68 thoughts on “Worldcon 75 Publishes Member List, Issues Clarification About Public vs. Private Names”

1. I see that they have now added clarifying text under those fields on the personal data form; it’s too bad that was not done originally.

2. No badge name? There are people I’ve been hanging with at Worldcon for decades who I don’t know their wallet name.

   I see PNH but not TNH right now.

3. I was confused not to see my name, but it is there – only my first name. I forget; maybe I, too, thought those fields were for badge names. So will they be printing badges when people register on site, or will the badges be blank and pens provided, or will they just pre-print badges with real names? I’m confused.

   @lurkertype: Heh, never heard the term “wallet name,” but I like it.

4. Is this a checkbox I see before me? Did I not check it?!

5. (Looks at list of names.)

   (Hopes, oh so fervently hopes, that The Emperor Penguin actually is an Emperor Penguin.)

6. I understand that the plan is to have a badge name field before the con. I’m not sure why that wasn’t done originally – limitations on Developer time, I expect. So check back in to the same login before travelling, and with luck it will have been added.

7. I just had to fix mine and add a public name. To be honest, I do not remember this being on the form when I upgraded after site selection in Spokane.

   OTOH, despite having upgraded at Spokane, my form either got lost or improperly recorded because I was listed as a supporting member until I mailed them my square receipt showing I’d paid to upgrade, so it’s possible I did list a public name that simply never got recorded in the official record the first time.

8. Wow. Yet another thing “Lost in Translation”.

   Also, I suspect that people who were friends of the bid and voted never got listed unless they specifically asked to.

9. P.S. It looks like if you have a Hugo Voting Link, you can click on that and then go to members.worldcon.fi and magically get logged in to the form to fix your name. I don’t know if this is a bug or a feature.

10. Rick, did you actually read the main post?

11. Found my name.

12. Apparently the public name entry wasn’t on the form at Sasquan, so anyone who voted or joined there would be non-public unless they logged in later and fixed it

13. @Lenore Jones: Cool, thanks for the info that it should be added between now and the con.

14. Neither my name nor my Mom’s was on the public list either (mistook it for a badge name link and I don’t have a separate badge ID), but I just added them.

15. @Steve Wright: You and me both.

    @Kendall: It’s common use around me.

16. Lenore Jones / jonesnori: Apparently the public name entry wasn’t on the form at Sasquan, so anyone who voted or joined there would be non-public unless they logged in later and fixed it.

    There was a “publish your name? yes/no” thing on the Site Selection ballot, but it sounds as if they didn’t do anything with it and just defaulted people to “no” — but if you filled out the Public Name fields on a Membership purchase or upgrade, or by editing your details, they changed it to “yes”.

    It’s bizarre, it’s as if no one in their Membership Division has been involved with a Worldcon before — but you’d have expected them to have access to information from past Worldcons on how things are handled.

17. I requested a login and updated it this morning, and by this afternoon a friend had emailed my husband excitedly to find out if he was coming to Finland too, or if it was just me… my poor hubby had to explain I have a supporting membership and won’t be there in body, just in spirit.

18. JJ (whoever you are), yes I did read the main post. The main post said you needed to go to members.worldcon.fi and request a login link. I pointed out that you don’t need to do that if you are a member and keep your email around. Is that what you are asking?

19. Also, people should read the Site Selection Voting form very carefully. There are some gems of things that Helsinki has decided to do breaking with tradition there. No checks at con with walk-in votes. The only way to pay by credit card is to get a token online even at con. Payment only in cash Euros at con (or by pre-purchased token). People at NASFIC were incredulous in reading this.

20. Rick Kovalcik: The main post said you needed to go to members.worldcon.fi and request a login link. I pointed out that you don’t need to do that if you are a member and keep your email around. Is that what you are asking?

    You said: P.S. It looks like if you have a Hugo Voting Link, you can click on that and then go to members.worldcon.fi and magically get logged in to the form to fix your name. I don’t know if this is a bug or a feature.

    I’m trying to figure out why you’re wondering if this is a “bug or a feature”. The individual personalized link doesn’t change; if you can’t find your e-mail with it, and you aren’t already still logged in from clicking it previously (the cookie persists unless you log out or clear cookies), you can get another sent to you.

21. Rick Kovalcik: No checks at con with walk-in votes. The only way to pay by credit card is to get a token online even at con. Payment only in cash Euros at con (or by pre-purchased token). People at NASFIC were incredulous in reading this.

    In many non-U.S. countries, banks will charge something like $25 equivalent for cashing a U.S. check. I think it’s understandable. How many U.S. cons have been willing to accept payment in European checks?

22. To explain my thoughts on this a little bit more:

    Call your bank in the U.S. and ask them how much they will charge to cash a personal check written on a bank in another country. I guarantee that they will do one of two things: 1) quote you an exorbitant fee for cashing such a check, or 2) tell you that they don’t accept checks from other countries.

