aka The Pup Who Circumnavigated Hugoland In A Slate Of His Own Making
The roundup includes Lela E. Buis, Samantha Noll, David Gerrold, Max Florschutz, Vox Day, Alexandra Erin, Jim McCoy, David Mack, Wei Ming Kam, Lis Carey, Pluviann, Chad Orzel, Bonnie McDaniel, Ursula Vernon, May Tree, Laurie Mann and less identifiable others. (Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editors of the day Jim Henley and Alexandra Erin. Update: In case you’re keeping score at home, the subtitle is similar to one previously contributed by DMS, but not identical.)
Lela E. Buis
“SJWs in space” – May 30
The Puppies debate has some interesting facets, and it’s also an unusual opportunity to observe a little human behavior. One of the main accusations of the Puppies’ spokesmen Theodore Beale (aka Vox Day), Brad Torgersen and Larry Correia is that SF&F has been taken over by social justice warriors (aka SJW) who are pushing a liberal and literary agenda while forcing out old fashioned, right-leaning SF&F. I’ve just been reading about social justice, as it turns out. According to Professor Michael Reisch the definition of social justice is fairly open to question. This mutability means that different groups tend to co-opt the activist strategy and organize to advance their own definition of what social justice really is. Clearly, the Puppies have taken on the mantle and have now become social justice warriors, the very thing they have been loving to hate.
Samantha Noll on Dispatches from the Philosophy of Science Association’s Women’s Caucus
“A War of Words and Ideas: Philosophy, Science Fiction, and the Hugo Award Controversy” – May 30
So why is this important for society in general and for philosophers of science in particular? The answer to this question may become clearer when we reflect on why fringe groups are escalating their campaigns in science-fiction and other genres aimed at disenfranchising and silencing entire groups of people. As Kameron Hurley of The Atlantic argues “the truth is that our wars of words and narrative matter, especially those that tell us what sorts of possible futures we can build—and groups like Gamergate, Sad Puppies, and Rabid Puppies understand this.” During a time where the United States is becoming ever more diverse and citizens’ views ever more liberal, the push to suppress this trend is becoming ever more rabid, to appropriately apply Beale’s terminology. Barring those writing from diverse standpoints from receiving formal recognition helps to limit the exposure of these works and thus silences the authors. This is one of the reasons why it is important for those living in a democratic and multicultural society to ensure that those like Beale and Correia are not successful.
David Gerrold on Facebook – May 29
Worldcons, as we know them, have been around since 1939. Hugos have been awarded since 1953
Thousands of people have invested an enormous amount of time and energy into keeping the traditions of the World Science Fiction Convention going. Thousands have invested an enormous amount of time and energy in developing an award system designed to acknowledge excellence in the craft.
No award system is perfect — but it’s hard to argue with a system that has recognized the excellence of Dune, Left Hand Of Darkness, Starship Troopers, Ringworld, The Stars My Destination, Dragonflight, Stand On Zanzibar, Flowers For Algernon, City On The Edge Of Forever, Aye And Gomorrah, Blink, and other works that not only represent the best of the year — they also redefine what’s possible in the genre.
To some extent, there is an element of popularity in the voting. To some extent, there is an element of promotion by publishers and authors. To a larger extent, the problem with the Hugos is that the field has gotten so big and so sprawling that it’s impossible for any fan to be as widely read as in the past. This is why recommended reading lists are a great help.
There’s also a tradition of respect in fandom.
David Gerrold on Facebook – May 29
Some people have advocated going to Amazon and Goodreads and other sites to post one-star reviews of works by authors whose views they oppose.
Please, don’t do it.
It’s a failure of integrity.
If you’ve read the work, then post your honest opinion, good or bad. But punishing an author by down-voting his/her work — that’s not fair to the author, to the work, or to readers who are looking for useful reviews.
If you’re claiming to be one of the good guys, you gotta act like it.
Max Florschutz on Unusual Things
“I’m Not a Fan of Science-Fiction and Fantasy?” – May 30
I may not be a Science-Fiction and Fantasy fan.
Which is shocking. I always thought I was one. But no, according to a lot of these posts and comments I’m seeing and reading, I am not a “fan.” Or, to use the terms that some of the insulars have started to use, I am not a “trufan,” a term which, quite honestly, reminds me quite a bit of the ridiculous amount of self-inflicted (and mostly declarative) segregation in the gaming community between the “PC Master Race” and the “Console Gaming Peasants.” The console gamers aren’t really gamers, you see. They’re just casuals.
