Pixel Scroll 8/1 Scroll forth, my song, like the rushing river

Ten stories, three videos and a partridge in a pear tree.

(1) It’s a privilege to be included in this Sasquan program item:

Writing About Controversies

M. J. Locke [Laura Mixon] , John Scalzi , Mike Glyer , William Frank (Moderator) , Eric Flint

Since before the Great Exclusion Act of 1939, the science-fiction community has had its share of controversies, feuds and flame wars — between pros, between fans, between pros and fans. Maybe more than its share. Discussion about these controversies — whether in fanzines or online — has often generated more heat than light.  How can we research and write about controversial issues in the field? Is it ever possible to just stick to the facts?  Panelists talk about what they’ve learned about how to approach these issues.

August 23, 3:00 p.m., CC – Bays 111A

(2) Fraser Cain discusses what would happen if a black hole met an antimatter black hole.

Here’s the part you care about. When equal amounts of matter and antimatter collide, they are annihilated. But not disappeared or canceled out. They’re converted into pure energy.

As Einstein explained to us, mass and energy are just different aspects of the same thing. You can turn mass into energy, and you can turn energy into mass.

Black holes turn everything, both matter and energy, into more black hole.

Imagine a regular flavor and an antimatter flavor black hole with the same mass slamming together. The two would be annihilated and turn into pure energy.

Of course, the gravity of a black hole is so immense that nothing, not even light can escape. So all energy would just be turned instantaneously into more black hole. Want more black hole? Put things into the black hole.

Cain says if this is your rescue plan in case you fall into a black hole, you’re out of luck.

(3) You may need a break after science-ing the shit out of that last item. Here’s the comic relief.

[Bill] Nye recently read some unflattering tweets in support of a Kickstarter campaign for a documentary about him, which, to be honest, we kind of hope just turns out to be two more hours of tweets.

 

(4) Ken Liu’s novel Grace of Kings is available from the Kindle Store for $1.99 today, as I learned from SF Signal. So far I’ve only read his short fiction. Now I’m diving into his novels.

(5) I listened to five minutes of the Superversive Hugo livestream today, long enough to hear a male voice opine that No Award will not win any of the categories. And I thought to myself, that kind of boldly contrarian thinking is exactly what a livestream panel needs to pull an audience.

(6) Talk about a dog’s breakfast…

(7) Tempest Bradford has a modest proposal.

Does she mean that literally, or is this another case where an idea suffers because it can’t be fully unpacked in a tweet? Think of all the minority/marginalized groups cishet white men belong to. Religious minorities. People with disabilities. Participants in 12 Step programs. (Do I need to say that I have seen convention panels involving each of these topics?) This rule needs to go back to the drawing board.

(8) August 2 is National Ice Cream Sandwich Day.

The modern version of the ice cream sandwich was invented by Jerry Newberg in 1945 when he was selling ice cream at Forbes Field.  There are pictures from the early 1900?s, “On the beach, Atlantic City”, that show Ice Cream Sandwiches were popular and sold for 1 cent each.

And here is the ObSF ice cream sandwich content.

c_c_sandwich_1

(9) I think it’s rather sad that the person who took the trouble of setting up this robotic tweet generator doesn’t know how to spell Torgersen.

(10) File 770’s unofficial motto is “It’s always news to someone.” The Hollywood Reporter must feel the same way. Capitalizing on the imminent release of Fantastic Four, THR just ran a story about the first (1994) movie adaptation of the comic produced by Roger Corman.

If you haven’t seen the movie that’s not because it was a box office bust. It was never allowed to get anywhere near the box office. Sony exec Avi Arad ended up destroying every available print.

Here’s the trailer, uploaded to YouTube in 2006.

[Thanks to John King Tarpinian for some of these stories. Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editor of the day Anna Nimmhaus.]

262 thoughts on “Pixel Scroll 8/1 Scroll forth, my song, like the rushing river

  1. 1. EDUCATION
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett

    3. MATURATION
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    6. GENERATION
    Silverlock, John Myers Myers (arguing that the “new purchase” and the subplot of trying to be a Maker puts it into Generation)

    #4 was hardest for me to do this time around.

