What TOR Boycott?

Tor Books queue at SDCC Thursday. Photo by James Bacon.

Tor Books queue at SDCC Thursday. Photo by James Bacon.

By James Bacon: I went to Comic Con for a couple of days and had a fabulous time. The volunteers and staff run a great con, there were 120,000 people there and it surely felt busy, and I really enjoyed it.

Books are very well represented here, to my surprise, Hachette, Penguin and Macmillan amongst other publishers are all present in strength, as are dealers selling prose fiction.

TOR books have a really smart stand in a great location, and both times I managed to go by, they had long queues of people, eager, keen and EXCITED!!! Here anyhow, no one has a notion about the boycott at all.

Many people who I spoke to, have heard about the Hugo situation and have distilled it neatly into succinct and straightforward understandings of what has happened. People I spoke to, couldn’t even name those specifically involved, or mention the Puppies at all. There are colourful variations as to what people perceive, but generally the sentiment amongst those who did know, was that a negative act has occurred this year. The Hugos themselves are held in high regard, they have permeated the memories of many, probably from book covers, and indeed, I met a previous graphic story nominee who was very proud to have been one.

I returned to File 770 to see what I had missed, and laughed at the earnestness with which the TOR boycott is spoken of, because I had come from a place where to the hundreds and thousands of science fiction fans who pick up promotional material or queue at the TOR stand, the boycott is not only irrelevant but it is unnoticed and unknown.

Tor Books queue at SDCC Friday. Photo by James Bacon.

Tor Books queue at SDCC Friday. Photo by James Bacon.

78 thoughts on “What TOR Boycott?

  1. …because I had come from a place where to the hundreds and thousands of science fiction fans who pick up promotional material or queue at the TOR stand, the boycott is not only irrelevant but it is unnoticed and unknown.

    but but but everyone *I* know is boycotting TOR! I mean, except for books by Card. Or Sanderson. Or GRRM. Or the latest Expanse novel.

    But they’re boycotting it! In fact, many of them have noticed that they hardly buy stuff from Tor anyway, so that must be super-effective, right?

    And also, I’m told that there are many lurkers who support the boycott! Very very many! Vox Day and Peter Grant have said so. I don’t know who they are, but surely they must be paragons of honesty and a pillar of the greater SF&F community?

  2. And these are the capital F fans that BT and the pups have been ranting about. And I have to ask. Was there a Baen presence at Comicon?

  3. Actually I had the impression these were the “small f fans” Brad and the Pups have been ranting about.

    But the point is the same, the people Brad believes are his natural allies and a sleeping giant ready to waken and shake Worldcon Fandom off its back 1) haven’t heard of the Tor boycott, 2) have no idea who the Puppies are 3) have noticed that something went wrong with the Hugos this year.

  4. But…but…since George R R Martin mentioned the boycott, that means it must be working, and making McMillian nervous. (Seriously, this is a line that Peter Grant is making now)

  5. They really should know better by now; every time they make yet another totally fatuous remark they set themselves up for another round of derision. Though I suppose that if anyone had any lingering doubts as to which planet they are living on then this should suffice.

    In what universe is it a good idea to arouse the contempt of a guy with gazillions of devoted fans who read his blog? A guy who writes brilliantly across a number of fields, and thus can express that contempt very, very well? A guy calling out the despicable behaviour of some individuals, slicing and dicing anyone silly enough to believe that they are good enough to go mano a mano with GRR Martin?

    Of course, it also provides the rest of us with our own opportunities to make sure that people, including GRRM, know about that despicable behaviour; if Peter Grant wants to fawn at VD’s feet then he can go ahead and do so. It probably hasn’t occurred to him that accusing the entire population of England of antisemitism isn’t going to do much for any possible sales in England, apart from the Neo-Nazis, and there are very few of them…

  6. Stevie: They really should know better by now; every time they make yet another totally fatuous remark they set themselves up for another round of derision.

    Well, they do it so often that they must love the results.

  7. PG just makes me think of children’s films and tea. He’s letting the horrible gits with great acronyms side down. (No ape jokes please, people familiar with PG Tips adverts. Could end up in dodgy territory.)

    @Stevie

    To be fair, I doubt many Brits were buying Castalia House books anyway. Even our primary right-wing party is positively socialist compared to VD. (And I’m no fan of the Tories.)

  8. The words “petard” and “hoisted” come to mind. While I admit that over the past week I have wondered what is happening in the ongoing kerfuffle, all in all it’s for the best to let sleeping dogs lie. Only our constant attention has kept them fed and watered and awake.

  9. Now that the majority of the posts about the hijacking of this year’s Hugos by the Puppies have slowed to a trickle, the foul stench and loud noise of their massed flatulence have cleared and faded away respectively. I’m gratified to see that many attendees at San Diego Comic Con are aware of what has happened and are overwhelmingly in favor of not gaming the rules to suit your political purposes.

