The Paw of Oberon 5/4

aka The Puppy In God’s Eye

The Geiger counter pours out a relentless beat as the fallout rains down. The glow in today’s roundup comes from Kameron Hurley, Jo Lindsay Walton, Martin Wisse, Mark Nelson, The Weasel King, Joe Sherry, George R.R. Martin, Vox Day, Jim Butcher, Larry Correia, Lou Antonelli, T. C. McCarthy, Michael Johnston, Alexandra Erin, John Scalzi, Myke Cole, Brad Torgersen, Dave Freer, William Reichard, Michael Z. Williamson and less easily identified others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Steve Moss and Laura Resnick.)

 

Kameron Hurley on Motherboard

“It’s About Ethics in Revolution” – May 4

Sorva took her seat on the other side of the table and waited. Both men could pass for Caucasian, as if that even bore mentioning, and sat in stuffed leather chairs. They wore extravagant codpieces that matched their suits, their members so cartoonishly large she could see the tips peeking up from the edge of the table. They both wore backwards caps.

It was the Director of Business Development, Marken, a lanky man with a sincere, pudgy face, who spoke first.

“Do you understand that when we choose the very best forward-looking brand messages each year for the Business Development Award ballot we open to our corporate writers, it must adhere to certain standards?”

 

Jo Lindsay Walton

“Quick Hugo thought”  – May 4

Some folk out there seem to be prevaricating between (a) No-Awarding the Puppies selections or (b) No-Awarding every Puppy-dominated category, since it would be totally unfair to give “The Day the World Turned Upside Down” a Hugo by default, and pretty unfair to give e.g. The Goblin Emperor a Hugo with reduced competition.

I’m prevaricating too, and I know exactly what would let me make up my mind: releasing the full nomination data. That way you could see who else could have been on the ballot. Then the procedure’s simple: you construct a virtual ballot from a Puppy-free world (the kind of Stalinist disappearing we SJWs lurve) and make your choice. If your selection from the virtual ballot is on the real ballot as well, you vote for them above No Award; otherwise you No Award the whole category.

But we don’t have the full nomination data, right?

 

Martin Wisse on Wis[s]e Words

“No Award All The Things” – May 4

No Award All the Things!

Sorry Thomas Olde Heuvelt, you may actually get your Hugo this year, but since you’re the only candidate there on merit I felt uneasy voting for you by default. Better luck next year.

 

Mark Nelson on Heroines of Fantasy

“An Ever Changing Landscape” – May 4

Who pays when the real world intrudes on our imaginary landscape? If we start turning against each other and fall to squabbling over increasingly empty honors, how does that make us look? The truth is SFF needs to grow up.  At times I have felt that our genre heading allowed us to adopt a mock superior tone; mostly as a response to being ignored by “real literature” and those who write criticism.  We reveled in being aberrant. We rallied around our awards and celebrated our words in spite of the roaring silence from the wider world. We were a club with giants as members. We were privy to secret knowledge with informed, inclusionary eye-winks. We were the wandering Jews relegated to pulp fiction status, respected by none other than those lucky, lucky few who accepted the words and understood the latent power of the language of ideas. I wonder if the worst thing to ever happen to the genre was its popular success.  The bigger “it” got, the more insistently came the calls for “it” to be taken seriously.  And when film tech caught up with story tech, a marriage of commercial explosion formed. “Money, money changes everything…”  And at present the affect has not been altogether positive. We were once the progressives. Now we look like idiots fighting over cheesecake while the Titanic’s deck begins to tilt. Wow. We have all but rendered the Hugo award useless. WorldCon cannot avoid the taint of controversy. The folks putting on the con deserve better.

 

The Weasel King

“theweaselking.livejournal.com/4673543” – May 4

The Locus Awards: A collection of skiffy fic untainted by ballot-stuffing assholes. Maybe not all to your taste, but reliably “dickface asslimousines did not shit on this ballot and then demand that you to eat it with a smile” Bonus sick burn: Connie Willis, awesome author[1] and perennial Hugo presenter, told the Hugos to fuck off because of the penisnose MRA anuscacti who hijacked their nomination process, and she’s presenting the Locus Awards.

 

Joe Sherry on Adventures in Reading

“Books Read: April 2015” – May 4

Discovery of the Month: If not for all of the fracas over the Hugo Awards, I may never have read Eric Flint’s 1632, which was a fairly enjoyable romp taking a group of twentieth century Americans back into seventeenth century Europe. I already have the next book, Ring of Fire, coming in from the library.

 

George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog

“LOCUS Nominations Announced” – May 4

While this year, admittedly, may be different due to the influence of the slate campaigns, over most of the past couple of decades the Locus Poll has traditionally had significantly more participants than the Hugo nomination process. Looking over the Locus list, one cannot help but think that this is probably what the Hugo ballot would have looked like, if the Puppies had not decided to game the system this year. Is it a better list or a worse one? Opinions may differ. The proof is in the reading.