  2. Kyra on August 2, 2015 at 5:51 am said:
    Would it be helpful to people if I posted a Compleat List of what has already been in the bracket?

    Yes please! And since the Dean is ineligible, please change my Generation vote back to Swordspoint. Thank you!

  3. RE: Fantastic Four
    We (Skiffy and Fanty) watched the movie for Torture Cinema.

    Frankly, I think that this movie, for all of its flaws and problems, is going to feel “more” Fantastic-Four like than the one coming out this summer. It’s not a good comic book movie, but it knows what it is.

  4. Mike Glyer said:

    She could have said that if she wanted. But that’s not what she said in that tweet.

    What you want Tempest to have tweeted looks like quite a bit more than 140 characters to me. I don’t think it would have fit.

    And how would being disqualified only from moderating only those panels that are about minorities in fandom disqualify you from participating in fanac? It looks like she suggests that a very tiny amount of fanac should be reserved for people who can’t be you but that doesn’t really strike me as quite the same thing.

    When we consider disadvantaged groups that include straight white men, there are certainly a few: disabled people, people with mental illness, people with learning disorders and so on. As far as I can see these groups all include women and minorities also. If we actually followed Tempest’s rule (not that she has any power to make it so, but if fandom generally decided it was a good idea and chose to do so) straight white men could be *on* such panels–they just wouldn’t be invited to moderate them which would mean there was at least one spot for a woman or minority member who (one hopes) shares that disability. That kind of strikes me as a good idea, actually.

    I hope I have shown why I don’t agree with you on this, and why Tempest’s suggestion seems like a reasonable idea to me, and perhaps why other people might think so too.

  5. Argh. No good outcome out of this bracket. I too have to work nearly every day this month. So I will be brief and vote with my genre heart.

    1. McKillip
    2. Pratchett
    3. Le Guin
    4. Both, but if I must choose Zelazny
    5. Hughart
    6. I will think on this and vote later

  6. 7) Well, it seems we have yet another entry for a little game called: “Social Justice Warrior or Stormfront?”

    “Here’s a rule for conventions going forward: for panels abt [one group of people], moderators CANNOT be [another group of people]”

    And those of you who agreed with the above tweet, congratulations, you are now officially both racist and sexist, and when summed up in just one handy word: bigot.

    A moderator is supposed to remain both neutral and objective. Requirements that are not defined by one’s gender, sexual orientation, or even skin colour. Not to mention how it is incredibly easy to argue that whatever transpires between two or more consenting adults, is no bussiness of anyone but those directly involved.

    But should such terribly bigoted rules ever pass; ‘a white-cis-male’ can always claim to be ‘sapiosexual’ – one who finds intelligence the most sexually attractive feature – and any criticism towards an individual’s right to self identify their own sexuality; would be open discrimination towards sexual minorities.

    Now, sure it is polite to say that this rule suggestion should go back to the drawing board, but if we are realistic, it would be better it if wounded up in the paper shredded instead.

  7. Tuomas Vainio —

    And those of you who agreed with the above tweet, congratulations, you are now officially both racist and sexist, and when summed up in just one handy word: bigot.

    Fuck off, Tuomas, there’s a good chap. Come back when you can cope with nuance.

  8. Bye Tuomas

    Come back when you can cope with nuance.

    Or at least when he’s read someone else’s review that contains one…

  9. 6. Choose the first not eliminated by eligibility rules
    Wagner/Bloodstone, Anderson/Three Hearts and Three Lions, Cook/Black Company, Blaylock/Elfin Ship, Volsky/Illusion, Cooper/Dark Is Rising, Powers/Drawing of the Dark, Tappen/Islandia, Moon/Sheepfarmer’s Daughter, Gentle/Ash

  10. THE RULES:
    (1) Lord of the Rings gets an automatic victory; it may be brought in to fight against the winner in a Final Fantasy Bracket Boss Fight.
    (2) Children’s fantasy is considered to be a separate genre and is ineligible; “YA” fantasy books are allowed; judgment calls will be made on borderline cases.
    (3) Short story collections containing stories that are linked or connected by character, plot, or setting are allowed; collections of unconnected stories are not.
    (4) No books published after 1999.
    (5) No author may have more than one work on the ballot.

