The Puppies Who Walked Into Walls 6/4

aka The Genre That Day Stood Still

In the roundup today: Craig R., L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright, Sanford Begley, George R.R. Martin, Sarah A. Hoyt, Brad K. Horner, Lis Carey, Patrick May, William Reichard, Fred Kiesche and mysterious others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Daniel Dern and Glenn Hauman.)

Craig R. on Boston Progressive

“’Just this one teensy, tiny little change…’” – June 4

One of the great divides in SF/F right now is between groups of readers that want to claim SF and Fantasy as purely descriptive entertainment, the epitome of escape literature, just living in shared authorial moments of the storyteller entertaining us at the fair, or in the tavern, with no other motive express, implied or accepted. You pays your pennies on the drumhead for the entertainment and that’s all you want to see and hear.

On the other side of the table or those who say that all stories have some ulterior external dimension, some subtext,  some “message.”  There is no choice, there is always subtext, whether the author means for inclusion or not.  It is inevitable.

In the Interests Of Full Disclosure, I will tell you that I belong in the second camp: not from any skill at analysis, nor any training in critical literature theory, just cause it seems like the way things are.

From my viewpoint, the very act of reaching for the ability to entertain, or the ability to make any kind of contact with the intended audience requires an assumption of commonality of fundamental background points.

L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright interview for Superversive SF

“Interview with Hugo Nominee: Arlan Andrews, Sr.!” – June 4

1) All the Sad Puppies selections came from a list of stories that fans felt were their favorites from 2014. What about your story do you think brought it to the attention of whomever suggested it?

Presumably, because they liked the setting, the characters, and the story of my novella, “Flow.” “Flow” was the sequel to 2013’s “Thaw,” (the cover for which won the Analog Reader’s Award for Best Cover of 2013).  The whole series of stories takes place after the next Ice Age (a politically incorrect supposition in itself), and the protagonist, Rist, is himself quite politically incorrect, though dark-skinned; he is a diminutive, sexist smartass (as are most males in the primitive society in which he was raised) and his mouth gets him literally into deep shit.  The story, actually a vignette, ends in a (literal) cliff-hanger that will be followed by “Fall,” where Rist descends into yet another kind of society existing some 30,000 years from now.  It will likely be called non-PC as well, though I have to remind people that authors are not necessarily the same as their characters.

 

Alex on Ada’s Technical Books and Cafe

“Madeline Ashby: Fiction Writer and Futurist” – June 4

One particularly poignant statement we both picked up on was made in the context of the controversy surrounding the 2015 Hugo Awards. Madeline [Ashby] said that we all have a tendency to “presume people think like (we) do, but generally, they don’t.” Though perhaps a bit of an obvious statement, I think it is equally powerful. Whether positively or negatively, humans must regularly navigate the disparity between our processes of thinking. Imbuing your actions with a recognition of difference may be a way to bridge gaps between people approaching a conflict in different ways, or at least a way to mitigate frustration when questionable (or outright despicable) decisions are made.

 

Alanaburke.com

“Local editor earns prestigious science fiction/fantasy award nomination – Ottawaherald.com” – June 4

“I was quite stunned and surprised [when I first heard] frankly due to the fact that I’ve just been executing this for concerning 6 years and I’ve just got four anthologies under my belt,” Schmidt said. “I’m relatively new, so to me it seemed earlier in my job compared to I would certainly have actually expected for something adore that to happen. I was thrilled and humbled at the exact same time that people believe I’m great enough to receive a nomination due to the fact that it is a fairly prestigious award. There was a great deal of excitement and happiness mixed in there as well.”

That happiness will certainly travel along with Schmidt to Spokane, Washington, where the awards will certainly be presented Aug. 22 at the 73rd Globe Science Fiction Convention. The Hugo Awards, named after pioneering science fiction magazine “Incredible Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback, are provided annually for the very best science fiction and fantasy functions of the previous year, according to a news release.

 

Sanford Begley on The Otherwhere Gazette

“The Puppies need to thank these recruiters”

The Sad Puppies really do need to thank some people who are not of their number. I’ve been watching this fiasco as someone who is in sympathy with the SP movement without being one myself. The truth for the rank and file SP members is basically that they were informed that they could vote on the Hugos and actually get books they liked on the ballot. From the point of view of the rank and file Puppies this was information on how-to and some recommendations they could follow, but were not required to. Most of the rank and file used some of the suggestions and substituted others as they saw fit. Admittedly this did cause those who did not have enough recommendations in their own reading to use the list as a source for filling out the rest of the nominations. After all, they knew a bit about Brad Torgerson and Larry Correia and could rely on them to suggest good books. Which they could then read in the voter packet and vote upon.