    In terms of financial transactions, the U.S. is still in the Dark Ages. Most of the other developed countries went to primarily card and electronic account-to-account transactions years ago. The reason the U.S. hasn’t done so is that there is still a sizable number of older people in this country who have chosen not to go electronic for whatever reason. 20 years from now, I think it will be very different.

    Don’t get me wrong: the last 2 years for Worldcon 75 have been a long string of organizational and communications failures (such as the one creating the need this post). I just don’t think that an inability to accept U.S. personal checks during the con in Helsinki is one of them. 😐

23. I could maybe understand the no checks, but having to buy some token online when you’re standing right there with a valid credit card? Presumably the same card you’d use to buy the online token?? Why aren’t they taking credit cards directly for site selection?

    Why a token anyway? Is the token physical, and do you put it in some sort of Rube Goldberg machine to vote? 🙂 I might not be surprised at this point.

    (And, yes, if you walk into my US bank with a foreign check, they’ll take it. Don’t know the fee, if any. You just can’t put it in the ATM like you can with domestic checks and US cash.)

24. Well, most non-US cons have realized that there is a benefit to having a US Bank Account because then you can do things like say print PRs in the USA and mail them from there to people in the USA so that people get their PRs with the Hugo Nomination information before the deadline and so on. Then, you just deposit the US checks in your US Bank Account.

    Also, apparently, Dublin was not consulted on this decision from what I can tell.

    Finally as someone pointed out not taking credit cards in person at con is kind of daft.

    P.S. You are still hiding behind your initials JJ.

25. Rick Kovalcik: You are still hiding behind your initials JJ.

    I’m not “hiding”. All of my posts are under that name.

    The fact that you see this as a problem speaks to your level of white privilege. Has it occurred to you that no one bothers you, or objects to you speaking your mind, simply because you are an older white man? How many death and rape threats have you gotten because you posted on online forums? How many times have your partner and children been threatened simply because you openly expressed your opinion online?

26. Rick, please lay off the complaints about JJ’s nom. JJ is a regular here and I think I can speak for most of the commentariat when I say we are not worried about their identity.

    If it helps, I have met both of you and am satisfied that neither of you is a troll. You have both met me as well, though you may not remember it.

27. Rick doesn’t spend much time online if he thinks it’s weird and sinister for people to use their initials or nicknames. I guess he’s gonna interrogate everyone in Helsinki who has a badge name (if that comes to pass) for “hiding”.

    There are plenty of SWM who use their initials too. Here on this very site, there are men using nicknames too. GASP! I somehow manage to believe they’re real, honest people.

    (My first computer system didn’t allow real names. You were required to pick from either “Lord of the Rings” or Muppets. Thus for 3 years I answered to “Lady Galadriel”. My friend Paul was “Cookie Monster”.)

28. lurkertype: Why a token anyway? Is the token physical, and do you put it in some sort of Rube Goldberg machine to vote?

    What Worldcon 75 refers to as a “token” is just a unique 6-character transaction code you receive after paying the fee with a card online, that you put in the space provided on your ballot. That way there is very little need for volunteer staff to be handling cash or cards; they can just validate the ballots against a list of valid transaction codes. It reduces the risk of theft and fraud (and staff stress).

    I saw someone complaining that their Windows XP machine with Internet Explorer 7 wouldn’t download and unzip the Hugo packet files. Both those OS and browser versions were sundowned years ago. While Worldcons make an effort to accommodate people in as many ways as possible, there should be some recognition by individuals that time and technology move on, and there comes a point where it is no longer practicable to expect a volunteer organization to continue to try to support a methodology that has become rare and expensive to accommodate.

29. Rick Kovalcik – P.S. You are still hiding behind your initials JJ.

    Does it count as hiding if only one of my initials is used? Because, you know, this is the internet, where everyone is kind, generous, stable, and civil, and I would never, ever be in any danger because I am a woman with opinions. After all, my children are no longer in elementary school, so some troll won’t send me a copy of their school newsletter just so I’d know that he knew where they went to school. (Seriously, dude, if all you have is that someone is using their initials, you aren’t exactly resting on a tripod.)

30. Lenore, of course I remember you, and I hope to see you again at San Jose next year (I am unfortunately not able to go to Helsinki). 😀

31. Rick Kovalcik:

    “No checks at con with walk-in votes. The only way to pay by credit card is to get a token online even at con. Payment only in cash Euros at con (or by pre-purchased token).”

    Checks in Europe? 😀

    Finland is a different country, you know? I can’t remember when checks were used anywhere in Sweden. 15 years ago? 20 years? And even then, it was never used as in US. Bank transfers were the standard. Also, why should Finland accept another currency than theirs? That is just weird.

