A lot of material out there because of the Hugo voting deadline tomorrow but if you want more than the three items I included in today’s Scroll then Google is your friend.
(1) Today in History!
1932: Walt Disney released his first color cartoon, “Flowers and Trees,” made in three-color Technicolor.
1976: NASA released the famous “Face on Mars” photo, taken by Viking 1
Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter image by its HiRISE camera of the “Face on Mars”. Viking Orbiter image inset in bottom right corner.
(2) And Today’s Birthday Boy and Girl – what a coincidence!
Born 1965: J. K. Rowling
Born: Harry Potter (main character of Harry Potter series)
(3) “The Tom-cademy Awards: The Only Awards Show Exclusively for Tom Cruise Movies” is part of a weeklong Cruise-themed series on Grantland. The author anoints Emily Blunt as the Best Supporting Actress of any Cruise movie.
The wonderful thing about EoT is that it’s really funny. It achieves that by not pretending the audience has never seen a time-travel movie. Instead, Edge of Tomorrow claps the audience firmly on the shoulder and, smiling, asks (rhetorically), “Hey, wanna see Tom Cruise get iced?” And, as it turns out, watching The Character Named Tom Cruise getting killed in fun and interesting ways, ways that show just enough exposed cranium to make the exercise mean something, is pretty invigorating.
But! Do we not, paradoxically, also want to see The Character Named Tom Cruise succeed? To save the world and get the girl? Yeah, of course we do. This is Tom Cruise we’re talking about. And it’s Blunt, playing it straight the whole time while kicking a Ripley-in-Aliens level of xenomorph butt, who has to downshift from hero-on-a-recruiting-poster to woman-who-we-kind-of-want-to-see-kiss-Tom-Cruise in order to make Cage’s journey from charming coward to soldier/love interest believable. He’s the hero we deserve, that we also need to see die.
Genre films Minority Report (Best Visual Effects) and Interview With The Vampire (Best Costume Design) also take home the hardware.
(4) Janis Ian, who now writes in the sf field, has her own Bill Cosby story from when she was a teenager preparing to sing her hit song on The Smothers Brothers show in 1967.
“No, I was not sexually bothered by Bill Cosby,” said Ian in a Facebook post Tuesday, reacting to a New York magazine report featuring 35 women who accuse Cosby of sexual impropriety.
In her post, Ian accused Cosby of publicly outing her as a lesbian, based on a chance meeting backstage at a television show.
“Cosby was right in one thing. I am gay. Or bi, if you prefer, since I dearly loved the two men I lived with over the years. My tilt is toward women, though, and he was right about that.”
(5) On to tamer subjects – the Worldcon business meeting. Kevin Standlee hopes to discourage complaints while rewarding the reader’s attention with a good discussion of why meetings adopt Roberts Rules or the equivalent:
The reason that parliamentary procedure is complex is that it’s trying to balance a bunch of contradictory rights. If you’re someone who is convinced that your personal, individual right to speak for as long as you want and as many times at you want trumps the rights of the group to be able to finish the discussion and reach a decision in a reasonable time, well, it’s unlikely that you’ll ever be happy with any rules that allow for limits on debate. If you’re someone who has no patience with debate and just wants the Strong Man to Make Decisions, you’ll never be pleased with rules that allow for people to debate and reach a group decision through voting….
And he invites your help to improve how WSFS meetings are run.
WSFS rules are complicated because the people who attend the meetings have effectively voted for complexity, but also because some of the complexity is required to protect the rights of members, both individually and in groups, and including the members who aren’t even at the meeting. If you have a better way for deciding how we should run things, the onus is on you to propose something. As long as you just complain that “it’s too complicated,” without proposing something both easier and workable, don’t expect to be taken seriously.
(6 ) Russell Blackford on Metamagician and the Hellfire Club delivers “The Hugo Awards – 2015 – Summation”.
Even if there is a legitimate grain of truth somewhere amongst the complaints of the Sad Puppies group, their actions have led to an exceptionally weak Hugo field this year and to some specific perverse outcomes. If the Sad Puppies campaigners merely thought that there is a “usual suspects” tendency in recent Hugo nomination lists, and that politically conservative authors are often overlooked in recent times, they could have simply argued their case based on evidence. Likewise, they could have taken far wiser, far more moderate – far less destructive – actions to identify some genuinely outstanding works that might otherwise have been missed. What we saw this year, with politicised voting on an unprecedented scale, approached the level of sabotaging the awards. I repeat my hope that the Sad Puppies campaign will not take place next year, at least in anything like the same form. If it does, my attitude will definitely harden. I’ve been rather mild about the Sad Puppies affair compared to many others in SF fandom, and I think I can justify that, but enough is enough.
