Santa Claus vs. P.U.P.P.Y. 6/25

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aka Fetch-22

In the roundup today: Francis Turner, Greg Ketter, Kristel Autencio, Lyle Hopwood, Abigail Nussbaum, Ridley, Cheryl Morgan, Rachel Neumeier, Brandon Kempner, Kevin Standlee, Lis Carey, Spacefaring Kitten, JT Richardson, Laura “Tevan” Gjovaag, Rebekah Golden, Tim Matheson, Damien G. Walter and less identifiable others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Dave Clark and Will Reichard.)

 

Francis Turner on The Otherwhere Gazette

“The Future of Tor” – June 25

The posts inspired me to take a look at my book buying habits and it turns out I jumped the shark gun on the boycott thing because it seems I’ve been boycotting Tor for a while now. Not intentionally, but that’s probably more serious for Tor and its owners than a straightforward determination to boycott. You see Tor don’t actually publish books I want to read and, Kevin J Anderson apart, haven’t done so for a few years.

 

Greg Ketter on Facebook – June 25

[Greg Ketter of DreamHaven Books is offering Tor hardcover books at 40% off through the end of July to show support for Irene Gallo. For locals, the store address is: DreamHaven Books, 2301 E. 38th St., Minneapolis, MN 55406.]

Alright. Enough’s Enough…

I’ve been following some of the Hugo controversy and the follow on Irene Gallo / TOR dust-up and I’m truly tired of the demands for Irene’s ouster as some mis-guided and some other downright evil people threaten boycotts. It’s completely disgusting and JUST PLAIN WRONG and, well, I can do something about it in terms of sales of Tor books.

From now until the end of July, I will sell all TOR hardcover books at 40% off cover price. If I don’t hav…e it in stock, I’ll order it. You can come in the store or you can order by phone or email. This should make it easier to support Irene and negate any minimal effect the boycotters may have. A letter in support of Irene to the very same people that Vox Day and Peter Grant and others are asking you to send hate mail to would also go a long way.

I’ve been quiet on the whole subject mostly because I just couldn’t be bothered to spend any time on it. I wasn’t worried about adverse effects on my own business since I sincerely doubt the kinds of trollish behavior I’m seeing is from any of my customers. I’m amazed that the biggest complainers would have bought any books from Tor, ever, since they admit their reading tastes are generally contrary to everything that Tor holds dear (this is a totally facetious statement since I have no idea what it could really mean – I’ve been buying Tor books for my store since they first started and from what I can see, they publish books that they can sell. Period.)

So, I’m declaring July to be TOR BOOKS MONTH around here and I wish you all good reading.

 

Kristel Autencio on BookRiot

“The Brave New World of Spec Fic Magazines: A Primer” – June 25

Tor.com

Let’s address the giant, unhappy elephant in the room. When I started building this primer early in June, I automatically rounded up some of my favorite short stories published on the Tor website, acquired by keen editors such as Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Ellen Datlow and Anne Vandermeer. I was going to talk about how each story is paired with some of the most arresting artwork in the genre, thanks in large part to the art direction by Irene Gallo. That was before Tor publisher Tom Doherty proceeded to throw Irene Gallo under the bus, succumbing to an extended campaign by so-called Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies, whose reason for existence is their opposition to the fact that more people of color, LGBTQ+ people, and women are taking up space in the SFF landscape. Rioter Brenna Clark Gray goes more in-depth with this story.

This is not the recommendation I had wanted to write.

Some who are appalled by these developments are disavowing support for Tor, since it is an institution that would rather appease genre reactionaries than support their own employees who are doing vital work. This is a valid response.  But Tor (both the website and the publishing house) is also home to stories that Irene Gallo and other people like her are working hard to champion, the very voices that the Puppy Industrial Complex are saying should not be recognized by the Hugos or the Nebulas. It is your prerogative to not give Tor any of your money or your clicks, but I urge you to take note of these names, all of whom I first encountered through this publication: ….

 

Lyle Hopwood on Peromyscus

“’Do you mean to throw a level playing field under the bus?’” – June 24

In an impassioned argument against the proposal for a Hugo for “Sagas”, a professional SF writer writes:

Under the bus screenshot

“Do you mean to throw a level playing field under the bus?” I don’t know whether that fantastic image makes me more likely to buy their work or less. I’ve been thinking about the phrase to throw someone under the bus recently, as it was used approximately 16,993 times in the discussions about publisher Tor’s open letter disavowing Irene Gallo’s Facebook comment, which, since it referred to her by name, was widely considered to be throwing her under the bus.