Caitlin on Devourer of Words
“Why I am voting for the Hugo Awards this year” – May 30
In general, I am disappointed that a small number of people think they have the right to dictate what the genres of sci-fi and fantasy consist of. In particular, people like Vox Day make me physically ill, and I don’t want promising new authors with awesome new ideas to leave the genre because of them. Vox Day in particular deserves to be defended against: this is a guy who doesn’t believe women should be allowed to vote…
Vox Day onVox Popoli
You know, we’ve wondered who was going to the new Hitler ever since Mahmoud Ahmadinejad proved to be such a washout in that regard. My money was on Putin, so I had absolutely no idea it would turn out to be me. Someone get Hugo Boss on the line, we’re going to need some snappy new outfits for the VFM, stat! Let’s address the issues as Mr. Flint, real deal SJW, puts them forth.
- I don’t share Hitler’s views on race, as I have a basic grasp of human genetics and I am neither a eugenicist nor an Aryan supremacist.
- On the subject of Jews, I am a Zionist who edits and publishes the eminent Israeli military historian Dr. Martin van Creveld.
- I’m not opposed to women learning to read and write. I am opposed to women being encouraged to obtain advanced degrees in the place of husbands and children. Unlike Mr. Flint, I can do the demographic math.
- I don’t support honor killings. I never have.
- I don’t hide what I really believe. Mr. Flint claims to know what I really believe without me ever putting it into words because, and I quote, “peekaboo”. If anyone is “a fucking clown” here, it is observably Mr. Flint.
- I’m not trying to win Hugo Awards. I don’t care about winning awards.
- I have no delusions of grandeur. I’m not the one who keeps running to The Guardian, Entertainment Weekly, The New Zealand Herald, NPR, Popular Science, or the Wall Street Journal to talk about me. I haven’t issued a single press release or called a single member of the media about the Hugo Awards or anything else, for that matter.
- Western civilization is in peril. In large part thanks to idiots like Mr. Flint.
- I don’t like to portray myself with a flaming sword. That was the brainchild of the Star Tribune photographer who was taking pictures of me for a story the paper was doing. Apparently he was onto something, as it’s an image many people have remembered….
Alexandra Erin on Blue Author Is About To Write
“How big is the doghouse?” – May 30
So, Kate Paulk has been tapped as the standard-bearer of next year’s Sad Puppies campaign. She has declared that next year’s Hugo ballot-stuffing initiative will be done in a transparent and democratic manner. This does not fill one with confidence, since Brad Torgersen has made the same claims about this year’s ballot-stuffing initiative.
It also needs to be pointed out that it hardly matters who leads the Sad Puppies campaign or what they do or how they do it, as this year’s otherwise failed campaign only managed to achieve accidental relevance through the fact that the successful Rabid Puppies campaign largely copied and pasted their agenda.
With all that in mind, I have to say that I’m interested in Kate Paulk’s post about what she considers to be Hugo-worthy work only as an academic matter. If the list she assembles using it winds up being the ballot, it will likely be only because someone truly nasty as well as small-minded got behind her and started shoving, as happened this year.
Jim McCoy on Jimbos Awesome SFF Book and Movie Reviews
“Kate Paulk’s ConVent” – May 30
Before I get too far into the book, I wanted to mention Kate’s involvement with the Sad Puppies. She is next year’s evil, evil, evil ringleader. If you support evil, mean people who evilly think that you should evilly vote for good fiction written by evil people who evilly put story over message (because they’re evil) she’s worth supporting. Oh, and her book also kicks ass, but we’ll get to that in a minute. I just wanted to take a minute to give evil praise to Her Evilness, The Duchess of Snark. Does that make me evil? Probably. I’m OK with that. Now, onto the book.
Vox Day on Vox Popoli
“The Ones Who Walk Away from Fandom” – May 30
It’s more than a little amusing. And those who walk away are the wise ones, because, as it has been sung:
Never kick a dog
Because it’s just a pup
You’d better run for cover when the pup grows up!
A Rabid Puppy #Hugo nominee put a sample in the awards packet that features direct insults to me & my work. Can I have my SJW badge now?
