Enriching Your Puppy Vocabulary 8/26

(1) Rachel Keslensky has contributed a comic called The Saddest Puppy to Scenes From A Multiverse.

(2) Eric Flint – “Do We Really Have To Keep Feeding Stupid And His Cousin Ignoramus?”

So. Let me establish some Basic Facts:

Fact One. There is no grandiose, over-arching SJW conspiracy to deny right-thinking conservative authors their just due when it comes to awards. It does not exist. It has never existed. It is nothing but the fevered dreams which afflict some puppies in their sleep.

It is preposterous—there is no other word for it—to claim that there is some sort of systematic bias against conservatives in F&SF in the same year (2015) that the Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America bestowed the title of Grand Master on Larry Niven and the liberal literary magazine the New Yorker ran a very laudatory article on the author Gene Wolfe.

Fact Two. There is no reflexive reactionary movement to drag F&SF kicking and screaming back into the Dark Ages when all protagonists had to be white and male (and preferably either engineers or military chaps). The very same people who piss and moan about diversity-for-the-sake-of-it litter their own novels with exactly the same kind of diversity they deplore when their opponents do it.

Yeah, I know they’ll deny it. “The story always comes first!” But the fact is that there is no compelling plot function to Ringo’s inclusion of the gay couple in Under a Graveyard Sky. So why did he put them in the novel? The answer is that, like any good writer—and whatever my (many) political disagreements with John, he’s a damn good writer—he tries to embed his stories into the world he created for them. The world of Black Tide Rising is the modern world, and his novels reflect that—as they should.

And I defy anyone with a single honest bone in their body—just one; even a pinkie bone—to read his depiction of that gay couple and tell the world afterward that he’s a homophobe. Which is not to say, mind you, that John and I would agree on any number of issues that come up around the question of LGBT rights. But that’s a separate matter.

There are real disagreements and divisions lying at the heart of the Recent Unpleasantness. But I wish to hell people would dump the stupid stereotypes so we could get on with a serious discussion and debate.

Fact Three. Yes, there is a problem with the Hugo awards, but that problem can be depicted in purely objective terms without requiring anyone to impute any malign motives to anyone else. In a nutshell, the awards have been slowly drifting away from the opinions and tastes of the mass audience, to the point where there is today almost a complete separation between the two. This stands in sharp contrast to the situation several decades ago, when the two overlapped to a great extent. For any number of reasons, this poses problems for the awards themselves. The Hugos are becoming increasingly self-referential, by which I mean they affect and influence no one except the people who participate directly in the process.

That said, however, as I spent a lot of time in my first essay analyzing—see “Some comments on the Hugos and other SF awards”—the causes of the problem are complex and mostly objective in nature. There is no easy fix to the problem. There is certainly no quick fix. Most of all, there is no one to blame—and trying to find culprits and thwart the rascals does nothing except make the problem worse.

(3) More backstory on the Lamplighter/Nielsen Hayden encounter.

(4) John ONeill in a comment to Jeffro Johnson on Black Gate

> Please tell me more about this cost to peoples’ careers and reputations.

> I can see in the context that you think it should be glaringly obvious, but it isn’t clear to me.

Jeffro,

There are multiple aspects to it, obviously, but let me dwell on those that seemed instantly obvious back in April.

First, don’t piss off your audience. As I’ve said many times, the Hugo electorate don’t like to be dictated to. Their response to the Puppy ballot was entirely predictable — they were going to (fairly or unfairly) reject the whole thing out of hand. It didn’t take any great insight to see that, even back in April.

When it happened to us, the temptation was strong to accept the nomination anyway, and then spend the next four months lobbying for a fair shake. But that’s a fool’s game, because almost no one is paying attention… and anyway, most voters made up their mind the instant they heard about the slate. There was just no way we were going to be able to reach the bulk of voters.

Accepting the nomination, and becoming part of the Puppy slate, meant we were going to get spanked, and hard. The Hugo electorate was pissed off, and there was nothing we could say to them that would mitigate that.

Now, plenty of Puppies tried — and tried hard — to make their case in the intervening four months. I paid attention, and I thought several did a great job. So much so that, just as I said in my Sunday article, I began to doubt my initial prediction, and believed that a compelling majority of Hugo voters would give the Puppies a fair shake, and vote on the merits.

Nope. In the end, nothing we nominees said made any difference. The Hugo electorate spanked the Puppies, and hard, for the crime of being a slate, and threatening the integrity of the awards.

So, now that it’s over, how has being a losing Puppy nominee damaged reputations and careers?

The answer is twofold. One, you’re a loser. You lost out to “No Award.” That’s only happened 10 times in Hugo history… and half of them were on Sunday.

