Chengdu Wins 2023 Worldcon Site Selection Vote

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The 81st Worldcon will be held in Chengdu, China from August 23-29, 2023. The convention’s guests of honor will be Sergey Lukianenko, the author of the Night Watch series, Robert Sawyer author of Hominids, and Liu Cixin, the author of The Three-Body Problem.

(The spelling of Lukianenko here follows the usage of the author’s official site, although the Wikipedia spells it with a “y”.)

Site selection administrator Tim Szczesuil reported the following vote totals to the DisCon III business meeting this morning:

FIRST BALLOTPRE-CONWEDNESDAYTHURSDAYFRIDAYTOTAL
Chengdu in 20231950719302006
Winnipeg in ‘2333297197181807
Memphis in 2023 (withdrawn)21317
Write-ins837218
Total with preference22921082262142838
Needed to win    1420
No preference6024975
Total valid votes23521102302232915
Invalid ballots20057

He also reported that a further 917 tokens were sold for which no matching ballots were received.

Yesterday’s controversial but non-binding resolution about the application of the WSFS Constitution’s site selection rules did not lead to the exclusion of large numbers of votes. Szczesuil reports that included in the Pre-Con total are 1,591 ballots from China missing a street address, but otherwise valid. These ballots consisted of 1,586 for Chengdu and 5 with no preference. Had the lack of a street address caused these ballots to be shifted to “No preference,” Winnipeg would have won.

After the results were announced, Chengdu’s representative Chen Shi addressed the business meeting and shared information about their guests, dates, and other plans.

“After these days of hard work, I’m happy to give you this speech here. It’s been four years since Chengdu started and this has given hope to countless Chinese fans. For Chengdu fans, this is a once in a decade opportunity. This is a special moment for us all. It is a new adventure for all of us. It will be a different kind of Worldcon, but it will still be a Worldcon. That you will still recognize as part of these traditions that started in 1939, when the world was a very different place. I want to thank the efforts of the team in Winnipeg. It has been a long journey, and you gave some good competition, and I will say that we have learned some things from you as well! Such as how to run a good fan table, how to run a good community, give a good presentation, and so on. I hope that many of you will be ready and willing to join our teams. I hope that we can welcome all of you to Chengdu. In fact, we welcome everyone here to Chengdu. We prefer it if you come in person, but for those who can’t, a stream of virtual programming will be part of the accommodation.”

Their membership rates currently are Attending $100, and Virtual $80. He said, “We know that the virtual convention has expanded our ideas of what the Worldcon can be and has given us a great chance to build a global community of science fiction fans.”

A photo of the flyer distributed at the business meeting (courtesy of Chris Barkley) shows the staff that Chengdu already has in place, and the positions they are looking to fill. Chen Shi invited people to apply.

CHICON 8 REPORT. Once the Site Selection portion of the meeting was finished, Chicon 8’s chair Helen Montgomery provided an update about next year’s Worldcon in Chicago, then took questions. She said, “We will definitely have a virtual component. We don’t entirely know what it’s going to look like.”

Montgomery was asked, “I’ve heard rumors that George RR Martin will not be welcomed on program. Is that true?” Her answer was not yes or no. She said, “At this time, we have not picked anyone to be on program. Program applications and surveys have not gone out. It is the answer to the question. We have not picked anybody to be on program. And as far as — I don’t even know if Mr. Martin has filled in an applicant form. So I can’t actually answer that. Our goal for program, though, is to — and this has always been one of our goals — is we want to make sure that folks who have been historically marginalized have a voice in our convention. But that is not at the expense of other people who have been active in this fandom for a long time. So we’re looking to find a balance. But, you know , if folks are interested in being on program, fill out the program form. That’s the first thing that we can tell you to do. — that’s the best thing that we can tell you to do. From then, we have a vetting process and the whole nine yards.”

Room reservations for Chicon 8 will open early in 2022. Montgomery encouraged folks who need ADA rooms to e-mail [email protected] and get on the list as soon as possible. ADA rooms will open mid-January. Reservations for everybody else will open in mid-February.

