Tool Talk

The April 20 Pixel Scroll quoted several paragraphs from Declan Finn’s blog post “The John Ringo and ConCarolinas issue” (see item 13) ending with this one —

On THEIR OWN TERMS, I should be concerned to even walk the halls as a regular attendee carrying a John Ringo book. While I have no problem defending myself, I to go conventions to have a good time. I don’t want to spend the majority of the con in cuffs because some dickheads decide “You’re a Ringo fan, therefore you’re [insert cliche lefty insults here]” and therefore I have to beat them senseless.

Today Robert D. Ries smugly chastised me in comments:

I am curious: Is your misquote of Declan Finn intentional, or simply incompetence?

Because the omitted “in self defense” gives the statement an entirely different tone and meaning.

Don’t worry, I don’t expect a retraction, correction OR apology. Your history of such incidents is obvious.

Why? Because that paragraph in Finn’s post now reads like this

Finn has rewritten the line since I quoted him.

However, the Google cache file at this hour still has the original text:

Will Robert D. Ries be more surprised or disappointed to learn it is possible to document the original quote? Surprised enough to apologize?

183 thoughts on “Tool Talk

  1. LOLOLOL

    This thread is pure gold.

    Laughter is, indeed, the best medicine.

  2. Paul Weimer on April 23, 2018 at 2:37 am said:

    In self defense…I wonder how chilled plum cupcakes would taste.

    We’re on the second page, so I can now say I have an awesome recipe for Sugar Plum Spice Cake that would probably make decent cupcakes. Even when chilled.

  3. I wonder if the next revised version of that post is going to be something like “some dickheads decide ‘You’re a Ringo fan, therefore you’re [insert cliche lefty insults here]’ and when I say ‘Got a problem with John Ringo fans, dickhead?” they try to hit me over the head with a copy of Das Kapital, and therefore I have to beat them senseless in self defense.”

    I suspect that is actually what he means: he is assuming that ‘self-defense’ implies he is being attacked. His failure to say so clearly can be explained by the sentence being an on-the-spot revision done at short notice.

  4. *arranges for delivery of a gross of cupcakes in appreciation for gales of laughter and lightening of spirits*

    Be sure to save some for the shoggoth!

  5. robinareid, for the shoggoth, we need to make the little paper cups for the cupcakes out of pages from a bad SF novel. Hmmm, I wonder what we should use….

  6. I always wondered why Treebeard and his Ent buddies did not hear the goings-on in Isengard, and had to be prompted into action by two Hobbits, creatures of which they were, up to that point, completely unaware. If annoyed me at every re-read until I finally had to retcon it to suppose that Treebeard really cannot hear the racket, and only understands Merry and Pippin by lipreading. So that I would not forget this next time, I annotated my copy to add NOTE TO SELF: DEAF ENTS.

  7. I too am loving all the creativity on this thread. It’s like being in a refinery of amazing wordplay! Together, we stoke the flames of tenuous, yet amusing scenarios. We reduce down the ore of language, leaving behind the purest base of assonance and rhyme. Filers, you could even say we SMELT CONTENT.

  8. NEVER has I wished more for a like button on File than reading this thread.

    We had a case here recently where a criminal got turned in by the person she’d been selling her stolen goods to. While in the pawn shop, she’d said something disparaging about the establishment. As the judge noted, a good example of why you don’t INSULT THE FENCE.

  9. Do not forget the Elven border-lord, ELF D’FENCE. However, starting with smiting people senseless, then thinking one is a good person smells of SELF-PRETENCE.

  10. I suspect that is actually what he means: he is assuming that ‘self-defense’ implies he is being attacked.

    Well, yes, that’s probably what he tries to imply with the revision, but it’s a rather weak attempt at backpedalling.

    I think the beginning of the sentence is also noteworthy: “I don’t want to spend the majority of the con in cuffs because …” – in other words, he’s worried about the reaction from cops after this hypotethical altercation, he’s not worried about physical harm to himself.

    This is an interesting kind of bluster: While we’re supposed to believe Finn fears someone will try to hit him, we’re also supposed to believe he is manly enough to handle any attacks easily and with no threat to himself. Regardless of how many “the SJW will throw the first punch” we’re supposed to read between the lines, Finn still takes his own physical safety for granted. And that sort of negates his claim about self-defence – if there’s no threat, there’s nothing to defend from, in particular not a defence that involves beating the wannabe-attacker senseless.

  11. Declan Finn: The gift that keeps on giving.

    It’s a low spoons day and I haven’t come up with a pun worthy of the thread, so I’ll just thank all the participants for some sorely needed laughs on this, Shakespeare’s birthday and World Book Day (or as it’s known in my home-Monday).

    Here in 7314, you can have any book, play or film beamed directly to you as you like it.

  12. @Johan P.