 

 

Ridley on Stay With Me, Go Places

“Doing Slightly More Than Nothing About The Hugo Awards” – June 24

For the first time in my life, I’ll be voting on the Hugo Awards this year.

I’ve been reading science fiction for several decades now, but this is the first time I’ve felt strongly enough about the awards to get involved. One vote isn’t much, but I feel like it’s important to do what little bit I can. I’ll share my ballot after I submit it.

 

Cheryl Morgan on Cheryl’s Mewsings

“Archipelacon – Day 1” – June 25

Thus far I have done one panel. It was about the Puppies and what to do about them. Hopefully I managed to convey the fact that there’s not much any individual can do because of the determined way in which WSFS refuses to give anyone any power. All that Kevin, or I, or anyone else can do is try to make things better and hope that sufficient people come along with us. No matter what we do, large numbers of people will think we failed, because so many people refuse to believe that there isn’t a secret cabal running everything.

 

Brandon Kempner on Chaos Horizon

“A Best Saga Hugo: An Imagined Winner’s List, 2005-2014” – June 25

I’m using the assumption that Hugo voters would vote for Best Saga like they vote for Best Novel and other categories. Take Connie Willis: she has 24 Hugo nominations and 11 wins. I figure the first time she’s up for a Best Saga, she’d win. This means that my imagined winners are very much in keeping with Hugo tradition; you may find that unexciting, but I find it hard to believe that Hugo voters would abandon their favorites in a Best Saga category. I went through each year and selected a favorite. Here’s what I came up with as likely/possible winners (likely, not most deserving). I’ve got some explanation below, and it’s certainly easy to flip some of these around or even include other series. Still, this is gives us a rough potential list to see if it’s a worthy a Hugo: ….

 

Rachel Neumeier

“Just about ready to vote for the Hugo Awards” – June 25

[Reviews all nominated fiction, movies, and pro artists. Then continues with comments about Hugo rules changes.]

The best post I’ve seen about the situation with the Hugos this year, incidentally, is this recent one by Rich Horton at Black Gate. I think he is dead right about the desirability of reforming the Hugo Award so that any one person can only nominate so many works per category, and then the categories contain more works than that. I don’t think I would say that anyone can nominate up to five works and then there will be ten nominees, though. Ten is a lot. I think it is too many. My preference would be: you can nominate only four works per category, and there will be six (or, fine, eight if necessary) nominees. That should really help break the power of both bloc voting and over-the-top fan clubs to put one author on the ballot five times in a single year.

I would also be in favor of a more specific reform: No author can have more than two works up for a Hugo in one year, or more than one work per category. If more than that make the cut, the author must choose two total, one per category, and the rest must be eliminated from the ballot. No one – no one – ever has or ever will write one-fifth of all the best stories produced in a given year. It is absolutely ridiculous to allow a ballot that implies that is possible, and worse to deny exposure to other works that might otherwise be nominated….

 

Kevin Standlee on Fandom Is My Way Of Life

“Procedural Notice: Recording Committee of the Whole” – June 25

I have mentioned a few times and in a few places that at this year’s Business Meeting, what I call the “technical” discussion of complex proposals such as E Pluribus Hugo (and possibly Popular Ratification) might best be handled by having the meeting go into what is known as “Committee of the Whole.” A proponent of the proposal would then hold the floor during the COTW and do a Q&A-style discussion. Such discussions are procedurally more difficult to do in the main debate because of the rules regarding who can speak and how often; however, the two proposals I’ve named (and possibly others to come) are sufficiently complex that I expect that many members simply want to ask the sponsors of the motions what the proposals mean…..

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“Interstellar, screenplay by Jonathan Nolan and Christopher Nolan, directed by Christopher Nolan (Paramount Pictures, Warner Bros. Pictures, Legendary Pictures, Lynda Obst Productions, Syncopy)” – June 25

interstellar

Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form 2015 Hugo nominee Interstellar is visually magnificent, exciting, thought-provoking, and a bit long. It pains me to say that last bit. I wanted to love every second of it. In the end, I couldn’t, though I did love most of it. Parts of it did just drag, and there’s no way around that.

 

Spacefaring Kitten on Spacefaring, Extradimensional Happy Kittens

“The Bondesque Superhero Action of Captain America: The Winter Soldier” – June 25

All Captain America is good for seems to be posturing and telling everybody what’s the moral thing to do (in addition to throwing his shield around which looks sillier in movies than in comic books). I almost rooted for the comically sinister Nazis.

