(1) A BEST EDITOR WINNER. SFFWorld interviewed editor Ellen Datlow:
A working life spent reading SF, Fantasy, and horror short stories sounds like a dream come true. Are there down sides to being an editor? Do you have any advice for aspiring editors?
ED: I’ve always loved short stories, so working in the short fiction field is indeed the perfect job for me. It’s hard to find time to read outside the genres in which I’m currently working. I mostly read short fiction for work, so picking novels that I hope I’ll enjoy is the challenge. They usually have to be dark/horror so I can cover them in my annual Best Horror of the Year. The administration is a pain: sending out contracts, paying royalties to a hundred writers is onerous (even with Paypal). But everything else is great. I love the whole editing process, from soliciting new stories that would not exist except for me asking; working with my authors on story revision (if necessary); and even the line edit.
Advice: Read. Read slush. If you don’t love reading, you have no reason to be an editor
(2) SCIENCE ADVISOR. Financial Times profiled Cal Tech physicist Spyridon Michalakis in “’I help Hollywood film-makers get their science right’”. (Warning: I had to answer a 10-question survey ad to see the full article.)
In the article Michalakis discusses his work through The Science and Entertainment Exchange, “which connects film and TV producers with scientists.” He’s consulted on Ant-Man, Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and other shows.
Here’s what he had to say about Gravity:
“It’s a shame when I see films that inadvertently forgo scientific accuracy for added drama. For instance, in the movie Gravity when Sandra Bullock’s character grabs hold of George Clooney’s character while they’re both floating out in space, he tells her she has to let go of him, otherwise both of them are going to fly off and die because he’s pulling her farther and farther away from the space station. The trouble is, they’re so far away from Earth that, in reality, nothing would actually be pulling them.
“I find myself watching that scene and thinking they could have achieved the same drama just as easily with something called ‘conservation of momentum.” With this, the only way for her to get back to the station would be for Clooney’s character to actively sacrifice himself by pushing Bullock away from him. It would have been real science and it would have made the movie better. You watch these things and you say to yourself, ‘I’m just a phone call away.'”
(3) OHH-KAYYY…. The Washington D.C. public library has an idea for drawing attention to oft-challenged books. Is it innovative, or over-the-top?
Every year, libraries around the country observe Banned Books Week, to remind the public that even well known and much loved books can be the targets of censorship. This year, Washington D.C.’s public library came up with a clever idea to focus attention on the issue: a banned books scavenger hunt.
Now, readers are stalking local shops, cafes and bookstores looking for copies of books that are hidden behind distinctive black and white covers. There is no title on the cover, just a phrase — such as FILTHY, TRASHY or PROFANE — which describes the reason why some people wanted the book banned.
For those lunchin' @UnionMarketDC– we just did an #UncensoredDC drop while scoping out dreamy goods for the home pic.twitter.com/jLubu86RkW
— DC Public Library Foundation (DCPLF) (@LoveDCLibrary) September 15, 2016
(4) SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CONSERVATIVE. John Shirley, who identifies as a progressive, argues “Why Conservatives are a Necessary Component of a Vital Society” in a post for Tangent Online. I have to say it brings to mind the ending of Harlan Ellison’s “Beast Who Shouted Love at the Heart of the World.”
….Every democracy genuinely needs conservatives. And not so we can have someone to argue with. We need them for their perspective; we need them for their call for individual hard work, which is always a good thing in itself, when people can find it; we need them for the reluctance at least some of them show to get engaged in wars that squander blood and treasure. And we need them to be skeptical of our schemes.
We need them to push back.….
This website, Tangent Online, relates to the science-fiction field, and so do I. From time to time the sf field has been storm-lashed by political controversies, essentially conservative vs. liberal and vice versa. Going back, it cuts both ways: back in the day, Donald Wollheim and Fred Pohl and Judith Merril and others were slagged by conservative sf writers and editors for leaning left. Now the pendulum has swung way, way the other direction and certain reasonable conservatives amongst science fiction writers and critics are sometimes being over scrutinized, even punished, for outspokenness and some fairly normal speech tropes—most recently, Dave Truesdale was actually ejected from the Worldcon for having declared on a short story panel, in the space of a few minutes, that science fiction was being unfairly truncated by politics, and free speech gagged by political correctness emanating from the left. I listened to a tape of the remarks and could find nothing that broke any convention rules. Some defending the convention fall back on claims that his use of the term “pearl clutchers” is sexist, is hateful to women. But in my experience the term does not apply to women, particularly—it’s about people who are making a drama of nothing, probably just to get attention. Underlying the con committee’s action was, I suspect, emotional fallout from the “Sad Puppies” Hugo Award controversy. But people shouldn’t let emotions dictate their interpretation of the rules.
(5) TODAY’S BIRTHDAY GIRL
- September 15, 1907 – Fay Wray
(6) RICK RIORDAN PRESENTS. Disney has announced a new Rick Riordan Presents imprint reports Publishers Weekly. Riordan will curate a line of books that introduces selected writers of mythology-based novels.
