aka It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a sad puppy in possession of a published story must be in want of a Hugo
From rules wonk to rap filk, we have it all in today’s roundup courtesy of Adam-Troy Castro, Keith “Kilo” Watt, Jameson Quinn, Ian Mond, Kat Jones, Lis Carey, Joe Sherry, Reinder Dijkhuis, Brian Niemeier, Rebekah Golden, Lou Antonelli and Vox Day. (Title credit goes out to today’s File 770 contributing editors Kurt Busiek and Peace Is My Middle Name.)
Vox Day in e-mail – May 26
[How many GamerGaters were involved during the Hugo nominating phase? Vox Day says people overestimated in today’s comments.]
The GamerGate involvement in RP/SP through the nomination period is limited to two individuals, me and Daddy Warpig. We are both original GG (GG before Baldwin) and we are both Rabid Puppies.
There are a few GGers who have gotten involved post-nomination, but I don’t know how many. The RP are basically the Vile Faceless Minions plus a few Dread Ilk.
You may wish to note that there are more Vile Faceless Minions (366) than Rabid Puppy nominating votes. That’s because the extent of the Rabid Puppies campaign was a single blog post. Every Rabid Puppy is a VP reader. We didn’t need GG and we knew it, as you can confirm from our pre-shortlist discussions. There are some GGers buying supporting memberships. How many, I do not know.
Adam-Troy Castro on Facebook – May 26
Among the revelations in the “Return of Kings” blog post about how women in publishing are keeping true men writers down:
If you are a first-time writer and the acquiring editor decides that you’re an asshole — literally, if she is given reason to believe you’re an asshole who will be a pain to work with — she will likely make the decision to not buy your book.
This is represented as part of the shameful status quo that is keeping men down….
The other option is, of course, to not be an asshole, and is left unconsidered.
Keith “Kilo” Watt on Making Light
“E Pluribus Hugo: Out of Many, A Hugo” – May 26
In this thread we will hammer out the formal language of the proposal, any FAQs we wish to include, and strategize for the presentation at the business meeting itself. At this point, we’ll consider the system itself locked in, so we are really only looking at the language.
- RME instead of 6th place
- (1,1), (1,2), or (1,2,2) for ties in points
- Option 2a (if there is a tie for nominations, eliminate the one with fewer points; if there is a tie for both nominations and points, eliminate them both)
There is one more issue that is still up for debate: Should we explicitly empower the Hugo admins to use further tie breakers in the future if they decide it’s necessary? I’ve written the proposal and FAQ explanations assuming that we do, however, a case can be made for not worrying about giving them the power explicitly. We should settle that question here. I think that the way I’ve written the “empowerment” makes it okay to include it, but for myself, I don’t feel a strong need to. I’m definitely not opposed to it, however.
….19. Wasn’t this system just designed by Social Justice Warriors to block the Good Stuff? It is true that much of the discussion for this system occurred on Teresa and Patrick Nielsen Hayden’s “Making Light” discussion board, and it is also true that groups such as the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies consider TNH and PNH to be The Enemy, and therefore completely biased and not to be trusted. Other than serving as occasional moderators, TNH and PNH had no real input in the discussions of the system, however. Those of us who worked on the system were very clear that our goal was not to keep the Sad/Rabid Puppies off of the Hugo ballot, and that any system which specifically targets any type of work is inherently wrong and unfair. One of the members of the group is a retired US Naval officer, a combat veteran, a certified Navy marksman, a Christian, and considers Robert Heinlein to be the greatest science fiction author who has ever lived. In short, he is exactly the Puppies’ demographic. But any slate, of any sort, be it a Sad Puppy or a Happy Kitten of Social Justice, breaks the Hugo Award because a small percentage of voters can effectively prevent any other work from appearing on the final ballot. This is a major flaw in the Hugo nomination system, and it is a flaw that must be fixed if the integrity of the award is to be maintained. Politics should play no role whatsoever in whether a work is Hugo-worthy or not.
Jameson Quinn in a comment on Making Light
Final update on the gofundme:
Fully funded, and beyond!
I’m truly in awe of the generosity this community has shown, both to me personally and to the cause of voting reform. Not only has the main campaign received $1440, beyond the goal of $1400; but I’ve also been offered a Sasquan attending membership, so in effect it’s actually $250 over the goal.
