The Effect of Puppy Rays on Fan-in-Spokane Rocketships 5/26

aka It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a sad puppy in possession of a published story must be in want of a Hugo

From rules wonk to rap filk, we have it all in today’s roundup courtesy of Adam-Troy Castro, Keith “Kilo” Watt, Jameson Quinn, Ian Mond, Kat Jones, Lis Carey, Joe Sherry, Reinder Dijkhuis, Brian Niemeier, Rebekah Golden, Lou Antonelli and Vox Day. (Title credit goes out to today’s File 770 contributing editors Kurt Busiek and Peace Is My Middle Name.)

Vox Day in e-mail – May 26

[How many GamerGaters were involved during the Hugo nominating phase? Vox Day says people overestimated in today’s comments.]

The GamerGate involvement in RP/SP through the nomination period is limited to two individuals, me and Daddy Warpig. We are both original GG (GG before Baldwin) and we are both Rabid Puppies.

There are a few GGers who have gotten involved post-nomination, but I don’t know how many. The RP are basically the Vile Faceless Minions plus a few Dread Ilk.

You may wish to note that there are more Vile Faceless Minions (366) than Rabid Puppy nominating votes. That’s because the extent of the Rabid Puppies campaign was a single blog post. Every Rabid Puppy is a VP reader. We didn’t need GG and we knew it, as you can confirm from our pre-shortlist discussions. There are some GGers buying supporting memberships. How many, I do not know.

 

Adam-Troy Castro on Facebook – May 26

Among the revelations in the “Return of Kings” blog post about how women in publishing are keeping true men writers down:

If you are a first-time writer and the acquiring editor decides that you’re an asshole — literally, if she is given reason to believe you’re an asshole who will be a pain to work with — she will likely make the decision to not buy your book.

This is represented as part of the shameful status quo that is keeping men down….

The other option is, of course, to not be an asshole, and is left unconsidered.

 

Keith “Kilo” Watt on Making Light

“E Pluribus Hugo: Out of Many, A Hugo” – May 26

In this thread we will hammer out the formal language of the proposal, any FAQs we wish to include, and strategize for the presentation at the business meeting itself. At this point, we’ll consider the system itself locked in, so we are really only looking at the language.

  1. RME instead of 6th place
  2. (1,1), (1,2), or (1,2,2) for ties in points
  3. Option 2a (if there is a tie for nominations, eliminate the one with fewer points; if there is a tie for both nominations and points, eliminate them both)

There is one more issue that is still up for debate: Should we explicitly empower the Hugo admins to use further tie breakers in the future if they decide it’s necessary? I’ve written the proposal and FAQ explanations assuming that we do, however, a case can be made for not worrying about giving them the power explicitly. We should settle that question here. I think that the way I’ve written the “empowerment” makes it okay to include it, but for myself, I don’t feel a strong need to. I’m definitely not opposed to it, however.

….19. Wasn’t this system just designed by Social Justice Warriors to block the Good Stuff? It is true that much of the discussion for this system occurred on Teresa and Patrick Nielsen Hayden’s “Making Light” discussion board, and it is also true that groups such as the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies consider TNH and PNH to be The Enemy, and therefore completely biased and not to be trusted. Other than serving as occasional moderators, TNH and PNH had no real input in the discussions of the system, however. Those of us who worked on the system were very clear that our goal was not to keep the Sad/Rabid Puppies off of the Hugo ballot, and that any system which specifically targets any type of work is inherently wrong and unfair. One of the members of the group is a retired US Naval officer, a combat veteran, a certified Navy marksman, a Christian, and considers Robert Heinlein to be the greatest science fiction author who has ever lived. In short, he is exactly the Puppies’ demographic. But any slate, of any sort, be it a Sad Puppy or a Happy Kitten of Social Justice, breaks the Hugo Award because a small percentage of voters can effectively prevent any other work from appearing on the final ballot. This is a major flaw in the Hugo nomination system, and it is a flaw that must be fixed if the integrity of the award is to be maintained. Politics should play no role whatsoever in whether a work is Hugo-worthy or not.

 

Jameson Quinn in a comment on Making Light

Final update on the gofundme:

Fully funded, and beyond!

