The Castalia of Fu Manchihuahua 6/11

aka At The Mountains Of Muttness

Galloping through today’s roundup are Adam Troy-Castero, Steven Saus, Jim C. Hines, Moshe Feder, Vox Day, Larry Correia, Greg Machlin, J. C. Carlton, Tom Knighton, K. Tempest Bradford, Brenna Clarke Gray, Saumya Arya Haas, Simon Bucher-Jones, Lela E. Buis, Sean Struck, Heather Allen and Tqwana Brown, Lou Antonelli, Eric Flint, Lis Carey, Ferrett Steinmetz, Martin Wisse, Peter Grant, Laura “Tegan” Gjovaag, James Schardt, Patrick May, Charlotte Ashley, and Kate Paulk. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Anthony and SocialInjusticeWorrier.)

Adam-Troy Castro

“The Art Of The Apology Is Broken Beyond Repair” – June 11

[Numbers 5 and 6 of 11.]

The I-Can-Demand-An-Apology-But-Will-Never-Give-One-And-Never-Accept-One Dynamic: This is a related phenomenon to the previous, in which the offended party cannot and will not accept any responsibility for a mutual dispute, saying, “I would be more than happy to apologize if I was wrong,” which somehow never ever happens. In such relationships, the offended party can last years without ever being once in error. Imagine that. The current controversy in the SF community is led by an individual who has actually come out and told his followers, in as many words, that they should never apologize at any point no matter how excessive their behavior might have been, because that’s surrender. He has also simultaneously demanded apology for one offense or another an almost daily basis. Here, apology is used primarily as a tool to back the other party further and further away from his previous position, gaining ground but never at any point acknowledging any point on which ground might be given. Apology is here a strategy, and it’s all about getting the other guy to issue one. One manifestation of this is insisting that everybody on the other side apologize for and disavow every regrettable thing ever said by any ally, no matter how tangential, while simultaneously saying, “I’m not responsible for everything everybody on my side does!” Apology is here a military strategy, not an attempt at understanding.

The I-Can-Demand-An-Apology-While-Indulging-In-Equivalent-Behavior-Apology: Otherwise known as the Torgersen, this is best summarized as “X needs to apologize for tarring everybody on my side with the same brush, which is the way those SJWs and CHORFS always behave.” This manifests without any self-awareness or sense of irony. Again, this is about gaining ground, not achieving understanding.

 

Steven Saus on ideatrash

“On His Flaming Phallus Substitute (or ‘Why Does It Burn When Vox Posts?’) and The Whole Tor Thing” – June 11

Vox (or Theodore Beale) revealed that he had held on to the screencap in question for weeks for maximum effect.  To quote what he told File770 (source):

I’ve held onto this since I had the screencap, which as you correctly note was made several weeks ago. As for the “sinister plotting”, I have long been in the habit of never using all of my ammunition at once, or pointing-and-shrieking for its own sake. I am a patient man and I didn’t strike back at TNH, PNH, or even John Scalzi right away either.

So here’s the thing. I think Beale got a case of the supervillain soliloquy when he made that comment on File770 – because it tips his hand.  It clearly shows that this isn’t real outrage.  He’s not really upset about what was said. Vox’s actions are a deliberate, orchestrated, premeditated attack on a person and group that he has a beef with.  This isn’t about beliefs or values.  It isn’t about anything in fiction. This looks like nothing more than sociopathic pique, spite, and bile.

 

Jim C. Hines

“The Tor Mess” – June 10

Today: The apology thread at Tor.com has almost 500 comments. People on all sides are expressing anger at Tor and Tom Doherty, and some folks are still talking about a boycott…

…which would seem to be exactly what Beale wanted when he posted that screenshot and released the rabid hounds.

I mean, come on. You don’t think the man who routinely calls John Scalzi a rapist gives a damn about “libel,” do you? Gallo’s comment was a weapon he could use to try to damage Tor Books. And right now, in the heat of anger and argument, it looks like he succeeded.

Realistically though, I can’t imagine this boycott will be any more successful than his last effort. And most of the internet will probably have moved on by the end of the week.

 

Moshe Feder on Facebook  – June 10

As far as I can tell, Irene didn’t start her personal blog page intending to malign any Puppies, either Sad or Rabid. Rather, she responded in a spontaneous, unpremeditated way to a request for an explanation about the Hugo controversy, in the process accurately describing Theodore Beale as a neo-Nazi. Since her answer to the query was so brief, the Sad Puppies were mentioned in close proximity to that description, which understandably left them very uncomfortable. (Eric Flint‘s analysis concluding that this was all a deliberate subtle ploy on Irene’s part to use guilt by association against them gives her too much credit. Like many visual artists, she is a spontaneous writer and not a calculating one.)

Irene has never been known for her diplomacy — I say that as someone who’s knocked heads with her more than once on work-related matters — but I think the reaction to her off-the-cuff statement is more extreme and over-the-top than the statement itself. After all, in the end, it was just one person’s opinion, readily ignorable by those who differ with it. (In fact, it actually _was_ ignored for weeks, until someone decided to weaponize it.) It’s _trivial_ compared to Brad and Larry’s premeditated, organized effort to violate a social compact of 60 years standing. If you want to express outrage, that’s where it should properly be applied.

 

Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Moshe Feder doubles down… twice” – June 11

The Associate Editor of Tor Books doubled-down on Facebook:

I’ll be happy to say right now, here on my _personal_ FB page, speaking for myself and not Tor, that I agree with Irene that Vox Day can be fairly described as a neo-Nazi. – Moshe Feder, Associate Editor, Tor Books

It’s a very strange to accuse a self-declared Zionist who edits and publishes Israeli authors of being a neo-Nazi, but then, these are the same people who insist that Brad Torgersen is racist despite his marriage to a black woman…..

In light of these additional provocations by a Tor Books employee, I sent an email to Tom Doherty, Publisher at Tor Books, requesting that he deal directly with the public misbehavior of his Associate Publisher and his Associate Editor. I trust that he will address the situation in a professional and decisive manner. It should be obvious, at this point, that I am far from the only individual being attacked by his employees and that the unpleasantries are not going to end until those employees are held fully accountable for their ludicrously unprofessional actions.

 

Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Yes, but…” – June 11

A File 770 SJW frets that we won’t be satisfied with Gallo’s resignation: ….