— David Mack (@DavidAlanMack) May 31, 2015
Wei Ming Kam on Fantasy Faction
“The pros and cons of the voting processes behind major SFF awards: Part 2” – May 31
This year, there is reportedly a massive upsurge in people buying supporting memberships of Sasquan, so basically people want to vote in the awards but have no interest in going to the con. Normally, the number of people who vote in the awards is small, so it’s reasonable to say that the upsurge is a result of the resentful manchildren making this year’s awards political. SADFACE. SAD SASQUATCH SADFACE.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
“The Revenge of Hump Day–Hugo Nominated Best Fanzine” – May 31
It’s all perfectly competently and clearly written. I’m sure it’s well-received by its intended audience. On the other hand, I don’t see any exceptional excellence.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
This one I did not expect to like. I got a surprise. It’s intelligent, thoughtful, does some really interesting things, and Suzie, as an adult, is a librarian, and a well-done librarian is always a win for me, Yes, it’s self-indulgent. So sue me.
Pluviann on The Kingfishers Nest
“On a Spiritual Plain – Lou Antonelli” – May 30
Imagine a great caravan of giant aliens travelling across a bleak and open plain, above them the most glorious auroral display fills the sky, and travelling with them is a human chaplain on a segway enclosed by faraday cage. This image comes from Lou Antonelli’s ‘On a Spiritual Plain’ and it deserves fanart. It’s the best part of the short story, and the idea of a faraday segway in particular really tickled me.
Award-Winning Reading
“Best Fan Artist” – May 28
Fun fact: I almost voted No Award for this entire category. Now I’m voting for Elizabeth Leggett and No Award for everything else. I went looking at each nominees website to make sure that I was looking at everything that is award eligible. Ninni Aalto, Brad W. Foster and Steve Stiles all have similar styles (to my very untrained eye) that just does not appeal to me. Add in that I didn’t find the subject matter that interesting, and there is no reason for me to vote for any of them. I like that Spring Schoenhuth’s work consists mostly of jewelry. I don’t really recognize most of it though, and again the style doesn’t really appeal to me, so I won’t vote for her.
Award Winning Reading
“Totaled by Kary English” – May 29
There is some science talk in this story, but it was unobtrusive and easy to understand. It was just enough to give the story weight without pulling attention away from the storyline. The writing is beautiful. Descriptive, but concise. It really drew me into the story in a way that I was not expecting.
Award-Winning Reading
“On a Spiritual Plain by Lou Antonelli” – May 28
I liked the writing style. Not overly wordy but descriptive enough to ground the reader. I do also like that the story made me confront the idea that I decided what the story was about when I was halfway through and then got mad when it didn’t follow like I thought it should. While I’m a bear to be around when that happens, I like to be reminded that authors can do whatever they please without catering to my idea of what it should be.
Chad Orzel on Uncertain Principles
“Hugo Reading: Not-Novels” – May 30
In the short fiction categories, two of the longer nominees were weirdly incomplete. “Flow” by Arlan Andrews and “Championship B’Tok” by Edward Lerner are perfectly fine, but just… stop. I wouldn’t object to reading more in either setting, say if these were the introductory chapters of longer novels, but as self-contained stories, they’re kind of lacking.
“The Triple Sun: A Golden Age Tale” by Rajnar Vajra is a complete alien-contact story, and good enough in a Heinlein-pastiche sort of vein. It’s maybe a little shaggy, but it’s enjoyable enough. “The Day the World Turned Upside Down” by Thomas Olde Heuvelt is kind of stupid and pointless, featuring a world where gravity literally reverses itself after the narrator gets dumped. I’m not sure it’s all that much more stupid and pointless than last year’s “The Water That Falls On You From Nowhere,” though, and that ended up winning, so…
“A Single Samurai” by Steven Diamond is built around the nice image of a samurai climbing up the back of a mountain-sized monster in an attempt to kill it, but doesn’t quite pay off, and the bits where the narrator explains samurai stuff were kind of tedious. “Totaled” by Kary English may have been the best of the lot, a brain-in-a-vat story that had some genuine emotional content.
I don’t think any of these are brilliant, but I didn’t find any of them strikingly awful, either (“The Day The World Turned Upside Down” comes closest, but remained at “sigh heavily but keep reading” rather than “close the file and move on to the next thing”). I suspect there were probably better stories out there, but I say that almost every year that I read the short-fiction nominees, so…
Adult Onset Atheist
“Don’t crush THAT Hugo, hand me the SNARL” – May 30
Decades later I would find out that “Don’t Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers” did not barely lose out to “No Award”, and that “Blows Against the Empire “ by Jefferson Starship had actually come in second place. I know that the Jefferson Starship supergroup that put out “Blows Against the Empire” was not really the same band that “Built This City” in 1985 (“Worst song of the 80s” by a Rolling Stone Reader’s poll), but the fact that they had the same name, and several of the same members, makes me think it was better that “No Award” won in that year. In addition to the dubious distinctions of most “No Award” winners, and for propelling films like “Flesh Gordon” (nominated 1975) to prominence, the Best Dramatic Presentation has been a place where stories too far ahead of their time could be reconsidered in a digested visual format some of the members of fandom could better relate to.
