aka Chronicle of a Slate Foretold
Hitched to the sled today are Spacefaring Kitten, David Gerrold, Vox Day, Jim Henley, John C. Wright, Jim C. Hines, Lis Carey, Martin Wisse, Chris Gerrib, Joe Sherry, Rebekah Golden, Bob Snyder, and the masterpiece of Brian Z. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Rev. Bob and Kary English.)
Spacefaring Kitten on Spacefaring, Extradimensional Kittens
Unfisk / refisk / fisk² – May 19
All I know about smoking ruins is that if that’s to happen, Elric the Prince of Ruins will be pleased. Frankly, I don’t think that anything is truly lost in either case. A Puppy-sponsored work getting a Hugo is not the end of the world and there have been weak winners in the past (and maybe all Puppy-nominated works aren’t that weak). No Award winning means that the majority of the Worldcon voters didn’t enjoy the works on the Rabid Puppies slate (plus the two or three additions that Sad Puppies managed to get up there on their own) and/or they weren’t ready to give in to a campaign of tactical voting, and that’s fine too.
I wonder who are the “CHORFs” Brad’s talking about there. Kevin J. Maroney hasn’t been suggesting that you should vote No Award over everything, slate or not. Neither has Teresa Nielsen Hayden, or Steve Davidson, or Anita Sarkeesian, or John Scalzi, or Karl Marx, or Barack Obama. I’ve been following the discussion rather closely and I remember reading one single blog post in which someone said that the voters should do a blanket No Award thing, and I think nobody was very keen on the idea.
Brad, is it possible that you’re exaggerating?
David Gerrold on Facebook – May 18
Coming back to a comment someone made here about “threats of ostracism” — no.
In all the articles I’ve seen, nobody has said, “We’re going to shun X, Y, and Z.”
Because … nobody in fandom has the power to lock anyone out.
But what is possible is that people will choose on their own not to associate with those who they perceive as toxic.
It’s not even an organized boycott. It’s just a personal reaction.
An example from the 70s: There was a C-list author whose behavior toward women was so creepy that when he entered a room, several of the women would quietly and discreetly excuse themselves and leave. He was never specifically ostracized — but individuals were choosing to spend their time elsewhere. That’s the most you’ll ever see in fandom.
And here’s how that works on the larger level:
There are opportunities that are occasionally offered to authors. You get invited to speak, you get handed an award, you get to be a Guest of Honor, sometimes you even get a lifetime achievement plaque. All very nice. But if you have a reputation for being hard to work with, and there are a lot of authors and artists who have that reputation — or if you’re the center of a major controversy, one that you created yourself — the organizers of those opportunities are going to look elsewhere for honorees.
Vox Day on Vox Popoli
“King Log or King Stork?” – May 19
The moment that the SJWs in the science fiction community decided they could exclude individuals from it (and whether the SFWA expulsion was technically real or not is irrelevant in this regard), that meant the open community concept was dead. The principle was established. Now we can exclude Eskimos, people with big noses, people with little noses, people who look funny, or people who smell bad; in short, we can openly exclude anyone we have the power and the desire to exclude. There is no longer free speech in science fiction.
There is no longer freedom of expression or thought. It is now a simple ideological power game and we are ready to play that game with extreme prejudice. There is no need for discourse. There is no need for dialogue, for compromise, or negotiations. There is nothing to discuss. They laid out the new rules.
They laid out the new consensus. We not only accept them, we’re going to use make far more ruthless use of them than they ever imagined. Once we were content to let the twisted little moral freaks do and think and say what they wanted, but now they have claimed the right to tell US what to do and think and say we’re not going to tolerate them anymore. We are the sons of the Crusades and the daughters of the Inquisitions. This is a game we know how to win.
Jim Henley on Unqualified Offerings
“The Puppies of This Generation and the Trainers of Ever Afterwards” – May 19
What occasioned considerable jocularity in comments was Wright’s statement that
For the record, I write literary fiction…
People laughed at this because many of them have read Wright’s stories and/or essays and found them to be bad. But I have no problem with Wright’s claim whatsoever. Not because I think his stories and essays are actually good. I haven’t read them. People who seem to be acute readers have found his Hugo-nominated work wanting or worse, but even if, as I suspect, they’ve got it right, I still have no problem with Wright calling his own work “literary fiction.”
