aka The Genre That Day Stood Still
In the roundup today: Craig R., L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright, Sanford Begley, George R.R. Martin, Sarah A. Hoyt, Brad K. Horner, Lis Carey, Patrick May, William Reichard, Fred Kiesche and mysterious others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Daniel Dern and Glenn Hauman.)
Craig R. on Boston Progressive
“’Just this one teensy, tiny little change…’” – June 4
One of the great divides in SF/F right now is between groups of readers that want to claim SF and Fantasy as purely descriptive entertainment, the epitome of escape literature, just living in shared authorial moments of the storyteller entertaining us at the fair, or in the tavern, with no other motive express, implied or accepted. You pays your pennies on the drumhead for the entertainment and that’s all you want to see and hear.
On the other side of the table or those who say that all stories have some ulterior external dimension, some subtext, some “message.” There is no choice, there is always subtext, whether the author means for inclusion or not. It is inevitable.
In the Interests Of Full Disclosure, I will tell you that I belong in the second camp: not from any skill at analysis, nor any training in critical literature theory, just cause it seems like the way things are.
From my viewpoint, the very act of reaching for the ability to entertain, or the ability to make any kind of contact with the intended audience requires an assumption of commonality of fundamental background points.
L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright interview for Superversive SF
“Interview with Hugo Nominee: Arlan Andrews, Sr.!” – June 4
1) All the Sad Puppies selections came from a list of stories that fans felt were their favorites from 2014. What about your story do you think brought it to the attention of whomever suggested it?
Presumably, because they liked the setting, the characters, and the story of my novella, “Flow.” “Flow” was the sequel to 2013’s “Thaw,” (the cover for which won the Analog Reader’s Award for Best Cover of 2013). The whole series of stories takes place after the next Ice Age (a politically incorrect supposition in itself), and the protagonist, Rist, is himself quite politically incorrect, though dark-skinned; he is a diminutive, sexist smartass (as are most males in the primitive society in which he was raised) and his mouth gets him literally into deep shit. The story, actually a vignette, ends in a (literal) cliff-hanger that will be followed by “Fall,” where Rist descends into yet another kind of society existing some 30,000 years from now. It will likely be called non-PC as well, though I have to remind people that authors are not necessarily the same as their characters.
Alex on Ada’s Technical Books and Cafe
“Madeline Ashby: Fiction Writer and Futurist” – June 4
One particularly poignant statement we both picked up on was made in the context of the controversy surrounding the 2015 Hugo Awards. Madeline [Ashby] said that we all have a tendency to “presume people think like (we) do, but generally, they don’t.” Though perhaps a bit of an obvious statement, I think it is equally powerful. Whether positively or negatively, humans must regularly navigate the disparity between our processes of thinking. Imbuing your actions with a recognition of difference may be a way to bridge gaps between people approaching a conflict in different ways, or at least a way to mitigate frustration when questionable (or outright despicable) decisions are made.
Alanaburke.com
“Local editor earns prestigious science fiction/fantasy award nomination – Ottawaherald.com” – June 4
“I was quite stunned and surprised [when I first heard] frankly due to the fact that I’ve just been executing this for concerning 6 years and I’ve just got four anthologies under my belt,” Schmidt said. “I’m relatively new, so to me it seemed earlier in my job compared to I would certainly have actually expected for something adore that to happen. I was thrilled and humbled at the exact same time that people believe I’m great enough to receive a nomination due to the fact that it is a fairly prestigious award. There was a great deal of excitement and happiness mixed in there as well.”
That happiness will certainly travel along with Schmidt to Spokane, Washington, where the awards will certainly be presented Aug. 22 at the 73rd Globe Science Fiction Convention. The Hugo Awards, named after pioneering science fiction magazine “Incredible Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback, are provided annually for the very best science fiction and fantasy functions of the previous year, according to a news release.