Bonnie McDaniel on Red Headed Femme
“The Hugo Project: ‘Wisdom From My Internet’” – May 30
I picked “Wisdom From My Internet” to review first, mainly to see if all the rumblings I’ve heard about it are true, and it is indeed the worst thing to disgrace the ballot in decades.
May I be perfectly frank for a moment?
Great Cthulhu, kill me now.
What the hell is this shit?
I really don’t want to hurt Michael Z. Williamson’s feelings, but I’m afraid it’s going to be unavoidable.
Ah, sweet internet, where I waste hundreds of hours trying desperately to set people on fire WITH MY MIND.
— Kingfisher & Wombat (@UrsulaV) May 29, 2015
May Tree in a comment on File 770 – May 29
Voting for Noms On a Summer Evening
Whose noms these are I think I know.
His blog is quite a silly show;
He will not see me stopping here
His lousy choices to forego.My Siamese Cat must think it queer
To stop without a Hugo near
But I must set aside this slate
And vote again another year.These stories, at best second-rate,
Were stuffed by Pups (and GamerGate?!)
The rockets they would try to sweep
Their wounded egos to inflate.The Puppy Poop is much too deep,
My sanity I’ll have to keep,
And “No Award” before I sleep,
And “No Award” before I sleep.
Laurie Mann on Facebook – May 30
This is not a joke. This group, Snarky Puppy, is playing in the INB Theater 3 months after the Hugo Awards are presented in the same building. http://www.inbpac.com/event.php?eventID=270
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Whym
Your text looked great to me, but, as I have already confessed, notwithstanding the fact that I passed exams qualifying me in Latin, French, German, and English, I’m only good at English.
I am a lousy linguist; nevertheless, I am a lot better than VD at Latin. Frankly, if I, in my incompetent way, am a lot better than him, then I think we can safely dispense with his claim to be trilingual.
I flunked out of Latin and I still know enough to see what’s wrong with Theodore Beale’s use of it.
Houndation
Also Poundation. and Houndation and Whimper
Have you forgotten who you’re dealing with?
The puppies would be too afraid of girl cooties to touch a story called “NANCY DREW IN SPACE” – they could only read it if it was a “HARDY BOYS IN SPACE”.
Peace
I came very close to flunking out; fortunately the geese came to my rescue in the final exam. I’d found that story interesting so I had actually translated it myself; this is incredibly useful if one of the exam questions is ‘translate the geese’.
As for VD the guy is a poseur; he wants people to think he’s got amazing abilities, without ever displaying them. He reminds me of L Ron Hubbord, creating Scientology, but I don’t think VD has any chance of achieving his success.
He was obviously thinks this is unfair, particularly because all we see in him is the mindset of a drive by troll…
(Though come to think of it, “Hardy Boys in Space” was pretty well parodied by Harry Harrison 42 years ago as Star Smashers of the Galactic Rangers.
I guess the puppie taste in SF was mockable at least that long ago.)
Ann Somerville: “a shout out to the clever people at Fail Fandom Anon for their continuing coverage of the discussions”
“Coverage” makes it sound as if they were adding value.
Jim Henley, no, nothing in the Hugo rules requires a Dramatic Presentation to have a video component. The award goes to a “production … in any medium of dramatized science fiction, fantasy or related subjects”. Although the award has never gone to anything which wasn’t either a movie or on television, audio-only productions have been nominated several times, as well as a slide show.
Morris Keesan: “Jim Henley, no, nothing in the Hugo rules requires a Dramatic Presentation to have a video component.”
Quite right. And I took a quick look at the link — would definitely swear it won’t run afoul of the other rule about being eligible in any other category!
Whym:
>>Houndation>>
Going to Main:
>>Houndation and Whimper>>
Saddened Houndation
Houndation’s Itch
Houndation and Arf
Pee-lude to Houndation
Howlward the Houndation
As You know
Grat catch!
Frankly, I do not think puppydum could survive the discovery that before they came along people were laughing at them…
That should have been ‘Great Catch”
Mike: ““Coverage” makes it sound as if they were adding value.”
I consider that they do, actually. They have their own links and discussions, which I find at least, if not more, interesting as anything you host here.
Sorry if that bothers you.