Second, rightly or wrongly, the nominees are branded as Puppies, and right now that’s a losing brand. It may not be a losing brand forever, but from the looks of the Hugo voting, it sure ain’t a brand that the majority of Hugo voters look kindly on.

There are things the nominees can do, of course — continue to produce good work. continue to network, and continue to make their case.

But I think the evidence of the past four months is pretty compelling: no one is listening. You were part of a slate that was loudly and very successfully repudiated by fandom, and that’s all they need to know to form a negative opinion.

(5) Vox Day on Vox Popoli

[Warning about insults of GRRM in post title and content]

It’s amusing how the SJWs in science fiction are claiming five awardless categories as a win while simultaneously trying to figure out how to prevent it from happening again next year. And, Martin demonstrates the truth of the observation SJWs Always Lie, as he tells a whopper about Toni Weisskopf when he claims she would “almost certainly have been nominated anyway, even if there had been no slates”. The fact is Toni Weisskopf never even came CLOSE to being nominated prior to Sad Puppies 1. In 2012, she finished in 14th place. In 2011, 10th. In 2010, 11th. She wasn’t even trending in the right direction! Without the Puppies, she would never, ever, have received a nomination and the data shows that the 2015 Long Form nominees would have been virtually identical to the pre-Puppy years, including the aforementioned Liz Gorinsky, Beth Meacham, to say nothing of the Torlock who lobbied for the creation the award so he and his fellow Tor editors could finally win something, Patrick Nielsen Hayden.

(6) Tasha Robinson on NPR – “How The Sad Puppies Won – By Losing”

As The Guardian put it in a triumphant post-awards headline, “Diversity wins as the Sad Puppies lose at the Hugo awards.”

Unfortunately, that isn’t true. The Puppy bloc — estimated as about 19 percent of the overall voters, according to a Chaos Horizon vote analysis — didn’t win any Hugos. But it did win the day. The group successfully prevented a wide variety of other content from making it to the finalist list. Sites like io9 have examined the initial Hugo nominees voting and assembled an alternate ballot, showing the top vote recipients, which would have been finalists in a Puppy-free year. They include strong Short Story candidates like Ursula Vernon’s “Jackalope Wives” and Amal El-Mohtar’s “The Truth About Owls.” A year where No Award beat out eligible, worthy material is hard to count as a victory.

And the Puppies didn’t just dominate the finalist slate, they dominated the conversation for the entire convention. They forced everyone at WorldCon to acknowledge them and their agenda, and to take sides in the conflict or work around them. They turned the 2015 Hugos into an openly cynical referendum not about which works were best, but about whose politics and tactics were best. Any vote-based system can be seen as a popularity contest and a tactical war, but the Puppies made this year’s Hugos about those things and nothing else.

They got their noses rapped at the awards ceremony. But losing an awards statue isn’t the same as losing the conversation.And they did so in the most openly derisive manner possible. Puppy defenders have often made the offensive, judgmental and depressingly self-absorbed argument that voters couldn’t possibly actually like works by or about women, trans people, gay people, writers of color and so forth. Clearly, the argument claims, people could only vote for those works out of a misguided social-justice agenda. Until this year, the best argument that Hugo voters really were voting for their favorite works (and not to push an agenda) was the range of material nominated on the first ballot, reflecting the variety of tastes that creates such a wide and scattered speculative-fiction field.

Now that voters have seen that following their hearts will just get their candidates shut out of consideration, they’re more likely to want to build slates and promote agendas, to prevent another ballot filled with finalists they can’t stomach. Over the weekend, WorldCon organizers approved a series of changes to the Hugo nominee rules to help prevent bloc domination of the ballot. But those changes won’t go into effect until 2017, assuming they’re ratified at the 2016 WorldCon.

Still, the Puppies lost in some ways, beyond the straight question of who got the awards. Their tactics rallied voters who haven’t paid attention to the process in years, and guaranteed their interest and involvement in 2016 and for the immediate future. And by creating a straight-up duel between politically aligned poles, then losing it by a wide margin, they disproved their claims that they were the silent majority, the populists being unfairly ruled by a minority of elitists. They got their noses rapped at the awards ceremony. But losing an awards statue isn’t the same as losing the conversation. And the conversation certainly isn’t over. It — and the Puppies — are just getting started

(7) Abigail Nussbaum on Asking The Wrong Questions – “The 2015 Hugo Awards: Thoughts on the Results”

