Saturday Sasquan Business Meeting

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JJ: I am on the front left near the EPH guys this morning.

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171 thoughts on “Saturday Sasquan Business Meeting”

  1. Thomas Monaghan’s move to kill all further business was uncool.

    He would make the obstructionists in Congress proud.

  3. That seems a sad and desperate move. If they had the votes to shut the meeting down, they’d have the votes to defeat EPH.

  4. So… is this the founder of Domino’s pizza, or someone else?

    I’m guessing else.

    I’ve been searching online and finding little.

    There’s a Thomas Monaghan in Eric Flint’s comments who was upset about “If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love.”

    On another blog he comments unfavorably on how little Baen gets nominated.

    I can’t direct link the comment, but he comments on Correia’s blog when he was rationalizing Sad Puppies 2 last year.

    A Baen barfly, maybe?

  10. So someone just shut down discussion on EPH for the rest of this Worldcon? I’ll go a bit further and say ‘dick move.’ =P

  13. Looks like I was right to both (a) suspect that the Business Meeting would be infested with at least one Pup tryna shut down EPH by any (parliamentary) means necessary, and (b) hope that Kevin Standlee would deal with the Puppy maneuvers appropriately.

  14. @Chris Gerrib: I’ll just add for the benefit of those not attending in-person that Monaghan’s motion to adjourn sine die (ending all Business Meeting activity for the year and killing all pending business) was respectfully accepted and seconded, but….:

    Before it could be subject to a majority vote, where I predict it would have been voted down by a tremendous margin even by tired and hungry attendees, Chair Kevin Standlee was reminded by one of the other administrators that EPH had been scheduled for Sunday during the previous day’s session in a fashion that made it a General Order within the meaning of that term in Standing Rule 5.7. Thus a motion to adjourn sine die will remain out of order until that pending business has been discharged.

    (Coming in and attempting to hustle the Business Meeting seldom works because we’re past masters at hustling ourselves.)

  15. Congrats to Helsinki, and I’m jazzed to see Walter Jon Williams get a GoH spot. He’s a sadly underrated author.

  16. I’m pretty sure that the Business Meeting attendees would not permit the process of consideration of EPH to be so transparently manipulated. But the Pups often have a very different impression of their numbers than I do, so perhaps Mr. Monaghan thought he could swing it.

  18. @Rick Moen and Cat – I’m sure the attendees would have killed Monahan’s motion if not him.

    On Cat’s notion – there were SO many parliamentary shenanigans tried that collectively had a snowball’s chance of passing that I’m not sure “overestimating numbers” is a Puppy think.

  20. The outrage du jour from Sarah Hoyt is over some ribbons removed from a freebie table at Sasquan for review by the con.

    It contains the following ingredients:

    Grandiosity: “[T]his is important because it’s no longer fannish politics. … [T]his is not a fannish fight. This is a fight for the cultural soul of the west …”

    Self-admiration: “Me, I’d like to identify as not bowing down to the SJWs, right now, because, you know, congenital stiffness of the back. I get it from my science fiction daddy.”

    Paranoia: “Science fiction is a beach head that the entertainment-industrial LEFT, of Course, had taken, and they’re calling all their organs, no mater how remote to come and defend it, with impeccable coordination.”

    Allergy warning: Dish prepared by nuts

  21. I don’t think pulling the ribbons constitutes a fight for the cultural soul of the West. I do think pulling the ribbons was stupid.

  22. I’m pretty sure that the Business Meeting attendees would not permit the process of consideration of EPH to be so transparently manipulated. But the Pups often have a very different impression of their numbers than I do, so perhaps Mr. Monaghan thought he could swing it.

    The Pups, like GamerGate, and pretty much every other reactionary fringe movement, has deluded itself into thinking that they are merely the voice of the people, and that if only someone were to stand up boldly, the oppressed silent majority would rally to their cause. These movements are inevitably completely wrong on this point, but that doesn’t stop them from indulging in the delusion.

  23. I do think pulling the ribbons was stupid.

    I’m assuming they were put back on the freebies table by the con, because neither one seems offensive.

    They’re also kind of blah. That’s the best Puppies could do on a ribbon?

  24. The outrage du jour from Sarah Hoyt is over some ribbons removed from a freebie table at Sasquan for review by the con.

    She claims it is theft. I think she has a problem with reality. The freebie table is a service provided by the con. If they don’t want the image they project with the services they provide to include “stupid Puppy bullshit”, that’s their right. Neither Hoyt nor Captain Comic have the right to complain that they aren’t given a platform by someone else.

    In addition, how is taking something that is a “freebie” theft?

  25. @Chris Gerrib et al: Thanks for that. I’m glad that didn’t happen.

    I’ve seen my share of badge ribbons that are sorta borderline in taste, some that were pushing it, and some that were clearly over the line. ‘Ask not for whom the puppies bay’ is… ehn, it’s vaguely, remotely, distantly offensive (‘Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee,’ is a kind of literary death threat) but less threatening and more snerk-inducing. (Though those who have had actual death threats from Puppies, if any, may think differently.) The ‘Strawman Larry’ one just makes me roll my eyes. ‘Removed for review’ means just that the con committee wanted to discuss this before saying yay or nay, if anyone would feel threatened by the first one or experience acute ocular rotational stress (over-rolling of the eyes =) ) by the second (more seriously, just to make sure it’s not some hidden personal attack on someone, which for all I know, it may be.)