Score: 4/10.

 

JT Richardson on JT’s German Adventure

Hugos 2015 Read – Best Graphic Story – June 25

Zombie Nation

I am, and have long been*, a MASSIVE comics fan. My tastes generally run to superhero comics, though I’ve dipped my toe into the more “serious” waters — Maus, Persepolis, Blankets***, Logicomix****, and the AWESOME Cartoon History of the Universe. But this year’s noms are a pretty nice mix — One Marvel, 3 Image (Hooray for creator-owned!) and one webcomic. DC was too busy planning its semi-annual reboot to generate nominees*****. Best Graphic Story — As a long-time reader of superhero, especially Marvel, comics, I’m definitely biased toward the capes. But this year’s noms only have one (which I have already read, and loved). Here are my thoughts, in reverse alphabetical order: ….

 

Reading SFF

“2015 Hugo Awards Reading: Why Science is Never Settles – Tedd Roberts (Best Related Work)” – June 25

Apart from that, my main criticism of the article regarding its Hugo nomination is the fact that its SFF-relatedness is nothing more than a single reference to one of Eric Flint‘s novels. So, even though this is a good article, I don’t think it should be on the Hugo ballot as a “Best Related Work”, irrespective of whether it was published by SFF publisher Baen or whether it contains a SFF-al reference.

In conclusion, this nominee will not appear on my ballot, it should never have been nominated in this category as I don’t consider it to be a “Related Work”.

 

Reading SFF

“2015 Hugo Awards Reading: Turncoat – Steve Rzasa (Short Story)” – June 25

The plot is nothing special and unfortunately for me, the reader, it was predictable how things would turn out very early on (the title of the story was a big give-away, but even without that title the plot design would have been obvious).

Still, the story is good enough that I will place it above No Award.

 

Reading SFF

“2015 Hugo Awards Reading: Wisdom from my Internet – Michael Z. Williamson” – June 23

Wisdom from my Internet is a collection of very short jokes (tweets maybe?) on a variety of subjects, mainly US-American politics though. It self-published by the author in an imprint he fittingly named “Patriarchy Press”. I started reading, then skimming then fast-forwarding through it with short stops to see whether it had improved further on (it hadn’t) until I reached the end. That was fast. And easy to judge: not on my ballot will this thing ever be. No Award. Because:

Are you* serious?

*By “you” I mean Sad Puppies, Rabid Puppies, and whoever gets to decide whether a given nominee is an eligible nominee.

 

Laura “Tevan” Gjovaag on Bloggity-Blog-Blog-Blog

“Hugo Reviewing – Professional Artist” – June 25

[Comments on all five nominees before concluding –]

It’s not hard to figure out that Dillon’s work impressed me the most, by a fairly large margin. I’d then go with DouPonce for my second-place choice. Pollack and Greenwood rank about the same and Reid is last, not because he’s worst, but because his art doesn’t seem to fit for me. I might even mix it up and put Reid above the other two. This is another one I’m going to have to sleep on.

With the exception of Dillon, whose subjects I enjoyed, and Reid, who had a wide variety of subjects, the choice of imagery was fairly standard for the artists. They were cover art for the most part, but they were fairly static. As a comic book reader, I like my art to flow and have some sense of movement… like your mind will fill in the next scene. Pollack, Greenwood and DouPonce had art that felt like it was posed. Dillon’s work was more natural. Reid, of course, is a sequential artist, so he didn’t have that problem.

 

Rebekah Golden

“2015 Hugo Awards Best Novel: Reviewing Ancillary Sword” – June 24

I’m glad I read Ancillary Sword. It was an interesting book with some very topical thoughts on oppression and distribution of wealth. Anyone who is familiar with the concepts of company towns will find similar motifs in Ancillary Sword. Anyone who read and enjoyed Ancillary Justice will find Ancillary Sword to be a fitting continuation of the story, well written, well thought out, well developed. The compelling questions behind it aren’t as striking as in the first novel which I think is why it falls a little flat comparatively. Still, solidly good military sci-fi in the tradition of Elizabeth Moon and Tanya Huff.

 

Rebekah Golden

“2015 Hugo Awards Best Graphic Novel: Reviewing Rat Queens” – June 24

I know there’s a lot of nostalgia over D&D right now but personally I’m tired of fictionalized D&D campaigns no matter how clever or well drawn. Throw in a little Lovecraft, add a college dorm element, top it off with some back story and potential for depth, it’s still D&D nostalgia. And nostalgia must be written let it at least have a twist. No twist. Fun, well drawn, nostalgia.

