(1) STABBY TIME. Reddit’s r/Fantasy group is voting on the winners of The 2016 Best of r/Fantasy Stabby Awards through January 11. You’re invited.
For 2016, we need you to vote!
The eligible candidates below were set by the 2016 r/Fantasy Nomination Thread and populated by r/Fantasy members. The list was locked in place this past Wednesday at 10PM Pacific.
To vote, please click the upvote arrow next to your choice or choices for ‘best of’ in each category. Yes, you can upvote more than one.
(2) STICKS THE LANDING. The New York Times’ Neil Genzlinger reviews Emerald City in “Toto, You’re Not a Basket-Size Terrier Anymore”
Dorothy, the Wizard and the rest of the Oz gang get the “Grimm” treatment as well as the grim treatment in “Emerald City,” a series beginning Friday on NBC, one that’s addictive if you allow it to be. That may, however, require some effort on your part.
You may not be conscious of just how deeply imprinted the film version of “The Wizard of Oz” is on your psyche until you watch a bit of this show, which initially seems so very wrong in every possible way. Where is the singing? Where are the psychedelic colors? So here’s what you do: At the first commercial break, pause and marvel all over again at what a spectacular achievement in artistry and cross-generational endurance the 1939 Judy Garland film is, and then let it go.
“Emerald City” has its Dorothy, engagingly played by Adria Arjona, but it draws on the full canon of L. Frank Baum’s “Oz” books (a series that continued after his death in 1919). It is partial to the dark and unsettling aspects of those tales, which it teases out and enhances with flourishes of its own. When this Dorothy lands in Oz, she’s armed, and that dog alongside her is no basket-size terrier.
The result is decidedly not a fairy tale for young children. This version of Oz has bloodshed, charred bodies, a very disturbing multiple suicide and much more. Friday’s premiere consists of two episodes, which is good, because two hours is about how long it takes you to acclimate to the tone and intent. In the third episode, a doozy, the show’s grip on you really tightens.
(3) NOT SINBAD AND NOT SHAZAAM. Kenneth R. Johnson emailed his theory about the misremembered genie movie debated in comments on yesterday’s Scroll:
I think I may have the answer to what the mysterious genie movie is that various people are mis-remembering as “Shazaam.” I distinctly remember watching a movie on TV back in the 1990s in which the genie was played by a tall black guy with dreadlocks; he also had some kind of British accent. After extensive googling I’ve identified it as “Bernard and the Genie,” a TV movie from 1991. The genie was played by British actor/comedian Lenny Henry. He may have been doing a Jamaican accent to make the genie appear pseudo-Rastafarian. The movie also has Alan Cumming and Rowan Atkinson in it. It’s very strange.
(4) BUG JACQUES BARRON. French citizens are now automatic organ donors under the law.
All French citizens are now automatic organ donors, unless they officially opt out of the program.
A new law that went into effect on Jan. 1 makes everyone an organ and tissue donor. People can opt out of the program, but they must enroll in something called the National Rejection Register in order to do so.
A low number of organ donations prompted the new rule, according to news reports.
France’s biomedicine agency said in a statement on its website that “in the name of national solidarity, the principle of presumed consent was chosen,” The World Post reported.
(5) REMEMBER THE ALICORN. Rick Riordan putting his foot down —
https://twitter.com/camphalfblood/status/817486932963954688
(6) FATE OF THE FRANCHISE. What would you do? HuffPo says “’Star Wars’ Team Grappling With How Leia Will Live On After Carrie Fisher’s Death”.
In the wake of Carrie Fisher’s death, the team responsible for future “Star Wars” projects is reportedly reconsidering the place of her character, Leia Organa, in the franchise’s ever-expanding universe, according to The Hollywood Reporter. …
Fisher, who first played the iconic princess in 1977, brought Leia back to the big screen as a general in “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” in 2015. The actress has apparently already filmed her scenes for the second installment in the latest trilogy, but was rumored to have an even larger role in the following film….
The team is reportedly concerned with two key scenes featuring Fisher that would bring her character and the film’s plot full circle: a much belated reunion between Leia and Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) and a faceoff with her son Kylo Ren (Adam Driver), who killed his father and her lover, Han Solo, in “The Force Awakens.”
Shooting for “Star Wars: Episode IX” isn’t scheduled to begin until early 2018, so until then, those at the helm are pursuing a variety of options on how to proceed. Resurrecting Fisher with CGI effects is apparently one alternative in play, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Technological advances have allowed for actors like the late Peter Cushing to return to the screen in the latest “Star Wars” offering, “Rogue One,” so Fisher could continue to have a similar presence, however limited, in future films.
