aka “The Brand and Bark Concerto”
In today’s roundup are Larry Correia, Cedar Sanderson, solarbird, Jim C. Hines, Stefan Raets, Patri Friedman, Allan Thomas, Steven Saus, Amanda S. Green, Sarah A. Hoyt, L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright, Mike Flynn, Tim Atkinson, Lis Carey, Melina D, and Joe Sherry. (Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editors of the day JJ and RedWombat, and Anna Nimmhaus.)
Larry Correia on Monster Hunter Nation
“Sad Puppies are not calling for any boycotts” – June 18
I’m seeing this narrative pop up that Sad Puppies is calling for a boycott of Tor, but that is simply not true. Speaking as the guy who started the Sad Puppies campaign, I’m not calling for a boycott of anything. I’m not asking anyone to do anything. As far as I’m concerned this mess is between Tor and its customers. I’ve said very little about it so far, but I’ve been clear about that much.
The Sad Puppies Campaign is NOT calling for any boycotts.
[Continues with a discussion of recent history, and outlines Peter Grant’s background.]
After being a soldier, Peter hung up his guns and became a man of God. SJWs are saying that he’s a homophobe because he agreed with Sad Puppies, while in real life he volunteered at a colony for homosexuals who had been forsaken by African society, dying of AIDS. When I first met him, Peter was a prison chaplain, trying to help the fallen and broken, and victims of things you can’t even imagine. Basically, he’s an honorable man who puts his money where his mouth is, and now he’s offended.
Peter asked for a retraction from the Tor editor who flippantly dismissed thousands of fans as unrepentant racist neo-nazis. I don’t believe he’s calling for anything beyond that.
Again, this is between Tor and its readers who feel insulted, not the Sad Puppies campaign or the people who ran it. Yes, those Venn diagrams overlap, but sorry, you can’t blame this one on me. Many normal fans agreed with what Sad Puppies was trying to do, and shockingly enough, they eventually got sick and tired of employees of one of their favorite publishing houses calling them names. I’m not calling for anything, though I can certainly understand why some people are.
If any individual who felt insulted is satisfied with Tom Doherty’s statement saying that his employees don’t speak for his company, good for you. If any individual is unsatisfied and demands further action, that’s also up to you. I’m not going to tell anybody what to think.
For the other side who are saying that Gallo is the real victim here, and she was only speaking truth to power… Yeah, you guys run with that. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together can see she her comments were nonsense. The only thing she is a victim of is arrogance.
To the SJWs saying Tom Doherty is a hateful misogynist because he isn’t letting his employees libel people on the clock anymore? Double down. There might be some people left out there who haven’t realized I was right about you yet.
To the Tor authors I’m seeing post about this, the Sad Puppies campaign is not calling for a boycott. If you are upset why people are angry take it up with your art director about why she’s insulting your customers.
To the Sad Puppies supporters, do what you think is right. All I’m asking is that whatever you do, try to be as civil as possible in your disagreements. Stick with the facts. We’ve got the moral high ground, and the great moderate middle of this debate has seen we’ve been telling the truth all along.
Cedar Sanderson in a comment on Monster Hunter Nation – June 17
I have blogged extensively on this, in part because Peter Grant, who I am honored to call a friend, asked me to weigh in as a businesswoman. I have not been calling for a boycott or even a dismissal of Irene Gallo. It is simply a horrible example of unprofessional behavior, and an opportunity for Tor to show that they do respect their customers and vendors even though there is a lot of evidence that certain personnel do not.
solarbird on crime and the forces of evil
“this is just pathetic: puppy boycott, ahoy” – June 18
Anyway, the demands are ludicrous, but to summarise:
- Tor must publicly apologize for writings by Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, Moshe Feder, Irene Gallo, and John Scalzi that “demonize, denigrate, slander and lie about the ‘Puppies’ campaigns”
- Tor must “publicly reprimand those individuals for stepping over the line”
- Tor must “publicly indicate that it is putting in place policies to prevent any recurrence of such issues.”
See, this is exactly what you get when you hang one of your own out to dry for making personal comments on their own Facebook page like Tor did. You get escalation. So I’m honestly having a hard time feeling sorry for Tor Books here; it was as predictable a piece of politics as one can imagine. And I’m not just saying that in retrospect; I said so at the time.
Now mind you, this “boycott” is pretty must sad-trumpet amateur hour for several reasons, not the least is probable inability to make visible economic impact. As Vox himself admitted, he hasn’t bought anything from Tor in years, and I doubt all that many of the others who are going to sign on to this thing have either. A few, sure, absolutely – with the hilarious side-effect that means the writers they might be able to hurt are the ones on their side.