Rick Riordan has gotten a variation on the same question from his fans about a zillion times: When are you going to write about (fill in the blank): the Hindu gods and goddesses? Ancient Chinese mythology? Native American legends?
Now, he has an answer – of sorts: Disney-Hyperion is launching Rick Riordan Presents, an imprint devoted to mythology-based books for middle grade readers. The imprint, which will be led by Riordan’s editor, Stephanie Owens Lurie, hopes to launch with two books in summer 2018. The books will not be written by Riordan, whose role will be closer to curator than author.
…The plan is to launch the imprint in July 2018 with two books, though those books have not yet been acquired yet. “We’ve approached a couple of people but some of them are adult writers so they would be trying to do something completely different,” Lurie said. “The point of making this announcement now is to get the word out about what we’re looking for.”
“Rick just can’t write fast enough to satisfy his fans,” said Lurie, whose official title will be editorial director of the imprint. “I think he’s doing an incredible job writing two books a year already.”
There’s also this: ”I know he feels that, in some instances, the books his readers are asking for him to write are really someone else’s story to tell,” Lurie said.
(7) MAJOR SF ART EXHIBIT. The IX Preview Weekend Popup Exhibition will take place at the Delaware Art Museum in Wilmington, DE from September 23-25. Tickets required.
Imaginative Realism combines classical painting techniques with narrative subjects, focusing on the unreal, the unseen, and the impossible. In partnership with IX Arts organizers, the Delaware Art Museum will host the first IX Preview Weekend, celebrating Imaginative Realism and to kick off IX9–the annual groundbreaking art show, symposium, and celebration dedicated solely to the genre.
Imaginative Realism is the cutting edge of contemporary painting and illustration and often includes themes related to science fiction and fantasy movies, games, and books. A pop-up exhibition and the weekend of events will feature over 16 contemporary artists internationally recognized for their contributions to Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Avatar, Marvel, DC Comics, Blizzard Entertainment, and Wizards of the Coast, among others.
There will be workshops by two leading sf artists as well.
Sept 24 @ 7:00 pm
Workshop with Bob Eggleton: Seascapes Sept 24 @ 10:15 am – 12:15 pm and 2:00 pm – 4:00 pm During this hands on demonstration and group painting salon, Bob Eggleton will walk participants through creating a seascape in acrylic paint with a nod to the ocean as ‘character’. Incorporated into the illustration storytelling aspect of this demonstration will be construction of the ocean as narrative using elements, from the subtle to the extreme, like sea monsters, antique ships, rocks, waves, clouds, lighting, and odd bits of flotsam and jetsam debris. Bob will share his own experience as well as that of his heroes, classic 19th and 20th century illustrators and fine art Masters. Pre-registration required. Supplies: Attendees should bring preferred acrylic painting setup, including brushes, paints, and paper/panels/boards.
Drawing Workshop and Lecture with Donato Giancola: Compositional Drawing Sept 25 @ 10:15 am – 12:15 pm and 2:00 pm – 4:00 pm Donato will share his knowledge and approach to producing skillfully drafted drawings. From sketch to finish, the aesthetic and technical decisions the artist makes will be laid bare for observation and comments offering wonderful insight into the foundations of creativity of a modern artist. The four-hour workshop is for the artist who aspires to pursue further development and refinement of their skills in composition and as storytellers. Attendees of all skill levels are welcome as the focus of the workshop is upon creative problem solving, not technical execution. Pre-registration required. Supplies: Attendees should bring along their own preferred drawing utensils (pencils, paper,sketchbooks, etc) as well as a few favorite images/photos of themes they wish to create work upon. Alternative drawing supplies will also be available for use.
(8) WHAT’S A HUGO WIN WORTH? Kay Taylor Rea of Uncanny Magazine says Hugo wins are helping sales there. (Uncanny won the 2016 Best Semiprozine Hugo.)
considering the Hugo's meant we've already passed last year's site traffic at Uncanny saying awards don't drive sales? Hm
— Kay Taylor Rea (@kaytaylorrea) September 4, 2016
(9) NOT LETTING THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG. Mary Robinette Kowal posted a photo of what’s in the suitcase she’s taking to the Writing Excuses Workshop.
(10) NO ONE BEHIND THE WHEEL. Matthew Johnson is the latest Filer to leave a poetic masterwork in comments:
Inspired by item 7:
My self-driving car must think it queer
To stop without a charger near.
I wonder, did I hurt its pride
When I pressed DRIVER OVERRIDE?
Whose woods these are I think I spy:
in June the Google Car went by
And so the trees, though deep in snow, are green
When viewed upon my tablet screen.
Most days I doze away the route
That my car drives on our commute
And trade the sight of forests dark and deep
For just another hour’s sleep.
This night, the darkest of the year
Some demon woke me, passing here,
And so I stopped, though home is far
Got out and left my loyal car.
