aka It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a sad puppy in possession of a published story must be in want of a Hugo
From rules wonk to rap filk, we have it all in today’s roundup courtesy of Adam-Troy Castro, Keith “Kilo” Watt, Jameson Quinn, Ian Mond, Kat Jones, Lis Carey, Joe Sherry, Reinder Dijkhuis, Brian Niemeier, Rebekah Golden, Lou Antonelli and Vox Day. (Title credit goes out to today’s File 770 contributing editors Kurt Busiek and Peace Is My Middle Name.)
Vox Day in e-mail – May 26
[How many GamerGaters were involved during the Hugo nominating phase? Vox Day says people overestimated in today’s comments.]
The GamerGate involvement in RP/SP through the nomination period is limited to two individuals, me and Daddy Warpig. We are both original GG (GG before Baldwin) and we are both Rabid Puppies.
There are a few GGers who have gotten involved post-nomination, but I don’t know how many. The RP are basically the Vile Faceless Minions plus a few Dread Ilk.
You may wish to note that there are more Vile Faceless Minions (366) than Rabid Puppy nominating votes. That’s because the extent of the Rabid Puppies campaign was a single blog post. Every Rabid Puppy is a VP reader. We didn’t need GG and we knew it, as you can confirm from our pre-shortlist discussions. There are some GGers buying supporting memberships. How many, I do not know.
Adam-Troy Castro on Facebook – May 26
Among the revelations in the “Return of Kings” blog post about how women in publishing are keeping true men writers down:
If you are a first-time writer and the acquiring editor decides that you’re an asshole — literally, if she is given reason to believe you’re an asshole who will be a pain to work with — she will likely make the decision to not buy your book.
This is represented as part of the shameful status quo that is keeping men down….
The other option is, of course, to not be an asshole, and is left unconsidered.
Keith “Kilo” Watt on Making Light
“E Pluribus Hugo: Out of Many, A Hugo” – May 26
In this thread we will hammer out the formal language of the proposal, any FAQs we wish to include, and strategize for the presentation at the business meeting itself. At this point, we’ll consider the system itself locked in, so we are really only looking at the language.
- RME instead of 6th place
- (1,1), (1,2), or (1,2,2) for ties in points
- Option 2a (if there is a tie for nominations, eliminate the one with fewer points; if there is a tie for both nominations and points, eliminate them both)
There is one more issue that is still up for debate: Should we explicitly empower the Hugo admins to use further tie breakers in the future if they decide it’s necessary? I’ve written the proposal and FAQ explanations assuming that we do, however, a case can be made for not worrying about giving them the power explicitly. We should settle that question here. I think that the way I’ve written the “empowerment” makes it okay to include it, but for myself, I don’t feel a strong need to. I’m definitely not opposed to it, however.
….19. Wasn’t this system just designed by Social Justice Warriors to block the Good Stuff? It is true that much of the discussion for this system occurred on Teresa and Patrick Nielsen Hayden’s “Making Light” discussion board, and it is also true that groups such as the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies consider TNH and PNH to be The Enemy, and therefore completely biased and not to be trusted. Other than serving as occasional moderators, TNH and PNH had no real input in the discussions of the system, however. Those of us who worked on the system were very clear that our goal was not to keep the Sad/Rabid Puppies off of the Hugo ballot, and that any system which specifically targets any type of work is inherently wrong and unfair. One of the members of the group is a retired US Naval officer, a combat veteran, a certified Navy marksman, a Christian, and considers Robert Heinlein to be the greatest science fiction author who has ever lived. In short, he is exactly the Puppies’ demographic. But any slate, of any sort, be it a Sad Puppy or a Happy Kitten of Social Justice, breaks the Hugo Award because a small percentage of voters can effectively prevent any other work from appearing on the final ballot. This is a major flaw in the Hugo nomination system, and it is a flaw that must be fixed if the integrity of the award is to be maintained. Politics should play no role whatsoever in whether a work is Hugo-worthy or not.
Jameson Quinn in a comment on Making Light
Final update on the gofundme:
Fully funded, and beyond!
I’m truly in awe of the generosity this community has shown, both to me personally and to the cause of voting reform. Not only has the main campaign received $1440, beyond the goal of $1400; but I’ve also been offered a Sasquan attending membership, so in effect it’s actually $250 over the goal.