John C. Wright in a comment on File 770 – May 19
I notice this debate consists of two points, endlessly repeated: We say that for which we stand, what our goals and methods and motives are, publicly and repeatedly. The enemy pretends we said something else and that are motives are whatever impure and horrible impulse happens to be at hand. We state that we said what we said and that our motives are what we said. The enemy pretends we did not say it. And repeat.
Now, just as a matter of logic, who has access to knowledge about our inner secret motives? How did we communicate our goals to each other and to our voters aside from public statements of our goals?
https://twitter.com/ProtestManager/status/600578695925993472
Jim C. Hines
“Hugo Thoughts: Short Fiction” – May 19
No Award will be scoring pretty high in this category. That doesn’t mean I think all of the stories are bad. (Though I don’t think they’re all good, either.) But it’s one thing for a story to be competent or interesting or fun. It’s another thing for that story to be award-worthy, for me to consider it one of the best things published in the past year. Four of these stories don’t clear that bar for me, and the fifth I’ll have to think about a little more.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
“The Plural of Helen of Troy (from the collection City Beyond Time), by John C. Wright” – May 19
There’s a plot here, but time travel can make even a simple plot complicated, and Wright has no interest in people following the story. The nonlinear storytelling was a “feature” I didn’t need in a story where I already had difficulty caring what happened to the characters.
Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library
“Pale Realms of Shade (in The Book of Feasts & Seasons), by John C. Wright” – May 20
Based on reading all the other Wright fiction nominees, I kept waiting for this to go bad places. It didn’t. It’s a solid story that, given it is explicitly religious fiction, expresses beliefs and values that have a strong and positive resonance for me. It won’t work for other people for the very reasons it does work for me, and it’s not so good that it blows me away, but this is the first of the Puppy nominees whose placement on my ballot I will have to think seriously about.
Martin Wisse on Wis[s]e Words
“My gods it’s full of puppy poo!” – May 19
That gets you two of last year’s best novels and nobody will force you to read the Kevin J. Anderson. Many of the other categories are of course soiled with Puppy droppings you don’t want even if free, but there are some gems among the dross. Especially so in the Best Graphic Story category, with no Puppy nominee included and complete PDFs of Sex Criminals Vol. 1, Saga Vol. 3, Ms Marvel Vol. 1 and Rat Queens Vol. 1.
Though the Hugo Voting Packet should be seen as a bonus, rather than an inalienable part of buying a supporting membership for Worldcon, for plenty of people this of course has been the main benefit of membership, after getting to vote for the Hugos and all that. For those people this year’s packet is far from a bargain, despite the presence of the books listed above. Another reason to smack down the Puppies..
Chris Gerrib on Private Mars Rocket
“Hugo Packet – Thoughts” – May 19
Best Related Mike Williamson’s Wisdom From My Internet is everything the Amazon preview promised, namely random crap half-assedly puked into book format. Yeah, I get that it was parody, but I’m not amused by it. Antonelli’s Letters from Gardner is better (small praise indeed) but seems mostly an excuse for an anthology of Antonelli’s short fiction. No Award for the whole category.
Joe Sherry on Adventures in Reading
“Thoughts on the Hugo Award Nominees: Short Story” – May 19
“On a Spiritual Plain” / “A Single Samurai”: One thing that I found very interesting about reading through the nominated short works is that they pair very closely in my head in how I would rank them. Antonelli’s story of a faith (of sorts) on an alien world and a man trying to lead a human spirit to wherever “moving on” turns out to be. It’s a simple story, but cleanly told. The comparison between human faith and that of the alien is interesting. “A Single Samurai”, on the other hand, is a story of action, of one samurai taking on a kaiju about to terrorize the samurai’s land. There is a certain spirituality to the samurai’s thoughts and actions and an economy to the movement and pacing of the story. On a different day, I could flip my ranking of these two stories.
Rebekah Golden
‘2015 Hugo Awards Best TV Show: Reviewing Orphan Black” – May 18
I can easily see how the whole series deserves a Hugo and this episode definitely has individual merit.
Rebekah Golden
“2015 Hugo Awards Best Graphic Story: Reviewing Sex Criminals” – May 18
Well this one definitely captured the “graphic” part of graphic story.
Rebekah Golden
“2015 Hugo Awards Best TV Show: Reviewing Grimm” – May 19
It was good, it was entertaining but I’m hung up on the history of the Hugo Award and the depth of respect I feel for past winners. Grimm is good, and this episode is good, but it’s not that good.
