MidAmeriCon II Posts Weapons Policy

The 2016 Worldcon, MidAmeriCon II, today posted its weapons policy on the convention website.

Convention weapons policies commonly are of most interest to cosplayers, however, the news stories about open carry and comments on a few sf blogs have combined to raise questions whether real weapons could be worn by members within the convention spaces. The answer is: no.

Weapons Policy

  1. No real or dangerous weapon, or any item that can be mistaken for one, may be carried at any time in the Kansas City Convention Center or within other hotel areas under the control of MidAmeriCon II. A “dangerous weapon” is defined as “any weapon that is readily capable of lethal use.”
  2. The Convention Center will have a security station in the main lobby to inspect prop weapons for compliance with the center’s policy. A prop weapon that is realistic in appearance must be inspected and tagged by the Convention Center’s inspection check station in the main lobby. Any prop weapon that is carried in the Convention Center must be submitted for inspection; any person carrying a prop weapon that has not been inspected will be directed to the lobby or asked to remove the prop weapon from the center.
  3. All realistic weapons must be brought to Convention Headquarters (ConHQ) located in the exhibit hall (there will be signs) to be peace-bonded. If you are unsure whether your weapon might be considered realistic, you must present it to ConHQ, which is the final arbiter of which weapons require peace-bonding.
  4. No functional projectile weapons, props, or toys are permitted anywhere in the Convention Center or other MidAmeriCon II convention space, regardless of whether they are peace bonded.
  5. Any prop or realistic weapon purchased in the Dealers’ Room, or any item purchased that could be mistaken for one, must be wrapped and immediately transported out of the Convention Center, and may not be carried in the center unless it is first inspected as specified in items 2 and 3.
  6. If you are competing in the Masquerade and you have concerns about whether a prop or realistic weapon that you intend to use as part of your presentation will be permitted into the Convention Center, you must contact the Masquerade director as early as possible.
  7. Any person who displays or brandishes a prop, real, or realistic weapon, or any item that can be mistaken for one, in a threatening or harmful manner may have their MidAmeriCon II membership revoked without refund, be expelled from the Convention Center, and could be subject to arrest.

MidAmeriCon II believes that if you follow the above rules, you should not have a problem with the Convention Center policy. However, if you are told that your weapon is not allowed, by the Convention Center or MidAmeriCon II staff, you will need to immediately return it to your hotel room or car.

Any item which is prohibited by governing law is prohibited under this policy.

[Thanks to Jared Dashoff for the story.]

96 thoughts on “MidAmeriCon II Posts Weapons Policy

  1. What do you suggest I should have done, slugged him? Cut his hand off? Have him arrested?

    Clearly Phantom thinks you should have taken the sword from him and run him through. Its the only way he’ll learn.

  2. @Phantom People are buying swords at the convention, and walking around with them at will. Inside the box becomes outside the box by the application of a thumbnail to the packing tape, and yet there have to date been zero fatalities. Shocking.

    And my point was the minute you opened that box and started walking around with that katana, the next security guard to see you would ask you to put it back in the box or take it outside, so no you don’t get to just waltz around with a sword like you are implying. Do u even convention, bro? Or do you just get a weird thrill out of pretending safety rules are uncool and pointless? Most of the time, we’re not concerned that someone is out with serious intent to cause harm with a weapon, we are more worried about someone being careless or getting carried away posing in their outfit and swinging around something that can take out someone’s eye. The US has way more cause for concern for those with lethal weapons seeking to do harm, and for good reason which you already know since I’ve seen you blather on about gun rights, but since you evoked Canada specifically, you also have to know gun culture up here is not the same at all compared to the US. And I’d like to keep it that way by not doing silly pretending that bringing guns or swords to a convention would be just like ok and normal.

  3. Clearly Phantom thinks you should have taken the sword from him and run him through. Its the only way he’ll learn.

    ObPratchett: THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.

  4. @Cassy B, you might gag someone to death with it! I get a little urpy just reading the words “tongue depressor”.
    (TW for nausea)
    There was one newbie doctor who I didn’t mind urping on. My mom warned him “She has a really strong gag reflex” and he blithely gave her the “oh not a problem for ME, silly woman” attitude. My veggie beef soup lunch ended up covering him. I am woman, hear me barf.

