DisCon III’s WSFS Division head Nicholas Whyte today announced on Twitter and Facebook that the Hugo Administration team of the 2021 Worldcon has resigned en masse:
Departing WSFS Division Head Nicholas Whyte was also in charge of the 2023 Site Selection voting.
The committee has not yet addressed the staff resignations.
This is the second team of Hugo administrators to quit DisCon III this year. The con’s original WSFS Division Head Jared Dashoff explained here in January why he and the Hugo Administrator resigned. It had to do with efforts to manage policies created by the committee “to deal with a) space constraints at receptions and award ceremonies, b) budget constraints of the receptions and trophies, c) constraints relating to font size on both ballots and in-ceremony visuals, and d) in response to multiple requests to list long lists of contributors to Hugo Finalists over the last few years….”
Dashoff made his comment in response to Colette Fozard’s guest post about why she resigned as DisCon III co-chair in the same timeframe.
The protested restrictions, which DisCon III announced January 11, were repudiated the next day by DisCon III chair Bill Lawhorn (see “DisCon III Abandons Previously Announced Hugo Policy”). Lawhorn said:
…All publications and visuals linked to the Hugo Awards will include all Hugo Finalist creators named to DisCon III with no restrictions to the number of names. This includes, and is not limited to, the Hugo Awards ballot, the visuals used during the Hugo Awards Ceremony, the plaques on the Hugo Awards trophies, the Hugo Awards Ceremony program guide, the DisCon III souvenir guide, and the DisCon III and Hugo Awards websites.
We will address concerns about the size of events such as the Hugo Pre-Reception, the number of Hugo Awards trophies, and any other cost considerations individually with the finalists….
However, it seems that when the time recently arrived to address these concerns, some controversial limitations were still on the table – see the message documented in Pixel Scroll 6/19/21 item #6.
When Nicholas Whyte announced on Facebook last January 17 that he had signed on as DisCon III’s new WSFS Division Head, he commented: .
…The Hugos have had some reputational issues to deal with. Having fought off direct assault by ill-wishers in 2015 and 2016, some pretty significant mistakes were made more recently. Many of those were outside the immediate responsibility of the Hugo Administrators, including most notably the awful botching of last year’s Hugo ceremony and the Hugo Losers Party in 2019, and the hostile response from some in the community to the winners of the award for Best Related Work in both of those years (cases where I very much stand by the eligibility decisions that were made by teams that I was a part of).
I have made mistakes as well, and I hope that I have learned from them. In particular, it’s clear, not least from the problems that arose in the last few days, that the Hugos as a whole need to be less siloed and need to improve communication in both directions with the rest of the Worldcon and with the wider stakeholder community (as my work colleagues would put it). DisCon III had already started putting structures in place that would improve this side of things, and I look forward to working with those and building on them.
What led to today’s round of resignations Whyte doesn’t explicitly say. He simply quotes Lawhorn’s aspirational statement about last January’s policy reversal, and says “It is clear that we have taken the process as far as we can, and that our input is no longer needed by the convention leadership.”
[Thanks to James Davis Nicoll for the story.]
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On that note, here’s a Meredith Moment:
Startide Rising (The Uplift Saga Book 2) by David Brin is $1.99 at the usual (US) digital suspects.
I really thought we already had enough gasoline for this fire.
@Laura
If Strange Horizons has found a way to game the system, I’m not sure “Good for them” is the best response.
I don’t see that as gaming the system. Previous Worldcons worked out how many names they would allow them to list. DisCon was the first to say they could list everyone. Again, I say, good for them.
bill pontificates If Strange Horizons has found a way to game the system, I’m not sure “Good for them” is the best response.
Following the rules set out for everyone to follow is not gaming the system. They’re playing fair and square, so good for them actually would be quite appropriate!
Strange Horizons did not game the system. They were told they could list everyones and did. Nothing wrong about that.
Also, I really wish people would stop pointing fingers at Strange Horizons. This latest uproar was not started by them and they did not complain, even though they were affected by the initial four person limit.
Stephen Granade on June 24, 2021 at 10:26 am said:
Highlighting Stephen Granade’s post and including a link to it, as an alternative to upvoting it, favoriting it, liking it, and retweeting it, which are not features of the system it was posted to, but all of which I would do as many times as allowed if they were.
A few years ago, the puppies found a way to game the system by following the rules set out for everyone. This lead to a rule change. I hope Strange Horizons’ behaviour this year will also lead to a rule change.
Stern says A few years ago, the puppies found a way to game the system by following the rules set out for everyone. This lead to a rule change. I hope Strange Horizons’ behaviour this year will also lead to a rule change.
What behavior? They didn’t do anything.