The braintrust is also reportedly discussing writing the character out all together and reshooting certain scenes to lay the groundwork for her eventual exit from the franchise.
(7) BRINGING ATWOOD TO TV. The Daily Mail brings the showbiz news: “Not quite Stars Hollow! Gilmore Girls’ Alexis Bledel set to star in dystopian Handmaid’s Tale as subversive lesbian”. She’s best known for her role as Rory Gilmore in the idyllic Gilmore Girls.
But it seems Alexis Bledel’s next role will be significantly darker, as it was announced she’ll be joining Hulu’s dystopian Handmaid’s Tale, according to TV Line.
The 35-year-old actress will play the role of Ofglen in the 10 episode series, which is based on Margaret Atwood’s best-selling novel.
(8) TODAY IN HISTORY
- January 7, 1977: Michael Winner’s The Sentinel premieres in New York City.
(9) TODAY’S BIRTHDAY BOYS
- Born January 7, 1903 — Alan Napier (Alfred Pennyworth) is born in Birmingham, England.
- Born January 7, 1928 – William Peter Blatty (The Exorcist).
(10) FANTASTIC FICTION AT KGB. On January 18 the hosts of the Fantastic Fiction at KGB reading series, Ellen Datlow and Matthew Kressel, present Holly Black and Fran Wilde. The event begins at 7 p.m. in the KGB Bar (85 East 4th Street, NY — just off 2nd Ave, upstairs.)
Holly Black is a writer of bestselling contemporary dark fantasy. Some of her titles include The Spiderwick Chronicles (with Tony DiTerlizzi), The Modern Faerie Tale series, the Curse Workers series, Doll Bones, The Coldest Girl in Coldtown, the Magisterium series (with Cassandra Clare) and The Darkest Part of the Forest. She has been a a finalist for an Eisner Award, and the recipient of the Andre Norton Award, the Mythopoeic Award and a Newbery Honor.
Fran Wilde writes science fiction and fantasy. Her debut novel, Updraft, won the Andre Norton Award and the Compton Crook award, and was a Nebula nominee. Cloudbound, the second book in the Bone Universe series, came out in September 2016, and Horizon will appear in fall 2017. Her novella, “The Jewel and Her Lapidary,” was published by Tor.com publishing in May 2016. Fran’s short fiction has appeared in Asimov’s, Uncanny Magazine, Tor.com, and Beneath Ceaseless Skies.
(11) BE YOUR OWN TIME LORD. Cat Rambo tells Risingshadow readers the importance to writers of “Daily rituals”.
The thing I have learned more than anything else is that a writer must defend their time. That everyone assumes that you’re ready to take a break, come down to the coffee shop and kill a couple of hours. A friend complained to my husband that he felt as though I was timing our encounters, and I was. At the hour mark, I needed to get back to work, because otherwise I’d sit there nattering for far too long. Because you must defend that time not just from others, but from yourself and your own human tendencies toward procrastination and farting around on the Internet, while still being mindful that you do deserve a break every once in a while. You become your own manager, and that is a more difficult task than it might seem.
(12) SURVIVAL TACTICS. John Scalzi’s “10-point plan for getting creative work done in the age of Trump” is easier to understand than Christopher Priest’s.
Scalzi’s plan, published in the Los Angeles Times, was introduced to Whatever readers in these terms:
First, and in case you missed me talking about it on Twitter yesterday, I have a piece up at the LA Times site (a version of it is also in the Sunday newspaper) about getting creative work done in the Trump years — some advice about how to keep focus when it’s likely to be a challenging time for the creative class. Note that this advice generally probably also works for people working in professions generally considered “non-creative” as well, but I’m working with what I know here. Also, of course, if you’re neutral or positive on the idea of the incoming Trump administration, then this particular piece is probably unnecessary for you. Carry on, then.
One of Scalzi’s ten points is —
- Reconnect (judiciously). When you go back to the news of the world, and to social media, it’s perfectly all right to ask yourself: Is this making me happy? Is it giving me useful information? Is it inspiring me to engage in the world or does it make me want to run from it?
If it’s not helping you, let it go. Unfollow that Facebook friend passing along fake news, and block those fake news sites outright. Mute that person on Twitter who is apparently always angry. Evaluate the news sources you read and keep the ones that offer news accurately and truthfully (spin is spin, even if it’s spin you like). Design your media intake to be useful, truthful and less stressful.
As for Christopher Priest, he posted on New Year’s Eve that he’ll be moving 500 miles from Devon, England (he didn’t identify where). He spends nearly the entire post pouring out his fear and loathing of Donald Trump, yet never managing to establish any connection between the move and Trump’s election. Did he just want to insure an audience for his farewell address?
