop fighting culture wars and just move on
    And dig this, if you want to show us what we’ve missed
    Just poll your fans and make a reading list

    Hugo your way, not this time
    The best thing to do
    Is write your best, not be obsessed with what we owe to you
    It made no difference how you carried on
    Remember, please don’t bark about us —
    You likely will, but maybe —
    Please don’t bark about us when you’re gone

  31. Oh dear, I really am a failure. Bloodstone 75 provides amazing artistic input whilst I’m cheerily envisaging the bodies, or at least the penny less stature, of my enemies, brought low by their inability to comprehend what hardball is really like.

    My only rationale is that I’ve lived in the City since 1982, and it’s really very hard to remember that hardball is not a global phenomenen…

  32. Hey Bloodstone75, include links to your filk inspirations. There’s a lot of versions of this one and your filk shines best when paired up with Dino’s version:

    [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL1KbQU30-4[/embed]

  33. Well, I hope the people at MidamericaCon are taking note of this. Over at Hoyt’s place, the commenters are already planning the size of next year’s slates.

    One more year, people. Then EPH passes for good, and you’re shit out of luck.

  34. The consensus from pro-puppy partisans on Twitter this morning was “The puppies just wanted to show that the Hugo awards are politically motivated. It worked.”

    Given that this makes zero sense and ignores all known facts, I imagine this will become the dominant puppy talking point.

  35. [tune: The Cockroach that Ate Cincinnati]

    I have a sad story to tell you
    About rockets awarded to pros.
    Some who were not winners
    Aped Fox News-type spinners
    And screamed, They’ve oppressed us! Oh noes!”

    Now, some were just sad; others, rabid—
    Or a social-disease-spreading vector—
    With the efforts they’ve waste-
    -ed, They’ve shown their true face-
    -es: They’re Hugo Award non-collectors!

  36. Next year is going to be very strange indeed. There will be an overwhelming number of non-slate nominators…who can’t coordinate to ensure that no slate wins.

    I was thinking last night this is like the Duel of the Invisible Hands.

  37. Stevie: My Kindle ran out of juice after the first hour of the business meeting. For some reason it didn’t take a charge when I had it hooked up overnight, only when I reset the plug this morning so the battery didn’t have much time on the outlet before it was time to go.

    Then I was on a 2 pm panel about fan writing with Cat Valente, Meg Frank and Janet Freeman-Daily.

    I’m tired so I am resting in my room. Supposed to have dinner with Larry Niven, hope that works out.

  38. Source: Please Don’t Talk About Me When I’m Gone by Frank Sinatra

    Ah hah, not Dino! (I was sure it wasn’t the Billie Holiday version….or the one on ukelele I stumbled on.) Thank you!

    Also: Nice one Cubist!

  39. At this point, it looks like the Puppies’ best strategy for next year, assuming they try slating again, is to nominate the very best, most outstanding works they can possibly find, works that actually challenge people and impress with their high quality.

    Then there would be genuine conflict and heartsickness in having to choose between ethical avoidance of slates and rewarding genuinely outstanding work (assuming conflict and heartsickness is the Puppies’ goal — it has been so far, but one never knows).

    This has the further advantage that the Puppies can honestly say with a straight face that they are trying to reward excellence. It would be a pleasant change for everyone.

  40. @Will R.
    Next year is going to be very strange indeed. There will be an overwhelming number of non-slate nominators…who can’t coordinate to ensure that no slate wins.

    So suppose next year a record number, thousands of ’em, cast their nominating ballots…and find their choice was usurped by a small number of bloc voters.

    Imagine all the good will the Pups will have generated for themselves.

  41. Peace Is My Middle Name on August 23, 2015 at 5:46 pm said:

    At this point, it looks like the Puppies’ best strategy for next year, assuming they try slating again, is to nominate the very best, most outstanding works they can possibly find, works that actually challenge people and impress with their high quality.

    A nice thought… but you seem to be assuming that the Pups are capable of recognizing actual merit. Horrifying thought: What if the Pups genuinely do regard Wisdom from My Internet as Hugo-worthy material?

  42. @Peace Is My Middle Name
    At this point, it looks like the Puppies’ best strategy for next year, assuming they try slating again, is to nominate the very best, most outstanding works they can possibly find, works that actually challenge people and impress with their high quality.

    I’m sure they’re sticking to their story that it’s what they did this year, so good luck with that.

  43. Over on Torgersen’s blog, he is changing commenter’s words if he disagrees with them – and admitting to doing so.

    What a shockingly dishonorable thing to do; confirmation, if any were still needed at this point, that Torgersen lacks any sense of honor at all.

    Wow. I find that I’m surprised that they can still shock me.

  44. Cubist on August 23, 2015 at 5:49 pm said:

    Peace Is My Middle Name on August 23, 2015 at 5:46 pm said:

    At this point, it looks like the Puppies’ best strategy for next year, assuming they try slating again, is to nominate the very best, most outstanding works they can possibly find, works that actually challenge people and impress with their high quality.

    A nice thought… but you seem to be assuming that the Pups are capable of recognizing actual merit. Horrifying thought: What if the Pups genuinely do regard Wisdom from My Internet as Hugo-worthy material?

    I do not assume, but I do hope.

    It is my fervent hope that the Puppy nominations this year were the result of cynicism, opportunism, and greed for awards. It is my hope that the Puppies do actually know better and are capable of recognizing outstanding work.

    If they do not, I hope they can learn to appreciate good, well-written work. Surely there is much of it that is to their tastes.

  45. I see this thread is getting close to 1000!

    I have to admit, I’m not a short fiction fan (I occasionally get stuff by authors I know I love, but I generally find most short fiction to be meh–I like the longer stuff).

    That just means I probably won’t be nominating much in that category (I do have a novella nomination–Bujold’s Penric’s Demon!

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