Ian Mond on The Hysterical Hamster
“Who Should Win The Hugo Award For Best Novel” – May 27
The Anderson in particular led me to question this whole notion purported by the Sad / Rabid Puppies that good SF has big ideas and entertains. Having read two examples of this sort of SF, both the KJA and Charles Gannon’s awful Nebula nominee, Trial by Fire (review forthcoming) I can only conclude that my idea of entertainment and big, high concept ideas lives in a very different Universe than what the Sad Puppies are aiming to promote. This isn’t snobbishness***** on my part, I just struggle to see the appeal of novels that are so poorly written.
But let’s get back to the point of this blog post:
Who Do I Want To See Win – I tossed and turned about this, but I’ve finally landed with The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison (Sarah Monette)
Who Do I Think Will Win – I might not have been so keen on the novel, but I believe that Ann Leckie will take home her second novel Hugo for Ancillary Sword.
Kat Jones on CiaraCat Sci-Fi Review
“Review: The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison” – May 26
It’s an interesting slice of life, and I found myself caring about some of the characters. But for me, it wasn’t a compelling STORY.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
This is the first pure fun I’ve had reading Hugo nominees this year, barring The Goblin Emperor, which I read prior to the announcement of the ballot.
Joe Sherry on Adventures In Reading
“Thoughts on the Hugo Award Nominees: Professional Artist” – May 26
There is a lot of quality art being produced by the 2015 nominees. Julie Dillon, last year’s winner for Professional Artist, continued to produce excellent work. Based on their work included in the Hugo Voter’s Packet, Greenwood, Pollack, and DouPonce have also produced good work. As a point of personal preference, Greenwood is my top choice here, but it was very close between Dillon and Greenwood. While referencing the Voter’s Packet is a touch unfair because unless you’re also a voter, you can’t see that work. Unfortunately, except for Dillon, none of the other nominees have work posted at the Hugo Eligible Artists tumblr (a great reference for both fan and pro work, by the way), but you should be able to browse the various websites I’ve linked above to get a feel for their work.
Reinder Dijkhuis on Obsession Du Jour
“Notes/first impressions: 3 Hugo-nominated graphic novels” – May 25
Above, I’ve dwelled on the flaws of the comics discussed a lot, and I would like to mention that I really did enjoy two of them and found things to enjoy in the third. They have flaws but they’re not disastrous ones. As the incompleteness problem is apparently par for the course for this category, I’ve decided to ignore this and give all works the benefit of the doubt on that score as far as award-worthiness is concerned. I have decided to vote all four above No Award for the Hugos, in, as it happens, the exact same order as I read and discussed them. My preliminary vote for the category, then, is
- Ms Marvel
- Sex Criminals
- Rat Queens
- Saga
- No Award.
Reinder Dijkhuis on Obsession Du Jour
“Notes/First Impressions: Zombie Nation by Carter Reid” – May 26
…. Everything about it looks copied from other comics. That includes the writing, which is based on just a small number of stale, sexist jokes and pop culture references that need to be retired. Who in their right minds nominated this?
https://twitter.com/RoguesClwydRhan/status/603300743957848064
Brian Niemeier on Superversive SF
“Transhuman and Subhuman Part VI: Swordplay in Space” – May 26
“Why is the preferred weapon of the Galactic Empire the sword?” John C. Wright tackles that question in the sixth part of his essay collection Transhuman and Subhuman.
Following the premise that a man’s attitude toward war and death reveals his outlook on life, Wright examines a selection of great science fiction books for the answer to why authors attempting to imagine the future so often employ archaic conventions.
Wright posits five basic views on war…
Rebekah Golden
“2015 Hugo Awards Best Movie: Reviewing Lego Movie” – May 26
I really liked the Lego Movie. I believe it has a lot more content to it than first glance would give it. It is interesting and has a good emotional punch as well as a significant number of fun moments.
Lou Antonelli on Facebook – May 26
On the way to Kansas City for ConQuest 46, I had to drive through Hugo, Oklahoma, so I stopped and took a selfie of me with the city sign, in celebration of my …two Hugo nominations.
Now, I know right now, some of you are thinking, “Hah! That’s as close to a Hugo as you will ever get, Antonelli!”
Lou Antonelli poses with sign outside Hugo, Oklahoma.
Vox Day on Vox Popoli
“You don’t like the medicine, Doctor?” – May 26
And because Public Enemy is always appropriate:
He book-reviewed, he S.J.W’d
Vile minions viewed his anti-Puppy feud
One-star the rating, listen to him double trouble
He signs in now he’s pushing for the lower level
Like crashing cars he’s out there stealing stars
From books he took without a single look.
Taking a toll ’cause his soul broke with the poll
From the revelation… of a Puppy Nation.