Ian Mond on The Hysterical Hamster
“Who Should Win The Hugo Award For Best Novel” – May 27
The Anderson in particular led me to question this whole notion purported by the Sad / Rabid Puppies that good SF has big ideas and entertains. Having read two examples of this sort of SF, both the KJA and Charles Gannon’s awful Nebula nominee, Trial by Fire (review forthcoming) I can only conclude that my idea of entertainment and big, high concept ideas lives in a very different Universe than what the Sad Puppies are aiming to promote. This isn’t snobbishness***** on my part, I just struggle to see the appeal of novels that are so poorly written.
But let’s get back to the point of this blog post:
Who Do I Want To See Win – I tossed and turned about this, but I’ve finally landed with The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison (Sarah Monette)
Who Do I Think Will Win – I might not have been so keen on the novel, but I believe that Ann Leckie will take home her second novel Hugo for Ancillary Sword.
Kat Jones on CiaraCat Sci-Fi Review
“Review: The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison” – May 26
It’s an interesting slice of life, and I found myself caring about some of the characters. But for me, it wasn’t a compelling STORY.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
This is the first pure fun I’ve had reading Hugo nominees this year, barring The Goblin Emperor, which I read prior to the announcement of the ballot.
Joe Sherry on Adventures In Reading
“Thoughts on the Hugo Award Nominees: Professional Artist” – May 26
There is a lot of quality art being produced by the 2015 nominees. Julie Dillon, last year’s winner for Professional Artist, continued to produce excellent work. Based on their work included in the Hugo Voter’s Packet, Greenwood, Pollack, and DouPonce have also produced good work. As a point of personal preference, Greenwood is my top choice here, but it was very close between Dillon and Greenwood. While referencing the Voter’s Packet is a touch unfair because unless you’re also a voter, you can’t see that work. Unfortunately, except for Dillon, none of the other nominees have work posted at the Hugo Eligible Artists tumblr (a great reference for both fan and pro work, by the way), but you should be able to browse the various websites I’ve linked above to get a feel for their work.
Reinder Dijkhuis on Obsession Du Jour
“Notes/first impressions: 3 Hugo-nominated graphic novels” – May 25
Above, I’ve dwelled on the flaws of the comics discussed a lot, and I would like to mention that I really did enjoy two of them and found things to enjoy in the third. They have flaws but they’re not disastrous ones. As the incompleteness problem is apparently par for the course for this category, I’ve decided to ignore this and give all works the benefit of the doubt on that score as far as award-worthiness is concerned. I have decided to vote all four above No Award for the Hugos, in, as it happens, the exact same order as I read and discussed them. My preliminary vote for the category, then, is
- Ms Marvel
- Sex Criminals
- Rat Queens
- Saga
- No Award.
Reinder Dijkhuis on Obsession Du Jour
“Notes/First Impressions: Zombie Nation by Carter Reid” – May 26
…. Everything about it looks copied from other comics. That includes the writing, which is based on just a small number of stale, sexist jokes and pop culture references that need to be retired. Who in their right minds nominated this?
https://twitter.com/RoguesClwydRhan/status/603300743957848064
Brian Niemeier on Superversive SF
“Transhuman and Subhuman Part VI: Swordplay in Space” – May 26
“Why is the preferred weapon of the Galactic Empire the sword?” John C. Wright tackles that question in the sixth part of his essay collection Transhuman and Subhuman.
Following the premise that a man’s attitude toward war and death reveals his outlook on life, Wright examines a selection of great science fiction books for the answer to why authors attempting to imagine the future so often employ archaic conventions.
Wright posits five basic views on war…
Rebekah Golden
“2015 Hugo Awards Best Movie: Reviewing Lego Movie” – May 26
I really liked the Lego Movie. I believe it has a lot more content to it than first glance would give it. It is interesting and has a good emotional punch as well as a significant number of fun moments.
Lou Antonelli on Facebook – May 26
On the way to Kansas City for ConQuest 46, I had to drive through Hugo, Oklahoma, so I stopped and took a selfie of me with the city sign, in celebration of my …two Hugo nominations.
Now, I know right now, some of you are thinking, “Hah! That’s as close to a Hugo as you will ever get, Antonelli!”
Lou Antonelli poses with sign outside Hugo, Oklahoma.
Vox Day on Vox Popoli
“You don’t like the medicine, Doctor?” – May 26
And because Public Enemy is always appropriate:
He book-reviewed, he S.J.W’d
Vile minions viewed his anti-Puppy feud
One-star the rating, listen to him double trouble
He signs in now he’s pushing for the lower level
Like crashing cars he’s out there stealing stars
From books he took without a single look.