I think Mike Glyer has done an admirable job keeping up on the Hugo discussion, but I wonder if it's time to stop those round-ups.
— Jim C. Hines (@jimchines) June 18, 2015
https://twitter.com/sraets/status/611547350243217408
Patri Friedman
[Seasteader, son of David, grandson of Milton…]
“Being intolerant of people you don’t like because they’re intolerant” – June 18
So, there is some kerfluffle about Tor books, because one of their employees (Irene Gallo) said on her personal Facebook page that the sad puppies (conservatives fighting a culture war to make SF less SJW-influenced) were racist, homophobic, neo-nazis. Sad puppy supporters like SF author Peter Grant, who has literally exchanged gunfire with neo-nazis in South Africa were understandably outraged at this characterization. And (not so understandably, to me) calling for firing/resignation/public abasement of these employees. Which is where I have a problem. This sounds a lot like:
“Your business must publicly apologize for the hateful speech of your employee which has offended a small minority of listeners by publicly abasing yourselves, and promising not to do it again. This will show the world that hate cannot be tolerated; the strong cannot abuse the weak; and (incidentally) that our tribe is powerful and can grind your tribe under our boot if you dare offend us.”
Which is what anti-SJWers complain about the left doing. Sorry guys, but it’s bad when SJWs do it; and it’s bad when anti-SJWs do it, because, well, it’s bad. As I’ve previously posted, ideological diversity is important, and ideological intolerance is the enemy of ideological diversity and the progress that comes from having many opinions and beliefs working in parallel. Making people suffer professionally for their personal political opinions is stellar example of harmful ideological intolerance.
Allan Thomas on LewRockwell.com
“The High Church of Science Fiction and Tor” – June 19
I had heard, from several reliable sources, that it was next to impossible for a libertarian science fiction writer to break into the field. I absolutely refused to pretend to be non-libertarian just to get published, and so I followed Larry Correia’s Sad Puppies campaign with interest. Brad Torgerson and Vox Day were able to gather a core following of 360 voters and completely sweep the Hugo award nominations. Yes, it only took 360 science fiction fans to completely overwhelm the existing system.
The fallout from that event still has not settled, and the awards won’t even be announced until August. But the reaction makes it obvious that there is a sizable percentage of science fiction fandom that is “not satisfied with the products and services being offered.” Entrepreneurs have a name for this situation–”market opportunity.”
However, to date, it appears that only Castallia House is focused on providing science fiction for this segment of the market; they have even signed a new deal with legendary writer Jerry Pournelle.
For their part, Tor Books seems content to continue to ignore this dissatisfied segment of science fiction fandom. And, in fact, Tor employees are content to insult them.
Steven Saus on ideatrash
“The Topical Changes In Science Fiction And Fantasy Has Nothing To Do WIth Sad Or Rabid Puppies” – June 18
The change in science fiction and fantasy over the last sixty years little to do with politics, and a lot more to do (ironically) with technology.
The current state of sf (science fiction) and f (fantasy) has a small vocal portion of its readership bemoaning the loss of “traditional” science fiction and fantasy. An oft-repeated quote is paraphrased as “Back in the day, when you bought a book with an astronaut on the cover, you knew what you were getting.”
The historical accuracy of this impression, like much nostalgia, is debatable. But more importantly, it is irrelevant.
To understand why, we must look to the Ferris Wheel….
Amanda S. Green on Nocturnal Lives
“Time to take a deep breath, stop and think” – June 18
… I’m going to part with one last comment. When I was growing up, I loved SF/F because there was a place for everyone, at least that is the way it seemed. Looking at it now, it feels like a house divided where those on the inside are doing their best to bar the door to everyone else, including a large faction of the reading public. That has got to stop and now.
L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright interviews Mike Flynn on Superversive SF
”Interview with Hugo Nominated Author: Mike Flynn!” – June 18
7) How did you come up with the idea for your current nominated story?
A supporting character in Up Jim River had a backstory in which he had journeyed across the face of his home world before making contact with an interstellar trade ship. That gave me the notion of telling his story. The idea is that as he travels east he encounters progressively more technologically advanced cultures. “In the Stone House” was the second of these stories and was originally was the first half of a longer story the second half of which (“Against the Green”) appeared in the succeeding issue of ANALOG.