    All that being said, it still amazes me that in this day and age of the Internet that someone can be so blind as to how Tim Beale and the Rabid Puppies think of their entire gender, that they’d willingly throw their lot in with that regressive pack of fools.

  26. Thomas Monaghan is indeed a Baen Barfly in long standing, and probably further to the right than 95% percent of that highly conservative population.

  28. … by the second (more seriously, just to make sure it’s not some hidden personal attack on someone, which for all I know, it may be.)

    I assumed Strawman Larry is a Correia gag, seeing as how he’s unfairly demonized all the time by those CHORFy SJWs.

  29. Now I’m in the room for the panel on “Writing About Controversy,” including our gracious host Mike Glyer, moderator William Frank, Laura Mixon, Eric Flint, and John Scalzi. I’ve been looking forward to this one.

  30. @Laertes:

    Thanks for linking that. That’s a firestorm of charisma, right there.

  31. Did they send their most capable guy? Because he didn’t seem prepared.

    I think the Pups have a very shallow pool of talent from which to pull.

  32. When he said “some of the resolutions in the future are rushed and un-organized and it would just extend indefinitely from what I’ve heard and what I think will happen” I found myself nodding in agreement, bewitched by the sheer force of his personality. I had to take a cold shower to clear my head.

  33. I don’t think I’d agree with Monaghan on much of anything, but he appeared to have a speech impediment and some social anxiety, guys.

  34. I’m also in the audience for the Writing About Controversy panel. Scalzi is wearing a button that says “CABAL”.

  35. Jim Henley on August 22, 2015 at 3:12 pm said:

    I don’t think I’d agree with Monaghan on much of anything, but he appeared to have a speech impediment and some social anxiety, guys.

    Just watched it and I agree. I can imagine it would be terrifying particularly if you knew you were speaking from a deeply unpopular position. Additionally he was polite and following the rules in good(ish) faith from what I could see.

  37. I can imagine it would be terrifying particularly if you knew you were speaking from a deeply unpopular position.

    I wouldn’t assume he knew that, since he was presumably thinking it possible his motion might win.

    I don’t knock his performance, just his goal. EPH deserves a vote, both because of how avoiding a vote would reflect on Worldcon and because of the amount of work that went into its creation. I’m glad Monaghan didn’t prevail.

  38. @Aaron: “I think the Pups have a very shallow pool of talent from which to pull.”

    Well, they do say the cream rises to the top. But then again, so does scum. One must be careful to discern the difference.

  40. After being quiet for most of Sasquan, the Puppies are starting to wake up on Twitter for tonight’s every-condition-is-a-victory celebration.

    Tweet: “Also rooting for #RabidPuppies slate pick Cixin Liu for best novel, despite my disdain for Day, just to see some heads explode. #hugoawards.”

    Calling Three-Body Problem a Rabid pick when it wasn’t on Rabid’s slate is some high-quality spin.

  41. Calling Three-Body Problem a Rabid pick when it wasn’t on Rabid’s slate is some high-quality spin.

    It goes with the conservative penchant for rewriting history to make themselves look better.

  42. Calling Three-Body Problem a Rabid pick when it wasn’t on Rabid’s slate is some high-quality spin.

    Especially given that it was originally kept off of the ballot by Puppy slating, and only made it to the ballot due to Kloos being an honorable man.

  43. The panel was very good. Excellent moderation and the panelists all had thoughtful and interesting things to say.

  44. After being quiet for most of Sasquan, the Puppies are starting to wake up on Twitter for tonight’s every-condition-is-a-victory celebration.

    Checking their hashtags, they seem to be taking something of a premature victory lap. I suspect they should prepare for disappointment.

  46. Update on the ribbons, the mysterious Captain Comic has contacted the con-runners who have asked him to stop putting them out, as people are picking them up and returning them to the con.

    It seems like he has agreed to do so, and the ribbons that have been turned in will be returned to him.

    http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/08/22/so-tired-of-the-bull-excreta/

    Personally I think the ribbons should be allowed and people who don’t want them can pass them by but I understand the con-runners not wanting more headaches to deal with right now.

  47. Update on the ribbons, the mysterious Captain Comic has contacted the con-runners who have asked him to stop putting them out, as people are picking them up and returning them to the con.

    Given that they are freebies, I’m surprised that people didn’t simply start picking them up and pitching them.

  48. Personally I think the ribbons should be allowed

    Agreed. As one commenter said, it’s better for everyone if people self-identify. Then others can avoid them if they want. The ribbons didn’t appear terribly offensive, just eye-rollingly stupid. And there’s lots of eye-rollingly stupid ribbons around that aren’t puppy-related.

  49. @aaron
    They seem nicely made, I think people are being respectful as they obviously cost money to produce.

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