Taking a toll ’cause his soul broke with the poll
From the revelation… of a Puppy Nation.
Now this is what I mean an anti-Puppy machine
If Hugo come out at all, he won’t come out clean
But look around here go the sound of the wrecking clown
Boom and pound when he put ’em down
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Well, I WAS probably trying to be a smarta*s, which is an explanation but not an excuse.
I didn’t post the wisecrack on her page, I did it on mine.
I tried my(somewhat lacking) google fu as suggested above, but there aren’t any real strong links to Hoyt or Williamson until 19th April where they joined Brad on a HoneyBadger Podcast(a MRA group with GG affiliations). Since this is after the proverbial hit the fan it would make sense that they would be roped in to talk about the controversy.
So for the moment I am siding with Brian and Mike, that it is likely the S-RP/GG connection is over rated.
SP is just another, as Kyle Wagner of DeadSpin puts it, mutant variant of the traditional American grievance movement, a rearguard action marching under the banner of high-minded critique.
I suppose we should just hope it doesn’t mutate so badly it kills its host.
Lou Antonelli: Well, I WAS probably trying to be a smarta*s, which is an explanation but not an excuse. I didn’t post the wisecrack on her page, I did it on mine.
And you don’t consider, as an adult, that saying something like this is hugely problematic, and something for which you should be apologizing?
Craig R. I suspect that if the self-declared libertarians were to actually be plunked down in their libertarian paradise they would be in for a rude awaking.
In the case of Mr Day-Beale it would seem he is a ‘libertarian’ (or so I have been sold by some of his apologists) who doesn’t believe in the free market.
What a taxonomic conundrum he is. If only we had a word for rightwing people with extreme views about race, a belief in their own inherent superiority, and a disdain for naive capitalism.
Hampus Eckerman said:
When reading that quote, it seems like Torgersen is talking about gamergaters contacting Hoyt and Williamson, not of them themselves being gators.
Oh yes, you’re right. I take it all back.
“I quipped that name apparently was Gaelic for “Not all the Nazis are in Germany.” That’s what led to the assertion that I called her a Nazi.”
That is actually calling her a Nazi.
For what value of “calling her a Nazi” is saying her name means “Not all the Nazis are in Germany” *not* calling her a Nazi?
When your profession is a wordsmith, you are presumed to understand the use of words.
Rebekah: that photoshop job just about made my day 🙂
Hmmm. I had been assuming Vox had been successful at getting Gators involved …basically because he and Larry said so. I was aware of his tendency to rhetoric, even, but unaware of its extent, I guess.
The more fool me. For now I’ll tentatively assume the jump in Puppy numbers and the tendency to publicize the Puppy movement in places not typically known for their interest in SFF are unrelated.
Mike Glyer wrote:
I suspect this is mathematically somewhat like Heinlein’s rules for writers, that each step eliminates 90% of the group remaining from those eliminated in the previous step.
If the Aaron above is who I think he is, I took exception to when, in a Twitter post, he called me, Brad Torgersen, Larry Corriea and John C. Wright “assholes” out of the blue, and I let him know it.
Oh don’t sell yourself short. You didn’t “let me know” you took exception. You definitively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are an asshole.
First off, you earned the tweet. The “brutal encounter” you describe having with Deidre Moen was you acting like a jerk in the comments of her blog and her banning you to avoid the headache of dealing with a jerk. You then ran off to call her a Nazi for doing this. Calling someone a Nazi behind their back because you were banned from a personal blog is the action of an asshole (and a cowardly asshole at that).
Your response to my tweet from my personal twitter account was to look up my work e-mail and send me a semi-literate e-mail in which you threatened to come to where I work and cause trouble for me. I still have the e-mail that contains this threat. Lest anyone think Lou was simply blowing off steam, he also looked up the office number where I work and called up to make sure that he had the correct address. It was only when you realized that your threats weren’t having their intended effect that you folded like a cheap suit.
In short, your response to being called an asshole on the internet was to try to threaten my job in some way. Your response to being called an asshole was to confirm that you are, in fact, an asshole.
@Aaron:
Wow, that’s not good.
My original comments on Moen’s blog were in defense; I wasn’t acting like a jerk. She has a bad attitude and dropped the blog ban pretty fast, which is why I couldn’t post on her blog. Then again, it’s her blog. she can say what she wants, and I said what I want on my blog.