    THE COMPLEAT LIST OF WHAT HAS BEEN ON THE BRACKET (IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER BY AUTHOR)

    Watership Down, Richard Adams
    Taran Wanderer, Lloyd Alexander
    Imajica, Clive Barker
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    The Face in the Frost, John Bellairs
    Daughter of the Blood, Anne Bishop
    The Mists of Avalon, Marion Zimmer Bradley
    The Master and Margarita, Mikhail Bulgakov
    War for the Oaks, Emma Bull
    To Reign in Hell, Steven Brust
    Jurgen, James Branch Cabell
    Fortress in the Eye of Time, C. J. Cherryh
    Little, Big, John Crowley
    Tam Lin, Pamela Dean
    Land of Unreason, L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt
    The Newford Stories, Charles de Lint
    Lord Foul’s Bane, Stephen R. Donaldson
    The King of Elfland’s Daughter, Lord Dunsany
    The Worm Ouroboros, E. R. Eddison
    The Dragon Waiting, John M. Ford
    Stardust, Neil Gaiman
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman
    The Silent Tower, Barbara Hambly
    (Robin Hobb: see Megan Lindholm)
    God Stalk, P. C. Hodgell
    Mythago Wood, Robert Holdstock
    Brown Girl in the Ring, Nalo Hopkinson
    The Sword of Conan, Robert E. Howard
    Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart
    Fire and Hemlock, Diana Wynne Jones
    The Metamorphosis, Franz Kafka
    Tigana, Guy Gavriel Kay
    Daggerspell, Katharine Kerr
    Wizard and Glass, Stephen King
    Deryni Rising, Katherine Kurtz
    Magic’s Price, Mercedes Lackey
    Night’s Master, Tanith Lee
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    Two Sought Adventure, Fritz Leiber
    Wizard of the Pigeons, Megan Lindholm
    The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, H. P. Lovecraft
    The Night Watch, Sergei Lukyanenko
    Tea with the Black Dragon, R. A. MacAvoy
    Phantastes, George MacDonald
    One Hundred Years of Solitude, Gabriel Garcia Marquez
    A Game of Thrones, George R. R. Martin
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    The Hero and the Crown, Robin McKinley
    Lud-in-the-Mist, Hope Mirrlees
    Elric of Melniboné, Michael Moorcock
    Jirel of Joiry, C. L. Moore
    Silverlock, John Myers Myers
    Witch World, Andre Norton
    Gormenghast, Mervyn Peake
    The Darkangel, Meredith Ann Pierce
    (Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett: see Lord Dunsany)
    The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym, Edgar Allan Poe
    The Anubis Gates, Tim Powers
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    The Golden Compass/Northern Lights, Phillip Pullman
    Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, J. K. Rowling
    The Crystal Cave, Mary Stewart
    Dracula, Bram Stoker
    The Iron Dragon’s Daughter, Michael Swanwick
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
    The Old Gods Waken, Manly Wade Wellman
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White
    The Wood Wife, Terri Windling
    Soldier of the Mist, Gene Wolfe
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

  11. 2. EXPLORATION
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    3. MATURATION
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    6. GENERATION
    The King of Ireland’s Son, Padraic Colum

  12. 1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
    Damnit, Kyra, for making me choose between them.
    Ahem
    Tie.

    5. RESTORATION
    I have voted against both of these works in the previous rounds.
    Abstain.

  13. 1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    Tie. Also, bite me, Kyra.

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart

    6. GENERATION
    (Free bracket)
    Swordspoint ,by Ellen Kushner

    It made my heart go pitter-patter then, and it makes my heart go pitter-patter now.

  14. 1. Goldman

    2. Pratchett

    3. . Le Guin

    4. Vance

    5. Hughart

    6. The Third Policeman by Flann O’Brien

  15. I realized after posting that the King of Ireland’s Son doesn’t qualify as a children’s fantasy. Please substitute Avram Davidson, The Island under the Earth, because Davidson should be on the list somewhere. Sorry.