Now this is what I mean an anti-Puppy machine
If Hugo come out at all, he won’t come out clean
But look around here go the sound of the wrecking clown
Boom and pound when he put ’em down
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I’m just laughing so hard at File770’s Mutual Adpuppiation Society.
Seriously, guys, get a room.
@Matt Y, that’s the really happy side effect of this whole thing. I only know the fancast because I’m listening to it to review it as a nominee for the Hugo.
Turns out in exchange for reading “Spiritual Plain” I get to learn about a whole bunch of awesome that I’ve been missing out on. Karma can be kind too.
Hwaet! The Great-Danes’ want glory through dubious achievements
The god-voice former infamy we have heard of,
How puppies displayed then their prowess-in-prose.
Theodore, their mighty king, in honor of whom they are often called Teddys.
From many a people their chrome-rockets tore.
Since first they found themselves rocketless and wretched,
The puppies had sadness: no comfort they got for it,
Waxed ’neath the woe, word-honor hungered for
Till all the fans o’er sea were compelled to
Bow to their bidding and bring them their nominations:
One of the things that bothers me about the “Redshirts = fanfic” thing is that the largest single group of fannish women is very firmly in the fanworks part of fandom. The sneers at fanfiction always seem to me to carry a faint whiff of sexism. That, and people who think that fanfiction never does anything interesting must not have read very much of it, and that reminds me of people who sneer at speculative fiction from ignorance. Lots of “real” stories are based off prior stories.
(I do give a free pass to authors with delicate feelings about people playing with their stuff. Those delicate feelings are reinforced with copyright concerns.)
Even if Redshirts is fanfic… So what?
Kevin, that is all true. You will not hear me call for the LonCon3 Administrators to read puppy nominations live on UStream!
ULTRAGOTHA I hope that can go in the zine.
Thank you @Meredith for pointing out the “fanfic isn’t real fic” bias. After all, how many fantasy novels are just people exploring their love for Tolkien? What literate person isn’t derivative in some way or another?
REDSHIRTS is just as much fanfic as “One Bright Star To Guide Them” or Wright’s William Hope Hodgson pastiches.
ULTRAGOTHA: Beo-Woof!
Didn’t Watts almost win for “The Things”?
Rebekah – There is a lot of good about it I’ve found as well. I mostly just watch new release lists and use recommendation lists and various awards for books to read. Being exposed to the wider world of sites like this, Black Gate, people having fun with filking, and so forth is like seeing a whole fun bunch of things to interact with that I never thought to sought out and barely knew existed. For that I’m nearly grateful to the puppies.
Inherit the Whine
Mike Glyer –
Beal-woof?
Nick – REDSHIRTS is just as much fanfic as “One Bright Star To Guide Them” or Wright’s William Hope Hodgson pastiches.
Woah there, Redshirts at least had something different and interesting to say and was a nifty reflection on the craft itself. Not slamming fanfic here, I mean Meredith has a point most Fantasy was Tolkien fanfic for a long time, just the analogy.
@Rebekah
Its something of a pet issue of mine!
May Tree:
But no one has been able to point at a proposed “Ops” from 8chan regarding the Hugos. Where is the evidence?
I have no doubt that SP/RP attracted some gators, but I can find no evidence for any organized campaigning. Yes, there were some tries to reach out, but if it had succeeded, the results would likely have been different.
ULTRAGOTHA: “Beal-woof?”
That might be even better.
@Matt Y
Well, not all fanfiction is good, either… 🙂 Its the assumption that “fanfic” and “worthless” are one and the same that’s the problem.
I spent some time ranting to my poor mother that one of the short stories had structural issues that reminded me of nothing more than a first attempt at fanfic, which while quite forgivable in a new writer with no editor or beta reader, is not so forgivable in something published let alone something up for an award.
It wasn’t Mr Wright’s work, though, as I was pretty distracted by everything else wrong with that.
Darn it, I missed a rhyme. Fixed, from line 12:
And seem’d as fen should nominate, at worst,
The stuff they like to read; so, not the first
Are you to castigate us. Ser, ’t was not
For justice Ilk and League Of Evil sought
To join the Puppy slate: perhaps
The Hound and the Fury
Likewise, Matt Y — but I won’t be sending them a thank-you card.
@Meredith I’m pretty sure you’re talking about “Spiritual Plain” – it sounds much like the verbal rant my husband had to listen to before I posted my measured review. Of course, I haven’t read all the short stories yet so it could be another.
And I’m going to finish off my night with an admission of approximate age:
Back when I was a teenager, before the internet, the best part about going to cons was trading the much worn spiral bound notebooks full of hand written fanfic.
