Immediately after Jim Baen died in 2006, his friends’ wide-ranging discussions about their great respect and affection for him as a person, and regard for his accomplishments as an editor, woke Francis Turner to the realization fandom would have only one more chance to vote him the Best Editor Hugo
Baen had revitalized Galaxy in the 1970s with works from many top writers (most of John Varley’s great early stories were published in Baen’s Galaxy). He ran Ace’s sf book line under publisher Tom Doherty, and later did the same at TOR Books, before starting his own company, Baen Books. Prior to his death he’d received seven Hugo nominations, but the last had been in 1981 and he had never won the award.
Francis Turner wrote a blog post on L’Ombre de l’Olivier in August 2006 encouraging people not only to vote Baen the Best Editor (Long Form) Hugo the following year — but to visualize “A Baen Sweep of the Hugos”.
Turner listed three goals:
- Get Jim Baen nominated and voted for Editor (books) for 2006 [i.e., the eligibility year for the 2007 Hugos]
- Increase the participation in the Hugo process
- Get some Baen works on the ballots
Turner’s first stop in the get-out-the-vote campaign was going to be Baen’s Bar.
As noted at Toni’s Table, the electorate for Hugo awards (and the Campbell award) is almost as small and fluid as that of a “Rotten Burough”. Also noted there is that Baen hasn’t won many such awards recently despite Baen being the #2 or #3 (depending on how you count/who is counting) speculative fiction (SF) publisher. This totally unaffiliated page is therefore set up so that loyal Baen Barflies can do a little consensus building and nominate appropriately with the goal of seeing Jim Baen nominated as editor and ideally also seeing a Baen author/artist win some other category of the 2007 Hugo awards.
Some of Turner’s other arguments have proven equally evergreen:
The participation of the wider SF community in the Hugo awards is declining….
To be honest I find it sad that even 5 years ago less than 1000 people could be bothered to vote for the awards that are supposed to represent all of SF-fandom. The fact that these numbers have now dwindled to two thirds of that in 2006 is even more tragic. What I think is also sad is that I, personally, had only read one 2006 Novel nominee – Scalzi’s “Old Man’s War” – and that a number of books that I thought were great did not appear. Most of the books I liked were published by Baen (but not all were) and it was notable that none of the 5 most nominated works were published by Baen…
This is an attempt to mobilise the large number of loyal Baen readers to nominate and vote so that their point of view is recognised within the SF world. I believe both the awards and SF as a whole would benefit from the Hugos not being seen as a high-brow cliquey award…. I hope to do this by convincing a number of loyal Baen readers (aka Barflies) to register as attendees for Worldcon 2007 or as voting associates and, having done so, to nominate Jim Baen for the editor award and to nominate some Baen works/authors/artists for the other awards.
Well aware of the objections that would be raised in other quarters, Turner preemptively insisted —
There is NO intention to produce a Baen “slate” and to insist (as if it were possible) that Barflies nominate and vote for the “slate”.
And another entire section tried to deflect “Potential Controversy.” There, Turner offered such reassurances as —
Secondly despite the title, I neither want nor expect a sweep of all the awards – not in 2007 at least 🙂 .
Surprisingly, considering how well Correia and Torgersen did with the same arguments later on, Turner’s appeal failed to generate the faintest support.
Yes, Jim Baen was nominated for Best Editor. However, that was accomplished with just 30 votes and there’s no sign they were the product of any concerted effort. Because if you look at the Best Novel category in the 2007 Hugo Award nominating statistics you’ll find zero Baen novels among the top 27 books receiving votes — and it took only four votes to be listed in the report.
Two other Baen Editors, Toni Weisskopf and Jim Minz, each received seven votes.
Although Mike Resnick’s novelette “All the Things You Are” (Jim Baen’s Universe October 2006) was a Hugo finalist, nobody has had more fiction nominated for the Hugo than Resnick. He achieved that result without any dependence on Turner’s efforts.
But reading Turner’s 10-year-old post certainly produces a stunning sense of déjà-vu.
