We’ll split the Scroll again today. Guess which part this is!
(1) NOMINEE STATEMENT. For those who are interested, Cora Buhlert sent a link to “What Price Humanity?” author David VanDyke’s statement regarding his nomination at Kboards.
Re: KBoarder David VanDyke is a Hugo Award Finalist
Thanks everyone.
I wrote this bit and posted in the other thread before I saw this one, so I’ll copy-paste it here:
As we poker players say, I’ve tried to put myself into a position to get lucky, and it seems I have. Or, as another quote goes, it takes years to become an overnight success. I submitted a story to a Jerry Pournelle anthology (There Will Be War X), got accepted, then suddenly got nominated for a Hugo in a relatively easier category (novelette – novels, novellas and short stories seem much more competitive), and boom, somebody notices me after 4 years and 25 books as an indie…
I’ll be going to WorldCon in KC, but I don’t think I have a snowball’s chance of winning…not with a Stephen King novelette in there. But the nom is nice, and the networking will be nice.
…and for those who might wonder, I’m apolitical about the whole Hugo process and on nobody’s side. I just submitted a story to one of the grand masters of military sci-fi and it got picked up for the anthology, and then nominated. That’s it. No investment in puppies, kitties, gerbils, tortoises or other animals. I’m not really a joiner of special interest groups or parties anyway. Hopefully my work stands on its own.
Thanks again for all the well-wishing.
(2) MORE VOTING ADVICE. WTF Pancakes makes a modest suggestion in “Hugo Awards 2016: Geez, not this shit again”.
I’ve read suggestions that this year’s troll-fest was a direct response to the Hugo voters’ failure to reward the Puppies to force the voters to give them trophies even if the voters didn’t actually believe they were deserved. No, really, that’s the argument (although it was phrased slightly differently.) The desire, then, is to receive an award, regardless of merit. The sort of thing that Puppy authors might call “affirmative action.”
Fortunately, I have a solution which I think every reasonable person will agree is wise and just: If what the Puppies really want is recognition, then simply reward every Puppy candidate with a “participant” award. You know, the kind they give to grade school children when you don’t want anyone to feel bad. This way, the Chuck Tingles and John C. Wrights of the world can have their recognition without having to try to abuse the nomination process. Then, simply discard any nominations which match the slate proposed by the Rabid Puppies. Problem solved…for a little while at least…maybe.
(3) IT’S DEAD JIM. Joe Follansbee conducts the autopsy in “The Hugo Awards are dead, and the xPuppies killed them”.
All this wouldn’t matter, except for the fact that science fiction readers worldwide depend on the Hugo Awards as a mark of quality. While some of the xPup-inees are worthy, such as Neal Stephenson’s Seveneves, and sci-fi master Jerry Pournelle for his editing, the nomination ballot-stuffing by the xPuppies has permanently damaged the Hugos’ credibility. How can any discerning reader look at the phrase “Hugo Award-nominated” or “Hugo Award-winning,” not think of Butt Invasion, and not drop the potential purchase like a hot potato?
Likewise, how can any publisher associate itself with these kinds of brand-threatening shenanigans? They’re risk-averse enough as it is. Why take the chance with printing the Hugo rocket ship logo on its project without thinking of two years’ worth of Hugo train wrecks?
A second year of “No Award” winners will put the final nails into the Hugos’ coffin because it would demonstrate readers’ lack of faith in the award.
Hope is not completely lost, however. WorldCon, which manages the Hugos, has a chance to fix the problem with proposed nominations rules changes, though they won’t take effect until 2017, assuming they’re approved. If not, they might as well kill the awards program altogether. No one will believe in it anymore.
(4) TOO GRAPHIC. GamerGate Life responds to its nomination.
Some comic strip characters discover they’ve been nominated for the #HugoAwards https://t.co/flxpJD96i0
— Robot Archie???????????????????? (@RobotArchie) April 28, 2016
(5) AH SWEET. Russell Newquist boosts the Castalia House signal in “The Perversion of Science Fiction and Fantasy Fandom”.