A single line of deer track goes
Into the forest, deep with snow
My road, I know, was once just such a trail
Blazed by cloven hooves and white-tipped tails
Crowdsourced by deer to find the gentlest route
Through tree and mountain, lake and chute
Then followed feet, at first in leather clad
To travel where the hooves of deer had.
My car’s soft beep awakens me:
To stay longer would unreasonably
Expose the maker to liability
And besides, it voids the warranty.
Well, a contract is a contract, after all,
And speaks louder than the forest’s call
So I return, my feet no longer free,
Because I clicked on I AGREE.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have Terms of Use to keep,
And miles to go while fast asleep,
And miles to go while fast asleep.
[Thanks to Lee, Martin Morse Wooster, and John King Tarpinian for some of these stories. Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editor of the day Dawn Incognito.]
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Petréa Mitchell: What exactly is the use of bringing up that Paulk post?
What is the use of linking to any of the Puppy items to which Mike links? What is the use of knowing what other people are saying and doing? Why don’t we all just stick our heads in a hole and pretend that nothing that other people say or do affects us?
If it’s not something that interests you, skip past it. I skip past a fair bit of stuff here, including all the posts you make about anime. That doesn’t mean your posts are worthless, nor does it mean that my taste is wrong. Why should anyone here expect anyone else to cater to their expectations about “acceptable” subject matter for posts?
@Mike Glyer – Should that trend continue, I’m not going to wait a year to do something about it.
Thank you. The plonk script only works for the actual comment and doesn’t do a thing for replies (not judging anyone who does, just explaining why I’m expressing gratitude).
airboy: I’ve not enjoyed most Hugo winners in recent decades. But I think that the Hugo voters this year made a good faith effort on the whole to assess the nominees on the basis of how much they liked them. If Aeronaut had finished below no award I would not have this opinion.
I put Aeronaut’s Windless below No Award. I also put Seveneves below No Award. My decisions were based on my evaluation of the quality of those works. I didn’t think that either one was good enough to merit a place on the Hugo ballot. And yet, you are somehow claiming that my decisions were not based on how much I liked those books.
This is why Puppies tend to have no credibility with the rest of the Hugo voters: Puppies keep insisting that other people are not allowed to have opinions on quality which differ from the Puppies’ opinions.
K8, Cheryl S,
Thanks. Many of those are new to me, so I’ll keep an eye open for them.
@Mike Glyer:
Can I beg? Is begging unseemly? I don’t have a ton of pride. This isn’t the first thread thoroughly highjacked by Ms. Buis and her disingenuous questions and I doubt it’ll be the last.
*begs as nicely as possible*
@Dawn Incognito: Thank you!
I’ve missed talking to you all (have been reading along during the summer maelstrom of teaching, and hoping to get back to commenting). I should try to post thank yous for all the book recs (don’t remember all the names, but I’ve picked up some fantastic reads from here). Tepper is one of my favorite writers: Grass is the first of a loose series (meaning different characters in a metanarrative taking place on different planets), with Raising the Stones and Sideshow the other two. Grass is I think my absolute favorite of Tepper’s work.
Every time I think about The Fifth Season my socks fly off again and do an orbit around the room. The structure! The craft! The darkness! The social commentary! It’s like it was written specifically to push all of my buttons. Congratulations again to N.K. Jemisin for the much-deserved recognition of an amazing book.
I LOVE the socks in orbit imagery, and YES totally agree to everything here. (She’s currently talking on FB about shutting down comments on her blog because of trolls, or just irritating types, including one or more who are lecturing her on Essun not being traumatized, i.e. not having PTSD.)
@K8: @robinareid – Fwiw, at one point in think I saw Jemisin tweet that she hadn’t read Beloved but that it was clear from people’s comments comparing her work to that text that they weren’t aware of Margaret Garner and the ways her story has been used in literature.
I don’t even try to read tweets anymore—but she also talked about that on Facebook. I learned about Garner in the context of Morrison’s novel (I was a grader for one of my profs in my doctoral program, and she assigned Morrison, and I remember a student comment card asking “how could a ghost story win a Pulitzer”).
@Chris S: How you can make the end of the world a small matter is a great piece of writing.
I know! It’s so brilliantly done, and I’m now in deep theorizing about what Alabaster has done and why the destruction may have been necessary as a first step but not necessarily the end. Some of the events in the second one grabbed me (I have to re-read it).
Too bleak, and too likely to be whitewashed…..
@NickP: I currently have an 8-year old and an 11-year old who have outgrown children’s books, but whom I am not yet ready to just turn loose in the adult section of the library/book shop.
A number of my friends have been nominated as best aunt or other relative after I rec’d Diane Duane’s <a href="http://www.youngwizards.com/so-you-want-to-be-a-wizard/"Young Wizard series for their young relatives in that age range.
Seconding K8’s recs for Diana Wynne Jones, (and thinking I need to check out some of their OTHER recs which I haven’t heard of!).
@Camestros Felapton:
I’ll make a tiny defence of Paulk’s piece: {quotes deleted} Paulk is trying to be snarky but I was struck by how the writing has led somebody unwittingly to ask such a key question about the book.