That said, it’s been a long time since I’ve gone to a con. I’m currently debating upgrading my membership to attending. Because you guys are awesome.
Me either JJ. While I’m happy to have been exposed to various parts of fandom through this, I’d rather it be under happier circumstances.
Ancillary Puppies? Tea With The Bleak Puppy? Time Enough For Pups? Do Mandroids Dream of Electric Pups? Hound of the Basket Cases? Whining Puppies In Amber? The Poops of Avalon? Biting the Hand of Oberon? The Loon Is A Harsh Mistress? The Puppy Masters? God Whimperer of Dune? Fellowship of the Whinge? The Poo Towers? The Peeing on the Doorstep? Lord Howl’s Bane? Time As A Helix of Semi-Precious Bones?
And how can we forget Ellison’s masterpiece, “A Goy and His Dog?”
@Troutwaxer
+1 for God Whimperer of Dune & Lord Howl’s Bane
+1 for God Whimperer of Dune & Lord Howl’s Bane
Ellison actually wrote a teleplay called “The Whimper of Whipped Dogs”
To read, or not to read — that is the question.
Whether ’tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The words and phrases of atrocious writing
or to no award a sea of nominees,
and by so doing, end them? To rest, to read
no more; and thereby we end
the head-ache, and the thousand strained lines
that Prose is heir to? ‘Tis a consummation
devoutly to be wished. To stop, to sleep,
to sleep, perchance to dream; Aye, there’s the rub
for in that sleep of Hugos, what dreams may come
when we’ve read works to make blood boil
must give us pause. There’s the respect
that makes Calamity of a Hugo packet:
For who would bear the whips and scorns of Wright,
the Castalian’s wrong, the Kr*tman’s contumely,
the pangs of unedited tweets, or Lou’s entree,
the insolence of bird, and the turns
of plot that naught but straight road takes,
when he himself might his quietus make
with just no award?
@Rebekah
Good guess! It was that story.
My fannish activity is all post-internet (my “Hugo year” was Cyteen, just to date me very thoroughly), but I’ve always enjoyed hearing about the fanfiction exchanges from older fen.
I was very sad to miss LonCon but sadly it ended up not being feasible for health reasons, and of course Spokane is far too far away. I’m hoping Worldcon will come back to Britain in the not too distant future and I can have a second chance.
But no one has been able to point at a proposed “Ops” from 8chan regarding the Hugos. Where is the evidence?
I have no doubt that SP/RP attracted some gators, but I can find no evidence for any organized campaigning. Yes, there were some tries to reach out, but if it had succeeded, the results would likely have been different.
This isn’t a court of law or even a grand jury proceeding, so the cries for “evidence” and “proof” are very puzzling. If it pleases you to think GG isn’t heavily involved in the Puppying, that’s fine by me. I think the fact that GG was specifically reached out to, and that the results were very Gatorish, and that we’ve got Gators coming in here and elsewhere to push GG talking points (hey, see what went on on GRRM’s blog right after he started covering the Hugos — Gators Gators everywhere, nor any stop to think!) really looks like GG heard Correia and VD’s call and answered.
I’m not sure what the null hypothesis is here… that the Puppies are all NOT Gators? What else, then? VD’s fans? Sure, but most of them are probably Gators anyway since he’s a Gator and they’re an ovine bunch at the best of times. It’s not like they have to be one or the other.
Again, though — this is just what I think is most likely, based on who did what, what happened, and which folks have been showing up to defend the Puppying. Sharp teeth, leather skin, crocodile tears….Looks like a bunch of Gators to me, but if you don’t think that, then you don’t think that. *Shrug*
And also — in what way do you think the results would be different if, in your opinion, GG was heavily involved? What would have happened?
Meredith, vote for Helsinki!
I hear intra-Europe flights are inexpensive.
@ Steven Schwartz
Wonderful! I wondered when Will would join us.
Ultragotha, I am seriously considering it!
How the Puppy Got Its Slots
The Fannish Prisoner
I am not a free man. I am a puppy!
The Whining? Return of the Cringe? Howl’s Moving Target? Dagger of the Whined? Splinter of the Whined’s Eye? Collar of the Mind? Path of the Furry? Puppyhood’s End? Inconstant Loon? The Long Leash of Gil Hamilton? Ringworld’s Puppies? The Trouble With Poodles? The Naked Whine? Neutered Star?
I am not a free man. I am a puppy!
Shouldn’t that be “I am not a puppy dog! I am a human being?”
@May Tree: I think for some here, the GG involvement they’re interested in is mainly as to whether or not they *directly* took part in the nomination phase, and now in the voting phase. Them being a bunch of unmitigated arses or coming along and shoehorning their talking points is secondary.