 

Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Three centuries strong” – May 4

As Supreme Dark Lord of the Evil Legion of Evil, we are pleased to declare that Malwyn, Whore-Mistress of the Spiked Six-Whip, has reported that she has completed the initial Branding of the Minions. She has now gone to take a well-deserved vacation in one of the more secluded lava pits in our Realm of Deepest Shadow, where she will no doubt be nursing her aching wrists and filing for overtime as well as worker’s compensation….

“How many of us are there?”

335 as of this morning.

 

 

Larry Correia on Monster Hunter Nation

“Arthur Chu sucks at everything but Jeopardy” – May 4

Many regulars may remember Social Justice Warrior and Salon author Arthur Chu as the dipshit who declared Brad Torgersen’s 20 year interracial marriage and his biracial children as “shields” to hide Brad’s racism. He is one of the morons who blamed the Sad Puppies’ success on GamerGate.

Well, after a day of futile harassment, his team of idiots couldn’t even call in a bomb threat correctly.

 

T. C. McCarthy on YouTube

“Local 16, Bizarre Tweets, and Bomb Threats: #GamerGate an #SadPuppies Supporters Meet in DC #GGinDC” – May 4

 

Lou Antonelli on This Way To Texas

Reach out and insult somebody – May 4

The official announcement of the nominations for the 2015 Hugo awards was made on April 4, so its been a month since then, Gee, time flies when you’re having fun.

One thing I’ve learned in the past month is that, thanks to the wonders of the latest technology and the internet, someone you don’t know and have never met, who may live thousands of miles away, can call you an “asshole” in public.

 

Michael Johnston in a comment on Whatever – May 4

Rachel Swirsky said: “Please, please, please, please stop with the “put down” rhetoric about the puppies, and the “you know what has to be done about rabid animals” and “take the dog out behind the barn.”

It’s vicious and horrible. The puppies and how they’ve acted toward me and others sucks. But good lord, let’s keep threats of violence, however unserious, out of it. Please.”

This, in particular, illustrates the difference between the puppies and their perceived enemies. In every “liberal” space I’m following, any threats or overly abusive rhetoric is met with calls for civility. In the SP/RP spaces, the rhetoric is largely about how we deserve horrible things done to us, which are often described in detail–and the moderators not only allow it, but indulge in it themselves.

 

Alexandra Erin on Blue Author Is About To Write

“What! Your Sad Puppies Are Evolving” – May 4

This is a significant shift from Day for two reasons.

The first is that it signals what he thinks is most likely to happen. He rode high on the sweeping fantasy vision of himself as a Roman general leading a slavering horde of berserkers across the frozen river to assault the well-fortified position of his enemies (note to self: suggest history lessons for Vox), but he has just enough self-awareness to know that his strategy of lying and repeating the lie could come back and bite him if he tried to claim a sweeping victory where none existed, so he’s starting the spin now.

The second is that—as mentioned before—the endgame he now endorses is something the Sad Puppies have claimed to have wanted as their ultimate endgame.

 

Season of the Red Wolf

“A Pox on both their Houses: Sad Puppies, Vox Day, Social Justice Warriors, the Hugos circus and the irrelevancy of a dying genre” – May 4

As with Torgersen, Correia can’t be bothered with addressing what Vox Day actually writes about blacks (the problem there – in the linked blog entry – is not the silly and ridiculous debate itself that Vox Day quotes from, it’s Vox Day’s own commentary on African-Americans in response to that debate that is eyebrow raising) and women alone. Of course as soon as one does acknowledged what Vox Day actually writes about blacks and women (never mind gays), then the only way to defend those indefensible prejudices, is by sinking into prejudice itself. Correia, like Torgersen, thus avoids that trap (defending the actual indefensible remarks/comments of Vox Day’s) by not ever quoting Vox Day’s most egregious commentary in this regard, and getting to grips with what he actually says. Correia, as with Torgersen, just doesn’t go anywhere near what Vox Day actually writes about blacks, women and gays for that matter. The easier to whitewash why Vox Day is considered persona non grata, namely for very good reasons. Yes it’s all so hypocritical, given the genre Left’s multiple prejudices (including of course their anti-Semitism that doesn’t bother anybody really, least of all genre Jewry) but this also misses the point.

 

John Scalzi on Whatever

“I’d Rather Like Men Than To Be a Sad Puppy” – May 4

 

Myke Cole

“An open letter to Chief Warrant Officer Brad R. Torgersen” – May 4

Chief War­rant Officer Torgersen,

As you are no doubt aware, The Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell Repeal Act of 2010 removed bar­riers to homo­sexual mem­bers in the armed ser­vices, who may now serve openly and as equals.