  10. Janice

    I’m all for letting sleeping dogs lie. Unfortunately they are awake, and telling lies, which is an entirely different matter.

    You are, of course, free to tell GRRM that he should ignore them but, judging from the people who have tried, I doubt that he’s interested…

  11. I have absolutely no intention of telling GRRM or you or anyone else to do anything. I am noting that for such a “militant” group there seems to be a dearth of tactical thinking.

    Yes indeed this news from Comic Con needs to be amplified with pictures and on blogs. What the puppies say does not. They’re barking to the choir and there is no need for me to amplify that signal. If you want to keep sniffing around that particular den, and throwing them bones, go for it.

  12. Although Baen’s built their brand to garner fans of the publisher (a bizarre concept to me) versus (just) the authors, that’s a niche. Many folks don’t know, and most don’t care, who publishes what. Sure, SFF fans* are more likely to be aware of who-publishes-what, but I’m a huge SFF fan and buy SFF almost exclusively, and I only check the publisher to know whether to buy paper or ebook.**

    * I’m already tired fo BRT’s latest divisiveness schtick (fan/Fan).

    ** I prefer DRM-less ebooks, although a $1.99 sale can lead to exceptions, and OMG the ebook sample of The Girl With All the Gifts had me buying the ebook so I could keep reading immediately! 😉

    ETA – LOL @ “barking to the choir,” Janice.

  13. It never ceases to amaze me that anyone, aside from the few folks who participate in the boycott, would imagine it is having any serious effect. It is more or less the same thing as one small town deciding they’re not going to buy one particular brand of clothing anymore, while the rest of the country merrily goes on buying any brand they usually buy. The folks in that town would have tons of evidence that the boycott is very effective. After all, no one is is wearing that brand of clothing anymore!

  14. The puppies do not have reality to check. They’ve mostly been living in a fantasy world comprised of boys willing to toss $40 at something they don’t understand in an attempt to make a point, well, like pissing in the snow marks territory.

    However, the question is not “Will No Award win a Hugo category?”, it’s “How many categories will No Award win?”

  15. However, the question is not “Will No Award win a Hugo category?”, it’s “How many categories will No Award win?”

    Are we starting a betting pool? Put me down for “Novella” and “Best Related Work”

  16. VD and his cronies remind me of Von Goom, in Victor Contoski’s wonderful old story, “Von Goom’s Gambit,” a tale about a man who tried to cheat his way to the top of the chess world by using a within-the-rules-but-world-threatening chess move. Things didn’t work out as Von Goom planned, either.

  17. I’m not a betting person, but Novella and Related Work both seem destined for “No Awards” to me, as well. Related Work for sure. I’m less certain about Novella. And there’s a handful of other categories that had nothing truly worthy of a Hugo in them, but people may be forgiving and something might get by No Award in those.

  18. Novella probably, not so sure about Related Work. The thermodynamics essay seems to be getting some support from non-Puppies.

  19. Meredith

    You are right; it’s an interesting way of looking at this situation. The difficulty is that no-one, at this point, knows the outcome of all those supporting memberships; confident predictions are all very well but we have no evidential basis for such predictions. After all, nobody saw the near total success of the slates in cornering the nominations coming; this is not exactly a triumph of informed opinion.

    Equally, it’s no longer possible to pretend that if we just ignore them they will go away, however appealing that particular illusion seems to some; SP4 is already up and running, and even if EPH succeeds at the business meeting we still need it confirmed in 2016. Neither of those events is guaranteed, and the more that people pretend otherwise the more likely it is that we won’t get them.

    However, I am on the downhill stretch, I am halfway through the ‘Three Body Problem’ which completes my reading. On the other hand I am away in Gozo for a week, so I will defer that till my return; I have some really nice reward books lined up, in between sea trips and concerts, which with any luck will wipe my brain of the lingering remains of the ghastly stuff I have plodded through…

  20. Was there a Baen presence at Comicon?

    Unless it was under some other name, no.

    Trade book publishers listed as exhibitors include Tor/Seven Seas, Simon & Schuster, Random House, Quirk Books, Penguin, Macmillan Children’s, Harper Collins, Hachette, DK Publishing, Disney Publishing, Del Rey/Lucas, Chronicle, Abrams and probably others whose names I didn’t recognize as trade publishers.

    It’s possible they have a section of the S&S booth or something, but there’s no specifically-Baen booth.

    They do set up at New York Comicon.

  21. @Stevie

    I hope that those Supporting Memberships aren’t a Puppy majority, but we won’t know until the results are released. EPH is the most important thing, and I hope people vote for it.

    I’m having a hard time with Three Body Problem. Its not bad or anything and the translation is great, but for some reason I keep getting distracted and reading something else. I can’t quite put my finger on why.