The 2016 Hugo Awards are important, and not for any of that. There is a critical message this year that far exceeds anything else to do with the Hugos. It boils down to two specific works, both of which have been nominated in the “Best Related Work” category:
The first is “Safe Space as Rape Room: Science Fiction Culture and Childhood’s End.” Written by Daniel Eness for the Castalia House blog. The second is “The Story of Moira Greyland” by Moira Greyland.
These two works are not just the most important published works of the science fiction community of 2015. They are the most important works of this millennium….
(6) DEJA HUGO. Jim C. Hines presents his thoughts about the Hugos, and the difference between anger and abuse, in “A Few Hugo Requests”.
2. No asterisks, please.
I did make a crack about asterisks and the Hugo last year after the trophy was released. And I think a lot of people had a mental asterisk over the whole thing, because let’s be honest, last year was anything but normal for the Hugo awards. So yeah, I definitely get it.
But at last year’s Hugo award ceremony, they handed out wooden asterisk plaques, and later sold additional wooden asterisks.
I don’t believe this was done with malicious intent (though I obviously can’t read anyone’s minds). Maybe it was an attempt at humor, and/or to acknowledge the elephant in the room. I appreciate that the sale of the asterisks raised several thousand dollars for a good cause.
Whatever the intentions, it resulted in a lot of people feeling hurt and attacked. I know from experience how nerve-wracking a Hugo ceremony can be in a normal year. Last year, and this year, tensions and anxieties and fears are exponentially higher. And for many of the people in attendance, the asterisks felt like a big old slap in the face.
Like I said, I don’t think that was the intention. (Others will disagree, and have gleefully pointed to the asterisks as “proof” that “the other side” is evil and nasty.) In this case, I don’t think intention matters so much as the impact it had, including hurting some good, talented people.
(7) THE ESTIMATE. Rocket Stack Rank’s Gregory N. Hullender attempts an “Analysis of Slate Voting for the 2016 Hugos”.
Overview
I estimate there were about 205 “Rabid Puppies” this year, essentially identical to the estimated 204 Sad+Rabid puppies last year. The reason they did so well despite a doubling of the number of “organic” votes is that they managed much better slate discipline this year; last year, not everyone voted for all five candidates nor in every category, but this year it seems they did….
(8) THOUGHTS THUNK WHILE THINKING. How come nearly everybody titles their post “Thoughts on the Hugo Nominations”? Like Anthony M at the Hugo-nominated Superversive SF blog who is thoroughly okay with the reason that happened, so why should you have any problem?
Does this bother anybody? It shouldn’t. It doesn’t bother me. We’ve been growing a fanbase since we started, and the fact that the Sads AND the Rabids both had us on their lists does mean we’re leaving a mark. I don’t believe we were picked as a parody, for the simple reason that Castalia likes our work enough to give us a weekly column on their increasingly popular blog. An anthology unassociated with us recently opened up submissions for superversive stories. We’re doing very well, and this only gets us more exposure. This is great!
And yet, if we weren’t on the Rabid Puppies slate, we still probably wouldn’t be on the Hugo shortlist. So why doesn’t this bother me? My answer is simple: I agree with what Vox Day is doing.
(9) MY HUGO NOMINATED PONY. At anthropomorphic fiction blog Fayrah, Brendan Kachel reacts: “’My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic’ episodes nominated for 2016 Hugo Awards as part of ‘Rabid Puppies’ slate”.
However, furries and bronies perhaps shouldn’t celebrate so soon; last year’s Hugo Awards were pretty controversial, and this year is apparently the sequel.
Looks like the ponies are actually Trojan horses. For puppies.
The Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies are “slates” of nominees designed to abuse a loophole in the Hugo Awards rules by which a group of voters can assure nominations for a pre-approved set of nominees by agreeing to vote for them. These slates were begun in order to fight what they describe as “political correctness” (and opponents would describe as “progressive social stances”) in the works nominated and winning at the Hugos. The politics of those running the “puppies” slate are frequently described as “neo-conservative;” the founder of the Rabid Puppies, Vox Day, is described by Wikipedia as a “white supremacist.” And the My Little Pony episodes were on his list.