  16. @Mike Glyer
    There is a day for ice cream sandwiches, I did not know ! …. resolves trip to store later today to observe this important day of appreciation

    ETA. Davidson is a glaring omission, there are so many good writers we have not even covered. I keep saying, argh how did I forget that one ?

  17. It’s only a popularity contest, it’s only a popularity contest…

    1. EDUCATION
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    3. MATURATION
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    6. GENERATION
    A Princess of Mars, Edgar Rice Burroughs

  18. Tuomas Vainio — Okay, a more considered response. Nobody with a gram of sense is going to take a single 140-character tweet as a publication of theses nailed to the cathedral door, to be followed absolutely or not at all.

    What the rest of us are arguing about is how to avoid the Willingham error. Since it is not given to mere mortals to truly know what lies in the hearts of our fellow mortals, one has to muddle through as best one can with the heuristics and algorithms one accumulates through life. And as one of those guidelines, among many, that one can consider, “No cis-het male mods on diversity panels” may actually be a pretty good first rule when assigning mods or attending panels. In any reasonably rational person, it would, of course, be considered in balance with other rules, guidelines, and worthy exceptions.

    It’s interesting to note that if the Willingham fallacy — Do we want the best or do we just want representation? — were applied retroactively to that panel, it would have failed, since Willingham clearly was not the best choice for moderation. I wouldn’t have found that behaviour acceptable directed at any group at any panel on any subject. On a panel about female representation in the comics industry it was only a success if considered as the worst possible of bad examples.

    I know positive discrimination makes for splodey heads among certain parts of the political spectrum, but it’s an expediency when the social discourse is dominated by worse rules along the lines of “No voice belonging to non-cis-het-white-males should be uninterrupted”.

    Was Bradford’s tweet completely right? No, but neither was it completely wrong. It is certainly deserving of criticism, which is what we — me, Mike, and everybody else here commenting except you — are offering. So.

  19. Tuomas:

    The fact that English is not your first language is not a problem. There are numerous people here who fall into that category, including Hampus, snowcrash, and Johan.

    The difference is that they all make a point of ensuring that they clearly understand what it is to which they are responding, and they respond articulately and on-point — while you… with every post you make here, make it quite clear that you can’t be bothered to make sure that you actually understand the content to which you are responding.

    The end result is that you repeatedly make yourself look incredibly foolish, by responding to something quite different than what was actually posted.

    Seriously, dude — have some pride. Actually read the post to which you’re responding — several times — and make sure that you actually understand it before writing a response.

  20. Surprisingly, today’s bracket is relatively anguish-free!

    1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    I’m hoping for an all-Le Guin final battle.

    4. DESOLATION
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    6. GENERATION
    Evangeline Walton, The Children of Llyr (OR The Island of the Mighty, I really can’t choose).

  21. Shall we bracket by the river?

    1. EDUCATION
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    Bunnies are cute and fluffy.

    3. MATURATION
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

    This matchup gives me a little tristesse, but Amber has been a much bigger part of my life, and I’ve reread the (only) five-book series several times.

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    6. GENERATION
    The Broken Sword, Poul Anderson.

    This is where it happens, people! We can rectify the greatest oversight in our history.

  22. @Mike: I think your reaction to the KTB tweet exemplifies a pretty classic case of White Fragility. The people pointing out that even at Maximum Bradford there’s still plenty of fanac for the likes of you and me are correct.

  23. 1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    Abstain.

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett

    Bye bye bunnies.

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    Abstain here.

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

    5. RESTORATION
    Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart

    6. GENERATION
    The Black Company. I can’t believe I didn’t think to push this one before. While the sequels lose it somewhat, the opening book is brilliant. For example, there’s something about Cook’s evocative use of names to build his world that impresses me.

  24. It might help to bear in mind that moderating is a learned skill, and the assumption that particular groups of people automatically possess that learned skill is inevitably going to result in debacles of the Willingham variety.