    @Oneiros, I was particularly fond of my basket-hilt rapier. Even more than my katana. Although of course I wore the katana to the Highlander con.

    @Sunhawk: the “wrap it and take it to your car/room” policy has been standard at all the US cons I’ve gone to for the past 10 years or so. So it’s not just a Canuckistan rule. Peacebonding has been a thing for 30 years. Realistic weapons pointed at people (or carried outside the con area) have been a no-no for 20, lest SWAT come upon you.

    Puppies are not old enough to have gone to any convention where you were allowed to just wave weapons around.

  5. Cassy B on May 13, 2016 at 11:46 am said: I really am sorry for The Phantom that he can’t strut around Worldcon with the real or ersatz weaponry that would make him happy.

    I generally strut around with a cane, because bad knee. Canes, even the shitty aluminum old-lady ones like I carry, are diabolical weapons. Look up “tactical umbrella”. So your “control the idiots” policy does not actually control anyone, nor does it make you one tiny bit safer.

    As an intellectual exercise, ask yourself why The Phantom carries an old-lady cane.

    Cassy B on May 13, 2016 at 1:13 pm said: “He was, maybe, 12 years old. What do you suggest I should have done, slugged him? Cut his hand off? Have him arrested? I gave him a lecture. I also gave a lecture to his parent.”

    What you should have done is kept control of your weapon. You let a f-ing 12 year old get the drop on you? That puts you in the rubber sword squad. That one is on -you-, my friend.

    Aaron on May 13, 2016 at 12:53 pm said: I see that now that Phantom has been made aware that the policy covers his whine, he’s decided that the problem isn’t the policy, but rather an imagined policy he’s invented in his head that he is sure will be implemented in the future.

    No Aaron, the policy is wrong headed and dangerously stupid. Pencils really are deadly weapons. If you don’t think so, as an intellectual exercise go check out how far it is between your skin and your heart, and have a look at what’s in between. Hint, it’s meat. For a cold shower afterward, look up the thickness of the temporal bone, and ask yourself if it would stop a sharpened pencil. Hint, no.

    Weapons restrictions do not restrict weapons. They restrict -you-. If you do not believe this is true, you have not flown recently. Surrender your nail clippers and tiny plastic GI Joe weapons, citizen.

    If you think more of this pointless restriction makes you safer, you’re in luck. The TSA is trying very hard to get airline-level security extended to buses, subways and major public events.

    And prom. Santa Fe High School, TSA security, at the prom. For real.

    And no, I’m not giving you links. Google it.

  6. lurkertype on May 13, 2016 at 6:07 pm said: Puppies are not old enough to have gone to any convention where you were allowed to just wave weapons around.

    I’m old enough to remember when machine guns were legal to own in Canada. That’s how I know restricting weapons is security theater, I remember when we didn’t bother with it. Fly to Florida with a jack knife in your pocket and just a driver’s license.

    Funny how crime rates are so much higher -now- than they were then. Almost as if this policy does the opposite of what they say it will. At best, it does nothing at all.

    My larger point, for the reading impaired, is that in the next couple of years, very very soon, ALL weapons, real or cosplay, will be banned from cons and public spaces generally. Showing up to ComicCon with a fake sword hilt held up by a Popsicle stick will get you a SWAT roll-out and full facility lock down. “Because safety Phantom, you retard! Somebody might run with scissors!” You asked for it, you got it. Toyota.

    But I will still have my old-lady cane. Even if they take mine away and give me a government-issue “safe” one, it’s still a cane.

    Are we learning yet?

  7. @lurkertype – Apologies if I made it sound like these common sense type rules are a Canuck-only thing or even invention, definitely not! I was just speaking up particularly of Toronto Comicon and the surrounding Toronto area conventions, which I’m pretty familiar with. It’s very weird for someone to try to suggest they are somehow “free” of the rules that Phantom seems to have a problem with. I think the rest of us understand that these rules are in place for good reasons and, as the anecdotes have proven, they are rules that came about after dealing with the same problems over time or just having a spectacularly bad incident that makes you go “OK, let’s not have THAT happen a second time, thanks” but I guess to someone who likes to take a contrarian attitude to everything, that includes being hostile even to safety rules. Weird stuff.