(13) LIVING IN STAR TREK TIMES. The Washington Post’s Hayley Tsukayama, in “The Big Takeaway From This Year’s CES”, concludes:
There has been no killer gadget at this year’s International CES technology show. Instead, something more subtle has emerged as the keystone of the tech world.
I’m talking about the smart, central voice assistant. Yes, even that may sound a bit old hat for those who’ve been paying attention….
Virtual assistants can now understand what you say and even interpret the many ways you may say it. Shawn DuBravac, an economist for the Consumer Technology Association, said that machines now have the same word error rate — that is, the batting average of understanding what we’ve actually said — as humans. That’s up from a 23 percent error rate in 2013, meaning that the tech is getting better, and quickly.
That fact has made the dreams of a STAR TREK-like computer come even closer to reality. The hope is that these assistants will move even beyond our sci-fi dreams and learn our habits and needs well enough to anticipate them.
David K.M. Klaus comments, “I think it’s clear that nobody connected with the program at the time thought it likely that voice-controlled devices would come into mass use in just a half-century — yet the program itself has accelerated technology design in its own direction. I started writing letters to local newspapers pointing out the inspiration when they published articles about new technology thirty years ago. (Asimov, Bradbury, Heinlein, et al. predated that, of course, but Star Trek in particular has been responsible for how it looks.) Glad to see that mundane reporters have finally caught up with me.”
(14) WATCH YOUR INTAKE. Cat Rambo shares a second bit of writerly advice at GeekMom in “Artificial inspiration”.
This phenomenon underscores the fact that authors need to pay attention to what they’re putting into their mental buckets, particularly whenever they’re working on a project. The old computer adage, “Garbage in, garbage out,” comes into play. Or turn it around and aim it in another direction: put marvelous things in, get marvelous things out.
In some ways, I think of it like learning a language. We all speak storytelling, we’ve heard it spoken around and to us in fairytales, myths, fables, and a kerjilliion other texts, down to the format of many ads. And just as, when you’re around a number of people all speaking with the same accent, that accent begins to creep into your own speech. So if you’re only hearing one kind of storytelling, all that you speak in that language of storytelling will have that accent–or flavor, or texture, or however you choose to conceptualize it.
Want to create something wonderful? Then you must read wonderful things and not just read them but study them. Take the sentences apart as carefully as a pathologist dissecting an organ and figure out how they work–and then apply that knowledge so you know you’ve got the tool down and have added it to your writerly toolkit.
(15) I’LL BE BACK. At the BBC, Frank Swain tells “Why we may be living in the future of The Running Man”.
The vision of 2017 depicted in Arnold Schwarzenegger’s 30-year-old dystopian action movie captures how our world is changing today.
In a world beset by a collapsing economy, the US media conspires with the government to keep the population in check with a combination of heavy-handed policing and a steady stream of vapid reality TV shows. Meanwhile, one of the most powerful men in the world is the host of a reality TV show.
Sound familiar? That was 2017 conjured by campy action thriller The Running Man when it was released 30 years ago.
Sci-fi commonly reveals hidden truths about society. So, it makes you wonder: what else could this dystopian vision say about the world we live in today? If we look at where we are in 2017, what can The Running Man tell us about our changing politics, media and technology?
Chip Hitchcock urges, “Note the photo of Erland van Lidth de Jeude partway through; when he was in the MIT Musical Theatre Guild we used to say that he might be the first Olympic victor to sing his own national anthem. The movies typecast him as a hulk, losing the singing voice that he used in roles ranging from Roderick Murgatroyd to Richard Henry Lee.”
[Thanks to Mark-kitteh, Andrew Porter, Cat Rambo, Chip Hitchcock, David K.M.Klaus, and John King Tarpinian for some of these stories. Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editor of the day Jack Lint.]
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@Dawn Incognito; yes, it does, but I was more wondering about the internal changes that seem to have appeared sometime in the last generation or so; what has happened that no one seems to be saying to themselves “my momma taught me to be polite no matter what the provocation”…let along sitting down at the typer for a day of “fun” trolling and dissing.
We’ve definitely lost some civility in this society. Manners and class? fugeddaboutit, deference (though not unwitting acceptance of) to authority, hell, even knowing something about what you’re talking about before opening your mouth (let alone the ability to discern bullshit when smelling it….)
