24 thoughts on “2024 Dragon Awards Ballot”

1. I think Best Science Fiction or Fantasy TV Series, TV or Internet really has “nine” entries instead of “none” 🙂

2. F. Paul Wilson has been writing a long time!

3. Were the TV nominations decided by just listing everything that was on in the past year?

4. I’ve read 3 of the 7 Best Science Fiction Novels and I thought These Burning Stars by Bethany Jacobs was the best one. Definitely recommend it.

   Iron Flame may be popular, but I only read it because I won a copy. Not good.

5. Some of these are on my tbr, and I loved “The Reformatory” by Tananarive Due.

   I started looking up reviews of those I hadn’t heard of and was startled to find “Theft of Fire” by Devon Eriksen quoted as “where Elon Musk’s futuristic and optimistic vision came true.” and featuring “Elon Musk’s great-great-granddaughter, though not named as such” – huh?

6. I entirely missed the science fictional aspects of Saint of Bright Doors.

7. Nickpheas on August 6, 2024 at 1:23 am said:

   I entirely missed the science fictional aspects of Saint of Bright Doors.

   Yeah…great book but that’s an odd category for it

8. So…when I grabbed the list of the Dragon Award site Best Illustrative Book Cover: Goblin Market by Cedar Sanderson wasn’t on the list and still isn’t but people say they have seen it on the actual ballot?

9. Camestros Felapton: The Sanderson cover was a finalist in the original announcement but has since been removed. (Nor is it an option to vote for in the online ballot.) Thanks for your sharp eyes.

10. What happened to the Sanderson cover? Raconteur Press (the publisher of Goblin Market) sent out a ‘Hooray for Cedar’ email yesterday, touting her cover being on the ballot. I hadn’t heard anything else about it until I saw this File770 post saying it’s no longer there.

11. Mike Glyer on August 6, 2024 at 5:22 am said:

    Camestros Felapton: The Sanderson cover was a finalist in the original announcement but has since been removed. (Nor is it an option to vote for in the online ballot.) Thanks for your sharp eyes.

    Doris Sutherland spotted it first. I wonder if it was because Cedar Sanderson uses AI images?

12. Dragon Con in February announced a policy banning AI art from their art show. No public policy has been issued about the awards, however, it would be consistent to not allow as finalists covers done using AI tools as Sanderson does. Why they would not have identified this problem up front is a question, although other competitions have had to pull finalists for that cause which they failed to recognize in advance.

13. Mike Glyer on August 6, 2024 at 12:13 pm said:

    Dragon Con in February announced a policy banning AI art from their art show. No public policy has been issued about the awards, however, it would be consistent to not allow as finalists covers done using AI tools as Sanderson does.

    I agree it would make sense to not allow AI generated images in this category – particularly as it appears to exist to promote SF&F artists. I suspect that Sanderson’s work isn’t the only one of the finalists to use generative AI though.

14. So excited that Devon’s “Theft of Fire” is on the ballot for Best Science Fiction Novel!

    I’m so grateful for his nomination. I love his book, but I’m obviously biased. It’s crazy that enough readers loved his debut to nominate it.

    I’d appreciate anyone giving Theft of Fire a chance, and considering it for their vote 🙂 There’s a 3 chapter sample at DevonEriksen.com!

15. Camestros Felapton on August 6, 2024 at 12:44 pm said:
    I agree it would make sense to not allow AI generated images in this category – particularly as it appears to exist to promote SF&F artists. I suspect that Sanderson’s work isn’t the only one of the finalists to use generative AI though.

    The nice thing about Sanderson is that she is up front about using AI. The fact that Raconteur Press uses AI images (Cedar does all the illustrations for Rac Press) is the reason that I haven’t subbed anything to their anthologies (and it’s a shame, because some of their anthologies look pretty fun), but I respect and appreciate that Cedar doesn’t try to hide it or be coy about it.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if this kerfuffle is due to a ‘no AI’ rule, and the Dragon Award people didn’t realize she used AI until it was brought to their attention by the ballot-receiving public.

16. Jonna Hayden, Production Manager for Raconteur Press, sent this email to the Rac Press substack/newsletter subscribers this evening:

    Concerning the Dragon Awards

    In an effort towards transparency, we have sent the following letter to the Dragon Awards team, via Dragon Con:

    I am the Production Manager for Raconteur Press, and our Lead Designer is Cedar Sanderson. Cedar was nominated for a Dragon Award for her work on our book “Goblin Market” and achieved a place on the final ballot in the category “Best Illustrative Cover” for 2024. Or so we thought. Several hours after the final ballot was announced (and we proudly shared the information) Cedar’s name was removed.

    We were surprised by this removal–there has been no explanation, no replacement name added to the list, and no comment of any kind from the Dragon Awards as to the reason behind it. Cedar has not been contacted, and multiple emails from many, many fans have gone unanswered.