[This author needs to correct a tendency to misspell everybody’s name – “Brad Torgerson,” “Teresa Nielson Hayden,” “Patrick Hayden Nielson,” “Betsy Wolheim,” “N.K. Jemison.” I leave aside one other that was clearly intentional, but always remember, intentional misspellings are meaningless when true errors abound.]

 

George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog

“Catching Up” – June 4

— Conquest was cool. The KC fen throw a great con. And I was heartened by all the people who came up to thank me for my posts about the Hugos. Even in the nation’s heartland, it seems, there is considerable fannish anger about the Sad and Rabid Puppies pooping on our awards,

— Yes, Puppygate has continued, though I’ve been too busy to post about it. The Sad Puppies continue to be clueless, moving their goalposts almost daily. The Rabid Puppies continue to be venomous. Lots of other people are reading the Hugo nominees and reviewing the finalists. That’s what I am doing myself, though I am way behind in my reading,

 

Sarah A. Hoyt

“The Condescension of the Elites” – June 4

In fact, if one wades into the Sad Puppy mess (here, wear galoshes. You’ll need it) the side that says things like “You’re not true fans” or “your tastes are just low” or “your writing is bad” or “Our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” or “you’ll never work in this town again” or “for daring talk against us, you’ll never win a Hugo” is not the Puppy supporters.

This is because the “power” at least if understood as traditional publishing power, in this field is NOT from puppy supporters. The people opposing the puppies (not their lickspittles running around blogs shouting the crumbs that fall from their masters’ tables) are powers in the field: well established editors with power of the purse; writers who get publicity campaigns and push and huge advances; critics who have for years been reviewing the “well regarded” stuff and establishing a taste that is Marxism with a mix of glitterati, or in other words, positional good leftism.

You’d think that people who have been extensively indoctrinated in Marxism would understand the difference between “establishment power” and “economic power” and the revolutionaries who come in saying “But you’ve been going wrong by alienating the reading public; we don’t give a hot damn what your political opinions are, but you need to tell stories people want to read, and if you don’t people should be able to participate in the intervention to make you see why your print runs keep falling.”

I.e. they would understand that they are in fact on the side that is being condescending by virtue of having all the power in the field, including power of the purse.

 

Brad K. Horner

“Flight of the Kikayon: A Sci-Fi Novelette by Kary English” – June 4

My rating: 4 of 5 stars

This is a crisp and gloriously clear adventure story of a woman trying to escape her abusive husband with the help of her clone. I was touched. It really had heart.

Of course, the planet where she eventually wound up, swiss family robinson style, had one hell of a fascinating sea monster in it, so that’s a huge plus.

The story made me think about love and children, but not exclusively, and not oppressively. It was warming, not frantic, and I really enjoyed the ride. Crisp and gloriously clear sums it up very nicely, from writing, to imagery, to themes. Nothing was out of place and it felt inevitable. Which is very strange, considering that she wound up stranded and losing everything. Who am I to argue about the vagaries of fate or authorship?

I read this in preparation for the Campbell nomination of 2015, and I’m proud to say I read it, regardless. It shines.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“The Sci Phi Show, presented by Jason Rennie” – June 3

The Sci Phi Show discusses major philosophers and schools of philosophy illuminated in science fiction, fairly broadly defined. In the sample episode, it’s Nietzsche and the movie The Dark Knight. It’s an intelligent, thoughtful discussion, with good production values, accompanied by odd, distracting sound effects. There’s also opening and closing theme music that tries hard to give me a headache.

 

Patrick May

“2015 Hugo Award Novella Category” – June 4

[Each nominee is analyzed, then this conclusion — ]

My Hugo ballot for this category is:

  1. Flow
  2. Big Boys Don’t Cry
  3. The Plural of Helen of Troy
  4. No Award
  5. One Bright Start to Guide Them
  6. Pale Realms of Shade

Aside from the first two, the entries in this category are disappointing. There were far better novellas published in 2014 in Analog and Asimov’s alone. “Big Boys Don’t Cry”, while not as good as “Flow”, is certainly no worse than some nominees and winners in the past. I’m leaving “The Plural of Helen of Troy” slightly above No Award solely because Wright plays with (and occasionally loses to) some classic science fiction concepts. Overall it’s not really Hugo worthy, though.