  22. Meredith: Three Body Problem held me with the character-driven beginning, and wowed me at the end with the Big Science. The middle doesn’t maintain the level of interest I experienced in the first and last stretches of the book.

    The dwindling of the powerful character-establishing scenes that launch the novel, and the transition to a drier, essentially golden age problem-solving story, may possibly be affecting your reading experience.

  23. Mike

    Thank you. I too have hit the middle with not much enthusiasm; it helps to know that the last stretches are as good as the opening!

  24. @Mike Glyer

    Ah, that might be it. At least I have something to look forward to then, once I can get past gliding off the book.

    @Lis Carey

    I think Totaled has a chance in Short Story and The Day The World Turned Upside Down might have a chance in Novelette, but they both have plenty of detractors. Hard categories to call.

    Addy was a beautiful dog, and that’s a lovely tribute to her. I approve of her friendliness towards my fellow mobility impaired peeps. 🙂

  25. Meredith on July 12, 2015 at 8:18 am said:

    Oh sod it, I forgot s*cialist flags for spam.

    Out of context that is a mighty sentence. I can’t help imagine a soviet era poster full of red flags marching towards progress/electrification/whatever all with ‘spam’ written on them.

  26. I think Novella is the best chance for No Award to win – although some of the non-works categories may be strong contenders if people who normally wouldn’t vote in those categories vote No Award instead.
    Best Related Work – I don’t think The Hot Equations will pull in enough votes to beat No Award. It is OK but would struggle if faced with any kind of serious opposition.
    Short Story and Novellette – both interesting races for No Award. VD un-personing English will make it easier for people to vote for Totaled with a clear conscious.

  27. Kendall:

    Although Baen’s built their brand to garner fans of the publisher (a bizarre concept to me) versus (just) the authors, that’s a niche. Many folks don’t know, and most don’t care, who publishes what.

    I know of several professional writers who advise newer writers to pay attention to who publishes more of their own favourites as a good way to decide who to sell to. one (Jim Macdonald) also talks about this in terms of branding that makes it easier to reach a desired audience. The reasoning is that some branding is in fact relevant even to people who don’t consciously know the publisher’s name, based on visual cues in the cover design.

    It’s certainly true that there are some cover artists and fonts and design choices that look more Torlike (or DAWlike, though I haven’t paid enough attention to learn if it really is universal) to me, though Baen is by far the most unsubtle about this, as they are about all their branding.

  28. @ Lis Carey
    Addy was a beauty, how lucky you were to have each other. What breed was she? I love her perky ears, joyful running and elegant shape. (Sorry for my ignorance – cat person.)

  29. @Meredith —

    Yes, Addy was blessedly undisturbed by mobility equipment, and we used to visit nursing homes, where all she saw was a bunch of nice people who wanted to pet her and sneak her treats. The picture with the lady in the wheelchair, that woman had just lost her fourteen-year-old Chinese Crested and was thrilled that Addy, unlike many small dogs, wasn’t spooked by her motorized wheelchair and was happy to sit in her lap for a visit.

    @Msb —

    Addy was a Chinese Crested. They’re famous for being hairless dogs, but they come in two varieties, Hairless and Powderpuff. Addy was a powderpuff. I also have her niece, Dora, who is a Hairless:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/27614877@N08/19635222142/in/dateposted-public/

    They are wonderful dogs, and Addy was, like you, a fan of cats. She grew up with cats, and never understood why cats outside or in other people’s homes mostly weren’t interested in making friends.

  30. If I were a betting woman (I am not), my wholly unscientific bet would be that No Award will win in Short Story, Novelette, Novella, and Related Work.

    Although every category (except, I think, novella) has one work in it which has gotten favorable reaction from many…

    (1) Even in those instances, though, I’ve seen a lot of people conclude that, nonetheless, the work doesn’t strike them as Hugo-quality and they don’t think it should win a rocket just because the Puppies ensured it has such weak competition, so they’re voting No Award anyhow.

    (2) I also don’t have the impression that as many people liked those particular works as disliked them. (“Totaled” may be an exception to that.)

    (3) In addition to all the people I’ve seen pan all those works, or say a few of them were good but not award-quality, so they will presumably be voting No Award (or abstaining), I’ve seen a lot of people say they’re voting No Award on al lPuppy picks to protest the gaming of the ballot.

    Since the Puppies are prone to making accusations, I feel compelled to state clearly that I have no insider information whatsoever; my guess about the results is JUST a guess, and it’s based purely on my impression of public online commentaries I’ve seen for the past couple of months.

    I also think it’s possible that Best Fan Writer will go to No Award. If it does not, then I think it will probably go to Laura Mixon; but I don’t think it’s clear that she’s got enough voter support to win it. I wouldn’t care to bet on this one, even if I were a betting woman.