The obvious question is how a children’s television show like My Little Pony (one created by feminist Lauren Faust known for its progressive themes, no less) came to be associated with someone like Vox Day. Part of the answer may be that Day is looking to further embarrass the Hugo Awards, especially after none of his slate won an award last year (even in categories where his slate swept the nominees, “No Award Given” received the most votes, leaving many categories unrewarded), and perhaps figured a nomination for a cartoon about magical horses was an embarrassment. This year, one of his short story selections was “Space Raptor Butt Invasion” by Chuck Tingle, a story of what Wikipedia delicately calls “niche erotica” (and, yes, is exactly what it sounds like). Or perhaps Day is just a legitimate fan of both ponies and “niche erotica”, after all.
However, the two episodes in question were praised by conservative sources as “anti-Marxist”, which may be on point about the episodes in question (and, admittedly, the show, being based on a toy line, can hardly be called anti-capitalist), but hardly holds up as a valid interpretation of the show’s ethos overall.
(10) DEDUCTIONS. Barry Deutsch at Alas! A Blog has his thinking cap on, too: “Hugo Nominations Are Out, And The Rabid Puppies Dominated The List. A Few Thoughts”.
1) My guess is that we’ll see Noah Ward win on at least a couple of categories this year, but most categories will have a named winner.
2) Next year, assuming the voters at this year’s Worldcon agree to this, there will be a change in the Hugo vote-counting rules – E Pluribus Hugo – which might reduce the ability of a minority of slate voters to game the process and unfairly dominate Hugo nominations. Early data may indicate that EPH won’t make as large a difference as people are hoping. If further changes are necessary to prevent the Rabid Puppies from gaming the system to dominate nominations, I expect further changes will be made.
3) By a wide margin, more people voted to nominate works for the Hugos in 2016 than in any prior year. And the Rabid Puppies still dominated the outcome. If there are hundreds of possible nominees, and if most nominators vote honestly, then a small group of slate voters can overpower the large majority of honest voters. I hope that this result will persuade people who have been saying “all’s that’s needed is for more people to nominate” to change their minds.
(11) PATRICK NIELSEN HAYDEN.
https://twitter.com/pnh/status/725841445291216896
(12) ALTERNATE AWARDS. Adam-Troy Castro told his Facebook readers what else they can do for writers.
The Hugos are broken. These people broke them. I don’t see them going away and I don’t see it getting any better.
This is a sad thing, but you know what?
The Hugos were once fandom’s way of honoring that which touched them.
Today, the readership is more balkanized. Nobody reads everything published in fantastic fiction. Some of you only read novels about women in tight pants fighting vampires. Some of you only read novels about spaceships going pew-pew-pew in the asteroids. Some of you only read literary sf. Whatever gets honored in any particular year will leave the partisans of one kind of fiction feeling left out. The Puppies are nothing if not folks saddened by a couple of years of awards going to more diverse choices: people going boo-hoo-hoo because of not enough love for pew-pew-pew.
You want to honor your favorite authors with awards?
Telling others about their great books is an award.
Telling them you loved their books is an award.
Expressing your enthusiasm with online reviews is an award.
(13) THE OTHER HUGO. James H. Burns points out this ’70s toy that later was featured as “a guest” on both The Uncle Floyd Show, and Pee Wee Herman’s first stage show and HBO special!
(14) GALACTIC STARS. The Traveler at Galactic Journey decided over 50 years ago that the Hugos were not the answer, and started giving out his own Galactic Stars every year. The latest set were announced last December.
The chill of winter is finally here, heralding the end of a year. It’s time for eggnog, nutmeg, presents, pies, and family. But more importantly, it’s time for the second annual Galactic Stars awards.
Forget the Hugos–here’s what I liked best in 1960.
In a tradition I began last year, I look back at all fiction that debuted in magazines (at least, The Big Four) with a cover date of this year as well as all of the science fiction books published. Then I break down the fiction by length, choose the best by magazine, and finally the best overall. All using the most modern and sophisticated scientific techniques, of course.
Last year, my choices mirrored those chosen at the Labor Day Worldcon for the Hugo awards. We’ll see if my tastes continue to flow in the mainstream. I break my length categories a bit finer than the Hugos, so there are bound to be some differences from that aspect, alone.
[Thanks to John King Tarpinian, Cora Buhlert, Jim C. Hines, and James H. Burns for some of these stories. Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editor of the day Will R.]