    In other words, Willingham was appointed by positive discrimination; no-one notices that positive discrimination for much the same reasons that puppidum doesn’t notice politics it agrees with.

    For a successful discussion the moderator needs both the skill sets of moderating and informed knowledge of the topic under discussion; as far as I can tell Willingham possessed neither, yet he was appointed anyway. Perhaps if people stopped positively discriminating in favour of straight white guys panels might be more useful, and more enjoyable for all concerned…

  25. 1. The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip

    3. The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin

  26. 1. The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. Small Gods, Terry Pratchett

    3. The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin

    4. Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

    5. Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart

    6. The Third Policeman, Flann O’Brien

  27. 1. EDUCATION
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin

    4. DESOLATION
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance
    (ouch)

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    (ouch)

    6. GENERATION
    The Mask of the Sorcerer by Darrell Schweitzer.

  28. The Writing About Controversies panel should be interesting, but I can’t help but notice that every panelist on it has generally been reasonable about it all. You might want to actually consider adding someone who has been a grade-A nimrod to give it some needed balance.

  29. Two brief stories:

    Long ago and far away, I went to my first con as a GoH. I did not come up in fandom, so I had not only never actually been on a panel before, I had never ATTENDED a panel before, and I didn’t know what to expect. I had very little experience speaking in public–I was there on the strength of my art.

    I looked at my badge and I was the moderator.

    I was left trying to balance a wild-eyed woman who believed that we all possessed the Divine Spark of Creativity, and a small press publisher who apparently feared that if he stopped talking, communists would storm the room and take his pants for the worker’s collective. It was an exquisitely awful hour.

    I suspect that no thought at all went into my panel and it was likely assembled with a spreadsheet by a groggy volunteer. I suspect many panels are assembled the same way. It would perhaps be sensible to flag panels that require more careful handling for someone to actually sit and think about what they’re doing rather that just plugging in who is free and who said they’d moderate a panel on the checklist. But not everyone’s gotten the memo yet. And given that it is the Century of the Anchovy, there is increasingly little excuse for that.

    The other, with regards to Willingham, was a small amusement only. When I was at the Hugo pre-party in 2012, I said, to multiple people, of the Graphic Story category, “I know Howard’s here, Hill isn’t…Willingham is supposed to be here, but I haven’t met him yet…”

    The number of people who coughed, muttered into their drink, or flatly said “Lucky you,” leads me to believe that this is a known pattern of behavior.

    (I said, “oh dear. Well, Howard’s lovely,” and everyone agreed. Howard IS lovely, and I would be on a panel with him any day.)

  30. The number of people who coughed, muttered into their drink, or flatly said “Lucky you,” leads me to believe that this is a known pattern of behavior.

    Anyone with that sort of known pattern of behavior doesn’t belong on any panel, much less moderating one. Assembling programing is more than just filling in holes in spreadsheets

  31. In the first critical monograph on Robert A. Heinlein’s work, Alexei Panshin wrote the following defense of science fiction (defense meaning that he wanted it taken seriously as a genre of LITERATURE, especially Heinlein’s work).

    Science Fiction [places] familiar things in unfamiliar contexts and unfamiliar things in familiar contexts, thereby yielding fresh insight and perspective. . . . the familiar seen with the unfamiliar illuminates.

    Ask the question seriously: what if a spaceship full of men with not a woman aboard were to return from the first human trip to the stars and find the Earth destroyed? How would they react? Ask the question seriously, as Poul Anderson has, and you ask something about the basic elements of the human spirit.

    Say that to prevent the exploitation of a newly discovered species, a man were to father a child on a female of the species, and then kill the child in order to force the courts to decide whether or not it was murder. The question is, what makes a man. As envisioned by Vercors, this story was quiet and effective; I don’t see how the question could have been posed as effectively—or possibly even posed at all—as something other than science fiction (2) (my emphasis)

    Men (and specifically cishet white men, from middle class to elite classes) are the default human in this discussion of why science fiction should be deserving of the designation “literature” and the default artists and critics. No women exist.