I’m truly in awe of the generosity this community has shown, both to me personally and to the cause of voting reform. Not only has the main campaign received $1440, beyond the goal of $1400; but I’ve also been offered a Sasquan attending membership, so in effect it’s actually $250 over the goal.

 

Ian Mond on The Hysterical Hamster

“Who Should Win The Hugo Award For Best Novel” – May 27

The Anderson in particular led me to question this whole notion purported by the Sad / Rabid Puppies that good SF has big ideas and entertains.  Having read two examples of this sort of SF, both the KJA and Charles Gannon’s awful Nebula nominee, Trial by Fire (review forthcoming) I can only conclude that my idea of entertainment and big, high concept ideas lives in a very different Universe than what the Sad Puppies are aiming to promote.  This isn’t snobbishness***** on my part, I just struggle to see the appeal of novels that are so poorly written.

But let’s get back to the point of this blog post:

Who Do I Want To See Win – I tossed and turned about this, but I’ve finally landed with The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison (Sarah Monette)

Who Do I Think Will Win – I might not have been so keen on the novel, but I believe that Ann Leckie will take home her second novel Hugo for Ancillary Sword.

 

Kat Jones on CiaraCat Sci-Fi Review

“Review: The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison” – May 26

It’s an interesting slice of life, and I found myself caring about some of the characters. But for me, it wasn’t a compelling STORY.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“Ms. Marvel, Vol. 1, by G. Willow Wilson (writer), Adrian Alphona (artist), Ian Herring (colorist), Sara Pichelli (cover)” – May 26

This is the first pure fun I’ve had reading Hugo nominees this year, barring The Goblin Emperor, which I read prior to the announcement of the ballot.

 

Joe Sherry on Adventures In Reading

“Thoughts on the Hugo Award Nominees: Professional Artist” – May 26

There is a lot of quality art being produced by the 2015 nominees. Julie Dillon, last year’s winner for Professional Artist, continued to produce excellent work. Based on their work included in the Hugo Voter’s Packet, Greenwood, Pollack, and DouPonce have also produced good work. As a point of personal preference, Greenwood is my top choice here, but it was very close between Dillon and Greenwood. While referencing the Voter’s Packet is a touch unfair because unless you’re also a voter, you can’t see that work. Unfortunately, except for Dillon, none of the other nominees have work posted at the Hugo Eligible Artists tumblr (a great reference for both fan and pro work, by the way), but you should be able to browse the various websites I’ve linked above to get a feel for their work.

 

Reinder Dijkhuis on Obsession Du Jour

“Notes/first impressions: 3 Hugo-nominated graphic novels” – May 25

Above, I’ve dwelled on the flaws of the comics discussed a lot, and I would like to mention that I really did enjoy two of them and found things to enjoy in the third. They have flaws but they’re not disastrous ones. As the incompleteness problem is apparently par for the course for this category, I’ve decided to ignore this and give all works the benefit of the doubt on that score as far as award-worthiness is concerned. I have decided to vote all four above No Award for the Hugos, in, as it happens, the exact same order as I read and discussed them. My preliminary vote for the category, then, is

  1. Ms Marvel
  2. Sex Criminals
  3. Rat Queens
  4. Saga
  5. No Award.

 

Reinder Dijkhuis on Obsession Du Jour

“Notes/First Impressions: Zombie Nation by Carter Reid” – May 26

…. Everything about it looks copied from other comics. That includes the writing, which is based on just a small number of stale, sexist jokes and pop culture references that need to be retired. Who in their right minds nominated this?

 

 

Brian Niemeier on Superversive SF

“Transhuman and Subhuman Part VI: Swordplay in Space” – May 26

“Why is the preferred weapon of the Galactic Empire the sword?” John C. Wright tackles that question in the sixth part of his essay collection Transhuman and Subhuman.

Following the premise that a man’s attitude toward war and death reveals his outlook on life, Wright examines a selection of great science fiction books for the answer to why authors attempting to imagine the future so often employ archaic conventions.

Wright posits five basic views on war…

 

Rebekah Golden

“2015 Hugo Awards Best Movie: Reviewing Lego Movie” – May 26

I really liked the Lego Movie. I believe it has a lot more content to it than first glance would give it. It is interesting and has a good emotional punch as well as a significant number of fun moments.

