Opinion Piece by Colin Harris (Co-Chair, 2005 Worldcon): Chengdu’s bid to host the 2023 Worldcon has caused much debate and not a little hand-wringing. With reports of up to 3,000 ballots being cast in Site Selection, and the likelihood that China will be hosting the Worldcon in 20 months’ time, this debate is only going to intensify.
There is no doubt that a Chinese Worldcon (like a Saudi Arabian Worldcon, had the 2022 Jeddah bid succeeded) raises serious questions, not least around human rights and the safety of attendees. People will have strong views on the degree to which it is appropriate for the Worldcon to be hosted in such locations, but I would like to put that aside and ask some broader questions about the nature of Worldcon – past and future.
A Brief History of Worldcon. From its origin in 1939, the Worldcon was as global as the World Series; indeed the name came about through association with the New York World’s Fair rather than any intention to create a truly international convention.
For much of its subsequent history, zoning rules then controlled the event’s location, as it rotated by default between the Western, Central and Eastern United States. Occasionally, an overseas bid would take the event outside North America – starting in 1957 with Loncon (London, UK). By 2000, there had been 10 such Worldcons in total (5 in the UK, 3 in Australia, 1 in Germany and 1 in the Netherlands); meanwhile, 48 others (83%) were held in the US or Canada.
Between 2001 and 2022, 15 further Worldcons (68%) have been awarded to North American locations, while 7 others have travelled further (2 to the UK and one each to Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, and Ireland). Just four of the first 80 Worldcons have been held in countries where English is not the first language.
We’ve Always Done It That Way. Let us be under no illusion; there is a clear lineage running throughout the first 80 Worldcons – expectations that define how the event should look and feel. This lineage is not based on the WSFS Constitution that formally governs the event; the Constitution only sets out minimum obligations in terms of running the Business Meeting, Site Selection and Hugo Awards. The consistent presentation of the Worldcon has rather been controlled through the Site Selection process, where existing members decide who will host future events. To be credible, bids have had to demonstrate their commitment to meeting the established expectations. This commitment has typically been backed by having established Worldcon runners in leadership positions or at the very least advising on “how we do things”. And the voting base has always been dominated by the existing Worldcon community, so the whole process is self-perpetuating. It has always been theoretically possible for any group to win the Worldcon simply by having enough followers willing to join up and vote for their site; but in practice, no one outside of (or at least backed by) the traditional community has been able to rally enough voters in this way.
Every Telescope Has Two Ends. There is an old adage that things often look different from the other end of the telescope. Within the echo chamber of the existing (and particularly the North American) Worldcon community, Chengdu’s ability to rally thousands of Chinese fans willing to join Discon III and vote for a Chinese Worldcon is concerning if not suspicious. Cries of conspiracy and the Worldcon being bought ring out; questions are raised about the legitimacy of the voters (are the people real? Is the bid backed by the Chinese State? Did they pay for people to vote?).
In reality, China is a huge country with a vast population and an expanding middle class; an enormous SF field and well established fandom. Chengdu is an established international convention site as well as a centre for science and technology.
I rather suspect that from the Chengdu bid’s viewpoint, the US-centric history of Worldcon is at odds with the very name of the event and its claim to be the leading global celebration of the genre. I do not need to believe there is anything suspicious about the bid, because it only needs a tiny percentage of Chinese fans to get behind it to make it a success.
Similarly I have seen concerns that Chinese fandom will annex the Worldcon for alternate years starting in 2023; after all if 50,000 Chinese members turn up in Chengdu, and 10% of them vote for the event to come back to China (say, Beijing) in 2025, then the event will return there. Yet surely this has always been part of the Worldcon picture; seen from outside, US fans have mostly selected US sites, run by US conrunners. Bids have been supported by Convention and Visitor Bureaus, with in-kind or even cash support; locals are encouraged to join up and vote to bring the Worldcon to their city.
What is happening here is surely no different, except that the Bid is not part of the “usual” Community. More specifically, Chengdu have sought to win the vote by mobilizing their own supporters to join Discon III rather than by appealing to the traditional (Western) voter base – who would want to see them committing to running the usual event and drawing on existing Worldcon runners to ensure historical expectations are met.