 

Tim Atkinson on Magpie Moth

“Hard science, hot mess: Liu Cixin’s The Three-Body Problem” – June 25

The Three Body Problem was a late arrival to the Hugo ballot this year, being added after withdrawals due to voting slate politics.

The work of one of China’s most prominent science-fiction writers, Liu Cixin, it is actually nearly ten years old. In 2014, it finally penetrated the cultural myopia of the Anglosphere in translation, and is therefore eligible for a Hugo.

And I’m jolly glad of this, since The Three Body Problem is one of the two stand-out novels on the shortlist, along with the very different The Goblin Emperor. Amid space opera and fantasy (urban and classic flavours) it sticks out like a tall poppy because it is full to the brim of ideas.

 

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708 thoughts on “Santa Claus vs. P.U.P.P.Y. 6/25”

  1. For 9-12, definitely anything Diane Wynne Jones, particularly Chrestomanci.

    Fablehaven is pretty recent, five volumes, very good, about a preserve for magical creatures. Dragon Slippers by Jessica Day George is awesomeness, as is Tuesdays At The Castle. All very good reads without being insulting to a super advanced reader, all at least trilogies so if they like, there’s more where that came from.

    Poison Study is great and reads easy–if they’re already at Heinlein, nothing in it will be shocking. I found the sequels to suffer from a certain amount of…err…constant escalation with nobody ever getting a chance to rest, and resulting Dragonball Z like ratcheting up of powers, but that’s just me.

    Strongly recommend Juliet Marillier’s books Shadowfell, Raven Flight, and The Caller, which are YA but (at least in the first one) nothing so horrific as to be problematic for an advanced MG reader.

    (I will, with some guilt, also mention that my middle-grade novel Castle Hangnail came out recently as well.)

  2. @Iain I reread them all a few years ago (including the last two Mallorean for the first time) and I still enjoyed them. I struggled with the Mallorean though which probably indicates it was mainly the nostalgia.

  3. I still enjoy the Belgariad, for what it’s worth, and I think it’s fine for a YA reader. Also, Octavia Butler ‘s Imago novels, ELIZABETH MOON and the early Honor Harrington books.

  4. Re: The Belgariad. I’m reading it now because I never encountered it as a kid; it’s nice to hear that it’s still okay for at least some people — although how much of that is nostalgia, I dunno. So far, I’d say it’s fine.

    Nostalgia can sure fail you, though. I made the grave mistake of trying to reread The Sword of Shannara a little while ago. That was painful.

  6. First, belated thanks to @JJ (I believe) for pointing out all of the short fiction online. I am currently buried in it. 🙂

    And on theme, here are the first short stories I can remember as really making my brain tingle:
    The Veldt (Bradbury)
    All Summer in a Day (Bradbury)
    Graveyard Shift (King)
    How to talk to Girls at Parties (Gaiman)
    Colour out of Space (Lovecraft)

    I also love that I didn’t know the name or author of the first two stories but putting ‘the one where the kids feed their parents to the lions’ and ‘the one where the kid wants to see the sun on venus but can’t’ both pulled up what I wanted. Explains why I had such a huge love for the Martian Chronicles later. ‘the one where people have sped up life spans because of radiation’ sounds familiar – Google/Wikipedia says.. maybe Frost and Fire (also Bradbury). Does that look right?

  7. Re: Earlier No Awards:

    They’re obscure, but the Firesign Theatre’s radio comedy–I don’t even know what to call it–“Don’t Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers” is a masterpiece; disappointed it didn’t get an award. I’ve listened to it 6 or 7 times now.

  8. Greg on June 26, 2015 at 5:33 pm said:
    Re: Earlier No Awards:

    They’re obscure, but the Firesign Theatre’s radio comedy–I don’t even know what to call it–“Don’t Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers” is a masterpiece; disappointed it didn’t get an award. I’ve listened to it 6 or 7 times now.

    Certain members of my family can recite the entire thing.

  9. jcr

    I am sorry to say that usually I read the last chapter first and work out from there whether I want to read it.

    This has a great deal to do with the fact that I have spent a lot of my time in hospitals; I really don’t need angst, misery, nobody gets out of here alive, because I know that already, and have done so since I was diagnosed with severe bronchiectasis when I was five years old.