I’m beginning to think that it relates more to self-centeredness than the internet – especially when we hear about unruly classrooms, “helicopter” parents (their kids never get in a scuffle engendered by hurtful words and so never have the opportunity to empathize) and the constant push by our society to “win win win – no matter the cost” are likely the fertile soil into which the internet has been dropped….
In a healthy and sane society, “fake news” would have no home (and those spewing it would be justly ridiculed); little to none of our so-called “entertainment” would have an audience (and thus no funding to drip its carrion all over us) and the dividing line between quality and trash would be much more definitive.
ETA: I’m thinking that the real issue with the internet IS its democratizing effect; before the web, most (idiots) didn’t have the means to spew their crap beyond the water cooler or loading doc. But now, like the McDOnald’s cash register with pictograms of food on it, we’ve decided that “enabling” is better than “elevating”.
The “mob”: has come home to roost and like real birds, cares not where it defecates
@ Steve Davidson
I think these things go in waves, often connected to technology that expands communication. If you want real invective, look at the insults thrown by clergy (!) during the Reformation or swift’s or Pope’s excoriations of their enemies. The courteous times i remember in my youth concerned (white) people who knew each other, and thus knew that what went around, came around, and saved rudeness for the casual insults to African Americans required by segregation.
Trolling seems to be an attempt to derail discussion, and the troll succeeds in his (usually) goal if he can get his target to respond in kind. If the troll could make arguments, he would not need to fall back on abuse. A few repeat trolls drop by here sometimes, and their spewing and frothing are kind of pitiful, especially when they elicit laughter, not rage. Seeing the conversation sweep forward while the would-be troll fulminates makes him sort of a sad crazy-uncle figure.
steve davidson on January 8, 2017 at 11:02 am said:
Because to some people, the supply of happiness in the world is a finite quantity, and they are huge believers in everything being a zero-sum game. Therefore, in their world, the only way they can be happier is to take happiness away from other people.
@Msb…yes, there is technological disruption playing into things here, but it’s not the only thing.
In re white people: I never had that privilege. When I was growing up there was still a separate check box for JEW on the forms and I was taught that civility and politeness was extended to everyone; my elementary school was racially mixed to a larger degree than most back then, I suppose….
Apparently, Scalzi upsets Airboy so much that a mere mention of him is enough to spur Airboy to an “I don’t like that guy” message.
The hooks seem to have sunk in much deeper than merely not reading a blog can cure.
Why the need to hurt?
“Some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
@Steve Davidson
Do you find that to be true in real life though?
At my current work the staples of lunch room conversation are football and politics. You see jabs and pokes but mostly they’re good natured. Manners and boundaries are well in evidence.
The Internet on the other hand can be a cess pool anywhere there is conflict. I’d posit a combination of distance, depersonalization, and relatively consequences free interaction driving it. Socialization is at least partly driven by internal empathy married with external consequences. Remove these and you get to the behavior you are observing much easier. Add the in-group echo chamber nature of the Internet and bad behavior even can become desirable. It establishes your credibility with your in-group by posturing at the other side.
A sense of community can minimize this. You don’t see the rampant taunting and hate mongering in comments here as say you do at a site like Politico. I think it’s because the core posters have a sense of personhood for their fellow posters and that entails respect. That respect leads to community policing of behavior minimizing the outrageous.
My thoughts anyways.
@Kurt Busiek: It reminds me of a few people I saw “ignoring” an ex-friend at a convention they all went to. These immature grown-ups did this by very pointedly being aware of and reacting to the person, e.g., turning away from the person, talking to people in a group and pointedly ignoring & not looking at the person if they were in the same group, etc. Ignoring by paying studious attention to the person so they could ‘ignore” them. That’s less “ignoring” and more “obsessing.”
(Okay, airboy isn’t doing it to such a degree, but it did remind me of that.)
@Steve Davidson I think there have always been people who took pleasure in saying things that hurt other people. What kept them in check was the fact that sometimes people will answer a sufficient verbal provocation with fists or bullets, not words. On the Internet, though, words are the only possible response (with few exceptions) so they go unchecked.
For this reason, when a conversation about politics or religion got out of hand in the real world, the rest of the group would force a change of topic before things could get violent. Your friends would try to cool you down, and the other guy’s friends would try to cool him down. But on the Internet, the group just piles on, and your friends join your attack.
I don’t know how we ever resolve this. My own approach is that I try to engage people civilly when possible, and I just walk away when that becomes impossible. I can’t claim it works all that well, though.
@Nancy Sauer: interesting to know. From what I’ve read, Catholicism (at least in the US) opposes cremation because of the belief in corporeal resurrection; have I missed something, and if not how do they resolve giving up a vital part of the body?