Adult Onset Atheist
“SNARL: Turncoat” – May 19
For a story where there is so much happening there is very little going on.
Trying to avoid Puppy slates and some publishers providing only excerpts is making #Hugo Award voting much simpler! #noaward @TheHugoAwards
— Bob Snyder (@fordan) May 19, 2015
Brian Z. on File 770 – May 19
The outlook wasn’t brilliant for Castalia House that day;
The score stood 16 of 20 with one story out of play.
And then when Kloos withdrew at first, and Bellet did the same,
A sickly silence fell upon the patrons of the game.A straggling few turned off the stream in deep despair. The rest
Clung to that hope which springs eternal in the human breast;
They thought if only John C. Wright could get a whack at that–
We’d put up even money now with John Wright at the bat.But Vox preceded John Wright, as did Bryan Thomas Schmidt,
Resnick already had 36, and Schubert, he had quit;
So upon that Evil League of Pups a pall was settling in,
For there seemed but little chance for John Wright’s editor to win.Thomas Schmidt’s Kickstarter was still in its final surge,
And Vox, the much despised, had so far failed to reemerge;
And when the list was opened, and the pups saw what had occurred,
There was Resnick safe at second and poor Bryan hugging third.Then from 5,000 pups and more there rose a lusty bark;
It echoed through the group blogs, it rattled Riverfront Park;
It blasted like a ray gun shining from the Golden Age,
For John Wright, mighty John Wright, was advancing to the stage.There was ease in John Wright’s manner as he stepped into his place;
There was pride in John Wright’s bearing and a smile on John Wright’s face.
And when, responding to the cheers, he lightly doffed his hat,
No rabbit in the crowd could doubt ’twas John Wright at the bat.Ten thousand eyes were on him as he dipped his pen in ink;
The hoi polloi applauded as he urged them to the brink.
Then as Social Justice Warriors began to jibe and snip,
Defiance flashed in John Wright’s eye, a sneer curled John Wright’s lip.And now the silver-plated rocket came from off the stage,
And John Wright stood a-watching it in haughty grandeur there.
Close by the sturdy penman the trophy unheeded sped–
“Remember, nits make lice,” said John Wright. “No Award,” the Emcee said.From Ustream, thick with puppies, there went up a muffled howl,
While Torgersen swooped in again like Weasley’s Great Gray Owl.
“BOO HIM! BOO THE CHORF!” shouted someone in the thread;
And it’s likely they’d have booed him had not John Wright raised his head.With a smile of Christian charity great John Wright’s visage shone;
He stilled the rising tumult; he bade the show go on;
He signaled to the Emcee, and once more the rocket flew;
But John Wright still ignored it, and Mr. Gerrold said, “Strike two.”“Fraud!” cried the rabid puppies, and echo answered fraud;
But one scornful look from John Wright and the audience was awed.
They saw his face grow stern and cold, they saw his fingers strain,
And they knew that John Wright wouldn’t let that rocket by again.The sneer is gone from John Wright’s lip, his teeth are clenched in rage;
He scratches with hyperbole his pen upon the page.
And as Due holds the envelope, he continues to compose,
And now the air is shattered by the force of John Wright’s prose.Oh, somewhere on the favored fen the sun is shining bright;
The filk is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And somewhere pups are yelping, and somewhere children shout;
But there is no joy at Sasquan –mighty John Wright has struck out.
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Huh. Had a look.
Looks like Theodore Beale is whipping up his minions to “burn down” the graphic story Hugo category.
The dog ate my homework is a Thing over here, too.
@peace
what does that mean?
@Influxus:
I hesitate to assert what’s going on in any of the Puppies’ heads, but from the context it looks like some of them want to “No Award” the entire graphic story ballot to … show those SJWs or something?
I suspect it is because none of them bothered to nominate anything but that one not-so-good graphic story, so here is a part of the ballot they can safely vent their rage on.
It is also possible that some of them are calculating that a lot of Hugo voters will leave the category untouched so they can have as disproportionate effect on this one category as they did on the entire nomination ballot, and thus can have something they spoiled to crow about should the Hugo awards prove a fiasco for them.
