Welpendämmerung 6/13

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aka Operas in The Collar Cycle by Wagger, also including Das Whinegold, Die Walkies, and Sig-Flea’d

Saturday’s roundup brings you Matthew Foster, Gray Rinehart, Gary McGath, Allum Bokhari, Vox Day, Barry Deutsch, Adam-Troy Castro, A (W) Hendry, Tom Knighton, Eric Flint, George R.R. Martin, Lis Carey, Spacefaring Kitten, Russell Blackford and Ken Richards. (Title credit belongs to File 770 contributing editors of the day Octavia, Camestros Felapton and Kyra, as inspired by Scott Frazer’s original idea.)

Matthew Foster at Foster on Film

“What’s the Point? Human Minds and Sad Puppies” – June 13

So, how does this end? Not with Eric persuading or David Gerrold’s call for respect. Not with valentines saying “All is forgiven” and kumbayas. We, humans, are creatures of grudges. We should try to be better beings, but never forget reality while doing so. Those who forget history…

There will be no ending, no defined finish. But there can be, and almost certainly will be, a fading. There will be fewer articles, fewer rants, fewer votes cast for political reasons. It can gently drift away until it is a footnote. Or it can lessen, but still split fandom for years to come. How this works out depends on how it fades. If enthusiasm dies quicker from the anti-pups, the results will be less equality than in recent years, a continuation of the dominance of white authors, a touch less innovation in known writers, a reduction in the quality of writing, and a greater acceptance of minor racism and sexism in fandom, (keeping in mind those grand statements only apply to awards and to a corner of fantasy and science fiction fandom—the Pups are not going to be altering racism in general society—so how big a deal this is to you depends on how close you are to that corner). If it dies quicker in the Pups, things will float closer to how they were: increasing equality, a lessening of dominance of white authors, more innovation, and greater condemnation of racism and sexism (still just in our pocket of fandom—again, don’t get too excited by those lofty phrases). Either way, the effects will not be that large, except for The Hugos, where the awards will lose some of their prestige if the Pups end up more on top, and slowly gain most of it back if the Pups end up on bottom.

Of course things could get worse. New Pup leaders could arise who have the charm of Vox and the mouth of Larry. We could start getting death threats and rape threats.

I expect a very slow fade, with people snapping at each other for a few years at least, and grumbling when alone with their colleagues for many years. I hope the Pups will fade faster, but as it will be most likely determined by general fatigue, there’s no way to know. One “side” could fade faster (keeping in mind there really is only one side to this mess—the Pups are the side; everybody else are just fans who got stuck in a fight they didn’t ask for) if its leaders faded. If Vox or Brad or Larry were to go through some life change, or just get caught up in other matters, the Pups would fade faster and we’d have less Puppy smell. There are no leaders in the fans who dislike the pups, but some, like John Scalzi, David Gerrold, and George R.R. Martin might have more of an effect if they walked away in disgust.

So, what’s my point? Why do I write all these words over so many posts? Partly it is an obsession to support what I think is right, even when it will make very little difference. Partly it is because I know how she felt about the Pups, and would feel about their mess, though she’d have said a great deal less about it. Partly it is to help out friends. Partly it is to whip up the troops as I’d prefer less Puppy smell. Partly it is to be part of the community. But mainly, for me, it is a distraction. Because this was Eugie’s world, it feels a little important, and because it is not what I spent my time doing before, it doesn’t feel lonely, which makes it a good distraction. And that is the point.

 

Gray Rinehart on GhostWriter

“Halfway to the Hugos” – June 13

To aid the casual reader, here’s what I plan to cover in this overly-long post: – My disappointment, but also my ambivalence, at the way things have been characterized – The metaphor I’ve most recently developed to describe the situation I’m in – Some Scripture verses I am trying to hold on to as this process unfolds – My regret at being unable to attend the upcoming ceremony Forewarned is forearmed. Now, knowing what’s coming, if you don’t want to read the rest that’s perfectly fine…..

When the plane landed in Nomination City, some of us were surprised, because we expected to land in Passed-Over-Ville. (Every other time people have told me they nominated one of my stories, I haven’t even made the post-award long list, so I didn’t expect this time to be any different.)

It seemed that the plane had been hijacked. When the flight subsequently took off from Nomination City, en route to Hugotown, the reaction to the hijacking was loud and angry. Some passengers snuck off the plane during the Nomination City stop, and a couple bailed out later; I’m not sure yet if their parachutes worked, if they made safe landings, or if anyone has picked them up out of the wilderness. I hope they’re okay.

The more it looked like a hijacking, the more some people on the ground talked as if they wanted to shoot down the plane; some of them seem determined to do so, even if only with their own personal weapons. Just as worrisome, some of the hijackers have talked as if they want to crash the plane in the middle of Hugotown. My fellow passengers and I are left to wonder if there’s anything we can do to improve our chances of survival.