@Doctor Science: it would be interesting to see whether there is support for your hypothesis; e.g., was there a roll-call vote in I-forget-what-the-legislature-is-called-in-France? I have my doubts, but France is certainly showing signs of strain in dealing with the non-traditional.
@Mark (Kitteh) & anyone else: Another short story by Benjamin C. Kinney* that I recommend (in addition to the two Mark mentioned) is Shiplight.
* ETA: Fixed an auto-correct idiocy that put in “King” when I was trying to type Kinney.
@Chip Hitchcock–
In a word, yes.
In a few more words, although not encouraged, cremation has been allowed by the Catholic Church since 1963.
http://www.ccaw.org/about_cremation.html
Organ donations:
What is the Church’s view on organ transplants?
The body must be treated with dignity, but charitable acts are encouraged.
@Chip Hitchcock: Lis Carey beat me to the punch with the citations (thank you, Lis!), so I won’t repeat what she’s posted. I would like to add that I’ve always felt that arguments against organ donation based on the corporeal resurrection were theologically weak. If one expects God to bodily resurrect those who were buried so long ago they have rotted back into earth, or who were lost at sea and eaten by fishes, why would replacing my cornea/liver/etc be a problem for Him?
Re Catholicism, cremation, and organ donation: my parents, both practicing Catholics to the end of their lives, donated their bodies to the University of Iowa medical school. Neither their family nor their pastor had any problems with this. Their bodies were cremated once the med students were done with them; last I heard their ashes were in a cupboard at one of my sister’s house.
The night before my father’s funeral, my older sister and I got to talking about how, while my father would plant flowers if my mother asked for them, his real love was the vegetable garden. The result was a quick trip to Hy-Vee, and a basket of bright veggies among the floral arrangements.
The night before my father’s funeral, my older sister and I got to talking about how, while my father would plant flowers if my mother asked for them, his real love was the vegetable garden. The result was a quick trip to Hy-Vee, and a basket of bright veggies among the floral arrangements.
When my mom died last October, we put a package of spice drops and a can of Pepsi in with her. It made those of us in the know smile a bit and tear up at the same time.
@ Mark – Well, I can’t say that it’s always spectacular, but yes, it’s a tradition now, starting back with Sigrid Ellis’s stint as editor. If I write anything with a weird Americana feel during the year, I send it to Apex and if they like it, they buy it and run it in January.
I’m not a very prolific short story writer, unfortunately–maybe two a year and some flash fiction–so this year was kinda funny, because in late October they were all “Do you have a thing for us?” and I had about two thirds of Dark Birds at the time and I said “I can finish a thing but it’s really dark, and also it’s a novelette? I think? do you want to see what I’ve got and see if it’s going somewhere you want?” and they said “We trust you!” and I’m like “No, you Really Really have to read this one first!” Fortunately they liked it, because even by my admittedly skewed standards, that one’s a little dark.
@ Steve Davidson
Context is a funny thing. When I was growing up in the South in all-white schools populated by various types of Protestants, I knew one Catholic, but the largest minority group comprised Jews. My Jewish friends were numerous and all smarter than I, so I was amazed to discover anti-semitism in history class and a casual remark by my grandfather (who regularly made mortifying racist remarks about people of color, despite everything we kids said to him). Race was such a huge issue that the Lieutenant Governor of our state dropped by when our high school was integrated by the arrival of one (1) black girl (among nearly 3000 kids). Even then, I had managed to gain the impression that everybody who wasn’t African American was “white”, leading to a number of further surprises as I began to realize the privilege in which I had grown up. As Molly Irvins wrote, once you saw how they were lying to you about race, you started to see everything else they were lying about.
Though I can imagine Kylo Ren getting into a yelling match with a tennis ball on a stick, whether a character gets CGIed over it or not.
Concerning (4) :
1. The new law is probably not as severe as it sounds on the sole basis of those report, especially in the latest version. In particular, it seems that in practice, relatives will still have much power to oppose donation based on their knowledge of the deceased opinion on the matter. But it is true that the “charge of proof” will be reversed, a point I expect to have an important pychological impact. Like usual in such matters, the actual practice will be the main matter.
2. French catholics are in average, of a more liberal brand that can be found in many places, including in the USA. I have never seen organ donation being a subject of debate among the community, and I have been involved in many catholic groups or organization of various sensibility other the years.On the current law, the “Bishop’s Coference of France” was opposed to the first version of the text (but so was the Order of Doctors). They got much mollifed by a modification which clarified the role of family’s consent.
Official catholic doctrine is that donation is accepted, even encouraged, if consented by the donor and remains non-commercial.
