aka The Genre That Day Stood Still
In the roundup today: Craig R., L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright, Sanford Begley, George R.R. Martin, Sarah A. Hoyt, Brad K. Horner, Lis Carey, Patrick May, William Reichard, Fred Kiesche and mysterious others. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Daniel Dern and Glenn Hauman.)
Craig R. on Boston Progressive
“’Just this one teensy, tiny little change…’” – June 4
One of the great divides in SF/F right now is between groups of readers that want to claim SF and Fantasy as purely descriptive entertainment, the epitome of escape literature, just living in shared authorial moments of the storyteller entertaining us at the fair, or in the tavern, with no other motive express, implied or accepted. You pays your pennies on the drumhead for the entertainment and that’s all you want to see and hear.
On the other side of the table or those who say that all stories have some ulterior external dimension, some subtext, some “message.” There is no choice, there is always subtext, whether the author means for inclusion or not. It is inevitable.
In the Interests Of Full Disclosure, I will tell you that I belong in the second camp: not from any skill at analysis, nor any training in critical literature theory, just cause it seems like the way things are.
From my viewpoint, the very act of reaching for the ability to entertain, or the ability to make any kind of contact with the intended audience requires an assumption of commonality of fundamental background points.
L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright interview for Superversive SF
“Interview with Hugo Nominee: Arlan Andrews, Sr.!” – June 4
1) All the Sad Puppies selections came from a list of stories that fans felt were their favorites from 2014. What about your story do you think brought it to the attention of whomever suggested it?
Presumably, because they liked the setting, the characters, and the story of my novella, “Flow.” “Flow” was the sequel to 2013’s “Thaw,” (the cover for which won the Analog Reader’s Award for Best Cover of 2013). The whole series of stories takes place after the next Ice Age (a politically incorrect supposition in itself), and the protagonist, Rist, is himself quite politically incorrect, though dark-skinned; he is a diminutive, sexist smartass (as are most males in the primitive society in which he was raised) and his mouth gets him literally into deep shit. The story, actually a vignette, ends in a (literal) cliff-hanger that will be followed by “Fall,” where Rist descends into yet another kind of society existing some 30,000 years from now. It will likely be called non-PC as well, though I have to remind people that authors are not necessarily the same as their characters.
Alex on Ada’s Technical Books and Cafe
“Madeline Ashby: Fiction Writer and Futurist” – June 4
One particularly poignant statement we both picked up on was made in the context of the controversy surrounding the 2015 Hugo Awards. Madeline [Ashby] said that we all have a tendency to “presume people think like (we) do, but generally, they don’t.” Though perhaps a bit of an obvious statement, I think it is equally powerful. Whether positively or negatively, humans must regularly navigate the disparity between our processes of thinking. Imbuing your actions with a recognition of difference may be a way to bridge gaps between people approaching a conflict in different ways, or at least a way to mitigate frustration when questionable (or outright despicable) decisions are made.
Alanaburke.com
“Local editor earns prestigious science fiction/fantasy award nomination – Ottawaherald.com” – June 4
“I was quite stunned and surprised [when I first heard] frankly due to the fact that I’ve just been executing this for concerning 6 years and I’ve just got four anthologies under my belt,” Schmidt said. “I’m relatively new, so to me it seemed earlier in my job compared to I would certainly have actually expected for something adore that to happen. I was thrilled and humbled at the exact same time that people believe I’m great enough to receive a nomination due to the fact that it is a fairly prestigious award. There was a great deal of excitement and happiness mixed in there as well.”
That happiness will certainly travel along with Schmidt to Spokane, Washington, where the awards will certainly be presented Aug. 22 at the 73rd Globe Science Fiction Convention. The Hugo Awards, named after pioneering science fiction magazine “Incredible Stories” founder Hugo Gernsback, are provided annually for the very best science fiction and fantasy functions of the previous year, according to a news release.