I’ve been in touch with my friends, both inside and outside the community of fans, throughout the ordeal. Those who contributed to my ticket or who like my work or who support me personally almost all told me that they want me to stay aboard, and ride it out. One person advised me to bail out, parachute or no. Outside my relatively small circle of family and friends, from what I can tell quite a few spectators are glued to their computer screens, watching every agonizing minute of the event; I don’t know if they care a whole lot what happens to me or the other passengers….

Some Closing Thoughts. Whenever we value something highly, when we have invested time or treasure in it and derived some reward (however intangible) from it, and that thing is threatened in some way, we rightly resent and are justified in trying to defend against the threat. That is true whether we are talking about our families and friendships, our homes and personal property, our reputations, or institutions with which we identify. I think sometimes we forget that others have the same right, to defend those things which they value.

Based on that, I understand the impulse on the part of longtime WorldCon participants and serious fen to protect the institution and its flagship award. I understand that barbarians storming the gates, brazenly and with unexpected success, is frightening and naturally foments resentment and anger.

I choose the barbarian example deliberately. Outsiders are labeled barbarians not because that is what they call themselves, but because their language is incomprehensible to the insiders — to the refined ears of the citizens it sounds like “bar-bar-bar” (which among science fiction convention-goers is not, in itself, damning). But the outsiders do have language and culture, however strange it may seem to the citizens: from their own point of view they are not barbarians but Goths, Visigoths, or Ostrogoths; Celts, Huns, or Vandals.

This year’s Hugo-nominating barbarians, unlike historical tribes characterized as such, brought alms with which they gained entry into the city and bought their citizenship: the $40 Supporting Membership. And they brought their own opinions — perhaps studiously formed, perhaps informed or even influenced by others – which they expressed in the nomination process. They joined the community, but some of the original citizens still see them as barbarians, as outsiders, and seethe. I understand that, and I have seen the results in some of the reviews and comments about my own nominated story.

So I offer this: Reading should be a pleasure and a joy, and if any Hugo Award voter is upset at the way my novelette wound up on the ballot and has not read it yet, I encourage them and give them my full permission to ignore my entry completely.

 

Gary McGath on Building My World

“On the Sad Puppies” – June 13

I’ve kept my distance from the “Sad Puppies” controversy in the Hugo Awards. I’m not registered for the upcoming World Science Fiction Convention, and I don’t follow a lot of current science fiction, so I couldn’t cast an informed vote without a lot of extra work. I have noticed quite a bit of nastiness from the anti-Puppy faction, including sniping at the people nominated because of the Sad Puppy and Rabid Puppy slates. If you dislike the methods of promotion, that’s fine, but attacking people for being nominated and failing to decline the nomination isn’t. It exemplifies the growing illiberalism and intolerance that I’ve seen in fandom….

There’s an outside chance that my Tomorrow’s Songs Today could be nominated next year in the category of “best related work,” and I’ve thought about whether I’d want that. Some people would very likely lump me, because of my views, with the Puppy faction, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few alleged friends turn on me. If it happens, I think I’d do more good by giving them reasoned responses than by running away from the situation.

 

Allum Bokhari on Breitbart.com

“TORpedoed! Media narrative on Hugo Awards incorrect, says Tor Books founder” – June 13

Because their chief opponents were a set of hard-line progressive authors hell-bent on ostracizing anyone who challenged their ideology, the Puppies were attacked by multiple media outlets as a force of ‘white male reaction’.

This panicked narrative has taken yet another blow after an intervention by Tim Dohety, the founder and president of Tor books, one of the most influential publishing houses in sci-fi. Writing on the Tor’s blog, the 43-year veteran of the publishing industry acknowledged that media stories portraying the Sad Puppies as a racist, sexist campaign aimed at promoting white men was entirely inaccurate.

 

Vox Day on Vox Popoli

“Bokhari on the Tor debacle” – June 13

We are admittedly making some minor, if encouraging, dents in the ongoing SJW onslaught. But while we should be encouraged, we should not be complacent or think that what we have accomplished will not be undone in a heartbeat if we stop paying attention and slip back into pushover mode.

And while it’s great to see the Publisher at the largest SF/F publishing house disavowing the SJW thought-policing in which some of Tor’s editors have engaged for the last decade or more, that doesn’t mean that he is absolved of the need to get his house in order. I have heard, from different sources this time, that Tor Books is very much concerned about the prospect of a boycott, particularly one that is supported by SF/F authors.

Which is interesting, because so far they have been unwilling to do the one thing that will end the matter. Indeed, Tor Books appears to have decided to stand by the broad spectrum insults of its Creative Director and its Associate Publisher. So, let’s see what Macmillan will do. And if they won’t do anything either, well, at least we will know that we gave them every chance to avoid what they apparently wish to avoid.