What If? The existing Worldcon model – every year seeing essentially the same event, with all its historic baggage, plus a little local flavour – is not the only one we can imagine. And if history had played out differently, it’s not necessarily the one we’d have today.
Let us instead imagine a universe where cities and countries compete to run an annual global celebration of science fiction. They must of course demonstrate their competence to deliver the event; but they are then free to execute it as best fits their own national and fannish culture. Within this broad canvas, they are then obligated to host the Hugos etc in line with formal rules. One might even imagine that the administration of these required events is not delegated to the annual committee but managed by a standing organization (let’s not call it WSFS Inc, though). The continual reinvention of what Worldcon is or could be might create a tremendous level of positive energy and freshness to take Worldcon forward.
To be clear, I’m not necessarily saying this should be the future of Worldcon. But I think the existing Western Worldcon community would benefit from a good hard look in the mirror. I am sad to see a lot of “othering” of the Chengdu bid – that goes beyond the legitimate concerns about the Chinese State and fails to recognize the genuine and vibrant nature of Chinese SF and Chinese fandom. I also think there’s a lot of hubris in comments about the Chengdu team’s failure to put more effort into understanding existing Worldcon approaches and recruiting established Worldcon runners to their team. Perhaps the Chengdu team, coming from outside traditional Worldcon fandom, has a very different view of the event; perhaps they see it as a chance to make it something unique and distinctive to their own fannish culture for a year; something for their own fandom to participate in and enjoy. Bring the Worldcon to China; not take China to the Worldcon.
Let us be honest with ourselves. There are two ways to feel about Chengdu and about the idea of a large and youthful Chinese fandom wanting to host Worldcon more regularly in the future. We can see it as a glimpse into another universe where Worldcon is more dynamic and more fluid; where each fandom takes this jewel and makes it their own for a year. Or we can see it as someone taking away our toys; a threat to 80 years of tradition. Either view is legitimate, but if we adopt the second, let’s abandon any idea that Worldcon is really a truly global celebration of the genre, or that it’s capable of evolving beyond its historic context.
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I can see a lot of the hand-wringing over Chengdu is just fannish conservatism over a mostly-unexamined core of racism, but I do think it’s much easier to “set aside” questions of comfort and safety if you’re a cishet white guy. Though equally, when we’re in a situation where it’s easier for African authors to attend virtually than to get visas I can see there are some uncomfortable questions being dodged when we make a big fuss about China and Saudi Arabia
A good perspective. In a way, this calls for Worldcon to be a lot more like the Eurocon, where each bid and country is being given far more freedom in how to interpret and run the event.
There are still human rights and safety issues with running the event in China, but in today’s world there are similar issues with running the event in the USA and probably soon also in the UK. Of course, every place will be unsafe or uncomfortable to someone, but numbers matter here too.
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Query: do the Hugo awards specify English language publication? Obviously there is precident for translated works getting nominated for their English versions, and the translators rockets as well, but if the con were to find itself going to China on alternate years, would there be a knock on sea change to the Hugos?
Sophie Jane: I’m not downplaying the comfort and safety issues and personally I don’t feel Chengdu is a suitable location for Worldcon right now, even though it’s known for being more liberal than other parts of China. And that’s just looking at the personal experience and risks to international members who would like to attend, without even considering the wider human rights context.
I am sad to feel this way because the Chinese SF scene is vibrant and the Chinese fans I have met are engaging and authentic – and not responsible for the system they are part of. I also know that as a white cishet man, I would personally be safe attending; but as a member of the wider community I have to look at everyone’s experience and not just my own. (I’m doubly sad because I collect Asian art and I would so love to visit Xi’an and Jingdezhen one day; but I cannot in good conscience travel there).
This is why I set these issues aside at the start of my piece. I think the Chengdu bid raises wider questions about the reality of Worldcon’s place in the world and the way we decide on suitable sites – questions that would be absolutely valid regardless of these concerns.