Watching you gamma rabbits having a discussion with those white supremacists albeit indirectly on different blogs about how to interpret The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas wipes out any reservation I might have had.
I agree with Lois Tilton and Laura Resnick that the puppies have likely peaked in the sense of getting lots and lots of that stuff on the ballot, though whether or not they have reached a fan award perihelion some have a couple more orbits before all geothermal activity ceases so I wouldn’t consider them ancient history quite yet.
Going Clear: I loved MMFR but if you guys can organize to place Noah Ward over two whole slates and can’t find it in yourselves to campaign for a terrific film about Scientology, I’m going to be disappointed again.
I still trying to decide if I like Those Who Walk the Dogs in Omelas.
Ann Somerville: I find Fandomfailanon’s discussion of Sad Puppies and the Hugos has pretty much the same virtues and vices as the comments here, except (1) that I have even less idea who the participants are, and (2) a lot of it is just flinging poo at identififable people who participate here. And isn’t that brave.
(And with that recommendation everyone will now rush over to read FFA, so you can thank me for that…)
Brian Z: this is the closest you get to a campaign from outside of the puppy encampments “have you heard about Going Clear?”, “you should totally see Going Clear!”. And the discussion, above, about which category it should be nominated in, if people chose to nominate it.
Some people will make comments about things they’re intending to nominate, some people consider that a bit dodgy.
Is “gamma rabbits” an insult? It sounds kind of like high-energy lagomorphs to me …
“Best related,” in addition to being the place to nominate art collections, biographies, and criticism of sf and fantasy, seems to have a certain “those included in this classification” tone. It’s the category that has included graphic novels (before they got their own Hugo) and cookbooks.
My impression is that yes, the administrators don’t like category-shopping, but they’ll deal with it by grouping things in the most relevant category. If a documentary is nominated for both “dramatic presentation, long form” and “best related work,” they’d decide which fit better, add up its nominations in both categories, and see whether it had enough to make the final ballot in the more appropriate category. (This more often comes up with the length of written fiction, because most readers don’t count words when filling out their ballots, so a novelette may get nominations in short story, or vice versa. )
Doctor science: now I’m going to picture Gamma Rabbits as a cross between the Hulk and the Maxx.
Watching you gamma rabbits having a discussion with those white supremacists albeit indirectly on different blogs about how to interpret The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas wipes out any reservation I might have had.
I… what? JCW’s not a white supremacist, I don’t think, and I wasn’t talking about Vox. Is this serious, or is this a deliberate troll? I am legitimately confused.
The commonly accepted traits of rabbits are sexual stamina and frequency.
Mike: “I find Fandomfailanon’s discussion of Sad Puppies and the Hugos has pretty much the same virtues and vices as the comments here, except (1) that I have even less idea who the participants are, and (2) a lot of it is just flinging poo at identififable people who participate here. And isn’t that brave.”
Considering that you have people here flinging poo at others who are not participants at all – eg Rick Moen attacking me when I had never posted here – your complaints about a self-advised anon meme seem a bit misguided.
Same virtues and vices? Not true. There is 100% less Mamatas, Moen, Kratman and VD. Plus there’s a perspective there which I appreciate above what I read here, a lack of blowhards throwing their wait around on the basis of alleged seniority in the genre, and a lot more female participation.
Being snotty about FFA is something of a badge of honour among certain SFF cliques. I’m sorry to find you share that. Considering the work it’s done to help expose people like RequiresHate, and other abusers, (and to support their victims) it deserves a lot more respect.
However, you can continue thinking what you think, and I will continue to think as I do. Your opinion on me or what I read is of no importance to me whatsoever.
Oh now I’m in moderation?
Oh, and being a trickster in African myth and Looney Tunes.
Read a couple of reviews of Seveneves and one thing that concerned me was both reviewers talking about the opening premise being completed around the 600 page mark. The F’n book should be finished after 600 pages, not just hitting its stride!
Ann: thats probably just a random flare up of the comment filters, I think pretty much all of us have had a comment or two land in the “your comment is awaiting moderation” status from time to time. More frequently if we’re mentioning Tom Kr*tman.
Going to Maine,
I… what? JCW’s not a white supremacist, I don’t think, and I wasn’t talking about Vox. Is this serious, or is this a deliberate troll? I am legitimately confused.
“Gamma rabbits” goes back to the Great Vox-Scalzi Troll Wars that we learned about around the campfire – people called people names and it escalated, or something, I don’t really remember. “White supremacists” dates back two months to when John Wright got upset for being called that by Cory Doctorow during Holy Week and having it get picked up by the mainstream media and decided not to decline any of his record six Hugo nominations. So you can read: “It is nice to see people who otherwise despise each other having a conversation about literature.”