You have long held the posi­tion that homo­sex­u­ality is immoral behavior, and most recently made den­i­grating jokes regarding the ori­en­ta­tion aimed at Mr. John Scalzi.

Your moral posi­tions are your own, and I will not ques­tion them. How­ever, I will remind you that you are a mil­i­tary officer and charged with the lead­er­ship of men and women of *all* walks of life, reli­gions, creeds, sexual ori­en­ta­tions, socio-cultural back­grounds and eth­nic­i­ties. Every single one of these people has the right to believe that you will faith­fully dis­charge your duties as an officer, not spend their lives care­lessly, not make them endure unnec­es­sary hard­ship, that you will care for them with com­pas­sion and ded­i­ca­tion. On or off duty, you are *always* an officer.

Your repeated state­ments of your thoughts on homo­sex­u­ality in public forums create the very rea­son­able appre­hen­sion among homo­sexual mem­bers of the ser­vice that you hold them in con­tempt and will not lead them to the utmost of your ability, will not look to their needs and con­cerns, and may place them at undue risk. That this is surely not your inten­tion is irrelevant.

Fur­ther, your pub­li­cally den­i­grating state­ments regarding Mr. Scalzi are base, undig­ni­fied and show ques­tion­able judg­ment. You, Chief War­rant Officer Torg­ersen, are an officer, but no gen­tleman. Your posi­tions are incon­sis­tent with the values of the United States mil­i­tary, and its com­mit­ment to being a ser­vice that belongs to ALL Americans.

Our nation deserves better.

Respect­fully,

Myke Cole

 

Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Never retreat, never apologize” – May 4

Does no one listen or learn? Never, EVER apologize to SJWs! Case in point: “The apology was worse than the ini­tial attempted slur — it rein­forced the fact that Torg­ersen thinks calling someone gay is a slur.” I repeat. NEVER APOLOGIZE TO SJWs. They will see it as fear, take the apology, and use it as a club with which to beat you. Never back down to them, never retreat, never apologize.Notice that this was all posted AFTER Torgersen apologized to Scalzi.

 

Brad R. Torgersen

“Keyboard rage” – May 4

Today, I am told Myke Cole is on about me. Since Myke doesn’t really know me from Adam, I have to shrug and take whatever he said with a grain of salt. But then, most people who’ve been on about me lately — because of Sad Puppies 3 — don’t know me, either. I may take it personally if a friend, a family member, or a respected senior I admire, has hard words for me. But total strangers spewing hard words?

Well, total strangers may have an opportunity to reconsider at a later point. Especially if they meet me face-to-face.

 

Cirsova

“Hugo Awards Best Fan Writer Category” – May 4

So, in this post, I will try to define what “Fan Writer” means and use it to justify my support of Jeffro Johnson in this year’s Best Fan Writer category.

On the face of it, a Fan Writer is just that. A fan who writes. They are a fan of something in the realm of fantasy and science fiction, and they write about fantasy and science fiction from the perspective of someone who is a fan to an audience of fellow or potential fans. A good fanwriter is like an evangelical minister of fantasy and science fiction; they give sermons to the believers to help them better understand the texts they know and love and they take the good word to those who have not heard it. You’ve been missing something in your life, and you don’t quite know what it is, but I think I can help you; here’s this story by Lord Dunsany!

 

Dave Freer on Mad Genius Club

“Research, Hard-SF, stats and passing small elephants” – May 4

John Scalzi kindly provided us via his friend Jason Sanford a near text-book perfect example of GIGO. “Recently author John Ringo (in a Facebook post previously available to the public but since made private) asserted that every science fiction house has seen a continuous drop in sales since the 1970s — with the exception of Baen (his publisher), which has only seen an increase across the board. This argument was refuted by author Jason Sanford, who mined through the last couple of years of bestseller lists (Locus lists specifically, which generate data by polling SF/F specialty bookstores) and noted that out of 25 available bestselling slots across several formats in every monthly edition of Locus magazine, Baen captures either one or none of the slots every month — therefore the argument that Baen is at the top of the sales heap is not borne out by the actual, verifiable bestseller data.” As I said: first you need to understand what you’re sampling. For example, if you set up a pollster at a Democratic convention, at 10 pm, in a site just between the bar and the entry to the Men’s urinals… even if he asks every person passing him on the way in, you’re not going to get a very good analysis of what Americans think of a subject. Or what women think of the subject. What you will get is middling bad sample of what mildly pissed male Democratic Party conference attendees think. Middling bad, because many of the passers will be hurry to go and pass some water first. It’s vital to understand what you’re sampling – or what you’re not. Let’s just deconstruct the one above. In theory Sanford was attempting to statistically prove John Ringo’s assertion wrong. What he proved was nothing of the kind (Ringo may be right or wrong, but Sanford failed completely). What he proved was that on the Locus bestseller list, (the equivalent of the Democratic Party convention and the route between the bar and the gentleman’s convenience) that Baen was not popular. That is verifiable. The rest is wishful thinking, which may be true or false. Firstly ‘Bestseller’ does not equal sales numbers. A long tail – which Baen does demonstrably have, can outsell ‘bestseller’ and five solid sellers outsell one bestseller and four duds. Secondly, independent bookstores who self-select by accepting polling, selected by a pollster (Locus) with a well-established bias are not remotely representative of book sales in general, or representative of the choices book buyers have. Thirdly, it is perfectly possible to ‘capture’ no bestseller slots at all, even in a worthwhile sample (which Locus polling isn’t) and STILL be the one house that is actually growing. It depends what you’re growing from – which of course this does not measure and cannot.