If the puppies had truly represented “real” fandom, then “real” fandom would have turned up to vote for the nominees they put on the ballot.  Instead, the people who voted were, overwhelmingly, thoroughly pissed off and eager to kick some puppy ass.  The Hugo is a popular vote award, and what that means is that while it can be manipulated, it can’t be stolen.  It belongs to whoever turns up to vote, and in 2015 the people who turned up to vote wanted nothing to do with the puppies’ politics and tactics.  Despite the puppies’ loudest claims to the contrary, 3,000 voters are not a cabal or a clique.  They are the fandom. I’d like to believe that there are enough people among the puppy voters who are capable of seeing this.  There’s been some debate today about what percentage of the Hugo voters actually represent puppies.  This analysis by Chaos Horizon suggests that there were 500 Rabid Puppy voters, and 500 Sad Puppy voters.  That’s a big enough number to suggest that we could be looking at a repeat of this dance next year–another puppy-dominated ballot, another fannish outrage, another puppy shutout at the voting phase.  But to my mind, the real question is: how many of those thousand voters are willing to do that?  How many of them would rather destroy the Hugo than see it go to someone they disapprove of?  How many of them are able to ignore the undeniable proof that they’ve maxed out their support within the community, and that there simply aren’t enough Gamergate trolls to make up the difference?

I’d like to believe that those people are not the majority.  That there are among puppy voters people who can grasp that if you want to win a Hugo, the simplest and easiest way to do it is to play by the same rules as everyone else: write and publicize good, worthwhile work, and do so with a genuine love for the award, not the contempt and resentfulness that characterized the puppies’ behavior this year.

The truth is–and this is something that we’ve all lost sight of this year–no matter how much the puppies like to pretend otherwise, the Hugo is not a progressive, literary, elitist award.  It’s a sentimental, middle-of-the-road, populist one.  I rarely like the shortlists it throws up, and am often frustrated by the excellent work that it ignores.  In fact, looking at this year’s would-have-been nominees, I see some work that I loved–Aliette de Bodard’s “The Breath of War,” Carmen Maria Machado in the Campbell Award category–but on the whole it feels like a very safe, unexciting ballot that I would probably have complained about quite a bit if it had actually come to pass.  And for all the crowing about this year’s winners being a victory for those who love the Hugos, some of them–particularly in the Best Novelette and Best Fan Writer categories–send as message that is, to my mind, far from progressive.  (Full disclosure: this year’s nominating breakdowns reveal that, if it hadn’t been for the puppies, I would have been nominated in the Best Fan Writer category.  I don’t think I would have won, and all things considered I’m glad that I was out of that mess this year, but it’s worth acknowledging.)  It’s not that I’ve never felt the desire to burn the whole edifice down, the way the puppies say they do.  The difference is that I never thought that exasperation could be used to justify actually doing it.

(8) Gregory G. Hullender offers his translation of a French news article about the Puppies on Greg’s Reflections: My Adventures Reading in a Foreign Language.

Part of the fun of reading a foreign language is getting a very different perspective on issues. As a science-fiction fan, I’ve been curious what the Europeans would make of this year’s “Sad Puppy” affair. Sure enough, I found an article about it in Le Monde, the French “newspaper of record.”

(9) Allan Davis on LewRockwell.com “We Had To Burn The Hugos To Save Them”

Over 1200 people voted for Toni Weisskopf.  750 more voted for Sheila Gilbert, and 200 for Anne Sowards, all in the Best Long Form Editor category.  Over two thousand people voted in good faith for the people that they thought deserved that award.  And 2500 members of the High Church of Science Fiction–the ruling faction that believes it gets to determine who is, and who is not, a “true fan” of the genre–declared that those two thousand opinions were not welcome and their votes do not count. The SJW ruling faction of science fiction fandom, who pride themselves on their diversity, tolerance, and inclusiveness, won this year’s battle against the Puppies using their preferred weapons of intolerance and exclusion.

(10) Sharrukin’s Palace

Seriously. What did they expect was going to happen?

I’m not going to pretend that everyone has been behaving well in opposing the Puppies. There’s no denying that two of the prominent Puppies are extremely toxic figures, but the worst thing I can say about most of them is that they’re rather clueless. Folks like Lou Antonelli, Larry Correia, Sarah Hoyt, and Brad Torgersen are due some pretty strong criticism for their actions, but they don’t deserve some of the outright slander that they’ve been getting.

That having been said, did any of these folks really think that a community in which they’ve spent months or years violating long-established social norms, and loudly insulting pretty much everyone, was going to react with praise, respect, and silver rockets?

