As we await the start of the business meeting, John Pomeranz is handing out WSFS Businss Meeting Bingo cards. Kevin Standlee is the free space. Players are instructed to fill in the rest of the blanks of frequent participants and when they have bingo, get recognized and include the word Bingo in their statement.
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That’s exactly the problem.
No data should be released until all Sasquan business is complete.
No data should be released until all Sasquan business is complete.
So we can have less informed Business Meeting voters in order to vindicate some esoteric principle?
The goal is to have the initial decision on EPH be as informed as possible. There is really not an advantage to WSFS in taking the votecon less information than is reasonably available.
rcade:
You kicked my ass before, kick it NOW!!! Show me the sunset language.
3.3.17: Additional Category. Not more than one special category may be created by the current Worldcon Committee with nomination and voting to be the same as for the permanent categories. The Worldcon Committee is not required to create any such category; such action by a Worldcon Committee should be under exceptional circumstances only; and the special category created by one Worldcon Committee shall not be binding on following Committees. Awards created under this paragraph shall be considered to be Hugo Awards.
Not prohibited from keeping a category and adding another. Maybe there’s language about one con’s rules evaporate, so the next con’s rules take over.
v
Viktor — the data release is at the discretion of the Hugo Administrators and final ballot totals ARE released immediately after the awards are distributed.
Sorry, but if the Hugo Administrators decide that releasing the nomination data is a good thing, that is THEIR call and you have NO authority to contradict them.
No Worldcon committee has any authority over ANY following Worldcon committee for any reason. The WSFS is the sole authority above the various concoms. And once a former Worldcon concom closes their financial books, it ceases to exist (unless they’re crazy enough to bid again, but that’s essentially a NEW entity).
There isn’t explicit sunset language. I guess someone could try to claim that once a special category was created the next convention could carry it over and thus had not “created” it, so it could create another, but I don’t think that interpretation would succeed.
Even if it did, for your scenario to become a problem would require successive conventions to all decide to carry over these special categories. Once one dropped a category, it would be gone.
Lori: Of course I have no authority. What?
Others:
I have been informed that, traditionally, the votes have been released after the ceremony. Ok. But if any previous WorldCon had a Sunday business meeting outstanding, then that data should have been held back. Finish the business that’s on the table.
Why? What is the rationale after the Hugo Awards have been announced for withholding that data until after the entire con has ended?
I said why.
Lori: does not answer the question of whether or not a following con could keep the previous con’s special category, yet add another.
I suspect that there’s language that dissolves this WC completely and allows the next WC a free reign.
We’re down in the weeds here. I had my ass handed to me on one point (but I kinda wriggled out, sorta), and I still think I’m right on another point.
Let’s watch the awards!
Can we agree that George Lazenby was the worst James Bond?
Viktor’s saying this because he doesn’t understand that the Hugo Administrators are NOT under the authority of the ConCom, they answer to WSFS, and that the Business Meeting is WSFS meeting NOT a ConCom meeting.
He doesn’t realize that there are two organizations operating here, he thinks they’re one and the same.
Viktor, I’ve been in Fandom for more than forty years, and I’ve worked for Worldcons and been part of several Worldcon Bid Committees.
WSFS runs the Business Meeting and the Hugo Administrators are responsible to them not whoever the current concom maybe. Sasquan is responsible for furnishing the bases for the Hugos and holding the Award Ceremony — no more, and no less.
He said, obfuscating….
From Standlee:
The rule says that the information shall be released “within ninety (90) days after the Worldcon.” When the results are released tonight after the Hugo Awards Ceremony (as they historically have been done), the will have been released -1 days after the Worldcon. -1 is less than 90. Therefore, the release of the information does not violate the WSFS constitution. There is nothing in the WSFS constitution that requires that the information be issued after the Worldcon ends. It only sets a final date by which time the results must be released.
I hope this clarifies the matter.
Kevin Standlee
Hugo Awards Marketing Committee
That’s backwards. The Hugos for the year are under the sole control of the year’s committee. That is why the request to release the stats has to be a resolution, which is a request by WSFS not an order.
Mike, I was under the impression that the Hugo Administrators were independent of the ConCom…if not, I stand corrected. (Or sit, as the case may be.)
I remember the work the EPH people put in trying to frame the proposal to request the data, and I must have gotten turned around then.
Lori: The Hugo administrator and staff are administratively an indpendent subcommittee of the committe, The committee is vested with authority for the year’s Hugos under the constitution. The subcommittee arrangement allows the rest of the committee to keep its Hugo eligibility without a conflict of interest under the rules.
So I asked Standlee if it were ok for Sasquan to release the nom data -89 days.
He’s fine with -1.
He runs a helluva meeting, though. Fricking awesome. He’s a boss.
About the YA Hugo:
There are good reasons for and against both a Hugo and a Not-a-Hugo. I can detail them, or I’ll note that the committee is accepting new members (and I think any member of WSFS can join, not just voting members), and I’d be happy to pass along contact info for the chair.
Viktor on August 22, 2015 at 7:46 pm said:
Sure they could [release the nominating statistics 89 days before the convention ended]. It would be stupid, but it wouldn’t be prohibited by the rules.