 

William Reichard

“Apres Hugo” – June 4

After a lively day of schussing down the slippery slopes of unwinnable arguments, you’re pleasantly stupefied. Now you just want to relax and kick back, are we right?

That’s why when you get back to the toasty comfort of your own ideological hearth, you should reach for Hubik.

Hubik has everything a tired mind craves: a refreshing illusion of efficacy, a promise of persistent meaning, and a soothing anesthetic effect that will help you drift off to an untroubled sleep. Just spray a little around your armchair, and presto! The perfect ending to another day of lovely mountain sport.…

 

 

 

 

416 thoughts on “The Puppies Who Walked Into Walls 6/4

  1. Ashby’s comment about people not thinking like us–yeah, that’s spot on and works both ways and all ways. Its something I forget at my peril.

    For example, I am still not indoctrinated in Marxism, no matter what Ms. Hoyt thinks.

  2. It may be that my brain is tired from two days at Origins Game Fair… but I’m struggling to parse Hoyt’s post. Did someone accuse her of being condescending?

    So when I say that weakly attached hangers-on and lickspittles are running out to act as trolls on any blog that even mentions the puppies, and keep repeating the same accusations (“slate”, “bought votes”, “bad writing”, “not true fans”) regardless of how many time those are disproven is not factually any different whether I say it condescendingly or not.

    Did I miss where someone disproved that many of the puppy-slate stories were “bad writing”?
    Did I miss where the non-puppies have told puppies, “You’re not true fans” ?

    no matter how much you bellow and thrash around and send your hangers on to call us names

    Haven’t they been the ones calling us names? An alphabet soup of made-up names?
    Didn’t she call us a half-dozen names in that post alone?

  3. “Did I miss where someone disproved that many of the puppy-slate stories were “bad writing”?”

    You haven’t been here that long, have you?

    “Did I miss where the non-puppies have told puppies, “You’re not true fans” ?”

    Haven’t been to Making Light that often since the nominations were announced, have you?

  4. “But you’ve been going wrong by alienating the reading public; we don’t give a hot damn what your political opinions are, but you need to tell stories people want to read”

    And if that was already happening? But they just weren’t stories the puppies wanted to read? What then? We have to suddenly be locked into slate v. slate for the rest of eternity?

  5. For example, I am still not indoctrinated in Marxism, no matter what Ms. Hoyt thinks.

    Sir, are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?

    This Marxism business is a ridiculous claim, but it isn’t a new ridiculous claim. Tying together Marxism and Feminism (and now SJWism), and using that connection as a means of attacking the latter, is old hat.

  6. Katya: Did I miss where someone disproved that many of the puppy-slate stories were “bad writing”?

    Andrew P: You haven’t been here that long, have you?

    I haven’t seen this disproven here. But then, I’m sure you will be happy to provide citations.

    Katya: Did I miss where the non-puppies have told puppies, “You’re not true fans”?

    Andrew P: Haven’t been to Making Light that often since the nominations were announced, have you?

    I haven’t seen that claim made on Making Light, either. But then, I’m sure you will be happy to provide citations for that, too.

  7. That article from alanaburke.com becomes much more readable if you assume that it was originally written in a language other than English, and then translated either by a machine or by a person who doesn’t really understand English, or perhaps that parts of it were translated from English imperfectly into and back out of another language. Try replacing some of the adjectives with a different choice from a thesaurus.

    “I’ve just been executing this for concerning 6 years”

    makes much more sense if you replace “concerning” with “about”, which is superficially a synonym, but not quite, in this context. Similarly with the adjective in

    science fiction magazine “Incredible Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback

    . The whole thing is reminiscent of Mark Twain’s The Jumping Frog: In English, Then in French, and Then Clawed Back Into A Civilized Language Once More by Patient, Unremunerated Toil

  8. @Katya: “Didn’t she call us a half-dozen names in that post alone?”

    It’s ok if she does it. She’s being accurate. If you do it, you’re being petty and engaging in the Alinskyite tactics of separation and destruction.

    @Andrew P: “Haven’t been to Making Light that often since the nominations were announced, have you?”