The key to Tor’s intransigence is their belief that the “thousands of emails” they have received are from “bots”. This is the same narrative #GamerGate has encountered to attempt to minimize its numbers. Therefore, we will need to find a way to demonstrate to Macmillan that those “thousands of emails” represent “thousands of bookbuyers”.

 

 

Adam-Troy Castro on Facebook – June 12

You know, there are an awful lot of people weighing in on this Sad Puppy situation, and it’s impossible to single out the very stupidest thing anybody’s said, not when some of the more stupid things actually qualify as signs of mental illness. But Edward Trimnell’s characterization of the kind of fiction the Sad Puppies think they’re advocating against, as excerpted on File 770 this morning, is certainly a monument.

 

A (W) Hendry

“Totally No Homophobe” – June 13

….Now, I’m not saying that straight white dudes don’t have it slightly easier than everyone else -we live in a society where the ruling class have fostered racism, sexism, and homophobia for centuries to suit their own ends- but the portrayal of heterosexuality, whiteness, or maleness as privileges has the effect of turning our focus away from the things we should be fighting -oppression, injustice, capitalism and class society- onto those things that we can not, and should not, fight -ourselves. The privileges identified by those who take an intersectional approach are unlike the privilege that 99% of the population think of when they hear the term: economic privilege. Unlike economic privilege these privileges can be neither given up nor adopted –no matter how hard some may try– and so, in practical terms, all a focus on them can do is turn introspection into a form of faux activism. It also has the effect of making those with the privileges the centre of attention -which is probably why it is so popular with white middle class kids- rather than the people experiencing the various manifestations of oppression…..

Now, to segue wildly back towards the topic of the Puppies and internet shit squalls, people like John C Wright and Theodore Beale serve a social purpose. They are there to be mocked and to have the piss taken out of them. That is their purpose and that is the full extent of that purpose. Engaging with them in any way beyond this is a distraction from engaging in actual political activity -something that suits them and their ilk down to the ground- and creating a society that has solidarity at its heart and which therefore would be a place unwelcoming of those who would seek to undermine that solidarity. If that’s what a person wants rather than merely wanting to have their ego stroked.

When people like the Puppies pipe up, as they inevitably will, just point, laugh, and carry on not buying their books.

 

 

Eric Flint

“BRING THE STRUCTURE OF THE HUGO AWARDS INTO THE MODERN WORLD” – June 13

…Today, that structure is hopelessly outdated. Short form fiction is now a very small part of fantasy and science fiction, whether you measure that in terms of money—where it’s now a tiny percentage of the income authors receive—or in terms of readership. It’s certainly a larger percentage of the readers than it is of income, but it’s not more than 10% and it’s probably closer to 5%.

People who are active in fandom are often surprised to hear this and sometimes think it’s nonsense, but that’s because reading short fiction is much more common in fandom than it is in the general audience for F&SF. There are many more people who only read novels than there are people who read any short fiction at all, much less do something like subscribe to a magazine or regularly read anthologies of short fiction…..

But there is a grain of truth lurking beneath their claim, because it is in fact true that there is a quite heavy bias against popular authors in the way the awards are determined—the Nebulas as much the Hugos. That’s not due to anything conscious on anyone’s part, and it’s not due to any sort of deliberate bias or discrimination. It’s simply inherent in the divergence between the reality of the market and the structure of the awards.

When most popular authors work exclusively or almost exclusively in series or multi-volume works like trilogies and quartets (and quintets, and sextets) and 75% of the awards are given out for short fiction, then it is inevitable that most popular authors will never get a Hugo or Nebula award….

I’d recommend replacing the existing four awards with seven, as follows:

Short Story. Anything up to 7,500 words.

Novelette. Between 7,500 and 17,500 words.

Novella. Between 17,400 words and 40,000 words.

Short Novel. Between 40,000 and 80,000 words.

Novel. Any length above 80,000 words so long as it remains within one cover, if it’s a paper edition. If only an electronic edition exists, it cannot exceed 300,000 words (which is pretty much the effective limit of a paper edition).

Multi-volume Stories. Any length above 80,000 words provided: a) it is divided into at least two volumes in paper editions none of which is shorter than 80,000 words or is more than 300,000 words if it exists only in an electronic edition. And b) it must be a completed work.

 

George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog

“Hugo Voting Continues” – June 13

Both supporting and attending members get an electronic “Hugo packet” that will enable you to read many of the works nominated for this year’s rockets. You should do that, no matter what side of the Puppy Wars you are on; we want informed voters. Yes, sadly, IMNSHO this is the weakest Hugo ballot in recent memory, thanks to the Puppy slates… but there’s still some damn strong work there, especially in Novel and Dramatic Presentation. And of course it is possible that your own tastes may differ from mine. So join, read, vote. And fifty years from now, when your fannish grandchildren ask you, “Say, gramps, what did you do in the Great Hugo War?” you’ll have an answer for them.