NickPheas there is no requirement for works to be in English but the self-selecting make-up of the Worldcon membership has always ensured English works dominate even when the event goes to sites where English is not the first language. Of course this has been rare; you’ve only got Germany, The Netherlands, Finland and Japan so far. All of these fandoms have many English speakers and the European ones are typically part of the broader Western SF scene. Even in Japan, the finalists were exclusively names from the Western scene (http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/2007-hugo-awards/).
I do believe this might well change if we go to Chengdu. If we believe SF is a truly global genre, we cannot assert that the Western scene has primacy. And in practice, since Chengdu has based its bid on mobilising Chinese fans, rather than selling itself to Western (especially US) voters, we may see a Worldcon which is a proud celebration of Chinese SF rather than an event targeting Chinese fans who have an interest in Western SF.
I do not personally have a problem with that. I think that greater dialogue and awareness between the distinct SF scenes of the West, China, Japan, India and South America would be exciting and refreshing. Of course it would be scary for many people to move away from 80 years of direct lineage; but we would perhaps be creating a genuine global festival of SF in reality rather than only in name.
Widening the discourse would be well and good, but moving Worldcon to authoritarian countries means that the convention will be open to all sorts of political shenanigans. Those places have and probably will still seize random visitors to influence international politics, and there is no way to guarantee the safety of visitors to Worldcon from authoritarian whims.
Thank you for helping us look at the bigger picture, giving a taste of a WorldCon future beyond domestic domination.
But I feel we need to go further than mere countries being at the center of the conversation.
I’m looking forward to the bidding getting beyond the so-called “world” con site selection process being monopolized* for 80 years by sites on the land surface of the globe**.
It is high (and low) time we give fair consideration to subterranean, ocean surface and depths, and orbital bids.
There are many potential benefits: for example, if we pick an extraterrestrial site, there are some billionaires who might well step up to subsidize our travel there. This could perhaps offset the awkwardness of conducting conversations while maintaining rapid rotation to keep drinks in cups at the con suite and during Kaffeeklatsches.
Ocean surface con sites could be in international waters, free of governmental interference and pesky “protections” like copyright law. Plus offer the option of re-docking for sessions rather than trudging through long hotel corridors. While some may be concerned about the lack of restaurants (or anything, really) within walking distance of such sites, we could arrange, with suitable incentives, for traveling bakers to stop in and deliver sweet treats, but this would require raising the pie-rates flag to communicate.
In a time of hybrid and virtual cons, why not have a web site be the primary location? It could move around easily through the magic of DNS, and make transporting things between cons much easier and faster, although the art show would have to provide special corrective glasses to adjust for Doppler and quantum tunneling effects (as well as color calibration for individual monitors and printers). Finance it by auctioning off a few NFTs, or whatever the crypto-kitties are into these days.
In short, I agree with you. The time is nigh to throw off our hide-bound (or perfect-bound) traditions and embrace the new, clear future with the explosive future that lies ahead, with fandom for all and the exciting opportunities it will bring us.
= ‘monopolized’: being driven around an expensive landscape of surreal estates with extraordinary rents. ‘Park Place?’ I’ve heard you can’t even get a parking place at this week’s WorldCon.
** = setting aside, for the moment, the flat-earthers. Just don’t set them too far aside, or they might fall off.
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I ran into a fan, who was from Hong Kong. He is an American citizen. I consider him to be as American as I am, and some of my ancestors came over on the Mayflower. He could be elected Senator from his state if he was of that mind. He is an American, no doubt in my mind about it.
He said he could not go to the Worldcon if it was held in China. He would be treated as a Chinese national. If an American fan wore a Winnie the Poo t-shirt, he may be spoken to but this fan could be jailed.
What happens if China attacks Taiwan?
My questions are not racist. Ten years ago, I would have been OK with a Chinese bid as I was with the Beijing Olympics. Their policies have become harsher.
I love the unglobeular graphic!
I disagree and I think at least the behaviors displayed on File 770 confirm that fans are capable of thinking about the complex issues being raised. There has been a lot of respect justly demonstrated for Chinese fandom and Chinese authors/translators/etc.