“Bruce Baugh on May 20, 2015 at 8:26 am said: . Like, the benefits of collective action don’t mysteriously go away when it’s a union rather than a corporation. … to having specialists administer insurance for a lot of people rather than making everyone responsible for their own. Defined-benefits pensions, stable social services, and the like are desirable, because the ability to formulate and rely on long-term plans is just as good an idea as Hayek”
Unions are nothing but an extra tax that only benefits the worst workers. Obamacare was designed to take health care money away from old Asians and Whites and give it to illegals. Asians & whites were better off with catastrophic coverage policies until they hit 50 or had kids. Future time preference is the PC way of saying smart enough to be capable of abstract thought. There is no productive person out there who couldn’t make better use of the money put into social security than they can get out. The value of the dollar dropped 25% in Bath House Barry’s first term, if you melt down $10 face value worth of pre 1965 quarters you get around $180 worth of silver.
How Much is That Puppy in the Manger?
Petréa Mitchell: there is also this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett_First_Novel_Award
I’m not sure what will happen with this award, but having an award named after you is also an occasional accolade for the genre’s standouts.
If ABC and D were left out of Lord of the Rings, then yes, you are correct, it would have been much less interesting.
It is interesting that you elide right past the point that it is a common criticism of The Lord of the Rings that Sauron is a poorly developed character. The story is mostly saved by the inclusion of the variety of supporting villainous characters – Saruman, Gollum, Wormtongue, and so on – all of whom are better characterized than Rzasa’s villain.
And comparing the amount of world and character development which can occur within a 5,000 word short story as compared to the Lord of the Rings, in unfair. That said, Rzasa did an excellent job setting the scene, and the motivations, within the limited canvas he employed.
First off, you’re the one who brought up the Lord of the Rings. For you to now start whining that the comparison isn’t fair is a bit rich. In addition, Rzasa didn’t have to create a panoply of characters like Tolkien did. He only had to create a decently developed single villain, and he failed utterly at that.
I just read volume 30 of the Writers of the Future series and almost every story had better world building and character development than Rzasa managed to accomplish in Turncoat. Heck, the characterization in Turncoat was weaker than that found in most episodes of Scooby Doo. When old man Jones running around in a ghoul mask is a better developed villain than your villainous AI, your story has problems.
Matt Y on May 20, 2015 at 9:32 am said: “killed the open community concept turning it into a power game that excuses any behavior. But then he makes it seem like Fandom should’ve rejected people in the past, like child molesters”
Can’t you understand he is pointing out hypocrisy? Your side wants to ban based on badthink but not badtouch. I was banned from a place that was making fun of hicks in Indiana not getting applewatches for saying: “Apple’s CEO cries for a boy cot because he wont be served pizza at his wedding yet gleefully commences commerce with nations that execute gays”. Do you see the hypocrisy there? I had a boyfriend I was sleeping with for over 8 months that said “I don’t believe in guns” I asked him what he thought the thing on the nightstand was. We broke up shortly after I said “You do believe in guns because you live in a gated community with an armed guard at the gate between you and any non-Asian minorities, if you didn’t believe in guns you wouldn’t have a man with a gun between you and die verse city.”
Looks like Theodore Beale is whipping up his minions to “burn down” the graphic story Hugo category.
It probably irks Beale that the non-Puppy graphic novel nominees are making the crap he got onto the ballot look bad by being as good as they are.
@Peace Is My Middle Name:
Do the Puppies not understand that the final voting uses a different (less gameable) system to the nominating process? Or do they think that most of the 8676* Worldcon members are Puppies too?
*At current count. http://sasquan.org/member-numbers/
Soon Lee: my answer to that is a combination “The dreadful Elks need something to keep them revved up, the actual chance of success of the ACME ‘genius’ plan doesn’t matter” and “the dreadful elks and Vox are bad at maths, and logic”
Do the down on the ground members of the Rabid Puppies know? If they do they haven’t been saying anything. Does VD? Yes. If he thought he had the votes to give something truly offensive he award he would. Instead he’s been teasing that he’ll create “HUGO CHAOS! OMG!” That’s much more doable, especially if it No Award has as much support among the voters as it does among the bloggers and wonks like me.
oh, and Vox may end up saying “well, we were trying to get GN no awarded, and ended up getting Short story no awarded instead, but thats kinda the same thing, so we win. Aristotle!”