Tintinaus: I’ve always thought that Stephenson could do with an editor who will push him every step of the way to keep his books compact. Sadly for me, his success seems to have lead to immunity to editors.
Tintinaus,
The F’n book should be finished after 600 pages, not just hitting its stride!
Not for Neal Stephenson. Thank god for ebooks though. I had to actually lug Anathem around with me until I finished it.
Ann Somerville: “Oh now I’m in moderation?”
I guess I’m the only one who got a good laugh out of that comment posting immediately, but I enjoyed it.
Yes, I can see my opinion of you is of no importance whatsoever. I assure you I am completely convinced.
As to FFA having “a lot more female participation” — I don’t seem to be any better than Breq at telling the gender of people on FFA from the external evidence. Perhaps it’s less anonymous to you than it is to me?
“As far as I can tell, Wright lacks self-awareness, doesn’t comprehend subtext and has no moral compass. I think he may have had some inkling (sorry, couldn’t resist it) of that last point, and instead of working on it, chose instead the path of the ‘more Catholic than the Pope’ convert. The difficulty is that the Pope is Francis who finds much of what Wright asserts to be morally repugnant.”
This quote is such nonsense. If you spend any time on his blog (or even read his excerpts quoted here) it is clear Wright is moved by a very strong, clearly defined moral compass. True his moral compass does not always align with (for example) mine, but it is ridiculous to claim it isn’t there. And on what basis do you claim to know why he chose Catholicism?
Can we leave unfounded assertions, assumptions, and character judgments to the puppies please?
“And VD has a fit of the vapours whenever the very thought of women working is forced upon him;”
Why do you lie about these things?
Can you point to one thing he has written that indicates a fit of vapors about women working rather than him providing an analysis of trends around women in the workforce and the impact on men’s wages of women in the workforce?
Not that women in the workforce affects me since I am in the STEM field (software engineering.) I see much more competition from other men.
Can you point to one thing he has written that indicates a fit of vapors about women working rather than him providing an analysis of trends around women in the workforce and the impact on men’s wages of women in the workforce?
Observe: a question that answers itself. That’s some good rhetoric.
Ann Somerville: By the way, even though we’re having this little set-to at the moment, I enjoy having your participation here. And no, you’re not in moderation, that was a byproduct of you including a name that experience shows I need to keep a close eye on.
Not that women in the workforce affects me since I am in the STEM field (software engineering.) I see much more competition from other men.
Yes, it’s good that the lack of women in the workforce doesn’t affect someone in a workforce that has both a paucity of women and obvious problems with sexism. What a relief.
Beyond Anon:
Here’s VD having multiple “fits of the vapors” about women working.
Fit 1: Society doesn’t need you getting a degree in Communications or Business or Peruvian Basket-weaving. It doesn’t need you getting a STEM degree or learning to program so you can compete with cheap H1B imports from India. Society doesn’t need you working at a local/state/federal government job in order to feed your four cats. Society doesn’t need you “finding yourself” by jumping on the ALPHA carousel for ten years, then jumping off and trying to stick the landing with BETA in the three-year fertility window you’ve left yourself. Society doesn’t need you trying to prove you’re just as good as a low-performing, ineffectual man. Society needs you to be a) a woman, b) a wife, and c) a mother.
Fit 2: Women destroy every institution they enter, so it should come as no surprise that their involvement outside the family is a good metric for cultural collapse.
Fit 3: ‘ve commented in the past about the insanity of any society that prioritizes the education of its women over preparing them to be wives and mothers. After all, the one and only thing any society actually NEEDS from its women, the one and only thing humanity actually needs from its female members, is for them to propagate the citizenry and the species. Powerpoint presentations and prospective cancer cures are all very nice, but they are, strictly speaking, unnecessary luxuries without which the species has survived since before the dawn of recorded human history.
Fit 4: First of all, as a young woman studying engineering, you have very likely been granted special favors whether you know it or not. All those programs designed to encourage young women like you to pursue a career in engineering exist for a reason. And the reason is that most women just don’t enjoy engineering the way men do. You’re obviously smart, you can do the schoolwork, but it is unlikely that you will want to do the real thing for very long. Assuming you don’t drop out in favor of an easier discipline before you graduate, the probabilities indicate that you won’t spend much time actually working as an engineer; you’ll soon be moved into some sort of management or marketing position. Whether you have been told as much or not, that is the conventional path for smart, educated women like you in the corporate world.