(11) embrodski on Death Is Bad “Puppies – All Bark, No Bite”

The fact remains that the puppy supporters were excited to vote a slate so they could hijack the Hugos for their self-aggrandizement. And as I predicted in “Why Vandals?” none of them bothered to show up for the actual party. If the party was left just to them, they’d have a nearly empty convention hall and no one to run it. They do not care about the con, or the people who attend it. They didn’t attend the business meeting to try to make things better. They didn’t put forward any bids to host the 2018 WorldCon. That they didn’t try to further mar the convention by ruining things in person isn’t a mark of civility, it’s simply the modus operandi for internet cowards.

It really dawned on me just how worthless the Puppies are when I went to the business meeting, and during the watching of the fan-recognition part of the award ceremony. These are people, later on in their years, who have been SF/F fans for significantly longer than I’ve even been alive. They’ve spent *decades* of work putting together these conventions. They are dedicated, and in love. They aren’t the authors, they don’t get the accolades themselves. They’re just passionate about SF. I really came to realize how much WorldCon is by and for the fans. I was very disappointed that more puppies didn’t come to the con in person. I was very disappointed that ALL the puppies didn’t come to the con in person! They would have seen that joy and passion for themselves. Maybe that is part of the reason why the puppy supporters who did come didn’t boo or shout or try to disrupt anything. They saw the love and the passion for themselves, and couldn’t bring themselves to be assholes any more. The ones who stayed home, safe behind their keyboards – they are the ones who will continue to be dicks. Because they were cowards, and wouldn’t come to see what they were vandalizing in person. Assholery feeds on cowardice, which leads to further assholery, in a neat little circle. It’s fitting.

(12) Aaron Pound on Dreaming of Other Worlds – “Biased Opinion: 2015 Hugo Awards Post-Mortem”

In the Long Form Editor category, Beale instructed his minions to vote for Toni Weisskopf first, and placed himself further down his instructional list. Despite this, 166 voters placed Beale first on their ballots, putting him ahead of Jim Minz, who only got 58 first place nods.

(13) Howard Tayler on Schlock Mercenary – “Sasquan Report”

My heart goes out to those who did not win awards this year, especially those whose work missed being on the ballot because of the hijacked slate. Their work will stand independently of this, however, and needs neither my pity nor the validation of the short-list. As a former Hugo loser, I know that it stings, but I also know that you’ve got to keep making stuff regardless of what happens with awards. I kept making Schlock Mercenary for five years after it started not winning Hugo awards. It still hasn’t won, and I’m still making it today.

Just as awards shouldn’t validate your decision to create art, they shouldn’t have any bearing on how you feel about the art you consume. Reading in particular is a deeply personal, intimate act. An award on a book is like a sticker on a banana: it might help you pick the banana, but if you eat the sticker you’re doing it wrong.

(14) Jennifer Brozek – “About the Hugo Awards in Interview Form”

Q: Now that the Hugos are over, how do you feel?

A: I feel fine.

Q: Really?

A: Yes, really. Yes, of course I’m sad I didn’t win—it was a beautiful award and I worked really hard. I wanted to win, but as I said on twitter, I’m happy people voted the way they felt they needed to. There are other nominations and other Hugos. All voices need to be heard. I don’t want to dwell on anything else. It’s done for me.

Q: What about the numbers?

A: The numbers came out exactly as I thought they would. Without “No Award,” Mike Resnick would’ve won.

Q: What about the nomination numbers, discounting the slates?

A: I saw that I probably would’ve been 6th or 7th nomination place in Best Editor, Short Form. Respectable. More importantly, I saw that CHICKS DIG GAMING got 92 nomination votes in the Best Related Work category—second only to Jo Walton’s WHAT MAKES THIS BOOK SO GREAT. Which meant, incidentally, I lost a second time on Hugo night. I lost an Alfie to Jo. Still, that means I probably would’ve been nominated for a Hugo whether there was a slate or not. So, I’m feeling pretty good about things.

(15) David Gerrold on Facebook

First, the offer to buy him [Lou Antonelli] a beer was made before he wrote his letter to the Spokane police chief. After he wrote that letter, that promise was not one I wanted to keep at Worldcon.

Second, my exact words were: “Lou, I might have forgiven you. That doesn’t mean I want to talk to you.” I am quite certain about what I said. I have forgiven him. I just didn’t know then and don’t know now what I want to say to him.

Which is why I said what I said — not to be rude, but to avoid a situation for which I was unprepared, a situation where I might say something inappropriate, something that might exacerbate an already unfortunate situation.

I did recognize that Lou’s intentions were peaceful, but that moment was neither the time nor the place. There were too many people watching both of us, many of them still upset or concerned. There were too many possibilities for Russian telephone.