Sanford Begley on The Otherwhere Gazette
“The Puppies need to thank these recruiters”
The Sad Puppies really do need to thank some people who are not of their number. I’ve been watching this fiasco as someone who is in sympathy with the SP movement without being one myself. The truth for the rank and file SP members is basically that they were informed that they could vote on the Hugos and actually get books they liked on the ballot. From the point of view of the rank and file Puppies this was information on how-to and some recommendations they could follow, but were not required to. Most of the rank and file used some of the suggestions and substituted others as they saw fit. Admittedly this did cause those who did not have enough recommendations in their own reading to use the list as a source for filling out the rest of the nominations. After all, they knew a bit about Brad Torgerson and Larry Correia and could rely on them to suggest good books. Which they could then read in the voter packet and vote upon.
[This author needs to correct a tendency to misspell everybody’s name – “Brad Torgerson,” “Teresa Nielson Hayden,” “Patrick Hayden Nielson,” “Betsy Wolheim,” “N.K. Jemison.” I leave aside one other that was clearly intentional, but always remember, intentional misspellings are meaningless when true errors abound.]
George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog
“Catching Up” – June 4
— Conquest was cool. The KC fen throw a great con. And I was heartened by all the people who came up to thank me for my posts about the Hugos. Even in the nation’s heartland, it seems, there is considerable fannish anger about the Sad and Rabid Puppies pooping on our awards,
— Yes, Puppygate has continued, though I’ve been too busy to post about it. The Sad Puppies continue to be clueless, moving their goalposts almost daily. The Rabid Puppies continue to be venomous. Lots of other people are reading the Hugo nominees and reviewing the finalists. That’s what I am doing myself, though I am way behind in my reading,
Sarah A. Hoyt
“The Condescension of the Elites” – June 4
In fact, if one wades into the Sad Puppy mess (here, wear galoshes. You’ll need it) the side that says things like “You’re not true fans” or “your tastes are just low” or “your writing is bad” or “Our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” or “you’ll never work in this town again” or “for daring talk against us, you’ll never win a Hugo” is not the Puppy supporters.
This is because the “power” at least if understood as traditional publishing power, in this field is NOT from puppy supporters. The people opposing the puppies (not their lickspittles running around blogs shouting the crumbs that fall from their masters’ tables) are powers in the field: well established editors with power of the purse; writers who get publicity campaigns and push and huge advances; critics who have for years been reviewing the “well regarded” stuff and establishing a taste that is Marxism with a mix of glitterati, or in other words, positional good leftism.
You’d think that people who have been extensively indoctrinated in Marxism would understand the difference between “establishment power” and “economic power” and the revolutionaries who come in saying “But you’ve been going wrong by alienating the reading public; we don’t give a hot damn what your political opinions are, but you need to tell stories people want to read, and if you don’t people should be able to participate in the intervention to make you see why your print runs keep falling.”
I.e. they would understand that they are in fact on the side that is being condescending by virtue of having all the power in the field, including power of the purse.
Brad K. Horner
“Flight of the Kikayon: A Sci-Fi Novelette by Kary English” – June 4
My rating: 4 of 5 stars
This is a crisp and gloriously clear adventure story of a woman trying to escape her abusive husband with the help of her clone. I was touched. It really had heart.
Of course, the planet where she eventually wound up, swiss family robinson style, had one hell of a fascinating sea monster in it, so that’s a huge plus.
The story made me think about love and children, but not exclusively, and not oppressively. It was warming, not frantic, and I really enjoyed the ride. Crisp and gloriously clear sums it up very nicely, from writing, to imagery, to themes. Nothing was out of place and it felt inevitable. Which is very strange, considering that she wound up stranded and losing everything. Who am I to argue about the vagaries of fate or authorship?
I read this in preparation for the Campbell nomination of 2015, and I’m proud to say I read it, regardless. It shines.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
“The Sci Phi Show, presented by Jason Rennie” – June 3
The Sci Phi Show discusses major philosophers and schools of philosophy illuminated in science fiction, fairly broadly defined. In the sample episode, it’s Nietzsche and the movie The Dark Knight. It’s an intelligent, thoughtful discussion, with good production values, accompanied by odd, distracting sound effects. There’s also opening and closing theme music that tries hard to give me a headache.