    Try to pay with euros in an american store.

32. I’m hiding behind my real name. My nick is Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumble-meyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitzweimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm.

33. @JJ: ::boggle:: If IE 7 can’t handle the modern Worldcon 75 member site, I bet the last-supported-on-XP version of Firefox or Chrome or some other browser could. (UnZIPing’s been around since before Windows, so that can’t be an issue.) Mind you, I’m not offering to do tech support for whoever complained about it! 😉

    @Rick Kovalcik: I have no proof “Rick Kovalcik” isn’t a pseudonym. ::eyeroll:: You’re reminding me of Nick Mamatas (not in a good way).

    @Hampus Eckerman: That’s a mouthful, and then some! I’ll call you “Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumble-meyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitzweimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher” for short. 😛

    As for my name: John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt. His name is my name, too.

34. Kendall: If IE 7 can’t handle the modern Worldcon 75 member site, I bet the last-supported-on-XP version of Firefox or Chrome or some other browser could.

    As I understand it, their only computer access is through their employer, and they have no control over the hardware and software. So I sympathize, but… That same interface that so many Hugo voters are raving about is so wonderful precisely because it makes use of newer technology.

35. JJ, I plan to be in San Jose, so I hope I’ll see you there!

36. @JJ: Oh, that bites. One wonders how they’ll be able to use the packet anyway, if that’s the case, though. 😉 Anyway, yeah, I do like the worldcon.fi Hugo interface. The voting part was a little jumpy, but only a little (pick a selection and I briefly see it twice, but after the first couple of times, I didn’t worry).

    I love the confirmation e-mail actually arriving, too. ::remembering another year where this was an issue::

37. I’m from transformative works fandom and gaming where pseudonyms are more common than even first names let alone full ones. One of my best friends routinely calls me ‘Hira’ because it’s short for my primary gaming identity, and she knows perfectly well what my full name is. My partner tries to use different pseudonyms for each internet forum for internet privacy and security reasons. One of the biggest drama explosions in Warcraft was when Blizzard announced that they were going to require legal names for the forums (they backtracked pretty fast after the outcry). Legal names aren’t and shouldn’t be a requirement for a discussion. I really don’t understand why some people in con-fandom react so badly to pseudonyms.

    (Also, checks are obsolete for the most part in the UK and I’m guessing most of Europe. I only interact with checks when elderly relatives send them to me, and it’s super annoying – not that I’m ungrateful! I like money! – because my town has basically no physical banks or building societies anymore so I have to send the dratted things off in the post.)

38. From an ex-European:

    1) Cheques were pretty much obsolete when I left the UK 15 years ago. Before that, we bought a company in Sweden and when I asked about the cheque writing procedure, they looked at me as if I was daft, as they never wrote them. So yes, cheques are pretty much obsolete, and the handing cost for a US check would be astronomical.

    2), on credit cards, chip+PIN is ubiquitous (for a rather nefarious reason – in the US, fraud usage falls on the bank, in the UK, if not all of the EU, any transactions with chip + PIN is assumed to be authorized, which is why it was adopted so fast). This means that the Square -type readers which just use the magnetic strip are not normally adequate for in person transactions, you need a chip reader, so that will cost a lot more to have on hand. Clearly they’ve sorted this out for online transactions, and are just leveraging that for the registration, which is actually pretty clever. It also stops any travelling USian fen with a non-chip card from complaining when it is declined (tip to any travelling fen – you’re probably gonna need a credit card with a chip on it, and the associated PIN, to get transactions done in Europe)

    Chris

39. Whilst keeping out of any controversy re badge v real names-2 tips I use (as a former ESFS-Eurocon Chair) re the “C V V” code (3 digits on the back of yr debit/credit cards) and re PINS to reduce card fraud if they are lost/stolen. Write that CVV down elsewhere **safely** in at least two places (and only ye know what it relates to). Then –and only then– razor blade it away on the back of the card (making sure it cant be read by shining the card against any light). It wont stop –in most of Europe the wave and pay system (there is a wave symbol thereon if that system is available on the card)– which usually allows up to 5 payments or so (up to ~UK£30 or maybe its equivalent in Euros/US$ or whatever-each time) and then thereafter a PIN has to be put in. But what it does stop is very large amounts being charged against yr lost/stolen cards ‘cos the C V V is missing! Of course ye have to bring separately with ye the CVV data. Also –shock– I write my PIN (different for each card) on the back (but wait : it is in code). An old example (this no longer applies): eg the 4 digit PIN was (say) 4528 -well I write Ray B+1 (ie 451 (as in F451)+1 =452) and Nana -2 (my long gone g/ma’s house no – 2). Easy peasy. best to all. And –as they say in The Prisoner (50 yrs old this Sept) BCNU in Helsinki and vote for Dublin (I’m Irish!)!

