aka Slate Expectations
Today’s lightness comes from Katherine Tomlinson, amalythia, David Gerrold, Brad R. Torgersen, Cat Valente, Voss Foster, Andrew Knighton, Nick Mamatas, William Reichard, P. Llewellyn James, Cheryl Morgan, Bonnie McDaniel, Lisa J. Goldstein, Eemeli Aro, Kate Paulk, Pat Patterson, Tom Knighton, Dan Ammon, John Scalzi and Alexandra Erin. A couple of these are older items that seem to have been missed by earlier roundups. (Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editors of the day Kary English and Daniel P. Dern.)
Katherine Tomlinson on Kattomic Energy
“Hullabaloo over the Hugos” – May 3
When I first heard about the gaming of the system, it was disappointing but I spent decades in L.A. where gaming the system at awards time is a fine art. (Remember how many people were shocked, SHOCKED that Pia Zadora got a Golden Globe Award?)
But I grew up reading science fiction and fantasy. I write it now. And the stories I write and the characters I create reflect the world I live in. Complicated. Diverse. And women do more than open hailing frequencies and get rescued from towers.
The idea that there are writers out there who are trying to hijack two entire genres of writing to advance their political agenda is just not tolerable. I’m not a member of the WSFS but even so, I have skin in the game. Because I love these genres. And it is a delight to discover writers whose work inspires me. And entertains me. Call me a “pissypants” if you like (see above Slate article) but what that cabal of writers did will NEVER be okay for me. And it wouldn’t be okay if they’d had a liberal, left-leaning agenda either.
Hugo awards are the work of those who claim to know the truth and painting highly editorialized views as "news."
— Markov Kern (@sealion_ebooks) May 7, 2015
amalythia on Medium
“I Do Not Wish to Offend – Short Story” – May 6
[amalythia has written a story in response to Kameron Hurley’s short story “It’s About Ethics in Revolution”.]
There is a large bell in the center of town that used to ring every morning. But then the Minister’s daughter complained that the noise triggered her, by waking her up from her sleep. It doesn’t ring anymore. Instead we’re awoken by a phone call from our manager. My roommate sleeps right through it. I heard her mumble something about not coming in. Again. Ever since our last manager seemed to disappear overnight, when she threatened to fire her for incompetence, no one dares question her. I wear my tag: 0678. I think I had a name at some point, perhaps the one inscribed on the pendant my mother left for me. They don’t allow names anymore, as certain names might offend some people. I wouldn’t want to offend them.
David Gerrold on Facebook – May 7
… Second, after we reaffirm our commitment to inclusiveness, we need to consider whether or not the Hugo nominating rules need to be adjusted. I believe that the administrators of the award should have the power to disqualify slate-ballots, but the mechanisms for this might be controversial. (It should be possible to do a computer analysis of the balloting. If 25 or more ballots come in with identical nominees in every category, and they match a publicized slate…that could be considered compelling evidence.) Other proposals have been offered as well, and I expect there to be some vigorous discussion…..
But the point I’m working toward is a difficult one — it’s a conversation that we tend to shy away from. But any functioning community, does have the right to protect itself from disruptive agencies. Groups can and do disinvite those who spoil the party.
The SFWA expelled Vox Day for his unprofessional behavior. Fandom as a community, and the Worldcon as an institution, should have the same power to invite someone to the egress. Other conventions have taken steps to protect themselves from toxic and disruptive individuals — and based on the back-and-forth conversations I’ve seen, and as unpleasant a discussion as this will be, maybe it’s time to have a discussion about the mechanisms for shutting down someone who has publicly declared his intention to destroy the awards.
That’s the point. We cannot talk about healing while the knife is still being twisted in the wound. I can’t speak for the sad puppies, I can’t tell them what to do — but I would hope that they would recognize that being perceived as standing next to a man who wants to destroy the system is not the best place to stand. Despite what’s being said in their own echo chambers, the larger narrative isn’t a good one for the puppies.
Brad R. Torgersen in a comment to David Gerrold – May 7
Thing is, no matter how much “daylight” Larry and I put between ourselves and Vox Day, there are people on “your” side, David, who insist that it’s all the same thing. That there is no difference at all.
For five weeks, Larry and myself have had to hear it (from “your” side) about how awful we are.
We invited everyone to the democracy, and we have been awfulized for it. The SP3 voters have been awfulized. Awfulization has been the fad sport of the season. By people who pat themselves on the back for being “inclusive.”
As long as Fandom (caps f) insists on doing “sniff tests” about voters and fans (small f) being the “wrong kind” of people, there won’t be healing. Definitely not. This is the wound Fandom (caps f) has inflicted on itself, after decades of quiet exclusivity. Of telling authors and artists and fans (small f) they’re not the expected, or correct, or sufficiently “fannish” kind of people that Fandom (caps f) deems worthy.
This is why so many fans and professionals *avoid* Worldcon. WSFS. The Hugos. Etc. Because the “sniff test” is very glaring, and if the engineers of “inclusive” exclusivity (they know who they are) succeed in making it so that the poll tax (membership fee) is exorbitant, or that only attending members get to vote on the Hugo, or that the democracy is scuttled altogether (judges “your” side picks, always make sure “your” side gets the answers it wants) then Worldcon gets that much smaller, that much more exclusive, that much less relevant.