Mind you, I don’t quite agree. There’s always a core element of GG that revels in escalation to the point of threats, stalking, and doxxing, and my concern is that it’s just a matter of time before *they* show up. Heck, given the mindset of “they’re threatening our livelihoods” that’s popped up the last couple of days, they may already be here.
@ULTRAGOTHA, Troutwaxer:
Try this: “I am not a ballot! I am a Sad Puppy!”
(Be seeing you…)
“What do you want?”
“Hugos.”
“You won’t get them.”
“By hook or by crook, we will.”
@snowcrash
@May Tree: I think for some here, the GG involvement they’re interested in is mainly as to whether or not they *directly* took part in the nomination phase, and now in the voting phase. Them being a bunch of unmitigated arses or coming along and shoehorning their talking points is secondary.
Mind you, I don’t quite agree. There’s always a core element of GG that revels in escalation to the point of threats, stalking, and doxxing, and my concern is that it’s just a matter of time before *they* show up. Heck, given the mindset of “they’re threatening our livelihoods” that’s popped up the last couple of days, they may already be here.
I don’t see any way to prove who did or did not vote the Puppy Slate and what their attitude is vis-a-vis the Gators though. What we know is that Larry didn’t succeed in swamping the ballot in previous years; this year he put out a call for help from GG and the ballot got flooded with Puppy Poo. Where did this influx of new Puppies arrive from, $40 checks in hand? VD’s fans, sure, but I’d bet that the overlap between “fans of VD” and “supporters of GG” is quite large. It’s not “proof”, but what’s the alternate hypothesis? To me, it looks like Occam’s Razor slices this question quite neatly, but no one else has to see it that way if they don’t want to.
As for the worst of GG showing up — well, The Puppies already have Tom Kratman and Lou Antonelli and of course VD himself, so I’m not clear there’s any need for GG’s nastiest elements to show up in force; they seem almost redundant at this point. GG’s worst also have a habit of only going after vulnerable targets without much in the way of resources to defend themselves; Scalzi, GRRM, and the Nielsen Haydens might well be higher-profile targets than GG wants to tangle with.
@May Tree
I think its just that nerds prefer the provable. 🙂
I’m inclined to agree with a few of the others that if there had been a significant GG presence there’d be a lot more chaos and unpleasantness. Which is not to say there isn’t any – there have been GGers here (enough that I’m digging out my Big List of Links for Rebutting GG Lies and Misrepresentations) and at GRRM’s blog, but I’d be surprised if there were more than a couple of dozen, at most, involved in the nominations.
Steven Schwartz at 10:23 pm:
*APPLAUSE*
That’s wonderful Steven.
“But I don’t want to go among sad people,” Alice remarked.
“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Pup: “we’re all sad here. I’m sad. You’re sad.”
“How do you know I’m sad?” said Alice.
“You must be,” said the Pup, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”
@Matt Y & JJ,
I take solace in the occasional silver lining (getting introduced to new neat stuff, to say nothing of the filks & pastiches) in this affair.
Obligatory XKCD.
@Meredith,
As people said Helsinki stands a good chance. I would like to think that Dublin in 2019 does too and that is even closer and would be so much easier and cheaper to get to.
@Meredith please share The Big List of Links. Resources always desired.
The artist painted a lot of covers for the second edition of Dungeons and Dragons back in the ’90s, I gather.
But she hasn’t! Her feet are conveniently tucked under the armpits of that ogre she’s slain.
I’m in the arts, and one thing I have developed a keen eye for over the decades is which artists try to hide feet so they don’t have to paint them.
I see the Sad Puppies list their slate
These are works we think are great
Science fiction is about space wars
Your arty shit just makes me snore
You know
It’s true
Sad Puppies know what is good for you
Blasters
And swords
So why do they end below No Award
After Larry gave it a shot
He promoted Brad to number one spot
Brad he made a big song and dance
About how all would have an equal chance
But then
Surprise
Everything slated was by the same guys
All friends
Of Brad
To top it all off all the writing was bad.
The Sad Puppies now sing a different song
They tell us how we’re getting them wrong
They never wanted to be untoward
It’s all about corruption in the Hugo awards
Ess Jay
Double Ewes
They are the enemies of me and you
Skalzi
And Tor
Affirmative action – such a bore!
If your going to the Spokane con
Fingers crossed you have lots of fun
Intresting panels and famous guests
Chats at the bar and not much rest
You will
Be floored
On the gala night of the Hugo award
Puppies
At bay
After No Award sweeps their mess away.