Well, that all depends on how many SJWs Mr. Doherty and/or Macmillan have the good sense to stop inflicting on science fiction. But (and this is the relevant point), thousands of current customers attacked by Ms Gallo won’t stop buying their books. If Gallo was a fry cook or a sales clerk, she’d be gone already. You don’t show that kind of disrespect and hatred for your customers and keep your job. You simply don’t. I am under no illusion that anyone at Tor or Macmillan like me or wish to do me any favors. But I do assume that they are capable of doing basic math and grasping the lesson of Fox News. Of course, if they instead decide that they want to play the role of CNN and sell only to the left one-third of the population, well, that is certainly their prerogative.

 

Larry Correia on Monster Hunter Nation

“The latest Sad Puppies related stuff” – June 11

You might have noticed that I’ve not posted much about this topic lately. My original points, that there is political bias in the system, which would result in slander and sabotage, has been pretty well proven. I don’t have much else to add.

Recently a Tor editor said something false and asinine. This is kind of a tradition, but for a bunch of fans this was the final straw. People got really mad (it turns out regular fans don’t like being called neo-nazis) and this time the comments came to the attention of Tor management.

I’ve personally stayed out of this one. I’m used to being lied about by these people. However, it turns out regular fans aren’t. Go figure.

As far as I’m concerned, this is between Tor and its customers. A bunch of folks have come out to condemn Tom Doherty as a misogynist for trying to protect his company, and more #standwithGallo to double down on her comments about how everybody who disagrees with them politically is a racist, sexist, homophobe. That’s awesome. You guys do far more to prove my original contention than anything I could have ever done on my own.

 

J. C. Carlton

“Is It Smart To Piss Off Your Customers And Vendors?” – June 10

Most of the puppies had been giving Tor a break.  It was assumed that the extreme language that we had been seeing was the production of a very small group of individuals, not the entire Tor office.  The call was “not to punish Tor” for the actions of those few.  Ms. Gallo’s comment, and her actions represent  behavior far outside the normal course of business.  For that matter, so do those of the Neilson Haydon’s  and others at Tor.  The obvious intent was, from even before the nominations were announced to essentially destroy any credibility the puppies might have using the usual methods of the typical leftist power elite. Which is to cast anybody who has even a small argument against whatever the leftist agenda as “unrepentantly racist, misogynist, and homophobic.”

Well we have Mr. Doherty’s answer.

http://www.tor.com/2015/06/08/a-message-from-tom-doherty-to-our-readers-and-authors/#comment-526375

Apparently, using words like, “unrepentantly racist, misogynist, and homophobic.” as blanket statements under promotional posts for Tor’s is Ok as long as it’s not on Tor’s website.  I think that the problem at Tor isn’t that Gallo made the statements as libelous and disgusting as they were, but the fact that Tor is the kind of place where statement like that are even thought of as something you would say as part of the regular part of business.  the statement was made in response to an honest and easily answered question.  instead of doing what any of we puppies would do and point the questioner to a bunch of websites or saying google it, Gallo resorted to the worst kind destructive and hateful language. Is this what it’s like in the Tor office?  Apparently so.

 

Tom Knighton

“Where the differences lie” – June 11

From our perspective, the sin wasn’t that she [Irene Gallo] hated us.  While her choice of words was upsetting to say the least, that wouldn’t have been enough to “rally the troops”, so to speak.  The issue was that it was while she was promoting a Tor book.  The perception, for right or wrong, was that she was operating in a professional capacity within that post.

No one thinks her personal Facebook page is an extension of her professional life as a general rule.  The difference was what the post was.

Had her post simply been Puppy-bashing like Feder, both Neilsen Haydens, John Scalzi, David Gerrold, or a number of other people, nothing really would have been said.

The truth is, had it been any of those people, the apology wouldn’t have been enough for even me to call for folks to let it go.  Some critics of the Doherty statement are absolutely correct.  Those folks have said far, far more than Gallo ever did.  They owe us far more in the way of an apology than Gallo ever did.  They’ve said as much, if not worse, and said it far more often.  The simple fact is that they haven’t said it on the same posts that they used to promote books by their employer.

For me, the difference simply lies in what they were doing.

Here’s something for folks to remember about me personally.  The situation with Gallo is a historical note in Sad Puppies 3.  It’s over and done with.  But Patrick Neilsen Hayden and Moshe Feder?  No, they’re ongoing and they are the reason I’m still considering whether I really want to buy any Tor books down the road.  I’d rather not contribute to the level of hate I’ve seen come from them.

 

K. Tempest Bradford on Facebook – June 9

With the current situation, you have the big boss publicly shaming one female employee and sending a message to others that only certain behaviors are tolerated, and have you crossed the line? Watch out! (The line being: saying true things about a Tor author. The line not being: sexually harassing Tor authors, contractors, and employees.)

How the fuck are the other Tor editors supposed to feel about this? (This is not a call for said editors to tell us publicly. There’s a whole lot of reasons why they probably don’t want to do that. I don’t blame them.)

Then there’s the whole thing where Doherty just let Jim Frenkel do his thing for years and years, through multiple complaints from authors who weren’t signed with Tor, authors who were signed with Tor, independent contractors working with Tor, and Tor employees. I don’t remember a public statement about that. I don’t remember a Tor.com post shaming Frenkel. What I do remember is that we found out he was no longer employed at Tor from PNH’s Twitter account. I also remember that he wasn’t fired, he was allowed to resign.

I don’t remember Doherty apologizing to anyone for that.

 

Brenna Clarke Gray on Book Riot

“Reflecting on the Tor Letter as a Lady-Geek” – June 11

I am going to state three givens vis-à-vis this post: if you disagree with them, that’s cool, but maybe you shouldn’t bother reading this post because it will just make you want to say angry things on the internet that I don’t care to read.

  1. I think it’s pretty clear that Vox Day intentionally sat on Gallo’s weeks-old comments until Nebula Awards weekend when, presumably, it would have the greatest impact to trot them out and rally up an angry mob.
  2. I agree in spirit if not in language with Gallo’s critique of SP/RP.
  3. I’m a feminist. This post is categorized as “Feminism.” If the concept of feminism enrages you, feel free to go about your business elsewhere.