It is possible that at some time in the future, Lou and I will be able to sit down and talk together, but it cannot happen while so many people are still feeling raw.

I do ask that everyone drop the subject. I do not want Lou to be the target of anyone’s internet jihad. He made a mistake. He apologized. I accepted his apology. I just didn’t want to get into that situation then. I do not want to rehash it endlessly.

(16) Arthur Chu on Salon – “The scifi fans are alright: I saw the future at the Hugo Awards – and it will never belong to the tox right-wing trolls”

My experience talking about social issues in geeky fandom online is one of constant attacks and sniping and arguing and “controversy”. If you clicked on the #HugoAwards hashtag Saturday night you could see a steady stream of 4chan-style obscenities, slurs and assorted nastiness from people not present.

But in person? To paraphrase the great Bill Hicks, I saw a lot of division among convention attendees about the Sad Puppies “movement”; people who viewed the movement with frustrated rage and people who viewed the movement with bemused pity.

There were, to be sure, plenty of personal beefs and political differences. I met many people I’d argued with online about various topics. Plenty of people had negative things to say about the response to the Sad Puppies, saying that other people had been too harsh or too hostile or too unhelpful in tone.

But defending the Puppies’ actions? Not a single person I met took that stance. The “controversy” didn’t exist outside the Internet. Everyone across the spectrum was united by sheer astonishment at how assholish the move to game the nominations was.

[Thanks to Andrew Trembley, John King Tarpinian and Greg Hullender for some of these links.]


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732 thoughts on “Enriching Your Puppy Vocabulary 8/26

  1. An open letter to Baen:

    Based on the actions of Larry Correia, I have decided to never buy one of his books. I am not even sure about reading a free (library) book with him as author. The main reason is I have zero desire to have any of my hard earned money go to a jerk and an asshole. Please note this also now applies to Orson Scott Card, although I am able to separate his political views from his skill as a writer – but I was reading Mr Card (SF, not the Mormon propaganda) long before I knew he was now an asshole. Mr Correia might be a good writer, but I have no incentive to even give him a chance.

    I will continue to buy other books from Baen. Y’all do a great job. Of course, I will also buy books from Tor. They also do a great job. I happen to like military SF and other sub-genres, including hard SF and anthropology based themes.

    Yours, a long-time SF fan, bandit

  2. Nicole J LeBoeuf-Little said:

    “Oh hey! John Seavey! (’cause you just posted something and reminded me that I’d been meaning to ask.) You mentioned you have a Patreon campaign – would you be willing to link that here? I couldn’t find it and I would like to.”

    Alright, but don’t tell my parents what I write. 🙂

    http://www.patreon.com/Jukebox

    It is 100% smut–the Patreon page itself is worksafe, but absolutely none of the stories it links to are. It may not be your cup of tea.

  3. @Postmaster
    Thanks. That helped.

    I’m sure that by the time I’m next at a con, having a raft of “Morlock and proud if it” ribbons would be very old news…

  4. Ginger said:

    And thanks to Teemu for generating that app!

    I am, in all modesty, a skilled web developer, one of the finest coding today.

  5. @Meredith, @rrede

    True, but I’m fairly certain Mary Robinette Kowal is Firstname Middlename Marriedname.

    Thanks! I will say however that I may not have been the only one to assume Robinette was not a middle name but that evil double barrelled feminist thing ruining good men’s names and pronouns–assumptions are bad, but we all make them. And as we’ve seen the puppies never worry if they’re correct or not.

    Major major thank yous, hugs’n’kisses [virtual], and offers to buy you goodies/drinks of your choice should we ever chance to meet offline–maybe Finland in 2017! to Aan, Snowcrash, Tegan, and Rail

  6. VDs magisterial response is “you’re a very stupid little freak”.

    That’s a quote from Aristotle, you know. Taurokoprika Book 1.

  7. Oh, Teemu. Your modesty brings tears to my eyes.

    (Who is going to write a modest Balrog?)

    I shall take on the Parvo Pups, as I have extensive experience with this group, and as a firm believer in the efficacy of vaccination, can contribute towards the eradication of this particular evil.

    Onwards!

  8. @Meredith: Hah, out of interest I googled, and found that “Robinette” is a surname (family names are often given as middle names). I don’t know how accurate this info is (I chose from a number of hits that came up): Surname Robinette

    I also realized that because the woman who cuts my hair and whose husband works on my campus has that same surname, I was already primed to to speak…..

  9. @Ginger – oh god, bill yourself as the Parvo Pups and I’ll send money while shuddering. Only had to see that come into the vet’s once, and once was far more than enough.