I think most people understand that fandom in China aren’t the people putting Uighurs in concentration camps where they are subjected to everything from “re-eduction” to outright mass murder. Similarly, people don’t conflate Chinese fandom with government restrictions with regards to identity. As with the Jeddah bid, take the oppressive government out of the equation, and most Worldcon members would welcome the bid with open arms despite the other potential issues addressed above.
I would add that having more complete demography on all WorldCon/Hugo voters might be interesting. How many site selection voters also cast votes for the Hugo awards? Etc.
Regards,
Dann
Delay is preferable to error. – Thomas Jefferson
@Karl-Johan Norén
Not.
While I share the concerns regarding travelling abroad, I think that’ is (ironically) a very modern take. Worldcon was not set up to move around so fans can be tourists. Worldcon was set up so that science fiction fandom could be moved around to different regional fandoms.
Has Jeanette Ng endorsed the Chengdu bid?
@Martin Wooster
Much of her speech was in solidarity with Hong Kong (where she was born); I wouldn’t think that she has.
(And I’d imagine that if she had given the same speech in Chengdu, in “the autocratic Empire”, she wouldn’t have been able to return home in a timely fashion.)
Farah Mendlesohn: I think I have to disagree with your take on what the Worldcon was set up for. In 1939 it was set up to make fans come to New York. By 1940 fans had decided there were a lot of other places they’d rather go for a Worldcon — so I was reminded by reading Bixelstrasse — and as time goes by they are enlarging the list of “other places” to take it.
@bill: The USA was in the midst of a fascist takeover—that luckily was halted—back when Discon 3 was seated. That fascist trend has sadly not gone away.
As far as I can tell, the fascist takeover has succeeded and it’s all over other than tears and handwaving. Which makes all the objections to Chengdu ring a little hollow to me. The US has become an authoritarian country. No, we aren’t China, but we’re talking degree, not kind. Voting rights are being stripped from a sizable percentage of the population as we speak and large swathes of the country are gerrymandered to the point that it’s doubtful a progressive will ever get elected. If you’re the wrong sort of person, you can be shot dead at any time just for existing and no one will be able to do anything about it. And the supreme court seems to be locked up for the next quarter-century. There are a number of countries that, were I a citizen, would cause me to have serious doubts about attending a Worldcon in the US.
@Karl-Johan Norén
Nope.
I’m not endorsing the 1/6 riot in any way. Those that assaulted police and vandalized the capitol building deserve just and prompt punishment as with any rioters.
There was zero chance of any “takeover”. A riot…yes. Insurrection…no.
Exaggerating the importance of such events is as damaging to civil discourse as minimizing that importance.
The US government demonstrates nowhere near the level of abusive behavior that is currently on display by the CCP. The fact that the US receives far more immigrants than we send out as emigrants should indicate that most of the world understands that we are largely a safe, prosperous, and desirable place to live.
Regards,
Dann
What “multiculturalism” boils down to is that you can praise any culture in the world except Western culture—and you cannot blame any culture in the world except Western culture. – Thomas Sowell
There is no way that the USA is an authoritarian state yet. Compare where we are to actual authoritarian states like North Korea and the differences are too many to mention. For example, the 1/6 Committee just subpoenaed around 10 Republican congressmen for their texts and emails during 1/6. It is a subpoena. Not a decree from a dictator. The committee was created by elected officials and Republicans were offered a chance to participate. This does not sound like a fascist state. Yet.
They’ve subpoenaed a lot of people. But it’s become pretty clear that the people so summoned are just doing a big F’ U, what are you going to do about it? Obviously, we aren’t NK yet. But we’re very much in transition and all the levers seem pretty well fixed to prevent a return to a proper democracy. It’s all a matter of degree, not kind.
Why is it racist to question China’s repression in Tibet?
Why is it racist to question China’s repression of the Uyghurs?
Why is it racist to question China’s repression in Hong Kong?
Why is it racist to question China’s repression of Christians?
Why is it racist to question China’s repression of gays and lesbians?