  • Chen Shi
  • Robbie Bourget
Photos by Chris Barkley

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83 thoughts on “Chengdu Wins 2023 Worldcon Site Selection Vote”

  2. This step is over, but more failures ahead. Lukianenko is a Russian chauvinist of the highest degree, actively supporting Russian invasions in both Georgia (2008) and Ukraine (2014), called for murdering “cockroaches on Ukrainian territory by any means the president [Putin] finds necessary.” or “[Geogria] must be bombed. Not residential areas, of course. Military facilities. Barracks. Bridges. Factories. Roads. Power plants. Power transmission lines. Destroy all infrastructure. Bomb Georgia to the Stone Age.”

  4. I am hopeful that this historic Worldcon will go well. To the enthusiastic SF fans in China I say congratulations.

    But man is it going to be a minefield.

  6. FYI that my inclusion on the list of confirmed committee members for the 2023 bid in Chengdu was an error. I have been offered the role of Site Selection Admin, but have not accepted nor turned it down yet. I’m assuming an error in translation and not malice. I congratulate Chengdu on their win and and a race well run!

  7. I plan on attending barring unfortunate things occurring such as my country having horrendously bad relations with China. If certain things occur, I will be boycotting China but I am hoping for the best.

  16. On one level I am happy for the Chengdu bid. On the other, I am disappointed. I was genuinely looking forward to Winnipeg.

    There are now two things making sure I will not get an attending membership for 2023. One is the location, the second is the choice of Lukianenko as GOH.

    I wish them luck, but they’ve certainly bounced me off.

  18. @Rich Lynch – Lukianenko was quite active in 2008 with his anti-Geogrian blog posts on his then main blog – http://doctor-livsy.livejournal.com/ which he closed but which can be read (it is in Russian but Google translate can help) on internet archive. Later he shifted to another blog – http://dr-piliulkin.livejournal.com/

    I don’t post specific posts or quotes from them because he has a lot and you may see for yourself who is this guest of honor

  19. I wish the Chengdu committee luck…they’re going to need it.

    I can easily see the Chinese government aborting this whole project.

    If there is a NASFiC the committee better have a back-up plan in mind; they might wind up being the default worldcon.

  20. Shrike58: Enough with the F.U.D. First we have to listen to the Cassandras telling us the Chinese government is piloting the bid. Now you’re going to show you’re the smartest guy in the room by predicting the Chinese government will shut it down? Next time bring receipts.

  21. While Lukianenko’s Russian nationalism might be unfortunate, he’s not the first to hold egregious political positions while being a Worldcon GoH. Discon had Toni Weisskopf as a GoH until her ties to the 6/1 attempted coup came to light. Leslie Fish was as a special guest at LoneStarCon 3. I’m sure there are plenty more examples. (At least Orson Scott Card or Marion Zimmer Bradley haven’t been Worldcon GoHs.)

    What is more disappointing to me is that their announced guests are all men.

  22. Karl-Johan Norén

    While Lukianenko’s Russian nationalism might be unfortunate, … What is more disappointing to me is that their announced guests are all men.

    The counterexamples you provided aren’t valid because Toni Weisskopf GOH was canceled, and news about private lives and opinions of both MZB and Card were after their nominations and definitely affected fandom. Lukianenko’s nationalism as you put it is like a US blogger who would intentionally use n-word and stress inferiority of other nationalities, e.g. for Georgians he often used word Rodents playing on a similarity in Russian of ??????? and ???????

  23. Hi Karl-Johan.
    Implying that Toni Weisskopf is connected to the attempted Jan. 6 coup is crossing the line, as far as I’m concerned. You better goddamn well have some very specific proof of that, if you want to be taken seriously. Being the owner of a company where some miscreants were doing ugly things in one of its message boards is not a “connection” to the coup. Conflating that to Lukianenko’s position on Russian nationalism is, in my opinion, utterly reprehensible.

  25. @ Oleksandr:
    The counterexample of Weisskopf is perfectly valid. Weisskopf’s politics were well known already in 2019, or even 2009. I found her inclusion as a GoH unfortunate given those policies in 2019, just as I find Lukianenko being a GoH unfortunate, given what you have to say about him.