    Panshin, Alexei. Heinlein in Dimension: A Critical Analysis. Chicago: Advent, 1968.

    One of the most invisible and most powerful signifiers of privilege is the luxury of being the default, of being human, of never being identified as [RACE], [SEX], [GENDER], [CLASS].

    And if somebody who is in fact cis, heterosexual, white, and male gets upset at those terms being used *descriptively,* it is because he is not used to being so identified, because that sort of identity has been reserved for the Others. Recently Others are resisting that pattern.

    As a number of people in the discussion on Tempest’s tweet note, she perfectly articulated an important idea relating to intersectional and progressive issues. I’m copying some of the main points raised by people disagreeing with Mike’s point from the discussion!

    not well articulated (Mike)

    I agree that Twitter is a hard place to hold some discussions, but as the comments below note, people who are aware of the theories and discourses around intersectional analysis found what Tempest said to be quite articulate.

    that even in those categories you mentioned Mike (ie, Religious minorities. People with disabilities. Participants in 12 Step programs…), I see the worth, if not the necessity, in having a perspective from someone who isn’t male, or someone who is also a racial minority. (Snowcrash)

    Good intersectional point by Snowcrash: even in these sorts of marginalized groups, white cishet males experience privilege related to those axes of identity, and it’s too easy to fall into the pattern of making them moderators *without intending* to marginalize others simply because, default thinking (and because people tend to go with the people they know).

    When doing an event involving minorities or underrepresented groups, a cishet white male MIGHT be OK as a moderator…but first make sure that the person involved is an ally, or at least has not already proven themselves to be a raging asshole in regards to the group. (Rose Embolism)

    One of the problems is that some allies forget that their job is not to speak “for” the people they are allies of. There’s a reason white a white male Tim Wise is paid big bucks to come talk to other white people about racism when there are many experts who are people of color who could do it—and that reason is white privilege. I know moderators at sf cons don’t get $, but the principle stands. The best thing an ally can do in a situation like this, when invited, is to try to find someone of the group the discussion focuses on to moderate. (And it doesn’t only apply to white cishet male: I turned down an invitation from a friend to be on a roundtable discussion because I was uncomfortable with it being framed as only white women talking about the topic when I knew that there were women of color who could be invited–I offered to invite them since she felt uncomfortable asking people who were not her friends. I suspect the discussion will end up with only white women who all know each other, and that’s not good–it tends to be inevitable, but it’s not good. )

    I get exactly what Tempest Bradford tries to say: that when a panel is about a disadvantaged group, make sure that the moderator has some connection with said disadvantaged group, or at least has some real experience of being of the receiving end of structural disadvantage. (Karl-Johan Norén)

    Yep!

    six women TV writers and a male moderator. That felt awkward to me, although there wasn’t any antagonism or anything like that between the panelists. There just seemed an unintended old school symbolism in the choice. (Mike)

    I’d call it unintentional sexism, and from my perspective it’s not old school in the sense of it rarely happens any more. It happens all the time without intention, and that’s why these discussions and yes “rules” need to occur.

    And intersectional thinking also leads to asking how many were white, straight, cis, etc.

    As usual, she chose to make a statement about “cishet white males” in a way that will draw attention to herself. And sometimes I am going to grant her wish when she heaves out one of these axioms that tries to disqualify me from participating in fanac. (Mike)

    I agree with Cat that you are ignoring Tempest’s very specific limitation: panels abt people from minority/marginalized groups are in no way all of fanac. Might be fun to do some stats analysis of the Spokane program to see what the percentage are.

    And how would being disqualified only from moderating only those panels that are about minorities in fandom disqualify you from participating in fanac? It looks like she suggests that a very tiny amount of fanac should be reserved for people who can’t be you but that doesn’t really strike me as quite the same thing. (Cat)

    It’s not a zero percentage game. And the fact is, the default affirmative action for straight white cis middle class to elite men that existed for centuries (where they did not have to compete with the marginalized/excluded groups) is the reason that the laws needed to change—and those changes have been in place for under a century in most cases (I identify Voting Rights Acts as the first ones). “Identity politics” exist because the dominant group “identified” some other groups as Other/not human/not having equal rights, so all the complaints about “identity politics” these days really piss me off.