[Thanks to Mark-kitteh for the story.]
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Nothing new under the sun indeed. I wonder whether this was one of the “hidden previous slates” Torgersen/ Correia/ et al were so intent on the last couple of years.
I wonder whether one reason why Mr. Turner’s effort fizzled, in comparison to the Puppy campaigns several years later, might be precisely because Mr. Turner didn’t make any attempt to gin up outrage or resentment using culture-war rhetoric. Alas, anger seems to be much stronger than admiration or affection, when it comes to motivating people on the Internet.
It’s also true that social media didn’t have quite the same level of prevalence back then. Although I would have thought that Baen’s Bar would have been a good mustering point for people to compare notes and encourage one another.
@Jon F. Zeigler – I was thinking the same thing. I also think a lot of new voters and nominators that the Puppies find undesirable wouldn’t have joined the WSFS last year and, presumably, this year, if the SP campaign’s tone had remained as civil as Turner’s post.
Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if resentment over this campaign fueled (in part) the Puppy campaigns. A sort of mentality that if they wouldn’t honor Jim Baen, then there must be some sort of rot in the structure of things that could only be corrected through extremism. It would explain Torgersen’s comments about “Everyone knew about this flaw, but we were the people to expose it”.
Doubling down on failure. Must. Fail. HARDER!
Hmmm, so here we have proof that there was a secret cabal in the past! Just not the one the Pups think.
Baen’s actually won several Hugos since then. Of course, they’re all engraved “Lois McMaster Bujold”.
Jim Baen revolutionized e-publishing. The monthly collections Baen sells prior to print publication provides more money directly to authors than traditional publication methods.
Jim Baen also was responsible for a lot more SF/F being available to the public.
But the Hugo Clique either did not realize, or decide to honor these accomplishments for the overall field of SF/F publishing.
Of course, Mr. Glyer will take any opportunity to pick at any scab – even one ten years old.
2007. That was the year the World Science Fiction Convention was in Japan, wasn’t it?
I wonder what effect that might have had on the nominations and the vote.
Jim Baen revolutionized e-publishing.
What Hugo category would you say this accomplishment would fit into?
Very interesting. I wonder how many people were aware of this, and whether it influenced anyone involved in more recent events.
@airboy
But if there were a clique, then how did SP3 succeed in sweeping the nominations last year?
@Jon F. Zeigler
Possibly. I think it’s also due to the fact that it was kept limited to the Baen Barflies, and thus kept mostly to a bunch of fellow travellers, or to people who had grown inured to the behaviour around them. The Pups needed to bolster their numbers, so started going into less closed forums to gin up support.
@airboy – Hi! Haven’t seen you in a dog’s age. Read any good books lately? Got recommendations?
I think that the increased hothouse nature of social media also made that effort premature. If Jim had died a few years later, I think the effort would have been more fruitful, even without a full on Culture War.
Apart from stating that the Hugos are
it seems like a great campaign. The goals seem modest and the campaign done out of genuine love for Jim Baen (who was apparently a wonderful person) and some Baen works. Perhaps most importantly, it was not really intended to sweep the Hugos–recognizing different people have different tastes–and was nothing like a slate.
If Correria copied him, that’s too bad because this seems fairly commendable imo.
I was trying to write something earlier regarding the difference between slates and campaigns and the ethics of both and now I have to rethink what I wrote.
I don’t think we’ll ever see a response to this, because there is no response to it — at least, not one which calls all Worldcon supporting members a “clique.” Until, one presumes, SP3. Except of course then the clique reasserted itself to force the “No Award” process, even though it didn’t have the power to simply dismiss SP3’s effects.
It’s fascinating that the anti-fan, SJW clique is now alleged to go back to 2006, though, presumably so they could promote all those “diversity hire” authors one can see in the winners and finalists that year (and guarantee that the winning novel that year was from Tor, of course).
oh…and Patrick Nielsen Hayden ends up winning Best Editor Long From 2007…didn’t make that connection to more recent rhetoric immediately.