Vox Day is a side show. A red herring. Don’t water that weed.
What is Worldcon doing to prove that it is, in fact, WORLDCON? Because any given Comic Con, Dragoncon, et al., beats the pants off Worldcon, in terms of audience youth, audience enthusiasm, and connection to the broader SF/F realm.
To paraphrase a line from one of my favorite films, this isn’t the field you built in your garage anymore.
You can’t arrest Vox Day. You can’t turn off his blog. You can’t touch him. So why fixate on him endlessly?
If Worldcon begins to boast memberships on the order of 30,000 to 55,000 then Vox Day and his influence cease to exist. There is no bloc that can hope to survive those numbers.
So, go big.
Or stay small, and shutter the windows and doors.
One of those choices has a future. The other does not.
Cat Valente in a comment on File 770 – May 7
Tintinaus: Regardless of what Dave Freer thinks of me–a writer I barely know who misquotes me at every turn and who, when we met, replied monosyllabically to my friendly overtures while looking like he wanted nothing more than for me to leave, only to go online four years later and claim to know a whole lot about my thoughts and feelings–it makes me sad (AS SAD AS A PUPPY) to hear my SF work once again dismissed as “gussied up” fantasy.
Essentially nothing SFnal I write gets classified as SF. It can take place on other planets, concern itself with science and technology, even have ray guns, and it somehow always gets dismissed with a wave of the hand and an assurance that it’s “just” fantasy. I can think of a lot of science fiction authors with much less hard science than I’ve used in my stories who are never questioned as to which side of the genre they write on. I am genuinely curious whether it’s because I use that pretty language, that I’ve written more fantasy than SF–or maybe my science really is that bad. Or maybe it’s that “hard” SF gets written by men, and the whole conversation is incredibly gendered.
Thing is, I’ve never claimed to write hard SF. I didn’t want to write SF at all for a long time because I was convinced the science fiction community did not want me and would not accept me–funny how that’s still kind of true. I can write about programming and physics till I’m blue in the face but it’ll never be SF for some reason.
And what I said, what I have said over and over at conventions, is that you don’t need a background in math and science to write SF. That’s what research is for. I research like a bear and I would think anyone who’s read my books would laugh at the idea that I think everyone should be ignorant and uneducated–I mostly get called a pretentious, elitist asshole, not a champion of dumbing down. I was trying, as I always do, to assure young writers that they are allowed to write SF even if they don’t have a degree in physics, because I don’t know if people realize how intimidating it can be to even attempt science fiction with a lot of people yelling about getting off their lawn if you’ve never interned for NASA. Or are a dude.
I do not have a science background. I research and I research hard because it’s more difficult for me than folklore and myth, which I’ve studied all my life. But I maintain it’s absurd to say SF can only be written by scientists–absurd and elitist and exclusionary. And honestly, show me the diamond-hard science in the Puppy slate. Show me the PhD peeking out from behind the dust jacket. The kind of SF they advocate, with the buxom ray guns and the strapping spaceships, is NOT hard SF. It’s adventure fiction “gussied up” as science fiction. And that’s fine, but it has no more real science than my gussied up fantasy.
Voss Foster on Demon Hunting & Tenth Dimensional Physics
“I Will Walk With You” – May 6
Now, I’m not a shodan in Aikido (in 4th grade, I had a white belt in karate…), and I don’t have the same presence as Vonda McIntyre. I also hate wearing those badge ribbons. One or two is my max. But I’m 5’10”, and close to 300 pounds (and dropping, yay me!), and I generally look intimidating. But even if I didn’t, like she said, it’s a presence, it’s someone by your side. And I will do that, and happily so. If you feel like you need someone, whatever side of the issue you fall on, I will walk with you.
Andrew Knighton
“Change, Reaction and Pain – Coping With Cultural Backlash” – April 29
I love that the world is changing. I love the variety that brings and the novelty it creates within our culture, even as the dark fingers of uncertainty send tremors of fear through my body.
Unfortunately, fear of change is currently rearing its big, ugly head all over geek culture.
The most prominent and hideous example of this is the treatment of feminists in computer gaming. There are some great designers and critics out there critiquing the domination of gaming by white, straight, male gamers and characters, and the way this excludes others. This has triggered a huge backlash, in which people have been called the vilest names and even had their lives threatened for expressing their opinions on a medium they love.
Then there’s the fuss, for the second year in a row, around science fiction and fantasy’s Hugo awards. I think there are a lot of problems with the Hugos, but they’re certainly high profile within the core of sf+f. This year, a reactionary group have managed to dominate the nominations with a slate of conservative, white, male authors. It’s a shame, but it is at least getting people engaged with the awards, and may favour the pro-diversity arguments in the long run.
Nick Mamatas in a comment on Ask.fm – May 7
Screw real politics, what about the hugo’s? Torgersen write anymore slash or did Correia just cry for like the twentieth time about how life is unfair and everyone was so mean to him at worldcon?