Sanford Begley on The Otherwhere Gazette
“The Puppies need to thank these recruiters”
The Sad Puppies really do need to thank some people who are not of their number. I’ve been watching this fiasco as someone who is in sympathy with the SP movement without being one myself. The truth for the rank and file SP members is basically that they were informed that they could vote on the Hugos and actually get books they liked on the ballot. From the point of view of the rank and file Puppies this was information on how-to and some recommendations they could follow, but were not required to. Most of the rank and file used some of the suggestions and substituted others as they saw fit. Admittedly this did cause those who did not have enough recommendations in their own reading to use the list as a source for filling out the rest of the nominations. After all, they knew a bit about Brad Torgerson and Larry Correia and could rely on them to suggest good books. Which they could then read in the voter packet and vote upon.
[This author needs to correct a tendency to misspell everybody’s name – “Brad Torgerson,” “Teresa Nielson Hayden,” “Patrick Hayden Nielson,” “Betsy Wolheim,” “N.K. Jemison.” I leave aside one other that was clearly intentional, but always remember, intentional misspellings are meaningless when true errors abound.]
George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog
“Catching Up” – June 4
— Conquest was cool. The KC fen throw a great con. And I was heartened by all the people who came up to thank me for my posts about the Hugos. Even in the nation’s heartland, it seems, there is considerable fannish anger about the Sad and Rabid Puppies pooping on our awards,
— Yes, Puppygate has continued, though I’ve been too busy to post about it. The Sad Puppies continue to be clueless, moving their goalposts almost daily. The Rabid Puppies continue to be venomous. Lots of other people are reading the Hugo nominees and reviewing the finalists. That’s what I am doing myself, though I am way behind in my reading,
Sarah A. Hoyt
“The Condescension of the Elites” – June 4
In fact, if one wades into the Sad Puppy mess (here, wear galoshes. You’ll need it) the side that says things like “You’re not true fans” or “your tastes are just low” or “your writing is bad” or “Our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” or “you’ll never work in this town again” or “for daring talk against us, you’ll never win a Hugo” is not the Puppy supporters.
This is because the “power” at least if understood as traditional publishing power, in this field is NOT from puppy supporters. The people opposing the puppies (not their lickspittles running around blogs shouting the crumbs that fall from their masters’ tables) are powers in the field: well established editors with power of the purse; writers who get publicity campaigns and push and huge advances; critics who have for years been reviewing the “well regarded” stuff and establishing a taste that is Marxism with a mix of glitterati, or in other words, positional good leftism.
You’d think that people who have been extensively indoctrinated in Marxism would understand the difference between “establishment power” and “economic power” and the revolutionaries who come in saying “But you’ve been going wrong by alienating the reading public; we don’t give a hot damn what your political opinions are, but you need to tell stories people want to read, and if you don’t people should be able to participate in the intervention to make you see why your print runs keep falling.”
I.e. they would understand that they are in fact on the side that is being condescending by virtue of having all the power in the field, including power of the purse.
Brad K. Horner
“Flight of the Kikayon: A Sci-Fi Novelette by Kary English” – June 4
My rating: 4 of 5 stars
This is a crisp and gloriously clear adventure story of a woman trying to escape her abusive husband with the help of her clone. I was touched. It really had heart.
Of course, the planet where she eventually wound up, swiss family robinson style, had one hell of a fascinating sea monster in it, so that’s a huge plus.
The story made me think about love and children, but not exclusively, and not oppressively. It was warming, not frantic, and I really enjoyed the ride. Crisp and gloriously clear sums it up very nicely, from writing, to imagery, to themes. Nothing was out of place and it felt inevitable. Which is very strange, considering that she wound up stranded and losing everything. Who am I to argue about the vagaries of fate or authorship?
I read this in preparation for the Campbell nomination of 2015, and I’m proud to say I read it, regardless. It shines.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
“The Sci Phi Show, presented by Jason Rennie” – June 3
The Sci Phi Show discusses major philosophers and schools of philosophy illuminated in science fiction, fairly broadly defined. In the sample episode, it’s Nietzsche and the movie The Dark Knight. It’s an intelligent, thoughtful discussion, with good production values, accompanied by odd, distracting sound effects. There’s also opening and closing theme music that tries hard to give me a headache.