    I have, and I’ve not seen it. May be an oversight on my part. There was a whole thing on the “trufan” term, but that’s an actual differet term with a distinct meaning.

  9. Can i just say, on behalf of lickspittles everywhere, that Ms. Hoyt’s comments are inappropriate.

  10. Katya: I believe that there have been Aristotelian proofs of the Rhetorical goodness of all of the puppy works (Lies and unsupported assertions, in case you’ve been fortunate enough to miss Vox’s rhetoricing). A couple of the works from the slates are possibly decent enough to make the hugo ballot on their own merits, but its possible that they just look better in contrast to the majority of the crap on the slate.

    Andrew P: Nobody at making light has told the puppies that they’re not true fans. they have discussed the various uses of the term Fandom, the description trufans (a term which is deliberately given a custom spelling to indicate that it is not a claim that “true fans” and “trufans” are interchangeable or equal terms, in much the same way that use of the term SMOF does not indicate a belief that the person described is actually a member of a secret cabal that controls fandom). I’d expect you to understand this if you’d read the discussion on making light, but it is likely its just due to your incredibly poor comprehension of the English language.

  11. I never cease to be amazed at the lack of pride the Puppies seem to have in making their blog posts clear, logical, and readable. Hoyt’s posts especially are exemplars of near-unintelligible, irrational babble.

    And that paragraph from Bryan Thomas Schmidt? That is staggering in its inarticulacy. I will be interested to see what sort of job he does as an editor.

  12. ““Did I miss where someone disproved that many of the puppy-slate stories were “bad writing”?”

    As an addendum to the above:
    Its subjective. To say/pretend otherwise assumes a level of pretentiousness that approaches Beale like proportions. For as many good reviews as I’ve read of The Goblin Emperor and Three Body Problem, I’ve read just as many from people saying the books didn’t do it for them, for a variety of reasons. Same thing with many of the short stories and other works.

    Are some of the nominated stories bad by my standards? Yes. But I can say that about the Hugos for every year I’ve been reading SF. Other people have too, there’s been No Award votes in every category every year it seems.

    If your judging what your read fairly by your standards, noone should say your doing it wrong. Same standard applies to those who come to a different conclusion about a story that you don’t like.

  13. From the Begley: “A special mention to Mike Glyer, his attempt to be reasonable for a leftist has made him a less effective Puppy recruiter, but the unchecked comments on his blog more than made up for it.”

    Wait, I thought the problem was that this was a moderated forum, and moderation is EVIL.

    ” The Pups are overwhelmingly independent and contrarian in nature.”

    Oh yes, of course. When the full nominations come out, I’m going to be interested to see just strongly these overwhelmingly independent and contrarian Pups adhered to the SP/ RP slates. I also like how these “overwhelmingly independent” Pups apparently can be driven to something so easily by someone else disagreeing with them.

  14. The Puppy campaign is predicated on a lie and an insult to fans. Namely, that we disregarded things that we liked in favor of what was politically correct. Everything that has happened to the Puppies is a reaction to this blatant, unfounded lie and until they retract it they simply can’t complain that they have been insulted when they started the whole campaign with insults. At this point they deserve every bit of scorn they get. Hoyt reacts to what she wants to be true, rather than what the facts on the ground are.

  15. “Nobody at making light has told the puppies that they’re not true fans…”

    Well, I interpreted TNH’s comments differently than you did.

    JJ,

    If Larry, Brad, or any other SP told you the sky was blue or water was wet, you’d ask for a cite.
    I’m not playing that game, as I know you’ve read many of the same threads I have. You’re comfortable with your biases and beliefs, and I’m not going to waste any time or energy trying change them. I’ve better, more productive things to do.

  16. snowcrash: When the full nominations come out, I’m going to be interested to see just strongly these overwhelmingly independent and contrarian Pups adhered to the SP/ RP slates. I also like how these “overwhelmingly independent” Pups apparently can be driven to something so easily by someone else disagreeing with them.

    I know; isn’t that Begley piece hilarious?

    “Pups are overwhelmingly independent and contrarian in nature. The only real way to drive them in a direction is an attempt to drive them in another.”

    In other words, Puppies are as easy to manipulate as small children..

  17. Andrew P: If Larry, Brad, or any other SP told you the sky was blue or water was wet, you’d ask for a cite. I’m not playing that game

    Yes, Andrew, that is how adults engage in reasoned dialogue. If they make assertions or allegations, they are able to back these statements up with proof.