 

Lis Carey on Lis Carey’s Library

“Departure Gate 34B, by Kary English” – June 13

Kary English is a nominee for the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer. This is a gentle, melancholy story about a ghost who doesn’t know they’re now a ghost, and the surviving spouse who still loves, but is ready to move on. Enjoyable, even if not a stand-out.

 

 

Spacefaring Kitten on Spacefaring Extradimensional Happy Kittens

“Dave ‘Cool Beard but Incoherent Rants’ Freer” – June 12

Okay, let’s start with something positive: Freer has managed to include in the Hugo package one blog post that is actually about SFF books and in which the acronym SJW is mentioned (in the comments) only once. Well done!

Freer seems passionate, and I do like passionate people. Too bad he’s passionate about things I find reprehensible, such as defending sexism with this incoherent rant which consists of satire quotes of nobody knows what and run-of-the-mill anti-feminist bullshit that never stops to make an understandable point. The post is turbocharged with obscure references to cases of supposed “misandry” I may not be familiar with. However, after reading the post, I wasn’t inclined to do any research.

 

Russell Blackford on Metamagician and The Hellfire Club

“’Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust, Earth to Alluvium’ by Gray Rinehart – Hugo Award voting 2015” – June 13

This is another work nominated in “Best Novelette”, and again we have a competent, thoughtful, but not especially distinguished, space adventure. The underlying theme involves conflict between humans and technologically advanced aliens, in this case the Peshari, a lizard-like bunch with a taste for open skies and a morbid distaste (or more than that) for anything to do with digging into the ground. By my standards, which are not binding on anybody else, “Ashes to Ashes” suffers from being far too talky.

 

Ken Richards on learning the world, one step at a time

“TOM Kratman’s anti war polemic” – June 13

Assembled as a blank slate, ‘newbie’ Maggie is thrust through a vile ‘Boot Camp’ experience, which manipulates and transforms her from an innocent lover of flowers, to a pitiless, immoral killer, always following orders, no matter how reprehensible her actions may be. The sequence recalls the Paris Island Act of ‘Full Metal Jacket’, as we Kratman tells how soldiers are broken as humans and remoulded into unquestioning killers and followers of orders in that age old practice of brutalisation, intended to strip away the since of self, and replace it with the sense of the machine. The final ‘Full Metal Jacket’ reference is saved for the final act, where the scrap metal dealer, the general and the politician (deliberately generic, one-dimensional characters, in contrast to the betrayed heroine) receive, like the brutal drill sergeant, their just reward. Bravo Sir.

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669 thoughts on “Welpendämmerung 6/13”

  1. I recently stopped reading a book that took place in Manhattan in 1963, when the main character was signed up by her mother for Brazilian jiu-jitsu lessons.

    No she wasn’t! There wasn’t any BJJ in the US to learn in the 1960s, period. And all the author had to do was type “judo” instead and it would have been perfectly fine. Actually, she could have left out the word Brazilian and typed “jujutsu” and that would have been fine as well.

  2. I was completely thrown out of a book set in 1776 when one character called another a “snob.”

    No. I don’t think so.

  3. I had the impression that that particular comment was a response to your comment that although you had read many Hugo nominees you had not read any of the ones of the last twenty years.

    Just to address this quickly, as this is a bit of a theme for Puppies. The “proof” that the Hugos have gone off the rails is that they haven’t read many/most/any of the Hugo nominations for the past [number of years varies by Puppy]. May I suggest, to all Puppies watching but to no Puppies in particular, that if you haven’t read the novels, you are not well placed to judge their quality?

  4. My deal breaker is birds.

    Look, ok, I know it’s a tiny little subset of the population who cares, but God, there’s been some howlers. Radagast’s American Robin was jarring. There are Whippoorwill calls in the opening of “Hudson Hawk” which is supposed to be in Europe. In broad daylight.

    The less said of the Pygmy Nuthatch in Charlie’s Angels, the better.

    I am resigned to every eagle having a Red-Tail call, I have made my peace with the Laughing Kookaburra in every jungle, but for god’s sake, THINK about the wildlife. Birds aren’t all interchangeable. The one time I put a Tufted Titmouse in a fantasy story, I issued an apologia up front, and there were nasturtiums in it, too, so the geography was obviously fantastical anyway.

    Don’t get me started on New World plants showing up in the Dark Ages.

    /end rant

  5. Peace: “I was completely thrown out of a book set in 1776 when one character called another a “snob.”

    No. I don’t think so.”