Patrick May
“2015 Hugo Award Novella Category” – June 4
[Each nominee is analyzed, then this conclusion — ]
My Hugo ballot for this category is:
- Flow
- Big Boys Don’t Cry
- The Plural of Helen of Troy
- No Award
- One Bright Start to Guide Them
- Pale Realms of Shade
Aside from the first two, the entries in this category are disappointing. There were far better novellas published in 2014 in Analog and Asimov’s alone. “Big Boys Don’t Cry”, while not as good as “Flow”, is certainly no worse than some nominees and winners in the past. I’m leaving “The Plural of Helen of Troy” slightly above No Award solely because Wright plays with (and occasionally loses to) some classic science fiction concepts. Overall it’s not really Hugo worthy, though.
William Reichard
“Apres Hugo” – June 4
After a lively day of schussing down the slippery slopes of unwinnable arguments, you’re pleasantly stupefied. Now you just want to relax and kick back, are we right?
That’s why when you get back to the toasty comfort of your own ideological hearth, you should reach for Hubik.
Hubik has everything a tired mind craves: a refreshing illusion of efficacy, a promise of persistent meaning, and a soothing anesthetic effect that will help you drift off to an untroubled sleep. Just spray a little around your armchair, and presto! The perfect ending to another day of lovely mountain sport.…
https://twitter.com/ShiftlessBum/status/606575118580482048
https://twitter.com/FredKiesche/status/606530903175778306
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… no, no. The Dingolarity.
JJ: she also has a “Master’s Equivalent in Modern Languages and Literature with a major in English”. So a university trained and certified her in brutalizing the English language until it’s willing to confess to anything so long as people stop hitting it.
The Ruff Guide to Sadpuppyland
To be fair to Sarah A. Hoyt, anyone can make a less than perfectly coherent posting when they feel under attack from all around. The round-the-clock nature of the Internet can leave people with no break in which to grab some perspective and rally their resources. A seemingly incoherent posting may be a sign that it’d be better to give that poster a break for a while, rather than responding to them.
I’ve been attempting to parse Hoyt’s claims about leftism being a “Positional Good”. (I’m not even touching her claim that leftism is just Marxism with celebrities; it’s too early for that)
A Positional Good is an economics term for a good whose consumption or possession shows your relative position, and as such it must be in some way scarce. So, there are a limited number of penthouses in the desirable parts of New York, not everyone can have one, and having one shows you are a rich so and so.
So, where’s the scarcity in being left-wing? Everyone can be left-wing if they want. I suppose the argument might be that if everyone is, no-one is, and we will need a new political spectrum.
It’s interesting because she’s been using the term in previous screeds, and it seems to feed into her claims about gatekeepers etc, because (I think…) leftism-as-positional-good would require these gatekeepers to artificially enforce scarcity.
Hoyt’s posts are historically incomprehensible. Click around her site a bit.
@Kate
The appearance of my comment below yours is unintentionally ironic.
Stopping my lurking to express admiration for Sarah A. Hoyt lumping criticisms of the writing with insults that mostly exist Puppies’ heads. That’s some high quality moving of goalposts. What else are we forbidden to say about their works? Are story lengths, titles and characters’ names allowed? How may we express our unworthy opinions without Sarah Hoyt seeing calls for torches and pitchforks?
I am sorry for that outburst but this week my tolerance for this kind of stuff is unusually low. Returning to lurkage.
I just left a polite comment on Sarah Hoyt’s blog asking her to provide citations for people saying “You’re not true fans” or “your tastes are just low” … or “Our opinion of what is good IS the maker of what is good” or “you’ll never work in this town again.” Particularly #s 1 and 5. I doubt it even makes it out of moderation.
On a lighter note, I think the money fairy might look something like this: http://i0.wp.com/nerdbastards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/madmax222.jpg
After closer investigation, I have to admit I think the posting in question is not so much the result of panicked defensiveness as political crackpottery.
You know, as frustrating as this whole mess is, I really am grateful for all the book recommendations that keep appearing on these threads and elsewhere. After a few years of reading non-fic and lit-fic I’m now happily wallowing (like a joyful hippo) in SF of all kinds.
It seems to me that the “best” books (as in “award-worthy”) are the ones that stay with you long after you’ve finished them.