Sarah A. Hoyt on According To Hoyt
“Of Pigs, Fights and Life” – June 18
When I said that I couldn’t mention the letters “H-u-g- and o” in the same paragraph without getting linked, I was right. Or I might not mention the Hugos at all, or only in passing on the last paragraph. But if the post supports the narrative the puppy-kickers are building, sure as shooting it will get linked. Like my post about a new Golden Age, which got linked because in their blinkered little minds we’re calling for pulp. (Sometimes one wonders about the minds that build this narrative. You are aware someone who grew up on pulp would be 100, right? You are aware that Heinlein not only wasn’t pulp, but was in many ways the anti-pulp. I mean, I read Burroughs, but mostly Tarzan, and it wasn’t my favorite. I read him because grandad had him, so I read him by 5 or 6. Books were expensive and we had those. But his technique was outdated by then.)
But it supported the narrative, so it got linked. The same way that its subsequent “Oh, for the love of frack, no one wants pulp” follow up wasn’t. The same way my friend Sanford’s post over at Otherwhere Gazette, exploding their nonsense wasn’t. The same way my post pointing out that I felt they were linking me to homophobia and how stupid this was wasn’t.
Oh, it’s very carefully done. There is an image being built, and he links to those posts that support it. Then when caught it’s not his fault and he can’t control his commenters, and he can’t see everything.
And, as I said, I have been conversant with these techniques since dealing with the cobbler’s son next door, while growing up. (Weirdly he didn’t become a communist politician, and has instead racked up several jail terms.)
So Mike Glyer is smarter than the average bear, and much better at Alinsky techniques, and I’m an idiot to fall for them and come out swinging, which meant I had a spanking coming.
Tim Atkinson on Magpie Moth
“Kevin J Anderson’s The Dark Between The Stars: control, not mastery” – June 18
I also hadn’t realised – according to Wikipedia – that KJA has written more than 50 best-sellers. It’s easy to be sniffy about writers who tend to work in already established universes, but you don’t keep getting those gigs unless you are good at what you do.
So, before I talk you through The Dark Between The Stars, it’s hats off to an author doing very well for himself at the commercial end of the market.
Dark is more of what Anderson does – space opera on an epic scale – only in a sandbox of his own devising to play in. And what an elaborate, detailed, techno-baroque sandbox it is too, taking in psychic empires, gas giant mining, insectoid robot, gestalt forests, plague collectors and colours from out of spaaaaaaaaaace.
This world-bling – to borrow a phrase from China Mieville – is one of two main admirable qualities the novel has, the other being the plotting. Anderson juggles a huge cast and multiple plot-lines without breaking a sweat, like the hugely experienced pro he is.
But I’m essentially praising Dark as a feat of literary engineering rather than as a novel. These are virtues of control rather than mastery. The array of characters I found unengaging and rather one-dimensional, the action curiously flat. And the sheer size of the book and number of stories spreads Anderson too thinly, so that no single thread truly breathes in its own right.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
“The Deaths of Tao (The Lives of Tao #2), by Wesley Chu” – June 18
Wesley Chu is a nominee for the 2015 John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer.
…All in all, I nearly bounced off this book.
And then, thirty or forty pages in, the characters started to matter to me, and their problems became interesting, and a bit further in, I stopped caring that this is a story type I normally find really dumb and annoying. What can you do? I kept reading. Best New Writer? That seems a fair conclusion, even with the slates this year having possibly kept other good candidates off the ballot….
Melina D on Subversive Reader
“Hugos 2015 Reading: Novellas” – June 18
[Reviews all five nominated novellas.]
So today I got the Hugo Packet and decided I would start to read some of the fiction. I haven’t completely decided how I’m going to arrange my votes around the slate, but I was curious about why certain fiction was chosen to be part of the Sad/Rabid Puppy slate. I gave myself permission to give up on short fiction after at least 6 pages if I wanted to. But when I began reading the novellas, I started to get angry. Really bloody angry. So, of course, I decided to blog about them.
The novella category is one of those which was completely stacked by the puppies. I was expecting fiction which wasn’t my usual cup of tea, but still well written examples of fiction I might not usually choose to read. But, honestly, the writing was shit. I’m going to go into more detail on each of the novellas, but 4 out of the 5 of them shouldn’t have been published with such low quality of writing. The 5th was competent – which was a relief – but nowhere near award nomination quality….
Joe Sherry on Adventures In Reading
“Thoughts on the Hugo Award Nominees: Novelette” – June 18
The best of the bunch here is Rajnar Vajra’s “The Triple Sun: A Golden Age Tale”, though I’m really not sure what the “Golden Age” part of it is all about. Is it a suggestion that the story harkens back to the golden age of science fiction or is it part of a larger Golden Age milieu that Vajra is working in. If the second, I can’t find any other Golden Age tales. Regardless, “The Triple Sun” is a story with some space exploration, adventure, sass, and all in all good fun.