Sten on June 24, 2021 at 2:29 pm said:
At a much earlier stage where it actually mattered. Here it won’t change the results, so A RULE CHANGE IS NOT NEEDED. Also, it isn’t Strange Horizons that caused this, even though people are pointing fingers at them.
Read the thread.
Again I don’t see Strange Horizons gaming the system. There is not a rule to game here. How a finalist is listed is between them and the current Worldcon — as it should be. Future Wordcons are under no obligation to do this. They might feel pressure to now, but that’s on DisCon.
I will agree that Strange Horizons is not gaming the system, but it’s definitely taking advantage of a non-profit, volunteer-staffed organization with limited resources. Even if only 20 of its staff show up at the pre-ceremony reception, it does put a strain on the concom. The Hugos are one of a Worldcon’s biggest budget items and the only reason some may have a financial surplus is because its staff is unpaid.
I will also agree with Stephen Granade’s comments that first readers are valuable support to a publication, but they aren’t the ones who select the content chosen to publish. Any honors should go to the people who do.
FWIW, I work as a text processor in technical publications. Not only do I do desktop publishing, but I frequently do some proofreading, editing and QCing data. I support the writers and engineers, but the one who gets the credit or blame for the books are the ones who responsible for the content. So yes, I do lump support staff with chauffeurs and caterers, regardless of their value.
Adrienne Foster says I will agree that Strange Horizons is not gaming the system, but it’s definitely taking advantage of a non-profit, volunteer-staffed organization with limited resources. Even if only 20 of its staff show up at the pre-ceremony reception, it does put a strain on the concom. The Hugos are one of a Worldcon’s biggest budget items and the only reason some may have a financial surplus is because its staff is unpaid.
Let’s be clear. The staff isn’t unpaid, it’s volunteer. There’s a big difference. You honestly can’t generate enough money off running an event like a Worldcon to pay to staff anywhere what it’s worth. Like music festivals, they don’t really work unless you’ve got dedicated volunteer, knowledgeable staff.
I will also agree with Stephen Granade’s comments that first readers are valuable support to a publication, but they aren’t the ones who select the content chosen to publish. Any honors should go to the people who do.
Oh bull. Without first readers or interns as they’re known in the publishing industry, very little of of what we read would ever get published.
FWIW, I work as a text processor in technical publications. Not only do I do desktop publishing, but I frequently do some proofreading, editing and QCing data. I support the writers and engineers, but the one who gets the credit or blame for the books are the ones who responsible for the content. So yes, I do lump support staff with chauffeurs and caterers, regardless of their value.
Must be nice to an elitist. I have a higher respect than you obviously do for those who put together anything of an intellectual nature such as semi-pro zine or even a fanzine. (I’ve contributed to several of the latter down the decades.) So everyone involved in those efforts is worthy of my admiration.
Strange Horizons is getting a lot of heat, which is sad because honestly it is much journey planets fault as theirs. This is not the first year this has been happening with the limiting of nominee numbers, but it is the first year it’s playing out in public, which is bringing out a lot of the anger from people because they’re seeing it fir the first time and how it could actually affect them. And a lot of people point out that the categories that are affected are the ones that have been some of the most diverse recently, and the ones that are fan and fan-adjacent categories. From the outside, I understand that it looks weird to have 10 15, 70 nominees, but I also understand why. Journey planets case it’s everyone is equal editor, no one works on every issue. If we had to only list four, we’d be cutting out people whose editorial contribution was as great as those listed.
Honestly, if they come to us and said “we’re having money issues, we can’t have everyone at the event because we can’t afford it” I would have fundraised. Instead, again we have to make a choice among equals instead of simply putting cards on the table and asking for help.
I would venture the team did everything in their power to speak for the nominees and were shut down. It’s a shame because truly that was an All-Star team who felt they couldn’t go on.
I’ve heard two versions, one that Strange Horizons just wanted 89 people listed on a slide, and another version that 89 people from Strange Horizons could theoretically be on stage to receive the award. What’s actually going on?
Strange Horizons wanted all its contributors in 2020 (89 people altogether) listed in the finalist announcement.
However, the 89 contributors to Strange Horizons are spread out around the globe and many of them cannot attend DisCon due to travel restriction, visa issues, financial issues, low vaccination rates in many non-western countries, etc… I don’t know how many Strange Horizons contributors will be at DisCon and neither does anybody else except maybe Strange Horizons, but there won’t be 89 people on stage.
Also, in Dublin all members of Team Journey Planet (significantly more than four) attended the recpetion and the ceremony and were seated in the auditorium without issues.
its not just about canapes, having so many people devalues the award. 87 people should not think of themselves winning themselves the same sort of Hugo as the Best Series novellist. while we want fan Hugos to have similar respect to professional ones SH are taking the Mick.