    Also it doesn’t really help those of us who are civilised. Whilst self-defence is a defence (in law) it (in most places) has to be proportionate. “Beating them senseless” doesn’t seem to be a proportionate response to me

  13. As long as there are human beings, we will never run out of idjits to laugh at. Thank you, Declan and Robert, for volunteering.

    Lessons of the day, that some folks obviously still need to work on: the Internet is forever. Archives and screen shots are things. And inevitably there’s gonna be someone less oblivious than you who will be happy to catch you in your lies.

  14. @andyl
    While there are plausible situations where beating someone senseless is acceptable self-defense, that would be situations where the attacker is a genuine threat to yourself or others. But in order to come off as a tough guy, Finn describes a situation where the attacker is not a real threat, and where beating the attacker senseless would be wildly disproportionate.

    So basically Finn’s desire to look like a manly man, a true alpha male, makes him look like an aggressive douchebag instead. Which is kind of appropriate, I guess.

  15. @ Johan P:

    That would be one of the “theoretically possible” scenarios I referred to. And looking at the comments on Mr Finn’s blog, it seems he does not acknowledge that he’s edited his blog post (editing the post to clarify what he meant is obviously perfectly fine, but not acknowledging that he’s done so is a wee bit dodgy).

  16. I think this all harkens back to anger over Hugo winners such as:

    Ancillary Self Defense
    SelfDefenseShirts
    The Self Defense That Falls On You From Nowhere
    The Self Defense Lady of Mars
    …and, of course…
    The Three Body Self Defense

  17. The real question: Would you beat someone senseless if you could SAVE THE FENS that way?

  18. The lion, The self,and the defenserobe
    I have no self and i must defense
    For the defense is hollow and i have selfed the sky
    So long and self for all the defense!
    The bicentennial defense

  19. Mr. Finn announced his engagement over a week ago, so I guess he can’t use an INCEL DEFENSE.

  20. @Peer
    “I have no self and i must defense”

    I’m in agreement with Cat Rambo about wishing for a like button for this thread. In lieu of that, I would like to say thank you to all who made me laugh, and point to that quote from Peer as one I particularly like.

  21. I don’t want to spend the majority of the con in cuffs because some dickheads decide “You’re a Ringo fan, therefore you’re [insert cliche lefty insults here]” and therefore I have to beat them senseless.

    On the upside, now anyone wanting to turf Finn from a convention has a permanent account of his own confession that he lacks the ability to restrain himself from physically attacking someone in response to a verbal insult.

  22. I’m gonna make you bend and break
    Say a prayer, but let the good times roll
    In case God doesn’t show
    And I want these words to make things right
    But it’s the wrongs that make the words come to life
    “Who does he think he is?”
    If that’s the worst you’ve got better put your fingers back to the keys

    Sorry, I suddenly felt like QUOTING PETE WENTZ

  23. @Dex: “he lacks the ability to restrain himself from physically attacking someone in response to a verbal insult.”

    You are misrepresenting the honorable and majestic Finn, as you left off IN SELF DEFENSE. He is a manly man and must defend his honor at the hint of the slightest slight.

  24. @Scott —

    Sorry, I suddenly felt like QUOTING PETE WENTZ

    Is that the Wentz Defense?

  25. @kathodus: Thanks!
    @all: Sorry, i cannot resist:

    Four Self defenses and a Manslaughter

    The self with the golden defense

    And all because Finnmade a typo. He actually wanted to write:
    „i beat him up myself and in court I will put up a senseless defense“

  26. @Kathodus —

    You are misrepresenting the honorable and majestic Finn, as you left off IN SELF DEFENSE. He is a manly man and must defend his honor at the hint of the slightest slight.

    He also left off the part about slapping the miscreant across the face with his glove first.

  27. Folks, you are the best. I am scaring the credentials with my hoots of laughter. (Actually, I’m not. They’re ignoring me like credentials so often do.)

    Happy Spring/Autumn, everyone! It’s sunny and about 60F/16C here, and the ornamental fruit trees and magnolias are blooming. This is the prettiest time of year here, as we have streets lined with white-blossoming pear trees, with lots of cherry and related trees as well (apple? crabapple? plum? I’m not botanically knowledgeable).. It only lasts a couple of weeks, though.

  28. Oh, My, My. This thread.

    I guess if any liberal fans run into Declan, they should Back Off Boogalo.and maybe take a Photograph of the incident. Because, It Don’t Come Easy for Declan to refrain himself.

  29. If someone were to purchase tin-glazed earthenware depicting delicate spirits of the air, it would clearly be a case of SYLPH DE FAIENCE.

  30. Camestros Felapton on April 23, 2018 at 2:22 pm said:

    Something something something something IN MILSF THE FLENSE.

    I’m pretty sure Bujold did that in Mirror Dance.

  31. I seem to have absent-mindedly triple-booked myself for the first weekend in June, what with ConCarolinas, my hairdresser-in-law’s wedding, and an invitation to go pogo-ing in Aberdeen with Timothy the Talking Cat. Clearly I need to work out which of the three should take priority; that is, I need to SIFT EVENTS.