My Vote
1. The Triple Sun: A Golden Age Tale
2. Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust, Earth to Alluvium
3. Championship B’Tok
4. The Day the World Turned Upside Down
5. No Award
6. The Journeyman: In the Stone House
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I have finished page 10! I have been to the bookstore! I have spent way too much money.
Elizabeth Bear: Karen Memory
Cherie Priest: Boneshaker
Ann & Jeff VanderMeer: The Weird
Jo Walton: The Just City, My Real Children, What Makes This Book So Great
And because I was there, and other publishers put out awesome books, and I needed this one,
Robert Jackson Bennett: City of Stairs
I shopped more or less by the “Ooh, shiny!” principle. Then I realized things were getting heavy, which probably translated to expensive, and I’d better avert my eyes from the shelf and head back downstairs to the checkout desk.
Where I found my purchases being checked out by an old roller derby friend, someone who was part of our league a couple years ago but who had to bow out due to Life & Things. Clearly June 19 was the right day to go to the bookstore.
Happy Torsday Friday!
Can we stop pearl-clutching over Aaron’s mildly intemperate remarks several pages back in the comment thread? Because the more people bang on about his slightly tetchy comments, the more I’m tempted to go Full Glaswegian on some of these bawbags, and that’ll make Aaron look like the Duchess of Cambridge.
Children of Earth is a legitimately good miniseries, but I don’t want to spring the Hyperion Trap – no matter how bad I say the 2 series preceding it was, or how bad advent children was, someone watching Children of Earth is going to be tempted to watch that other torchwood stuff.
Because it CAN’T be THAT bad, right?
And they’ll be wrong. And they shall buy a box set of the series and then they shall know suffering.
Junego, happy to help. With spoons! 🙂
@ Iain Coleman
Yeah, the problem is that with the speed these threads move, sometimes people are commenting several pages back without realizing. Not point getting shirty about it, honestly.
@Gabrieal F. and Bruce: Thanks much for the kind words.
@Octavia: Ace was Ace the Bathound, right?
😉
I loved Donna. She is my second-favorite companion after the Amy/Rory combo.
Separately, might this finally be the place where other people recognize that Wilfred Mott is obviously the Doctor’s father, passed through a Chameleon Arch. I am perfectly serious about this.
@Fred – not trolling, just remembering a vague rec from a few years back that if I was bouncing off old-school Dr. Who, maybe the spouse and I should try Torchwood.
I have to admit, though, that I’m not a fan of stories where the plot only advances because the protagonist has an attack of stupidity–like Sheridan in most of B5’s fifth season.
@Jin Henley
I thought your post was good too, and a helpful perspective to have.
@Jim Henley:
That was powerful.
…
I am an indiscriminate Doctor Who fan. I love it all, although I will freely admit much of it is awful. There’s taste for you, I suppose.
At any rate, I made *absolutely* *sure* to show youngsters new to Who “Trial of a Time Lord” *before* I showed them the first Colin Bakers, so at least they got to see the character at his best first. (After that they were incredulous at the hateful scripts and rotten character poor Colin Baker had to endure early in his run.)
Plus also, Brian Blessed. I mean, hey.
Iain Coleman: “Can we stop pearl-clutching over Aaron’s mildly intemperate remarks several pages back in the comment thread?”
Thank you.
Using Juneteenth? Just say no.
I have finished all the Rivers of London books and am in severe withdrawal. Please feed my addiction for something with the same emotional impact and smarts – set in London for bonus yum.
If those books are message fic, you could have fooled me though. The only thing I didn’t like was the way several women/potential girlfriends were fridged. But, eh, I can live with it.
No Wilf Mott was Grand Moff Tarkin’s friend after the explosion of the Death Star sent him into an alternate space in which he adopted the disguise of a human form of the Doctor. His first name is even “Wilhuff” (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wilhuff_Tarkin ) …so WIlhuff Moff -> Wilfred Mott.
Cushing is canon 🙂
I think everyone here might have forgotten the best scifi tv series of all time. StarGate. Nothing, not Doctor Who, Firefly even Farscape comes close to the greatness that is (or sadly was) StarGate.
@Greg, glad you like that comment of mine over at Brads. I thoroughly enjoyed your three part comment over there. I was disappointed in the responses you got.