    The treatment is not something normal people do, because four hours a day on physio, plus at least 30 minutes on medications, doesn’t look hugely difficult unless you try doing it yourself, when you suddenly realise that this a serious idea.

    I am the first to admit that if I could bend the rules I would not. Once I would have done so, if I could. That was the time when two teenagers with CF, who I’d become very friendly with, read all the stuff about illness is a social construct. They believed that all they had to do was throw away the physio, throw again the meds, and the illness would disappear.

    They died, of course; there is a major deficit in lungs suitable for transplant, and two teenagers who had made no effort to keep the disease at bay were never going to reach the top of the list.

    So I make sure I have some cheerful reading at hand…

  10. Aside from volume four, the Science Fiction Hall of Fame anthologies had very few works by women. If I recall correctly, 1 1/2 in volume I, 1/2 in volume IIA, 1 in IIB, 2 in Volume III and 4 in Volume 4. If you’d like an idea of what women were writing, especially before 1970, look for Pamela Sargent’s Women of Wonder anthologies.

  12. Just wanted to drop in and say:

    @Kary, I believe you.
    @Anna — very good point.

    Now I can get back to catching up and may have more for later.

  14. I could barely get through Annihilation so I didn’t feel like I had enough time to try the second two books. I do appreciate that other people whose opinions I value do appreciate it (hence the Nebula Best Novel win in a competitive field).

    It will be interesting to see how close to being Hugo nominated this yearAnnihilation was when the vote tallies of the Top 15 books are released at Sasquan.

  18. @fred Been trying to think forever of how to use that one. That’s perfect in its simplicity.

  20. Peace: how about isaac Asimov’s Danny Dunn and Lucky Starr stories? Dated, but still good.

  24. Many thanks to all contributors on File770 for a genuinely uplifting screed of messages. You have collectively rebutted that alleged internet truth, that one is a fool to read the comments thread.
    For all the short story recommendations, many thanks, they brought great memories, and food for thought (and the need to trawl through the anthology section of the library).

    Loved ‘Liberty’s Daughter’, and ‘A Dry Quiet War’.

    And Kyra, thanks for the poetry.
    On a morning where good sense has trumped fear of Marriage Equality in the USA, we can but hope that the heat is put on our parliamentarians to get back to Canberra and put ourselvesback on the right side of history.

  25. @ Dr. Strangelobe: Asimov didn’t write the Danny Dunn books (that was Ray Abrashkin and Jay Williams), but they are good.

  26. @David Lanford
    You are my story-identifying hero! If only my brain hadn’t mangled the spelling; sometimes I swear that thing’s out to get me.

    And I now own a bunch of stories by Robert Sheckley which I can’t wait to read. I’m amazed and flabbergasted more of his stuff isn’t in print and/or enkindled given his illustrious career, and I couldn’t find Protection in anything Amazon was offering … but I found it for free (right over here in case anyone’s interested or needs to lesnerize).

    I also found a Sheckley quote that seems kind of pertinent:

    “A lot of us don’t want to be quite that serious about world problems. Our life is there to enjoy, not to be an eternal dissident, eternally unhappy with how things are and with the state of mankind…. I was trying not to take things too seriously.”

    That’s what inspired me to go buy everything kindleable that he wrote. Another File 770-related literary expenditure!

  27. Yay gay marriage ! This is a great day for the U.S.

    ObSF uhm rainbow lasers …

  28. Sorry to veer back to Brad’s non-pology. But even as far as it went, it lacked credibility because that was the post where he boasted, in the teeth of the evidence, that the SP nominations process had been transparent and democratic without log-rolling; it was nothing of the kind, and saying it was so doesn’t make it so.

    Reading the post again, it does offer a path not taken, in that Brad appeared in it to be attempting to distance himself from extreme rhetoric from Puppies of either variety. If he had subsequently actually started calling out people on his own side who violated his stated norms of behaviour, that would have been good evidence that he really took those norms seriously. But he didn’t, because he doesn’t, and as a result his non-pology now looks even more in bad faith than it did at the time.

  29. Charon D:

    Sheckley is just pure joy to read. So many ideas, so well written. I can’t find word how impressed I am by his imagination.

    This with short stories is rather hard for me otherwise. It was maybe 20-25 years since I used to read them and I don’t own those books myself. They are in my fathers library. What I have myself in that category is much more horror than anything else.

    I find that the short stories I favour in SFF also are more to the horror side. No happy puppy endings.