  32. This brings back some terrible memories of the time I was a Prison Guard and we had a riot there. All of us ended up holding the line , crammed in one of the unoccupied cells. To this day we still tell the tale of the CELL F DEFENSE.

  33. should a liberal fan choose to attack with a King’s pawn … then we might have the FINNISH version of the Caro-Kann DEFENSE

  34. Back in the late 60s, the Boston Bruins broke their long Stanley Cup-less streak when they acquired the brilliant Bobby Orr, who remains the only defenceman to have won the NHL scoring title (twice). Clearly, the BEST DEFENCE WAS A GOOD ORR-FENCE.

  35. Dear Orange Mike,

    What you said!

    When words are outlawed, only outlaws will have words!

    They’ll take my words when they pry my cold, dead fingers from the keyboard!

    Furthermore, it is my Constitutional Right to carry a concealed thesaurus.

    Absolutism is no vice in the pursuit of First Amendment Virtue.

    ~~~~

    Dear folks,

    Such a common cant of the alt-right that “self-defense” is a legitimate justification for anything they want to do. So long as it’s for self-defense, it’s all cool.

    I’d like to see one of them try and bring a loaded handgun into the Worldcon 76 San Jose Convention Center under the claim that they need it to feel safe. I’m sure that would go over well.

    – pax \ Ctein
    [ Please excuse any word-salad. Dragon Dictate in training! ]
    ======================================
    — Ctein’s Online Gallery. http://ctein.com 
    — Digital Restorations. http://photo-repair.com 
    ======================================

  36. I wonder if the next revised version of that post is going to be something like “some dickheads decide ‘You’re a Ringo fan, therefore you’re [insert cliche lefty insults here]’ and when I say ‘Got a problem with John Ringo fans, dickhead?” they try to hit me over the head with a copy of Das Kapital, and therefore I have to beat them senseless in self defense.”

    Why stop at Das Kapital? Why not use the complete Collected Works of Karl Marx in the nice heavy East German hardcover edition? At least, that would give him something to self-defend against.

  37. If being called, say, something resembling the word “Nazi” was grounds for beating them into a pulp, ol’ Rushbo would have been pulped decades ago when he started calling all the women who wanted equal treatment under the law “feminazis”. He’d be nothing but an invisible thin grease stain by now.

    Oh, sorry, Declan (both originally and now) said “beat them senseless”. Okay. I revise my earlier sentence to “He’d be completely senseless by now.”

    How would we possibly tell the difference?

  38. FWIW, I considered Finn’s original piece to imply that he was responding to physical violence rather than initiating it just by the set-up.

    Regards,
    Dann
    The words of a President have an enormous weight and ought not to be used indiscriminately. – Calvin Coolidge

  39. Dann: FWIW, I considered Finn’s original piece to imply that he was responding to physical violence rather than initiating it just by the set-up.

    I’m disappointed you’re resorting to making stuff up. What he said — and it’s still there — is “…because some dickheads decide ‘You’re a Ringo fan, therefore you’re [insert cliche lefty insults here]’…” He’s speaking about a response to words.

  40. In retrospect it was a bad idea to play Quidditch in the top floor corridors of the hotel. But everyone agreed it was a clear case of self-defenestration.

  41. @Mike

    Perhaps it would be more precise to say that I inferred a response to violence rather than he implied it.

    Given that the con said they couldn’t guarantee Mr. Ringo’s safety, it isn’t exactly a huge leap to think that violence has been offered to him at some point in this mess. Inferring that such violence might extend to his fans isn’t exactly a significant stretch.

    FWIW, I wasn’t suggesting that your original reporting was false or misleading in any way. Only that I took his unmodified to statement to imply a response to violence rather than initiating it.

    Regards,
    Dann

  42. @Dann —

    Given that the con said they couldn’t guarantee Mr. Ringo’s safety, it isn’t exactly a huge leap to think that violence has been offered to him at some point in this mess. Inferring that such violence might extend to his fans isn’t exactly a significant stretch.

    So far the only evidence that anyone has offered any violence to Ringo, ever, was a mention by Ringo that somebody had supposedly issued a fatwah against him years ago — I believe when he was still in the service.

    In my very humble opinion, that cutesy bit about safety was more likely a bit of face-saving posturing by the concom. If there had been any actual threats, you can bet Ringo and/or the concom would be trumpeting them far and wide.

  43. If I recall correctly, Declan Finn wrote that disgusting Puppy torture porn, so he has form when it comes to responding to words with violent fantasies. I have my doubts as to whether he would actually carry them out – most people don’t really want to hurt anyone or risk injury – but he’s certainly very fond of pretending. As such, I took him at his word that he meant he would (fantasise about) respond(ing) to words with violence.

    Inferring anything else might be generous but it isn’t backed up by his history or the words he wrote.

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