    Also, all I saw that was she called out a problem. Of course, Martin Luther King’s fight for civil rights was all about himself, too. It’s only white cishet males who can be TRULY not about themselves all the time. (Karl-Johan Norén)

    Karl-Johan, I like your style!

    And Stevie’s point about positive discrimination is worth highlighting as well: In other words, Willingham was appointed by positive discrimination; no-one notices that positive discrimination for much the same reasons that puppidum doesn’t notice politics it agrees with.

  32. 1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman — this is the book, not the movie. Book, not movie. ARGH.

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    Watership Down, Richard Adams ARGH.

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart

    6. GENERATION
    Although I like Sheepfarmer’s Daughter, I re-read Oath of Gold far more often, so that gets my vote.

  33. 1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    6. GENERATION
    Bloodlines (Tanya Huff) (1991)

  34. 7) Well, it seems we have yet another entry for a little game called: “Social Justice Warrior or Stormfront?”

    You know, Tuomas, the lovely folks at Stormfront hate social justice warriors just as much as you do. More, even! Hell, the lovely folks as Stormfront are invariably on your side when it comes to social issues, even if they a bit more strident than you (say you) would like.

    Do you ever wonder why that is? Or why, say, Hoyt’s blog has so many Confederate sympathizers that she had to ban discussion of the American Civil War?

    No? I thought not.

  35. @Ginger since the dream match is against LOTR and not any of the individual books I’d be willing to extend my vote to cover the whole Deed of Paksenarrion.

  36. The comments about moderator qualifications are interesting. Jim Henley and others here are saying some very wise things on the panel moderation topic. I sort of feel like I don’t need to contribute to the conversation, but also that as a woman I really should include my voice in the discussion.

    KTB didn’t say you can’t participate in a panel about underprivileged groups, Mike, just that your participation shouldn’t be that of moderating the discussion. If it was rephrased as “panels discussions about underprivileged groups shouldn’t be moderated by members of a more privileged group” would it be more palatable a concept? Because that is what I heard when I read her tweet. I’d be delighted to participate in a WOC in MG/YA SFF panel, for example, but would absolutely turn down the role of moderator.

  37. I haven’t really been in on previous brackets, but I do have Opinions about some of the ones here!

    1. EDUCATION
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    Because Pratchett. Rewards multiple re-readings too.

    3. MATURATION
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    This was the hard one, because these are my top two favorite books EVAR. But I’ve been re-reading Bridge of Birds recently, and I think The Last Unicorn holds up better for multiple re-reads than BoB does. At least it does in my world.

  38. Paul Weimer — Not 100% sure whether you were already aware of this or not, but Silverlock has already been on the ballot and therefore is ineligible to be added back on again.

  39. 1. The Riddle-Master of Hed
    2. Watership Down
    3. The Tombs of Atuan
    4. Abstain
    5. The Last Unicorn/Bridge of Birds (tie)
    6. The 13 Clocks (to which there is a blatant homage in The Last Unicorn)

  40. 1. The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip

    2. Abstain

    3. The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin

    4. Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

    5. The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle

    Whew.

  41. If “The 13 clocks” is too much of a children’s book, substitute my vote for Swordspoint.

  42. Anyone with that sort of known pattern of behavior doesn’t belong on any panel, much less moderating one. Assembling programing is more than just filling in holes in spreadsheets

    Well, but here we pull up all the known problems with whisper networks in fandom. What do I know?–that a half dozen people muttered darkly at the name and one friend of mine waved her hand and said “oh, he’s an ass.” And I only know that because of a chance conversation and because I was so overwhelmed that I was using the same conversational script repeatedly at a party.

    If I had been assembling a spreadsheet of panels a month before that, I might have gone “oh! He has great female characters!” (It’s true, early Fables is excellent.) and put him on the panel in all innocence and then people would yell at me and I’d go “I had no idea! I thought Snow White and Goldilocks were amazing! I’m sorry!”