You forgot to mention that you work for the federal government and were tweeting on government time. That’s what I really took exception to.
As far as folding, instead I’m waiting for the 2016 election to get closer, because I’ve already been told you are going to be the subject of a congressional investigation and some Republicans want to make political hay of your behavior.
How classy.
Both of today’s titles are awesome. Two thumbs up!
I have to agree with Lou that his comments on Moens blog weren’t that bad. It was more him reacting to be called a problem. I think Moen overreacted. And Lou overreacted (even more) after that. But anyone can check for themselves.
http://deirdre.net/the-puppy-free-hugo-award-voters-guide/
Lou: How do you know that Aaron wasn’t on a break? Really, is that an excuse?
Nyq Only wrote:
Indeed — as we both know we do.
To paraphrase the late Senator Lloyd Bentsen, I know libertarians. Libertarians are my friends. Theodore Beale/Vox Day is no libertarian.
Hampus – Well, I don’t know, but at this point it;s up to the appropriate authorities to decide.
As I’ve said before, the idea that there were a surge of GG nominators is not supported by the facts. That being said, the RP defiantly have defined themselves at various points as part of GamerGate or cobelligerents with GamerGate in a wider culture war. There are also a number, though less now then there were, of active users posting under the #SadPuppies hashtag supporting both Vox Day and GamerGate. This support for GamerGate is one of the differences between the SP & the RP supporters, if not their leadership.
Well, now I know that Lou Antonelli is a Vox-Day-doxxer-in-Training, and is at least as bad behavior-wise as John C Wright.
Which is cool for me (though not so cool for Aaron), because that means yet another piece of drivel written by a sociopath in the Hugo packet that I don’t have to read.
You forgot to mention that you work for the federal government and were tweeting on government time.
Well, no. The original tweet was not on government time. You then decided to e-mail me at work. Tweeting while at work isn’t prohibited, nor is it an issue. The idea that there will be a Congressional investigation into the fact that someone called you an asshole on twitter is laughable.
Kurt Busiek’s is brilliant.
I’m pleased to be in such company.
Well, I don’t know, but at this point it;s up to the appropriate authorities to decide.
They’ve decided. That’s why you ran away with your tail between your legs – because it was clear that your threats wouldn’t work. But go ahead, keep digging.
Matt Y said:
Since I am currently thoroughly enjoying The Goblin Emperor, my first reaction was to resent that remark on behalf of Maia. I could feel his ears droop when I read it!
My outrage would be that congress would waste time on a hugo tweet investigation! If the words of this person have any weight. 1) don’t they have real problems to solve? 2) how would the expense of that be justifiable? I think that waste of gov’t time and resources would dwarf the loss of a few seconds tweeting?
This person’s outrage and actions are inconsistent.
Lou, is that a joke? You see a comment you don’t like, get pissed of at something you don’t even know if it is wrong. And because of not knowing this, you have to find this persons real adress and phone number to call them up because the authorities have to check up if this person is on a break or not?.
Thank good that you are an SF author, because that is really out of this world.
Mr. Antonelli, if I may, a human being’s time is owned by that human being, not by any other entity. Aaron may rent out some of his life’s time in exchange for a wage, but it’s still time which belongs to him as a self-owning individual.
Are you seriously implying that his sending a tweet is going to be cause for or even just a portion of a partisan Congressional investigation? Or am I reading something into your words you did not intend?
Well, Antonelli has guaranteed I won’t spend any time on his fiction, this year or ever as long as behavior like that continues. My reading time matters more to me than that.
Let’s leave it to others to decide, we obviously don’t agree or get along.
I wasn’t doxxing Aaron, I was checking a mailing address. I didn’t realize I was so accurate. When the person who answered the phone said “He’s right here, if you want to talk to him,” I shouldn’t have said what I did, because it wasn’t anyone else’s business. But I was still raw from being insulted, and I shot off my mouth. I’m only human. I can lose my temper like anyone else.
Actually, I apologize for that. I hate it when I pop off. But like I said, you say certain things to people, you will get predictable reactions.
Anyone see the movie “Hancock”. The unexpurgated version?
Teddy sure does pick ’em.
Lou Antonelli: I wasn’t doxxing Aaron, I was checking a mailing address. I didn’t realize I was so accurate. When the person who answered the phone said “He’s right here, if you want to talk to him,” I shouldn’t have said what I did, because it wasn’t anyone else’s business. But I was still raw from being insulted, and I shot off my mouth. I’m only human. I can lose my temper like anyone else.