I really can’t understand how Blackford processes the ethics of the 2015 situation, this being the third go-round for Sad Puppies, that “enough” had not happened already to warrant a stronger expression of his disapproval, but a fourth iteration will.
(7) The shortest “fisking” in history — Larry Correia strikes back at Sad Puppies references in The New Yorker’s Delany interview The boldfaced sentences below are literally 66% of what he had to say.
The ensuing controversy has been described, by Jeet Heer in the New Republic, as “a cultural war over diversity,” since the Sad Puppies, in their pushback against perceived liberals and experimental writers, seem to favor the work of white men.
Diversity my ass. Last years winners were like a dozen white liberals and one Asian liberal and they hailed that as a huge win for diversity.
Delany said he was dismayed by all this, but not surprised. “The context changes,” he told me, “but the rhetoric remains the same.”
Well, that’s a stupid conclusion.
Alert the bugler to blow “Taps” over the fallen standards of Correia fisks….
(8) Cheryl Morgan tells fans don’t give up.
Look, there will be some weird stuff in the results this year. There may well be a few No Awards given out, and possibly some really bad works winning awards. It is not as if that hasn’t happened before, though perhaps not in the same quantities. On the other hand, people are talking about the Hugos much more this year than they ever have before, and in many more high profile places. In addition vastly more people have bought supporting memberships, and we are looking at a record number of people participating in the final ballot. All of those people will be eligible to nominate next year. This isn’t the way I would have liked to get that result, but it is a result all the same.
for the first time EVER, I just voted for the Hugo Awards. I suspect it would have been fun any other year.
— MamaDeb (@_mamadeb) July 30, 2015
(9) John Scalzi realized he would have a more restful day if instead of discussing the Hugos he spent his time doing computer maintenance.
Windows 10 71% downloaded. Horrible gulping, weeping sounds coming from the basement. I mean, more than usual.
— John Scalzi (@scalzi) July 29, 2015
[Thanks to Martin Morse Wooster, David K.M. Klaus and John King Tarpinian for some of these stories. Title credit to File 770 contributing editor Soon Lee.]
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How does it go? “I’m just the ideas man, somebody else should do the work…”
@Kyra – I’m sorry! It’s SOOOO good! I read it on the plane to Botswana and badgered my husband into buying it on his Kindle and he stayed up late reading it with hyenas prowling around outside the tent. (Not that we realized they were hyenas. They sound like cheerful owls when they aren’t upset and doing the whoop-cackle thing.)
@Kyra: Right there with you. Started reading The Girl With All The Gifts just last night. A very good friend of mine told me to read it, and instructed me to learn absolutely nothing about it before I did.
Couldn’t be happier that I took her advice. It’s fun going into a book like that knowing nothing at all, not even the shelf I could expect to find it on in the bookstore.
@paul – oh, I meant engaging Brian. I mean, we all take our turns, it’s just meant as moral support.
He won’t go over there, but he’ll probably deploy wounded innocence at the suggestion, because he SAID he was against slates, what more do we WANT does he have to insult Vox Day to appease our ravening groupthink oh woe, woe, EPH woe.
Etc. May you fare better than I!
Forehead cloths! Getcher nice cool forehead cloths here! Avoid the rush when the next bracket comes out! Dry handkerchiefs and medicinal ethanol also available, but only if you Act Now! But wait! If you order in the next hour, we’ll throw in an Angsty Song of YOUR CHOICE.
With that commercial announcement out of the way, here are my votes. And I think I speak for all of us when I say that when this is over, I really, really want to see a gif of Kyra, her dice, and a sledgehammer having a meaningful moment together.
1. The Silent Tower, Barbara Hambly
2. The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
3. Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart
4. War for the Oaks, Emma Bull
5. Taran Wanderer, Lloyd Alexander
6. Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
7. Tea with the Black Dragon, R. A. MacAvoy
8. Tigana, Guy Gavriel Kay
9. Fire and Hemlock, Diana Wynne Jones
10. Watership Down, Richard Adams
11. The Princess Bride, William Goldman
12. Magic’s Price, Mercedes Lackey
13. The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
14. The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
15. The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
16. Silverlock, John Myers Myers
(I’ll have you know I wrote in BOTH of the candidates in this pairing. Cruel, cruel dice)
17. Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
18. The Dragon Waiting, John M. Ford
It doesn’t take a lot of analysis to tell what sort of person MZW is. He’s an asshole, full stop. No matter how much Brian Z whinges about it.