To be fair to Strange Horizons, it’s the CoNZealand Fringe folks who have been performatively outraged about this issue.
rob_matic: it’s the
CoNZealandFringe folks who have been performatively outraged about this issue.Fixed That For You.
FWIW, the Oscars limit the number of trophies to 6 for Best Picture. I don’t think they limit attendance though.
I worked on Soul and I didn’t get an invite.
Strange Horizons (also an all-volunteer organization I believe) is not taking advantage of DisCon. They took DisCon up on their offer to list everyone. The first time they’ve been able to (and possibly the only time they will have the opportunity). Listing everyone on the ballot is not expecting everyone to be invited to the pre-reception or brought up on stage and given their own individual Hugo rocket should they win.
Strange Horizons is showing that they feel all of their staff are integral to this nomination. DisCon initially listed their editor-in-chief before everyone else, and Strange Horizons had it changed so that they were listed alphabetically among the rest. Even if they narrowed it down to their senior editors, it would still be something in the range of 15 to 20 people.
I also fail to see that it is diluting the honor. They are still one of six finalists. And only one semiprozine will win. (Probably Uncanny! ;P)
Laura says Strange Horizons is showing that they feel all of their staff are integral to this nomination. DisCon initially listed their editor-in-chief before everyone else, and Strange Horizons had it changed so that they were listed alphabetically among the rest. Even if they narrowed it down to their senior editors, it would still be something in the range of 15 to 20 people.
So where are these full listings? The Hugo packet only lists nine names for them.
D’oh, I hadn’t thought of looking in the packet! I was looking at their current masthead and guesstimating that it would be around the same number for 2020. Counting senior editors and other “higher level” positions.
Laura says D’oh, I hadn’t thought of looking in the packet! I was looking at their current masthead and guesstimating that it would be around the same number for 2020. Counting senior editors and other “higher level” positions.
Interesting. Fiyah actually has more staff listed in the Hugo packet that they do, though Uncanny has a few less. Beneath Ceaseless Skies Is the most svelte operation with just a singe staffer. None have really huge staffs listed there.
BCS’s website shows 5 current staff members, including the editor-in-chief, who have been there from 2020 or before.
Laura says BCS’s website shows 5 current staff members, including the editor-in-chief, who have been there from 2020 or before.
Be that as it may, but the Hugo package only lists the name of Scott H. Andrews. I’m assuming the Hugo listing is how the nominee wished to be listed. He’s the Editor-in-Chief with the others listed as an Assistant Editor and three Editorial Assistants.
And PodCastle which has at least twenty staff members only lists two staffers in the Hugo package.
I suspect that the names listed in the Hugo Packet are the ones associated with the particular content that’s included as a sample.
Yup, BCS, which has also been nominated for the ninth time this year, has always just chosen to have their editor-in-chief on the ballot. Strange Horizons has often listed several more. Presumably whatever they and the current Worldcon settled upon.
Tammy Coxen says I suspect that the names listed in the Hugo Packet are the ones associated with the particular content that’s included as a sample.
Interesting speculation but that’s all it is. Other areas of the Hugo packet such as the Best Fancast, the staff credits list fir the Coode Street Podcast both staff, and Worldbuilding for Masochists lists all three staffers. FIYAH certainly isn’t listing staff associated with a specific edition I’d guess.
Laura says Yup, BCS, which has also been nominated for the ninth time this year, has always just chosen to have their editor-in-chief on the ballot. Strange Horizons has often listed several more. Presumably whatever they and the current Worldcon settled upon.
Rather constrained of him I’d say.
My review website lists all of our editing staff but I’ve seen sites that only list the person that owns it. It’s a matter of personal choice in the end.
I can understand why someone who is an aspiring author or editor might be clamoring for recognition in the earlier stages of their career.
But the Hugo Awards, a fan award, are not the right venue to expect that sort of “list everyone right on down to the Best Boy and Grip” recognition. And it’s unfair to expect a non-profit volunteer organization to be able to afford to provide pre-party and priority seating for even 20 individuals x 6 Semiprozines x 6 Related Works x Fanzines x 6 Fancasts, in addition to all of the other finalists.
So DisCon III, with what is likely to have a greatly-reduced attendance, has agreed to whatever finalist demand. And apparently Scalzi and MRK have offered to fund the increase in expenses. That’s great.
I feel sorry for Chicon 8, which is going to be facing escalated demands, and a lot less resources and finances to support it. I hope fiinalists understand that they’re not going to be able to get everything they demand next year.