  10. @Ginger

    (Who is going to write a modest Balrog?)

    The Balrog, one of the finest working today, modestly drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall….

  11. clif:

    anybody read any of those beyond Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Flowers for Algernon?

    Sure. THE WITCHES OF KARRES is terrific.

    now seriously, if Flowers for Algernon and Babel-17 had been published and nominated today … would the puppies screech any less about message fic?

    No. They describe an imagined past, and wail that the present doesn’t match it, while refusing to admit that the past didn’t match it either.

  12. Chad Saxelid said:

    “LYING LIAR!!! ARISTOTLE! RHETORIC! MENSA!”

    That reminds me of the best bad insult in Doctor Who: Sil, furious to the point of incoherence in ‘Vengeance on Varos’, shouts, “You…lying liar!” Nabil Shaban pulled it off wonderfully.

  13. @rrede:

    I will say however that I may not have been the only one to assume Robinette was not a middle name but that evil double barrelled feminist thing ruining good men’s names and pronouns

    Actually, when I first moved to NC in *mumblemumble*, they insisted that the name on my drivers license had to be Firstname Maidenname Marriedname. It’s an old and honored tradition for a woman’s legal name to appear so. What Wright et al object to is the husband adopting it as well.

    @Zil: Indexed Database API might be a place to start.

  14. I went to bed before Theodore Beale’s self-published back patting went up on Amazon. But it solidifies an impression that has been running through my mind since I first heard about the Puppies, a little before the Hugos this year.

    With the caveat that I’ve never attended Worldcom, but was a Hugos voter in previous years. So I may have missed out on some personality politics. In professional wrestling there is a recurring pattern when the bookers want to build up one party as a true villain, and another party as a true hero. The villain (in this metaphor, the Non-Puppy voters) run through a series of ‘jobbers’ or ‘job guys’ – wrestlers whose job is to take the loss, so as to build up the renown of their opponents. The more wins the villain gets, the more impressive it is when the hero puts him down.

    Of course, in pro wrestling, the jobbers know it’s a work. They take their paycheck and go on to the next town. But I don’t think Teddy really explained to guys like JCW that they were getting set up to take the pinfall so he could sweep in next year and overcome the lying, hateful SJWs. This might explain some of the twitter meltdowns and bad behaviors, when anyone with two brain cells to rub together could have seen it coming.

    The Rabid Puppy side, at least, is a total work.

  15. Nick:

    I could see No Award stinging more if the Hugo for Best 770 poster went like this:

    McJulie
    Meredith
    Bruce
    Paul
    NO AWARD
    Mamatas

    Well, shit, Mamatas, at least you made the ballot! Imagine how the rest of us feel!

    CPaca:

    Which part of the word “they” do you not understand? It was a reference to this trope, Ann –

    As a thought exercise, it might be worth considering if you’d have made the same comment if the Filistas you were bored by were both male.

  16. And of course Erin’s detractors almost to a one attempt to put her down with sexual slurs.

  17. It’s like they can’t make any good argument, so they have to go right to the shitposter’s toolbox!

  18. And of course Erin’s detractors almost to a one attempt to put her down with sexual slurs.

    I’m maybe 85% sure that’s not one of the tactics VD suggests in the book. Although like them I’ve not read it.

  19. TheYoungPretender:Both Day and Sriduangkaew have a gift for presenting themselves as noble martyrs, facts bedamned.

    And that’s just scratching the surface of their similarities. Born to great wealth and privilege, displaying a deep seated sociopathic view of other people, xenophobic, sexist, racist, transphobic, classist, bad writers(though differently bad), terrible readers, useless reviewers, and possessing a knack to surround themselves with useful idiots willing to debase themselves for their causes.

    No wonder their favorite targets show a lot of overlap in their respective Venn diagrams.

  20. And that’s just scratching the surface of their similarities. Born to great wealth and privilege, displaying a deep seated sociopathic view of other people, xenophobic, sexist, racist, transphobic, classist, bad writers(though differently bad), terrible readers, useless reviewers, and possessing a knack to surround themselves with useful idiots willing to debase themselves for their causes.

    . . .and now, I ‘ship it.

  21. In no particular order …

    I, too, value Ann’s comments here.

    Hope you recover fast and completely, Meredith.

    People know, dont’t they, that Too Many Magicians is a take-off on a Nero Wolfe novel with a very similar name, and that Wolfe and Archie Goodwin are actually in it? I enjoyed it, but can’t give it any points for originality.