3. I have been following this debate, which I personally find very interesting, from France. It is not making the headlines, which might explain debates remain cold-headed, even in the current tense political context. At no point, the position of concerned religious group have been a key topic. Neither through the – ludicrous – claim that this law objective could be to jab at those groups, or by religious groups taking the lead in the contestation. There is actually plenty enough people to discuss those matter on a non-religious basis. It might be a weakness of the current debate if key concerns are not taken in proper considerations, but it is certainly better then this project being a disguised hate law.
4. Claiming that a law true objective could be to harass a certain community is a harsh judgement, that to me requires to be substantiated before being played with in careless manner. I find ironic that some would like to defend diversity partially on the basis of what sounds to me as prejudice on what the french “state of mind” could be.
Christopher Priest says he is moving 800 km from Devon in the aftermath of the Brexit vote – Scotland is going to be embroiled in brexit/independence debates for the next several years.
If it was me, I would not be heading to Scotland, but somewhere ending in -ac in south-central France.
The internets anomity allows for two types of behaviour, usually not seen face-to.face:
Trolling/Bullying – since you could “get away with it” and normally dont have to face consequences (apart of perhaps being banned somewhere, which usually is even difficult to enforce. Just change name and email). Like school-bullies that allows the troll to think he is clever and/or witty to overcompensate for other failures (social problems most likely).
Preaching – unless you are involved with the same bunch of people (like here on File770) you normally dont know anything about the others except what they write.So they become abstract entities of a certain policy (for example). People dont think of the “opponent” in an online debate as humans (*) but only of enemy targets, like in a computer game. So they dont behave towards them as they usually would face to face. If puppyboy thinks of Writer A only as “SJW”, wirter A becomes the label for him – he most probably doesnt know face or voice or height or statue of the other person, usually markers to identify a human being. Take that away and its easy to remove social contracts from thought. Especially when people you agree with tell you its OK to do so.
(*Technically they know of course that the other side is human, but subconsciously its not present).
@Niall McAuley: That’s also very likely!
(perhaps more so. idk)
Soooo…..someone who is not a citizen of the U.S. Obviously is ineligible to vote in our elections. Is not subject to our laws.
And yet finds the U.S. to be some sort of motivating factor when it comes to relocating…within his own country!
That’s some grade “A” virtue signaling right there.
Regards,
Dann
@Dann
That’s a classic example of how “virtue signalling” has become a meaningless insult tossed out as a form of (wait for it…) virtue signalling of its own. It’s right up there with “safe spaces” and “special snowflakes” as attacks now deployed on both sides purely for their insult value.
Further, do you deny someone the right to comment on what’s happening in a country other than their own? Have you never in your life said anything about a European country? Do you never look at the news and think that something is a worrying indication of human nature, no matter whether it is over an artificial border?
That’s some grade “A” virtue signaling right there.
No its not. Which virtue is he signalling exactly? If you dont like non-americans criticise Americas choice of president, you should probably lock up you internet acess codes for thext couple of years.
Also: What Mark said.
Who here believes that Trump taking power won’t affect people outside of the USA? We’re still a 3,000 pound gorilla in the room, and having our head taken over by a smaller gorilla is bound to have some impact.
(It’s gorillas all the way down.)
@Kip W
Yup. An obvious example is the impact of the UK’s traditional levels of support for a lot of US foreign policy, up to and including military actions – some of which are ongoing.
Dann: That’s some grade “A” virtue signaling right there.
That is so incredibly offensive.
Every time one of you Puppies uses that phrase, what you are really saying is that the person you are targeting with it couldn’t possibly have a genuine opinion about the subject in question, that they are expressing an opinion simply to cull favor with others.
Which is bullshit.
I’ve become convinced that this is like so many other things with the Puppies: they complain that other people are rigging awards, because that’s what they would do (and did). They complain that other people make decisions about fiction based on politics, rather than quality, because that’s what they do. They complain that other people are “virtue-signalling”, because that’s what they do.
You want people to agree that you have the agency to have your own genuine opinions. Why don’t you start showing other people the same respect for a change?
“Gorillas all the way down” is such a great way to put it, Kip lol
ETA: Well said, JJ.
The internet also allows for a much greater gathering of like minds than was previously available, and more in real time. A lot of the time this is a good thing: groups like File770, for example. A good chunk of the early anime fandom organized over the Internet, as did furry fandom, and many other smaller fandoms where people might have been unlikely to meet someone who shared their particular interests within a day’s driving distance.
And then you get the cesspits where the haters gather to egg each other on, and ‘counting coup’ by getting people angry at you is how you keep score. Even if you have to misinterpret getting banned from a site as if it were ‘making people lose it’ to improve your score amongst your fellows.