Short of actual book sales numbers, and data on advances – which we’ll never see, staffing is probably the best clue. I know several authors at other houses whose editors have left, and quite a lot of other staff at publishers who’ve been let go. Over the last few years, the number of signatures on my Baen Christmas card have gone up year on year.

 

William Reichard

“Silent Punning (aka ‘The Hijacker’s Guide to the Galaxy’”) – May 4

Having run through quite a few sci-fi themed puns regarding the Hugo Award debacle, the community is apparently moving on to Westerns (e.g., “A Fistful of Puppies“).

I have to say, this is my favorite part of online warfare–when the rest of the community acknowledges the madness of it all and just starts having fun again. Because there should be some kind of silver lining in this.

 

Sad Puppy 1911 Holster Right Hand

Sad Puppy 1911 Holster Right Hand

syberious _ny on “Ebay: Sad Puppy 1911 Holster Right Hand”

Here’s the scoop…I designed this holster (and its companion holster in Left Hand configuration) because of the whole Sad Puppy / Hugo Award kerfuffle. My original thought was to perhaps raffle them off to raise money for a veterans organization. But, online raffles in the state of Tennessee (where I live and have my business) are tightly regulated, and it would have cost more to run a raffle than what the raffle could potentially bring in.

So, I’m listing these here on FleaBay, with the proceeds going directly to help a friend who is a veteran, who has run into some heavy financial problems with squatters in her rental home. On her GoFundMe page, she’s committed to only using the cash that she needs, and anything extra will be donated to a veterans organization of her choosing.

679 thoughts on “The Paw of Oberon 5/4

  1. Interesting to see the Puppies whining about the occasional metaphor from a non-Puppy bystander–that follows directly from the name(s) they chose for themselves, by the way–but being perfectly okay with Tom Kratman, Puppy Hugo Nominee, threatening to find people who disagree with him on the internet IRL with a gun. This happened in the comments on Brad Torgersen’s blog: it’s not like it’s something that they can’t be expected to notice.

    Sure, let’s not allow perfectly understandable annoyance and the obvious easy metaphor about rabid dogs to seduce us into forgetting that the Puppies are real human beings. But let’s also remember the larger picture of what is going on.

    That said, I interpreted BT’s comment as “if they met me IRL they’d like me; I’m a nice person” rather than “step outside and say that!” It seems at least possible that he meant it that way.

    What he’s overlooking is that it’s quite possible to like someone and still say “Brad, you went over the line there; you might be leading gay soldiers someday–you might be leading some *now*–and everyone concerned needs them to be able to trust that you consider them the equals of any other soldier.” Which is basically what Myke said.

    Because it’s not calling Scalzi gay that’s the insult–it’s telling gay people “hey, gay is the worst thing you can be; even Scalzi doesn’t deserve to be called that.”

  2. “and yet by your continued presence here and elsewhere … it is glaringly obvious to us that you DO CARE … very much.”

    I didn’t say I don’t care about anything. But I’m not here because I care about the Hugos or your opinion. I’m here so that neutral parties can clearly see the difference between me and you, between Rabid Puppies and the SJWs. I’m here to help people choose their side.

    The comparison is not quite as flattering to you as you probably think it is. For every five neutrals exposed, I estimate that three join us, one joins you, and one stays neutral. Sure, these run-ins tend to inflame those already on your side, but that’s a price worth paying.

  3. “I interpreted BT’s comment as “if they met me IRL they’d like me; I’m a nice person” rather than “step outside and say that!””

    That was correct. Brad is not only very nice, he likes people and he wants to be liked. I suspect the vicious SJW response to him has been a complete shock to him.

    No surprise to me, of course. I know what nasty snakes you are.