Brad made a mildly homophobic remark regarding Scalzi, which half the planet had to blog about because it was just soooo awful and apparently now the US will fall to ISIS because how can Brad’s soldiers trust him now?
Anyway, under Sharia law, launching politicized slates for the Hugos is barred, so I guess the problem has solved itself!
William Reichard
“Cry ethics and let slip the puppies of war” – May 7
In which I am called a liar, though perhaps not in a way that’s literally, dialectically true but is actually more true because it lets me see the truth, which is that I am lying. Maybe. Or something.
William Reichard
“The day I got mentioned on Vox Day’s blog” – May 7
His Voxness mentions me in what may be some kind of compliment, though it may also translate as “you are fairly amusing…for a slave boy with inherently limited mental capacities and basic worth.” But hey, us Rhetoricals take what we can get, right? I know from long experience that my flame-retardant suit is far too flimsy to sustain me in any battle with the mighty forces arrayed off my port bow and preparing to decloak at any sign of hostile intent, so my only hope is to position myself as a jester, dancing merrily on the sidelines and dodging the occasional peach pit. So, hopefully, everyone’s still laughing. Ergo…where was I again?
P. Llewellyn James on The Refuge
“Hugo : ‘Skin Game’ the Best Novel?” – May 6
There are five books nominated for Best Novel for the 2105 Hugo awards. The winner will be chosen by a few thousand votes from among those who have registered as a member of WorldCon. But what does the wider audience of readers think of the books? Here are some Amazon statistics as of today May 6th. Voting closes on July 31st.
I’m using two measures – the overall sales rank, and my own invented ‘approval rating’, or calculation of positive to negative reviews ((5star + 4star)/(2star + 1star))….
Predictions
The overwhelming favorite on the basis of its approval rating is Skin Game, which is also the second-best seller in Kindle format.
The best-selling book in Kindle format is Lines of Departure, and it has the second-best approval rating.
Cheryl Morgan
“A Little Awards News” – May 7
Also yesterday the Arthur C. Clarke Award continued its journey away from science fiction and towards literary respectability. This year the award went to a beautifully written piece of sentimental twaddle aimed at the sort of pretentious hipsters who think that suffering an apocalypse means being unable to have iPhones, Sunday supplements and skinny flat lattes. It is a very long time since a book without a trans character made me as viscerally angry as Station 11 did. However, I don’t appear to have sent any death threats to the Clarke jury. Nor have I vowed to destroy the award, or even decided that it is “broken”. In fact I rather suspect that the Clarke will do better next year without any help from me. Clearly I am doing this social media thing all wrong.
Then again, I am confident that the winner of this year’s Hugos will be a far better science fiction novel than the winner of the Clarke.
Adult Onset Atheist
“SNARL: Flow” – May 6
This is a review of “Flow” by Arlan Andrews, Sr. (Analog, November 2014)
Overall this was an engaging novella. This is such a grand departure from the other four nominees that I will have awarded this story five whole stars (out of 10) by the time I have done reviewing it. I am sure it would have not scored as well if the competition was not so utterly dreadful.
Bonnie McDaniel on Red Headed Femme
“The Hugo project: ‘Totaled’” – April 30
The Hugo Project: “Totaled”
(Note: this is the newest in a series of posts wherein I review as many of the 2015 Hugo nominees as I can, and explain why I will or will not vote for them.) Hot damn. I finally stumbled upon a decent story. Actually, this story is pretty good, even if its premise is downright terrifying.
Lisa J. Goldstein on theinferior4
“The Hugo Ballot, Part 4: Short Stories” – May 6
“On a Spiritual Plain” by Lou Antonelli takes place on a planet where “the living and the spirits of the dead coexist side by side” for the sentient race there, the Ymilans. One day a human, Joe McDonald, dies on Ymilas, and then manifests in spirit form. The human chaplain learns from the Ymilan chief cleric that Joe’s soul has to make a pilgrimage to the north pole so it can “move on,” and so the three of them — the chaplain, the Ymilan, and Joe’s ghost — set off from the Terran base near the equator.
I would have liked more description of the Ymilans — all we’re told about them is that they’re “large.” I would have also liked more description of the trek across half the planet, but we see only electrical storms, and, towards the end, “diminishing hills.” I would have liked some sense of ceremony or ritual when the soul dissipates, but here Antonelli seems to have anticipated readers like me, because he has the Ymilan cleric say, “I’m sorry, I forget your people put a great deal of stock in theater and rituals, which is to be expected in such an immature race.” Okay, then.
Eemeli Aro in a comment on Charles Stross’ Antipope – April 5
[Comments about Worldcon site selection seemed tangential when I started doing these roundups, but after T.C. McCarthy’s tweet and the ensuing discussion here, I am going to link to this so I know where to find the quote in the future.]
Eemeli Aro: This is what I posted about Castalia House on a mailing list earlier today (for context, I’m chairing the Helsinki in 2017 Worldcon bid and somewhat involved in both Finnish and Worldcon fandoms):
I’d like to note that Castalia House has practically no connection with Finnish sf fandom, and they have never had a presence at any Finnish con. The only communication with the proprietor (Markku Koponen) that I’ve been a party to is a post by him to a Finnish sf mailing list last April, where he states (translating), “As must be clear to most, Castalia House is ideologically opposed to the majority of practically all fannish groups in this country.”