So. The Tor letter was a major disappointment for me as a female SFF fan. I was at NorWesCon when the Hugo Award nominees were announced and, having spent most of my weekend in well-attended panels dominated by female pros and openly discussing issues from Gamergate to Women in Refrigerators, hearing the success of Sad Puppies was a punch to the gut. Sometimes female fandom can feel like a game of one step forward, two steps back: every single time we make major representative strides, someone decides that our mere presence at the table — our mere desire to be seen — is political correctness run amok and we must be silenced.

 

Saumya Arya Haas on The The

“Infoxicated Corner: ALL THESE THINGS ARE TRUE: Saumya Arya Haas” – June 11

It is true. As in many SF/F tales, a world is at risk. The world of “tradition,” the world where straight, cis, white guys are the inheritors of the throne, the world where women and minorities have their identities dictated and blunted by a dominant narrative: that world is gravely at risk. It is slow erosion, but it’s real. The Puppies, caught up in the echo chamber of their own fantasies, see themselves as valiant heroes who must save this dying world. They want to control the narrative of the real world by symbolically controlling the narratives of a literary tradition. The world is being remade: by people living their lives out loud, by books, by outrage. We won’t be stuffed back into narrow margins. It must be terrifying to own the whole damn world and then feel it begin to slip away. No wonder they’re sad, and rabid.

We are not outraged about who wins a genre literary award; we are fighting over the world. We are outraged when our meaning comes in conflict with someone else’s meaning and there is a fight to subsume our perspective. We’re outraged because, for many of us, this is not a story about stories. This is the story of our lives. My sympathy with the other side evaporates because there is, very clearly, room for them in the new world we are building. There is room for everyone to have their own place and share their own stories and preserve their own traditions (there is not, however, room for them to impose their narrative on anyone else). Their world, the old world they are struggling to preserve, would grind me down into a minor character written by someone else.

 

Simon Bucher-Jones on SBJ’s pantechnicon extravaganza

“A helpful graphic comparing Vox Day with Nazis” – June 11

The rabid puppies are lead by one Vox Day (Theodore Beale) who believes (or chooses to post as if he believes – and lets give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s not lying) a lot of very right wing things.  These have lead to the sad puppies and the rabid puppies being called “extreme right wing to neo-nazi respectively”, and the woman who said that – the art director for Tor books has been upbraided by people who don’t understand the ‘to’ and ‘respectively’ in that description, and seemingly have read nothing by Vox Day.

So to help clarify matters here’s a simple diagram with footnotes:….

 

Bestertester on SFF World

“Sad Puppies Draw Blood” – June 10

Trolls just want attention. So does everybody else, especially authors. To have influence when you’re not rich and connected, you have to get the public’s attention somehow. The most effective way to get the public’s attention is to make people angry. The angry hubbub draws a crowd, and you’ve got name recognition and a following. Outrage goes viral better than anything else. Persecution bestows relevance. The more you harsh on the heretic, the more you fuel his movement. But when the heretic harshes on the establishment, he undermines them. If it’s not a level playing field then the warfare is asymmetric. What works for the underdog works only if you’re the underdog. Vox Day is crazy like a fox,

 

Lela E. Buis

“Cracks in the façade” – June 11

I like Tor books. I don’t care much for traditional, white male SF. I tend to be a flaming liberal, but like the Puppies, I am personally affronted by SJWs (from either side) and publications that assume I don’t really understand the issues and translate the power plays. Plus, I don’t want my submissions to any editor to be evaluated on hidden social justice assumptions.

Over the Nebula Weekend, Vox Day attacked Irene Gallo, who is an editor at Tor, for comments she made on her personal Facebook page. I support Gallo’s right to express her opinions, but this was ill advised. It looks like Gallo fell for the Puppies’ baiting and made a provocative statement that could be construed to represent Tor. Founder Tom Doherty responded with a post distancing himself and Tor from Gallo’s comments and suggesting that he could be forced into asking her to resign. This provoked an immediate chortle from the Puppy supporters, who then fired the opening salvo of an attack on Moshe Feder, another editor at Tor. There were also calls for a boycott of Tor books.

 

Shawn Struck on The Code

“How Tor Books Threw Its Women Employees Under The Bus” – June 11

What’s odd is that Editor at Tor Books Patrick Neilsen Hayden called the Sad Puppies evil. Best aelling author John Scalzi– yes the same John Scalzi that signed a 10 year deal with Tor Books for 3.4 million— has publicly feuded with Vox Day (the white supremacist behind the Rabid Puppies slate) and called him a bigot. Neither of these high profile men had these actions or statements repudiated in public statements from Tom Doherty. In fact,Tom Doherty’s been quiet about a lot of things done by men at Tor.

 

Heather Allen and Tqwana Brown on Around The World In 80 Books

“Tor Books: Mismanagement of PR” – June 11

I always imagine SFF as pushing the envelope, but, in fact, the actions of Tom Doherty takes women a few years back. He represents Tor just as much as Irene does, he just put himself and Tor in the public sphere. I don’t see any positivity coming from this post. Did you really think we would all be on your side? That there would be no consequences to calling out a female employee for something that is affecting the industry she works in? There was a better way to handle this situation which did not include seceding to pressure from a group of Sad Puppies, and which did not include publicly shaming an employee.

 

Lou Antonelli on Facebook – June 11

By the way, I want to take a minute to thank the many people who have been supportive and encouraging to me in the wake of the controversy engendered by this year’s Hugo nominations.

I am proud of my work. No, I am not the greatest s-f writer on the planet. I am not in the Top Ten. Heck, I don’t know if I am in the Top 100. But there are many people who enjoy my work, and they’re the reason I write. I certainly don’t do it for the money. I write for the fans and the enjoyment it brings both them and myself.

 

 

Eric Flint

“NO, AWARDS AREN’T “FAIR.” NEVER HAVE BEEN, NEVER WILL BE. SO WHAT?” – June 11

So, to those of you reading this who are writers yourselves and may have a story eligible to be considered for a Hugo award, have at it. But approach it like an author.

Don’t get worked up because a lot of what happens with awards isn’t “fair.” No, it’s not. It wasn’t “fair” a generation ago—consult the ghosts of Hal Clement, Andre Norton, Richard Matheson and James H. Schmitz—it’s not “fair” now and it’s not going to be “fair” after you’re dead and have joined those ghosts. Accept that now or you will just sink into stupid and pointless resentment.