More of Fit 4: I do believe women should have the same legal rights and protections afforded to unborn children. There is no contradiction there. You see, I don’t believe that unborn children should be given the right to vote or permitted to murder other unborn children either.
I understand you have your own goals. That’s fine. The problem is that women are not only valuable to society, they are invaluable. They are necessary. The one and only thing both society and the human race actually need from you is for you to marry and raise children. If you’re not going to do that, then it really doesn’t matter if you’re going to become a human resources manager with an engineering degree or drop out of school and become a stripper. If you’re only going to do what any man of similar capabilities can do, then you are an evolutionary dead end and as unimportant to society as the average man is.
Fit 5: VP commenter: no your article suggested an increase in rapes was less harmful than women handing out resumes. Insensitive & absurd
VD: I didn’t suggest it, I proved it. By what metric do you claim that rape is more harmful to society than women working?
Fit 6: The women of America would do well to consider whether their much-cherished gains of the right to vote, work, murder and freely fornicate are worth destroying marriage, children, civilized Western society and little girls. They can at least console themselves with the thought that, in the long run, it doesn’t matter what they do, because the women’s-rights ideology is an evolutionary dead end, and it is increasingly apparent that societies embracing it will not survive.
Yeah, these are wordy, pseudo-intellectual fits, but they’re fits nevertheless.
VD has a real problem with understanding that economics isn’t zero sum, between the Scalzi book deal and woman working.
ULTRAGOTHA: here are the first two paragraphs of Ancillary Sword:… Can someone please tell me how that sets the reader up for a Fantasy vibe? Anyone?
You missed Doctor Science’s epiphany the other day, when she was successfully able to translate for the rest of us:
Doctor Science: omg, I figured out why Kate P. was confused by AJ:
By “the signalling” she means that the opening scene, because it has *snow* and a *tavern*, signaled to her that this was “fantasy-adventure”. Which never takes place with spaceships.
Holy cow. I would *love* to get her to say what makes the prose “clunky”. It probably means “too sophisticated”, but I’m not sure …
@Anne Somerville –
Indeed, as those who walk away not only are forsaking the security and plenty, they also have no real idea what the “rest of the world” is like, for they have been in Omelas only.
They are, yes, the bravest, and with conscience. It may be a guilty conscience, knowing what their prior comfort cost, but at least they are willing to recognize that there is a higher ground they must strive for. And they know that, even if they rescue the child, the rest of the city will find another child, and another cellar, so they can again have their comfort and security.
In many ways Leguin’s writing is structured like that of a form of poetry, where each reader needs to take their own context to put the writing into.
Some may see it as allegorical to the theological theme of the scapegoat being the recipient of pollution /sin. Another theological view would be the sacrifice of Christ in atonement for evils of the world (“…who takes away the sins of the world”). I would differ for this interpretation , as the sacrifice of Christ is willing, and publicly declaimed, not hidden away in darkness and guilt, and is not actually repeated each generation, as only the commemoration is .
Or, as someone else noted, the child in the cellar could be symbolic of the toll forced upon weaker nations/citizens/less empowered classes for the betterment of the situation off the more affluent/privileged in a society.
Or it could be symbolic of the scapegoating of the less-favored child, in order to give privilege to the “golden child” in many dysfunctional families, even the willing scapegoating that goes on in those families as the pattern of co-dependence emerges, where the children or spouses or abused parents ask themselves, “what could I have done to make this better? What did I do to earn this anger? How can I be better, to take away *their* pain?”
That VD and Wright see only the opportunity to exploit the weakness says, to me, that there are huge blind spots in their worldviews.
And, yes, for both of them, I think that there’s a huge amount of sour grapes being labeled, as those two must be wailing that they can never hope to come anywhere near the human insight, and writing talent, that Leguin has.
Oneiros: Also, the pronoun thing is pretty blunt force. I’d be surprised to learn that she didn’t expect people to be talking about it. Maybe not to the extent that they have, though…
Leckie comments on her reaction to the big stir about gender in her book here and here.
>> First of all, as a young woman studying engineering, you have very likely been granted special favors whether you know it or not.>>
But the fact that white men doing anything have very likely been granted special favors whether they know it or not just doesn’t concern him much, presumably because to him it’s proper and right.
Don’t the magazines that contain them have their length classification?
Mike Glyer: Nick Mamatas posted in a comment a few days ago —
LOCK-IN Bookscanned ~10,500 is hardcover since August 2014.
REDSHIRTS Bookscanned ~18,150 since June of 2012.