  22. @rrede
    I triple-checked her given name versus her maiden name I was so paranoid about getting it wrong. As someone with a name that has now, finally, managed to lure the same number of non-Puppies as Puppies into putting in two i’s (although I credit this in part to developing a habit of not directly @ing Puppies, who seem to prefer skimming for posts with their nym after the first comment, and so I rarely get Puppy replies these days), as well an an extensive history of verbal no-not-Mary-no-not-Miriam-either (ad infinitum down the list of m’s), I try very hard to get names and nyms accurate and properly described where possible.

    I also have a surname that is so consistently misspelled I usually give it as [name] spelled [letter order], despite being a well-known if not terribly common surname.

  23. useful idiots willing to debase themselves for their causes

    In all modesty, some of the finest useful idiots working today.

  24. I take dibs on “Procrastinating Pups”. Unless somebody already got it because I’m posting so late.

    We vow to get our slate up by January February March April May June July… wait, when are the Hugos again?

  25. Some of the slurs re: Erin are intended to be transphobic, too. (Note: No idea whether Erin is trans or not, none of my business, but VD thinks she is. Either way, they’re transphobic in nature.)

    ETA: and because I’m awful and managed to miss it:

    @Msb

    Thank you 🙂

  26. Joining Anna Feruglio dal Dann and Nick Mamatas: I’m a communist too. (though I don’t post much so there’s not much context for people who don’t know me in other contexts).

  27. Meredith, yes, horribly transphobic, and vile. There is nothing that I know of to indicate Erin is trans other than her avatar shows her wearing a trilby (how very manly of her /sarcasm)

    Thanks to all of you who spoke up about the sexist insults, and to those who said kind words about me.

  28. Nicole J LeBoeuf-Little said:

    “I do not know yet whether it will be, but I am pleased to peruse and ascertain. :)”

    If you (or anyone else for that matter) do follow the links all the way through to stories, a couple of not-bad places to start might be “Look What the Cat Dragged In”, “God Save the Queen”, “The Reflex”, or “Trigger Happy”. They’re at least nominally SFF, albeit with adult elements, and the first one is pretty funny if I do say so myself. (The first two are fantasy, the last two are SF.)

  29. The comments sections at places like that make me think of Walter’s “at least it’s an ethos” line in The Big Lebowski. One of those sites’ leaders even kind of dresses like Uli Kunkel.

  30. Thanks to all of you who spoke up about the sexist insults, and to those who said kind words about me.

    Reading back through the thread, yeah, please do stick around. 🙂

  31. I have not read all that much on the first list of the Joe Doakes Challenge, only five of the twenty books. I enjoyed all those five however. Dune being my personal favourite, but it still doesn’t rank in my personal top 10 books I enjoyed.

    I have read more of the second list, 11 of the 22 books. Enjoyed them all as well, in fact I can’t think of a Hugo winning book that I have read and not enjoyed (which is saying something as I can be rather fussy). Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell has become the only Hugo winner that I have read, to make my personal top 10 most enjoyable books, coming in 5th (behind Gore Vidal’s Julian, the first Harry Potter book, the Hobbit and Terry Pratchett’s Equal Rites).

    I was curious how the challenge would go if you applied goodread ratings to it, and because I apparently have nothing better to do I looked up the numbers.

    The first list has a total score of 77.28. However this is only 20 books, so I added Rendezvous with Rama and The Dispossessed to the list so it would match the second list. This brings the score up to 85.46.

    The second list’s total score came out at 87.19. I was going to also look at total number of ratings, the first list came out at around 1.1 million ratings. But then I got to Harry Potter on the second, which by itself had 1.4 million ratings.

    I also added up the scores for the winners in between the lists. I had 20 books, so again I added to bring the list up to 22. For this list I took the numbers for The Dispossessed from the fist list (my addition to it at least) and Mirror Dance the first thing on the second list. The total for the middle 20 years(ish) of the Hugos came out at 89.11.

    So according to goodreads (which is no authority on taste or quality, just the largest book rating site I could think of) there is not a huge shift in quality between these twenty year lists.

  32. @Hyperbolus: That’s hilarious because during the Late Unpleasantness the Pups were forever throwing around Goodreads scores and Amazon ratings.

  33. @Jonathan Edelstein

    Then I’m very confused about why so many Puppies have felt the need to demand a yes or no answer about it over the last few months.

  34. @RedWombat: I actually have a funny Parvo pup story, from when I was in private practice in North Carolina. This was an upscale urban practice, where 99% of the clients vaccinated their pups early and often, so the front office staff were not used to seeing pups with diarrhea in the waiting room. I was in the back office, waiting for the next appointment, when the receptionist hurried back, sounding very panicked about the possibility of parvo. We got the folks and their 8-month old husky into an exam room. Upon taking a history, I find they had skipped the vaccines (back then, around $25). When I explained that this was very likely to be parvo — I may have had a positive test to show them, don’t recall — the wife turned to the husband, smacked him, and said, “See?!? I told you we should get the shot!”