  30. Five old stories that stuck with me, not necessarily because of quality :
    Beyond Lies the Wub
    The Available Data on the Worp Reaction
    Game for Motel Room
    The War is Over
    Miss Omega Raven
    Thus Love Betrays Us
    [ISFDB.org is your friend]

    Writers whose short work has never disappointed:
    Wolfe
    Tiptree
    C. Smith
    Sturgeon
    Lafferty
    Vernon

  31. Steven Schwartz,

    Thank you for offering me these clear and heartfelt comments.

    A good-faith attempt would come with a coherent rationale, an an apology or acknowledgement if things went sideways

    If that’s what you need for things to be civil, then I’m afraid there won’t be civility.

    In the early days of April, fandom was plunged into war and they were being attacked from Boing Boing to Entertainment Weekly as a group of unrepentant racist misogynist neo-**** homophobes bent on denying awards to all but white men. Still, SP3 organizers did offer a rationale and at least a semblance of a semi-apology. For example,Larry said:

    we have liberals, conservatives, moderates, and question marks…

    it has grown far beyond just one man’s opinions. Brad is fighting to make the awards relevant to more of fandom… I never expected us to sweep the awards. Frankly, I was shocked by the results.

    Now the moderates are telling us we did it wrong, or telling us what we should have done better, but the thing is at least we did something. There’s not exactly an instruction manual for this sort of thing you know.

    I’d like to extend an olive branch to Mike Glyer at File 770… I’ve got to hand it to him. Recently he’s been fully quoting my side and letting our arguments stand without interpretation. Well done, sir.

    We don’t want to exclude anybody. We want to include everybody. We’ll look at what happens and adjust fire from there. We are willing to listen to suggestions, debate, and talk with you, because we truly don’t want to destroy the awards or lord over them like some petty tyrants.

    So yes, I can be rude, impatient, and I’m quick to anger. It is a character flaw…
    I’ve had a bunch of honestly concerned people tell me recently that they think I’m being too mean, or that I’m so used to responding to malicious attackers that I sometimes lump in innocent bystanders in with those malicious attackers…For those caught up in that, I apologize.

    Larry Correia, Brad Torgersen, etc., are mammals just like the rest of us, and when we are attacked it is far too easy to double down rather than face up to our mistakes. If I hunt down any more links, this post will become a James May-like opus. But I think the SP3 leaders deserve some credit for acknowledging the situation while under fire. Calling someone sexist or racist or homophobic is not “by definition a horror.” But I did find the volley of incessant attacks (the pace has now mercifully slackened) appalling, as was the apparent trend of holding SP3-slated organizers, authors, or fans, responsible for everything Vox Day, or John C. Wright, has ever said or done. (For example, as Happy-Puppy noted here and Sarah Hoyt noted several times on her blog, many in that camp are libertarians and longtime strong supporters of same-sex marriage.)

    @ Kary English, I thank you for your heartfelt words and your apology. In my own view, I think Brad mishandled the situation by publicly stating that he wanted to give authors the option to withdraw. That muddied the waters. Obviously, if Brad had come to you and said “we’ve got a great new political campaign going, and we’d like you to link our manifesto on your blog so that you speak up in support of our political ideology!” then I do think you would be remiss not to do your homework very carefully before responding “sure! glad to help! tag away!” But that is simply not the case. You are right there is no reason you or anyone else should remove yourself from consideration for a fan award just because Vox Day (or anyone) endorses you. That way lies madness. Does Cixin Liu withdraw because Vox Day now endorses him? Should Addison withdraw because the unabashedly left-leaning Scalzi and GRRM plugged her work on their heavily trafficked sites? Where would it end?

    @ Everyone, as I asked Chris Hensley the other day, can we see any danger in muddling together objections to slates and objections to politics?

    If you would like to speak up strongly against slates please do so. Others might note that the closer we look at it, slates in one form or another have been present since the dawn of time, so the timing is suspicious, but go ahead and answer that concern. Personally, I’ve raised specific concerns about EPH (the timing makes it feel deliberately exclusionary, even a reduced strength of slates is still a problem if we have multiple slates in future, someone wishing to nominate several already-popular things with a lot of buzz that seem very likely to make the ballot might worry their vote for a lesser-known gem will be discounted, and the new rules might make attacks on works by a specific publisher – or other identifiable group – difficult to defend against without the defending ballots appearing to be a slate). I’ve asked for clarification on those. (I have some concerns about 4/6 – I really don’t think it is a good idea to circumscribe fans’ nominating power right now – but not as many.)