Patrick May
“2015 Hugo Award Novella Category” – June 4
[Each nominee is analyzed, then this conclusion — ]
My Hugo ballot for this category is:
- Flow
- Big Boys Don’t Cry
- The Plural of Helen of Troy
- No Award
- One Bright Start to Guide Them
- Pale Realms of Shade
Aside from the first two, the entries in this category are disappointing. There were far better novellas published in 2014 in Analog and Asimov’s alone. “Big Boys Don’t Cry”, while not as good as “Flow”, is certainly no worse than some nominees and winners in the past. I’m leaving “The Plural of Helen of Troy” slightly above No Award solely because Wright plays with (and occasionally loses to) some classic science fiction concepts. Overall it’s not really Hugo worthy, though.
William Reichard
“Apres Hugo” – June 4
After a lively day of schussing down the slippery slopes of unwinnable arguments, you’re pleasantly stupefied. Now you just want to relax and kick back, are we right?
That’s why when you get back to the toasty comfort of your own ideological hearth, you should reach for Hubik.
Hubik has everything a tired mind craves: a refreshing illusion of efficacy, a promise of persistent meaning, and a soothing anesthetic effect that will help you drift off to an untroubled sleep. Just spray a little around your armchair, and presto! The perfect ending to another day of lovely mountain sport.…
https://twitter.com/ShiftlessBum/status/606575118580482048
https://twitter.com/FredKiesche/status/606530903175778306
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Andrew P – If Larry, Brad, or any other SP told you the sky was blue or water was wet, you’d ask for a cite.
No but if they told me a wolf was nearby I’d require one since they’ve cried it one too many times for me to believe them.
>> they need to get a memo out deciding if they’re fighting against fiction no one is reading or if they’re the underdog against popular authors.>>
Judging from the quotes, they’re fighting against fictional authors no one can read, because they can’t find any trace of them.
Matt Y: I think you’ll find that they’re the underdogs fighting for popular authors who don’t get the sales they deserve against unpopular authors that no one is reading but that get given all the money and the awards anyway because they’re subsidized by the publishers with the profits from other unpopular authors that no one is reading. Rhetorically speaking.
@Glenn Hauman
After reading the Mack piece, I now know more than I had ever planned to about sexuality in the Star Trek universe, which is fine in a spare memory filling sort of way. I also know far more than I ever wanted to about Amanda Green. I think Otto got it right in A Fish Called Wanda:
“Avoid the Green ones. They’re not ripe yet.”
Aaron on June 4, 2015 at 8:14 pm said:
Given recent box office numbers, I have to imagine the money fairy looks like this:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/20/03/27C4412E00000578-3046394-image-a-8_1429498143976.jpg
MickyFinn – I give them credit for being able to continue to argue with both an armful and mouthful of cake.
@MickyFinn
So the overdogs are the underdogs to the underdogs who are overdogs?
The Ayes of the Overdog
(with apologies to Jack Vance, who would, I think, have enjoyed the lunacy and grandiose rhetoric of the Puppy kerfuffle greatly).
“You’re not true fans” … “your tastes are just low” … “our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” … “you’ll never work in this town again” … “for daring talk against us, you’ll never win a Hugo”
I must have read 500,000 words of this crazy mess instead of working on my reading list. I don’t think it’s confirmation bias that I haven’t seen anyone on the anti-slate side of things say *any* of these things. Maybe I missed something.
“your writing is bad”
This I have seen. But when discussing an award given for the quality and originality of one’s writing, it does seem to be on-topic. I wonder at its inclusion among the rest.
Sarah Hoyt still writes like someone who resents the English language
To be fair, English is not her native tongue.
picklefactory – This I have seen. But when discussing an award given for the quality and originality of one’s writing, it does seem to be on-topic. I wonder at its inclusion among the rest.
if we include a real reason among some ridiculous made up ones, made people will think that’s a ridiculous thing as well and mock those who want award nominees to have good writing!
I think I may see the problem.