    In their frustration, her fans have been emailing, messaging, and calling us, to see if we have any communication or information as to the ‘why’ of this. We are, unfortunately, equally in the dark. We’ve been referring them to the contact form on the Awards page, but no information has been forthcoming. The lack of any comment on the Dragon Awards’ part is now beginning to lead to speculation as to the integrity of the awards as a whole. In light of the recent Hugo issues at the China Worldcon, I would think your organization would be striving to maintain the utmost transparency.

    Is there any plan whatsoever to address this? Will there be a statement of any kind as to the reasons? I would like to return to my regular job of publishing great short fiction, and not be fielding the frustrated and angry messages of fans who nominated her in good faith.

    I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation, and sharing it will help.

    Please let us know what the the plan for this is going forward.

    Thank you.

17. Gabe on August 6, 2024 at 1:59 pm said:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if this kerfuffle is due to a ‘no AI’ rule, and the Dragon Award people didn’t realize she used AI until it was brought to their attention by the ballot-receiving public

    Any other award and I would assume the same but the Dragon Awards aren’t known for acting quickly when faced by public pressure. I’m not sure how many people would have noticed even in the window between the ballot going up and the change.

    Possibly, it was internal or, I suspect, a decision made before the ballot was announced but they put up an earlier draft. It’s the Dragons so I think we should assume some sort of shambolic mess up was involved somewhere.

18. I’m not a big fan of making up scenarios. Whatever happened left the category with only five finalists instead of the canonical six. The slot could have been backfilled in the draft stage. I’m willing to wait for Dragon administration to disclose the true cause of the problem.

    And are we in a position to throw rocks inside our glass house? “It’s the Dragons and anything could have happened” — I wistfully remember when that would never have been said about the Hugos.

19. There are other AI-in-part or more covers in there. And other anthology covers. Sanderson’s cover did not fall afoul of the announced nomination rules in any way.

    Someone’s got some ‘splainin’ to do.

20. Mike Glyer on August 6, 2024 at 4:18 pm said:

    I’m not a big fan of making up scenarios.

    The big difference I feel with Worldcon shenanigans is the speculation is about what we will eventually find out. With the Dragon Awards speculation is all there is.

21. Oh, there’s a comment on a post at the Publisher’s Facebook page. Looks legit:
    “Just received a response “Cedar Sanderson’s entry in the Best Illustrative Cover category had been created in part using Artificial Intelligence tools. As a consequence, we removed her cover for The Goblin Market from consideration because we don’t allow AI in our Art Show, Comic and Pop Artist Alley, Vendor Halls or the Awards. “”

    Which sounds like a can of worms being opened.

22. Camestros Felapton on August 7, 2024 at 2:16 am said:
    Oh, there’s a comment on a post at the Publisher’s Facebook page. Looks legit:
    “Just received a response “Cedar Sanderson’s entry in the Best Illustrative Cover category had been created in part using Artificial Intelligence tools. As a consequence, we removed her cover for The Goblin Market from consideration because we don’t allow AI in our Art Show, Comic and Pop Artist Alley, Vendor Halls or the Awards. “”

    Which sounds like a can of worms being opened.

    Finally, we know the reason! But, just as a courtesy, if nothing else, the Dragon Awards committee should have reached out to the artist and the publisher straight away instead of leaving them (as well as everyone else) in the dark. It’s bad enough being nominated for an award only to have that nomination retracted, but without an explanation? And as Mike pointed out, another candidate should have been nominated in Cedar Sanderson’s place, so somebody else is losing out as well.

    But if Tully is right – that there are other AI-assisted covers among the nominees – then perhaps the entire category should be pulled from this year’s event.

23. From Sanderson’s publisher, excerpts:

    While we’ve never hidden the fact that Cedar uses AI tools, and we have no issue with you choosing the standards for your award, we are a bit surprised that you removed her from the nomination based on a notification from someone without bothering to conduct due diligence by contacting either her or her publisher for clarification.

    …………………………..

    The stated rules for entry on the Dragon Awards site for the category do not mention, in any way, shape, or form, that the artist’s use of AI tools in the work is not allowed for that nomination.

    …………….

    Sudden removal of a finalist, with no explanation and no direct contact, for a standard not listed as a disqualifying factor from the beginning of the nomination period, reduces the trust in the process substantially.

    It would be remiss of us if we did not point out that many people have noted several other nominations in this category appear to have used AI processes. We will trust that after being notified about Cedar’s use of AI, you chose to verify with all the finalists that they didn’t use any AI tools in the production of their work, as it now will become a point of interest for those nominations disenfranchised by this lack of clarity.

    Going forward, we would suggest that after this year’s confusion, that your organization take the necessary steps to make the requirements for a valid nomination in this category clear and precise, and that these clear and concise standards be applied consistently. What specific AI tools and processes are forbidden? Photoshop, for example, has built-in AI (Firefly). Does it disqualify an artist if they use it?

24. Pingback: Dragon Awards Acknowledge They Pulled Sanderson From Finalists Over AI Art | File 770

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