    And of course you’re “not playing that game” — because no one has said these things, and there aren’t any citations which will back up what you’re saying.

  18. “When the full nominations come out, I’m going to be interested to see just strongly these overwhelmingly independent and contrarian Pups adhered to the SP/ RP slates.”

    I suspect a lot of them voted like I did, they read the works on the slate, nominated to ones they liked, and nominated other works they liked as well.

    “I also like how these “overwhelmingly independent” Pups apparently can be driven to something so easily by someone else disagreeing with them.”

    Well, that’s not a trait exclusive to the SP side…I haven’t seen such frothing at the mouth reactions since Cujo.

  19. From the Sanford Begley post:

    You see,what these scathingly brilliant leaders of the Insulata failed to realize was the basic nature of the Puppies.

    First of all, I had to lookup Insulata. Apparently, everybody posting in the File 770 comment section is some kind of moth. Who knew? Of course, I know what he really means. I also learned something else new today. It is possible to have enough gall to accuse your opponents of being Insulata while referring to TNH as the “Toad of Tor”. Of course, the leaders he exalts refers to their opponents as Puppy-kickers, morlocks, anarchist, nihlists and CHORFs, just pick just a few.

  20. “Yes, Andrew, that is how adults engage in reasoned dialogue.”

    Cite please.

    Oh come on, you walked into that one.

  21. I was trying to think of a coherent response to Hoyt, but Chadwick nailed it for me.

  22. Katya: “Did I miss where the non-puppies have told puppies, “You’re not true fans” ?”

    It is apparently incredibly easy to miss–I evidently missed MYSELF saying it! I wrote something on my FB wall about the Puppies, slates, bad behavior, lack of professionalism, etc.

    And someone posted a shriek on my wall angry that I had called him a “wrongfan.”

    I looked and looked, and never saw where I said that. (In that comment or, indeed, anywhere else, ever, at any time in my life.) Yet a PUPPY declared I HAD said it, so it MUST be true. In Puppyspeak, that is.

  23. Did I miss where the non-puppies have told puppies, “You’re not true fans” ?

    There has been some of that here. It isn’t a common sentiment. When it shows up someone makes an attempt to shoot it down. What the Puppies miss here, is that this same BS argument gets thrown around every time there is a kerfluffle, sometimes by both sides. This time is no exception. Just as some people have accused the Puppies of not being “real fans”, the Puppies have used their own version of the argument. Usually, it goes with accusing SJWs of putting their political message before science fiction, or not having any appreaction for “real science fiction”.

  24. In fact, if one wades into the Sad Puppy mess (here, wear galoshes. You’ll need it) the side that says things like “You’re not true fans” or “your tastes are just low” or “your writing is bad” or “Our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” or “you’ll never work in this town again” or “for daring talk against us, you’ll never win a Hugo” is not the Puppy supporters.

    Does she seriously not understand that the PUPPIES have leaders. The rest of us… don’t.

    And the writing in 90% of the Puppy noms is bad. Just bad, man. I’m wholly in favor of military SF, hard SF, space opera, war stories… but this stuff is terrible. It’s badly written. It needs a skilled editor, and several passes at bare minimum!

    Sure, it’s subjective, and I’ve yet to see anyone here in 770 yell at anyone else that their opinion is invalid. Or that they’re not a “real” fan (except in cases where Puppies have literally told us they don’t read or don’t like sf! In which case they are literally not fans!) but by and whole, what I’ve seen is that people who read them don’t like them. I’ve seen very few reviews of the works by people who actually claim to have read and then liked them.

    But I sure do see a lot of barking, namecalling, insulting of our “low” tastes (affirmative action fiction!) and “you guys aren’t fans of the right stuff!” coming from the Puppy side. Hoyt is apparently teaching a masterclass in it.

  25. Morris Keesan: That article from alanaburke.com becomes much more readable if you assume that it was originally written in a language other than English, and then translated either by a machine or by a person who doesn’t really understand English, or perhaps that parts of it were translated from English imperfectly into and back out of another language.

    You know what, I think you’re right. I think that’s a bot site. Whois says it’s registered in Italy, and here’s the original article from the Ottawa Herald, and it definitely looks as though some translation/reverse translation from/to English was done.