 

Lou Antonelli on Facebook – May 26

On the way to Kansas City for ConQuest 46, I had to drive through Hugo, Oklahoma, so I stopped and took a selfie of me with the city sign, in celebration of my …two Hugo nominations.

Now, I know right now, some of you are thinking, “Hah! That’s as close to a Hugo as you will ever get, Antonelli!”

 

Lou Antonelli poses with sign outside Hugo, Oklahoma.

Lou Antonelli poses with sign outside Hugo, Oklahoma.

 

Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“You don’t like the medicine, Doctor?” – May 26

And because Public Enemy is always appropriate:

He book-reviewed, he S.J.W’d
Vile minions viewed his anti-Puppy feud
One-star the rating, listen to him double trouble
He signs in now he’s pushing for the lower level
Like crashing cars he’s out there stealing stars
From books he took without a single look.
Taking a toll ’cause his soul broke with the poll
From the revelation… of a Puppy Nation.
Now this is what I mean an anti-Puppy machine
If Hugo come out at all, he won’t come out clean
But look around here go the sound of the wrecking clown
Boom and pound when he put ’em down

514 thoughts on “The Effect of Puppy Rays on Fan-in-Spokane Rocketships 5/26

  1. When the dog bites
    When Ted Beale slings
    When I’m feeling rabid
    I simply remember my favorite things
    And then I don’t feel so sad

  2. RedWombat on May 28, 2015 at 8:00 am said:

    @ Peace – Larry Elmore and the Tall Grass Phenomenon!

    I know, right? Anything to avoid painting feet.

  3. @Aaron
    The Hugo’s stayed relevant because of their history and because most sci-fi readers were unaware just how tiny worldcon is. That ship has sailed. Tell me aaron, what is the median age of a worldcon attendee? 50? 60? 70? Howe long will worldcon last without new blood?

    @ Hampus Eckerman.
    And you have proof that all of these new voters are anti-puppy? Because given the timing of the surge in supporting memberships, I suspect its either mixed, or primarily pro-puppy. But that is only a theory. Do you have any evidence upon which you base your certainty?

    @ Milt stevens
    The population of Chicago is not relevant to your analogy, the number of voters, the legitimacy of said voters, and who counts the votes is. Chicago’s elections are gamed because the city government is corrupt. So far there has been no evidence presented that the worldcon committee is. Do you have reason to believe otherwise? If not, I don’t really see your metaphor as being valid.

    @Johan P
    Because worldcon has been shrinking, which is to say dying, for a long time now. Any changes to the rules will send a clear signal to those who are newcomers that they are not welcome. Whats happens to a body when its old cells die if they are not replaced?

    The Puppies slates were so effective precisely because it takes so few votes in order to secure a nomination. While theoretically a larger group of slate voters could still dominate a much larger worldcon, in practice it would be much more difficult to achieve.

    Well, then I imagine you will be a loud and proud supporter of sad puppies 4. Because like it or not, the puppies did in fact bring in quite a few new voters. As this very site has reported on several occasions.

    @Chris
    As a non-fen. I can only tell you that I and many others brought in by the puppy campaign view these attempts to change the rules as being in direct response to us. The rules were fine so long as the true-fen where the only ones showing up, but now that I and others are participating? Well you certainly can’t allow a bunch of “others” to play by the same rules ehh?

    @Rcade
    If you think these rule changes will bring in more people we will have to agree to disagree.
    Regardless of whether these voters came in to oppose the puppies, support the puppies, or a mixture of both, they came in as a result of the puppies.

    @Kyra
    If the rules changes are widely seen as a response to the new voters, and I know for a fact that many people do, then they will be interpreted as a move hostile to new voters.

    @Kimberly k
    You would be shocked by how many people, even life long sci-fi fans, didn’t know how open the voting was. At the very least, I think we can agree that the puppies did a damn good job of spreading the word.