    Um…

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/what-is-the-origin-of-the-word-snob

    The theory is ingenious but highly unlikely. The word snob is first recorded in the late 18th century as a term for a shoemaker or his apprentice. At about this time it was indeed adopted by Cambridge students, but they didn’t use it to refer to students who lacked a title or were of humble origins; they used it generally of anyone who was not a student.

  6. Peace

    Well, Eric Flint says so in the various posts Mike has linked to; I’ve been following this and nobody has cared to disagree with him; he has devoted considerable time to looking at this, and, unless you have sources he doesn’t, I tend to feel that he knows the market and has set it out fairly.

    Obviously, if you do have sources he doesn’t it would be good to let us know what they are, so we can contrast these with Eric Flint’s conclusions, and move to a better understanding…

  7. RedWombat: ” but for god’s sake, THINK about the wildlife. ”

    Yes, absolutely. For one thing, it means my zoologist and I, his occasional research assistant and co-bird watching fanatic, can watch a film in a non-urban setting without yelling at the screen. Capuchin monkeys in Africa? Really?

    Don’t take a primate expert to see a film with a monkey in it. Any monkey. Just don’t.

  8. @ULTRAGOTHA

    That’s because the command would have the 770 before the File.

    As to The Integral Trees, I kept with it through the sequel. I will not lie, The Smoke Ring is one of the few books I have thrown across a room.

  9. @ RedWombat

    I am resigned to every eagle having a Red-Tail call, I have made my peace with the Laughing Kookaburra in every jungle, but for god’s sake, THINK about the wildlife. Birds aren’t all interchangeable.

    Dear god. As I mentioned in an earlier “nature vs nuture” post are aeou (which of course zhi roundly ignored) I breed rats and have done so for 21 years. They are very nearly silent. If you hear a rat, they are very upset. Most of the noises they make are supersonic and can only be detected with a bat detector or something similar (and boy are they chatty if you tune such a device in! I’m glad I can’t hear it full time!)

    Yet every single time there is a rat on screen in any TV show or movie, they are constantly squealing. Most of the time, the noises they are making are baby rat nursing sounds for Og’s sake, not even angry squeaks! The rest of the time, the sounds are just blatantly wrong… I’ve even heard guinea pig squeals.

    And let’s not even get into the times you find rats in air ducts or bare, large, open sewer tunnels. Just… no. Seriously no.

    I know I’m one of probably 50 people on the planet who cares, but every. Single. Time…

  10. I checked out on Niven at “Ringworld Engineers.”

    I hate a book that will casually upend a plot point from a prior book with a paragraph long hand wave. “she stopped trusting her luck! The end!”

    Dan Simmons borked this one with his attempts to write a King-esque Americana horror. I do not believe that the devout atheist who named his dog Wittgenstein is secretly worshipping Anubis in his spare time. Nope. For shame, author, for shame.

  12. Ann Somerville on June 14, 2015 at 5:25 pm said:

    Peace: “I was completely thrown out of a book set in 1776 when one character called another a “snob.”

    No. I don’t think so.”

    Um…

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/what-is-the-origin-of-the-word-snob

    The theory is ingenious but highly unlikely. The word snob is first recorded in the late 18th century as a term for a shoemaker or his apprentice. At about this time it was indeed adopted by Cambridge students, but they didn’t use it to refer to students who lacked a title or were of humble origins; they used it generally of anyone who was not a student.

    I should have been more clear. It was a young American colonial girl saying it about another American colonial and the meaning was the modern twentieth-century sense of a snooty person who looks down on others and considers themself superior.

    While it is remotely possible that a young American girl might learn obscure English slang, it is not likely to happen years before the word is coined.

    The word first appears in England 1781, meaning a shoemaker or cobbler. When Cambridge students started using the word in 1796 it became a contemptuous term for “townie” (as opposed to “gownie”). By 1831 it meant “a low class person who tries to ape his betters” (ahh, England). Only around 1911 did the word come to have the modern meaning of “one who despises those considered inferior in rank, attainment, or taste.”

    In effect it was like hearing George Washington say “okay.”

  13. Stevie on June 14, 2015 at 5:27 pm said:

    Peace

    Well, Eric Flint says so in the various posts Mike has linked to; I’ve been following this and nobody has cared to disagree with him; he has devoted considerable time to looking at this, and, unless you have sources he doesn’t, I tend to feel that he knows the market and has set it out fairly.

    Obviously, if you do have sources he doesn’t it would be good to let us know what they are, so we can contrast these with Eric Flint’s conclusions, and move to a better understanding…

    Sorry? Is this about my saying I hadn’t heard that it’s almost impossible to sell a stand alone novel to a publisher?

    I don’t have any sources of information except some distant acquaintances who had successfully sold standalone books to publishers. That’s why I was surprised.

    Honestly, I just hadn’t heard.