So in brief, no, the Finns that are members of Sasquan on account of having participated in the 2015 site selection vote or that have purchased a membership since then to participate in said process this year are unlikely to be aligned with the supporters of works published by Castalia House.
We do, on the other hand, have a thriving small press and short story scene, and a rather unique fanzine tradition, all of which is well integrated with Finnish fandom at large. Of course that’s mostly hidden from American eyes, as it tends to produce content in Finnish. If you’re interested in such, though, we do have a few things coming out this spring and summer that will be in English.
Kate Paulk on Mad Genius Club
“A Mad Genius Goes To RavenCon – Part the Final” – May 7
With a mere hour remaining ere her final panel of the day, Kate the Impaler did rest for a time, whereupon a member of that most secret guild of SMOF did approach her and divulge that the campaign to end the sorrow of young canines was indeed sending waves of shock through the grand halls of fandom, and how in response some sought to wrest that jewel of fandom, the Convention of World, from any locale where the friends of sorrowful young canines might gather, and take it to a far distant place that in isolation they might gather in force and thereby bring about changes to the Rules of Hugo, thus condemning the young canines to eternal sorrow. (For those not inclined to translate: read up on the contenders for the 2017 Worldcon, pay your $40 and vote. You’ll be a supporting member for 2017 before the price rise kicks in, and you get to choose where it is. Vote for the best candidate. Ignore that I like Washington, DC as a venue. I only like it because it’s the only one I could drive to).
The warrior maiden did assure the SMOF that voting would indeed be encouraged, and promised that no secrets would be divulged, for yea, as the house of fandom is divided, so too is the secret guild of SMOF.
Schlock Magazine
“Pop Culture Destruction – Forgive Me, For I Have Failed To Destroy Pop Culture” – May 7
If you’ve been following any goings on in the world of genre/science fiction literature you’ve surely heard of last month’s controversy surrounding the Hugo Awards, which got hijacked by literal fascists in the name of promoting what amounts to little more than right wing propaganda. And that’s before internet scum collective GamerGate got involved. In any case, writer Philip Sandifer has this excellent roundup of the sorry debacle on his blog, to which I can only add that, at this point, the Hugos can only fixed with the application of a bullet to the head.
Pat Patterson on Papa Pat Rambles
“Laura Mixon Gets It Right” – May 4
Again: if you have not read Laura’s report, do so. I do not know whether she will win the Hugo in the “Best Fan Writer” or not; she is competing against four other respected fan writers, three of whom I consider to be personal friends. I plan to vote for Nunaya Bidness, but if I were on the slate against her, I would consider that to be an honor-by-association.
Tom Knighton
“Woman wants to ban men at literary readings, a fisking” – May 6
I’m sorry, but you can’t claim on one hand that women are self-censoring from raising their hands, and then say it’s not their fault that they’re not raising their hands. Women aren’t punished for asking questions as adults.
She claims that the moderators don’t notice them, but you know who moderators are far more likely to notice? People raising their damn hands, for one! Yes, I know they skipped over Livingston, and while she wasn’t their target, they really couldn’t know that, but how prevalent is the situation? Honestly, maybe it’s just personal. If these are the same folks, maybe they just don’t like her for some reason?
Dan Ammon on The Shield
”Why and How The Hugo Awards Should Be” – April 18
But that doesn’t matter. What matters here are the fact that sci-fi books aren’t being judged on their merit, but their politics. So here’s how I propose to fix that:
A) THE NEUTRAL BENIGN COMMITTEE
What I propose is an apolitical committee that votes on which books, comics, scripts, short stories, etc, should receive nominations to the awards, based on their merit. How would this come into existence? Simply by finding the most apathetic people alive, have the Hugo voters, lefty and righty alike, deliberate and nominate them, then subject these nominees to a lie detector test to make sure they are actually apolitical, and not being paid off by either side.
I LIKE MY COFFEE LIKE I LIKE MY MEN — wait, I don't like men.
(throws out coffee)
— John Scalzi (@scalzi) May 6, 2015
Alexandra Erin on Blue Author Is About To Write
“Sad Puppies Review Books: GREEN EGGS AND HAM” – May 7
Sadly much like 1984 this book ends with the protagonist giving in before the onslaught. He does love Big Brother. He does like green eggs and ham. He will eat them with the fox. In a perverse mockery of holy communion, he will eat them with the goat (like Pan or Baphomet, or other guises worn by Satan). This is preparing our children to have not just their food supplies controlled but also their minds and very souls.
A child indoctrinated by this book is not only trained to give in to the illegitimate application of government authority but is also primed to use these techniques to convince others. Unless your children are strong-willed and well-trained to recognize these tricks and traps I recommend keeping this book the hell away from them.
If you have raised your children right as I have done with mine then your best bet is to take a hands-on approach. I read this book to my children, taking care to explain the subtle SJW traps that were on every page. I am pleased to report that they showed no interest in it afterwards.