  8. @Sunhawk: Oh, no, I wasn’t arguing with you, just pointing out that even in the famously weapons-friendly USA, these same rules have been around for a decade or two or three.

  9. The Phantom: But I will still have my old-lady cane. Even if they take mine away and give me a government-issue “safe” one, it’s still a cane.

    And the moment that you attempt to use it as a weapon, you will have 20 fans dogpiling you, you will spend at least one night in jail, and you will face prosecution. So I’m not sure what it is you think you’re bragging about — other than that you are spectacularly deficient in the arts of intelligence and logic.

  10. JJ: That’s when he’s going to pull out those pencils he keeps mentioning, and erase himself from the bottom of the pile. They don’t call him The Phantom for nothing.

  11. Mike Glyer: That’s when he’s going to pull out those pencils he keeps mentioning, and erase himself from the bottom of the pile. They don’t call him The Phantom for nothing.

    *snort*

  12. The Phantom:

    Funny how crime rates are so much higher -now- than they were then.

    Yes, it’s funny how crime rates rise. Except … what crime rates would that be?

    Crime rates in your native Canada have been on a downward trend for two decades: “And the numbers tell us that the overall police-reported crime rate in Canada has been falling for more than 20 years. ” http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2015001-eng.htm

    USA show a similar trend: ” Crime rates have varied over time, with a sharp rise after 1963, reaching a broad peak between the 1970s and early 1990s. Since then, crime has declined significantly in the United States,[1] and current crime rates are approximately the same as those of the 1960s.[2]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

    And the same is true for other industrialized countries as well.

  13. The Phantom, I was in a busy hallway, and the kid ran up behind me. It took a second at most. This was before peace-tying weapons was a thing. And that sort of incident is why peace-tying weapons is now a thing… or banning them outright.

    And, you know what? I’m good with that. That kid could have seriously hurt himself or others.

    The weapons rules aren’t to keep responsible people from having weapons. The weapons rules are to keep fools and children from having weapons.

    You still haven’t said what consequences I should have rained down on the kid.

    Nor have you stated whether you support the right of fen with fake tactical weaponry to wander into the local McDonalds where cops hang out. Nor have you stated whether you support the right of fen to shoot brightly glowing rayguns at oncoming traffic on a busy highway at night. What are your positions on these behaviors? These are real incidents which really happened, not slippery-slope hypotheticals. So what’s your position?

  14. Yes lots of things can be used as a weapon if someone is determined to do harm or is foolish. When I was a kid I shared a hospital room with a girl who lost her eye because someone threw a pencil in the classroom. One can’t avoid all foolish accidents caused by asshats, bullies, or thoughtless people.

    Weapons policies are designed for obvious dangers of lethal weapons which people frequently treat as toys and toys which get mistaken as lethal weapons by others and cops.

    Weapons policies can’t be designed to deal with asshats like The Phantom intent on doing harm to innocent bystanders just because they feel like doing it. No policy can deal with people like that. Just like laws against murder and theft don’t stop it. The laws may discourage some people and others when caught can be dealt with by removing them from the general population or repaying for damages done or both.

  15. Tasha Turner: No policy can deal with people like that. Just like laws against murder and theft don’t stop it.

    That’s well said.

  16. Tasha Turner on May 14, 2016 at 9:22 am said: Weapons policies can’t be designed to deal with asshats like The Phantom intent on doing harm to innocent bystanders just because they feel like doing it.

    Well Tasha, I’ve been ignoring your taunting for quite some time now. Seems like your apology of a couple months ago wasn’t worth much. Pity.

    If what you got from this conversation is that I’m “intent on doing harm to innocent bystanders”, that’s a shame. What I’m suggesting is that ever tightening restrictions on who can carry what and when inevitably and quickly leads to nobody is allowed anything ever. And you’ll still be no safer. Pencil to the eye, you know.