Yes, there are some steps that could be taken that would improve the situation. I’ll get into those in my next essay. But there is no way to get around the objective reality that only a tiny percentage of eligible authors will ever or can ever receive a Hugo award—or even be nominated for one—and the odds that you will be in that select group are tiny. You will certainly improve your odds if you can write really well, but that’s all you can do—improve them.

If you can’t accept that—accept it ungrudgingly; better yet, cheerfully—then you’re not thinking like an author. You’re thinking like a damn fool.

 

Ferrett Steinmetz

“How Much Of The Sad Puppy Divide Is Just An Approach To Novelty?” – June 11

And I think a lot of the Sad Puppy divide comes down to those who value comfort reading – they want mostly what they’ve read before, with a few twists to keep it fresh – and those of us who only get off on things we haven’t seen before.

There’s nothing wrong with either side, of course – I don’t disdain those who want to read their Laurel K. Hamilton and Harry Potter books a hundred times over, even as I don’t understand it.  Reading is reading. Love what you like.

But I think at some point, people like Brad and company have metastatized their tastes to go “Everyone really wants to hear the same basic stories, deep down” – and from that perspective, of course we’re only adding these weird-ass characters because we’re pandering.  Why would you want to write a gay character when what you’ve read before are straight characters, and the only thing that really scratches your itch is stuff similar to what you’ve read before?

 

Kyle on The Blogdom

“Ugh” – June 11

I love science fiction and fantasy novels. I love the movies. I love comics. The characters, the stories, they make my imagination soar. I also love reading new things. I like it when people write in these genres from perspectives I’ve never thought about.

But right now, a certain subset of the fandom just makes me sick. I feel like we’ve just realized that Hydra has been within our ranks all along. I mean, I always knew there was a certain type of nerd out there. We’ve all run into these dudes. They’re white, afraid of anything not white, and usually very antagonistic towards women. Probably they smell. These shits are out there. Now they’re constantly trying to ruin science fiction and fantasy. The Hugo awards, this controversy, and the entire Sad/Rabid Puppy movement (how absurd is my world at this point? I just typed Sad/Rabid Puppy movement), not to mention the GamerGate shitvalanche, just proves that people still suck. In case you’ve been asleep for a while and maybe thought it was getting better. Nah, they’re still awful.

 

Headmisstress on The Common Room

“Well, hoity toity” – June 11

In a frontal attack, employees at Tor have been going on record attacking  sci-fi authors who , one Tor editor went so far as calling some of Tor’s own authors ((and the readers who read their books) neo-nazis, reprehensible, racist, misogynist, and homophobic (and amazingly, she still has a job). More here.  And here.

Progressives in general have little use or admiration for free speech, for initiative, for lone wolves, for individualism, and especially for entrepreneurs, so niche publishing, the explosion in self-publishing, the ability to say what you want to say without passing the approval of  a left side publisher and its Social Justice Warrior editors is, to them, a downside, not something they see as a benefit.  Niche marketing is not a good thing unless it’s their niche.

 

Martin Wisse on Wis[e]e Words

“Puppy baiting for fun, not profit” – June 11

Spacefaring, Extradimensional Happy Kittens gets it right when they say we’re wasting time, energy and attention by engaging the Puppies: …

They miss one thing though: for all the outrage and anger it generates, it can also be fun to blogivate about how awful those people are. At least for those of us not the victim of harassement campaigns. It’s whack-a-mole, but it doesn’t have to cost too much energy as long as you manage to restrict yourself.

 

Peter Grant on Bayou Renaissance Man

“The conundrum of wider horizons and narrower systems” – June 11

This is why one side can categorize Sad or Rabid Puppies as ‘neo-Nazi’ or ‘racist’ or ‘bigoted’ or whatever.  Those words are defined on their own terms, not in relation to reality.  Anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together and an interest in history can define what actually made a Nazi a Nazi.  However, most people don’t bother to do that research.  They merely parrot the ‘Nazi’ label as it’s spoon-fed to them, and in time come to believe it, even though it’s factually false.  On the Puppy side of the fence, I’ve seen far too many people categorize all SJW’s as liars, communists, socialists, deluded, whatever.  I’ve no doubt some of them are, but not all of them – and if we refuse to look at our opponents as individuals, lumping them instead into categories or groups or races or ethnicities, aren’t we doing the same as both Communists and Nazis did?  They demonized “the bourgeoisie” or “the kulaks” or “the Jews” or “the Communists”, and treated them as subhuman, disposable groups.  (There was precious little to choose between Hitler and Stalin, between the Nazi concentration camps and the Soviet gulags.)  Both sides disposed of those they demonized without consideration for their individual humanity.  Aren’t we at risk of doing the same to our opponents, at least in our minds?

I already know that the extremists on both sides will scoff at me for saying that.  “You can’t compromise with evil!”  “It’s no good talking to bigots!”  “If you’re not for us, you’re against us!”  “If you’re not against them, you’re for them!”  Trouble is, who defines evil?  Who defines what is or is not a bigot?  What gives anyone the right to define my beliefs or attitudes or opinions on my behalf?  The answer, of course, is “Nothing and no-one” . . . but that won’t stop them trying.

 

Laura “Tegan” Gjovaag

“The ongoing Hugo mess comes to haunt me again…” – June 11

In short, VD manipulated the puppies, all of them. He whistled and they all trotted up panting, he fed them a piece of month-old meat and they gleefully ripped it apart and started barking on cue. He completely owned them. All of them. And they totally fell for it. They are his dogs and he knows it. Any puppy who responded to that without saying, “why didn’t you bring this up a month ago when it was first posted, instead of on the night the Nebula’s were awarded?” is totally in VD’s control. Their souls belong to him.

As for the comment by Gallo? Well, I don’t know if all the sads are extreme rightwing, but I’m relatively certain that anyone who follows and supports VD fits the other category. I’m also not really sure if all the works on the slates are bad, though I suspect some fit the category of reprehensible. She probably shouldn’t have posted it, but a lot of us post things we later regret. Most of us are lucky enough to not be monitored by a sociopathic misogynistic sicko who has managed to manipulate a bunch of fans into fighting his battles for him, who wants to hurt us just for spits and giggles.