The most recent book to elicit that reaction from me is Station Eleven. It’s the first post-apocalyptic novel I’ve read where I’ve come away feeling optimistic about people.
fenella on June 5, 2015 at 1:17 am said:
The most recent book to elicit that reaction from me is Station Eleven. It’s the first post-apocalyptic novel I’ve read where I’ve come away feeling optimistic about people.
I thought that Station Eleven was superb. It would have been a worthy nominee for the Hugos this year (and for me, a worthy winner).
Crouching Marxist, Hidden Alinsky
certainly seems to be what the Puppies are seeing endlessly repeated in the hot, flatulent and crowded movie theater inside their heads.
This is AWESOME. And totally true, as well as hilarious.
After reading some of the comments linked in the roundup, I’ve really come to appreciate the pronoun “s/h/it”. It gives you a quick profile of those using it right off the bat.
I was very surprised by Station Eleven. My automatic reaction to hype is to think “oh it can’t possibly be all that.” Except it really was. It definitely deserves its recent win for the Arthur C. Clarke Award.
The fact it was blurbed by Erin Morgenstern on the UK edition didn’t help matters when it came to actually picking the damn thing up, but I’m glad I did in the end.
Matt Y. :No but if they [the SPs] told me a wolf was nearby I’d require one since they’ve cried it one too many times for me to believe them.
Dude, if they wanted to use my bathroom, I’d require proof they were smart enough to know the right way around to sit on a toilet seat.
Did I miss where the non-puppies have told puppies, “You’re not true fans” ?
I assumed she was referring to people who had been wondering aloud if the GGers were involved, and if so, if they were really fans or just showed up to vote because they had been specifically called upon for support.
She might be referring to the occasional calling-out of someone who extols the virtues of the slate nominees yet who hasn’t actually read any of the works.
Neither example meets the criterion of “being told they were not a true fan,” though.
Re: Hoyt and ““you’ll never work in this town again.”
That one is a willful mis-reading of something that David Gerrold wrote on his facebook, pointing out that if Puppy authors continued to act in the bad faith manner they have and had, they were going to burn a lot of bridges with publishers. Puppies besides Hoyt have already interpreted that as a *threat* against the Puppies and their livelihood, and Ms. Hoyt simply echoes that interpretation.
I’m going to contradict Arlan Andrews here: if the story is, per your interview, an exercise in trolling the ‘politically correct'[1] then it is very hard to make the distinction between the author and the character.
In other words, if you pick the character to give offense, then you can’t use them as a fictional shield; you picked them for a reason, so we may assume that the offense given by the character is also meant to be given by the author.
In other words, typical Puppyshit: it’s always *others* who have a political message in their fiction.
[1] And yes, surely there are some people going to say that he didn’t say that, but his continual invoking of ‘political (in)correctness’ is not even a dog whistle.
Is there literally no Puppy argument that doesn’t come down to “But Scalzi! But Nielsen Hayden!”?
Mart: Is there literally no Puppy argument that doesn’t come down to “But Scalzi! But Nielsen Hayden!”?
Well, there’s ‘our SF is just as good as your SF’, I suppose. But largely it does seem to come down to that.
I don’t feel called upon to take Arlan Andrews seriously until he explains the logic and necessity of tits as worldbuilding in his story.
The main problem with reading stories on a computer is that it limits one so in the proper expression of total disgust with a piece of writing. There needs to be a something-or-other that simulates damage to the writing on one’s screen, allowing one to electronically crumple the pages, complete with that satisfying ripping sound.
It’s not that the story was the worst bit of nominated fiction, but that particular bit was inexcusable, not because it involved breasts but because it was a bad breast joke that didn’t make sense in context. I may be bitter.
Hoyt is illiterate, I grant you, but she’s also innumerate, and is retreating ever further into fantasy land as the real world keeps stubbornly refusing to stop being the real world.
After all, in the absence of a publisher prepared to pay her $3,400,000 for the stuff she writes which she’s sure is really, really, really what real readers want, fantasy is all she’s got left…
I was at burn with fire with that story. Crumpling pages would have been insufficient.