For Tor book buying day, I have picked up A Natural History of Dragons. Looking forward to getting into it, once I finish reading Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell.
Jim, I totally agree that was Davies’ intent. Once you know he wanted the Woman in White to be the Doctor’s mum, Wilf’s connection to her makes the most sense as the Doctor’s dad.
But as I feel strongly that there is absolutely no storytelling potential to the idea, I ignore it. 🙁
Connie Willis is a wonderful person. She’s a beloved and fantastic guest at SF cons, a hilarious toastmaster, MC, and presenter and her presence on panels and her Kaffeeklatches are a joy.
She is also a very good writer of the very good and popular Time Travel series among many other books and stories.
Also, Blackout/All Clear was over six years in the writing, waaaay over due and fans had been getting snips and tidbits at readings at cons for ages. It was highly anticipated.
That’s some of the background leading up to those books being released and the Hugo nominations and voting that year.
Feed came in second. But it was leading in every round for first place until all the other four candidates (that includes No Award) were eliminated (779 votes for Blackout/All Clear verses 753 for Feed). So BO/AC was not a shoo-in winner.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/2011%20Final%20Ballot.pdf (warning, that’s a .pdf)
I am under the impression that Willis and GRRM turned in their very overdue and really large manuscripts to their shared editor at about the same time. I can’t remember where I got that impression though. If true, I suspect that may have impacted the books. I, too, feel they could have benefited from more rigorous editing.
On an utterly other topic, does anyone else think young John Barrowman would have made a perfect Ivan Vorpatril?
Torchwood, hmm …
Of the three shows in the Who universe, I tend to think of “Doctor Who” as the one most in the balance of light and dark.
“The Sarah Jane Adventures” (Oh, Elisabeth Sladen, you finally got the show you deserved. I can only hope you enjoyed it while you lasted. Sob.) seemed to me the sunniest, most optimistic, most kid-friendly of the three.
And then there’s “Torchwood.”
As “Doctor Who” was scarier and more horrifying than “The Sarah Jane Adventures,” so was “Torchwood” darker, grimmer, bleaker, and more pessimistic than “Doctor Who.”
I am not into bleak much. I hate when characters are stupid and come to horrible ends or worse immortalities. So “Torchwood” was really not for me.
There was a brilliant fakeout in the premiere, though, so there’s that.
And John Barrowman seems to be a genuinely sweet guy and loved playing the role of Captain Jack.
But overall, pretty danged bleak.
My Torday on Friday purchases: Voyage of the Basilisk and pre-ordered Last First Snow.
I gather Irene Gallo does the art-directing for the Lady Trent series, and I think the covers are *aces*.
The Craft Sequence covers are IMHO a *very* mixed business. The first is excellent, but the guy on the cover of Two Serpents Rise is not the guy in the book — who has a broad nose, a wide, round face, and medium (not pale) skin. He is, basically, an Aztec (Nahua), but he’s been white-washed for the cover.
The cover of Full Fathom Five depicts two women: one is the black woman from the first book, and the other appears to be Japanese … but from the text, it’s quite clear that the second woman is Polynesian, probably Hawaiian.
I don’t even know why the artist made that change … all people from the western side of the Pacific look alike? Search me.
Thank you for the spoons link several pages ago. It makes some things clearer that were perplexing in the comments.
Well not that I needed an excuse for going to a bookstore – I picked up Goblin Emperor, whispers Underground, Cold Fire, Cold Magic, Immortal Crown (thank you for finally spurring my memory of the previous book Gameboard of the Gods File770), Mist, Black Ice, and Peacemaker.
My Dad got some Eric Flint – 1632
@cmm “Also got I Don’t Want to Kill You a couple of days ago, which sounds kind of like Dexter crossed with Dresden–potential serial killer focuses his desire for killing on hunting demons.”
That’s a good one. First of a trilogy.
Linking to Jim Henley’s comment here, which should be one of our keepers.
Powerfully and truthfully put.
@John Seavey: Oh, the series lasted through two entire seasons with essentially zero story-telling virtues (the last two where poor Matt Smith had to do all the work to save every episode not written by Gaiman). More Wilfred Mott could only have improved those. 🙂
But your answer is good enough for me! I think it’s obvious RTD left that thread for Moffat to pick up if he wanted and Bernard Cribbins’ health allowed. Personally, I would love to see Cribbins opposite Capaldi, but clearly Your Mileage Varies.
Since we were talking about RPGs and Ken Hite a bit ago…The Dracula Dossier is nearing completion. What I think that people here might find interesting is the fiction/gaming rewrite of Bram Stoker’s Dracula as an after action report …
I am looking forward to reading this one soon.