Discover more from File 770
Subscribe to get the latest posts to your email.
(5) AH SWEET. Russell Newquist boosts the Castalia House signal in “The Perversion of Science Fiction and Fantasy Fandom”. “The first is “Safe Space as Rape Room: Science Fiction Culture and Childhood’s End.” Written by Daniel Eness for the Castalia House blog. The second is “The Story of Moira Greyland” by Moira Greyland. These two works are not just the most important published works of the science fiction community of 2015. They are the most important works of this millennium…”
Yeah, nah. SSARR is a libelous, error-ridden piece of shit.
Greyland’s piece is worth reading — but it’s not a “related work”, not even remotely (the fact that her parents were SFF authors does not make it a “related work”) — and while it’s understandable where she acquired her insistence that “gay = pedophile”, that insistence is just wrong. 😐
@Xenu [whose nick makes me happy as an Operation Clambake clam], wrote:
I know I am in the minority but the asterisks made me laugh.
It made me chuckle appreciatively at a gesture that, if you took it in the right spirit, i.e., aren’t throwing a pity party, wasn’t even a jab at all: Everyone was already thinking of asterisks, and Gerrold’s generous-minded speech acknowledged that and offered a parsing that, if you ran with his narrative’s assumptions about the three record-setting metrics, handed you a way to think of it as a symbol of good things. I thought the gesture warm-heared, albeit utterly doomed by the usual suspects’ persecution complexes — and, on the last day of con, I bought a bunch of the smaller ones from Gerrold in the dealer’s room, before driving off into the smoke.
Anyway, I’m guessing MAC2 will try hard not to pull the drama llamas’ tails in any way they can reasonably prevent.
11) P Nielsen Hayden @pnh
Man, nobody appreciates what a PITA it’s been fixing the Hugo Awards all these years.
Oh, I got a good belly laugh out of that. 😀
@JBWeld: so the vampire/spaceship is a much bigger subgenre than I’d previously assumed?! *scrabbles to write down all the recs*
(8) THOUGHTS THUNK WHILE THINKING. I don’t believe we were picked as a parody, for the simple reason that
Castalia likes our work enough to give usas VD’s shills, we were offered a weekly column on theirincreasingly populartroll-frequented blog. An anthologyunassociated with usrun by another one of VD’s shills recently opened up submissions for superversive stories.There, Anthony M. Fixed That For You.
I think we need Julie Andrews to cheer everybody up. She had to battle Nazis with nothing more than folks song and liederhosen.
N.K.Jemisin and the brilliant Fifth Season
Ancillary Mercy’s compassionate reason
Novik’s Uprooted all tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things
When the Vox snarks
When the pup barks
When I’m feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don’t feel so bad
I can think of one story right now that has both vampires and spaceships in it…
Also The Madness Season by C.S.Friedman
(8) THOUGHTS THUNK WHILE THINKING
Looking at his amendment to the article, complaining that Mike’s paraphrase is “sleazy” and incorrect, I just have to go huh wha? He says it doesn’t bother him and shouldn’t bother others, and writes an entire article explaining why he holds that position, so how is “thoroughly okay” an unfair summation?
I was going to stretch my fingertips as far to leave a comment, but I can see someone has asked him almost exactly the same thing and had him refuse to answer, so nah.
Anyway, I’ll say something I said elseweb as well: if the Sads want to follow up their good work in not actually running a proper slate and be disassociated from the Teddy Boys, they need to deal with the portion of them applauding what VD has done and arguing it is totally justified.
—
@Camestros
Does a spoonful of sugar help the nominations go down?
Mark: (8) THOUGHTS THUNK WHILE THINKING. Looking at his amendment to the article, complaining that Mike’s paraphrase is “sleazy” and incorrect, I just have to go huh wha? He says it doesn’t bother him and shouldn’t bother others, and writes an entire article explaining why he holds that position, so how is “thoroughly okay” an unfair summation?
You’ve got to love it. He says (paraphrasing), The Hugos are a joke. Anything with “Space Raptor Butt Invasion” on its list of award nominees is not to be taken seriously. But Superversive SF, and Brian Niemeier, and Jeffro Johnson, and Jason Rennie are not on the ballot as a joke, so this is totally an honor, and we should still be taken seriously!