  4. Beale doesn’t do so well outside of the confines of his blog where he can’t control the message, and then have his sycophants, excuse me his Dread Ilk, jump in to parrot what he says. Of course it’s all the fault of those nasty SJWs, right?!

  5. “I didn’t say I don’t care about anything. But I’m not here because I care about the Hugos or your opinion. I’m here so that neutral parties can clearly see the difference between me and you, between Rabid Puppies and the SJWs. I’m here to help people choose their side.

    The comparison is not quite as flattering to you as you probably think it is. For every five neutrals exposed, I estimate that three join us, one joins you, and one stays neutral. Sure, these run-ins tend to inflame those already on your side, but that’s a price worth paying.”

    well I suspect that you are engaging in a lot of wishful thinking here … count me as one of the “neutrals” who chose not to be on “your side”.

    Since you seem to have nothing to do but engage with nobodys on the internet and seem perfectly willing to do so … do you mind telling me (us) what it is you have in mind for the future of SFF? Once you get your revenge and all by destroying an institution you despise? And on a related note .. how is this different than what ISIS is doing in the Middle East when they destroy artistic/archaeological/cultural artifacts?

  6. “This happened in the comments on Brad Torgersen’s blog: it’s not like it’s something that they can’t be expected to notice.”

    Kratman did it here, too, within the past week. By having this discussion, we’re running the risk of him showing up again to let us know that his fists are his official complaint department.

  7. ““I interpreted BT’s comment as “if they met me IRL they’d like me; I’m a nice person” rather than “step outside and say that!””

    That was correct. Brad is not only very nice, he likes people and he wants to be liked. I suspect the vicious SJW response to him has been a complete shock to him.”

    uh no … as a male military veteran who’s participated in his fair share of pissing contests … I am quite certain that Brad meant exactly what it sounded like … your attempts to turn it into something else are hilarious.

  8. And of course, we have the spectacle of Larry Correia blaming a bomb threat on Arthur Chu over Chu’s polite e-mail to people hosting a gamergate gathering.

    I hardly know where to go with that. Apparently you can’t point out to bystanders how gamergate behaves without being accused of authoring every misfortune that happens around gamergate from that point forward.

  9. @clif

    Oh, hmmm. Well, I have to admit I pretty much completely lack the background that you and he share. I will take your reading into account.

  10. “Yes, it does, for the obvious reason that I am not a utilitarian, an atheist, or a science fetishist. Read the entire exchange with PZ and that is perfectly clear. But since you need it clarified, I do neither share those assumptions nor advocate those conclusions. If I did, I would join DAESH.”

    thank you for that clarification. Would have been nice if you could have simply SAID that without the atheist/utilitarian/DAESH/etc references/putdowns. And since the Taliban is obviously not atheist. utilitarian or science fetishists (whatever the hell THAT is); why should it be obvious?

  11. Alex – ‘Oh boy! Matt Y has decided we need to get back into the same tired argument! I’m sure it’ll be just as riveting as every other time it has happened.’

    Not at all, I was actually pointing out the double standard in the accusations made by some Puppies. Guilt by association is one of the claims they level at anything regardless of merit, I just found it amusing that when the shoe is on the other foot it’s ‘collateral damage’.

  12. I responded by demonstrating that the Taliban’s behavior is entirely rational, it is merely the consequence of different objectives and ruthlessness in pursuing them.

    But they’re not utilitarians, they’re theocrats. And even if they were utilitarians, they’re not natalists, so a utilititarian argument where “utility” is based on your own white supremacy based natalist views wouldn’t be relevant when applied to the taliban.

    And then the Taliban denounced the shooting of Malala as “excessive” because it was giving them such bad PR.

    So you were defending the taliban using logic and ideas they don’t hold but you do, and doing it for actions even they don’t want to defend, and doing it for the sole end of “being pedantic”.

    And then you have that long history of holding misogynistic natalist views that make you object to the idea of women working, voting or being educated. Which mean that it’s far more rational to assume that what you were defending were your own views against educating women (given that the essay is built upon assumptions you hold but the taliban don’t), and you saw Malala’s defense for the idea of educating women as something that you objected to and wanted to try to write a rebuttal for.

    And you ended the essay on talking about how it was rational to shoot Malala in the face. Without, I should note, you having even tried to make a case that shooting children in the face was the most “utilitarian” method of stopping women from being educated; no confiscating their books, no imprisoning their teachers, no destroying the school itself, just straight to “don’t like women learning? Shoot them in the face”, which is odd if you were truly intending to defend the precise action of shooting children in the face as “rational”.

    Which is really odd if your purpose was to “merely” make a case that shooting someone in the face is rational. As you are now claiming.

  13. “Since you seem to have nothing to do but engage with nobodys on the internet and seem perfectly willing to do so … do you mind telling me (us) what it is you have in mind for the future of SFF?”