Jim Baen racked up a reasonably impressive stack of Hugo nominations: 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, and 1981, all for Best Editor. Coincidentally, that pretty much represents the period in which he was editor of Galaxy and then Destinies. Far Futures, New Destinies and his work at Tor and Baen didn’t attract nominations, except as an afterthought once he died.
My suggestion in 2007 was a memorial anthology along the lines of the one Campbell got, and/or awards named after Baen, again in the manner of Campbell.
@airboy: The monthly collections Baen sells prior to print publication provides more money directly to authors than traditional publication methods.
Jim Baen also was responsible for a lot more SF/F being available to the public.
Both excellent things.
However, neither exactly fits any of the existing Hugo Awards in any way that I can see. Those categories focus on the *works* created not the methods by which those works are brought to the public. (The “editing” categories which shift the focus to a person have been a problem for many voters because it’s hard to get evidence of what said people actually DO.)
Now, it might be possible to argue there should be some sort of “publishing service to the sff community” awarded. One might even be able to present a proposal to the WSFS (they do allow for that sort of input, as I’m sure Kevin Standlee will be happy to explain if necessary), or even to some other organization (heck, maybe SWFA would like to honor publishers, though now I think about it, that might work too well).
But complaining about never giving a Hugo in a non-existent category?
Doesn’t seem very logical to me.
(ha, ninjaed by Aaron)
Historical question: how many votes would it have taken for Baen to get a Best Editor nod 1981-2006?
This is like one of those all-the-myths-are-true SF plots, in which it is discovered that after some centuries of elaboration the underlying story was true but somewhat distorted.
While the SP campaigns have been ominspecious* the 2006 blogpost has many of the same statements but with more factual basis.
e.g. 2006/207 was a low point in participation so the ‘decline’ rhetoric has some basis in fact. Numbers picked up in 08, down a bit in 09 and then steadily increased (note *prior* to the Puppies). So the later Puppy version of ‘decline’ is factually false but based on a truism established in facts from another time.
The lack of Baen nominations in general is a not unreasonable grounds for complaint (without saying what the cause may be etc) but that transforms into a more vague complaint about *conservatives* not being nominated when the story mutates into its Sad Puppy form.
The actual voting. On 1st preferences Jim Baen got 109 1st preference votes, more than any of the other nominees but then the preferences kick in and Baen is beaten by PNH 158 to 156. Worse, once the preferences are redistributed for the Second Place position, Baen loses again, eventually coming *third* over all. That is the way the cookie can crumble with alternative-vote but it isn’t a shiningly brilliant example of its wonders as a voting system. I can see how that could evolve into a notion that it is overly complex and capricious etc – particularly for people with strong emotional investment in Baen winning.
*[this is a word]
James Davis Nicoll: While I don’t have time to do your full homework assignment 🙂 the answer is — a few hundred. For example, in 1991 Gardner Dozois won with 410 votes. In 2006, David G. Hartwell won with 222.
Is “omnispecious” related to “nomnispecious”, i.e. food that looks substantial but doesn’t actually fill you up?
It is now by the magic orb of neologism.
Yes, but unless Baen had works good enough to win in the field of the given year*, the effort would stall at the finals stage. My assessment is that Hugo voters are an honest bunch, and while sentiment can be a factor, it’s not the determining one. Otherwise “Wheel of Time” would have placed higher. I don’t think that anyone disagrees with the statement that Robert Jordan “Wheel of Time” series was a genre-changer.
Jim Baen should be (and is) honoured & acknowledged for his career, but I think it’s more for his lifetime achievements rather than a specific work that is Hugo eligible in a given year.
*On more than one occasion I’ve been surprised that a given book hadn’t won , but that surprise usually goes away when I check out the other finalists. Some years the competition is very tough. For example, 1993 looked to have been a very good year. How do you choose between:
– A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge
– Doomsday Book by Connie Willis
– Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson
– China Mountain Zhang by Maureen F. McHugh
– Steel Beach by John Varley
I daresay Baen books don’t get much distribution in Japan. The country where the con was held, and from which most of the voters would have come. They won’t vote for someone they’ve never heard of.