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A Heartbreaking Puppy of Staggering Sadness
A Sadness Upon the Puppies
If on a winter’s night a sad puppy
“My God, it’s full of puppies!”
@Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little: “He does it continually through Agent to the Stars. I didn’t notice it until I was reading it aloud, but when I did, boy did I notice it.”
Looking back at the first few pages of OMW, I see what you mean. Even so, I think it works for Redshirts. It may be unintentional, and it’s something that can grate in other contexts, but I think it adds to the atmosphere in this instance.
“Maybe the Rabid Puppy slate didn’t fare better than the Sad Puppy slate because the Sad Puppies never considered their slate to be anything other than a typical recommendation list. ”
Torgersen called it a slate and put no more than five entries in any category. Clearly there was intent that bloc voting help it succeed to achieve their political goals.
Repent. Puppy! Said the Ticktockfan.
Alexvdl
That made me laugh. Undoubtedly there are some SP that believe that (especially when they think it people are voting for a book because it says something ‘important’) but I think *most* are simply of the sincere belief that their taste is the majority one and the books that are winning the Hugo appeal only to a small selection of SF readers. I haven’t heard John Wright (who I believe to be a SP founder and I know to be a fan of Gene Wolfe) discuss this subject but surely he knows that an author like Gene Wolfe would _never_ be nominated, much less win, if books were being selected for a Hugo purely on the basis of general popularity. So I think that there is more nuance to how the SP believe the Hugo process should work but it wouldn’t surprise me if they haven’t really thought through all of the ramifications of radically popularizing the Hugo voting process. Then again, I sadly don’t expect Wolfe to ever win a Hugo.
Thinking back on the year, had I voted for the Hugo, I would have probably nominated:
The Magician’s Land by Lev Grossman
The Book of Strange New Things by Michel Faber
Broken Monsters by Lauren Beukes
Maplecroft by Cherie Priest
Prince of Fools by Mark Lawrence
Of those books, I could see maybe Faber’s novel being liked by the SP or perhaps Priest’s Maplecroft. Thinking it over, more likely Maplecroft than Strange New Things. At any rate I don’t _think_ that the SP want to shut anyone in particular out — not even the dread Scalzi. I think that just want to ensure that a Wright or a Correia can get on the list and have a real chance of winning with their personal politics and personality not being a significant factor.
Hard to follow what has and has not been suggested or done, but I’m going to go crazy with:
The Puppy Zone
The Puppy Limits
Land of the Puppies
Planet of the Puppies
Beneath the Planet of the Puppies
Escape from the Planet of the Puppies
Conquest of the Planet of the Jaws
Battle for the Planet of the Puppies
Rise of the Planet of the Puppies
Dawn of the Planet of the Puppies
Puppies in Space
Puppy Gallery
The Puppy Stalker
The Puppy Strangler
Trilogy of Puppies
Silent Puppies
Puppies Running
The Puppy Conflict
Rosemary’s Puppy
The Puppies from Brazil
Puppy the Barbarian
Puppy the Destroyer
Puppy Dawn
Back to the Puppies
Godzillla Versus Puppy
The Puppy in the Woods
Bag of Puppies
Paws
The Puppy Who Walked through Walls
Puppies: A Comedy of Justice
Puppies of Dune
In the Mouth of Puppies
Village of the Puppies
Ghosts of Puppies
RoboPuppy
Puppies: The Final Frontier
TekPuppy
Puppy Insurrection
Puppy, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
Darrell,
I really need to reread Magician’s and finish out the series.
I enjoyed Maplecraft by Priest, but I probably won’t pick up the sequel.
I enjoyed the snot out of Prince of Fools, but the Author has done some stuff that has put him firmly in my “don’t read again” pile. A shame, I think.
Looking back at the list of things that I read in 2014, I don’t see too many standing out at things that would go well on the Hugo List. I mean, other than Lines of Departure. 😉
I think my favorite book I read last year was “A Good and Useful Heart” by Aric Davis. Though Scott Sigler’s latest GFL novel, Myke Cole’s Gemini Cell, and the final book in S.J. Kincaid’s Insignia trilogy are definitely up there.
So far this year, Brett’s Skull Throne, Kloos Angles of Attack, and Maberry’s latest Joe Ledger Novel have all impressed me a lot. In non SFF, I enjoyed Dirty Rush by Taylor Bell and Trust Me, I’m Lying by Ryan Holiday.
Darrell – ‘I think that just want to ensure that a Wright or a Correia can get on the list and have a real chance of winning with their personal politics and personality not being a significant factor’
It appears to me that they’ve made complaining about their politics into a significant factor for increasing their odds of winning instead of the other way around.
I’ve still gotta read Broken Monsters and Maplecroft. How’s Maplecroft compared to her past work?
xdpaul: there isn’t only slot for 2017. It’s what’s called a preferential ballot. You put your first choice first, your second or ‘backup’ choice on the next line.
To some of the others, please remember that bids have absolutely no control over what other people do. Aardvarks will go with DC because it’s hot in the summer, or with Helsinki because of the hot baths . . . Worse, “Vote against DC because [for some reason] aardvarks want them!” “Vote against Helsinki because it’s the home of some ringleaders!” I mean, seriously? A bid bids because they think they’ll hold the best Worldcon. End of situation.