Actually, I apologize for that. I hate it when I pop off. But like I said, you say certain things to people, you will get predictable reactions.
Do you honestly not understand that what you did is psycho behavior?
Mike Glyer said:
Never underestimate the willingness of some folks to throw money at something on the grounds that it will piss off their perceived political enemies. Look how much money dropped out of the sky for the pizza parlor owners in Indiana.
I think the pitch was brilliant and right in the GG wheelhouse–hey you guys here’s something you can do that will make the SJWs grind the enamel off their teeth, and you can do it with your keyboard and your Paypal account! That’s the kind of activism that they love, based on their track record.
This is not a real apology. You can not apologize and then still try to justify your actions the very next sentence for your apology to have any weight whatsoever.
I didn’t justify losing my temper, I explained it. I didn’t say it was right, I said it happened.
I think the pitch was brilliant and right in the GG wheelhouse–hey you guys here’s something you can do that will make the SJWs grind the enamel off their teeth, and you can do it with your keyboard and your Paypal account! That’s the kind of activism that they love, based on their track record.
They funded the Honey Badgers’ foray into con attendance to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. And that was just so a small group of people could attend a con and disrupt a couple of panel discussions. The idea that several dozen might fork out $40 to mess with an award that has been around for sixty years seems almost pedestrian in comparison.
“Antonelli has guaranteed I won’t spend any time on his fiction, this year or ever.”
Me, too. This behavior is way over the line.
I didn’t justify losing my temper, I explained it. I didn’t say it was right, I said it happened.
And you wonder why you get called an asshole.
The #gurpgork/#sadpuppies quotes about Brianna Wu are gross.
Lou Antonelli: You’re on Twitter. Aaron’s on Twitter. Any response you felt compelled to make to his tweet should have been made there.
Calling his workplace and then emailing him at a work account is pretty clearly an attempt to intimidate him. Your rationalization that your real concern is that he might be misusing government work time is awfully convenient. You got mad, you wanted to hurt him, you found a vulnerability, you acted like a doxxer.
Not adorable. Not adorable at all.
“Bad as the Puppies are, they seem to be marginally smarter as a group than the GGers.”
Now I’m feeling all warm and fuzzy inside, because that sounds like a little bit of love! (Honestly–this is about the most hopeful statement I’ve heard in weeks.)
The magic trick going on here is to make you think this is about the edges of fandom. But that’s all spectacle, distraction. The real stuff is happening in the middle of the field, where no one is looking.
H/t @Mike for some great questions in this thread. You, Sir, are a master skeptic.
Mr. Antonelli: I can lose my temper like anyone else. And yet the overwhelming majority of people do not end up trying to get others in trouble at their place of employment. It doesn’t occur to them to do so. If it does occur to them, they immediately dismiss it as obviously inappropriate. It’s remarkably unusual behavior. Being angry is common; doing what you chose to do about it is not common at all. Surely you’ve noticed that? Or do you actually spend time with people for whom it’s regular behavior and haven’t noticed how unusual that whole community is?
Well, I did reply, but he also cut me off pretty fast.
Lou Antonelli: I didn’t justify losing my temper, I explained it. I didn’t say it was right, I said it happened.
Dude, if that’s what’s considered “predictable” behavior among you and your friends, I would be very afraid of ever being around any of you in person — and if you pulled the shit on me that you pulled on Aaron, I’d have a Protection Order out on you so fast it would make your head spin.
As a newspaper editor, I’ve had my job threatened dozens of times.
I have not seen Hancock. Any good?
Oh, and I once was actually beaten up and my office smashed.
Hampus –
There was a running gag that the one thing the protagonist wouldn’t take was being called an asshole.
By someone who’s job you’d just threatened?
Lou Antonelli: As a newspaper editor, I’ve had my job threatened dozens of times.
Translation: As I have had sociopaths threaten me, it is perfectly acceptable for me to do the same to others.
Lou Antonelli: Anyone see the movie “Hancock”. The unexpurgated version?
Did you honestly, seriously not understand that that movie depicted a sociopath? Sure, it was presented as a black comedy — but it was a black comedy featuring a sociopath.
I mean, I know that there are people walking amongst us who have something crucial missing in their psyches, who actually think this way. It’s just horrifying to encounter one in real life and see the utter lack of self-awareness.
No, he called me an asshole on twitter. THEN I popped my cork.