 

James Schardt on The Otherwhere Gazette

“In Defense of Irene Gallo” – June 11

This is another Hugo Award/ Sad Puppy post. I wish it were not true but there is something that needs to be said. The title of this piece says I am defending Irene Gallo regarding the remarks she made on her Facebook page. I am, to a point. And by the end of this article I know she will be angry at me for doing so. The gaffe was ugly and nothing I have to say will make it look any better. I am serious about what I am saying here. I say this because it can be difficult to deal with the fact that someone hates you and actually believes you hate them and their beliefs in return.

 

TPI’s Reading Diary

“My Hugo award votes 2015 part 2 – Short stories” – June 11

All nominees in this category originate from the “puppy lists”. And it shows. I wonder why selected these stories to their slates. There are mostly a celebration of mediocre writing and extreme stupid plotting. The only decent story was Totaled by Kary English. As the nomination was manipulated (and stories were mostly bad) I will vote “no award” for the first place and put the only decent story to the second place.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“Skin Game (The Dresden Files #15), by Jim Butcher” – June 11

The writing here is nothing really exceptional, but it’s perfectly competent and smooth. The problem is that because this is a Hugo Best Novel nominee, I’m coming into the series at book number fifteen. At this point, the book relies on the fact that everyone reading it knows the major recurring characters and the world they live in–and I don’t. And sadly, without the backstory, I don’t care.

 

Patrick May

“2015 Hugo Awards Related Work Category” – June 10

[Preceded by comments on all nominees.]

My Hugo ballot for this category is:

  1. Letters from Gardner
  2. The Hot Equations: Thermodynamics and Military SF
  3. No Award
  4. Wisdom from My Internet
  5. Why Science is Never Settled
  6. Transhuman and Subhuman: Essays on Science Fiction and Awful Truth.

Yes, “Transhuman and Subhuman” is bad enough to rank below two pieces that aren’t even appropriate for the category.

 

Charlotte Ashley in Apex Magazine

“Clavis Aurea #30: 2015 Hugo Awards Edition (Short Fiction)”

[Includes comments on all nominated short fiction.]

None of these stories challenged or delighted me the way a story meant to represent the best of the year should. They range from poorly executed to merely dull, a great disappointment, given some of the truly excellent work that was published last year.

 

Kate Paulk on Mad Genius Club

“Attack of the Infinite Stupid” – June 11

For starters, the Evil Legion of Evil is not Nazi, neo or otherwise. As if we’d associate ourselves with those losers. Seriously, how can an Evil organization expect to be taken seriously if it models itself after a political ideology that started by kicking out some of the most competent people in the country, and went on to our world’s version of “Never start a land war in Asia”, invading Russia.

We are most certainly not racist, misogynist, or homophobic. How could we be when half the ELOE’s founders are female, when the International Lord of HATE (Hi, Larry!) is Hispanic, right alongside Her Draconic Majesty, The Beautiful But Evil Space Princess, Sarah Hoyt. We even have a Brain in a Jar, and a Powder Blue Care Bear with a Bleeding Heart And a Flamethrower, two Redheads of Doom (no one really knows which one is The Redhead of Doom and which is the Other Redhead of Doom). I’m not entirely sure how one classifies the sexuality of a brain in a jar (presumably sapiosexual) but I’m not going to be the one to ask.

Is that not a truly diverse group of people? I haven’t even started on the Vile Faceless Minions or the Mini-Onions in the Tower, or… Oh, nevermind. These twits will never believe a word of it anyway.

 

 

 

943 thoughts on “The Castalia of Fu Manchihuahua 6/11

  1. ‘I do not read what you are talking about so there is nothing for me there.’

    Still, you kind of elided it from your good-faith, big-hearted, generous and friendly characterisation of several pages of discussion, the book portion of which was a substantive part. The part of fannish identity most central to the Hugos, the part you dismiss as nothing. If there is nothing for you there in terms of what you read, there is also nothing stopping you from putting what you do read in there.

  2. Mark: I love me some Heinlein. My personal favourite is probably The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. You?

    One of mine is definitely Double Star. Also, I seem to remember a fondness for The Door into Summer. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a good one, and The Puppet Masters is an admitted guilty pleasure for special reasons.

  3. Also, in an alternate universe, The Day After Tomorrow is a totally awesome book with the racist plot premise completely replaced by another concept which totally works.

    Someday, I will figure out how to write a non-racist version of the The Day After Tomorrow which retains the cool plot parts, and become wildly rich and famous.

  4. @Nigel:

    Dammit, you’re just trying to get me to rewrite Pink Floyd’s “In the Flesh,” aren’t you? Very well – but I smashed both versions (intro and full) together for effect:

    So ya
    Thought ya
    Might like to
    Go to the con…

    To feel the thrill of adulation
    That “cool writer!” throng…

    Tell me, has something annoyed you, snowflake?
    Isn’t this how you were told it would be?
    If you wanna find out why you won’t win the prize
    You’ll just have to man up and open your eyes!

    Are those SJWs, singin’ lobby filk tonight?
    Put ’em up against the wall!
    That booth in the dealer’s room – are those Tor books I see?
    Put ’em up against the wall…
    Why, that one’s an atheist!
    And that one’s a GIRL!
    Who let all these lefties into your world?
    There’s some reading fanfic!
    And there – queer books with PLOTS!
    Why, it’s almost as if
    They don’t all worship Vox!

  5. JJ:

    Oh, I love Double Star and The Door into Summer. Comfort re-reads, both of ’em… but then, a lot of Heinlein falls into that category for me.

  6. @JJ

    The Day After Tomorrow was one of my very first Heinlein books, found lurking at the back of my school library. Teenage me loved the whole “defeat them with Science!” plan.

  7. Mark:”I love me some Heinlein. My personal favourite is probably The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. You?”
    I’d have to say the same. I really liked the style of the narrator. The other favorite would be starship troopers that one really got me thinking about systems of government.

    Nigel: “Still, you kind of elided it from your good-faith, big-hearted, generous and friendly characterisation of several pages of discussion, the book portion of which was a substantive part. The part of fannish identity most central to the Hugos, the part you dismiss as nothing. If there is nothing for you there in terms of what you read, there is also nothing stopping you from putting what you do read in there.”

    I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it. I consider most of your blathering about books to be off topic in these threads.

  8. I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it. I consider most of your blathering about books to be off topic in these threads.