    @Rich Lynch:
    I can recommend reading through the discussion about Weisskopf’s removal as a GoH.

  26. Does anyone know why so many Worldcon mail-in voters omitted their street addresses? I thought that kind of thing was standardized worldwide. A post office box is considered a valid street address, as is “General Delivery.” I don’t know why anyone would leave it blank.

  28. Karl-Johan.
    One more time, in case you didn’t hear me the first time. Weisskopf was not in any way “connected” to the Jan. 6 coup. To claim that she was is an effing lie.

    You owe her an apology.

  29. @Rich Lynch:
    Why? It’s not like she has apologised for the hate speech, the calls for violence, or the calls for murder that went on at Baen’s bar both before and after the 6/1 failed coup.

    Because Baen’s bar was very much a part of the environment that went into that coup, and she was responsible for Baen’s bar, and has refused to take that responsibility.

  30. @Jeanne
    If you’ve said that you want all contact to be email and you’ve no requirement for paper progress reports, why in the world would the convention need your address?

  31. “Does anyone know why so many Worldcon mail-in voters omitted their street addresses?”

    I don’t know. I voted by email, but that required me to print and fill out a paper ballot, scan t as a pdf, and send it by email. The pdf would contain the same info as a paper ballot cast on site.

  32. Jeanne (Sourdough) Jackson: I can’t tell you whether the explanation is accurate, but someone left a comment here saying the omission of street addresses was a tactic to prevent identity theft.

  33. Disappointing news about Lukianenko who is one of my favourite authors. This places him in the same category as everyone who supported the Iraq War. Depressing.

    I’m with Karl-Johan here.

  34. Karl-Johan, by posting your ignorant accusation of Toni Weisskopf you have easily posted the most grossly stupid thing I’ve ever read on File770. Clearly you don’t know Toni; I do. She had nothing to do with the insurrection, and posted nothing in Baen’s Bar or anywhere else condoning or supporting it. If you insist that she did, then you are a damned liar. You owe Toni a full public apology.

  35. Does anyone here have a link to any bid information for Chengdu, like hotels and convention center?

  36. Curt Phillips: Karl-Johan Norén doesn’t need to apologize for knowing the reasons Toni Weisskopf was disinvited as a DisCon III GoH.

    DisCon III condemns the violent and hostile content found within Baen Books’ forums. We also cannot condone the fact such content was enabled and allowed to ferment for so long….

    And when she brought Baen’s Bar back she defended keeping the status quo, including the posts that had caused the problem. First, from her statement:

    I’ve now had time to review the recent allegations made about Baen’s Bar, both specific and general.

    And I can say with confidence that not a one of them is justified. What I saw was a vibrant, international community of readers who enjoyed engaging with each other for civilized discourse about everything from slush to scampi, from swords to shamans. I’ve gone through hundreds of posts, though admittedly not all of the hundreds of thousands of posts that were made over the decades long history of the Bar.

    Were there posts that I disagreed with? Yes, some quite strongly. But that’s point of free speech. Were there posts which taken out of the context of the discussion they were in could be misconstrued? Yes. I did not see illegal speech even in the most heated discussions. And I did see long-time users step in to calm discussions down—which is what happens in healthy forums….

    But there are no limits on Tom Kratman posting such things as his January 8 item coaching the next stage of the insurrection. It’s still there, the one that begins —

    So where do Trump and the nation go from here?

    He needs to do three things; start his own news channel, start his own party, and start his own well-armed militia as part of the party.

    The militia – again, a _well_armed_ militia – is necessary to present a threat in being to the powers that be such that, should they use extra-, pseudo-, and quasi-legal means to try to suppress the party, the price presented will be far too high. The militia will be heavily infiltrated; this is a given. No matter; it will not be there for any purpose but to present a serious threat of major combat, and the shame of defeat, and the reality of death, to the tactical elements, police and military, that may be used against the party….

    As you know, the problem wasn’t with what she wrote herself. And everybody else here knows it, too.