It appears now that I have clarification from two short fiction authors that they intentionally made their choices and that my take was not incorrect.
The decision to intentionally write something for the primary purpose of annoying certain people – I expect that on websites and when addressed to their niches. It does not make sense in a piece that you expect people to take seriously for a high level award.
Plus, Flow was downright tedious.
This is definitely the most important thing that’s happened.
Re: Marx
At this point, Marx is like Justin Bieber. I’d almost never hear about him at all if it wasn’t for people who dislike him constantly rabbiting on.
+1
I don’t understand he attention given to Hoyt. AFAICT she won’t run SP4 and her posts hover between the merely incomprehensible and the downright deranged. Even if she was trying to have a debate with people outside the Puppyverse (and I don’t believe she is) it’s a debate that keeps getting interrupted by screeds against the New World Order, black helicopters and the UN. When I encounter something like this I let it pass once (if possible) and if it happens again kindly tell the person they need to get a grip on themselves or we’re done talking.
@mk41
Hoyt is one of the Evil League of Evil credited with coming up with the stories on the Sad Puppy slate. Her tastes and opinions are relevant because she’s one of the people trying to force the rest of us to enjoy them.
Can anyone explain why Arlan Andrews thinks that a future iceage isa politically incorrect supposition in itself?
@Tintinaus:
I’m not sure I’d call this is an explanation, but in his own words:
Tintinaus,
His personal definition of politically incorrect has presumably stretched to mean anything that occasions partisan disagreement in the US, in this case mainstream climate science.
In other words, message fiction?
I would write a fic from the POV of the sex worker from “Flow”, who wonders why wen to the north lack breasts, how they suckle their babies, and why her breasts would be attractive to a northern man, but my cat is between me and my keyboard and typing it out would take hours.
Because if there’s an ice age then must not have happened. Or something
Er, that is, then global warming must not have happened
Meredith:
This is definitely the most important thing that’s happened.
Absolutely. I’ve got the campaign all worked out.
In the abstract, it’s certainly possible for a corporation with deep pockets to invest lots of money in products that customers don’t want to buy. (I saw this back when I worked for Nokia, or as I liked to call it, the Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic.)
@Source Decay – Lamplighter was the interviewer in that bit, the person who was going on about not being PC was the author of Flow.
“I’m struggling to understand why L. Jagi Lamplighter Wright would go on at length about her “politically incorrect” plot points and characters in a clear effort to call attention to them, and then scold people for not remembering “that authors are not necessarily the same as their characters.””
Have cake + eat cake?
@Tintinaus “Can anyone explain why Arlan Andrews thinks that a future iceage isa politically incorrect supposition in itself?”
Fundamental misunderstanding of global warming. Many people feel that it is a political issue instead of a scientific issue. Therefore, these people are convinced that scientists are lying about the climate because profit and/or they are SJWs.
So in the author’s head, having an Ice Age in the story is a Take-That! to the dread forces of climate science. Thirty years ago he’d have been trying to work in something about how smoking doesn’t really harm your lungs.
I wish Sarah Hoyt would include citations. I have *never* heard the things she puts in quote marks and claims those outside the Puppy compound have said about the Puppies and would like to see for myself who, if anyone, actually said them and in what context.
Peace Is My Middle Name on June 5, 2015 at 5:16 am said:
I wish Sarah Hoyt would include citations. I have *never* heard the things she puts in quote marks and claims those outside the Puppy compound have said about the Puppies and would like to see for myself who, if anyone, actually said them and in what context.
This is a forlorn hope. Much of what the Puppies say relies on the strawmen that they frenetically construct. They are actually quite creative when it comes to inventing insults and names for themselves.
Pfft. Andrews thinks a future ice age is sticking it to the climate scientists?
Dude, we are in an ice age right now, have been for two million years. Do you know, historically, how very rare it is for the Earth to have permanent ice at the north and south poles year-round?
Hopefully humans won’t have to find out, given that our entire evolutionary history has happened during one ice age.
At any rate, the human effect on global climate is there; it’s been stupid willful blindness to say otherwise for decades. But it’s not a simple matter of things getting warmer. We’re pumping *chaos* into a chaotic system.