    And that is why you don’t understand the Hugo awards at all.

  9. @aeou: “I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it. I consider most of your blathering about books to be off topic in these threads.”

    …which pretty much says it all. What on earth could “blathering about books” and which ones we like possibly have to do with awards given to books based on which ones people like?

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: the face, it is to palm.

  10. Aeou: I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it. I consider most of your blathering about books to be off topic in these threads.

    Thank you for providing me with an incredible belly-busting laugh to start my weekend. This statement is absolutely *priceless* — and as Aaron says shows the extent to which you fail to understand the “Hugo controversy.”

    And if you didn’t notice, there were people who loved Heinlein’s work and who still continue to love it.

    Me, I was a huge fan up until I got boobs (fourteen, late developer), and started noticing with a bit more detail what (generally) happened to women in Heinlein’s world. Since I was also pretty sure I didn’t want to get married, didn’t want to have a baby (the live birth film in PE class settled that, on top of babysitting for years to earn fun money to buy BOOKS), there wasn’t much there there. But I retained my love for _Moon_ for decades–in fact, I just wrote an intersectional analysis of it for a collection on his Heinlein’s work. I know there’s a book-length project on Heinlein due out fairly soon as well by someone I know is generally classes as a SJW. In the course of my article, I read a bit more about his life than I had before, and was fascinated by the complexity and changes of his political views.

  11. aeou: I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it. I consider most of your blathering about books to be off topic in these threads.

    And this is exactly why the Puppies have zero understanding of people who aren’t Puppies. For Puppies, the Hugos are about some lameass mythical Culture War.

    For non-Puppies, the Hugos are all about the books. If it’s not about books, it’s “Off-Topic”.

  12. For Puppies, the Hugos are about some lameass mythical Culture War.

    A Culture War in which, as aeou has just amply demonstrated, the Puppies don’t actually understand the culture they are fighting over.

  13. ‘Dammit, you’re just trying to get me to rewrite Pink Floyd’s “In the Flesh,’

    Hah! Sucker!

    (I would be lying if I said it wasn’t running though my head. Kudos!)

  14. ‘I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it’

    Any time you want to start, feel free.

  15. aeou: I am here to discuss the Hugo controversy not to discuss books unrelated to it. I consider most of your blathering about books to be off topic in these threads.
    What’s the poor deer supposed to do? His Voxness hasn’t told him what he’s allowed to think about other books.

  16. My first Heinleins were, when I was 15 or 16, Job and The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. I thought they were great! Funny and packed with wild ideas that blew my tiny mind! Couldn’t square them with any of the other Heinleins I tried, though. Bounced of Starship Troopers, had to push a bit to get through Tunnel In The Sky. They styles were too different. There was a delicious ironic wit to the latter Heinleins that I couldn’t find in the early ones.

  17. Loving the comfort read threads!

    Mine have changed over the years: for decades and decades, it was the Oz books (which I constantly re-read as a child, after starting them about age 5 with my best friend–she and I would have sleepovers in which we’d spend hours lying on the bed reading books together. We also rode horses together, but the parents, mutual, wondered about the getting together to read). So even as an adult, I’d re-read those when I was depressed or down (I came to love the Ruth Plumley Thompson ones more, overall, for a while).

    Now, the Oz books haven’t held up quite so well (though I still have them, through all the moves), comfort reads tend to be multiple and varied.

    Nthing Bujold (anything by Bujold, I pick it up, it sucks me in) though that may shift a bit since I’m writing an essay on queerness in the Chalion series which has made me look at some parts of her work a bit differently.

    Sarah Monette’s Labrynths series — that one grabbed me hard (stayed up all night reading the first one, luckily I bought the second the same time in the bookstore). The double first person narrative is brilliant in that series (even more so when she adds more narrators later on). My favorite of all time I adore until death is Mildmay. (Goblin Emperor, also by Monette/Addison, became a comfort read from the start as well–a friend described it as competence porn which is perfect).

    Tanya Huff, especially her recent Enchantment Emporium and the Summoning novels.

    The dragons! The Aunties! The Gale women!!!!!!!

    Ilona Andrews (everything and anything she writes). She’s actually a husband and wife writing team.

    There are more but I realized I must feed the doggies. Will try to get a gravatar because I hope to spend more time actively participating here as well as reading.

  18. I loved Puppet Masters so much when I was a kid I have been a little reluctant to return to it for fear the Suck Fairy came a-visiting.

  19. Peace Is My Middle Name: I loved Puppet Masters so much when I was a kid I have been a little reluctant to return to it for fear the Suck Fairy came a-visiting.

    Me, too! As I said, it has a resonance with me for very special locational reasons.

    However, I did read it again much later, and I will admit that The Suck Fairy flew by and threw some Suck Glitter on it. Though not as bad as the movie with Donald Sutherland and Julie Warner — which had the potential for greatness, and ended up riddled with Suckiness, to my very great sadness.

  20. @aeou

    You mentioned Heinlein, so I thought I’d jump in. How about the current Hugo nominations then? Which of the novels have you read, and what did you think of them?

  21. DB on June 12, 2015 at 11:53 am said:

    Vox Day writes that the comments that he’s neo-Nazi are coming from “the same people who insist that Brad Torgersen is racist despite his marriage to a black woman.”

    I’ve noticed before that, whenever Torgerson is accused of racism, he posts photos of his black wife as if he’s under some delusion that her existence somehow immunizes him from being racist in any other thing he says or does. It doesn’t. This is called the “some of my best friends are …” defense and it’s entirely vacant: you could look up its sordid history. What Torgerson says is either racist or not-racist regardless of who his friends are, or who his wife is.

    I was only presuming that Torgerson suffers from this delusion: here’s demonstration that Vox definitely believes it.

    Another misunderstanding, imho, is thinking that women can’t have sexist ideas/actions toward other women or PoC can’t have racist ideas/actions toward people of their own demographic. We’re all immersed in the same culture. Those in a ‘demeaned’* group, even if they recognize and oppose their ‘demeaning’*, can still hold some of the same toxic ideas and act on them.

    Even if you have a female partner, a brown-colored friend or a gay relative who AGREES with the demeaning judgements of our culture, it doesn’t make those judgements correct/good/desireable!

    *couldn’t think of a better all-around word.