Wow–you’re right! I did not actually read Paulk’s commentary (I have this blood pressure problem…), just the comments here.
Fascinating!
@Various: Talk shows today…
I loved Dick Cavett’s show back in the day (it was an afternoon one), and it mostly spoiled me for other talk shows even at the same time. Other than Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert’s first show which weren’t really talk shows, I mostly cannot stand the genre for all the reasons given here.
@Andrew M: There are also children’s and YA books whose protagonists are adults. (The Hobbit, for a start.)
Re TH: I have taught it several times (undergrad and graduate), and students often read Bilbo as young (I keep mumbling about his age), and claim it’s a ‘coming of age story.” But I agree about current ideas focusing more on age. (Don’t even get me started on the reading expert some newspaper consulted for a story on one of the Potter books—the fifth?—in which consultant opined that younger readers would not read anything they could not finish in one sitting.)
@Lee: You realize that it doesn’t matter how many people talk about having voted for TFS because they loved it, or because they thought it was the best on the ballot. All those people are just lying and virtue-signaling, because the ONLY reason anyone would have ever voted for a non-Puppy entry is that it was written by a black woman. And you will never be able to convince any of the Puppies otherwise. It’s like trying to convince an anti-vaxxer with facts.
That’s why I consider the readers for what I’m writing to be those who are not in the canine groups but who are not well enough informed about the history, the literature, and related issues to evaluate just how wrong so much of what they say is. That’s often true in regard to controversial topics: there is no point trying to persuade the overt opponents, but there is the larger group in the middle ground, often lurkers, who haven’t yet made up their minds (and despite how large the whole controversy looms to us—and for me it’s just the latest step in the sequence of events that started with Racefail ’09 which wasn’t even the first of the racism imbroglios in online media fandom—more people than not haven’t heard of it, don’t know it—and in this group I include sff readers and some sff academics—or they have only vaguely heard of it). And heck, there can always be people around who haven’t picked up TFS, or have it in the middle or near the bottom of Mt. TBR, etc.
At the very least, those of us who love it get to see what others who love it say!
@Junego: *hey* One of my faves too—what others do you like? I’m very fond of The Fresco (Trigger Warning for abusive husband that protagonist leaves fairly early in the story), the Marianne series, the Jinian series (I put up with Peter’s series), and Raising the Stones. Have you read her mysteries (published variously under A. J. Orde and B. J Oliphant—hope I haz the initials straight!).
@various on “conservatives”: seems that it’s necessary these days to distinguish between the kind of Republicans/conservatives I was on track for becoming up to age 15 who were small-government, economic conservatives, anti-Communist, etc. who went badly over the fucking cliff with their Southern Strategy and nurtured the social (evangelical/fundamentalist) and racist groups who became the Tea Party.
In Idaho, when I was growing up, the Republicans (primarily representing the northern part of the state) were the more “liberal” party (defined as supporting unions) and the Democrats (heavily Catholic or Mormon, and strong John Birchers) were more “conservative.”
Medical question: can you damage your optic nerve by rolling your eyes too much. I mean, are they getting all wound up in my head like elastic bands? Eventually, if I keep rolling them, will those nerves become so wound around that my eyes will suddenly rotate in the opposite direction like cheap propellers on a balsa-wood aeroplane?
Camestros Felapton: will those nerves become so wound around that my eyes will suddenly rotate in the opposite direction like cheap propellers on a balsa-wood aeroplane?
I worry more about eyes popping out of the sockets and rolling madly across the floor gathering dust and cat hair…….
@Camestros Felapton, anecdotal evidence (mine, to be exact) says even decades of rolling your eyes so hard your head hurts does not cause permanent damage.
@airboy:
A while back Aan came up with a Stylish extension that would allow you to white out commenters who were trolling/ annoying/ that you did not want to see.
Tegans compilation of the various killfile / highlight codes are here
If you’re using Stylish, you can use the following link in Userstyles.org to install the killfile automatically:
About 5 minutes or so should be enough to familiarise yourself with it’s usage. To help:
Aarons gravatar ID is: 555756c660144ad027f2358b686cf8a5
Yours is: fbad556dacbc533fe96a9c479ecf077a
Technology is wonderful. Feel free to avail yourself of it.
@robinareid
Oh, I disagree with Essun not having PTSD. (Rot-13 for Obsidian Gate spoiler) Fur frrf fbzrbar nobhg gb chapu n lbhat bebtrar, synfurf onpx gb frrvat ure fba’f obql, naq gheaf gur chapure naq nyzbfg rirel fgvyy va gur jubyr ehfgvat pbzz gb fgbar. V’q pnyy gung fbzr shpxvat genhzn.
Also, I believe the Sad Puppies suggested list (It was NOT a slate this time!) was added to by some of the foul SJWs of this parish.
If we’re going to wave around our conservative-adjacent credentials, do I need to once again point out that my parents’ best friends are also friends of President Bush pere et fils and the whole Bush clan? Appointed to offices by W. when governor? People I’ve gone to church with, for crying out loud. While indeed the Bushes aren’t alt-right or Tea Party, I don’t think you can question their conservative bona fides.