After looking at the stacks of unread books occupying most of the horizontal space in the house, and digging through the book bag from the last World Fantasy Con (“I knew I had a copy of Natural History of Dragons somewhere – oh, and here’s a Jo Walton – and a Peter Beagle – and a Joe Abercrombie”) I can’t in good conscience buy another book until I work through some of the backlog. And my spouse manages the SFF section for the local Friends of the Library sales so he brings home a couple of books a month. If only there were a way to implant the books directly into one’s brain instead of having to go through the actual reading process, which for me is 2-3 a week at the most.
Sigh. So many good books, so little time. It makes me even more resentful that I spent time reading the RP nominees.
Idon’tknow: The more you talk about these hypothetical purple guys whom X or Y or me is driving away, the more I hear you engaging in what we in glittery hoohah cultural marxist circles call blaming the victim and the more inclined I am to pay any attention to you.
Have you heard about unconscious and/or aversive sexism, racism, etc.?
The theory in sociology is that these are a set of unconscious and unexamined assumptions that we ALL have that affect our behaviors when we’re being nice, typical people.
But it’s still possible for nice normal people to hold subconscious prejudices.
http://www.yale.edu/intergroup/PearsonDovidioGaertner.pdf
So, I don’t really give a fuck about these dudes who will blame the people who are victims of micro and macro oppressions, and use the tone argument against the uppity minorities to justify their own prejudices.
Why do you (care about them)?
Yeah, a lot of writers (J. Michael Straczynski and RTD are both suckers for this) confuse ignorance and stupidity – you want, more often than not, the narrative pov or at least the protagonist to be ignorant of an upcoming development so that they and the readership are surprised when something unexpected happens and feel invested in finding out how the hero gets out of this unforseeable situation they’re unprepared for.
If the character is stupid however, the readers are gonna go “well you deserved that you dumbass” and generally not be surprised by the twist or not impressed by whatever means the character uses to escape or resolve the problem they themselves have created. The only time it’s generally sensible for a writer to do that is when the emotional beats of the story are focused on the character suffering because of the screwup or growing as a character so they stop screwing up.
Thanks to File770 commenters, I just added Midnight Riot, Take the Star Road, and A Darker Shade of Magic to my Tor buying spree! *tucks away slightly smoking credit card*
I liked the Incryptid books, nice, light urban fantasyish stuff, and then Sparrow Hill Road was quirky but fun, and then BAM! she ties them up into a family history with the short stories and YOW! it kicked it up into ‘I love this stuff’ levels. Each story in and of itself was good, but its like Stross and the Laundry PLUS the other cold war Cthulhu stuff… takes the collection to a whole new level.
In re-reading my comment, I do not mean to leave the impression that people voted for BO/AC due to the personality of the author. I think it was the quality of the series and the enjoyment of a highly anticipated book that lead to those votes.
And note the majority of voters did not vote for it in first place. It was a very hard fight between it and Feed right to the end.
ULTRAGOTHA:
Ah, that Willis explanation makes sense. One factor that the Puppies (and others) often overlook is that Hugo voters go to cons, so pros who also go to cons and do well at that particular sort of social networking get a boost, just as writers with very active e-social networks get a boost.
Actually, maybe they don’t overlook it. This whole business started with Larry Correia trying to use his very active e-SN to get himself a Hugo, after all.
David W: You are correct. Will Shetterly is the one of whom it is said Do not engage,
Anyone citing Mr. Shetterly’s advice on anything approvingly is waving a big red flag for many of us who were involved in the Racefail ’09 debates.
I liked Midnight Riot but I hope in later books that the hero stops being such a Nice Guy(tm) to his female colleague in the hopes that she’ll sleep with him.
Obviously I’m in the “don’t stop the roundups” camp, though I hope we’d all stick around without it.
To me, it feels as though Mike’s given us/we’ve given Mike exactly what File 770 promises on the tin: the party that never ends. Sometimes quiet and contemplative, sometimes spilling out of the door and down the hallway, all under the Sign of the TBR Pile.
If I could fanart, I would do Mike a new banner (the one he’s using comes standard with this WordPress theme): a picture of the room, full of all kinds of people and characters, talking about SF and fantasy and dragons and rockets (all kinds). With Mike sweeping up the trolls like a house-cleaning Santa.