@MickeyFinn
I cannot help it: I now imagine VD raising his hand and pronouncing “Aristotle!” much the same way the Tick, IIRC, did “Spoon!”
Steven: I’m imagining it as a coked out Charlie Sheen saying “Winning!”, but a lot less loveable.
Can’t say I’m troubled by VD’s plan to No Award the graphic novels. If it turns out his minions have got the voting strength to do that, then they’ll be getting their way everywhere else too, so what’s one more pile of rubble in the ruins? And if they don’t, then it’s one more thing they’ve failed at.
Soon Lee: If the guess about the demographics of VD’s followers is correct and most of them are either not SF readers or just not involved with fandom, they may not know how the voting works. So considering the success of the slate, they may believe that they can take one of the smaller categories where the fans will split the votes between the 4 valid works. What VD believes is anyone’s guess – he can be outright lying (uhm or was it using rhetoric?), he may really be believing he has a chance to do that or who knows what. At the end of the day it will keep his followers occupied and not looking at what really is happening and how his claims are crumbling. 🙂
A number of those Graphic Story nominees have dark skinned women as main characters. No wonder Beale’s crew is upset.
And a special note to the person who’s upset that Schlock Mercenary was pushed off the list this year… gee, who’s been nominating things that push other worthy stories off the list?
At the end of the day it will keep his followers occupied and not looking at what really is happening and how his claims are crumbling.
And if it fails, he can claim that this is evidence that the Hugo gatekeepers have cheated in order to foil his obviously stronger cadre of minions.
I had some very weird Blake’s 7 headcanon for a while: the very first episode I saw was actually the very *last* episode. And then the next week, the PBS station started over. So from my perspective, Blake and all his companions were captured, and then we meet amnesiac Blake. It made perfect sense for about 6 episodes!
Laertes way above:
chair vs. stair
Thanks for helping polish this. I think I’ve decided I like “stair” more than “chair,” so either “came from off the stair” or “traveled down the stair” seems to work OK.
Glen Hauman, way way above:
John C… Rhyming with Casey makes for a stronger echo.
Sure, but on the other hand John Wright is just a great name for a ballplayer (cricketer, ice hockey player, boxer, footballer, coach…)
Not to mention the John Wright the Catholic who conspired in 1605 to blow up the House of Lords.
Googling just now also introduced me to a historical baseball scandal I don’t think I’d ever heard of:
Wright was a New Orleans-born, 5’11”, 175-lbs, right-handed pitcher who started his professional career with the New Orleans Zulus in 1936 at age 17. The Zulus were as much sports entertainment as a legitimate baseball team, in the mold of the Harlem Globetrotters of the era.
Wright was known as a speedy pitcher with good control and a sharp curve. Opponents described Wright as throwing harder than Satchel Paige.
In late October 1945 Branch Rickey made the announcement of the Jackie Robinson signing. Rickey likewise announced the signing of Wright on January 29, 1946, making him the second officially recognized African-American to sign a contract with organized baseball during the integration era. In reality, Wright had likely signed months earlier. Two weeks after the Robinson announcement, the Negro Leagues issued a protest to baseball Commissioner Happy Chandler claiming that Rickey was tampering with their players.
Some speculated that Rickey merely wanted a compatriot for Robinson during his first spring in organized ball, a speculation that Clyde Sukeforth, Rickey’s scout, agreed with: “I don’t think that the reports indicated that Johnny Wright was an outstanding pitcher, but apparently Mr. Rickey thought he would be an excellent companion [for Robinson].” Other reports were more complimentary of Wright. Influential black sports writer Sam Lacy of the Baltimore Afro-American said: “Wright doesn’t boast the college background that is Jackie’s, but he possesses something equally valuable – a level head and the knack of seeing things objectively. He is a realist in a role which demands divorce from sentimentality.” Hall of Famer Monte Irvin, who played with and against Wright in the Negro Leagues, feels strongly that Wright’s curveball was of major-league quality. But, in his autobiography, “Nice Guys Finish First,” Irvin said Robinson had one advantage in spring training: Rachel, his wife, who accompanied her spouse to the South in what she knew would be a trial by fire. Wright, by contrast, although married with two children, was alone in Daytona Beach, where the Dodgers trained.