    And that is still pretending that cops are wonderful and understanding human being whop would never do anything wrong, and they are always right there when something bad happens. No sparrow shall fall! Seems realistic, right?

    But you knew that, and chose to ignore my intent to go for the cheap shot. Argh, you shot me, I am all wounded now. See me slinking off back to my troll bridge, all chastened. Or, you know, not so much.

    Hmm, is that a goat I hear? Excuse me, I must away, fresh goat beckons.

  17. Cassy B. on May 14, 2016 at 6:53 am said: You still haven’t said what consequences I should have rained down on the kid.

    You allege to have let a 12 year old draw your weapon against your will. In my book that makes you the problem. There is no excuse.

    As adults, we are required by life to PROTECT minor children, and that includes rude little jerks trying to see if the sword is real. You failed. You were clearly not competent to have that sword in your possession in public at that time. Consequence should have rained down on you.

    Kicking you -all- out would have been my call. The parents for not controlling the kid, and you for not controlling your weapon.

    You want to cosplay with a live weapon, I have no problem with it. It’s called “open carry”. Because my assumption is you’re an adult, willing and able to bear the consequences for your own actions. If you can’t maintain control of your weapon, leave it at home. If you feel you can’t accept even that tiny level of responsibility and must have some third party decide such issues for you, then freedom does not suit you.

    Nor have you stated whether you support the right of fen with fake tactical weaponry to wander into the local McDonalds where cops hang out. Nor have you stated whether you support the right of fen to shoot brightly glowing rayguns at oncoming traffic on a busy highway at night. What are your positions on these behaviors?

    Cops are dangerous, it is not wise to provoke them. You could die. See Ferguson PA for elucidation.

    People threatening cars with apparent weapons is a criminal matter. Banning cosplay weapons because somebody once upon a time acted in a criminal fashion seems stupid to me. That’s why we have jails for the guilty party, so I don’t get my green squirt gun confiscated by the state in case maybe I might do something bad some day.

    In other news, a bouncer at Club 77 in Hamilton Ontario was shot to death out in front of the bar a couple nights ago. Drug beef, allegedly. Club 77 is notable chiefly because it’s across the street from Fire Station 1, and maybe a block and a half from Hamilton Police Headquarters. It’s literally right down the street on King William. When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

    As you may have heard, Canada has a weapons policy about guns. Never the less, people do seem to be getting killed by them in ever-increasing numbers. Almost as if the law was being [gasp!] ignored!

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  19. I thought the assumption behind “Don’t wave a real-looking fake weapon around because someone will call the cops” was that cops are *not* always reasonable, do *not* always stop to assess the situation, and are just as capable of making an already bad situation worse.

    I’d like to see you directly answer Cassy’s questions. What should she have done to the kid who drew her sword?

    And answer the question what you think is a reasonable weapons policy, since real ones like the one above, based on experience, raise your ire?

  20. The Phantom, have you missed my comments about tongue-depressor sword blades for subsequent conventions? (Wide enough and long enough to keep the hilt from shifting on the scabbard; small enough to fit in the tang-hole. I recommend them.)

    A kid got stupid in a crowded hallway where it was not possible to maintain a safe buffer distance around me. Short of staying in my room for the whole convention, sidling along with my back to the wall every time I went anywhere, or hiring spotters to walk behind me everywhere I went, this was not an avoidable situation. Kids run fast and do stupid stuff. This is why I advocate no-live-weapons at conventions, and why I’ve never worn a live weapon at a convention since, because it’s happened to me, and I’ve seen it happen to others.

    Per your comment “cops are dangerous; it’s not wise to provoke them”. Do you therefore advocate banning real or realistic firearms from conventions so as not to provoke cops? Or not? Your position here seems inconsistent; I assume I’m not understanding you properly.

  21. Canada has a weapons policy about guns. Never the less, people do seem to be getting killed by them in ever-increasing numbers.

    Oh, really?

    I pointed out upthread that crime rates in Canada are falling, not rising. That includes homicide. I suppose it’s possible that homicide with guns is rising, but until I see numbers I’m going to assume this is more Phantom bullshit.