    SF is going to continue to fracture and expand as most of the conventional SF houses go under and print becomes an afterthought for collectors. Electronic distribution will become 90 percent+ of SF publishing and half of all sales will be through “the internet of things” rather than through dedicated distribution sites like Amazon. Bookstores are dead.

    In other words, you’ll buy your HALO tie-in novel from Microsoft on your Xbox phone and your Guardians of the Galaxy graphic novel from the Marvel shop on the Netflix store. Average prices will drop from 27.99 for hardcovers to 2.99 for ebooks; the combination of lower prices and direct distribution is what kills the publishing houses that have too much overhead to survive the new distribution model.

    “Once you get your revenge and all by destroying an institution you despise?”

    I don’t despise the institution nor am I trying to destroy it. It’s just in the way at the moment. I am going to disrupt the publishing houses, but even that’s just a side effect of the very thing I told SFWA about two years ago. It will be live well before the end of the year and the model conservatively predicts we’ll be selling 10k SF books per day within two years.

    What I’m doing will ultimately be to the benefit of the broader SF-reading community. It’s more than a little ironic that most of the traditional SF writing community is so unwilling to even try to understand the very near future. You may not take me seriously, but senior executives at the Big Five publishing houses with whom I’ve spoken do.

    See, here’s the thing. I’m just the first. This isn’t my first major disruption. I may have blown the first 3D chip for games, but that didn’t prevent Jensen Huang getting it right 12 months later. Even if I get it wrong again, what I’m talking about is absolutely going to happen. The era of selling SF ebooks for 9.99 through publishers on Amazon has a time limit of four years, tops.

  14. Theodore Beale is such an amazing sci-fi author and futurist that he believe his fantasy gladiator game will be selling 10k books per day within 2 years.

    Of course, he made similar claims two years ago so…

  15. alexvdl,

    > Theodore Beale is such an amazing sci-fi author and futurist that he believe his fantasy gladiator game will be selling 10k books per day within 2 years.

    I somewhat strongly suspect that he meant that his online publishing house will be selling 10k books per day within 2 years, not his game.

  16. “Which is really odd if your purpose was to “merely” make a case that shooting someone in the face is rational. As you are now claiming.”

    All your babbling is beside the point. PZ Myers claimed the Taliban’s various actions were irrational, even incoherent. I merely proved that his claim was false by his own lights. That’s the sort of thing I do to my self-appointed critics on a regular basis. Some people like to call names, I prefer to demonstrate the intellectual ineptitude of my opponents.

    “[PZ’s] response to my scientific answer only confirms Wilson’s original case against him, in which he claimed that PZ doesn’t act or think in a scientific manner. And while Wilson is correct and PZ truly doesn’t think like a scientist in any way, shape, or form, it’s actually worse than that because it’s clear that he also doesn’t understand what he reads. I not only provided an answer to his question that can be empirically and objectively analyzed, it was a scientific answer that was entirely in keeping with PZ’s own previously expressed statements on the subject.”

    None of that had anything whatsoever to do with my own opinions about anything, except for my low opinion of PZ’s intellect. Nor am I even remotely surprised that there are SJWs dumb enough to try to use that exchange as a basis to falsely claim that I support the Taliban. Look at how desperately you want to believe it.

  17. “Theodore Beale is such an amazing sci-fi author and futurist that he believe his fantasy gladiator game will be selling 10k books per day within 2 years.”

    Who said anything about doing it through OUR game? See, it soon became obvious that there were bigger and better delivery vehicles out there. Sure, we’ll do that too, when we get around to it.

    You scoffers are simply contemptible. You claim to love science fiction, and yet you shit on the people who are doing genuinely new things and genuinely moving technology forward.

    And you LOVE it when we fail. There is nothing you like better than to see someone try to do something and fail, because it justifies your own fear of failure. But some of us just keep getting up and trying, again and again. And then, when we succeed, you tell us that we got lucky….

    Scoff all you like. Mock me all you like. That’s not going to change anything.

  18. Scoff all you like. Mock me all you like. That’s not going to change anything.

    You forgot to say “BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!”

  19. “Scoff all you like. Mock me all you like. That’s not going to change anything.”

    Showing you for the overly long running joke you are destroys any chance of you and your ideas being taken seriously by sane people.

    To be fair, your own words give everyone a headstart there.

  20. Well, to be honest, I love when Beale fails. And as that is a continuous happening, it ever brings me joy. Even his comments are pure fails!

  21. “Who said anything about doing it through OUR game? See, it soon became obvious that there were bigger and better delivery vehicles out there. Sure, we’ll do that too, when we get around to it.”