40. @Chris S: The last time I was in the EU (not that long ago), IIRC we didn’t need PINs for our chip+sign cards. We just said “our card is chip+sign, not chip+PIN” and that’s what we did (when we used the card), no trouble. Still, I’ll try to remember to check on a PIN, which seems like it’ll minimize the risk of problems. I do recall one or two merchants being slightly confused (or just amused) at the chip+sign concept. 😉

    In the U.S., when the chip reader’s not disabled (Le Sigh; thankfully, less common now), it’s usually #1 chip-only for under a certain dollar amount and #2 chip+sign for over that amount.

    Yes, some U.S. systems, industries, and merchants are antiquated, while some European systems, etc. are. 😉 I look forward to chip+PIN taking hold here*, and decent air conditioning taking hold in the E.U. 😛

    * First we have to get all merchants to enable the stupid chip reader. ::eyeroll::

41. @Dave Lally: My other half (of Irish descent, as it happens) and/or I are supporters or friends or something for Dublin in 2020 already, IIRC. 😀 We plan to vote and we’re looking forward to Dublin. It’s been a long time since we’ve been there (IIRC, my brother’s wedding to a wonderful Irish woman)!

42. Meredith, in the U.S., where checks are still somewhat common, many banks have added remote deposit to their bank apps. You endorse the check, then photograph both sides, confirm the information the app detects, and press ok. It usually works. There is a dollar limit on it ($5,000 for my bank right now), and an item limit (I think 5 checks per day), and businesses which want to use it pay to have those limits raised.

    This is not to say that checks aren’t still old tech, just that places that use them anyway can find ways to make them less clunky.

    [Makes mental note to buy site selection token]

43. Hampus, I hope you don’t mind if I shorten it to Joe Gambolputty de von Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumble-meyer-spelterwasser-kurstlich-himbleeisen-bahnwagen-gutenabend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwustle-gerspurten-mitzweimache-luber-hundsfut-gumberaber-shönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittler-aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm.

44. In Sweden, private transfers are often done by a system called swish. You have an app where your phone number is tied to your bankaccount. If you want to transfer money to someone, you only need to know their phone number and you will sign the transfer with your electronic bank id. That is how smaller sellers handle stuff instead of credit card readers.

    I have gotten checks. Two times from my grandmother, maybe 30-35 years ago. I think the larger companies also have some automatic system if you manage to pay your bills twice.

45. @Leonore Jones – the scanned/picture of checks was due to a change in the law in the US (Check 21 Act), which allowed checks to be processed off a scanned image, without the physical check being needed to process. It’s not a particular bank thing, so pretty much all checks are now scanned – you may occasionally see language to the effect of a scan is as good as a physical check on some documents.

    There are still some odd rules about checks, which is why where I work prints out thousands of checks for payments, scans them, then shreds the paper version. Technology is wonderful 😉

    Kendall, glad you had luck with the non chip + PIN cards – it depends on the vendor, the issue is responsibility for payment – if you pay by chip + PIN it’s next to impossible to challenge the validity of the charge, so the merchant is confident of getting paid, if just slide & sign, it’s much easier to dispute. Some bigger entities may not take a signed slip because of that.

46. @Kendall Actually, Rick Kovalcik is a psuedonym for Richard Kovalcik, Jr. I guess I might confuse some people by going by Rick Kovalcik, paradoox, or RKOV at cons. However Google will probably confirm that all three are the same person and where I live and what my phone number is. Or Mike Glyer or a bunch of other people on File770 who have met me in the flesh and could confirm that I am who I say I am.

47. @Cheryl S. First names are somewhat less “bad” because if I run into you at a con you probably would have the same first name on your badge. Unless of course you are really trying to hide something, in which case I probably don’t want to run into you at a con.

48. @JJ Sigh, no I don’t tend to get death threats or other forms of harassment because I”m generally not an a__hole. I also know how to private message someone and say things like “Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you and / or it wasn’t clear which of your posts I was replying too. BTW, I’m _____ _____, but I’ve gotten a bunch of internet harassment and some of it has been pretty ugly, so I tend not to use my real name in public or semi-public places. Also, I think I ran into you at FooCon when you were doing X and I was doing Y. “

49. This problem goes way back. Shakespeare’s plays weren’t really written by Shakespeare but by someone else with the same name.

50. @Rick Kovalcik – First names are somewhat less “bad” because if I run into you at a con you probably would have the same first name on your badge.

    Hmmm, that sounds like nonsense generally, but in this particular case my badge name in Kansas City was Cheryl S. and JJ’s was JJ, so your argument is extra silly. Also, it’s like you only have a bare acquaintance with the internet and what a truly terrible place it can be.

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