    If Eric Flint says so I’m willing to respect his word as someone who knows a great deal more than I do. A link or a quote would be greatly appreciated.

  15. Jim Henley on June 14, 2015 at 5:45 pm said:

    People are getting testy!

    As George Washington might say, “Maybe dudes should take a chill pill?”

    Sorry.

  17. The best way to sell a novel is “standalone with series potential”—I wouldn’t say it is next to impossible to sell a standlone novel, but series are a bit easier.

    Flint often makes definitive claims that are only proximately the case, or are only the case most of the time for the major SF lines in the United States. I remember someone swearing up and down that Flint had made it very clear: nobody will publish a novel of less than 80,000 words. I’ve published seven of them. None series either!

  18. How many standalone SFF novels come out a year? It may be that I just run into them more than most readers, but it doesn’t seem like it’s nigh-impossible to me.

    It may well be nigh-impossible in the genres Eric Flint tends to work in, of course.

  19. Out-of-place birds and plants slip past me, and anachronistic language only occasionally grab me. But what gets me is people playing music, in visual media, who have no idea how to hold their instruments properly.

  20. Meredith

    I take your point. Had I not interacted with you for quite some time now I would have read your post, and muttered (Mike had better be watching this post: I want credit for mutt) that you are a concern troll and best left ignored.

    But I have interacted with you, and I know you are not a concern troll, nor a troll of any kind, nevertheless, you seem to believe that easing inconvenience to voters is more important than the value of the story itself. And I can’t agree with that, because the Hugos aren’t about inconvenience; they’re about what we think are the best things in our field in the particular year, and in the years to come I want to be able to look back and feel that I gave it my best shot. Metaphorically, of course; we don’t have many guns here…

  21. Morris Keesan on June 14, 2015 at 5:51 pm said:

    Out-of-place birds and plants slip past me, and anachronistic language only occasionally grab me. But what gets me is people playing music, in visual media, who have no idea how to hold their instruments properly.

    Arrgh, yes! People holding instruments upside-down, or curling both hands around the front of a transverse flute. Those bug me.

  22. I remembered enjoying The Ringworld Engineers but I didn’t like A World Out of Time or The Magic Goes Away all that much. I think it was The Integral Trees that made me mostly give up on Niven.

    I did try a few of the later Ringworld novels, though.

    I always feel a bit odd with Niven because the period of his work that I like is his early stuff – World of Ptaavs is for instace one of my favorites, as is Protector. Plus the short story of his that most stuck in my memory was the one where an astronaut on pluto suffers some catestrophic problem on his space craft so he decides to go outside and become a frozen statue even though it is entirely made of nonsense and technobabble.

    Ringworld is thus kinda the point I step off from his sci-fi stuff – it’s the point where he goes from saying “here’s a weird thing, let’s follow its implications through and explore it” to “here’s a weird and interesting thing – let’s have a planetary romance on it”, to the extent that most of the story of Ringworld (and its sequels) could take place on an earth-like planet without huge changes to the plot. Which is a bit of a downside when the thing I liked about niven stories was how they had interesting conceptual kernels.

    In that vein and to add to the recommendation list – I’d throw out Robert Reed’s “Marrow” as a good book for people who either like niven in his ringworld mode and want more in that sort of avenue and for those who like the idea of Niven’s stories more often than the actual stories he writes. Marrow actually weaves both a story large enough to explore a big dumb object that’s vast in scale as well as wide in the scope of subjects it uses that scale to examine and play with to make a really interesting read – very much the sort of book that Ringworld should have been imho.

  23. If you hear a rat, they are very upset.

    This is true. The only time I heard Reynolds or Masterson or Whomp!, it was when they’d done something like stick a foot through the wire-mesh wheel in the cage. The rest of the time, generally well-behaved and (especially Masterson) inquisitive. (I still miss Masterson. A very nice rat, and good with conventions, if not with travelling.)

  24. Series are easier to sell these days, but stand-alone novels still get contracted regularly. Among my friends and acquaintances in sf/f, I know a number of people currently writing or who’ve recently written or recently signed for stand-alone novels. Presumably there are many others doing so, too, who are not among my friends and acquaintances.

    Series are popular in all genres (not just sf/f) because readers get wrapped up in the characters and tend to keep buying the books, because they want to keep following those characters. This is good for the author and the publisher.

    Stand-alones are tricky because an extraordinary number of readers (no, I don’t mean fans who spend much of their spare time at online fannish sites and/or fannish conventions; I just mean readers) really a enjoy a book, even recommend it to others… but if the story clearly ENDS there (i.e. a stand-alone) don’t go look for the author’s other titles, and often very quickly forget the author’s name. This makes it more challenging to build sales, audience, and career with stand-alones than with series, which has a lot to do with the prevalence of series in the market.