    You did. You made it clear that selling digital goods on the First Sword marketplace was going to be the future. That you were going to change the way the world sold digital goods! http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/06/announcing-first-sword.html

    I can’t wait until you release for Blackberry! It’s really going to make my November of 2013!

    Wait… is that even going to be part of the Kickstarter?!

  22. VD – ‘The era of selling SF ebooks for 9.99 through publishers on Amazon has a time limit of four years, tops’

    Good. Kindle is a great device and distribution system but I’d like there to be more alternatives in the market and BN are complacent to follow the leader with the Nook. Would love for something to shake up the grip Amazon has on the increasing ePub market.

  23. Oh man. reading the comments makes things even better.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/06/announcing-first-sword.html#c5907754612191050284

    “Thanks, but just to be clear, I meant it in the “last straw on the camel’s back” way, this is not going to somehow replace conventional publishing. It’s just going to carve off perhaps 10 percent from the genre publishers in 2-3 years, and since they’re already struggling, that’s more than they can afford.”

    Who knew that Beale has already carved off perhaps 10 percent since he made that post two years ago?!

  24. Of course, Mamatas is another bystander; he hasn’t been chosen to represent non-Puppies, the way Puppies chose Kratman.

    So inconvenient, having your choices on record like that. Then having to try to bind “everybody but Puppies” into one group.

  25. Seth: Sometimes I find myself wishing that someone would come up with one of those Chrome extensions that would add a MUAHAHAHA to all of Day’s posts.

    But then I read them and it just naturally seems to occur.

  26. “You made it clear that selling digital goods on the First Sword marketplace was going to be the future. That you were going to change the way the world sold digital goods!”

    It is. We are. We just happened to have the opportunity to launch it in a marketplace that is considerably larger. I find it vastly amusing that you think having the opportunity to leap forward about 2 years is somehow indicative of failure.

    “His musical career was one failure the world would be better off without.”

    Four Billboard Club Chart hits, beating Prince for a Minnesota Music Award, two movie soundtracks, and doing the soundtrack for Activision, SSI, and Bungie games is failure? You have high standards.

    SJWs always lie.

  27. “Would love for something to shake up the grip Amazon has on the increasing ePub market.”

    It will. Unless Amazon buys us, of course.

  28. “It is. We are. We just happened to have the opportunity to launch it in a marketplace that is considerably larger. I find it vastly amusing that you think having the opportunity to leap forward about 2 years is somehow indicative of failure.”

    Oh, I’m sure a project that’s been vaporware a couple of years, and you’re now planning to run a kickstarter to get the funds to complete it will disrupt the world any day now.

    Promises and failed promises are all you have to offer. 🙂

  29. XS @ 7:33 am-

    I hate techno music. I have never listened to VD’s music as I assume it sucks as much as all techno does. For the record (another pun!), my favorite band is Led Zeppelin.

    However, and despite my personal taste, four Top 40 songs can’t reasonably be considered a failure, can it?

  30. @Steve Moss

    I’m not talking about his ability to sell his crap. I’m talking about his failure to produce non-awful music.

    Terry Goodkind sold tons, but I’d still consider him a failure as a compelling fantasy writer.

  31. VD – ‘It will. Unless Amazon buys us, of course’

    Unfortunately that will likely be the case with any that legitimately threaten their grip on ePublishing. Unless Google gets to them first, the Play bookstore is the worst but I imagine they’d love a piece of that pie as well.

  32. Matt Y –

    “Unfortunately that will likely be the case with any that legitimately threaten…”

    Well, glad to know that we don’t have to worry about it then.

  33. “I’m not talking about his ability to sell his crap. I’m talking about his failure to produce non-awful music. Terry Goodkind sold tons, but I’d still consider him a failure as a compelling fantasy writer.”

    SJWs always lie. They simply invent custom definitions whenever the actual one doesn’t fit. I’m not fond of Terry Goodkind’s books myself, but if you are calling him a failure, you’re either very, very stupid or an SJW.

    “you’re now planning to run a kickstarter to get the funds to complete it will disrupt the world any day now.”

    Different project, different team, different company. The Bible certainly had individuals like you pegged. As did Aristotle. You have a mind set like concrete; there is no information that can change it.

  34. “SJWs always lie. They simply invent custom definitions whenever the actual one doesn’t fit. I’m not fond of Terry Goodkind’s books myself, but if you are calling him a failure, you’re either very, very stupid or an SJW.”

    Or I have good taste.

    Goodkind is a terrible writer. He fails at writing good fantasy. Hence failure.

    His terrible philosophies tend to not help his writing at all. Hey, kind of like you!

  35. “PZ Myers claimed the Taliban’s various actions were irrational, even incoherent. I merely proved that his claim was false by his own lights.”