I have finalized my vote. I stuck with my decision to No Award above every puppy-slated work to strongly reject the tactic of bloc voting.
Aside from a couple of nominated works and people, I would have voted the same if I based it entirely on quality. The Puppies’ complaint against the Hugos overlooking excellence was not helped by the near-total lack of it on their slates. Their campaign was just about logrolling and making liberals mad. It wasn’t about conservative writers getting awards for great work.
If they were capable of shame or self-evaluation the Puppies would tear down their doghouse instead of vowing to do this again next year.
@rochrist: “It doesn’t take a lot of analysis to tell what sort of person MZW is. He’s an asshole, full stop.”
I will grant that he’s an amiable one in person, and his daughter’s nice.
Rev. Bob, re: <strong> and <b> — yes, that’s it exactly. Strong is bolded for me; <b> is not. Thanks for sorting out my confusion.
Cally: I’ll have one order of “I Am A Rock; I Am An Island” by Simon and Garfunkle, please. Best angsty hiding-in-my-room-pouting song *ever*.
Bloodstone75
The bare bones of Lord of Light is a spaceship unable to leave a planet which has sentient beings who once had physical bodies, and still desire some aspects of those bodies.
War between the humans stranded on the planet and those entities was thus more or less inevitable; it was fought by the crew of the ship, who go on to dominate not only the Rakshasa but also the passengers on the ship, who may interbreed with crew members but lack power to obtain the fruits of civilisation freely available to the elite group.
Much of the book is devoted to the attempts of some of those with power to share that power with others as well; I’m having trouble following why this is thought to be a Bad Thing, as exemplified by some criticisms of the book.
And whilst Sam, one of the original mission crew, wanted all people, crew and passengers, to take their rightful place, together, a lot of the oldest humans really didn’t like the idea…
@Stevie
Yes, exactly!
Okay, I finally remembered to check in and vote.
1. EVERYONE LOVES AN ECCENTRIC WIZARD
The Once and Future King, T. H. White
Tough choice, but I’ll go with Merlin.
2. FROM YOUR SMALL HOME TOWN TO THE GREAT BEYOND
The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
I loved the characters so much in that.
3. ADVENTURERS TWO
Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart
Another tough choice, but Master Li and Number 10 Ox win for me.
4. OF COURSE YOU REALIZE THIS MEANS WAR
War for the Oaks, Emma Bull
I live in Minnesota. I recognize the locations.
5. SERIOUSLY TARAN WHAT’S UP SHOULD WE SEND HELP
Taran Wanderer, Lloyd Alexander
Fantasy vs Horror, Fantasy wins.
6. ONE DAY YOU WAKE UP AND EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT
Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
Fond memories of reading that.
7. TEA AND CACOASTRUM
To Reign in Hell, Steven Brust
Tea with the Black Dragon, R. A. MacAvoy
Abstain
8. 1990 VS. 1999
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, J. K. Rowling
The value of chocolate!
9. TALES OF THE SUBTLE FAE
Fire and Hemlock, Diana Wynne Jones
DWJ every time.
10. GRAND ADVENTURES
Watership Down, Richard Adams
Tough decision, but bunny mythology wins out.
11. TI-JEANNE VS. BUTTERCUP
Brown Girl in the Ring, Nalo Hopkinson
The Princess Bride, William Goldman
Abstain.
12. LOVE WILL TEAR US APART
Magic’s Price, Mercedes Lackey
13. EVERYTHING SLOWLY GOING DOWNHILL
The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
I read that when I was young, and I still remember Vance’s world.
14. LEARNING THAT YOU’RE UNHAPPY
The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
15. I CAN’T REMEMBER WHO I AM
The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
The unicorn’s memory loss was so sad.
16. ACROSS THE SCOPE OF HISTORY
Little, Big, John Crowley
Silverlock, John Myers Myers
Abstain
17. VICTORY BY DROPPING STUFF ON PEOPLE’S HEADS
The Hero and the Crown, Robin McKinley
Definitely McKinley.
18. STRANGE DOINGS UP AT THE CASTLE
Gormenghast, by Mervyn Peake
The Dragon Waiting, John M. Ford
Abstain
Hey, Brian–you’re welcome at my “Everybody Else” Worldcon afterparty. It not be much more than a barstool, but we’ll talk Daniel Webster, prophets, and baseball and thank the stars we’re not alone since we probably deserve to be. (Actually, everyone’s welcome to the Everybody Else party, though by definition it tends to be a small group.)
This is going to be bloody carnage.