Someone on Twitter was looking for this. I don’t have a Twitter account because I can’t trust myself not to fly off the handle… But maybe this will get back to them.
I think one of Mamatas’ numbers is wrong. The Bookscan total for Redshirts at the beginning of April was 32,000.
Also, the 10,500 for Lock In hardcover hasn’t moved in recent months. So I think that number means it’s Sold Out of its initial run (probably set at 10,000 + 500 for Scalzi to sign), and that there may be unsold copies at retailers, but the publisher/distributer doesn’t have any remaining unsold copies.
>> Don’t the magazines that contain them have their length classification?>>
Not always, no.
Plus, keep in mind that not all stories get published in magazines. I’ve had three short stories published in anthologies, which didn’t list word length or award category.
kdb
Brian Z.: Watching you gamma rabbits… but if you guys can organize to place Noah Ward over two whole slates
Well, well, Brian has finally come out as full Puppy.
Newsflash: no one has “organized” to place “No Award” over two whole slates. A lot of people are making the choice on their own to use “No Award”, either to indicate the unacceptability of slates, or to indicate the poor quality of the slated works (both of which are, as others have pointed out, for the most part functionally indistinguishable).
But no one has organized others to do this, and claiming that anyone has is just more Puppy Rhetorick.
@Brian
Nobody has to “organize,” thank you. The quality, or rather the lack thereof, of the slated works speak for themselves. I’ve been reading the bloody things; I know.
Believe me, I will nominate next year, and hopefully in some small way make up for this year.
Craig R., that was a beautiful analysis of the many layers of TOWWAFO, thank you very much.
Two things occurred to me while reading your thoughts. First, I suspect in addition to a mainstream Christian interpretation I wonder if there also might be a current of Gnosticism running through the story. Second, did John Wright see only opportunity to exploit weakness? I understood his perspective to be that although Le Guin produced a well-crafted philosophical meditation, he found it story flawed because it presented an artificial choice between doing nothing and walking away. (Of course, in the context of his RPG story, the idea of putting your players in the Omeli’s shoes by bribing them to do nothing is brilliant.)
JJ’s comment is a perfect demonstration of why I didn’t give the Nerds of the Feather guy any numbers. (That is, outside of the basic issue that Bookscan isn’t a public resource. You want the numbers on demand, pay for ’em. Don’t snap your fingers at me.)
Most people don’t understand book sales, don’t understand numbers, and when they see a sentence with a number in it they only look at the number. (There is a widespread fascination with “hard numbers” from people who don’t have access to any, for Puppy and Anti-Puppy alike.) The Redshirts number cited above is for the *hardcover*, just like the Lock-In number is. One can and should only compare like with like, and those numbers were posted in response to a claim by some pseud that on average Lock-In in hardcover was selling less well than Redshirts did when it debuted as a hardcover on a monthly basis, and this is why Tor wasn’t going to play with Scalzi anymore. (Naturally, a few days later the $3.4 million-dollar Tor/Scalzi deal made the New York Times.)
Bookscan also provides weekly numbers—for the last thirteen weeks, the Lock-In hardcover has sold a fair number of copies on Bookscan. Probably more than 1000 in hc, if one does the basic math of at least doubling most Bookscan numbers.
Newsflash: no one has “organized” to place “No Award” over two whole slates.
Whether one “has to” or not, among the first hits that come up when you google the whole affair are things like “The Puppy Free Voter’s Guide” – but in point of fact what I was actually saying was it would be a crying shame if lots of people raved about Mad Max and completely forgot to mention that there was that great documentary about L Ron Hubbard.
Believe me, I will nominate next year, and hopefully in some small way make up for this year.
It is terrific that so many people are motivated to nominate. If more than a tiny fraction (much less than a tenth – there are no hard numbers) of eligible voters had read and nominated short fiction, we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.
>> Well, well, Brian has finally come out as full Puppy.>>
No, he’s just clueless. He probably thought that by using insults in both directions at once, it’d seem chummy and good-spirited, instead of people being insulted by the one directed at them to the point that they didn’t realize his intent.
Plus, he genuinely doesn’t get the fact that the non-Puppies aren’t organized, no matter how many times he sees different so-called leaders advocate different things, or stress that people should do whatever they feel right. He’s convinced, in his heart, that the Puppies have a grievance everyone else should address, even if nothing in his head really backs it up, so he keeps talking as if it’s true and then being confused and hurt when people don’t admit it and don’t get his oblique suggestions that depend on the cabal being real, at least in some form.