I’m on the fringes of the DC bid (not speaking for them, implying anything, etc) but I’d be just as annoyed if Helsinki was still being hit with this. Even without a bid at all I’d be annoyed.
So ignore them. Just shrug off the Puppy Power and vote for whatever you think is best. You are voting, aren’t you?
“I think that just want to ensure that a Wright or a Correia can get on the list and have a real chance of winning with their personal politics and personality not being a significant factor.”
If they didn’t want politics to be a factor in Hugo voting, it was a poor choice for their three-year campaign to have so many appeals to conservatives to support the campaign so they could put liberals in their place.
Your theory requires them to be too stupid to know they were creating a hyper-politicized atmosphere in SF/F. They wanted the fight they’re in to be a culture war.
The Steerspuppy
The Outskirter’s Puppy
The Lost Steerspuppy
The Language of Puppy
Rabid the Puppy Was, Oh! Oh! Oh!
The Hugos Considered as a Downhill Puppy Race
@Will “Invasion of the Hugo Snatchers?”
Gold!
I’m beginning to think we’re going to need a catalog of the Puppy headlines so we don’t keep suggesting variations that have already been used.
@Rev Bob – re: movie script
Tuomas has since admitted not actually reading the book, so he can’t answer that. He was just harvesting unattributed Amazon reviews.
Since Gene Wolfe came up in the other thread . . .
Puppy of the Torturer
Claw of the Puppy
Flaming Sword of the Puppygator
Puppy in the Mist
Puppy of Arete
The Fifth Head of Cerberus (as a Puppy)
The Puppy in a Forest
There Are Puppy Doors
The Island of Doctor Puppy and Other Stories and Other Stories
“I think that just want to ensure that a Wright or a Correia can get on the list and have a real chance of winning with their personal politics and personality not being a significant factor.”
In other words, they want human beings to stop being human beings.
Shhyeah right. Good luck with that!
It’s up there with Gamergate trying to insist that games journalists are not allowed to have friends or lovers in the games industry, because preserving the “objectivity” of their game reviews is supposed to be worth sacrificing their social circle, which is largely comprised of other people in the industry, because people go into that industry for the love of it, not for the pay or the benefits or the working conditions or the prestige. It makes no damned sense. And I think they know it.
Really, the issue here is that the Puppies and the Gaters hate the fact that people don’t like them because of their statements and behaviors. They resist (hysterically) the idea of restraining themselves in either word or deed (because self-restraint is really HARD for some people, I guess) so as not to tick people off, but they know that ticking people off means they won’t be liked, and one of the side effects of not being liked is that people tend not to vote for you for awards, or hire you to work on video games. Therefore, they try to frantically insist that there’s something WRONG about including “How much do I like this person?” as a factor when decided whether or not to present them with a fan award or to make them a job offer in the games industry, when of course there’s nothing wrong with either of those at all.
Like it or not, your ability to get along with other people and not be an ass is a critical part of how people judge you and your work. If you want to preserve your right to be an ass toward other people without having it cost you, you had better be so damned brilliant at what you do that it absolutely swamps the personal loathing people feel for you. (I hypothesize that this is why “House MD” was so successful — everyone wants to be brilliant enough that they can treat everyone around them like total dirt and still get to keep their job and their friendships. Wouldn’t that be great?!) Harlan Ellison only got away with being Harlan Ellison so long because his talent was up to the task. Correia and Torgersen aren’t even close. (And Vox? ROFLMAO!)
“It’s getting really tedious to keep reading Puppy fellow travellers getting confused between (what we’re calling) slates and what are recommendations as if it doesn’t get covered in nearly every Puppy thread.”
Because your definition is arbitrary and not fixed. Note that snowcrashe’s definition works just fine for turning puppies into a non-slate. I’m tired of you guys making stuff up that makes you feel good. And yes, I’m barely reading these anymore. Wading through the self-righteous mire is tedious.
I’ll note that for all of the howling about puppies being inconsistent we were first blamed for not reading. Shocker…we read.
Just end the prattle and move onto the votes. We’re already gearing up for next year.
May Tree: very interesting.
I think you see that reflective in a lot of republican/tea party/fox news rhetoric. Things like:
“just give me a yes or no answer”
or
“it’s black and white, yes or no”
or
let’s sum up a whole bunch of stuff we don’t like, are afraid of, can’t comprehend, give them a catchy name and just refer to everything we’re against by using that name
NO, not all republicans fall into that kind of thinking, but many of the loudest, and many of the candidates, and almost all of the pundits, do.
It’s “anti-intellectualism” at its basest. All issues have nuance, nothing is black and white, but lets condemn nuance, call it “the gray area” and then pillory anyone who is “incapable of making a decision” because they refuse to contemplate black or white.
Silver definitely hit the nail on the head. Or got the screw driver into the slot, or is cooking with gas, or something.
Sorry GK, unless you have a working time machine, there are still a few months of this to go, though the focus is shifting more toward opinions of the nominated works themselves.