I looked up Sarah Hoyt on Wikipedia, and her entry started out:
“This article is about the author. For the steamboat, see Sarah Hoyt (sidewheeler).”
Are we sure this isn’t the steamboat blogging? It would explain a lot.
What is Sarah Hoyt’s fixation with Marxism? Is that just her ‘go to’ default? She seems to see it in places where I’d never have made the connection. Are the Marxists that good at subterfuge?
Is Begley older than 14?
As Aaron R. commented, we have said “yup, you’re not a fan” to people who’ve explained how they don’t read f/sf and, in some cases, genuinely don’t care about it at all, and are involved because it’s part of the culture war. We’ve also said things like “yup, you’re a fan of a particular sub-genre, or a few sub-genres” of people who make it clear that they only want to read stuff in one particular sub-genre, or a few sub-genres.
For the rest, I remain fascinated by this right-wing thing of making up accusations that others have called them nasty names and such, and those assertions being immediately taken as fact by their target audience. Rick Perlstein wrote an excellent essay some years ago on how prominent and influential con artists have always been in American movement conservatism; it saddens me to see people voluntarily subject themselves to con artists’ influences, because I prefer my ideological and practical disagreements unleavened by fraud and deceit.
Harold: She’s originally Portuguese, and seems to think that the revolution was the worst thing to ever happen to Portugal, and blame the marxists, in particular for it. (although she did have a anti maoist half anecdote in one of her other posts, so she might apportion some of the blame out to other political parties)
Ummm, uhhhh.
I, uhhh.
I usually have been reading from the bottom of the round-up to the top.
I just read the entire set of posted excerpts.
Ummmm.
To MickyFinn–
Thanks–I’ve browsed through her stuff at times but never made that connection. I was starting to consider her the reincarnation of Ayn Rand. You know, currying favor with alpha males and all that.
But I wonder if she would have been arrested by the authorities without that revolution.
Need some advice: how far into a novel or story counts as giving it a solid chance to develop? I’m about 18 pages into this one and have completely stalled.
Trying to find the balance between torturing myself and being fair.
Harold Osler: What is Sarah Hoyt’s fixation with Marxism?
Well, she might be afraid “from each according to their ability” means she should cut back on her writing.
@Rebekah
I don’t think there’s any hard or fast rules. On average, for books without word of mouth, I give them first 3 chapters/ 100 pages, whichever comes first. If nothing interests me, or worse it’s actively bad, it gets thrown.
@Craig – Congrats!
Rebekah: I’ve met books that damn themselves in about 5 pages, whereas ones that are just unrewarding, I can get half way into before I decide that there is nothing there to read for and give up.
Measuring how much is a solid chance is a matter of total pain, not total of pages.
@Kurt Busiek
Well, she certainly generates a lot of hot air, but to all appearances she’s just spinning her paddle-wheels.
@Rebekah Golden
As a wise man once said: “If they don’t bite when they’re pups, they won’t bite when they’re grown!” I think 18 pages ought to be enough time for an author to show some sort of intent or even competence.
Rebekah Golden: “Need some advice: how far into a novel or story counts as giving it a solid chance to develop? I’m about 18 pages into this one and have completely stalled.”
If it’s Moby Dick, I say you should read a hundred pages before giving up. If it’s Philip K. Dick, I say you should read 25 pages before giving up. If it’s Spotted Dick the Puppy, you’re through already.
The Ruff Guide to Fantasyland
The Bark Lord of Derkholm
House of Many Days
The Lives of Christopher Pant
Fido and Hemlock
Castle in the Airedale
Hexwoof
The Warpuppy And The World’s Pain.
Six Puppies In Search Of An Author
The Fellowship Of The Wingnut
The Testament of Doctor Mahugo
I can’t help thinking that the commentators here have encountered a certain Eldritch Abomination stalking their dreams… – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnV5Yup9JoE
Craig R.: Is Begley older than 14?
Physically, yes. Psychologically — well, the answer to that would seem to be pretty evident.
Note that he’s literally got a dog in this fight — he’s engaged to <cough> Best Fan Writer nominee Cedar Sanderson.