  22. On the Heinlein front, I like most of it, but if I have to pick favorites, give me CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY. And I’m a sucker for “The Menace From Earth.”

  23. I wonder if anyone else found (Night Watch) not very well edited? One thing that stood out for me was the older Vimes seeing his old mum again and he had no emotional reaction. As far as I can tell from Vimes’s canon, he loved his mother, she was decent to him although they were poor and he had a hard upbringing, and we presume she’s passed away some time ago.

    And he sees his old dead mum again, alive and well, and…nothing?

    I found that really unlike Vimes.

    Did I misinterpret?

    As I understood it, Older Vimes From The Future was made an offer by Young Vimes Of The Past to meet Young Vimes’s mother, and he rejected this for a few reasons. For one thing, it would probably be too painful for him; it had nearly destroyed him to see Sybil as a teenage girl, for instance.

    Also, how would Mother Vimes react if this strange man who her son brought home… burst into tears and started hugging her? Would it have horrified her? Then things in the past would have become all the more difficult for Older Vimes. Remember, he also had to emulate what he remembered John Keel having done the first time around.

    And lastly:

    I think Young Vimes was trying to set up “Sergeant Keel” on a date with Young Vimes’s widowed mother.

  24. Rrede:” Me, I was a huge fan up until I got boobs (fourteen, late developer), and started noticing with a bit more detail what (generally) happened to women in Heinlein’s world.”
    What happened to the women in Heinlein’s worlds?

  25. Any recommendations for things roughly along the lines of The Goblin Emperor? I’m not particularly familiar with courtly intrigue stuff.

    @Tintinaus

    One thing that annoyed me about the Beale interview was both of them failing to notice that Wright’s main influence was really Alan Garner. Most specifically Weirdstone of Brisengamen and Elidor.

    Ruining Garner that comprehensively should be illegal.

    @Kurt Busiek

    On the Heinlein front, I like most of it, but if I have to pick favorites, give me CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY. And I’m a sucker for “The Menace From Earth.”

    Citizen of the Galaxy was my first Heinlein and I’m still very fond of it.

    I find the idea that we wouldn’t like any Heinlein a little odd.

    @Bruce Baugh

    I must get round to reading the Dead Zone book instead of just watching the tv show. Post-disability narratives are an interest of mine, for obvious reasons.

  26. @Nigel – “The book stuff is literally nothing to you. I wish you’d stop confirming our prejudices about Puppies so effectively. it’s disheartening.”

    Yep, aeou literally cannot see all the discussion about books or other sfnal things because he doesn’t really understand what a healthy online community looks like. Remember he comes here from VD’s site. Blithering semi coherent hatred is all that he has.

    I actually enjoy seeing him – after all, I think that ‘the rest of sf’ is correct and the Puppies are over the top, but aeou provides confirmation of that. It’s reassuring.

  27. “Citizen of the Galaxy” is my favorite Heinlein of all. “The Door Into Summer” was my first encounter with “closed-loop” time travel, which I’ve been fond of as a concept ever since. And I will readily admit that “Stranger in a Strange Land” blew my mind when I was in my early teens. I honestly have no idea how I’d react to it if I went back and read it now, but it sure was a heck of a trip then.

  28. aeou on June 13, 2015 at 8:03 am said:

    What happened to the women in Heinlein’s worlds?

    Why don’t you read the books and find out?

  29. @aeou “…with what you’ve been saying about Heinlein I don’t trust you enough to try to find out.”

    Dude! Did you not get the puppy-memo? That talking point is so last March!

    It turns out that a lot of us in the science fiction crowd love Heinlein, and he didn’t at all write Torgersen style simple adventure fiction. His books were full of what you guys consider ‘message’. Or did you not notice that the heroes of both Starship Troopers and The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress were non-white?

    Anyway, the puppies stopped talking about Heinlein months ago once they realized that we know more about his books than they do. Try to keep up.

  30. Wow, that timing was something else!

    “Anyway, the puppies stopped talking about Heinlein months ago once they realized that we know more about his books than they do.”

    “What happened to the women in Heinlein’s worlds?”

    See? This is why I like having aeou around. He doesn’t realize it, but he provides some of the best arguments against believing the puppies.

  31. @Kurt Busiek: “And I’m a sucker for “The Menace From Earth.””

    Teenage girl engineer! Subverting the standard teen rom-com plot! I can forgive him a lot just for having that story exist right when I needed to find it.

  32. Shambles: I agree with you, and play an agreeable chord on the bedpost bassoon in your honor.

  33. aeou:
    What happened to the women in Heinlein’s worlds?

    I shall assume that you have in fact read the works and that you simply did not “see” the problem the way I did. As I said, I loved his stuff (I loved all the SFF I was reading, starting at age three — early reader who got in trouble in first grade for reading at a fourth grade level). I was born in 1955, and this was small town Idaho during the 1960s and 1970s well before any sf cons came around (I would have KILLED to get to a Spokane con back in the day), and I was the only one, except my father, who read SFF. And back then and there, like some places here and now, girls weren’t supposed to read SFF. I spent a lot of time resisting compulsory femininity (to what extent I could–girls were not allowed to wear pants to school not even when it hit freaking 30 below and there was ten feet of snow–though we could wear pants UNDER our skirts while waiting for the school bus as long as we took them off before we entered the classroom) and compulsory heterosexuality. Heinlein’s female characters–and they are many of them amazing–all end up discovering their love for het sex (and the fact that he was writing sex in a genre that, like comics, had forbidden it because of the young male virginal readers) and having babies.

    I’m a queer woman who never wanted children (cats and dogs, yes, but not children). I found it quite irritating that everyone and everything around me was saying “marry marry marry babee babee babee.” It was…not fun. (Hell, one of my classmates didn’t come to the 20th high school reunion because she was ashamed she wasn’t yet married–I was there, all snarky and ahahaha, I got my doctorate, and I’m not married and I have a job and I don’t have kids, and who cares.” Turns out nobody did. And some others weren’t married either, and had all gotten the hell out of Idaho, and we had a great time talking–and the highlight of the event was one of the popular girls who of course married right out of high school and who now was riding herd on her multiple children looking at me sort of wistfully and saying it might be nice to not have kids and to be able to do what you wanted whenever.)