I’ve read all the available short stories so far and to be honest, I’m feeling let down because I haven’t yet spotted any rocketships, ray guns, explosions & kick-ass laser battles. It’s been mostly talk-talk. Care to share you opinions of those stories?
“Just end the prattle and move onto the votes. We’re already gearing up for next year.”
If your “gearing up” isn’t “reading books and noting which you think are the best ones”, you’re definitely the problem, not the solution.
Because you’re putting “winning the award” ahead of “finding and rewarding good SF” — which is sort of like trying to win the Superbowl by poisoning the other teams in the league so that you’re the only team left standing. Sure — you might win, at the cost of rendering the win meaningless.
Steven,
What’s if it’s like trying to win the Superbowl by inflating your footballs differently than the other teams footballs?
@Soon Lee-
You can find Turncoat here: http://www.steverzasa.com
It does have spaceships and lasers. It even starts off well, but the author forgot to put in any characters. I know at least one of the puppies said he really likes it.
@Soon Lee,
Turncoat.
@Steven,
Funny, I read. We’ve said this over and over again. I’ve even _described here_ why I voted for things or didn’t in the last Hugo. Hell, I’d even be willing to wager that if we did a random sampling with test questions the puppies would win in being able to report on their votes accurately.
But do keep setting up those straw men. It makes for amusing pruning.
C. S. Lewis:
The Puppy, the Feminist SJW, and the Wardrobe full of Hugo Awards
Puppy Caspian
The Voyage of the Puppy Treader
The Silver Puppy
The Puppy and His Boy
The Magician’s Puppy
The Last Puppy-Dog-Fight
@Max,
“but the author forgot to put in any characters”
Tex and Alpha? The protagonist and antagonist?
@GK
I think that was more aimed at people like Tuomas, who was here a bit ago posting negative reviews of a whole bunch of Hugo winners that he has not read.
Or Ringo, who recently wrote a review slagging Redshirts, in which he proudly admitted to never having read it.
Darrell on May 8, 2015 at 1:00 pm said:
“I absolutely agree that it was inviting disaster for SP3 to set up their recommendation list in the manner that they did but since nothing like this had ever happened before I think it is at least legitimately conceivable that they didn’t think what did happen would actually occur. Could they have been more gracious after the debacle? Absolutely. Could they have said that this wasn’t their objective and that they would take measures to stop it from happening next year? Yes, and I think it speaks poorly of any of them to not have said so.
But again, you have to realize that many/most SP believe that there has already been someone with their thumb on the scale whether it be conspiracy, personal popularity of certain authors, voter apathy, or a voter demographic that simply does not align with their tastes in SFF. That is why the SP keep making references to Amazon or Times Bestseller lists. They are trying to say that their taste in SFF is the _majority_ taste and that they are being unfairly shut out.”
I am willing to believe that the Sad Puppies did not expect such a catastrophic victory.
If they truly thought that there was in reality a secret cabal of ballot-fixers, then they presumably truly thought that the Hugo ballots for the last several decades were the result of that ballot fixing, rather than a natural and organic result of basically honest nominations by people who cared enough to nominate.
Under the circumstances, I can believe that they may have truly thought that all they would do was slant the ballot a little towards themselves with their little conspiracy, rather than tear through everyone else and load the ballot with all of their own choices because they were throwing all of their weight against a nonexistent cabal.
They couldn’t have better proven that there never was such a conspiracy if they had set out to do so.
No one had a thumb on the scale, so when the puppies tried to add theirs they overpowered the process and stuck it into everyone’s eye.
@GK re: Turncoat
You mean Taren and Alpha. Taren barely counts, while Alpha is apparently only there to be evil for no apparent reason. It is a cardboard cutout of a bad guy. The author makes no attempt to explain why Alpha is so emotional and so full of hatred for humans.
It was unfortunate, because I thought in the beginning of the story that it might be something beside Skin Game that deserved a nomination. 🙁
Turncoat was really irritating. Started something like this:
“I am very cool and tough.
I have this cool and tough dress which is very cool and tough. Then instead of a very dangerous thing, I have this very cool and dangerous thing. Instead of another dangerous thing, I have two sets of dangerous things, some more dangerous things and then two other dangerous things.”
And that is where I grew tired of the story.
With regards to the way Scalzi writes the “X said, Y said” dialogue, I saw him at a reading at the Merrill Collection, and he indicated that he does it deliberately since it reads better, although clearly sounds awkward when read aloud.
A slate is *still* a list of candidates with a common political platform, even if every time I mention it Puppies go on to complain about the number of candidates on a list, or whether a slate is not a slate if it doesn’t lead to 99.99% bloc voting compliance.
“Your theory requires them to be too stupid to know they were creating a hyper-politicized atmosphere in SF/F. ”
Your presume a hyper-politicized atmosphere didn’t exist before SP1….
@alexvdl: “What’s if it’s like trying to win the Superbowl by inflating your footballs differently than the other teams footballs?”
We can argue details of the metaphors. 🙂 My point, however, is that if what you’re seeking to do is prevent the other “team” from taking the field (by bloc voting — which at least one Puppy explicitly called for) or by some means outside the game — which was the implication of “gearing up for next year” — then your victory isn’t about how well you played the game — it’s about preventing other people from playing.
