17 thoughts on “2018 Academy Award Winners”

1. I haven’t been too sure about THE SHAPE OF WATER. would you feel the same way If “it” was a dog?

2. @Robert —

   The “it” in this case is an intelligent, sentient being — clearly more akin mentally to human than dog, and clearly capable of consent.

3. My problems with The Shape of Water include the mute woman who introduces the movie naked and displayed for what you might call the male gaze, the stereotypical lonely middle-aged gay man lusting after young hunks, and the stereotypical sassy black friend with her stereotypical lazy, good-for-nothing husband. Plus the Beauty and the Beast plot is the most sexist of a lot of sexist fairytales. Yeah, I was not impressed with The Shape of Water. Get Out and Lady Bird were my faves among this year’s crop.

   I was happy for Coco, too, and that it won Best Song.

4. @BigelowT —

   I didn’t have any problem with the “stereotypical” (as you put it, not that I necessarily agree) characters, in part because showing out-groups and in-groups was essential to the point of the movie. The whole movie is somewhat stylized and fairy-tale-ish, so I don’t think it’s surprising that the characters represented are also somewhat stylized/tropish (or as you put it, “stereotypical”). It was not intended to be a documentary or a realistic portrayal of anything.

   Plus the Beauty and the Beast plot

   But that isn’t what’s going on in this movie. In Beauty and the Beast, the beast becomes human. In Shape of Water, they are both “beasts” of a sort (one a rejected mute woman, one a creature) — and the woman becomes more like the creature (fur tbrf gb yvir va gur jngre naq tebjf tvyyf) rather than the creature becoming human.

5. Even del Toro says he was doing Beauty and the Beast. I know that it’s different in that respect, but as in most Beauty and the Beast plots, she gives up everything to save the Beast. I realize there are other things going on here that are outside the romance plot, but, as I said, del Toro isn’t making a secret of the fact that he was doing Beauty and the Beast. Also, it is very similar to Splash, except without the humor, even down to the threats from evil scientists and government types who want to cut up the mermaid/merman. Don’t get me wrong—you are free to love The Shape of Water as much as you want. I just feel a little less enthusiastic about it for the reasons I pointed out, reasons that matter to me.

6. BigelowT, I have to admit that I have not been able to muster the enthusiasm to go see the movie, for the reasons you’ve given. I’m just so, so tired of all of those tropes.

7. I like The Beauty And The Beast when they actually let the beast remain a beast. Or when Beauty is disappointed when Beast turns into boring human. Could do with more gender switch on that trope though. Without Beast being a magical pixie monster girl.

8. I have to admit that I don’t quite get the current backlash against The Shape of Water. I mean, a genre film and a well made one at that won an Oscar in the best picture and best director categories, which almost never happens. It was one of two genre films nominated in those categories and the other genre film took home an Oscar in the best screenplay category.

   I understand that several people would have preferred Get Out to win. And personally, I would have been very happy with either Get Out or The Shape of Water to win. I wouldn’t even have minded Lady Bird, though I don’t particularly care for Catholic schoolgirls or mother daughter dramas (I haven’t seen the film and had never heard of it, before it got several Oscar nominations, but that’s what I gather it is based on articles and clips).

   But Get Out winning was always a long shot, even without racist Academy members dismissing it sight unseen. And if not The Shape of Water, what would you prefer to have won? Nostalgia laden WWII flicks like Dunkirk or The Darkest Hour? Blatant Oscar bait like The Post or The Phantom Thread? Three Billboards Outside Wherever?

   We got a good winner this year and a genre film at that, which is more than you can say for most years.

9. Cora: I have to admit that I don’t quite get the current backlash against The Shape of Water… what would you prefer to have won?

   I am not aware of a backlash against the movie; are you referring to Filers’ opinions (which, from what I’ve seen in various other threads, are mostly positive), or is there something going on elsewhere which I haven’t heard about?

   I’m agnostic on this, and have no problem that it won. As with the Nebulas, generally only around 30% of Oscar nominees and winners reflect my tastes, so I’m rarely very invested in the results.

10. @BigelowT —

    Even del Toro says he was doing Beauty and the Beast.

    What he actually said was that he was doing a new type of Beauty and the Beast. Here’s one of his quotes about it, from Variety:

    “The idea was to create, through fantasy and science fiction forms, a new type of ‘Beauty and the Beast’ in which the beauty is someone you can relate to — not a perfect princess,” said del Toro, who also directed and produced the film. “And the beast doesn’t need to transform to find love.”

    she gives up everything to save the Beast.