Both Robinson and Wright landed with the AAA Montreal Royals of the International League when the season began. In his first appearance, against Syracuse, Wright entered in relief. He gave up 4 runs and 5 hits over 3.1 innings. The next time on the mound Wright pitched in Baltimore, the southern-most city in the International League, and a hostile environment for black players. He entered in the sixth inning behind by five. He retired the side and finished the game without giving up a hit. In general, however, during his six weeks with the club, he was used sporadically and often suffered from control problems. On May 14, he was demoted to the Class-C Trois Rivieres (Quebec) Royals of the Canadian-American League.
Glenn Hauman: “A number of those Graphic Story nominees have dark skinned women as main characters. No wonder Beale’s crew is upset.”
I’m rooting for Saga*, but a possible win for Kamala is just delicious.
*The Lying Cat is the stuff of Ted Beale’s nightmares.
Link/Source? I haven’t found any comment by VD on the graphic novels at all yet.
Regarding “The Dog Ate It”, I recall telling my teacher once that I did do my homework, but the cat shredded it overnight when I left it out in the lounge. I got a very sceptical look, which changed when I bought out a ziplock bag filled with paper fragments of assorted sizes…
It probably irks Beale that the non-Puppy graphic novel nominees are making the crap he got onto the ballot look bad by being as good as they are.
Honestly, I don’t even think he cares. It’s all part of creating the maximum number of possible win conditions for him.
Honestly, he thinks he can spin the GN category into a win. No matter what wins he will talk about how it is just worthless SJW propaganda and whip up his diseased doggies into frothy mouthed rage. John C. Wright will call it perversion, ramble on about virgin elf-maidens for a bit, then talk about how the morlocks loved the winner because it tears down the classical norms of morality, truth and beauty. It will give anyone else who wants to play partisan an easy strawman to joust against while they wait for the nomination of Fury Road … which they will immediately compare to “If You Were a Dinosaur My Love”.
Oh God I am so eager to see Fury Road rub it in their faces without even trying.
The MRA “boycott” might as well have been a marketing campaign to get people in the seats. 😀
BigGaySteve: “Your side wants to ban based on badthink but not badtouch. I was banned from a place that was making fun of hicks in Indiana not getting applewatches for saying: “Apple’s CEO cries for a boy cot because he wont be served pizza at his wedding yet gleefully commences commerce with nations that execute gays”. Do you see the hypocrisy there?”
It’s my understanding that you weren’t kicked out of any “place”. You were kicked off somebody’s personal blog, for violating whatever the rules are at that blog. How is that hypocrisy? Are the people on that blog actively allowing someone who is a publicly-confessed child molester to post there?
Are the people here supposed to feel bad about you having to suffer banishment from someone’s personal space because of your own bad behavior? (Hint: that’s not going to happen.)
Who is this “your side” you keep referring to? Where is this “side”? How do we know who’s on it?
Glenn
It is perfectly possible to honour Howard Taylor for Shlock Mercenary without sticking him on dubious slates which actually don’t honour him at all. I thought he behaved with great dignity last year, so I put my money where my mouth is, and am now a proud backer of the Schlock Mercenary table top RPG game.
Admittedly I’ve never done a RPG of any kind, but I have friends who do and have a year to teach me, and the thing looks immense fun for all concerned. Which is why I’m one of the backers!
In the comments on today’s blog post: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-sjws-review-shortlist.html#comment-form
But you said:
“Looks like Theodore Beale is whipping up his minions to “burn down” the graphic story Hugo category.”
From your own quote, I see him saying 1 thing and it isn’t to start or “whip up” anybody to do anything merely a “do whatever, I don’t care.”
(If anything it looks like he hadn’t even noticed it until a minion brought it up.)
@Peace: Thanks for spelunking. Damned if I’d put myself through it.
That said, it reads like they legit don’t like the stuff on offer. I don’t respect the reasons given, but, hey, whatever. It is weird that someone would not any of the nominees and feel impelled to ask permission to No Award everything. And making it about “burning down the category” as opposed to voting their own taste. But I guess if the Rabid Puppies had well-formed selves and were comfortable voting their own tastes we *sniff* wouldn’t have these nice comment threads to hang out in ever day.
To be honest, I am somewhat botgled by the comment, “What you are remembering as comics actually had stories. This trash doesn’t.”