Jim did a lot of good things, but his greatest achievements don’t fit into Hugo categories. When those things get added to the Hugos, he can get a retro-Hugo for them. It’ll just take a number of determined people willing to do a lot of hard work for no credit, and two WSFS Business Meetings. That’s how we got Fancast, the short/long split in Dramatic Presentation, and almost all the categories.
Mike, I don’t mean how many to win but how many just to get on the ballot.
A little googling says:
2006: 60
2005: 72
2004: 82
2003: 105
2002: 88
2001: 62
Not sure what the numbers were before 2001.
In fact, I can go further and say the data shows that in 2006, Baen got fewer than 12 votes, in 2005 fewer than 12, in 2004 fewer than 8, in 2003 fewer than 18, in 2002 fewer than 14 and in 2001 he got fewer than 11.
lurkertype on January 6, 2016 at 6:45 pm said:
In 2007 most members eligible to vote came from the United States (1,907) followed by Japan (1,694). We’ve no idea who actually voted but it’s not automatic that the most voters were from Japan.
Given the distinct lack of Japanese works even on the long list, I wonder how many local fans nominated.
airboy on January 6, 2016 at 4:56 pm said:
Jim Baen revolutionized e-publishing. The monthly collections Baen sells prior to print publication provides more money directly to authors than traditional publication methods.
Jim Baen also was responsible for a lot more SF/F being available to the public.
But the Hugo Clique either did not realize, or decide to honor these accomplishments for the overall field of SF/F publishing.
While Jim Baen may not have won a Hugo, he did receive a unique honor: Worldcon Guest of Honor in 2000. Which is essentially a Life Achievement honor.
@Lurkertype
As Ultragotha notes, the majority of voters were listed as USAians, but that’s by self-declaration and billing address, surely? No way to know whether that reflects whether the voters were physically in Japan or not as far as I know. I think you can reasonably assume those listed as “Japan” were, but that said:
Actually, back in the early 2000s I seem to remember Baen was quite well represented at the Shinjuku Kinokuniya central location, considering the number of titles they were publishing at the time. That said, the foreign language SFF racks were small compared to the size of the store, and I doubt there was a bigger selection of new books anywhere else. That said, it often takes some time for books to reach us in Japan, so the selection of books actually eligible for the next round of Hugos is likely to be slight at a B&M bookstore.
Like me, most people probably rely on Amazon (and used book stores – most of the best of which seem to have disappeared) where by sheer volume of titles I would think other publishers have the advantage of visibility. And of course you’d have to be specifically looking for recent titles. And given the painful limitations of Amazon as a place to discover new things, you’d probably also have to be looking for something you already knew about.
Actually, in retrospect it’s really quite surprising there were that many Japan-side eligible voters…
–Smade
Although people have tried (as with Baen), and perhaps succeeded, at using Best Editor as a lifetime achievement award, that’s not what it is. Also, it is an honor to be nimated – and Baen was, plenty of times. Anyway, as @Michael J. Walsh says above – Worldcon GoH is essentially the Worldcon lifetime achievement award, and Bae got that. IMHO a bigger deal than being voted Best Editor. But try getting that across to a couple of grumpy Puppies upthread. (eyeroll)
@Soon Lee: Funny – A Fire Upon the Deep and China Mountain Zhang from that list got onto my list of books to probably get within the past 6 months, probably, though I’d heard of them (especially Zhang) long ago. 😉 I enjoyed Doomsday Book back in the day. My mom gave me one or two of Robinson’s “Mars” trilogy when they came out (she loves to give me recent SFF books), though I haven’t read them.
So the only 1993 Best Novel nominee not really on my RADAR is Steel Beach, though methinks I’ve heard of it. My first Worldcon was in 1999, though I’m not sure when I really became Hugo-savvy (i.e., started voting; later than 1999, of course). So yeah, 1993 was a very good year, if I had, have, or plan to get most of those books, not even being “into” the Hugos back then!