The Internet is amazing at community building. It just doesn’t discriminate much on what types of communities get built.
@dann: I’m from a country that touts its “special relationship” with the US and backs a lot of its insane bullshit seemingly without question. I was in Taiwan when Trump and their government conspired to stick a finger up China’s nose. Now I’m in South Korea which has a US military presence thanks to North Korea across the border.
Like it or not, the dumbshit-in-chief you guys elected has a lot of power in a lot of places in the world and I think it’s only right for the rest of us to be worried and nervous about what he and the dregs of humanity he’s putting into his cabinet might be capable of, whether or not we’re allowed to vote in your elections.
@Oneiros — maybe this isn’t the message I should be taking from your post, but is there some way in which you think things would be better if the U.S. wasn’t in South Korea?
@Bill–
Do you really think the people of South Korea and surrounding countries can seriously be expected to regard having someone who can be baited with a tweet, who goes on Twitter rants because someone criticized him in public, as a positive addition to the stability of of their region?
Regardless Having the US there with Trump at the helmet is not really interchangeable with having the US there with any recent previous US President because none of them acted with such ignorance and casual disregard for whether they were stabilizing or destabilizing the region, and they learned from their mistakes rather than blindly insisting they weren’t mistakes.
@Mark
Sure. Overuse can render a word meaningless.
Sort of like when non-Hitler GW Bush was called Hitler. Or when really non-Hitler Mitt Romney was implied to be Hitler. Or when non-racist, non-sexist, non-homophobe critics of my current President were called racists, sexists, and homophobes and a couple other things for having the temerity to suggest that his policies may not reflect the greatest amount of prudence and wisdom.
——-
In general, I don’t mind criticism of my country. Nor do I mind criticism of my President…regardless of party.
I don’t see any criticism in his post. I see a lot of “Trump!” vaguely (a charitable description) connected with a decision to move a distance that is trivial with respect to America’s significant influence in the world. In reality, such a move would be more accurately motivated by the need for better employment, a better standard of living, or perhaps to get away from a location that is turning sour. Things that would not have changed appreciably had any other candidate won the election.
So criticism? Sure. Fire away. Just actually have some criticism to offer. Don’t just offer mindless over-emotion.
Regards,
Dann
I guess that quote is some sort of evil signaling. To show basic distrust of other human beings and also heap scorn on anyone that seem to behave in some kind of virtuous manner.
Sort of like when non-Hitler GW Bush was called Hitler.
Sure, some fringe people called Bush Hitler. On the other hand, some fringe people have called Obama Hitler as well as numerous other insults.
Or when really non-Hitler Mitt Romney was implied to be Hitler.
So not even calling someone Hitler is an out of bounds insult?
Or when non-racist, non-sexist, non-homophobe critics of my current President were called racists, sexists, and homophobes
Citation needed.
@Dann
You’ve not actually addressed my point, just moved onto a different set of criticisms of Priest. I won’t be addressing those, because I now have no reason to believe you’ll address those either.
@Lis — whether or not South Korea would be better off with someone other than Trump is a different question altogether.*
The question I asked of Oneiros was if he thought South Korea would be better off without the United States as an on-site ally.
*I presume the alternative you see to Trump is Hillary Clinton, the warmonger who advocated U.S. intervention in the former Yugoslavia in the early 1990s; who voted to invade Iraq; on whose watch as Sec State the U.S. sent hundreds of drone strikes into Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia without declarations of war against those states; who strongly advocated an undeclared war in Libya, creating a failed state; who wanted the U.S. to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria, risking direct confrontation with Russia; and who proposed a drone strike against Julian Assange. Yes, this is the U.S. president who would bring stability to the Korean peninsula.
I presume the alternative you see to Trump is Hillary Clinton
Yes, because I don’t deal in bullshit caricatures of political decisions as you apparently do. Every time I use a computer that doesn’t have Stylish on it and I see a comment from you, I am reminded why I have you whited out on the ones that do.
@Bill–
No, sorry. Oneiros and others aren’t responding in recent commentary on Trump’s election to the idea of US presence in Korea. The current comments you apparently find inappropriate or unwelcome are reactions specifically to Trump’s election and his erratic, irresponsible behavior. Who is President of the United States of America is absolutely a matter of direct and immediate interest to Koreans,Japanese, Taiwanese, and people all over not just southeast Asia, and they are going to comment on it. And no, they’re not going to care whether you think they’re entitled to be commenting on it, either.