@StolenNameofAFineAuthor:
“Funny, I read” followed by: “But do keep setting up those straw men. It makes for amusing pruning.”
Do please demonstrate you can read. I said *if* your “gearing up” was something other than “reading and looking for the best…”. If all you’re doing to “gear up” for next year’s Hugos is reading SF, then fine, and we’re on the same page, and there was no call for you to protest.
If you’re doing something else, then the rest kicks in, and then it’s not a strawman.
So, do tell, what *do* you mean by “gearing up”? (Quick clue: If you can’t tell us because it would give something away, you’re back in the “winning is more important than the purpose of the award” category.)
Steven, I agree with you. I just saw the oppurtunity to mock the Patriots.
@Peace:
The problem with your scenario is… that’s pretty much how SP2 played out.
SP2 asserted that there was a conspiracy, rallied the troops to Get Larry A Hugo. Here’s that slate (curiously no longer tagged “Sad Puppies” – I wonder why?), and here’s his reaction to its success on the final ballot:
SP2 disproved the “secret cabal” theory; check the last two lines quoted above. If that was really their motivation, SP3 would never have happened. Of course, SP2’s motivation was really something different:
Emphasis mine, both there and in this part of the next paragraph:
Yeah, tell me again how it’s about Recognizing Good Stuff…
@alexvdl “Steven, I agree with you. I just saw the oppurtunity to mock the Patriots.”
So, should we give people deflated Hugos? The rocket drooping down to the side 😉
Oh, I forgot to give the source for the “what SP2 was about” quotes in my last message. Here it is.
Matt Y
I liked Maplecroft quite a bit more than Boneshaker so it’s one where I’ll be buying the upcoming sequel. I’ve also read some of Priest’s short fiction and liked it enough to Maplecroft. These days I read more ‘mystery’ novels (think Lawrence Block, Dorothy B. Hughes, James Lee Burke, Elmore Leonard, etc) than SF so I *try* to avoid series SF and save the series for Fantasy picks. This is the reason I’ve read The Algebraist by Iain M. Banks but not any of the Culture novels. Obviously this plan does not always work out for me.
@Darrell “but not any of the Culture novels. ”
You’re missing out. The Culture novels are a “series” in the sense that…2 of them share one character, and one of them is made deeper by knowing the events of another (IIRC — there may be a few tighter integrations I’m forgetting, but I don’t think so.). They’re set thousands of years apart (and that scarcely matters_, and none of them truly rely on any of the others. (The closest, I think, is _Surface Detail_, but I cannot reveal why.)
@Chad I would really like to read “Rosemary’s Puppy.”
@Maximillian Thanks!
Spot By Holly Hollander
Alexvdl
I’ll give “A Good and Useful Heart” a try. I currently read much more in the mystery genre than I do SFF, though that may be changing, so I’m always on the lookout for a new good author. I do have a tendency to troll through some of the older novelists like Jim Thompson, Charles Willford, Dorothy B. Hughes (who I can not recommend highly enough–especially her tour de force, In a Lonely Place), etc. so unless someone makes a big splash (like the overrated Dennis Lehane) I can quite easily miss them.
“Of couuuurse you don’t. You’ve been “do not caring” all through this.”
I not only don’t care, I have no idea what the issues are. I didn’t even bother reading through the emails.
“In other words, the problem with the Puppies and other conspiracy theorists is that they are incredibly lazy thinkers who are uncomfortable with complicated situations, so they vastly over-simplify everything.”
There are conspiracies. We have conclusive proof of at least two within Worldcon. For crying out loud, I have John Scalzi’s personal site traffic statistics dating back to 2008. Your side tries, but they’re not as good. We’ve been observing a persistent cracking attempt at the Castalia House server for several months now.
“It is obvious from the puppies I have talked to that they have a hard time conceiving that other people have different tastes in literature.”
SJWs always lie.
The Puppy-Logical Congress?
Yeah, The Culture novels are more a shared universe thing, not unlike the Discworld.
I still think Player of Games is one of the best ‘big’ concept SF novels I’ve read.
“SJWs always lie.”
Puppies never provide evidence.
Rev. Bob:
Here also where Correia admits that trolling was one big reason for the SP2 slate:
“Not to mention that one of my stated goals was to demonstrate that SJWs would have a massive freak out if somebody with the wrong politics got on. So on the slate it went. I nominated Vox Day because Satan didn’t have any eligible works that period.“
http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/14/george-r-r-martin-responds/
About diversity or quality? Pffft.
“We’ve been observing a persistent cracking attempt at the Castalia House server for several months now.”
I work in Network Security. “persistent cracking attempts” are the background noise of the internet. If you’ve got a public IP address, and you handle the security for it, you’ll see at least daily “low hanging fruit” type attacks.
The more posts I read by “Vox Day”, the more I expect to find him extolling the virtues of Judge Wapner, Hanes underwear from Cincinnati and his virtues as an excellent driver.
“I’m an excellent driver”, “SJWs always lie”, “Ten minutes to Wapner. We’re definitely locked in this box with no TV”.