It’s wildly amusing to me that these people, when they look in the mirror, don’t comprehend what a colossal joke their status as “Hugo Finalist” is.
@Onieros
Vampire/Spaceship? I don’t think anyone mentioned Weber’s Out of the Dark yet, which was the first thing I thought of.
Not that I would put it on a rec list normally, fairly bland and predictable MilSF. 2.5 / 5 stars.
ETA: my comment is awaiting moderation? I’ve commented before, did we lose the approved list in the server meltdown too?
I tried to collect all the Rabid finalists’ comments on being Rabid finalists in one place, in case anybody is interested. Most likely I missed something.
1) Yeah… I’m not sure that playing the “I’m completely oblivious, and I know nothing about what’s going on” card is really a good way to go.
4) Oh look, another shitty comic without a punchline, by a guy drawing nude versions of teenage superheros.
5) Of the millenium?! Man. I see the puppies have found Hyperbole.
8) Well, I can see that Superversive wijll be going below the NA line for me. “Man, we got used in a campaign to destroy and award! We’re totally using that to further market to assholes! Give us the award!”
9) This is what Ursula was talking about. Now MLP fans are being dragged intoa fight that isn’t about them, but is about using them as a cudgel.
11) … I find it funny. I have a feeling that the usual suspects will continue to not understand satire or sarcasm.
@Kathodus and Soon Lee,
Interestingly enough it starts picking up steam after book ten. The last Jordan book, Knife of Dreams, was a throw back to the greatness of Eye of the World, and the Sanderson stuff really finished it off well. Except for one minor characcter death that i’m still pissed off about.
@spacefaringkitten,
Thanks very much for that. Cuts my reading obligations down by quite a lot. I feel really bad about authors like Hao Jingfang. 🙁
Spacefaringkitten
That’s very kind of you, but I think I’ll pass. I doubt that they are going to be funnier than Chuck Tingle’s riposte, and when the time comes I will be voting on merit.
@Stevie
There is a picture of Stephen King’s corgi puppy, you know. 😀
“I think we need Julie Andrews to cheer everybody up.”
The scrolls are alive, with the sound of pixels!
(Camestros Felaptons’ was much better)
Vox Day tried to use Chuck Tingle to troll the Hugo voters, but right now it looks as if Chuck Tingle is outtrolling Vox and I for one love it, though Space Raptor Butt Invasion is not the Hugo finalist I’d hoped for.
@Camestros
Is that an accident, an intentional typo or a Freudian slip? Cause the short leather pants that are part of Alpine folk dress for men (and kids unfortunate enough to have sadistic relatives – I had some as a kid) are called “Lederhosen”, i.e. leather pants. “Liederhosen” would be “song pants” in German, which certainly fits in with The Sound of Music.
Though like all German speaking people, I vastly prefer the original 1956 German film version Die Trapp Familie to the Hollywood/Broadway version The Sound of Music, which BTW is largely unknown in Germany.
YouTube has the entire 1956 Trapp Familie film with English subtitles BTW, for anybody who wants to take a look. Note the POC in the background in the Ellis Island scenes at the very end.
So is Patrick N-H going to be known as “McFixey” now?
spacefaringkitten
You certainly know how to strew temptations into my path, but, on the other hand, I am currently trying to decide whether to go to the Royal Windsor Horse Show, spiritual home of all corgis however far they roam, in a couple of weeks time.
Not even Stephen King’s corgi puppy can compete with that, but it’s a very nice try; definitely would have worked were it not for the Queen…
ETA
Cora
VD thought he was gaming us all; instead he’s provided a perfect platform for someone he loathes, who has seized his opportunity with grace and good humour, to use it for the benefit of the people VD loathes.
Chuck Tingle might just be the anti-VD.
I’m not wild about Space Raptor Butt Invasion being on the ballot, especially after reading N.K. jemisin’s perspective on it, which I really appreciated.
However, based on the plot summary alone, I’m pencilling “Space Raptor Butt Redemption” into my 2016 list of things to consider for Best Related Work as a meta commentary on the whole situation.
(8) THOUGHTS THUNK WHILE THINKING.