I used to watch both Dick Cavett and William F. Buckley. Oh for those days.
If we’re going to wave around our conservative-adjacent credentials, do I need to once again point out that my parents’ best friends are also friends of President Bush pere et fils and the whole Bush clan?
I do have a letter from W. Bush thanking me for the work I did during his transition from the office of the Presidency. The notion that somehow I don’t know and don’t understand conservatives is so off-base that it is laughable.
lurkertype: If we’re going to wave around our conservative-adjacent credentials, do I need to once again point out that my parents’ best friends are also friends of President Bush pere et fils and the whole Bush clan? Appointed to offices by W. when governor? People I’ve gone to church with, for crying out loud. While indeed the Bushes aren’t alt-right or Tea Party, I don’t think you can question their conservative bona fides.
Gah, don’t even ask about just how close my dad and one of my siblings is to GWB and other GOP bigwigs. On my last visit, my dad was claiming that Trump wasn’t really inciting an assassination of Hillary, “he was just encouraging gun-rights supporters to get out and vote”. 🙄
@Dawn Incognito: I agree–that scene and others! Some interesting discussion on Jemisin’s facebook post about the various stereotypes around PTSD, and how many of her commenters think that yes, major trauma. I think her FB posts are locked down most of the time, so won’t link.
Lurkertype: While indeed the Bushes aren’t alt-right or Tea Party, I don’t think you can question their conservative bona fides.
Exactly: and the fact that they boycotted the Republican National Convention for the first time ever shows the huge gap between the different “conservative” groups.
http://www.npr.org/2016/07/18/486398726/dumpster-fires-fishing-and-travel-these-republicans-are-sitting-out-the-rnc
I don’t think they get to complain given how the GOP has been manipulating that rural/populist/fundamentalist group ever since Nixon and the Moral Majority. They raised that spectre, and the rest of us now have to live with it.
@Aaron
The Senate is not the Congress; only the full Congress may declare war. Later on, the House voted down a Joint Resolution which would have authorized continuing military involvement.
Suggesting the UN look into a no-fly zone isn’t the same as authorizing the armed forces to wage war. But the U.S. went beyond imposing a no-fly zone, including bombing tanks and artillery and strafing naval craft, and imposing a naval blockade, which is itself an act of war. The administration waged war against Libya without the Congress having authorized it. Shame on the Congress for abdicating its responsibilities and allowing this to happen, but the administration went beyond its Constitutional authority (and yes, this has happened with Presidents of both parties, and Congresses from held by both parties have countenanced this).
And an “orderly transition” isn’t what happened, not by a long shot.
@Airboy’s original comment (“Then Obama & Clinton launch a war against Libya, without Congressional approval, and topple that dictatorship.”) is correct.
@Lela E. Buis
Actually I read that as saying that people voted against the nominees from the slates–not that they specifically voted for any particular nominees, and certainly not on the basis of their race. I think you’re reading too much into coverage that was none too good in the first place. 🙂
However, it won’t surprise me if this is a standard talking point among the slaters for a while. If the “sad” variety make much use of it, though, it’ll be further evidence that there really aren’t two different kinds of puppies, since it’s an overtly racist line of argument.
@ Greg: They only nominated those to show that fans would stupidly reject excellent works just because the puppies nominated them. By actually awarding those, we insulted the puppies. Or something like that.
So we were WrongFans voting for WrongBooks?
@ snowcrash: From what I see, it appears that most of the people voting for Johnson are doing so because they can’t stomach Trump but hate the name Clinton far too much to actually look at the candidate. Not so much “for him” as “against the racist and the Republican fantasy bitch-monster”.
@ Oneiros: It comes from the same place as any other Puppy argument — limited understanding, One-True-Wayism, and an addiction to feeling persecuted. Plus Buis is trying to invoke the Great Lie tactic, thinking that if she just keeps saying there was a coordinated effort there will magically have been one sooner or later. Notice that she’s still bringing the Guardian article back up as if it hadn’t already been debunked. We really ought to start tracking a Troll Bingo card here.
@Lela:
You, at 6:15 pm: “I’m not saying anything about the accuracy of the articles.”
You, at 6:24 pm: “The one the magazine is talking about.”
Pick one (1). If the content of the articles is worth discussing, then it matters whether they’re accurate. If their accuracy isn’t interesting, their content can’t be, either.
@Bruce: Lela is using the Schrodinger’s assertion gambit of shifting what she is claiming to what best suits her argument at that particular moment in time.
@JJ: Oof, my Bush-adjacent people are MUCH nicer and non-gun-nut than yours.
lurkertype: Oof, my Bush-adjacent people are MUCH nicer and non-gun-nut than yours.
My dad has always had a Tea-Party mentality, long before the TP existed. It has always been a wonder to me how I turned out so vastly opposite from him.