1. EVERYONE LOVES AN ECCENTRIC WIZARD
The Silent Tower, Barbara Hambly
The Once and Future King, T. H. White
2. FROM YOUR SMALL HOME TOWN TO THE GREAT BEYOND
The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
Stardust, Neil Gaman
3. ADVENTURERS TWO
Two Sought Adventure, Fritz Leiber
Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart
4. OF COURSE YOU REALIZE THIS MEANS WAR
A Game of Thrones, George R. R. Martin
War for the Oaks, Emma Bull
5. SERIOUSLY TARAN WHAT’S UP SHOULD WE SEND HELP
Taran Wanderer, Lloyd Alexander
Dracula, Bram Stoker
6. ONE DAY YOU WAKE UP AND EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT
Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
The Metamorphosis, Franz Kafka
7. TEA AND CACOASTRUM
To Reign in Hell, Steven Brust
Tea with the Black Dragon, R. A. MacAvoy
8. 1990 VS. 1999
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, J. K. Rowling
Tigana, Guy Gavriel Kay
9. TALES OF THE SUBTLE FAE
Fire and Hemlock, Diana Wynne Jones
Lud-in-the-Mist, Hope Mirrlees
10. GRAND ADVENTURES
Watership Down, Richard Adams
The Sword of Conan, Robert E. Howard
11. TI-JEANNE VS. BUTTERCUP
Brown Girl in the Ring, Nalo Hopkinson
The Princess Bride, William Goldman
12. LOVE WILL TEAR US APART
The Golden Compass/Northern Lights, Phillip Pullman
Magic’s Price, Mercedes Lackey
13. EVERYTHING SLOWLY GOING DOWNHILL
One Hundred Years of Solitude, Gabriel Garcia Marquez
The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
14. LEARNING THAT YOU’RE UNHAPPY
The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
The King of Elfland’s Daughter, Lord Dunsany
15. I CAN’T REMEMBER WHO I AM
The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
Soldier of the Mist, Gene Wolfe
16. ACROSS THE SCOPE OF HISTORY
Little, Big, John Crowley
Silverlock, John Myers Myers
17. VICTORY BY DROPPING STUFF ON PEOPLE’S HEADS
The Hero and the Crown, Robin McKinley
Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
18. STRANGE DOINGS UP AT THE CASTLE
Gormenghast, by Mervyn Peake
The Dragon Waiting, John M. Ford
Now that voting is done (is it? It’s Saturday morning here), looks like Larry Correia has heeded Mike’s disappointment in his lacklustre prior fisking effort, and decided to reach for glories previously achieved by fisking a recent Guardian article. In addition to the usual round of victim blaming (you made us do it!), it also contains what is perhaps the Best Qoute Evah!
Just a note in case it affects any bracket business — today’s Scroll will be up shortly before midnight Pacfic time. I just finished the Martine-Barnes obituary and will be away from the computer for awhile.
4. Martin
I loved Game of Thrones. The series on the other hand…. Can we have a bracket for strongly opening, complex sagas that trickle out into a thousand rivulets a few books in? Call it the reverse river effect. First nominees: Martin and Jordan.
6. Zelazny
Of course there weren’t five aces in the deck. Would I cheat? I mean, against a bug?!? You think so, REALLY?!? No, I’m not rolling up my sleeves. I have nothing to prove…
10. Adams
Conan versus rabbits? No contest. For the doubters, need I remind you:
http://youtu.be/TnOdAT6H94s
@Stoic
I applaud your choice of video clippings
@snowcrash: (Correia’s latest fisk)
If that fisk proves nothing else, it shows that Correia writes decent fiction if you turn your brain off and don’t look too closely at the big plot holes. (“Look, TBP’s a finalist!” Yeah, no thanks to the Puppies, whose slating campaigns shoved it off the initial ballot. You don’t get to take credit for TBP’s presence after fighting tooth and nail to deny it a place, Larry!)
Oh, wait… it doesn’t prove anything else. It’s typical Puppy crap: full of sound and fury, and signifying absolutely nothing.
Fans get to judge books by the content of their pages rather than the author’s bio. Then give the really good ones awards.
Yes, and I expect 2015 will be a banner year for ‘Noah Ward’ – thanks pups for all the quality work on the short list this year.
I would love to see a full throated defense of what was nominated that explains why these particular works were so good. It’s been almost 4 months and crickets from the nominators and originators of the slates about why these works were so wonderful. Then I read them, and I understood.
@Shambles: “I would love to see a full throated defense of what was nominated that explains why these particular works were so good.”