Someone (I apologize for forgetting who) asked the other day whether any of the Rabid nominees would proudly align themselves with Vox. Now we have an answer.
Rick Moen wrote:
So much this. I personally was thinking of last year’s Hugos as having an asterisk from the moment I saw the ballot. The elephant was squatting in the living room. I felt no need to pretend it wasn’t there in the months running up to the Hugo ceremony, and neither did most of the people commenting here. If the Hugo ceremony had pretended it wasn’t there that would have struck me as dishonest. Sure you could (metaphorically) use CGI to make the elephant “invisible” but everybody would still have been inching around the sides of it–which would have looked pretty strange.
So go David Gerrold for coming up with a way to put a party hat on the elephant and plant flowers in what it left on the carpet.
As for me, my Hugo voting will be “1) no you don’t get to slate yourself a Hugo and 2) no you don’t get to make me veto honest contenders.” So knowing who is trying to slate themselves a Hugo is helpful. Thank you, spacefaringkitten!
@TYP
Yes! Now that the nominations are done, there’s no reason for any of us to pay any attention at all to what the slaters do or say. We need to make sure that there’s a strong attendance and vote at MidAmeriCon2, but that can surely be done without giving them attention.
Yes! (Again.) That’s why we should read all the works (in the fiction categories, anyway) and vote based on quality, ignoring whether a work came from a slate. We win if a quality work gets a Hugo, and we win if we no-award a category full of trash. But we lose if we no-award quality works.
I suspect many people on all sides of the conroversy won’t get past the title of Space Raptor Butt Invasion, and for most of those people its presence demeans the ballot.
That’s why we should read all the works (in the fiction categories, anyway) and vote based on quality
I really don’t want to read Space Raptor Butt Invasion.
@Greg Hullender: that’s my biggest worry this year, that a quality work or author gets caught in the crossfire and loses to No Award because of this mess. That would be Teddy’s dream, and the only real, genuinely possible outcome where he “wins” anything at all.
I do think that Worldcon and Hugo-voting fandom have more sense than that, particularly in light of how many people are backing the hell away from Ted as fast as they can (even as some bend to kiss his ring). But it’s still a possibility, and that worries me a little. Especially since some of my favourite picks got on there and it may possibly have been due to Rabid involvement.
@Greg Hullender You think you’re being funny but you’re coming off as sort of a douche. Call me irresponsible, call me the worst unfair Hugo voter ever, I don’t want to read erotica, that isn’t what I signed up for.
Edited to make it clear erotica is the part I most object to.
@Oneiros
I think the biggest test of our principles will be the novelette “What Price Humanity?” since it was in “There Will Be War, volume X” from Castalia House. Yet objectively, I rate it higher than any other novelette on the list (I’ve read and reviewed them all). Anyone who really believes in voting for quality and ignoring the slaters has got to at least give it a fair chance.
But I fear that most people won’t even read an RP pick from Castalia house, and that’s a real shame. I think that if “What Price Humanity?” were to actually win the Best Novelette Hugo then we’d be able to say that fans really do put quality over all other considerations.
@Iphinome
Okay, in all seriousness, then, I see no reason anyone needs to actually read any of the nominees that are clearly “vandalism.” For a serious work that was honestly nominated, sure, it would be bad to vote it below no award without reading it. But there’s no reason anyone should feel they have to read “Space Raptor,” “Safe Space as Raperoom,” etc.
@Iphinome: I haven’t yet read “Space Raptor Butt Invasion”, but from the comments I’ve seen so far, it’s about as erotic as a gas bill.
I will read it, if it’s in the voters’ packet (I’m not paying for it – if nothing else, I have my Amazon buying history to consider). And (as I think I’ve commented elsewhere) if it turns out to be the next “And I Awoke to Find Me Here on the Cold Hill’s Side”, I will vote accordingly. But my hopes are not high – and if it turns out to have no particular merit as a story, I would rather it didn’t Boaty McBoatface its way into a Hugo award just because people think that would be funny.
@Greg Hullender
You really are being offensive with SRBI. Please stop.
No one is required to read everything on the shortlist.