Scientists still are not certain why the Earth seems to have entirely frozen solid, poles to (nearly) equator, around 700 million years ago, nor why or how it could have thawed out again afterwards. Climate is *complex.*
@fenella: You know, as frustrating as this whole mess is, I really am grateful for all the book recommendations that keep appearing on these threads and elsewhere.
I am completely in agreement. It’s been incredible. Also I went back and picked up some Cherryh that I hadn’t been able to find in ebook format. Whoever mentioned closed-circle.net — I’m so sorry I don’t remember your handle, but thanks.
Hey, can today’s thread not turn into 100% unmarked spoilers for Radch books? I haven’t finished either of them.
Just so that I’m not merely complaining, here are rot13 plugins for Firefox and Chrome that one might use.
*grumble* Sure, the Earth has been warmer than it is now. The oceans have been higher. The mix of carbon dioxide and oxygen has been different.
But how much of humanity lives within a few meters of sea level?
So Balk and some colleagues used satellite data to map out places along the coast that have low elevations — less than 30 feet above sea level. Then, to find out who lived there, they looked at census figures from 224 countries.
The numbers showed that low-elevation areas are home to 634 million people.
“Roughly one in 10 persons in the world lives in this low-elevation coastal zone,” Balk says.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9162438
Neither it is mine. It is perfectly possible to master a foreign language enough to articulate one’s thoughts clearly in it, and IIRC, she is a published writer.
What we are seeing is confirmation bias. Some of the things she points to have been said. They have been said here. There is a difference though: Every time the kind of BS Hoyt mentions is brought up, someone attempts to refute it and the general agreement is that the accusations aren’t true, even if the people making them are really loud. Compare that to the Puppieverse where accusations are made, nobody refutes them and the masses cheer on those who make them. Let’s look at her specific examples one-by-one:
SP is a Slate: This one is true by any objective definition of slate. It is even the language used by Torgersen.
SP Bought Votes: I have certainly seen these allegations made. Those making them are insistent. That being said, every time it gets bought up the lack of proof is pointed out and most people don’t dog pile on the point.
SP Works Are Bad Writing: Anti-Puppies make this accusation in spades. But so do the Puppies. Some of it is “I don’t like it, so it must be bad”. Some of it is legitimate, if competing, ideas about aesthetics. Welcome to the world of fannish literary criticism.
SP Are Not True Fans: Remember all of the times Puppies have been accused of being “GGers in disguise” and people try to question their fannish credentials? Yah, that’s what Hoyt is talking about here. Seriously, cut it out.
Now, the rest of Hoyt’s rant is unsupportable garbage. But it is important to acknowledge that she is correct about a few things, acknowledge our sins unless we become the things we despise about the Puppies.
After reading the entire run of File770 roundups and linked posts; after a month of research and reading commentary on both sides of the argument, I have come to the conclusion that the Puppies are not just wrong, but fractally wrong. The conspiracy against which they are fighting never existed in the first place, and all the attempts to re-interpret past events in the light of the non-existent “SJW cabal” only moves their arguments farther and farther from any semblance of real-world, er, reality.
Thanks to exponentially increasing access to information people are reading a wider variety of fiction from a wider variety of writers. That will inevitably lead to both refinement of taste and focus of interest. That’s not a conspiracy, it’s progress.
And if I read the stats correctly (I am not a statistician), the “traditional rockets and ray guns sci fi” slice of the pie isn’t getting smaller; rather, the pie itself is getting larger. I consider that to be a very, very good thing.
Rick Perlstein wrote an excellent essay some years ago on how prominent and influential con artists have always been in American movement conservatism
I think this, more than anything, is the accurate way to approach characters like VD. The man is a grifter. For all the outrage he manufactures, it appeals to a fringe group that flocks to him and is happy to throw money his way so long as he seems to be fighting the good fight. The entire Hugo situation is nothing but a scam for him to earn the publicity that his talent can’t, and entice a small group of hardcore followers to financially support him. It’s Alex Jones without the audience. I have no doubt that within six months, his publishing house will include links to buying gold coins, Prepper food packs and herbal cures to diabetes.