    They could not afford any more than $200 for the pup’s treatment. I said, fine, be here tomorrow with your $200 and we’ll keep your pup here for treatment tonight. I did, too. Luckily, at that age, they have some innate protection.

    It’s the only funny parvo story I have. I was working in private practices (as an assistant) when the pandemic swept through the U.S. Not fun.

    Vaccinate! VAX-IN-ATE! Or you’ll end up with Day-leks.

  35. Madame Hardy:

    In recent years, BBC sound engineering has done ahorrible job of mixing down from surround sound to stereo. (Look up the furore about “Jamaica Inn”, for one.) We have found that if you want to hear the dialogue in any BBC drama, you must buy a sound bar so that the center channel is clear. Backward-compatibility fail.

    I’m glad to hear it’s not just me. I might have finished the series if I wasn’t thinking, “You know, in the book I didn’t have to wonder what the hell they said!” on a regular basis.

  36. Quite a few television shows and films, and not just BBC ones, have annoyed the hell out of me with fuzzed up dialogue tracks in the last few years.

  37. Meredith said: “Then I’m very confused about why so many Puppies have felt the need to demand a yes or no answer about it over the last few months.”

    You may be misremembering–ISTR that it was Brianna Wu that was getting harassed about that, and she issued a statement that said, in essence, “Fuck you, it shouldn’t matter and I’m not giving you the satisfaction of telling you one way or another.” Which was pretty damn awesome. 🙂

    Alexandra is under no obligation to share that information to anyone she doesn’t want knowing, but if she wants to, then I’m proud to support her on that too.

  38. I have it in my head that I’ve read the term “ChiCom” somewhere before in some SF book but for the life of me can’t pin it down. OR maybe it was ChiComm, instead.
    Either way, I got what she meant immediately as it was used as a shorthand for “Red China”–remember that?
    But it’s probably going to sit in the back of my head trying to remember what book I read it in. So far, the best I can do is that it was a paperback and I read it in the 60s.

  39. @Harold Osler: I’m half convinced Heinlein used the term in Farnham’s Freehold. But for goddam sure I am not procuring a copy of that book to check…

  40. @John Seavey

    No, I remember that one as well. I spent a few months collecting source links for GamerGate because I was so annoyed with the same false claims popping up over and over again. I’m fairly sure there was some Puppies trying that with Erin as well (in the comments here and I think on twitter), but, of course, very strong medication, disclaimer’d memory, etc..

    @rrede

    Sigh. The anti-diversity core gets around some, doesn’t it?

  41. Ed on August 27, 2015 at 9:02 am said:
    Was it Hoyt that made the crack about SJW’s voting for 3BP because we all are commies?
    That was weird, what with VD endorsing 3BP, so I imagine most of the rabids voted for it.
    And it was a Tor book, that they are meant to be boycotting, but then voted for it, and now it will sell a lot more with that ‘Hugo Winner’ sticker on it.

    No consistency with these people.

    I’m reminded of a quote from Mother Night

    ‘You talk about the Catholics and the Negroes – ‘ said the G-man, ‘and yet, here your two best friends are a Catholic and a Negro.’
    ‘What’s so mysterious about that?’ said Jones.
    ‘Don’t you hate them?’ said the G-man.
    ‘Certainly not,’ said Jones. ‘We all believe the same basic thing.’
    ‘What’s that?’ said the G-man.
    ‘This once-proud country of ours is falling Into the hands of the wrong people,’ said Jones. He nodded, and so did Father Keeley and the Black Fuehrer. ‘And, before it gets back on the right track,’ said Jones, ‘some heads are going to roll.’
    I have never seen a more sublime demonstration of the totalitarian mind, a mind which might be likened unto a system of gears whose teeth have been filed off at random. Such a snaggle-toothed thought machine, driven by a standard or even a substandard libido, whirls with the jerky, noisy, gaudy pointlessness of a cuckoo clock in Hell.

  42. @snowcrash

    Any day now Stephenson will figure out how to properly end his novels….

    In my opinion, he figured this out in Cryptonomicon and afterward. It certainly bothered me in his earlier novels, and stopped bothering me later (though maybe I just grew numb to it).

  43. I’m half convinced Heinlein used the term in Farnham’s Freehold. But for goddam sure I am not procuring a copy of that book to check…

    An Amazon “look inside!” search turns up no uses of ChiCom in FARNHAM.

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