Non-Puppies don’t like them. To a Puppy, that makes them good. It’s that simple. Their goal was splodey-heads, these choices gave them splodey-heads, mission accomplished.
Or, since you wanted “a full throated defense,” my approximation: “YOU SJWS HATE THEM!”
Yes, I really do think they’re that childish. Go skim Correia’s latest bucket of bilge if you need evidence, and check out the comments below it if you want more. Anyone who can excoriate Tor.com for running a column on gender diversity, whine about how gender-diverse fiction is by definition message fiction, and then claim he doesn’t care about gender is… well, I’m not sure whether “hypocritical” or “comically blind” is the better choice. I would say “bald-faced liar,” except I believe he still has facial hair.
Compleat Fantasy Bracket (Round 1-The Bloodletting) my choices:
Dice are evil, wicked things. I forced myself to make choices early on, or seven or eight brackets would have been tied.
1)-The Once and Future King. One of the few “easy” choices.
2)-AARGH! (get used to that) Riddle-Master of Hed, by a sliver of a hair.
3)-MAMMOTH AAAARGH! Ti-no, CHOOSE! Two Sought Adventure (forgive me, Master Li).
4)-War For the Oaks. GRRM will probably win, but had to pick the Bull, because I think it’s a better book.
5)-Haven’t read both books, so I abstain.
6)-Nine Princes in Amber, the Kafka is a classic, but I love the first five Amber books, particularly the first one.
7)-Tea With the Black Dragon (with small aaargh), because I’ve given people copies of the MacAvoy insisting they read it, which I haven’t done with the Brust.
8)-Tigana, because the Potter books aren’t all that well-written. Rowling’s personal story interests me far more than the plot of her series does.
9)-Haven’t read both, so I abstain.
10)-AAARGH! Sword of Conan, just barely, by a hare.
11)-(SUPER MAMMOTH AARGH!!!) TI-NO, CHOOSE!!! Brown Girl In the Ring, just barely, so get used to disappointment.
12-Read both, not sufficiently impressed by either to care, so I abstain.
13)-(teeny squeak) The Dying Earth, though the Marquez is objectively a better novel.
14)-Tombs of Atuan, because I like it more.
15)-NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TIE! I CAN”T PICK!!!
16)-DOUBLE NO!!!!!! I’ve given copies of both to others, urging them to read this! (flings dice airborne and fires double-barreled blast, disintegrating them). TIE!!!!!!
17)-Haven’t read the Prachett, so I abstain.
18)-The Dragon Waiting, because I like it more than I do Gormenghast.
The smiling face of Irene Gallo popped up on my Facebook wall today, and it reminded me that Theodore Beale, Peter Grant and some other toolbags wanted to destroy her career to score political points and get attention for themselves.
I’m happy to say it looks like they didn’t make a dent in Gallo’s career. She’s frequently promoting cool Tor projects and art and appears to be busy.
1. EVERYONE LOVES AN ECCENTRIC WIZARD
The Once and Future King, T. H. White
2. FROM YOUR SMALL HOME TOWN TO THE GREAT BEYOND
The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
Stardust, Neil Gaiman. The version with Vess.
3. ADVENTURERS TWO
Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart
6. ONE DAY YOU WAKE UP AND EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT
Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
9. TALES OF THE SUBTLE FAE
Lud-in-the-Mist, Hope Mirrlees
10. GRAND ADVENTURES
The Sword of Conan, Robert E. Howard
12. LOVE WILL TEAR US APART
The Golden Compass/Northern Lights, Phillip Pullman
15. I CAN’T REMEMBER WHO I AM
Soldier of the Mist, Gene Wolfe
17. VICTORY BY DROPPING STUFF ON PEOPLE’S HEADS
Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
18. STRANGE DOINGS UP AT THE CASTLE
The Dragon Waiting, John M. Ford
@Rev Bob
You made me snort loudly at ‘splodey-heads’.
It really does remind me of road trips as a child where I would try to figure out how to make my older sister irritated. Any reaction was a victory and the goal itself.
For the gamers out there
Metamorphosis Alpha Epsilon City is live on KS
The Hobby Shop Dungeon is also live on KS
ObSF: Metamorphosis Alpha is an RPG about life on board a generation ship first published in the 70s.
Did I hit send on this already? I thought I did, then I noticed this was just sitting in the comments window ready to go.
THE COMPLEAT FANTASY BRACKET, FIRST ROUND (THE BIG ONE)
1. EVERYONE LOVES AN ECCENTRIC WIZARD
The Silent Tower, Barbara Hambly
The Once and Future King, T. H. White
Abstain. Hambly is on the list, though.