Sadly, one of my siblings got the brainwashing early on — though they have become much more progressive in the last couple of decades (due, mainly, I think, to having learned from life experience that a lot of the TP rhetoric is not consistent with reality). A month ago they told me that there are 3 trans kids in their teenaged daughter’s grade in high school, and that they thought it was really cool how everyone pretty much takes that in stride and does not make a big deal out of it. I was so pleased to hear that — because I would not want my niece and nephew to grow up being taught to be like my dad.
Every year I spend a week with my parents — and then reward myself with a week at Worldcon immediately after. Every year, I invariably end the first week saying to myself, as I drive away, “I am never fucking doing this again!” — and then I do it again the next year anyway, because 1) my mom, and 2) my parents are not likely to be around much longer.
@HRJ about Medieval Welsh: How cool! Thanks for talking about that.
Eye rolling on its own is fine with the right supervision*, but you’ve got to be careful when it’s combined with overzealous eyebrow raising or you can wind up with a look of permanent distaste.
Eye rolling while one’s socks are still in orbit should only be undertaken by those with a valid license, and even then it’s risky if not within two hours of the nearest decompression chamber.
*a good friend and/or a nice beverage
Ah! Now I feel a little foolish. That opening paragraph I wrote a little further past–that was from a book people here were defending.
I guess it’s nice to know I can resist peer pressure. I wonder if that’s as true of real peer pressure as it is of the imaginary flavor.
Heather,
studies (although not deeply rigorous ones) show that when books in the same genre and from the same publication/distribution segment are compared with regard to Goodreads ratings , “more readers” correlates with “lower average rating”
I have no doubt that is true, particularly for books with just a handful of enthusiastic readers. But all the finalists were owned by tens of thousands on GoodReads, so any such effect will be muted.
In any case, my point was to disprove Leila’s claim that
all the indicators pointed to Uprooted as the winner.
At least three did not – GoodReads average ratings, LibraryThing average ratings, and declared preferences of bloggers; all three of which pointed to The Fifth Season as the winner.
I’ve been working hard not to pull a “someone is wrong on the internet” thing with Lela E. Buis. What helped is that a couple of their comments were purely trollish to the point where I no longer felt a need to reply. That’s the thing with trolls – they aren’t actually attempting to engage in dialogue, Socratic, Aristotlean, or Drunken – they just want a reaction. That’s why their arguments fluctuate and morph depending on responses. Those people are ultimately boring unless you seek out endless flame wars for pleasure.
Airboy*, on the other hand, I feel is kind of in a similar position here that I would be commenting on a puppy-type site, if there was a puppy-type site that had a lot of people super into reading, as opposed to reactionary politics, gaming, or entrepreneurial genre writing. On the one hand, it’s hard not to make digs at people whose politics are directly opposed to yours, but on the other hand, it’s cool to talk about good books.
Which also reminds me of something someone said earlier, about unintentional slates being mediated by EPH. I wonder if File770 constitutes something of an unintentional slate. It seems to me that books that are already somewhat popular, but fit into a certain taste (not sure what that taste is, exactly, as I seem to be embedded in it) will be amplified here. I have absolutely no data to back me up, but I wonder if, given the death of intentional slates (ie, VD’s attention moves elsewhere – I don’t think the SPs will ever go full-slate again, having learned their lesson despite their loud, disingenuous declarations of innocence), EPH could introduce a more diverse list of finalists. I’m hoping maybe yes.
* Sorry, Airboy and Lela E. Buis, to be talking about you like you aren’t in the room. I’m no old grey goose on this board, either, so please feel free to discuss my trolly behavior, as well.
@kathodus: But haven’t unintentional slates always happened? We called ’em “the odds-on favorites for the Hugos”. These vary from year to year and decade to decade, but mostly the unintentional slate = Hugo nominees or at least longlists. Possibly “stuff what will be up for awards”, be it Hugos, Nebulas, Locus. Works with buzz. I’d say even more so before we had the internet, when you had to rely on a much smaller range of info sources about what was good, and a MUCH smaller amount of places where the stuff was found. Short works, you got from Asimov’s, Analog, F&SF, Galaxy, IF, Omni, and that was it. No online freebies hither and yon.
*sigh* response deleted by attention-demanding SJW Signifier.
@lurkertype – I assume they always have. I also suspect the internet has concentrated this in some ways. I suspect Scalzi’s (extremely unpopular, rarely-viewed, much less significant than any arbitrary neo-fascist trustafarian you can think of) blog has a lot to do with eg. “The Shadow War of The Night Dragons: Book One: The Dead City: Prologue” being a Hugo finalist, just through the sheer number of his fans. Also, though, I get a whole lot of recs through here, and pretty much all of my nominations came from recs here. Few of them made it, but three were big – AM, Uprooted, and T5S. I’m used to my bit of whatever fandom I’m in being a weird, sub-basement kinda place (with all of the absolute best material that fandom offers), so when I see my picks doing well, I start wondering.