The United States ranks 25th in the Democracy Index as of 2020. It is categorized as a Flawed Democracy, falling from a Full Democracy in 2016. China ranks 151th and is categorized as Authoritarian. Only 16 countries rank lower.
We have many problems to address in our democracy in the United States but suggesting we’ve become anything close to China isn’t a serious position.
@Martin Wooster
Those, obviously, are not the things I have in mind when I talk about a core of unexamined racism. When people assume the Chengdu supporters are (variously) sinister, organised, overwhelmingly numerous, a front for the Chinese government, or the end of worldcon fandom as we know it, on the other hand… Well, it might be time to pause and think about what’s going on here.
@ Sophie Jane
If you could identify the unexamined racism in this conversation, I would appreciate it. It would be very useful. Saying that “people assume that Chengdu supporters…” without providing examples, specifically within this thread, is not useful.
@Karl-Johan Norén
“Fascist takeover?” With no armed revolutionaries? With no one prosecuted for insurrection? Please. It was a bunch of loony protestors who got out of hand.
Compare to real fascists. Remind me, please, of when Trump had the partisans lined up against a wall and shot, or when he shut down the free press and opposition political parties, or when he rounded up Jews and sent them to death camps. The Washington Post regularly referred to him as “crazy” on the front of its web page for over four years — how many fascist regimes would put up with that?
People use “fascist” to refer to conservatives because they want to associate a connotation of Hitler, not because there is any truth to the usage.
But back to the original point — Did Trump put anyone in prison for 18 years for calling him a clown who desires power? Because that’s what Xi Jinping did to Ren Zhiqiang. Is the United States forcing a whole ethnic population into concentration camps, where re-education and slave labor and forced abortions and sterilizations are the norm? No, that’s China and the Uighurs. Are same-sex marriages legal in China? Does the US suppress religions that don’t comport with the Communist agenda? The US has the #MeToo movement; China has silenced Peng Shuai. Tell me how they are the same.
Your view of the equivalence of human rights between China and the US is hardly universal. People who protest against their governments routinely wave the US flag: Libya in the Arab Spring. Hong Kong. Cuba. Venezuela. Try that in Chengdu, if you go.
I am less worried about odd years being perennially in China than some.
To get anything like 50,000 Chinese attendees the attending rates is going to need to be substantively lower than normal and probably lower the the $50 voting fee
So I can see China splitting the attending membership from the WSFS membership. And having a local attending only membership for Chinese fans. Say something like $25.
So an a non local would pay for a traditional attending membership at an amount substantially above the voting fee. But local Chinese fans will have the option of having a cheaper traditional membership for this example $75 and an attending only membership for $25. With traditional supporting memberships on sale for $50.
Only those fans with WSFS membership would vote in sitd selection,,the hugoa and business meeting.
Steve Cooper: So I can see China splitting the attending membership from the WSFS membership. And having a local attending only membership for Chinese fans. Say something like $25.
The WSFS Constitution does not allow that.
All Attending memberships must include WSFS voting rights, and no Worldcon is permitted to sell Attending memberships for less than the cost of a Supporting membership.
1.5.8: No convention committee shall sell a membership that includes any WSFS voting rights for less than the cost of the Supporting Membership required by Article 4 in the selection of that convention.
1.5.9: No convention committee shall sell a membership that is available to persons of the age of majority at the time of the convention (as defined by the laws of the country and other jurisdictions where the convention is being held), that allows attendance and full participation for the entire duration of the convention and that does not include all WSFS voting rights. Should no law of the country and other jurisdictions where the convention is being held define an age of majority, the convention shall consider all persons 18 years of age or older as being of age of majority.
@JJ
Single day attending tickets with no other rights are a-ok though, right? They could do that.
Too many people seem think a country is either North Korea or a sunny utopian democracy.
To address the initial point, good or not, to go or not: no one is being forced to go, any group can create other, even competing conventions, if any one country tries to control any specific convention or event, it will quickly become regionalized and thus not “world” anyway, as the present con has rarely been.
Go or not go. “Do or not do, there is no try”.