2. FROM YOUR SMALL HOME TOWN TO THE GREAT BEYOND
The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
Stardust, Neil Gaman
McKillip.
@rrede: I like Gaiman, but I’ve never figured out why he’s a ROCK STAR.
3. ADVENTURERS TWO
Two Sought Adventure, Fritz Leiber
Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart
Hughart by a nose.
4. OF COURSE YOU REALIZE THIS MEANS WAR
A Game of Thrones, George R. R. Martin
War for the Oaks, Emma Bull
Abstain. I have a copy of the Bull book that I AM SO TOO GOING TO READ SOMEDAY.
5. SERIOUSLY TARAN WHAT’S UP SHOULD WE SEND HELP
Taran Wanderer, Lloyd Alexander
Dracula, Bram Stoker
Abstain. I am… not sure if I’ve read Lloyd Alexander.
6. ONE DAY YOU WAKE UP AND EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT
Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
The Metamorphosis, Franz Kafka
I loved Amber, but I can’t vote against Kafka. Kafka it is.
7. TEA AND CACOASTRUM
To Reign in Hell, Steven Brust
Tea with the Black Dragon, R. A. MacAvoy
Abstain. Haven’t read either.
8. 1990 VS. 1999
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, J. K. Rowling
Tigana, Guy Gavriel Kay
Kay. K?
9. TALES OF THE SUBTLE FAE
Fire and Hemlock, Diana Wynne Jones
Lud-in-the-Mist, Hope Mirrlees
Abstain. I loved Lud-in-the-Mist but I have Ms. Jones on hold at the library.
10. GRAND ADVENTURES
Watership Down, Richard Adams
The Sword of Conan, Robert E. Howard
Conan!
11. TI-JEANNE VS. BUTTERCUP
Brown Girl in the Ring, Nalo Hopkinson
The Princess Bride, William Goldman
Abstain. Brown Girl in the Ring is also on hold.
12. LOVE WILL TEAR US APART
The Golden Compass/Northern Lights, Phillip Pullman
Magic’s Price, Mercedes Lackey
Abstain. Haven’t read either.
13. EVERYTHING SLOWLY GOING DOWNHILL
One Hundred Years of Solitude, Gabriel Garcia Marquez
The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
Garcia Marquez. The Dying Earth was brilliant but deeply flawed.
14. LEARNING THAT YOU’RE UNHAPPY
The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
The King of Elfland’s Daughter, Lord Dunsany
Abstain.
15. I CAN’T REMEMBER WHO I AM
The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
Soldier of the Mist, Gene Wolfe
Wolfe.
16. ACROSS THE SCOPE OF HISTORY
Little, Big, John Crowley
Silverlock, John Myers Myers
Crowley.
17. VICTORY BY DROPPING STUFF ON PEOPLE’S HEADS
The Hero and the Crown, Robin McKinley
Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
Abstain. I hate to admit this, but I read The Color of Magic and just never got any further, you know?
18. STRANGE DOINGS UP AT THE CASTLE
Gormenghast, by Mervyn Peake
The Dragon Waiting, John M. Ford
Abstain.
Mike Glyer:
Yes, but when we do the short story bracket, “The Fog Horn” is going to win.
For some reason I don’t entirely understand myself, I don’t mind playing the mustachioed villain in this drama.
Look. As some of you deduced, I’m most worried for the novelettes and the fan writing, which I think are the life blood of the genre. (I suspect it maybe be already too late for Best Fan Artist, sadly.)
To say that a reform of the system won’t work for Best Short Story, Novelette, etc., because the system is already broken is not much of a justification. If so, address the fragmentation of the readership, of which the slates are one (dumb, mean-spirited) manifestation.
Here are my recommendations, ranked in order of preference:
1. Work toward reconciliation. Stop playing “us” vs. “them,” demonizing, projecting your fears, or ascribing the worst traits of a few people onto every person on “the other side.”
2. Failing that, do nothing. Everybody (!) could try to stop heaping vitriol for six months or so, take a deep breath, then reassemble. If you’d like to have a task force study possible changes and report back, invite a wide range of community members to join it. (I hate to put anybody on the spot, but I’d nominate Russell Blackford. Or how about one of the puppies attending Worldcon? According to his bio, Ken Burnside is a “purveyor of recreational mathematics” – and he is able to see both sides.)
3. Failing that, if you are not satisfied without ramming a knee-jerk solution through the business meeting without first building real consensus, propose a longlist.