Mainly, I suspect the sudden ubiquity of the internet and especially the advent of social media has drastically changed how we learn about new things we might love. I can definitely attest to that in music. And really, until the previous year’s pupper kerfuffle, I was still getting 99% of my book recommendations verbally from friends or bookstore employees.
@lurkertype
That bit just hit me on re-reading, when I thought about the nature of Hugos voters. It must be a much less insular group (or rather, group of insular groups, I imagine) today than it was even 5 years ago, let alone 10 or more. I realized I’ve been thinking about it as if the current situation always prevailed.
@Lela A Buis,
Actually, let’s look at the quote from Slate more completely as you originally quoted it:
That actually describes three distinct groups:
A) “the pups”
B) “the women, people of color, and LBGTQ folks seeking a place in the science-fiction/fantasy world” ~= “that coalition”
C) Voters
Group A “positioned their nominees as a rebuke to” Group B; Group B “struck back”; Group C “opted to give “no award” in the five categories wholly overtaken by puppy nominees”.
Clearly, groups A, B and C are different groups; but you are conflating groups B and C.
Any political conflict is described at most between groups A and B, but does not involve group C.
The article incidentally doesn’t say how Group B “struck back”; in my reading, this probably refers to the discussion about the pups’ campaigns, the repudiation of their talking points, etc.
Nor does the article say why Group C voted as they did; but a perfectly valid reading is that they voted as one should, having read the works in question, ignoring the A-vs-B discussions … and that the works that Group A had pushed onto the ballots simply were not worthy of any awards. And that is not in any way political on the part of Group C, the Voters; it does not suggest or require them to take into account anything other than the works themselves (not politics, skin colour, or favourite beverage). It also happens to match what you can read in blog posts by voters in the 2015 Hugos, in discussions on file770, etc, which suggests that it’s not only a valid reading, but the correct one.
So in other words: that quote that you keep relying on to support your point, doesn’t.
I hope this helps clarify things.
kathodus: I wonder if File770 constitutes something of an unintentional slate. It seems to me that books that are already somewhat popular, but fit into a certain taste (not sure what that taste is, exactly, as I seem to be embedded in it) will be amplified here.
kathodus: It must be a much less insular group (or rather, group of insular groups, I imagine) today than it was even 5 years ago, let alone 10 or more. I realized I’ve been thinking about it as if the current situation always prevailed.
I would say that this even applies to File770. I loved Ancillary Mercy and Uprooted, but was decidedly “meh” on The Fifth Season (although I hope that that will change upon re-read, prior to reading The Obelisk Gate) — and I wasn’t the only one here who said that. There were a lot of other people who thought Seveneves and/or Aurora were great — even though I and numerous others thought that one or both of them were awful.
~270 people, including many people here, thought Karen Memory and/or Baru Cormorant were worthy enough to nominate, even though I saw plenty of other people here say (like me) that they didn’t.
I’ve seen a lot of people on here who thought Planetfall or The Invisible Library or Dark Orbit or Angry Planet were fantastic, as I did — and plenty of people who thought otherwise.
I don’t think that there is nearly as much nomination consensus on File770 as you seem to believe.
We did actually do a tally of Filers’ nominations at the time. The top novels were:
Ancillary Mercy, by Ann Leckie (33)
Uprooted, by Naomi Novik (20)
The Fifth Season, by N.K. Jemisin (18)
Radiance, by Catherynne M. Valente (9)
Bryony and Roses, by T. Kingfisher [Ursula Vernon] (8)
Karen Memory, by Elizabeth Bear (8)
The Just City, by Jo Walton (7)
Seveneves, by Neal Stephenson (7)
But there was a very long tail.
Lela E. Buis:
I found it boring, pointless, lacking of interesting interaction and the prose turned me off. Can’t remember if I voted below No Award or not, but wouldn’t surprise me.
It was absolutely not “subtle”.
@JJ – There is a lot of dissent here. I do use File770 as something of a gatekeeper/filter for what I read, as I’ve come to understand various filers’ taste to where I can predict whether I agree with a certain filer’s recommendation or condemnation.
@kathodus There’s no dissent here 😉
It is interesting how varied people’s takes are here – there are definitely people I am more in tune with than others, but it’s always enlightening to hear others opinions.
Seveneves is still awful, though ?
@robinareid
Have you read her mysteries (published variously under A. J. Orde and B. J Oliphant—hope I haz the initials straight!).
Wait, she wrote mysteries? ::scrambles to check Amazon::
Cool, you got the initials right and I haz more on the TBR!
Some of my other fave Tepper books besides Fresco are Beauty, Singers from the Sea, Plague of Angels and Gate to Women’s Country.
I’m reading Seveneves at the moment and I like it.
I suppose the impulse to answer a sealion comes from the worry that there are casual lurkers around who may occasionally read this column looking for more info about the latest scandal. They may see this person making apparently polite inquiries and raising reasonable-sounding doubts and (not knowing the history) they may think that if the inquiries are dismissed (rudely or not) without an answer, then maybe the polite-seeming inquirer has a point. Hence the impulse for the person thoroughly aware through experience of the speciousness of the questions and the bad faith of the inquirer to answer the questions again anyway, one more time.