    None of which is to say that no one reads, writes, publishes, sells, or buys stand-alones. Just that, as a career strategy, they tend to be a tougher road in our times than series fiction.

  25. Anyone suggesting different-sized Hugo trophies should bear in mind that there is exactly one mold for the current design, and that except for the clear trophies made by a couple of past Chicons, every Hugo rocket from 1984 onward has come out of that single mold. Peter Weston, designer of that version of the rocket, wrote about this in Making Hugos, which he also gave as a presentation when he was FGoH at the 2004 Worldcon.

  26. Thanks to everyone answering about standalone books and series.

    I’m … well, I’m obviously something of a fan because I’m here, but I’m basically a reader with no literary aspirations and a lot of ignorance. Thanks for the illumination.

  28. Nick

    Thank you for that; it’s always good to have you around on publishing/editing etc because you know what you are talking about.

    As a child my family used to call me Mr Spock because, then as now, I really prefer logic to emotion when I’m thinking. I’m not good at dealing with people who think that shouting ‘Aristotle!’ constitutes an argument.

  29. I apologize if this is seen as a drive-by-post but I am busy in IRL.

    I went back and checked and I’ve only read 18 Hugo nominated novels from1995 to 2014. But I also checked and saw i’d read at least one often ywo books by two-thirds of authors nomonated.

    I am not a masochist. If I’ve already read works by an author and did not like them, I’m not going to buy a novel kust because it was nominated for a Hugo.

    I think I’ve read enough to have an opinion. You may disagree.

    I really have to dash off now but as my reading experience is why I became a puppy I’m sure I’ll have an opportunity to discuss further in weeks to come.

  30. Hi. I’ve been enjoying reading these comment threads the last little while. Looks like a fun and interesting community, and I’m paying great attention to the rec posts. New things to read!

    Re: Morning suits. When I got married 24 and a bit years ago (in New Jersey), I insisted that the male half of our wedding wear morning suits. All but the bridegroom rebelled. We compromised by having the fathers, brothers, etc wear a modified version of gray short jacket, striped pants, vest and long striped tie. The groom happily wore tails and a cravat and looked gorgeous.

    The female half were informed

  31. Laura Resnick

    Thank you for introducing more data for Mike’s machine.

    I think that if most of us were lost on a desert island the Beale’s and the Wrights would not wish to stay around…

  32. Gabriel F. on June 14, 2015 at 6:09 pm said:

    I think the different size Hugos was a joke.

    I think so, too.

    Though I would give a lot* if I could find a small silver penis pin the size of the Hugo Nominee pins they give to all the nominees to give to Ann Leckie.

    *for values of a lot that don’t equal significant portions of my paycheck.

  33. This post may seem like something out of the blue, but that’s because it is the result of several days of thought. I am one of the people who loved The Three-Body Problem, and I want to try to explain why.

    For me, much of the emotional power of the book comes from the treatment of the Cultural Revolution, the craziness of the late 60s-early 70s that was one of the nastiest episodes in modern Chinese history and, unlike most of the other nasty bits, was entirely self-inflicted. It wasn‘t Japanese invaders or warlords backed by foreign governments who were committing the atrocities, it was foolish young Chinese egged on by cynical politicians who thought that the resulting chaos would somehow consolidate their own power. I’m heartened by the fact that writers today are able to talk about it freely.

    Imagine a universe in which the likes of RH and her nasty friends were encouraged actually to carry out their fantasies and were allowed to beat people to death in real life as long as they screamed the proper slogans while doing it. Yes, the scene in which the father of one of the protagonists is publicly murdered by four young women in a frenzy of revolutionary fervor is accurate. Things like that really happened. The author, fortunately for him, is too young to have seen it in person, but I’m sure he heard stories from his parents and their friends.

    I think that the characters who seem so flat to other readers are people who have had their affect forcibly flattened by the horrible things they have lived through. Ye, who saw her father killed before her eyes, is so traumatized that she is willing to betray the entire human race—or is she? We don’t yet know the full story, and the fact that we don’t get all the way inside her head is one of the things that, for me, makes the book exciting and suspenseful.

    Even a present-day Chinese scientist like Wang knows damn well what happened in his country within living memory, and he knows that if anything like it ever happened again, he’d be at severe risk just for being an intellectual. In an unstable political climate, keeping a low profile and not showing your feelings is an ingrained survival mechanism.

    With murderous craziness or at least the memory of it all around them, of course scientists would cling desperately to the rationality of science as the one thing in all the world that they could depend on. So the idea of inducing suicides by screwing with the observable data seems perfectly plausible to me. Wang is able to tough it out when it happens to him, partly because he is beginning to have an inkling of what is really going on.