Make it a serious one: start voting as early as possible, have a nice long period for us all to read excerpts from and argue about ten or fifteen things instead of five (which we are clearly willing to do!), then winnow down to five and have a short second stage at the end. It is inclusive. It is a lot of extra work for everybody. It asks the community to come together to have a sustained, serious conversation about a diverse range of things. Let’s do it. Look at us, running a fantasy bracket! We’re up for a challenge.
4. Failing that, pass whatever you want to pass if it makes you happy. But at least acknowledge that for all you know some of the Puppies are probably nice people in person and you are glad they seem to have had a good time at Libertycon.
5. No Award.
Come on, people. This is not rocket science. You can do it!
@Brian Z
1. You first. (See how far that gets you.)
2. Well, it’s worked fine so far.
3. No.
4. Thanks for your consent.
5. Ick. If I must.
@ Brian – What have been your favorite novelettes recently?
@Brian Z: I’m gonna place the question I’d like answered on its own line, then further explain it. The only question I have, and therefore the only one I care to have addressed, will be bolded.
What is the problem with having a more robust, less exploitable system for voting?
Wouldn’t that be more likely to bring people together? As long as it’s easy to game the system, wouldn’t opposing sides rather do that than reconcile? It could even happen eventually, if no technical fix were to be put in place, that some extremist group of CHORFing SJWs would actually attempt an anti-puppy slate, were this stupid, one-sided “war” to continue unabated. At least then Torgersen, Correia and friends would finally be able to honestly feel justified in their hurt feelings, and VD and his buds would be totally stoked, but I don’t think anyone here sees that as ideal or at all good.
@BrianZ Re: 1-5
This is an Internet comment section. Anything posted here is a single person’s opinion. Attempting to enforce order or consensus here is tilting at windmills in my opinion.
I find whack-a-mole boring. I think the Hugo’s are beloved and will survive and flourish.
Brian: what, exactly, do you think “fan writing” is, and why do you think it’s in decline compared to, say, the 1990s? Be specific.
In brief: the Chinese ones. The single most constructive thing we could do – and posthumanity will surely thank us – is submit a proposal for a Best Translator Hugo to gin up some more competition for reigning middleweight champion Ken Liu.
(The second most constructive thing we could do would be to kickstart Dangerous Visions, starting with the ones we haven’t read yet.)
@Brian Z:
You really think that’s what you’re doing? Here’s a tip: The guy in the funny-looking hat with bells on it isn’t the villain. He’s the fool. You appear to have confused the two roles.
There are two problems with that idea. First, reconciliation takes two sides, and this shitstorm only has one: the Puppies. There is no “other side” that can discuss anything with them. Oh, there are plenty of people who object to what the Puppies have done, but we’re independent individuals, not an organized side. Second, even if there were – if, say, GRRM stepped up as King High Spokesman for the Anti-Puppy Brigade and the assorted non-Puppies agreed to recognize him – the Puppies have neither the credibility to be taken seriously nor the desire to come to the table. They are arsonists out to destroy what they cannot earn, not architects who wish to build something better.
Remember what JCW’s idea of “compromise” is, what Correia’s mission statement for SP2 was, and pretty much everything VD has said about why he organized RP1. They have as much interest in “working things out” as Big Brother had in having a heart-to-heart chat with Goldstein: none whatsoever. That doomed your plaintive cries for reconciliation before you ever voiced them, and that is why people here keep replying with the same two words: You first. If you’re not willing to put any effort into it, why should anyone else?
Oh, wait. I know this one. Because you’re a Puppy, and you are talking to “the other side” by posting here. (What, did you think you were fooling anyone?)
Feel free to keep cavorting and capering about, though. Voting closes in just a couple of hours.
I’m going to answer Kathodus and then preemptively apologize to everyone else who I can’t answer individually without bringing down the wrath of Glyer – sorry, but I’m sure I’ll be commenting later, so I’ll try to address your concerns then.
I don’t think ensuring that a slate can take up three or four slots on the ballot in many important categories is any kind of a solution. And I think sending the message that if your group organizes a bloc vote you deserve to get something on the ballot is wrong, and could easily spiral out of control (look where we are already) and destroy the spirit of the award.
But as I’ve said before, for all I know some “puppies” might well like this solution – you can ask them to vote for it if you want.
[RUBBER STAMP BRIAN RESPONSE]
Hey Brian, are you going to reply to Oneiros’ question or are you going to keep hand-wringing and trying to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)?
Also: EPH was never a silver bullet but it’s better than no rule change.
[/RUBBER STAMP BRIAN RESPONSE]
ETA: Has it occurred to you that you haven’t seen Xanatos himself speak out against EPH? Why not?