Colin writes “…but I would like to put that aside and focus on broader issues…”
You’re “putting aside” genocide, Colin. Genocide. You know; like what the Nazis tried to do to the Jewish people in the 1930’s and 40’s. Genocide. That seems like a sufficiently broad issue to me. But hey, what does it matter? It’s only a convention, right? It’s only sci-fi, right? Go on, sell the Worldcon off to the genocidal Chinese. It’ll be fine. We’ll all have a big laugh about it later..
I highly doubt that the entire community of Chinese SF fans are the ‘genocidal Chinese’ you’re talking about, but go ahead and dismiss 1.5 billion people as all murderers. I wish we took such strong stands against cops who murder PoC with complete impunity.
Chengdu has pandas known as peace ambassadors and many scenic spots. Here you can feel the enthusiasm of domestic science fiction fans. If you come, I’m sure you don’t want to leave.
@ NickPheas, Colin Harris:
The only privileged position English has is that a non-English work is also eligible in the year its first English translation is published. Works originally published outside the USA (no matter what language) are also eligible the first year they’re published in the USA.
This is in 3.4.1 and 3.4.2 of the WorldCon Constitution.
Anyway, I have to remind you all that Chengdu is a city in the country where Genshin Impact was created )))
Curt Phillips I am in no way suggesting we set aside the human rights issues in deciding on whether to support the Chengdu bid. I was saying that I wanted to talk about some broader issues about the way we choose Worldcons and the way we put expectations on them to confirm to a certain model. This race has focused my thinking about those questions and it’s the subject of the article.
Every time I read about the Uighurs, I see “Jews in Germany” and every time I read a Fan attempting to explain why a Worldcon in China is an OK thing at this time, I am reminded of the 1936 Olympics being used as a propaganda tool – even to the point where Jewish American (!!!) participants were denied their opportunities in order to appease Hitler and the German government. ALL of it was swept under the rug. ALL of it.
I am reminded of how the early reports of camps and atrocities not only turned out to be true, they turned out to have been muted and under-played, owing to the certain knowledge that the truth was horrifyingly unbelievable.
I can not in good conscience support this event, because this event is supported, enabled and will accrue to the benefit of a genocidal regime.
I wish this were not the case but it is. The only way these kinds of things are stopped is by continuing to object and protest against them until enough people are made to recognize them for what they are.
JJ – conventions have historically gotten around that by offering things that are not memberships, per se. Such as day passes or the free virtual con passes given to online volunteers at DC this year, which do not confer any voting or Hugo nomination rights.
So Chengdu could definitely offer some sort of cheaper pass as Steve describes.
They will almost certainly habd to tim some sort of attendance pass.
At Smofcon they talked about a 2,000 person ballroom for the Hugo Awards.
So my guess is they are hoping for around 3,000 full att4mdimg members with voting rights
Add then 50,000 attendee pass holders who may only be there for one day and will have restricted access so will not be able to attend the Hugo’s etc.
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Sophie Jane: As I understand it–and my source was a lengthy article by a scholar at Yale that appeared in the FINANCIAL TIMES about eight months ago–the Chengdu bid is not an official Chinese government bid, but the Chinese government is very interested in it because they see it as a way to advance Chinese diplomatic “soft power.” I am considering Chengdu to be quasi-governmental until its advocates provide convincing evidence that the convention has no ties to the Chinese government.
@Martin Wooster
“my source was a lengthy article by a scholar at Yale that appeared in the FINANCIAL TIMES about eight months ago”
Link
Linda Robinett:
What would happen if US invaded Iraq? Performed a coup in Honduras or Bolivia? Bombed civilians in Afghanistan? Supported the brutal apartheid of Israel? What if UK sent personnel to train the police and military in Belarus?
Well, we all know the answer. Absolutely nothing would happen.
China has a problem with how the direct membership might be treated with regards to freedom of speech. But let’s not pretend the Worldcon community has ever cared about human rights with regards to a countries foreign policy.
Myself I am very split. On the one hand I have read mostly Chinese or Chinese-inspired novels the last 1-2 years. Wuxia and Xianxa. I think many people underestimate how much influence Chinese fantasy has had on Western fantasy, such as Will Wight’s Cradle-series. I would truly love to celebrate with Chinese fans and I think I would have a great time.