    I really liked the way that the author presented all the different, intriguing plot threads—the tragic backstory of Ye, the secret Chinese government SETI project, the anti-science movement, the sudden unreliability of data, the suicides, the countdown, the mysterious computer game, and the cult of the Coming of the Lord—and tied them all together at the end. The physics issues didn’t bother me enough to bounce me out of the story. Besides, the author does scrupulously avoid the scientifically questionable trope of FTL travel, if only above the subatomic level. And I’m eager to find out what happens next—I honestly have no idea which way the story will go, which makes it all very exciting for me.

    Sorry to have gone on so long, but several people in earlier threads did ask.

  34. @Ultragotha:

    I am willing to bet they exist.

    I am not going to Google for them.

    Nope nope nope nope nope.

  35. @Stevie

    I think there’s a point when people stop nominating and stop voting because they don’t have the time or money – or vote for the one or two that they read anyway, which is also less than ideal (think of how many Butcher fanPuppies have turned up determined to vote for him regardless). I don’t think its viable to expect most Hugo voters to buy and read five multi-volume series within the voting time-frame. If there was a year where they were all Dresden Files length that’s 75 novels!

    I like the idea, but realistically I think it has some very big implementation issues which I’m not sure are solvable.

  37. @Estee

    That makes it sound a lot more appealing than most of the other reviews I’ve seen. 🙂

  39. It seemed to me in the late 1970s del Rey sought out authors who were nivenlike in one way or another: Tony Rothman, Lee Killough, Joan Slonczewski, Michael McCollum, Donald Moffatt, and so on.

  40. Though I would give a lot* if I could find a small silver penis pin the size of the Hugo Nominee pins they give to all the nominees to give to Ann Leckie.

    You can buy little penis shaped cigarette lighters for keychains – I’d be very surprised if you couldn’t find a metal one with at least a chrome finish if not an actual silver exterior.

  42. Peace Is My Middle Name on June 14, 2015 at 6:25 pm said:

    I am willing to bet they exist.

    I am not going to Google for them.

    Nope nope nope nope nope.

    I have Googled for them. My last search, when I included “lapel” turned up, for some odd reason, bunches of Christian crosses and a set Republican cuff links and my mind bent a little. o_O

    The closest I’ve found is a sad droopy thing. I want one nice and upright and taking at least a double-take to realize it’s not a Hugo rocket. 😉

    .

    OK, that’s probably TMI…..

  43. LOL! Ann, that first one is the sad droopy thing. The second a bit, erm, too obvious. I shan’t cry if I can’t find one. I just think it would make her smile even if she didn’t wear it.

  45. Also, too: period appropriate food. I am currently writing a novel set in an alternate universe version of the 19th century and getting the food variance among social classes right is almost as nerve wracking as the linguistic choices.

  46. Meredith on June 14, 2015 at 4:55 pm said:

    Its more that I think the burden on voters and nominators would be excessive. Its unreasonable to expect people to fork out the cash for three-fifteen (or more!) novels times five once voting starts, and be able to finish them before the voting deadline. I’m not convinced there’s a lot of voters out there who’d feel comfortable enough in their knowledge of multiple multi-volume series’ to nominate, either. I liked the idea when I first heard it but the problems people have raised just keep piling up.

    I see the problems also, but there must be some way around them because I think there is a real need to adjust to current writing/publishing practice.

    For the multi-novel reading requirement, I wonder if there might be some way to generate or require a synopsis of the previous stories and characters so that the story nominated *could* stand alone?

    For the problem of non-terminating series like the Vorkosigan universe or 1632, there could be rules (as proposed in the current Saga idea) for a minimum number of words and/or time between nominations. There could also be restrictions on being nominated in more than one novel category in a year.

    Of course, it would probably take a committee of some sort to try to revamp the whole novel category. Doing it piecemeal probably isn’t a good idea. I doubt this year’s Saga has a good chance of approval. I do think there needs to be some adjustments, though.

  47. With regard to The Three-Body Problem, it was my understanding that the physicists were committing suicide because (rot13) vg unq orra erirnyrq gb gurz gung gurer jbhyq arire or nal zber fvtavsvpnag qvfpbirevrf be oernxguebhtuf va gur svryq bs Culfvpf, orpnhfr gur Fbcuba jnf fxrjvat gur erfhygf fb gung gur rivqrapr pbhyq abg or gehfgrq naq ab gurbel pbhyq rire or qrsvavgviryl cebira — guhf eraqrevat gurve ragver yvsr’f fpubynefuvc naq jbex zrnavatyrff sbe gur shgher.

  50. @Red Wombat:

    Dan Simmons borked this one with his attempts to write a King-esque Americana horror.

    I was a huge Simmons fan right up until that crazy Caliphate planet-killing suicide bomber submarine with the black hole missiles in Olympos.

    That was super frustrating because I thought he’d done some fine work up to that point.

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