    Likewise, if you want make the case that by nominating the work of, buying the work of, or otherwise associating with authors who have views that are found to be abhorrent, genre fans are endorsing or propagating those views, please go ahead and make that case. I’m listening.

  32. Brian Z:

    If you would like to speak up strongly against slates please do so. Others might note that the closer we look at it, slates in one form or another have been present since the dawn of time, so the timing is suspicious, but go ahead and answer that concern.

    They have? And they’re perfectly fine? Great, then you can name me, say, 10 or 12 slates over the past 6 decades that were NOT voted below, or at least near, No Award once they became known. Because No Award is where fandom has traditionally sent slates to die.
    If you don’t want your work heavily No Awarded, don’t put out a political slate.

  33. Brian,

    Brad is fighting to make the awards relevant to more of fandom…

    He was actually fighting to get his mates onto the ballot.

    slates in one form or another have been present since the dawn of time,

    They haven’t.

    the timing makes it feel deliberately exclusionary

    It’s not a coincidence; EPH is directed against slates, which are a new problem.

    even a reduced strength of slates is still a problem if we have multiple slates in future

    Not an argument against EPH, which does reduce the strength of slates.

    someone wishing to nominate several already-popular things with a lot of buzz that seem very likely to make the ballot might worry their vote for a lesser-known gem will be discounted

    Just as much of a problem under the current system.

    and the new rules might make attacks on works by a specific publisher – or other identifiable group – difficult to defend against without the defending ballots appearing to be a slate

    Incomprehensible. There is no way to “attack” works by a specific publisher or other identifiable group under either the current system or EPH; therefore, there is no need to worry about enabling defence against such attacks.

  35. Brian Z is of course correct in that his rants are not taking on an James May-like level of incoherence and stupidity. I mean, what the heck does this row even mean?

    “Others might note that the closer we look at it, slates in one form or another have been present since the dawn of time, so the timing is suspicious, but go ahead and answer that concern.”

    Again, this is pure arguing of level of tobacco lobbyists. Sowing doubts, but never any arguments, never anything concrete. Beause there are no concrete examples of slates being used in the Hugos before.

  36. Does Cixin Liu withdraw because Vox Day now endorses him?

    Liu was the victim, not the beneficiary, of the puppy campaign to dominate the ballot. He therefore has no reason to withdraw.

    You pretend that you’re not able to understand this, because honest engagement with the case against slates makes defending slates impossible.

    slates in one form or another have been present since the dawn of time

    A “slate” is a set of recommendations that spans the entire ballot. This is new, and this is why it’s only now become necessary to shut down slates.

    You’ve been around for ages, and you haven’t honestly engaged this issue yet. I don’t suppose you mean to start now, do you?

  37. Brian Z:

    In the early days of April, fandom was plunged into war and they were being attacked from Boing Boing to Entertainment Weekly as a group of unrepentant racist misogynist neo-**** homophobes bent on denying awards to all but white men.

    Which is, largely, true. There are fewer of anyone but white men on their slates than any roster of nominees in many years, and they glory in all the things we’re criticizing about their bigotry – they only object to us portraying them as bad things.

    It’s up to people sympathetic to their PR lies but not the substance of their real hatreds and fears to show that they, the other people, wish not to be associated with the hateful liars.

  38. I am getting pretty damned tired of Brian Z sucking so much energy out of this community.

  39. It’s easy enough to scroll past him and those of us who are energized by engaging him. I scroll past all the stuff about YA hugos, for instance. I just don’t care enough to put any spoons into that. Wouldn’t think to ask others to shut it down, though. There’s plenty of room.

  40. Laertes:

    “Does Cixin Liu withdraw because Vox Day now endorses him?”

    Liu was the victim, not the beneficiary, of the puppy campaign to dominate the ballot. He therefore has no reason to withdraw.

    That is just Brians dishonesty. Of course he knows this, he has been told this repeatedly. But that doesn’t hinder him from trying to use VDs desperate change of mind as a weapon to defend the puppy slates. This is how a Merchant of Doubt works.

    He is goint to repat the same talking points again and again and again, regardless of how faulty or false he thinks they are. Because he thinks that if repeat them often enough, something will stick and people might tire.

  41. I think 3BP is very likely to win. That’s going to be a humiliating defeat for the puppies. We all saw them, in broad daylight, shove it right off the ballot, and it only got on when one of the people who received the stolen goods threw their nomination back in the puppies faces in disgust.