  22. Seems like all gunshops could be closed down. Pencils should be enough for those who want to arm themselves.

  23. I say allow open carry of pencils, but ban sharpeners. Also, no automatic pencils.

  24. Remember to keep pencils out of reach of children. Maintain awareness of your pencil at all times. Do not point your pencil at anyone unless you intend to use it.

  25. No one will ever attack a school again. Elementary schools are sure to have the greatest ratio of pencils to people this side of Dixon Ticonderoga.

  26. The mandatory waiting period before purchase is causing major issues with the SATs, we hear. There is also an ongoing “friendly poke” problem.

  27. Cassy B. on May 15, 2016 at 9:26 am said:The Phantom, have you missed my comments about tongue-depressor sword blades for subsequent conventions? (Wide enough and long enough to keep the hilt from shifting on the scabbard; small enough to fit in the tang-hole. I recommend them.)

    No, I saw them. The point you appear to be making is that -everybody- needs to do it your way, because that Bad Thing happened to you. Lots of people here agree with you.

    I don’t. Carry what you want, be in control of what you carry, or face the consequence like an adult. And don’t think you can make that decision for me. Old lady cane says you can’t, because its impossible. There’s always going to be a weapon somewhere.

    A kid got stupid in a crowded hallway where it was not possible to maintain a safe buffer distance around me. Short of staying in my room for the whole convention, sidling along with my back to the wall every time I went anywhere, or hiring spotters to walk behind me everywhere I went, this was not an avoidable situation. Kids run fast and do stupid stuff. This is why I advocate no-live-weapons at conventions, and why I’ve never worn a live weapon at a convention since, because it’s happened to me, and I’ve seen it happen to others.

    These are excuses. If you feel circumstance is what dictates your ability to control your possessions, you may do as you see fit. For myself, I hang around at places where guns and other weapons are everywhere. People who do not observe the safety rules are ejected, there is no fooling around and no second chances. Brandishing a weapon is not observing the safety rules. Boom, you’re out. Consequently, the number of accidents at gun shops and ranges throughout the gun crazy USA is extremely small.

    I believe that to be a better policy than blanket banning anything remotely weapon-ish.

    Per your comment “cops are dangerous; it’s not wise to provoke them”. Do you therefore advocate banning real or realistic firearms from conventions so as not to provoke cops? Or not? Your position here seems inconsistent; I assume I’m not understanding you properly.

    Clearly, and obviously, I am saying that banning live weapons and firearms from public places is:
    A) Pointless
    B) Dangerous
    C) Repressive

    I am also saying that this year it is realistic swords, next year it will be unrealistic swords like yours (“Honest your honor, it -looked- like a sword!” said the policeman at the inquest into your death at McDonalds in a hail of police gunfire), the year after that it will be green squirtguns and nail clippers, pen knives, and the year after that there’s no cosplay at all. Too dangerous. Masks, you know. Very bad, can’t have that.

    The end-point of the policy you propose is everybody gets frisked and if you have a pencil, they throw you in jail. Because somebody might lose an eye, you know.

    Previously I said in a comment Mr. Glyer deleted that for a SciFi blog, where people are familiar with the “If This Keeps Up” story arc, people here seem remarkably resistant to forecasting the results of trends. This trend has been seen before many times. It is the antithesis of both safety and freedom. Historically it does not end well for anyone.

  28. The Phantom Well Tasha, I’ve been ignoring your taunting for quite some time now. Seems like your apology of a couple months ago wasn’t worth much. Pity.

    ROTFL My apology included I’ll try harder at ignoring trolls? I didn’t promise you respect nor to never respond. But go ahead and do a dig at the apology as usual instead of addressing any points I make every time I comment on your foolish trolling words.

    If you are going to say things like my gun or my cane or suggest everyday weapons available to you I’m going to assume you intend to use those weapons. Be more careful with how you word comments if you don’t want to be misunderstood.

    Everyone in this discussion has personal knowledge on this topic much as you keep trying to pretend we are anti-weapon ignorants. Many are trained in self-defense, own weapons, our extended family owns weapons, have family in the military or as cops. Yes many of us think limits on who, where, and when make sense when it comes to weapons. To us that’s common sense based on real life experience. Talking to people like you reinforces reasons to put limits on weapons.