JJ asked:
That’s ultimately a question for Mike, but I’m seeing either news or useful tips about the business or craft of writing. Was there something new about the Sad Puppies in the Paulk post? Did you feel that it contained important tips that you would like to see more writers take to heart? Was there any reason for linking to it other than to go, “Look! Sucky person still sucks!”?
You ask this in the same thread where there is discussion about banning someone?
Petréa Mitchell: Was there something new about the Sad Puppies in the Paulk post? Did you feel that it contained important tips that you would like to see more writers take to heart? Was there any reason for linking to it other than to go, “Look! Sucky person still sucks!”?Was there something new about the Sad Puppies in the Paulk post? Did you feel that it contained important tips that you would like to see more writers take to heart? Was there any reason for linking to it other than to go, “Look! Sucky person still sucks!”?
I linked to it, because like most of the Puppy stuff, it is tangentially related to what we discuss here. You don’t agree. Good for you. You’re certainly allowed to express your opinion, just as I am allowed to dismiss it.
For those people disagreeing on whether THE DICK CAVETT SHOW was an afternoon show or a late-night show, the answer is yes.
It was also a a morning show, a prime-time show, an early evening show and more.
Dick Cavett made a lot of TV.
I don’t think File 770 is limited to that, or ever has been. Surely it’s mostly aimed at fans/readers, not primarily at professionals and would-be professionals who want useful tips about business and craft. However many pros and would-be pros are among the ranks of fans.
Banning a potentially-disruptive commenter, not banning blog content.
Lela: I agree with Rob Thornton that the SP list was not a slate. A few people may have voted it as a slate (I believe our old friend the Phantom did), but it did not have enough influence that it would really make sense to talk of ‘defeating’ it. When I say that the slate was defeated, I mean the RP slate.
I think the way fandom works almost inevitably creates ‘unintentional slates’, File 770 being just one of the places where this happens; since we can’t all read everything, we need to rely to a large extent on recommendations, and those will tend to focus people’s attention on a subset of the available works. The difference between this and organised slates – apart from the fact that the unintentional ones don’t have nearly as much convergence – is that what is being recommended is not, in the first instance, things to vote for, but things to read (which may or may not lead to voting for them).
And I think this is on the whole a good thing. I’m not sure the Hugos would work without this kind of convergence; you would get either two hundred works each with five nominations, or people clustering around the authors and series they are already fans of. That kind of result would be more diverse in one way – more groups of voters represented – but might actually be less diverse in another, since it will tend to go more for established favourites and less for interesting new things.
It looks, from the results we have so far, that while EPH may break up very tight ‘unintentional slates’, created by fans of a particular TV series or the like, it won’t work against this kind of convergence at the level where it’s likely to happen – or if it does, 5/6 will probably correct any problem this causes.
Cheryl S:
Nobody asked me either, but I read more children’s books than YA, probably because YA seems more specifically niche than that for children.
That’s largely been my experience too, but I feel that nowadays YA is branching out more: also it is gobbling up part of the traditional children’s sector, which gives it more variety. (I still think that fans have a tendency to call stuff YA even when it is in fact marketed as middle grade/children’s; but some stuff that used to be middle grade/children’s is actually moving to YA. I discovered recently, when reading The Shepherd’s Crown, that Terry Pratchett’s publishers now think of all his juvenile works as YA: the Tiffany Aching books are well established as such, but I’m sure the Bromeliad and the Johnny books used to be children’s.)
Petréa, I’ve been pondering this and come to the conclusion that I think of file770 as not just for interesting and useful links, but as a place of record of the ideas and opinions expessed in fandom. There’s no necessity for comment, and perhaps in this case it would be best left unremarked on, but it’s here and isn’t so easy to overlook in the future when creating a history.
Mike, thank you for creating and maintaining this resources.
@Petréa, I’m with you here. I’m deeply uncomfortable with gathering to vent steam against a target. Even if it’s a deserving target, going back again and again to find something outrageous to vent steam over is… very understandable; not very helpful.
The others are right, of course, that there’s a fine line between “updates relevant to our interests” and “here’s a ludicrous thing a Sad Puppy wrote.” Still, the fact that it’s a highly mockable target doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to go ahead and mock them. I don’t think it’s a nice thing to do, and it tends to be yet another step in the vicious circle of animosity.
That being said, I can’t really go around scolding internet conversations for being disrespectful or nonproductive. That’s a bit of a lost cause :-/ But it is nice when the topic comes up occasionally, to remind myself that I’m not alone in this.
In commiseration and appreciation, I shall attempt to embed my perennial YouTube favorite; CGP Grey’s “This Video Will Make You Angry.”
ETA: No, I apparently do not know how to embed YouTube videos here.
@Standback: Yes you do know how. It’s really quite simple: just copy and paste the YouTube URL. The catch is that it won’t embed the video during the edit window, so at first it’ll just look like you have a link.