  38. “Does anyone here have a link to any bid information for Chengdu, like hotels and convention center?”

    Nevermind, found it.

    Edit: Ninja’d by Karl-Johan.

  39. Anyone who is totally fine with Tank “I think violent fantasies are a personality” Marmot having his own petty kingdom on their forums is not someone I want honoured, or for that matter be stuck in a lift with.

  40. Other issues aside, isn’t enabling perhaps thousands of Chinese fans to attend a worldcon that would otherwise be inaccessible to them the very essence of the diversity and inclusion we’ve been striving for?

  41. Mr. Glyer, I’d be delighted to be wrong. But I’ve had that 1914 feeling for awhile and all the news stories regarding the behavior of the Chinese government in the last few years strikes me as that of a regime clearing the decks for a war.

  43. Hey y’all. I’m here as someone who used to live in Chengdu, and loved living there, but I have concerns about this. They’re not about a conspiracy theory, just logistics. In no particular order, and knowing I’m missing a TON of stuff that I’m just not thinking of:

    The Chinese government is not currently issuing visitor visas. Full stop, there’s that issue. If you DO manage to get a visa to go to China, you’re currently subject to three weeks of isolation quarantine at a hotel of their choice on your dime. I don’t know when they’re planning on changing that policy, but it won’t be soon. I have a friend who works at a consulate in China who isn’t even planning on leaving the country for several years because the hoops to jump through are too large.
    There are issues regarding culture and culture shock. I LOVED living in China — do not get me wrong — but there are a huge number of issues in this one, in no specific order:
    a) Where are they planning on hosting this? Is it going to be in a tech park outside the city or in downtown? If it’s in a tech park, you’re screwed for choices. English isn’t widely spoken, most signs are not in any kind of romanized characters, and you’re not going to have a lot of access to western food.
    b) plumbing. You need to be aware you cannot drink from the tap, and that you cannot flush toilet paper. The conference needs to be able to educate attendees on this.
    c) freedom of speech. China is not going to be a hospitable country for a lot of the themes discussed in sci-fi/fantasy, and some of them may even get people arrested. I’m not joking.
    3) The US consulate in Chengdu was pulled this year.
    4) The visa process isn’t going to be straight forward even if China IS open to visitors by then.

  44. Shrike58:

    “…the Chinese government in the last few years strikes me as that of a regime clearing the decks for a war.”

    I’m honestly much more scared for US starting yet another war. This is something that happens on a depressingly regular basis.

  45. Amanda: The answers for your first question can be found here.

    Also, street signs aren’t as much problem as they used to be. You can use google translate and scan signs directly. I successfully navigated South-Korea, with many of the same problems, using this way. Also, the tradition is for a bid committee to make sorts of a guide book with the most important information.

  46. @Amanda: Regarding point (a), the bidded venue is the New International Convention & Exposition Center—Chengdu Century City. (You’d probably know more about where that is than I do.)

  48. Pingback: Pixel Scroll 12/18/21 It Was Anti-Agathics All Along | File 770

  49. Congratulations to Chengdu.

    It is a fine city to visit – the Tea Houses are great for a relaxing afternoon, and visitors should seek out the mouth numbing chili fire of the signature dish Ma Po Tofu.

    It is a vain wish, but perhaps we can act like true SF fans and not split into venomous tribes attacking each other. A people are not their government after all.

    The uncertainty about the state of the world may make it hard to attend in person, but a virtual visit to such a historic event is attractive. Even so, a fast rail route now joins Laos with China, and might be an option in two years .

  50. Mike Liu, one of the Chinese fans working the Chengdu virtual table this weekend, said this about addresses (in response to the initial resolution about addresses): “Please tell them that tele-fraud is the most common crime in China. People has a Culture to protect their address details. If someone can call you by the right name, know where you live, and have your detailed address, your elder family member will be a much easier target. They can tell the old you are in trouble, need to send money to them to help you. That’s why Chinese voters commonly leave a shorter address. We already give you our name and e-mail, if you wanna check the person, you can contact them by the e-mail. That is enough information.“

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