Come on, people. This is not rocket science. You can do it!
You’re the one who keeps whining about how we aren’t doing it right. Now you’re whining because we’re doing it our way, not yours. (And definitely not VD’s.)
Which ones specifically did you like? Any recommendations for a particularly exemplary one to start with?
I was deeply unimpressed by the original run of Dangerous Visions/Again Dangerous Visions–that’s not how you make cheese!–so can’t say I’ve got any interest in funding another round.
@Brian Z
I don’t think ensuring that a slate can take up three or four slots on the ballot in many important categories is any kind of a solution
Whereas you’re fine with a slate taking up ALL the spots on the ballot in as many categories as they like, which is nearly what happened this year save that some Puppy picks withdrew or were disqualified, and still happened in half the fiction categories.
It’s by no means settled that EPH guarantees the slaters four to five picks in the least popular categories, since participation has increased each year since the one felice ran that little simulation against.
But let’s say it does. Let’s say that Puppies get four slots on next year’s ballot, and the remaining slot goes to…the single most popular story among everyone else who voted.
So, what are the voters’ options that year? Four pieces of Puppy crap, No Award, or the single most loved story among the Worldcon membership at large, slate voters excepted.
In the end, who this works out worst for are the Puppies and everyone else they kept off the ballot.
Brian Z.: I don’t think ensuring that a slate can take up three or four slots on the ballot in many important categories is any kind of a solution. And I think sending the message that if your group organizes a bloc vote you deserve to get something on the ballot is wrong, and could easily spiral out of control (look where we are already) and destroy the spirit of the award.
I do think that ensuring that a slate can not take up an entire category is a solution.
I do think that sending the message that if your group organizes a bloc vote, you will not be able to monopolize the ballot is right.
I do think that ensuring that slates are not able to monopolize the ballot does help maintain the spirit of the award.
EPH does all that. EPH is not perfect, but it is a good solution. A “longlist”, which would direct and coerce voter nominations, is not a good solution.
Didn’t Kate Paulk say whatever Sad Puppies 4 does next year, there won’t be a slate?
Of course, Sad Puppies are irrelevant. There’s no reason Vox couldn’t do the opposite of what he did this year: Slash the Puppies’ list of recommendations down to 5 for each category, substituting Castalia House entries wherever he feels it appropriate.
Why is Larry Correia ranting about Damien Walter when commenting on a column written by Adam Roberts? Okay, so reading comprehension probably isn’t his strong point and he really seems to hate Damien Walter, but he’s still ranting at the wrong person.
It’s also funny that Larry Correia was furious when someone at the Guardian, I think it actually was Damien Walter, called him “a little known author” (which he is in Europe, since Baen Books are not readily available here) and yet he claims he’s never heard of Adam Roberts.
Richard Brandt at 10:29 pm:
It’s a second-hand account, i.e. hearsay, but I agree; it’s really the Beale/Rabid Puppies that were effective in getting works onto the Hugo ballot.
Time is nearly up to get your Hugo vote in.
https://youtu.be/9jK-NcRmVcw
That’s right — watch out lest I wax wroth!
Tell Roth to wax Jennings for a while!
@Soon Lee
It’s a second-hand account, i.e. hearsay, but I agree; it’s really the Beale/Rabid Puppies that were effective in getting works onto the Hugo ballot.
It will be interesting to see what the Novel category would have looked like without RB input, since the one Sad Puppy pick that Beale dropped from his slate didn’t make the ballot, even after two candidates withdrew or declined and made room for Three Body Problem and…a title to be named later. (Even the combined backing of Sad and Rabid curs wasn’t enough to keep one non-slated work from making the ballot, withdrawals or no.)
Short Story might have looked much the same, since when Annie Bellet withdrew the replacement was a Sad Puppy pick. (Neither of the two Sad picks that Beale discarded made the ballot until this happened.)
Hey! Kyra! Wait! Waaaaait! I wanna change my vote!
17. VICTORY BY DROPPING STUFF ON PEOPLE’S HEADS
The Hero and the Crown, Robin McKinley
Small Gods, Terry PratchettNo, wait- Small Gods really is my favorite. Change it back.
No! Hero and the Crown! I’ve reread it more! Definitely McKinley!
No, no, wait that’s all wrong. Pratchett!
Argh, change that- McKinley!
No wait- Pratchett is-
NO! MCKINLEY, DAMN IT!
Wait-
ARRRRRRRGH!!
The Hero and the Crown, Robin McKinley AND THAT’S FINAL!
…I’m not sure I’m going to survive the next round.