BTW I meant to preface my ramblings by saying wow, campaigns are not new! 😉 But not a slate, and more classy – though I’d’ve been against it (see above re. “not a lifetime achievement award”). I do vaguely remember when Baen passed away, hearing talk about trying to “get him a Hugo.”
Camestros sadi: “The lack of Baen nominations in general is a not unreasonable grounds for complaint (without saying what the cause may be etc) but that transforms into a more vague complaint about *conservatives* not being nominated when the story mutates into its Sad Puppy form.”
That’s how the leaders paint it and the puppies just fall in line. It started with Correia.
What Larry did was just packaging. He is doing for SF what Limbaugh did for radio. He found a target market, did some rabble rousing, invited in others like Vox Day and used it to target market books and coins. It is how he started – marketing his gun porn horror novels to his buddies on gun websites. Ask him. He will tell you.
This is what passes for marketing with sub-par writers and publishers. All the other stuff is just window dressing.
Correia is probably the most successful of the SP/RP leader/writers. Pups exclaim on BTs website that he is a New York Times bestseller.
Someone at BT’s site asked me if I had read pup writers, and I told him yes. I had read Correia among others. I commented that MHI was OK gun porn but nothing special. Then pups assumed I had only read book 1 in the series. I have in fact read 2 books in the series and the second one is worse than the first. The first is OK gun porn. The second is more tedious.
By way of comparison, I am reading a similar novel by Joe Hill – NOS4A2. This novel is also a NYT bestseller and never considered for a Hugo. It deals with much the same kind of world as MHI. Hills universe however is richer. His characters are much better developed. The conflict is more suspenseful. And the fantasy world more compelling. If you compare Correia to Joe Hill there simply is no comparison. Correia is not even close. But nobody is pissing and moaning that Joe Hill isn’t getting proper respect because…. whatever.
Here’s the problem with the pups – they got bark but their books have no bite.
BTW- just heard ABC is developing NOS4A2 for a mini series. The book has bite.
Joe Hill’s been nominated for Stoker Awards a bunch of times and won a couple, along with British Fantasy Awards and such. He’s fully recognized in the field he calls home.
Isn’t NOS4A2 more horror while MHI is more urban fantasy? There was a very nice definition quoted on Mad Genius Club the other day:
Btw, this is one of the reasons why I’ve tired a bit of Urban Fantasy. I preferred when the monsters were scarier and protagonists were a bit more scared. Not these standard competent detectives and what not that always just accepts what is coming for them.
BTW, thank me for reminding me I ought to buy it.
@Kendall,
The “let’s get [NAME] a Hugo because they’ve just died and this will be their last chance” campaigns make me uncomfortable. It didn’t feel right when Jim Baen died, it didn’t feel right when Robert Jordan died, it doesn’t feel right with Terry Pratchett either, and I’m a big fan of his.
If “The Shepherd’s Crown” is good enough to get there on its own merit then fine, but don’t play the death card. I’m currently ~50 pages into “The Shepherd’s Crown” and while I’m liking it a lot, it is a bitter-sweet reading experience.
@Hampus, thanks for the definition. I am reminded of lyrics from Billy Joel…
“Hot funk, cool punk, even if it’s old junk, It’s still rock and roll to me”
When Goodreads listed Monster Hunter Nemesis for the 2014 Goodreads choice awards, it was shelved as Horror. Monster Hunter Nemesis finished in the 10th spot. I thought the types of stories were close enough to warrant comparison.
Your definition is good for showing the distinction. It is the distinction of say Buffy to traditional horror films. Certainly for the protagonist in NOS4A2 there is a bit of “freak out” there is also a bit of kick ass in Victoria McQueen. I see your point though.
@Bruce, I have not paid attention to the Stroker Awards. Thanks for the info.
Curiously enough, I could have made the comparison to Joe’s dad. Correia did just that writing a blog titled… “How to get Correia nominated for a Hugo, PART 4: Ten ways I’m different than Stephen King, and thus deserve a Hugo nomination”.