    The Ottawa Herald site requires registration, but here’s how the text in their article compares to the article on alanaburke.com:

    AB: “I was quite stunned and surprised [when I first heard] frankly due to the fact that I’ve just been executing this for concerning 6 years and I’ve just got four anthologies under my belt,” Schmidt said. “I’m relatively new, so to me it seemed earlier in my job compared to I would certainly have actually expected for something adore that to happen. I was thrilled and humbled at the exact same time that people believe I’m great enough to receive a nomination due to the fact that it is a fairly prestigious award. There was a great deal of excitement and happiness mixed in there as well.”

    OH: “I was pretty shocked and surprised [when I first heard] frankly because I’ve only been doing this for about six years and I’ve only got four anthologies under my belt,” Schmidt said. “I’m relatively new, so to me it seemed earlier in my career than I would have expected for something like that to happen. I was thrilled and humbled at the same time that people think I’m good enough to receive a nomination because it is a very prestigious award. There was a lot of excitement and happiness mixed in there as well.”

    AB: That happiness will certainly travel along with Schmidt to Spokane, Washington, where the awards will certainly be presented Aug. 22 at the 73rd Globe Science Fiction Convention. The Hugo Awards, named after pioneering science fiction magazine “Incredible Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback, are provided annually for the very best science fiction and fantasy functions of the previous year, according to a news release.

    OH: That happiness will travel with Schmidt to Spokane, Washington, where the awards will be presented Aug. 22 at the 73rd World Science Fiction Convention. The Hugo Awards, named after pioneering science fiction magazine “Amazing Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback, are given annually for the best science fiction and fantasy works of the previous year, according to a news release.

    So I take back what I said about Schmidt’s inarticulacy in that article.

    But I do think it’s hilarious that he sent the Ottawa Herald a press release about himself.

  26. I have to wonder how Hoyt squares this:

    are powers in the field: well established editors with power of the purse; writers who get publicity campaigns and push and huge advances;

    with this:

    But you’ve been going wrong by alienating the reading public; we don’t give a hot damn what your political opinions are, but you need to tell stories people want to read, and if you don’t people should be able to participate in the intervention to make you see why your print runs keep falling.”

    Does she think that there is a money fairy that hands out the power of the purse, publicity campaigns, and large advances to editors and authors who put out material that is not popular? That people don’t want to read? Every time I read anything by Hoyt, she seems more incoherent than before, and at this point this is becoming quite the feat for her to accomplish.

  27. Sarah Hoyt may be a better fantasy writer than anyone knew. What she describes appears to be another planet.

    Then again, it’s not that convincing a planet…

  28. Mike, I think it’s unfair to Bryan Thomas Schmidt to leave up the text and a link to a bot-mangled version of the original Ottawa Herald article — it makes him look incoherent and supports a site that exists through IP theft. (A Google search for the quoted phrase “Local editor earns prestigious science fiction/fantasy award nomination” finds at least two other bot-mangled versions.) I suggest replacing it with excerpts from the original article, as provided by JJ above, with a link to the full article (even though it requires registration) and a note explaining the change.

  29. @Andrew P.

    Andrew P: If Larry, Brad, or any other SP told you the sky was blue or water was wet, you’d ask for a cite. I’m not playing that game

    Uh, okay. Just c’mon in and leave your unfounded, unproven accusations all over the floor here, then accuse us of being sloppy housekeepers. Cool. No need to act like an adult.

  30. When she is talking about her “back in Portugal” experiences, she at least writes coherent, if unverifiable and dubious, anecdotes. She then fails to connect them to situations in the present, and provides a bunch of unsupported assertions intermixed with unvarnished lies, with no real connection between one thought and the next.

  31. Does Hoyt have anything to say about the threats and doxxing coming from the Puppies side? Does she touch on Brad Torgersen straight up lying about Juliette Wade’s motivations for declining a slate spot right under her nose? Does she say anything about all that messagefic the Puppies got on the ballot?

  32. So, I took a few days off to visit Japan with my partner-in-socialinjusticeworrying and I come back to find that the Puppies are still bottom-sniffing frauds who are incapable of backing up their claims, that Sarah Hoyt still writes like someone who resents the English language, and that pseudo-conservative grievance-mongering is still as pitifully dishonest and ill-written as always.

    Did I miss anything of interest, or have I summarized the state of play reasonably accurately?