As a reader of comic books from the 1940s til now, I have to say no, no they didn’t. Viewing comics through a nostalgic haze is all well and good, but for the most part most of them were vague and poorly-written, lurching from one improbable situation to another, pinched and stultified by the comics code and self-censorship. The actual stories were sometimes good, but to make a heck of a lot of them make sense readers had to use what was mentioned earlier in the thread, headcanon to fill in the blanks.
Jim Henley: “It is weird that someone would not any of the nominees and feel impelled to ask permission to No Award everything.”
I know — that excerpt posted by Peace is a real trip down the rabbit hole, isn’t it? It’s like a bunch of kids asking permission to go use the bathroom. “Daddy, can I vote this way?” “Daddy, what should I do if I don’t like any of the entries?”
@Going To Maine
“Honestly, I don’t even think he cares. It’s all part of creating the maximum number of possible win conditions for him.”
For Teddy Beale, it’s a win when he successfully clips his own toe-nails.
Eh, that’s fair. I confess to only skimming the comments at first and noticing that an awful lot of them seemed to be about scotching the Graphic Novel category. I should have read closer. I’ll be more careful in future.
Peace
Heady stuff for those who thought this was about what they said it was about.
Also, I’ve got major issues with their dictionaries; quite how they managed to extract ‘perversion’ from the preceding statements suggests to me that we should do a charity drive to supply them with real dictionaries. It may not help but it won’t hurt…
@Stevie:
That’s not a straight comment thread. I pucked out only the ones that dealt with the Graphic Novel category. It is possible that comment refers to something I missed or some other long-understood convention of that site and community.
@ Stevie
I rather think that in Puppyspeak “perversion” is code for gay people loving each other. Right-wing crazies like the Puppies tend to be absolutely obsessed with the sex lives of other people, especially lesbians, and it doesn’t tend to take very long before discussion (such as it is) in Puppyworld devolves in rants about lesbian SJW conspiracies to steal “their” rightful prizes.
“Yes. What you are remembering as comics actually had stories. This trash doesn’t.”
Translation: “GET OFF MY LAWN.”
SocialInjusticeWorrier: “I rather think that in Puppyspeak “perversion” is code for gay people loving each other.”
Probably — although they could also be referring to women being the main characters, and being able to make decisions (including whether to have sex) for themselves, or having positive main characters which are not white Christians.
Pretty much all those things are “perversions” to that bunch.
I would’ve done it anyway unless you had a really, really good reason why any of those are award-worthy.
[Emphasis added]
I think this is very telling concerning whether the Puppies actually voted for the stories because they liked them, or because they were told to.
@Challenger Grim
Weird interpretation thinking VD didn’t care whether they No Awarded the graphic story category. I agree he didn’t initiate the idea or push it especially hard but “Go for it. It merits it.” is clearly an endorsement.
jon: otoh, it doesn’t express any confidence that its doable, which may mean that vox is capable of counting.
@Aaron
Well, when you consider that the Puppies basically show no interest in defending the stories in question as stories, it makes sense to assume that they are just doing the usual conservative “follow the leader” routine rather than thinking about their merits. Once the Puppies have been told that a story is GOOD CONSERVATIVE STORY UNFAIRLY EXCLUDED BY SJW ENEMIES, they don’t need to read it. They just scurry off to “serve King and Country” by voting the way that Daddy tells them they should.
Fury Road is good. Possibly a little weak towards the end but still worth the rave reviews it’s been getting. I plan to go se it again this weekend in IMax because with tbe sort of well shot mayhem Miller puts on the screen, bigger is definitely better. 7.5/10
@MickyFinn
A reasonable estimate of Beale and Ted’s Excrement Adventurers suggests that they number in the low hundreds, a number, not wholly coincidentally, that is very similar to estimates of the total Gamergate membership. I believe that Sasquan had tallied 8500+ memberships of both varieties as of May 6th. That suggests that the Puppies are looking at a pretty serious ass-whupping, which is probably why Teddy Beale began declaring with preemptive desperation that everything was a win and he couldn’t possibly lose.
Well, when you consider that the Puppies basically show no interest in defending the stories in question as stories, it makes sense to assume that they are just doing the usual conservative “follow the leader” routine rather than thinking about their merits.
Oh I agree. I just think that seeing one so clearly state that he would follow his chosen leader’s direction in voting is pretty notable. It is one thing for their behavior to out their sheep-like nature. It is another for them to make sheep-like statements so clearly.
@JJ:
Or in other words, they hate “wrongfun”.