I’m reflecting on how glad I was that Jo Van Ekeren was able to name some of you who make this place work when she accepted 770s Hugo in 2018. These things are community efforts whether on the masthead or not
This is true, but in the end “the buck stops” somewhere and I just saw the news that DisCon III’s chairperson, Bill Lawhorn, resigned. It seems being on a Worldcon comcon has become too political in recent years.
Adrienne Foster says This is true, but in the end “the buck stops” somewhere and I just saw the news that DisCon III’s chairperson, Bill Lawhorn, resigned. It seems being on a Worldcon comcon has become too political in recent years.
May I note that since he didn’t state why he was resigning that this statement by you is pure speculation and has no basis in fact? You’re imposing your belief of what circumstances were like and how they caused his resignation but none of us know why he stepped done, and frankly it’s none of our damned business why he did so.
Cat Eldridge, I do concede that is my speculation. It wasn’t stated as a fact, but I can’t tell readers how to infer it.
My home internet connection has decided this is a good day to die. I’ve only been able to get on a few minutes this morning- fortunately long enough to post the news item. I’m not going to try to do a Scroll on my phone. So we’ll see…
When I was accepter for Galactic Journey, the acceptance speech would have named every contributor, even if only a few were listed on the ballot.
That is an appropriate time to acknowledge the people who supported the winner.
I agree, that may be why the Hugo is more significant to authors than other awards. But it’s not the reason the Hugo is significant to everyone else – and that demographic is many thousand times larger than the number of authors who think the Hugo is significant.
Like many things, the Hugos are valuable because people think of them as valuable. Awards are prestigious because people regard them as prestigious.
Lest one think this is being circular, the fact is that a lot of what people think of as being valuable is only regarded as valuable because people think it is. Take something like gold as an example. It is regarded as valuable, to a degree that far outstrips its practical uses. Why? Because people regard gold as valuable. The same holds true for a lot of commodities. They are valuable because people think they are and for little reason else. That’s how our world assigns value to most things.
If Chicon 8 feels pressure in this area, that’s on DisCon 3. Not finalists.
Back in January before they had any idea who the finalists would be, DisCon tried the one-size-fits-all hard limit on names. This was not a good idea. They were called on it. They flipped from hard limit to no limit. This wasn’t a great plan either because it was guaranteed to make limits harder to deal with later. Nevertheless, I don’t blame any finalist one bit for accepting the opportunity DisCon gave them.
Once again, DisCon tries the one-size-fits-all hard limit for the reception. Again they are called on it. Not because finalists are expecting no limit. Because DisCon said they would work with finalists on it, and they didn’t. DisCon treated the finalists themselves as the problem when the finalists could be a resource in finding a solution to the actual problem. Now that communications have opened it sounds like the finalists have been just that. Not only financial (which can’t be expected) but also with ideas.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/many.jofs/permalink/4143462372415488/
@Brian Knapp
Thank you for that link!
Just read the link. Wow. I can stop bemoaning a lack of deets. We now have entered a time of deet abundance.
Regarding the link and Maureen Kincaid Speller’s comment, this is not just about the Strange Horizons team, Discon never asked anybody whether they were actually attending.
I told them as soon as they announced the date changes that I couldn’t attend in person and asked whether it was possible to accept virtually, so I initially assumed that they simply didn’t ask me, because they already knew I couldn’t attend. But it turns out they didn’t ask anybody.
In fact, I suspect this whole uproar might have been avoided if Discon had actually bothered to find out how many warm bodies they would have on site.
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The biggest irony of it being, between the who-is-actually-attending factor and the some-people-with-multiple-nominations factor, if a few questions had been asked first, the numbers PROBABLY would have worked out fine.
No, it isn’t just about who is actually present at DisCon III. That link is Maureen Speller’s side of the story. The criticism Strange Horizons is receiving is coming from outsiders of the concom for its hutzpah of handing them 89 people to acknowledge on the ballot. While everyone admires they appreciate their staff’s support, I don’t recall any finalist making that request before. It’s too excessive. The award is about the people who are responsible for its content and I find it hard to believe all 89 are.
No other Worldcon has ever given finalists the opportunity, and I’d be surprised if one does again.
DisCon allowed every finalist to name as many team members as they wanted. Strange Horizons named 89 people. We can argue whether this was excessive or not, but the rules DisCon set after getting pushback on their original hard limit of (I think) four allowed for this.
Also, one thing in Maureen Kincaid Speller’s post mirrors what I’ve seen with other fanzine, fancast and semiprozine finalists, namely the desire to get Hugo pins for the whole team. This is one area where I think compromise should be possible, especially if members of larger teams are willing to pay for extra pins.