  33. @socialinjusticeworrier

    arah Hoyt still writes like someone who resents the English language

    Everything else to the side, this phrase is awesome

  34. @SocialInjusticeWarrior: No, that’s a fairly accurate summary. The Puppies are getting more incoherent and more dishonest with each passing day, so there’s that to look forward to.

  35. Socialinjusticeworrier:Did I miss anything of interest, or have I summarized the state of play reasonably accurately?

    Lou Antonelli outed himself as a doxxer, Jeffro has been a polite and amiable fellow, and Sarah Monette might be getting pressured into writing a cheese-centric novel in The Goblin Emperor’s setting.

  36. Socialinjusticeworrier: And Alexandra Erin’s Sad Puppies Review Books series continues to be excellent.

  37. @Aaron

    The Puppies are getting more incoherent and more dishonest with each passing day

    Is there a point of Maximum Puppy, when further canine dishonesty and evasion is no longer possible, or are we caught in Zeno’s Puppydox as the rabid microhordes get halfway across the remaining distance to their goal at each step, but can never actually attain it?

  38. It’s actually the Puppies who are the Marxists.

    Their agent of change is a subaltern proletariat—those workaday beer-money fans who have gone unheard and who must be organized by an intellectual caste into a fighting force.

    Puppy Leaders take the form of an advance vanguard of leaders who use democratic centralism in the form of slates, and cadre-only decisions to compose the slates, to exercise political power to a greater extent than their numbers would otherwise suggest. Though a numerical minority, they are the practical majority—just like, literally, the Bolsheviks (“majority” faction).

    Their aesthetic is socialist realism—wary of experimental fiction, ambiguity, future pessimism, and all the “pink” stuff, the Puppies want meat-and-potato writing, clear and even didactic moralistic themes, and future optimism.

    Work is secondary, position is primary: thus Puppies frequently demand to know why writers like Jim Butcher and Kevin J. Anderson haven’t gotten Hugos before, since they are so popular. Actually explanations for why the particular books on the slates are important and award-worthy never seem to be made. It’s pure proletkult: what is liked by the masses is the best.

    A common Puppy theme is that writers who haven’t earned Hugo nominations previously should get them, and that a broader fandom should be able to enjoy seeing their favorite writers win awards. For a group of people who sniff at “participation medals”, this demand is essentially that: mass redistribution of wealth in a reputation economy.

    There’s a red star rising over Spokane, comrades! Forget the term puppy, we should be calling Brad and Larry Belka and Strelka!

  39. @XS

    Sarah Monette might be getting pressured into writing a cheese-centric novel

    A truwriter would need no pressure to center her every novel around cheese. And bacon. And coffee. She could call the next installment The Gobbling Emperor…

    Of course, the logic of these basic requirements for the truwriter would imply that all trunovels have three centers, which, given that a body should have only one center, that would mean all trunovels suffer from a three body problem….

  40. SocialInjusticeWorrier: Is there a point of Maximum Puppy, when further canine dishonesty and evasion is no longer possible, or are we caught in Zeno’s Puppydox as the rabid microhordes get halfway across the remaining distance to their goal at each step, but can never actually attain it?

    Approaching Pupfinity

  41. SocialInjusticeWorrier
    “A truwriter would need no pressure to center her every novel around cheese. And bacon. And coffee. She could call the next installment The Gobbling Emperor…”

    You owe me a new Tablet. And you woke up my wife.

  42. SIW

    Well, the search for further derogatory nicknames continues. I think one new one was Puppy-kickers, initially defined as those who attack those poor, poor, Puppies but in actual usage seems to be everyone who disagrees with the slates.

    Dave Freer came by and dropped some random incoherence, but his writing was on par and as accurate as his statistical analysis – full of unfounded accusations and vague assumptions.

    And as you can see in the commentary from the Puppies, incoherence seems to be bullish, but I don’t think we’ve hit Peak Puppy just yet.

    Oh, and after much pleading and lamentation, Mike has put up a round-up of all the round-up titles used thus far, it’s available at the top under the name The Compleat Litter of Puppy Roundup Titles

  43. Just from the round ups here I can’t tell if Hoyt or Freer ever make articles that don’t begin with unsources accusations to form arguments that have little to do with the criticisms people actually have so that can argue against the thing they made up instead of the thing people are really saying?

    Because I’m starting to get deja vu with each additional linked article by the two. And again they need to get a memo out deciding if they’re fighting against fiction no one is reading or if they’re the underdog against popular authors.

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