@JJ
I think he’s literally got a metaphorical dog in the fight. Unless Cedar Sanderson is not one of us.
JJ: God knows you’re not the only one, but I have to start somewhere. If I had a fiance I wouldn’t want her referred to as a dog even if she is aligned with the canine literary party. Everyone please back away from the sheer abuse.
SocialInjusticeWorrier: I think he’s literally got a metaphorical dog in the fight. Unless Cedar Sanderson is not one of us.
hee hee hee Ahem. I literally see your point.
Mike Glyer: God knows you’re not the only one, but I have to start somewhere. If I had a fiance I wouldn’t want her referred to as a dog even if she is aligned with the canine literary party. Everyone please back away from the sheer abuse.
My apologies. I was only thinking of “dog” in terms of the fact that she is a Puppy, and was in no way intending it in any other manner. Mea culpa.
@Mike Glyer
I applaud your dogged determination to hound us towards more civilized discourse.
At The Mountains Of Muttness
Hairy Pupper And The Deathly Hugos
Thank you all for your help. I decided to write a very thorough description of what happened and why I stopped reading. So I looked up on my Nook the name of the book/author and went to find it on the Hugo Awards list. Nothing. Then I looked further. It’s a Campbell nominee.
To be able to finish reading/reviewing everything before voting time I was going to skip reading the Campbell nominees. I’m vaguely tempted to add them to my list just to be able to (hopefully) put “Deaths of Tao” at the bottom of the ballot. Ugh, dreck.
My question was about his age!
Really!
I was looking at sentence construction, chaotic and inconsistent spelling, the wierd nicknames (“toad of TOR,” *really?).
Either that or he’s channeling a less profane Kratman.
I am curious where Begley gets the idea that DAW is one of the publishing houses that’s “losing readership”.
No editing past comments? Let me just say then that I regret calling someone’s first novel dreck.
This article is about the author. For the steamboat, see Sarah Hoyt (sidewheeler).”
Are we sure this isn’t the steamboat blogging?
Miss Sarah had a steamboat
The steamboat had a bell!
Miss Sarah went to Heaven,
The steamboat went to — Hello operator!
….I can’t be the only person whose mind went in that direction, can I?
Rebekah: second novel. And frankly, while I didn’t share your reaction to it, I did find it disappointing compared to his first novel. Not sure if it is just the harsh touch of middle book syndrome, or something else, but it really didn’t hold my attention.
Daw might have been struggling a bit ten years ago, but Rothfuss and to a lesser extent McGuire and to an even lesser extent being less gullible with those awful Tekno Books theme anthologies have given Daw quite a boost in recent times. Begley just manufactured his claim.
Days of Whine and Poses
Sad Packs: Furry Road (did someone suggest this on another thread? )
@Nick Mamatas
I enjoyed your comments about Puppies and Marxism.
I’m sure the thread title is meant to echo The Cat Who, etc, but the change in preposition makes me think instead of Roddy Doyle.
@Mike – Love the post title!
I’m struggling to understand why L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright would go on at length about her “politically incorrect” plot points and characters in a clear effort to call attention to them, and then scold people for not remembering “that authors are not necessarily the same as their characters.”
I guess I just don’t understand if she’s being super defensive or if she’s trying to establish her Puppy cred with all her “politically incorrect” comments.
“To be fair, English is not [Hoyt’s] native tongue.”
I work with many writers for whom English is not a native language, and Hoyt’s work looks very different. The former can be rather clumsy in grammatical structure but usually take huge pains to use the correct vocabulary. The latter seems to suffer from excess adrenaline, not lack of familiarity with English.
English wasn’t Conrad’s or Nabokov’s native language, yet they mastered it.
msb: English wasn’t Conrad’s or Nabokov’s native language, yet they mastered it.
And Hoyt’s been in the U.S. since, what? 1985?
I don’t think English As A Second Language is the cause of the irrationality and inarticulacy of Hoyt’s posts.
SIW: a point of Maximum Puppy
Peke Oil?