  29. Pencils really are deadly weapons. If you don’t think so, as an intellectual exercise go check out how far it is between your skin and your heart

    If you happen to be a vampire, and your assailant happens to be Buffy, the pencil may be a serious threat. Otherwise, I’m quite comfortable with just restricting the knives and big knifey things, seeing as knives actually do cause accidental and deliberate harm to people regularly.
    Pencils are mainly associated with injuries to small children. I would say, though I am not an expert in pencil-related injury, that it’s probably easier to get a pencil away from a small child without causing injury than a knife.
    Just think of peace-bonded weapons as the safety crayons of the con scene.

  30. @The Phantom: I 100% agree with you that if you get your weapon taken off you and it’s used accidentally or deliberately to cause harm, yeah, that shit is on you. This is why people shouldn’t be bringing un-peace-tied live weapons to conventions. Thank you for making that point.

  31. And Again, Phantom: What weapons policy do you want to see, since you feel the need to scorn one that everyone agrees is safe (And is very similar to the ones I first learned in the early 90s, not some drastic slide into new restrictive rules from same)?

    Since you say people who break safety rules at weapons heavy events are kicked out (presumably minor infractions get a warning first), you clearly believe safety rules in general are an acceptable practice. So why, other than vague “it could lead to…” fears, is this set of weapons policies inappropriate? Don’t talk about some possible future repression, talk about here and now.

  32. @The Phantom: “I am also saying that this year it is realistic swords, next year it will be unrealistic swords like yours (“Honest your honor, it -looked- like a sword!” said the policeman at the inquest into your death at McDonalds in a hail of police gunfire), the year after that it will be green squirtguns and nail clippers, pen knives, and the year after that there’s no cosplay at all. Too dangerous. Masks, you know. Very bad, can’t have that.”

    Hmm. Let’s codify that:

    X-1: Realistic weapons allowed.
    X: Realistic weapons banned.
    X+1: Unrealistic weapons banned.
    X+2: Nail clippers and pen knives banned.
    X+3: Cosplay dies.

    I was at a convention in 1997 that prohibited the carrying of live weapons, and only allowed the carry of play weapons when peace-bonded. Twenty years later, cosplay is thriving. Methinks there’s a flaw in your logic.

    Ultimately, here’s the real question. When a group of people gets together, who gets to determine the rules of the gathering – the people organizing the event, or some outside voice?

    Just as I would assume you don’t want the MAC II concom setting the rules for your local gun show, MAC II gets to set the rules for their event. If you don’t like their rules, you are free not to attend. You are even free to express why you are not attending, or to suggest changes that would make you feel happier about attending.

    You are not, however, free to dictate their rules. Their event, their rules. That’s how the freedom to assemble works.

    If you want to control MAC II’s policies, join their concom and persuade them to your point of view. Or start your own convention and impose whatever rules you like.

    One of the local cons in my area had some staff problems after the con chair made a decision they didn’t like. Thing is, he was right to insist that staff at his event obey the rules they had agreed to uphold, and the consequences of their failure to do so was the decision they objected to. (I also happen to think his decision was unwise, but they’d agreed to be bound by it. That “mutiny” is on them.) Both sides’ views have merit, but resolution does not come from defending your view and refusing to budge.

    Resolution happens when both sides give a little and work together to find a way forward. With the issue of costuming and weapons, the MAC II policy reflects the compromise I’ve seen at many conventions for decades. It works, it’s stable, and the “mission creep” you say will inevitably happen demonstrably has not happened.

    tl;dr: You’re wrong. History proves it. We’ve got the evidence.

    BTW, I also have a cane. A cheap aluminum one with a nifty grip that would let me use it as a nice shillelagh if I needed to defend myself… but I have it because it helps me walk more easily. I have never been asked to peace-bond it, but I am certain that if I misused it, I would face consequences. (Not to mention that using it that way would probably render it useless for its primary function. It is, after all, a cheap cane.)

  33. Lenora Rose on May 15, 2016 at 10:48 pm said: And Again, Phantom: What weapons policy do you want to see, since you feel the need to scorn one that everyone agrees is safe…

    What’s wrong with the policy at gun and knife shows? That policy is firearms to be carried unloaded, edged weapons sheathed. People are not required to run to the car after buying something.