    It was worth VD’s time to try and defend the Taliban in order to score points against PZ Myers. During the attempt, he misconstrued the Taliban’s method of reasoning.

  36. Ahhh, ad hominem fallacy.

    Man, talking to you is like getting a walkthrough in all of the major argumentation fallacies. The other day we had “no true Scotsman” and now…

    You made the claim you will disrupt the digital marketplace. You haven’t. If you do, you can demand an admission that I was wrong, and I will provide one.

    But you’re long on promises, short on results, and I’m confident that ain’t going to change.

  37. In general, any male who responds in an online debate with something along the lines of Say It To My Face is making a physical challenge. If Brad wanted to say in person he’s much nicer, he could have said that. Many people say things like “In person, over a beer, we wouldn’t be so angry with one another” when they mean that they’re nicer in person.* If Brad’s a teetotaler, he could recommend a little ice cream instead.

    As far as RH and the suicide, you can always tell who is very concerned about someone’s suicidal ideations—they don’t use them as a bloody shirt to wave around when discussing other topics. I’m friendly with the person who experienced those ideations in question on social media. Pretty amazing feat for someone who mocked a suicide attempt…which of course never happened.

    *Incidentally, I’ve heard nothing but nice things about Brad as regards his offline behavior, including him putting himself out to care for a sick colleague during one of the Scientology awards. I also think Brad’s comment was homophobic and in poor taste, but it was also such a mild jab that I’m amazed it somehow required multiple blog posts and dozens of tweets from third parties.

  38. Commercial success, artistic failure. Got it.

    One is an objectively verifiable measure of success or failure, the other purely a manner of opinion.

    I dislike techno. I think it sucks as art and would not willingly buy it. On the other hand, I would never call it a failure. Mostly as there are plenty of people who disagree with me, as judged by its commercial success.

  39. People talking about “techno” in the 2010s reminds me of people talking about “acid rock” in the 1980s.

  40. I happen to disagree with XS regarding Terry Goodkind as a writer.

    Somehow I will have to go on, knowing that someone else’s opinion is different than mine. It’s rough, but somehow I think I’ll manage.

  41. @Cat: —“Of course, Mamatas is another bystander; he hasn’t been chosen to represent non-Puppies, the way Puppies chose Kratman.”—

    So, in your opinion, recommending a story by an author means choosing that author to represent you?

  42. Alex – ‘Well, glad to know that we don’t have to worry about it then’

    Which is why I didn’t specify what that contender might be 🙂

    As the recent Hatchett/Amazon rivalry showed we’re still in an awkward transitional period for books/eBooks. It’s fascinating watching it evolve so the conversation is interesting to me. The rest of his conversation it just stuff I’ve already disagreed with him on and neither of us are going to move an inch on.

  43. @clif
    I’m one of the (former) neutrals referenced by yourself and Mr. Beale. I’ve been following the fun-loving antics of various breeds of puppies, and the response, for a couple months now; i came into this through Larry Correia’s books, of which I own all; bought Redshirts and Old Man’s War too, back in the day. I read a lot of SF, probably have patronized most of the authors i see on both sides of this divide.

    I gotta tell you, your ‘side’ has not covered itself with glory. Good example, until Craig (2) on May 5, 2015 at 4:57 am correctly interpreted Mr. Beale’s actual words (kudos by the way, Craig) on the topic of acid attacks, shooting schoolgirls etc, i have seen not a one of you actually admit to understanding what he actually said.

    I read that particular post, had no problem interpreting it, moved on. Yet the same obviously-wrong interpretation is repeated ad nauseaum, on this and related blogs, usually in the context of ‘proving’ what a horrible human being Mr. Beale is.

    i can interpret this in one of two ways. First interpretation, the collective reading comprehension of this group, including the professional authors, is so poor as to make me wonder how you ever completed let alone sold a book.

    Second interpretation, you have deliberately chosen to mis-interpret the statements made by Mr. Beale, to forward your own agenda.

    Since, as mentioned previously,I have bought books by many of the authors found here, I can assume you are literate and capable of comprehending fairly straight-forward prose.

    That leaves only the second interpretation. And thus the reason I am a FORMER neutral.

  44. Four Billboard Club Chart hits, beating Prince for a Minnesota Music Award, two movie soundtracks, and doing the soundtrack for Activision, SSI, and Bungie games is failure?

    Interesting. You were a member of the band from 1992-1994. Much of what you claim credit for here happened in 1995 or later.

  45. Matt Y,

    Ahh, something we CAN agree on. I”m very interested to see what the book marketplace looks like a decade from now. I think that anyone who believes that dead tree is going away or will be relegated to “collectors” only is fooling themselves.

    Books aren’t like LPs or VHS where you need a device to play them. Anyone (who can read the language the book is in) can pick up a random book and immediately invest in it.

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