@Zenu
Esh, he really is an asshole, isn’t he?
Zenu:
From Correias blog:
And there we have plain and clear. King is writing horror books. Horror books are about being scared, not about having a hero that can defeat everything, is powerful and strong. Correia is writing Urban Fantasy with orcs, elves and monsters. Where the goal is something totally different.
@Hampus:
One might even say that Larry thrusts his fists against the (blog) posts and still insists he sees the ghosts (of SJW cabals), eh?
(Yes, I just compared him to the leader of the Losers. Go figure.)
Hampus, I thought about that after I read your definition.
I followed your link and enjoyed the article. I wish there had been more comments though.
Now I don’t agree with Correia that all King’s heroes are helpless victims. I would bet money on Roland Deschain to prevail over Owen Pitt (from MHI) in the hypothetical arena. There are others – Jack Sawyer, Stu Redman, The Losers Club…
And really in NOS4A2, one has to wonder which side is demonstrating competence. You tell me after you read it.
That aside, I think your point is a really good point. There is a certain flippancy to an urban fantasy hero. Certainly the case with Harry Dresden. Even with horrible monsters and even when the vampires kidnap his kid, one isn’t unsettled by the horror. That’s the point.
A Hugo nominee ‘earned’ its place on the list of nominees with 4 votes. That speaks volumes about the low estate of the WSFS and Hugo. Nobody cared. After the kerfuffle I think even fewer people will care.
It’s worth watching to see the rats gnawing the bones and shaking their heads in disbelief that any should challenge them for the prize.
Joe Hill’s also been nominated twice for a Hugo for his graphic novels, “Locke and Key”. And I met his dad at a Worldcon when Joe was but a young’un.
1993 was a TOUGH decision. I don’t know how many times I rearranged my ballot ordering. Must admit I didn’t get to “China Mountain Zhang” (we didn’t have packets back then, we had to buy own our dead-tree volumes!), but I vividly remember thinking I’d just read a little bit of “Steel Beach” when I went to bed… and the next thing I know, I was all teary-eyed at the end and the sun was up.
I do like the title, Mike.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that Jim Baen was well-liked and respected by the community, and that’s what motivated Baen fans to put this together.
A quick count suggests that Jim Baen was one of only 6 editors who were nominated for purely longform work during the combined “Best Professional Editor” era (none of who ever won), whereas I lost count on the individual magazine or anthology editors at 20. I think that were it not for his passing he could well have been honoured still further by the new Best Editor Long Form category.
It’s like watching primordial Puppies swimming in the ooze. Sort of calming compared to the yappier, snappier, piddle-on-everything land critters.
The McDonald Corporation revolutionized the restaurant business, yet none of the Michelin Guide Clique voted them best restaurant!
INJUSTICE ROBBLE ROBLE RONALD WAS ROBBED!
(Also, the protagonist of Dumas Key is a deeply heroic character. And the protagonist of Lisey’s Story is even more so. King can write heroism better than Tolkien, because King can write characters with real depth, flaws, and the ability to get past fear.)
I preferred Locke & Key to NOS4A2 (or NOS4R2 in non-USland)
(or NOS4R2D2 in a galaxy far, far away)
Edit: Holy hyperdrives, I did not know Google did that when you type in “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.
Companies, institutions have character and history, culture and tradition. I wonder what is operating in the ‘Baen’ culture that has given rise to this kind of thinking not once, but at least twice, apparently, in the past ten years.
that’s time frame is interesting also as puppies have frequently stated that the culture war for the Hugos have been going on for a decade.
Considering that in 2006 TNH won over ‘Baen’s last chance’, and the ginormous focus on the NHs and TOR by puppies, suggests to me that this is the real smoking gun.
Equally interesting is that the “new puppies” don’t seem to have added or created any new arguments in a decade and seemingly can’t be bothered to update the old ones.
With all that said, Jim Baen made enormous contributions to the field and is deserving of accolades and recognition. One wonders, given that history of success and contribution, how different the culture at Baen Books would be now had he lived longer.
COOL! o.O