    She doesn’t “give up everything”, though — she actually finds her own power. What she gave up was loneliness, a dead-end job, and a sense that she was a powerless victim and worthless. Through deciding to save the creature, she found out that she had power, that she could make changes, and — hey — those weren’t scars after all, they were gills. The creature didn’t give her any of those revelations; she discovered them within herself because of her choice to embrace “the other”.

    Beauty and the Beast is about making the beastly more human — that beastliness, being “other”, is a curse. The Shape of Water says that “otherness” is beautiful in itself and doesn’t need to change.

    Also, it is very similar to Splash

    No, it isn’t. Splash was about how cute Daryl Hannah could be with a fake tail — The Shape of Water is about accepting a creature with spines and gills who eats cats.

11. Contrarius: Splash was about how cute Daryl Hannah could be with a fake tail — The Shape of Water is about accepting a creature with spines and gills

    I’ll agree that Splash is more lightweight than The Shape of Water — but this is, I think, unfair to Splash, which was a nice subversion of The Little Mermaid.

     
    Contrarius: who eats cats.

    And yet another reason why I’m not keen to go see the movie. 😛

12. Splash is what I was thinking about when I wrote magical pixie monster girl. I would like to see a real inhuman monster mermaid next time.

13. @JJ —

    And yet another reason why I’m not keen to go see the movie. ?

    Well, to be fair, ur ernyyl bayl ngr BAR png. Naq ur jnf uhatel naq fpnerq ng gur gvzr, naq qvqa’g xabj nalguvat nobhg jung jnf tbvat ba. Fb lbh pbhyq uneqyl oynzr gur thl. 😉

    Also — apologies to anyone who cares for posting somewhat spoilery things in my previous message. I’ll try to be more diligent with rot13!

    My own complaints about the movie — and yes, I do have some — are much more practically oriented. For instance:

    fhccbfrqyl gurl nyy unir gb jnvg sbe n pregnva qngr jura n pnany jvyy bcra fb gung gur perngher pna or eryrnfrq vagb gur pnany naq fjvz gb gur frn. Ohg gurl’er va Onygvzber, sbe urnira’f fnxr — jul qba’g gurl whfg qebc uvz bss gur pybfrfg cvre naq unir qbar jvgu vg?

    and

    Guvf perngher jnf bevtvanyyl pncgherq va gur Nznmba — serfu jngre. Fb jul va gur jbeyq jbhyq fur jnag gb qhzc uvz va gur frn naljnl?? Naq jul jbhyq fur arrq gb or chggvat fnyg va uvf jngre?????

    and

    V pbzcyrgryl qvq ABG ohl gur fprar jurer fur fghssrq gur gbjryf haqre gur onguebbz qbbe naq gura sybbqrq gur ebbz. Lrf, V xabj gung gur svyz vf n fbeg bs snvelgnyr naq abg fhccbfrq gb or gbb ernyvfgvp, ohg guvf bar jnf n oevqtr gbb sne sbe zr. Svefg, lbh jbhyq arire npghnyyl sybbq gur jubyr ebbz gung jnl — gur jngre jbhyq or yrnxvat guebhtu gur jnyyf, guebhtu gur sybbe, naq fb ba rabhtu gb cerirag vg. Frpbaq, gur jrvtug bs nyy gung jngre jbhyq cebonoyl pbyyncfr gur sybbe jryy orsber gur ebbz tbg shyy.

    So, you see, I’m not blind to the fact that the film had faults. But I’m completely on board with the message it was trying to get across. 🙂

14. I haven’t seen The Shape of Water. But Shrek already did the version of Beauty and the Beast where the Beast doesn’t become human. And did it pretty well.

15. @Bookworm —

    That’s a closer parallel, though still not perfect. In Shrek, it turned out his love interest was also a troll — so she’s the one who changed, not the “beast”. But they still turned out to be two of the same kind. In The Shape of Water, ng gur irel raq Ryvmn qbrf ghea bhg gb unir tvyyf — ohg fur qbrfa’g punatr vagb n perngher. Gurl ner fgvyy gjb qvssrerag glcrf bs orvat.

    Does anyone here think Shrek was sexist?

16. They’re not films, but I’m surprised no-one’s mentioned Robin McKinley’s two goes at transforming Beauty and the Beast: Beauty and Rose Daughter.

17. Oor Wombat’s Bryony And Roses is another nice example.

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