The problem is mostly not in foreign policy nor in Human Rights. The question is how members, both Chinese and western, are treated on the convention and around it. And how they might be limited in freedom of speech.
I think this is a hard question with no right answer. One the one hand opening up to a larger part of the world to together celebrate the achievements of all SFF, regardless of origin country. With much poorer fans that most likely could never go to a Worldcon outside China. On the other hand no possibility of speeches like the one from Jeanette Ng.
I am extremely conflicted.
The human rights issues in China (though as Hampus said, China is not the only country with problems) as well as the issue of limits to freedom of speech and issues that may be facing Chinese and Hong Kong expats are all points that need to be addressed.
However, please don’t conflate the Chinese fans with their country and don’t blame them for the PRC’s policies anymore than US fans were responsible for the actions of Donald Trump or George W. Bush.
I’ve lurked a bit in the Chengdu channel at the DisCon III Discord and it’s full of enthusiastic Chinese fans. The livestream, which Alison Scott mentioned in the other thread, has even more enthusiastic Chinese fans, most of them young students. There is grassroots support for this bid.
Criticising Chinese policy is fine, but don’t blame the Chinese fans.
@Martin Wooster:
ANYTHING that takes place on the international stage, in ANY way, in a totalitarian government is a creature and a tool of that totalitarian government.
Please have NO illusions about this. Overt/covert, official/unofficial is a distinction without meaning when the people who have the power can make others disappear at their whim.
And please believe me: anyone with two frontal lobes who lives there is well aware of the fact that there are ways to avoid attention – like keeping your head down and going with whatever the flow happens to be.
Survival and keeping your head down IS NOT THE SAME as having a voice.
@Cora
The Chinese citizens who are fans are also tools of the very same totalitarian government that is a problem. It’s great that they have an apparently approved opportunity to express their enthusiasm, but do you believe for one second that you’d ever hear anything from Chinese fans who are against hosting Worldcon there?
No, you won’t because despite appearances, Chinese citizens are NOT free to express themselves freely. It is ONLY when their actions are in line with the party line that they can do so (well, there are a handful who are willing to risk torture and imprisonment, but those are unfortunate exceptions).
We can not fall into the trap of presuming that there is some kind of equivalence between Chinese citizenry and citizens of long-standing democratically run countries; if you want a nearer term equivalence, go talk to former East Germans when there was an East Germany and every neighbor was a spy for the STASI just to keep themselves safe.
We are not really hearing from Chinese fans – we are only hearing from those Chinese fans that the Chinese government is allowing us to hear from.
Has anyone in this conversation had a conversation with anyone who has been to a convention or conference in one of China’s big cities? I have, many, and it’s different even then visiting as a tourist. Convention attendees, typically, get in and out much easier, and with less scrutiny. This is not always the case, but it’s a big thing.
Still, the issues with people of Chinese-birth or even descent receiving ‘exit bans’ is a real problem and one that will prevent a lot of people attending, or facing a potentially dicey situation. I love the bid team, I think they totally did a great job (also – stealing that telethon idea) but there’s gonna be some rough walking that’s gonna need doing all around.
Good piece, Colin. A lot of the stuff I’ve been texting with folks shows up and makes more sense seeing someone else make the points with clarity.
Chris
@bill
I’m not talking about the 6/1 events. I’m talking about 2019, when Discon was selected. I’m also using Roger Griffin’s definition of fascism, which is a modern and academic one that’s proven quite useful for both identifying fascist movements in their infancy and to distinguish them from regular authoritarian or violent movements or leaders.
Donald Trump is a fascist, and the Republican party has come to be dominated by fascist patterns of thoughts.
I very much see things similarly with Cora and Hampus. The human rights problems with China are very real, but I think the greater problem is that a Worldcon in China will block out large groups of people who are already part of the Worldcon family. But the difference compared a Worldcon in the USA isn’t that the US Worldcon doesn’t block out large groups of people, it’s that the groups of people blocked are not already part of the Worldcon family.