    It limped onto the ballot despite the best efforts of the puppies to keep it off, and when it wins, and even the puppies admit that it’s a worthy winner despite their interference, I can’t imagine they don’t die of shame on the spot.

  42. Because he thinks that if repeat them often enough, something will stick and people might tire.

    @Hampus: To be honest, he’s convinced me to support EPH. If he had any actual arguments against it, he would have used them. Just as your hypothetical tobacco lobbyist would have–had there actually been a case for safe use of tobacco.)

  43. The most hilarious thing about Brian Z’s anti-EPH campaign is that he’s telling a bunch of people who oppose slates on principle that they ought to oppose EPH because they might want to run slates of their own one day.

    When he sees principle he makes this face like a dog that’s been shown a card trick. He just can’t grasp it. It’s adorable.

  44. Repeating my comment on previous thread

    Nigel on June 26, 2015 at 8:26 am said:
    “Brian, you’re great on filk, you’re great on books. When you talk about Puppies and Hugos, you come across as a relentless concern troll. Your attempts at witty ripostes are all too often indistinguishable from stone lulz-seeking idiocy and have a splash radius that inflicts collateral damage on people who aren’t even near the internet. I wouldn’t bother saying any of this to you, except I get actual pangs of sympathy when I see it happen. Obviously, you don’t have to believe me, and you shouldn’t feel obliged to let anyone else tell you what you should or shouldn’t post about, but there you go.”

    Me: It’s this Brian. Often when JJ & Hampus call you on your misrepresentations, I find myself nodding in agreement. I would have done the same (probably in a more polite manner) had I been willing to expend spoons. I know you have mad-skills at filk & are knowledgable on SFF. I have seen you write insightful concise comments, so it’s not like you don’t have the requisite writing skills, which is why it is so obvious when you don’t.

    Brian,
    Dude, you’re doing it again.

  45. @ Laertes

    I think 3BP is very likely to win.

    I don’t know, I think it’s going to be TGE honestly. I think it’ll be close though.

  46. @Laertes:

    I think 3BP is very likely to win. That’s going to be a humiliating defeat for the puppies.

    Nah, ’cause you see they endorsed it once it made the ballot by Kloos declining his nomination. So if it wins they will declare victory. “We have always been at war with endorsed Eurasia Three-Body Problem.”

  47. @Gabriel F. & @ Laertes,

    My current top spot is TGE with TBP second and I’m two-thirds of the way through Ancillary Sword. At this point, I would be fine with any of these three winning.

  48. Stories:
    Most of my favorites have already been mentioned, but I don’t remember seeing:

    Heinlein, All You Zombies

    Hasn’t it recently been made into a movie? I think I saw something about that but can’t remember what or when or where.

    And some classics for cat lovers:

    Cordwainer Smith, The Game of Rat and Dragon

    Fritz Leiber, Space-Time for Springers

    Saki, Tobermory

    Guilty pleasures:

    Susan Wittig Albert’s series “The Cottage Tales of Beatrix Potter.” Quasi-English cozy historical mysteries, embarrassingly twee, and probably full of inaccuracies because they are written by an American, but I love them anyway. There is a strong fantasy element in that the animals talk, although the humans can’t understand them. The animals also have anthropomorphic private lives kept secret from the humans; there is, for example, a well-furnished inn operated by badgers.

  49. Likewise, if you want make the case that by nominating the work of, buying the work of, or otherwise associating with authors who have views that are found to be abhorrent, genre fans are endorsing or propagating those views, please go ahead and make that case. I’m listening.

    I’ll make the case that if you are not a racist misogynist, it is unwise (putting it mildly) to join forces with a racist misogynist in a political project. And the slatemongers made it abundantly clear (and continue to do so) that the slates were not a contribution to aesthetic debate, but a political project directed at opponents of racism, misogyny and homophobia.

  50. I don’t know, I think it’s going to be TGE honestly. I think it’ll be close though.

    I hope so. I’m voting for TGE. I can’t explain why I loved it so much, but I did. I felt fiercely protective of that book, like it was some precious fragile thing that shouldn’t exist but miraculously does. That response is totally irrational and idiosyncratic and I make no attempt to justify that vote on artistic grounds. That emotional response is so unique and baffling to me that I’m voting just on that basis alone.

    But I think 3BP probably has broader appeal. Puppies have instructions to vote for it and I expect they’ll make up at least a third of the voting population. It’s got broader appeal than the urban fantasy of TGE, and flashier flash than the more cerebral AS. I’d give 3:2 odds against anything else winning.

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