    There’s too many people and we communicate about them badly with each other.

    I honestly think that’s why Tempest’s suggestion has merit, though I’d approach from the other direction. If you’re going to have a panel about a minority, make the moderator a member of that minority, full stop. That seems sensible to me on a lot of levels, not least because your moderator is more likely to know the actual issues affecting said minority–if you’ve got a group of women having to explain Feminism 101 to Dudebro Moderator, say, you’ve wasted everyone’s time, audience and panelists alike.

  43. sob. whimper.

    1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip

    2. EXPLORATION
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    Turtle vs. bunnies. ouch.(deep breaths….)

    I actually mentioned this one to Mom** when I was calling her on an unrelated topic, and — well, her exact words were longstanding family terminology, but pretty much translate into English as “Good Lord you want me to choose?” (FWIW, after some thought, she picked Pratchett)

    I, on the other hand, had to fetch both books and reread the first few pages of each before I could even try to vote, and ultimately, Adams has it.

    3. MATURATION
    abstain

    4. DESOLATION
    abstain

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    (weeps)
    And I should have asked her about this one, since she also loves both of these, but maybe not *quite* as much as Adams and Pratchett. Also, I don’t know what I’d say if she voted the other way from me again. “Hurray, we balance out!”? “I’m never speaking to you again”? “Fair cop”?

    6. GENERATION
    Ellen Kushner – Swordspoint. I freely admit I wouldn’t have thought of it *right now* without its other votes — But I had actually thought of it as a suggestion for the 80s bracket earlier, and simply failed to do so at a useful moment.

    **My mother and I have more book tastes in common by far than my husband and I. He’s all for E.E. ‘Doc” Smith and Dune, Heinlein and Clarke, where I cringe in ignorance. I don’t think he’s read most of the fantasy bracket, although he is a Pratchett fan.

  44. 1. The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    2. Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    3. The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    4. Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny (some other Vance might’ve made me opt for TIE, though I suspect most of those would’ve been over on the SF side of things)
    5. Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart

  45. I await the following bracket with relish…

    “You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – The most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” – but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go in against a Sicilian when death Le Guin when a bracket is on the line”!

  46. Andy H: Juniper, Gentian, and Rosemary is actually my favourite Pamela Dean – when she signed my copy, I got her to do so by the closing poem instead of the front leaf, because it was so perfect an end.

  47. I’ve seen ‘astronaut ice cream’ in Michael’s (the craft store) a few times. It usually is around the aisle with the models and the toy dinosaurs.

  48. Mike, that Writing About Controversies panel sounds fascinating! Will anyone keep notes or anything?

    1. EDUCATION
    The Riddle-Master of Hed, Patricia McKillip
    The Princess Bride, William Goldman

    2. EXPLORATION
    Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
    Watership Down, Richard Adams

    3. MATURATION
    The Tombs of Atuan, Ursula K. Le Guin
    The Once and Future King, T. H. White

    4. DESOLATION
    Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny
    The Dying Earth, Jack Vance

    5. RESTORATION
    The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle
    Bridge of Birds, Barry Hughart

    6. GENERATION
    The Broken Sword, Poul Anderson

  49. 1. The princess bride
    2. Small gods
    3. Tombs of Atuan
    4. Abstain
    5. The last unicorn
    Cold cloth, please!
    6. Islandia, Austin Tappan Wright; The interior life, Katherine Blake

  50. I spent so much time self editing on that last post (seriously, hundreds of words typed, reconsidered, revised and deleted), rrede and RedWombat’s weren’t there when I started.

    +1 to every single thing rrede said. All of it.

    RedWombat, I’ve only been to a handful of media conventions (2 worldcons, DSC, GenCon, and a few other very small regional cons), but it seems like half of the moderators got the job because they suggested the topic, and many of the rest start the discussion with either “I’m not sure why I am moderating this” or “I’ve never moderated a panel”. Which is to say, I have definitely gotten the impression that your “groggy volunteer” description of organization is apt. Or I am just really terrible at picking panels.

Comments are closed.