  31. Laura, that’s about my assessment as well. I feel sure No Award won’t win in Novel, and I think it’s overwhelmingly unlikely in either Dramatic Presentation category. It seems unlikely in the fan categories, but there I’m so out of the loop of conversation among people who follow those scenes that I consider my views about as reliable as table-rapping. But I feel pretty sure we’ll see at least two No Awards in the short fiction categories, and won’t be surprised by more.

  32. Agreed, I don’t think there will be a No Award for Best Novel. For one thing, there are 3 novels that are NOT Puppy picks, which leaves tchoices available to voters protesting the gaming of the ballot by voting No Award ahead of all Puppy picks.

    Also, the three non-Puppy novels have gotten a LOT of favorable feedback. Not universally, but a lot, and not many people react to them by saying, “This shouldn’t even be on an awards ballot.” I have a feeling that THREE BODY may win, but I feel like GOBLIN EMPEROR has so much support, this is another category I wouldn’t bet on, as it feels too close to call, in terms of online neep about the books and how people intend to vote. Although a lot of people also like ANCILLARY SWORD, I think there tends to be resistance to awarding a Best Novel Hugo to someone two years in a row, so I’ll be surprised if Leckie wins.

  33. ????! That wholesome soviet s*cialist realism meat of heroes! ????????, ????? ?? ????? ?? ????!

    (In reality, our decadent Western canned spiced ham was not known in the glorious soviet countries. They raised their own pigs, etc., etc.)

    ETA: well, crud. All those ??? were originally Cyrillic letters. Let that be a lesson to us all.

  34. snowcrash:

    The Expanse is from Orbit….so no guilt about the boycott there. 😛

  35. @Lenora Rose: I’ve heard that too (ditto for finding an agent), but as a way of finding who may be interested in your type of book. A lot of cover design seems to be aimed at the genre/sub-genre (why we can recognize urban fantasy covers at 20 paces) – and IMHO it’s borne out by what I’ve heard artists and art directors say at convention panels. But sure, maybe there are subtler things going on that I don’t pick up on. Tor certainly has plenty of variety from what I’ve seen. Of course, similarities within a publisher may be more just art director & marketing department tastes (including font choices).

    Anyway, just my impression; you’ve made me want to survey my books…if I had the time…. 😉 Thanks.

  36. @Kendall – I’m neither snowcrash nor Laura, but I blew through Leviathan Wakes (the first Expanse novel) in about two days. I highly recommend it. I haven’t read the others yet, mostly due to time constraints; but LW works perfectly well as a stand-alone novel. If the setting and characters don’t grab you enough to read the rest of the series, you’re not left with a cliffhanger.

  37. Kendall, I’m a little ways into the fourth, and like them a lot. There is some epic-scale destruction but very little ick and bloody carnage, and it’s well-done space opera with great escalating complications. I like that there are villains who have actually cunning plans that fail only because of actors they genuinely couldn’t have foreseen; I love the continuing disagreement over what to do about/with/to the guy who simply can’t bear to keep secrets.

    It’s not stuff I would nominate for a Hugo, but I really, really enjoyed the ones I’ve read.

  38. @Kendall

    Like anything it all depends on taste. I read Leviathan Wakes about a month ago. I thought the characters seemed mostly two dimensional and the plot a bit forced. Possibly the most interesting character (Miller, the detective) didn’t get enough screen time. Overall, in a lot of ways, it felt like a run of the mill tie-in book.

    All that said, a lot of folks are raving about it, so obviously it suits many tastes other than mine. My top picks in space opera would be say CJ Cherryh, Walter Jon Williams, and Peter F. Hamilton. It didn’t check the boxes I get from those authors. (For folks with similar tastes: check out Hannu Rajaniemi for a newer author!)

    I didn’t bounce out of it though (or more like me than a bounce: slowly wander away and never come back to it). It’s worth remembering too it’s a first novel. I know the teaser chapter for Caliban’s War, the second book, looked good. I’ll probably buy it at some point when finances aren’t tight though it’s about 10th in line behind other to be read books.

  39. I would have to reread a bunch to say for sure, but my recollection is that the characterization improves by leaps and bounds after Leviathan Wakes.

  40. @Kendall – I think Bruce has said it in better ways than I could, but yes, I recommend them. I also think it’s worth pointing out that the protagonists are all fairly well-realised, which is something I don’t see very often in the space opera genre (not that I read a great deal of it anyway)

  41. Stoic: Different flavors of space opera, I think. The Expanse is something I’d recommend to someone who came up and said, “Bruce, I really enjoyed The Mote In God’s Eye and a bunch of Keith Laumer and H. Beam Piper, but these days the sexism and racism get me down. What’s got that kind of forward-marching pace of adventure while being comfortable with more of humanity as protagonists?” The Expanse is a good answer to that question.

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