    @ Chris Hensley.
    I did not say that all of the new voters were puppy supporters. But there is no doubt, given the timing of the surge of voters, that the vast majority became supporting members because of the puppies. Whether they did so to spite the puppies, to support the puppies, or because the puppy efforts made them aware for the first time just how open the process is, the fact is we can credit the puppy campaigns with being the cause.

    In the end, the Hugo’s are “the most prestigious award in sci fi” due to sheer inertia. Most of the people I have discussed this with, who were not members of worldcon, assumed it was equal to a comic-con, or dragon con. When they discover that “the most prestigious award in sci-fi” is awarded by, at most, a few thousand people they begin to wonder why its such a big deal. When they see those few thousand doing everything they can to to make sure us “barbarians” know we aren’t welcome, they understand that it in fact isn’t “the most prestigious award in sci-fi” anymore, and hasn’t been in quite some time. But having reads through some of these comments I am beginning to suspect that many of you don’t care that worldcon is dying, so long as it doesn’t change. As long as you get to be the last one to filk, you don’t care if the halls go silent, the fires in the temple sputter and die, and the little rocket becomes a collector’s item that is only of interest to a small subset of antique enthusiasts. In fact I suspect many of you secretly want worldcon to die, if only so you can sit in your rockers and lament how much better the world used to be. That is ever so much easier than changing or adapting after all .

  4. What’s the average age of the Puppy voter? If FB and tweets and public comments are any guide, Brad is among the youngest of them and most are significantly older. I’d put them in the same age bracket as the average Worldcon attendee.

  5. The Hugo’s stayed relevant because of their history and because most sci-fi readers were unaware just how tiny worldcon is. That ship has sailed. Tell me aaron, what is the median age of a worldcon attendee? 50? 60? 70? Howe long will worldcon last without new blood?

    Your complaint about the age of Worldcon attendees has been made since at least 1970, and probably longer than that. Worldcon skews “old” because science fiction fans who become “Fans” usually stay Fans until they become too old to travel or die. And yet somehow Worldcon always seems to have new people arriving to replace the ones who pass away. You’re beating a tired and discredited drum when you whine about the median age of Worldcon attendees.

    The Hugos have relevance because of their history and their track record of honoring works that are recognized as being good works. As I have said several times before, “Hugo nominee” or “Hugo winner” doesn’t confer prestige upon a work. The work has to be recognized as being worthy before the nomination or no amount of award accolades will make it so. Whether the Pups want to believe it or not, most of the works honored by the Hugo Awards are thought of highly by a large segment of the science fiction community – and that includes the works that have won in the last few years.

    Having more voters won’t make the award any more or less relevant. I know it is difficult to grasp, but there are awards that have usually had more voters than the Hugo Awards do, and they are not regarded as being more prestigious than the Hugos.

  6. One wide-open anyone can vote contest is the Goodreads Choice Award.

    https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-science-fiction-books-2014

    Looks like the winner was THE MARTIAN, which was sadly ineligible for the Hugo Award.

    Second place? LOCK-IN by John Scalzi.

    So much for the Puppy idea that the silent majority (a term that first appears in The Odyssey to describe the dead) wouldn’t vote for Scalzi but would vote for…Kevin Anderson?

    In the fantasy section, it is true that Butcher placed fairly highly: third.
    https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-fantasy-books-2014 The bulk of the candidates, however, seem to be exactly the sort of “wereseal romances” (or whatever Beale’s term is) that the Rabid Puppies credit with ruining fantasy fiction. It’s a Pink majority.

  7. @Rebekah

    It will take me awhile to reformat the GG links so that they’re not written just for me, as I’m a bit wavery in spoons at the moment, but when/if I manage to do that I’ll post it here and link to the comment in whatever is the newest Puppy thread at the time and hopefully you’ll see it.

  8. marsultor13: Any changes to the rules will send a clear signal to those who are newcomers that they are not welcome.

    Nope, changes to the rules will send a clear signal that slates which attempt to game the nomination slate will no longer be effective.

    marsultor13: As a non-fen. I can only tell you that I and many others brought in by the puppy campaign view these attempts to change the rules as being in direct response to us. The rules were fine so long as the true-fen where the only ones showing up, but now that I and others are participating? Well you certainly can’t allow a bunch of “others” to play by the same rules ehh?