Some of you may choose to do so. Some of us may decide not to. Both are legitimate choices. If I don’t read it I leave it off my ballot. This is what I was taught by a number of people who’ve been involved in the Hugos for 25+ years. Some of the ones who told me it was ok to not read just don’t rank are people who read everything on the shortlist.
I will not be forced to read anything by Castilia House. I will not be forced to read works where rape, suicide, child abuse, and other such themes are treated casually or as good things and leave me a mess due to PTSD. I may or may not try to read a work of erotica as occasionally stuff I read has explicit sex scenes slipped in it but since I usually skip those scenes in books I’m guessing I’m not going to find Chuck Timgle’s book readable. I prefer sex off the page to on it thank you very much.
What is up with you thinking it’s ok to constantly tell others how to behave or what we all think and believe? Please, I’ve asked you nicely in the past, I’m asking again, Stop.
ETA: cross-posted but leaving because it’s still an ongoing problem. There was no apology and the “serious” reply continued the vien on “read”
I was put in lederhosen as a tot. I recall rather liking them.
My opinion is that anyone capable of producing work of sufficient quality to get to the Hugo ballot on merit probably can find more than one publisher willing to pick up that work. Choosing to publish through Theodore Beale’s press means you run the risk of being passed over by people who cannot, in good conscience, support Mr. Beale in any way.
It’s too bad that a lot of new writers are so desperate for publication and attention that they’ll make decisions like that, but no one else is obligated to ignore their conscience when evaluating someone’s work.
Thanks for the reference to Operation Clambake. I had to look it up. I will spend some time there.
It is somewhat timely because once upon a time it was Clams trying to game the system for L. Ron Hubbard, who ended up below “No Award”. Notice that the vandalism from 1987 didn’t destroy the Hugo Awards.
@Greg Hullender
We all have our own metrics of course. For me quality doesn’t matter in this instance. A work published by someone actively engaged in an attempt to burn down the Hugos automatically goes below No Award. Self respect and preservation of the Hugos pretty much demands it in my estimation.
I’m not going to read or rank anything from Castalia House, or SRBI, or anything else that looks at all dubious that clearly owes its presence on the ballot to Beale.
@Jon F Zeigler
According to Pournelle he couldn’t get a better deal than Castilia House. He’s not new to publishing. I agree with everything else you say. 😉
@Oneiros et al. My question would be, is the vampire or the spaceship more central to the story?
According to Pournelle he couldn’t get a better deal than Castilia House. He’s not new to publishing.
He couldn’t find a better deal to revive a two decade out of date anthology series that was a niche publication even when the previous volumes were current. Castalia was buying the cachet of Pournelle’s name, and Pournelle was a willing accomplice.
JSJones: Aside from the RP’s, the underlying problem is the “balkanization” mentioned. SF is too broadly defined now. I would like the vampires and the spaceships (etc.) to have different award categories.
I have just been reading The Hugo Winners, edited by Isaac Asimov. it includes all the short fiction winners from 1955 to 1961. The Short Story winner in 1959 was ‘The Hell-Bound Train’ by Robert Bloch, about a man who does a deal with the devil. It is pure fantasy. Stuff of this kind was always included under the SF umbrella. It was normally called ‘science fiction’, because the sciency stuff dominated the field, and fantasy had not become such a big thing in its own right. But it was allowed in.
The change is not that SF now covers more kinds of stuff; it’s that there is more stuff (more individual works), and the various subgroups have become more definitely defined. But while it’s true that no one reads all of it (there isn’t the time), it’s not true that people read only one variety. There is also plenty of work that doesn’t fit neatly into one well-defined variety; and the Hugos often reward that kind of work. The straightforward ‘here is a book about vampires, for those who love vampires’ kind of work won’t get a Hugo. Books that do something interestingly new with vampires might.
I will not read anything related to Castilia House. And that is that. I might scan through SRBI a bit if I get it for free, but read it? Nah.
I’m not too concerned whether or not someone made a business decision to go with Castalia, that can be between them and their conscience.
I just don’t think any of the business reasons given are relevant to the decision to participate in slating. “Business” does not require you to win an award. You don’t feed your family with a rocket.
Slating is what happens when you let your ego overwhelm your sense of fairness.