    A lot of readers were criticizing what Heinlein wrote in the 1960s for being preachy and full of message and all radical and liberal and eek, sex and incest. And that was cool. I kept reading Heinlein sporadically until….hmm….the one that came out that had four characters doing nothing but argue with each other in a spaceship.

    Look at happened to Wyoming in MHM: she’s a kickass Free Woman (never really explained what that was although it seems to mean she doesn’t allow men to pay for her expenses), a high-up revolutionary, and ready to rock and roll. Then she sort of……fades into the background and all, granted into a line marriage (but still clearly heteronormative if not heterosexual). It’s possible to argue as I just did in my essay, heh, that Mannie as a first person narrator is limited in his perspective (every first person narrator is), and his brief references to what Mimi and Sidris and Wyoh and Hazel and the Baker Street Irregulars and the Lysistrata Corps hint at the existence of this whole world in which women and children are actively participating in the revolution, but of course, because Mannie, we never see it. (And I’d love to see more of that world, and hear more of Michelle and Wyoh’s discussions when Mannie’s not around).

    Erm, shall stop before wall of text collapses……

  34. rrede at 6:18:

    (Goblin Emperor, also by Monette/Addison, became a comfort read from the start as well–a friend described it as competence porn which is perfect).

    I’ve been thinking recently that I have a big weakness for emotional competence porn — stories about people who work hard to communicate vulnerably and effectively even in relationships that make that difficult, who utilize honesty and self-reflection to correct hurtful misunderstandings, and so on. This is probably the biggest reason I prefer Elementary‘s Holmes/Watson relationship to Sherlock’s, and I think that the protagonists’ capacity for it is the biggest thing in common between Monette’s novels as Monette and her novel as Addison.

  35. mede: That was a good bit on women in MiaHM especially. A derivative work telling the story from Hazel’s PoV could be pretty great. Lesbians and feminist cadres were certainly involved in the revolution, even if Manny (Heinlein) didn’t notice them.

    We’ve been reading James SA Corey’s latest Expanse book — “Nemesis Games.” Great stuff.

    Now for Puppy content: I just remembered a good example of mediocre SF (and mediocre fiction) promoted by NPR, WaPo, and the legacy publishing establishment because the author had lit credentials and connections, and the story had a political agenda. As an intro to SFF for young people, this kind of hopeless-future story is disastrous, and it convinced me to start writing SF myself. I give you “Pills and Starships”: https://substratewars.wordpress.com/2014/06/16/pills-and-starships-pseudo-science-fiction/

  36. @rrede – “…the one that came out that had four characters doing nothing but argue with each other in a spaceship.”

    Number of The Beast. It was… Not universally enjoyed.

  37. @aeou
    You mentioned Heinlein, so I thought I’d jump in. How about the current Hugo nominations then? Which of the novels have you read, and what did you think of them?
    None, nothing.

    Have read totalled, turncoat, BBDC and parliament of beasts. The first three were solid but the version of turncoat I read has some editing issues. The last I can not judge. My total experience of fantasy consists of most of discworld, rose of belgarion (dunno English title) and Lord of the rings.

  38. It’s noteworthy that it’s the authors the Puppies hate – Scalzi and Stross – who are the writers who are actually producing interesting, award-winning works that are in conversation with the SF traditions of RAH.

    Meanwhile, Beale and Wright busy themselves writing terrible, terrible Bible fanfic and holding it up as if their derivative tripe is supposed to be of interest to the SF community in the 21st century.

  39. Andy H: I’ve been thinking recently that I have a big weakness for emotional competence porn — stories about people who work hard to communicate vulnerably and effectively even in relationships that make that difficult, who utilize honesty and self-reflection to correct hurtful misunderstandings, and so on.

    Ooooo, how brilliant. I was thinking more of the other types of competence, but you’re spot on in terms of *emotional* competence being one of the most important elements of the novels. I think Monette/Addison ups the stakes by writing protagonists who have been abused as children.

    SPOILERS FOR LABRYNTHS SERIES
    *
    *
    *
    *
    *
    *
    Mildmay is the PERFECT example of emotional competence despite/because of (?) his experiences, while Felix is *not* (and even over the long arc of the four novels, while improving slightly, still realizes his own abusive tendencies).

    (Alas I bounced hard off both the contemporary Sherlock adaptations, learning in the process that apparently I’m a purist about the period setting more than I knew).

  40. Aaron: “A Culture War in which, as aeou has just amply demonstrated, the Puppies don’t actually understand the culture they are fighting over.”

    Aaron, this is why I worry about you.

    It is not some kind of gotcha that we don’t get current science fiction culture or rather your cliques science fiction culture. It is the reason we are having this “discussion”. It is part of what sad puppies is about. We don’t like the current Hugos and aim to change them for the better.

  41. rob_matic: “Why don’t you read the books and find out?”

    Why don’t you let the woman answer for herself? I am sure she doesn’t need your help.

  42. We don’t like the current Hugos and aim to change them for the better.

    Which would be so much more convincing if the apparent criteria for improving the Hugos wasn’t apparently being:
    a) Associated with Brad Torgersen
    b) Published by Castalia House

    It would also be more convincing if the author of one the slates hasn’t said that he’s going to ignore his own slate and vote for a work for best novel (The Three Body Problem) that only became a nominee after at least one author on his slate withdrew.

  43. @Rrede

    I thought your complaint would be something of from that vein but you threw me for a spinner anyway. I would defend Heinlein on the subject of Wyoming Knott because moon sex ratios are so skewed. Men pay for things even when sex ratios are close to 50/50 it would only get worse on the moon. A woman refusing favors in that culture is noteworthy for that alone.

    I won’t argue your premises but I think they are insane. From them your judgement of Heinlein/MhM is logical.

  44. I didn’t finish Number of the Beast either. After the fourth time they had swapped leader I gave up.

    Aeou: Why don’t you let the woman answer for herself? I am sure she doesn’t need your help.

    Wow, rude much? Plus “the woman” has a name. I suggest you use it unless you want to prove yourself to be the sterotypical misogynistic prick I expect from a Rabid puppy.

  45. Tintinaus:”
    Wow, rude much? Plus “the woman” has a name. I suggest you use it unless you want to prove yourself to be the sterotypical misogynistic prick I expect from a Rabid puppy.”
    But her name wasn’t important, only that she is a woman and that no man should presume she need help. That would be sexist.

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