    The rules changes were brought in as a direct response to the nominations process being gamed by a slate. The rules were fine as no one was unscrupulous and selfish enough to game them. Now that a group of people have shown up who have demonstrated that they are quite happy to behave so unscrupulously and selfishly, the rules are being changed to make this sort of gaming much less effective.

    Given that the Puppies have claimed repeatedly that the reason for their slate is that the same thing has been done for years by a group of SJWs, then I am sure that you will rejoice in the new-found fairness that the rules changes will bring.

  9. >> Larry Elmore and the Tall Grass Phenomenon! >>

    My favorite banjo-based roots band.

  10. marsutor:

    Tell me aaron, what is the median age of a worldcon attendee? 50? 60? 70? Howe long will worldcon last without new blood?

    Oh, probably as long as it already has survived and then some, given that your statement was old hat fifty years ago.

    Because worldcon has been shrinking, which is to say dying, for a long time now.

    Yep, you’re right. In fact, it has be shrinking and dying since before I was born in 1965. It’s amazing how it’s taking so darn long to die, considering that fans have been complaining about the imminent Death of Worldcon or Death of Fandom since before I was born.

    How big would be “big enough” for you do consider “not dying?” 10,000? 50K? 100K? 250K? You young should the average attendee be for you to consider it “young enough?” 21? 18? 12? Should we only allow people younger than you to attend so that the average age is young enough to satisfy you?

  11. @Kevin Standlee

    “Should we only allow people younger than you to attend so that the average age is young enough to satisfy you?”

    That quote says it all. I reckon y’all should allow anyone to attend who wants to, and welcome them with open arms. But what do I know?

    @JJ
    “Nope, changes to the rules will send a clear signal that slates which attempt to game the nomination slate will no longer be effective.”

    Heh. Now you’re gonna dictate how people will react to or interpret an action? Heh. Good luck with that.

    “Given that the Puppies have claimed repeatedly that the reason for their slate is that the same thing has been done for years by a group of SJWs, then I am sure that you will rejoice in the new-found fairness that the rules changes will bring.”

    Yup. Because changes to the rules always favor outsiders and never serve entrenched interests. Heh.

    Know what it looks like to non-fen? “Bar the gates and man the walls, them wrong type of people wanna come in”

    @Aaron

    “Your complaint about the age of Worldcon attendees has been made since at least 1970, and probably longer than that. Worldcon skews “old” because science fiction fans who become “Fans” usually stay Fans until they become too old to travel or die. And yet somehow Worldcon always seems to have new people arriving to replace the ones who pass away. You’re beating a tired and discredited drum when you whine about the median age of Worldcon attendees.”

    Umm thats because the 1970 were a time when worldcon nearly did die. Look at the numbers. Worldcon is stagnant. While every other sci-fi and fantasy related con has grown by leaps and bounds worldcon has fallen asleep in its own drool. Are you sure its a “tired and discredited drum”? Or is just that the alarm has been going off for so long you think the noise is normal?

    “Having more voters won’t make the award any more or less relevant. I know it is difficult to grasp, but there are awards that have usually had more voters than the Hugo Awards do, and they are not regarded as being more prestigious than the Hugos.”

    We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

  12. marsultor13:

    Yup. Because changes to the rules always favor outsiders and never serve entrenched interests. Heh.

    Know what it looks like to non-fen? “Bar the gates and man the walls, them wrong type of people wanna come in”

    Actually, it’s always been an explicit goal in the E Pluribus Hugo proposal that slates should not be entirely eliminated; just given as close to proportional representation as possible along with all the other ballots. In fact, we deliberately chose a tie-breaking scheme that FAVORS slate works over non-slate works when one slate work is already being eliminated, on the basis of fairness.

    Have you read what E Pluribus Hugo is about? There are over 3000 messages in four threads where the type of nomination counting was hashed out, and wording gone over, but here is the most recent thread, which includes a slightly out-of-date version of the proposal and FAQ as its main post: http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/016262.html

    The proposal and FAQ are still being revised for wording down in the comments, and so it’s a little clumsy, but that’s the meat of the proposal. Where, exactly, do you think the barring of the doors comes into that proposal? Please be specific about what doors are being barred and how.

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