I have just been reading The Hugo Winners, edited by Isaac Asimov. it includes all the short fiction winners from 1955 to 1961. The Short Story winner in 1959 was ‘The Hell-Bound Train’ by Robert Bloch, about a man who does a deal with the devil. It is pure fantasy.
One could also point to the Hugo winning stories Gonna Roll the Bones and Ill-Met in Lankhmar both by Fritz Leiber as examples of fantasy winning the award.
I have no desire to tell anyone what to read, or not to read, to vote, or not to vote; my choices are my own.
I do get pissed off when people tell me what to read, or not to read, to vote, or not to vote; my choices are my own.
My objection is to anyone presuming to do so; in this respect I don’t distinguish between VD, Glen H, Greg et al. Anyone who thinks he has the right to order me to act in a certain way when it comes to nominating/voting Hugo works is delusional.
Anyone who thinks he has the right to demand that individuals should read erotica is not only delusional but also downright silly; this sort of schoolboy sniggering says a great deal about the minds of the people doing the schoolboy sniggering, and none of it is flattering…
@Soon Lee
I think the WSFS as a whole have too many people who are too well adjusted to speak of Xanatos Gambits (said with humor). More seriously, I think that while No Award will beat shit with the Hugo Winner label, quality with that label beats No Award. Quality with the label that won fairly beats all of those of course – but that is not attainable this year outside of Novel.
@Greg Hollander / Re: importance of quality in general
I was originally writing in response to the various people proclaiming the death of the Hugo’s prestige and credibility. I think that is making the perfect the enemy of the good, because even if the process has been compromised this year, the end result, of an old reward being pinned on quality, is within reach due to Teddy Beale out scheming himself. If those goes year after year, we may have a problem, and a durable fix is vital.
But Teddy’s goal is a Hugo on nothing, or a Hugo on crap, or a Hugo given to his fellow man children. For more categories than last year, we can avoid all three of those outcomes – and in some categories that No Awarded last year, there’s even more than one pick. This is an improvement, and counter to Teddy’s goal.
Now, as for the dilemma of “would you vote for Castelia”, why worry about it? Like last year, it’s a case of turds all the way down with the Castelia (or Superversive) imprints, with maybe a maybe in there. To worry about whether you’d vote for Castelia, Castelia has to produce something that meets the standards of quality to get a Hugo. They haven’t done that yet.
It’s becoming more and more clear to me that Teddy committed a serious error. He wants to destroy the Hugo’s credibility and prestige. Yet he gave us a list of things that allow us navigate Scylla and Charybdis and make sure the award is given, and not to crap. EPH will allow that to happen next year.
Long-term though, you can’t be navigating Scylla and Charybdis forever. Having slept on it, I really like Stanlee’s idea.
P:S> I think Mr. Tingle is a performance artist, who’s going to get a kick, and produce some funny material out of this either way. I think we can No Award him as not Hugo-worthy and still be very nice, even appreciative of him.
Ilona Andrews has vampires and space ships in Clean Sweep book 1 of The Innkeeper series. It’s more UF than SF but the vampires are very much linked to the space ships. Ilona Andrews is a hybrid author. The Innkeeper series (2 books so far) is self-published and are reasonably priced ebooks. They can also be found in paper versions. The series is not as good as her Kate Daniels but it’s still better than a lot of what’s out there.
@TYP
No question. We ought to be able to give creditable awards in Novel, Novella, Novelette, and (I expect) Short Story this year. There’s no good reason any of those categories should be no-awarded this year.
But Best Novelette is going force people to choose between voting strictly for quality vs. voting to punish the slates. That hasn’t happened before, and it’s worth at least being aware of.
@Gregg
All very true, but at the end of the day, people will make their own choices. Whatever cases we may make for best courses of action, people will react to the nominees as they will; overall I think the basic decency of so many fen will make for a good outcome.
@Greg
Greg, I’m glad that you liked “What Price Humanity?”. But this constant insistence that you liking it is an objective statement of it’s superior quality is kinda tiresome, as is the whole insistence that people should vote by your method and metric.
But this constant insistence that you liking it is an objective statement of it’s superior quality is kinda tiresome, as is the whole insistence that people should vote by your method and metric.
There’s a reason I have Greg whited out. His commentary is so very often not worth bothering with.