    Point is, at gun and knife shows, a certain level of adult behavior is expected. Children are present at gun and knife shows, their parents are expected to keep them in line. And they do. Gun and knife shows are not known for bad behavior, accidents, or other misadventures.

    Are con-goers brain damaged, that they require such strictures be placed on them? I’m beginning to think that may be the case.

  34. Gun and knife shows are a very different situation from an SF convention in several respects:

    – Gun and knife shows do not have a significant percentage of safe-to-handle fake weapons around. At SF conventions, 90% of the weapons you see ARE fakes. This makes people occasionally treat 100% of weapons as fakes.
    – Gun and knife shows are attended by people who are accustomed to safety rules about guns and knives. Because almost everything about an SF convention except a few cosplays and a handful of dealers is NOT about guns and knives, you cannot expect the same percentage of people to be familiar with the rules.
    – ALSO because SF conventions are almost entirely not about weapons, people are not necessarily watching their behaviour or their children in the same manner they would be around a place devoted entirely and solely to guns and knives. (I watch my behaviour, and my son’s, differently on the archery range than I do at my friend’s house, where I watch it differently than I do at the grocery store, where I watch it differently than I do at the playground. Each poses different threats and requires different attention.)
    – Gun and knife shows do not have party suites with alcohol in them and inebriated people in the halls. I presume a ban on alcohol is ALSO a pretty standard safety feature at gun shows? Remove that, and think about what other rules you would have to tighten up.
    – Gun and knife shows probably don’t have as much close physical contact, ranging from bumping a stranger in the hall to hugging and backrubs (and here I’m not talking about harassment; my experience is that fans and fandom are mostly touch-friendly as long as you ask and/or respect the few who decline.)

  35. Right, Phantom. Nobody ever gets shot at gun shows.

    Oh Bob, there you go being unfair to Phantom and using actual facts against his bullshittery.

  36. @Rev Bob & @Lenora Rose
    All great points.

    @The Phantom
    Thank you for responding to the question asked. It was a nice change of pace and much appreciated.

  37. Also, note that even at gun shows, customers are often required to peace-tie their weapons, usually with a zip-tie, to make it incapable of firing. And in Dallas Texas, that noted anti-gun bastion, there’s a big gun show that prominently displays a 5 gallon water jug a third full of bullets taken at the door from “unloaded” guns. See photo 5 here: http://www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/photos/20140110-photos-inside-a-dallas-gun-show-with-powerful-rifles-antique-pistols-and-more.ece

    So even places where guns are required to be, like gun shows, have weapons policies about peace-tying and unloaded weapons, and even the “responsible” gun owners at those gun shows can be doofuses about making sure their weapons are actually, as required, unloaded.

    Gun shows are requiring unloading and peace-tying of guns. Next thing you know you won’t be able to carry a pencil in a gun show!

  38. @Cally Gun shows are requiring unloading and peace-tying of guns. Next thing you know you won’t be able to carry a pencil in a gun show!

    With a credit card and an iPad you can do all your transactions online. No need for pencils at gun shows. Thank goodness for technology, huh? 😉

  39. But without pencils, how are you supposed to defend yourself at the gun show?

  40. @Leslie C

    With one’s old lady cane. A chair, one’s fists, feet, books, the iPad, guns as blunt instruments all come to mind as possible weapons. I saw a number of guns strung over backs – the straps could be used to strangle someone. Ammunition boxes are pretty heavy when thrown.

    Before you know it gun conventions will require congoers to be handcuffed and legs hobbled. They’ve started down the slippery slope of having weapons policies. It’s all over.

  41. We have an old gentleman cane, but generally the old gentleman is using it. Might take a bit of a struggle to get it away from him, but at least he could provide a distraction by falling over. If I aim him right he might fall on the aggressor.
    I wonder what the policy is at the pencil show?

  42. Fascinating. Think I’ll take a break and watch “The Pencils of Navarone”, or maybe read “Old-Lady Canes, Germs and Steel”.

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