THAT’S the show I couldn’t remember but wanted to recommend as a potential alternative intro to the doctor who universe: the Sarah Jane Adventures is decently written and has a likeable cast of character – it is a show that continued until the actor who played the titular character died, so you know it was decent as the lead actors of bad shows have an annoying tendency to not cut their shows short via terminal existence failures.
(With the Simpson increasingly looking like it’s gonna be an exception to that rule, alas)
@snowcrash
“Regardless, this was Aarons post that got your dander up:”
The post you linked was not the one that got my dander up. What got happened that got my dander up happened well before that when he simultaneously decided that he knew more about the friendships I had with a group of people who were personally very important to me, that they would refuse to tell me how they felt because they all suspected that I was a closet racist/sexist/bigot who would not care about their feelings, and then when he refused to stop talking to me when I politely and then not quite as politely asked him not to do it anymore.
At any rate, this is the last post I’ll make about Aaron, because as others have mentioned, I’ve already singled him out in posts too much. But your post was based on an assumption that was incorrect. All he did in that post was to provide a quick example of what I was talking about at that particular point in time. What he did before that is why I haven’t answered any of his posts from the time he did it and why I won’t answer any in the future.
McJulie: Northwest cons during the 1980s!
It was a close miss: I left the Seattle area for Boise, Idaho, to teach composition in 1985 (was there for three years, back to Seattle for my doctorate–once I decided that I would like to work fulltime teaching at a university–in 1989, but wasn’t active in con fandom by then, and soon left APA-5).
I am still bitter by the way that I never learned about slash fiction when I was in Trek fandom!111!! It took reading academic essays (specifically Joanna Russ’ “Pornography by Women, For Women, With Love,” in Magic Mommas, Trembling Sisters, Puritans and Perverts).
Oh, look Brit Mandela reviewed the collection at that hive of hoohah glitterati, tor.com.
And here is the title essay on a blog
@rrede
“Why do you (care about them)?”
Mainly because they are people and because I’ve known people like them before. I think I’ve answered versions of this particular questions several times over the course of the day. Maybe others are right and the people I am thinking of don’t actually exist in the construct that I’ve created.
nightengale: “I liked Midnight Riot but I hope in later books that the hero stops being such a Nice Guy(tm) to his female colleague in the hopes that she’ll sleep with him.”
Um, how many of the books have you read? Because that’s really not gonna happen (for reasons). I didn’t get so much of a Nice Guy vibe as much as a “damn it she’s my colleague” vibe, but I understand why you did.
Ann Somerville: London books…only bought Rivers of London 1 today, so I don’t know if my rec has the same feel or you have already read it, but my hands down favorite London fantasy series is Kate Griffin’s “Angels” series:
http://www.kategriffin.net/books/
Kate Griffin is also Claire North.
recent Gene Wolfe
Pirate Freedom is a must-read, but not the masterwork it could have been, in part, I felt, because like some other works by Wolfe there are certain… missed opportunities, if I can put it that way, with regard to major female characters.
I’ve already said it was a crying shame The Sorcerer’s House was not on the 2011 Hugo ballot. A flawless jewel.
His Home Fires, published in 2011, is simply one of the finest science fiction novels I’ve read in a long time. If some of the people proudly announcing what they have done to neutralize the nefarious Vox Day could please announce that they have bought that book, I will die in peace. Thank you.
The Land Across was extremely enjoyable – but don’t get me started on the women… let’s just say he turns it up to 11 – and it is worth reading Wolfe’s Afterword in which he “breaks character” and addresses his Gentle Readers a la Stephen King. Not to put too fine a point on it, he is not happy with us, and it has some degree of bearing our present predicament.
Go forth, buy Tor, read, and please report back.
EPH
The tragedy of “E Pluribus Hugo” is that it replaces the original goal of excellence – shortlisting the five works that the greatest number of fans identify as among the very best of the year – with the goal of fairness – selecting five works that make the greatest number of interest groups happy, while at the same time penalizing the voter quite harshly for choosing more than one thing should one of them be something that many others also agree should win. The creators, proponents, and cheerleaders will tell you it is not about fairness and nothing will change, but they are shading the truth, deluding themselves, and have not thought it through carefully, respectively.
Kevin Standlee (@10:02am) hasn’t clarified what he means by “spread the votes out smoothly.” Will Kate Paulk “spread the votes out smoothly,” or will her SP4 book group gleefully squabble and debate and try to sway each other as they reach some degree of limited consensus about a bunch of works they share a common interest in? Will NESFA and many many others “spread the votes out smoothly” with shortlists? Will GRRM or Scalzi “spread the votes out smoothly” by plugging the next The Goblin Emperor or Leckie? Will those who don’t buy Tor because they stand with real warrior for social justice and prison chaplain Peter Grant against being called all those terrible things “spread the votes out smoothly”?