Also let’s not forget that South Korea and Japan are both big car and electronics manufacturing countries. And Trump has threatened high import tariffs on anything not manufactured by real American workers in the US, because apparently US jobs are more important than other people’s jobs. So you can see why South Korea and Japan might not be big fans of Trump.
@Bill: The question isn’t even in the locality of the point I was making. South Korea has never been fond of the US, and there has pretty much always been tension and anti-US sentiment around the fact that they feel it necessary to have US military based there, along with the incidents and protests that go along with that. Occasionally all that is exacerbated by dumb shit that happens (like the time the US army dumped 20 gallons of formaldehyde into the river) and suddenly there’s a major national reason for the people to protest about the continuing US involvement. If Trump is involved in any way with something like that, do you think he’ll make the situation better or worse by being the thin-skinned little rage monkey that he’s so far proven himself to be?
@Mark
Essentially, I disagree with your attempt to shift the focus of the discussion away from whether or not the OP was offering some sort of legitimate criticism and/or whether or not the move, as described, is an appropriately scaled response to a foreign election*.
Regards,
Dann
*The above average influence of American politics being already acknowledged.
@Dann
Cleverly played, but people can actually scroll up the page, you know?
@Dann: I still dont know which virtue was signaled.
@Lis @Bill–
No, sorry.
“No, sorry”??? I reject your attempt to tell me what questions I get to ask.
comments you apparently find inappropriate . . . And no, they’re not going to care whether you think they’re entitled to be commenting on it, either.
I haven’t expressed any opinion as to what other people are entitled to say (unlike yourself, see above), or the appropriateness thereof. Oneiros said something, I wasn’t sure what he was getting at, and I asked for explanation. That is the sum of our exchange to that point.
Once again, you are are jumping to conclusions about me (wrongly), and recasting my posts into something they aren’t.
@Cora because apparently US jobs are more important than other people’s jobs. Well, duh. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work? In Germany, are Portuguese jobs more important to Angela Merkel than German jobs?
One of the reasons that Trump got elected is that a big swath of America sees that good middle class jobs have disappeared from this country, and have appeared elsewhere. Trump has said he will bring them back. I strongly doubt he will be as effective at this as he said he would be, and in general, I think free trade and open markets are a good thing, but he sees it as his mandate to do something about this. While it is in the best interests of the US to have prosperous allies, it isn’t the job of the US president to protect the jobs of foreign countries.
@Oneiros — thanks for the direct answer. I figured this was where you were coming from, but now it is clear. I have no idea as to whether Trump will improve or degrade US – SK relations, but I think it will be far more dependent on the actions of the insane psycho man running North Korea than it will be on the tweets from Trump. I hope things don’t go in a direction that makes SK believe it will be better off without US soldiers stationed there, because Trump may well be of a mindset: “You want us to leave? Fine, we’re gone.” And ten minutes later after they turn off the lights and leave, artillery starts falling from the North.
Again, Bill, people can scroll back up.
Also, the unhinged guy tweeting from the White House will be a lot scarier to most of the world than the unhinged guy in North Korea, because he’s got a lot more nukes and much greater capacity for delivering them. Granted, for his immediate neighbors against whom he has a long list of imagined grudges, the unhinged guy in North Korea may be the more immediate concern, even now.
@Bill: Yeah, I’m kind of worried about Trump’s tendency to make explosive decisions like that. I really hope it doesn’t happen, or at least not like that. I don’t think it’s likely that he would (be allowed to) make that decision though; it’s just a worry that he might voice his opinions on the matter quite publicly and I doubt that will do anything to calm anyone down.
@Bill
As a matter of fact, the Merkel governments so far have been far less proactive about saving failing companies and big employers than the preceding Schröder government. During Merkel’s tenure, only a couple of “too big to fail” banks and carmaker Opel, which is ironically owned by GM and got in trouble because of GM’s failures, were saved by government intervention, while plenty of other high-profile bankruptcies were allowed to go ahead. And while there was an uproar about a cellphone manufacturer shifting operations from Germany to cheaper Romania a few years ago, intervention attempts were mostly at the state rather than national level.
And while the employment rate has been rising throughout Angela Merkel’s tenure and is currently at a twenty-five year high, Merkel is very much in favour of free trade, unlike Trump.
Never mind that Trump’s protectionist policies won’t work. Low-skilled manufacturing jobs which require little education and offer high wages are largely gone in western world and won’t be coming back. There are ways to keep manufacturing jobs going even in high wage western countries – and note that Germany has a lot of manufacturing jobs with good wages – but Trump-style protectionism is not it.
@Cora
What are those ways, in your opinion?