Does anyone honestly think Vox Day is going to fight the next war using the strategy of the last one? Of course if there are new nomination rules in 2017 he is going to do something different. Clown shoes or no, he has a few smart people on his side. He may not “capture all five slots” but he and others can still capture a whole lot of them, and if you dare him to he surely he will find new ways to ruin your experience of what should be a joyous fan award.
And do you honestly believe your voting behavior won’t change if 1) you are penalized for selecting a work that already has a reasonable chance of making the ballot because its success sucks the strength from your vote for an equally or more beloved but less-popular work, 2) the field becomes even more politicized than it already is with these culture wars, and/or (presumably and) 3) the “ravening hordes” [andyl @10:58] are amassing at the gates planning a fresh assault? Do you really?
Vastly expanding the number of nominators won’t prevent all “disaster scenarios”, but it is going to help a lot. It also means that the Hugos of the future will never again look like the Hugos of the past. Sorry.
@Jim Henley
“@Octavia: Ace was Ace the Bathound, right?”
I always wanted to write a pastiche of the Dark Knight returns featuring Ace called “The Bark Knight Returns,” which would have occurred contemporaneously to the actual Miller series and end with Ace in battle with Krypto. It would have simultaneously been a meta-analysis of Miller’s work and fun for the kids at the same time.
Doctor Science on June 19, 2015 at 7:36 pm said:
I do think there’s a bit of … hrm … Good Will might be a good way to put it for writers of popular and good books. That could give them a bit of a boost when the voters are confronted with a book not up to the heights of previous works. The Hugo voting, after all, is supposed to return the book with the most consensus behind it (as opposed to first past the post book with the most first place votes, which would have resulted in Feed winning in 2011).
@idontknow: First, that’s the best idea ever. Second, “The Bark Night Returns” is primo roundup-title bait.
Well, I couldn’t resist. I bought Shriek: an Afterword. Also The City and the City so it didn’t get lonely.
idon’tknow: You seem to be constructing these hypothetical fictional types and saying we’re supposed to care about them. But it also seems that you are trying to speak FOR them, and use them, in ways that, as I say, I am reading as “if you’d just be nicer to these people who don’t really understand or know the kind of micro and macro aggressions you’ve faced, they would support you, really!”
I’m turning 60 in a few months.
I work with a whole shitload of straight white men who are clueless.
And after twenty plus years, I’ve stopped tiptoeing around worrying about hurting their feelings because of the harm they cause, all unwitting, because they can’t get their heads out of their own asses sufficiently to understand the realities of systemic oppressions that exist today in the U.S.
I’d rather try to help the people who suffer from those systemic oppressions.
rrede, thank you! The Matthew Swift books look right up my alley. Just bought the first one, so I’ll see how it suits.
I started Charles de Lint’s “Trader” but I killed a fairy (read the ending) and I don’t know if I want to read on. Maybe when I’m feeling braver.
McJulie: Dang, I made a post but perhaps because of too many links it disappeared–but the first part was in response to your question about northwest cons. We just missed each other–I left the Seattle area in 1985 for three years of adjunct work in Boise, Idaho — when I returned, I didn’t attend cons anymore, and soon dropped out of the apa. But glad to have confirmation of the slave auctions (depressing though it is).
@ rrede:
Hmmm. I wound up buying Nicola Griffith’s Hild thanks to certain File 770 commenters…
@rrede
You’re probably right. There’s a reason I call myself idontknow here. It’s because I honestly don’t know. All that I do know is that I really don’t want the world I’ve been apart of since I was 10 years old to fall apart.
Two more Tor books purchased:
A Darker Shade of Magic by Victoria Schwab
Of Noble Family by Mary Robinette Kowal
My contributions to #TheTorYouKnow day, all Nook e-books:
– both volumes of the Heinlein biography
– “The Affinities” by Robert Charles Wilson
– “The Lady Astronaut of Mars” (buying an independent short story is a new thing here)
– “Some Of The Best of Tor.com 2014” which is, at least now, free on Amazon and bn.com
Skimming some of the Heinlein bio provokes the immediate observation that The Great Writer was a contemporary of my grandparents. It reinforces my previous feeling that, while some of the Puppy-participants claim that Heinlein couldn’t be published today, I argue that it is relevant that Heinlein-as-he-was couldn’t exist today — the formative experiences for Heinlein are now completely alien to Americans, almost completely lost to living memory.