aka “Let’s get Sirius!”
In today’s roundup: Andrew Liptak, Jim C. Hines, Damien G. Walter, Tom Knighton, David Gerrold, Irene Gallo, Brad R. Torgersen, Sarah A. Hoyt, Vox Day, Michael Z. Williamson, Markov Kern, bhalsop, sciphi, Jonathan LaForce, Cedar Sanderson, Amanda S. Green, Jon F. Zeigler, C. E. Petit, Lis Carey, Rebekah Golden, Mark Ciocco, amd George R.R. Martin. (Title credit belongs to Whym and Anna Nimmhaus.)
Andrew Liptak on io9
“Women Dominate The 2015 Nebula Awards” – June 7
Takeaways from this? With the exception of the Best Novel award, women swept the slate in all other categories, notable in light of the Sad/Rabid Puppies controversy with this year’s Hugo Awards.
Jim C. Hines
“Puppies in Their Own Words” – June 7
I’ve spent several hours on this, which is ridiculous. I don’t even know why, except that I’m frustrated by all of the “I never said…” “He really said…” “No he didn’t, you’re a lying liar!” “No, you’re the lying liar!” and so on.
An infinite number of monkeys have said an infinite number of things about the Hugos this year. People on all sides have said intelligent and insightful things, and people on all sides have said asinine things. The amount of words spent on this makes the Wheel of Time saga look like flash fiction. File770 has been doing an admirable job of posting links to the ongoing conversation.
I wanted to try to sort through the noise and hone in on what Correia and Torgersen themselves have been saying. As the founder and current leader, respecitvely, of the Sad Puppies, it seems fair to look to them for what the puppy campaign is truly about…..
So are Brad and Larry racist? Sexist? Homophobic? What about their slates?
I don’t see an active or conscious effort to shut out authors who aren’t straight white males.
I do see that the effect of the slates was to drastically reduce the number of women on the final ballots.
Torgersen made a now-infamously homophobic remark about John Scalzi, which he later apologized for. I don’t see this as suggesting Torgersen is a frothing bigot; it does suggest he has some homophobic attitudes or beliefs he should probably reexamine and work on.
More central to the Sad Puppies, when I see Brad railing against “affirmative action” fiction, I see a man who seems utterly incapable of understanding sometimes people write “non-default” characters not because they’re checking off boxes on a quota, but because those are the stories they want to tell, and the characters they want to write about. Dismissing all of those amazing, wonderful, and award-winning stories as nothing but affirmative-action cases? Yeah, that’s sounds pretty bigoted to me.
https://twitter.com/damiengwalter/status/607618525813829633
Remember that #SadPuppies think the other side in this is wrong. The anti-Sad Puppies think the other side is evil.
No compromise possible
— Tom Knighton (@TheTomKnighton) June 7, 2015
David Gerrold on Facebook – June 7
Here’s how self-fulfilling paranoia works.
Decide that something has been taken away from you — even if it hasn’t. And even if you were never entitled to it in the first place.
Then, find a group of someones to blame for taking it away from you — even if they had nothing to do with your perceived loss. (Women, LGBTs, People of Color, SJWs, liberals, whatever.) Make sure it’s a big important group with big important members.
Appoint that group — it has to be a group — the enemy. Accuse them of horrible behaviors. This is the important step. You can’t be a victim without a persecutor. So you have to say or do something so egregious that the other guys will have to respond. Their response is the proof that you are being persecuted. Even if their response is, “Huh? Who are you?” — that’s just evidence that they’ve been deliberately ignoring your importance.
As soon as you engage that very big, very important group in a dialog, you achieve credibility — theirs. You are obviously just as important as they are. The more they engage with you, the more they respond to you, the more important you are. Therefore — you must continue to escalate so as to use up more and more of their time, so as to prove just how truly truly truly big and powerful and important you are.
When the other side brings out facts, logic, evidence, rational thought, and methodical deconstruction, you must repeat your original claims, change the subject, make new charges, or point to this as evidence of their continuing persecution. The more you do this, the more followers you will attract. Everybody loves the underdog — it’s your job to be the persecuted underdog.
This tactic works for any political or social position. It worked for extreme-left activist groups in the sixties and seventies — it eventually marginalized them out of the political process. They had to grow up or get out.
Irene Gallo on Facebook – May 11
[Here is a direct link. Perhaps it was always public and I just didn’t scroll back far enough when I searched yesterday.]
Irene Gallo in a comment on Facebook – June 6
Not friends, rest assured. And ZOMG, teeth! Somehow this got dug up from early last month and pitchforks are out. And since then more people are aware of, and excited about, the upcoming Hurley book. So as long as the thread lasts, we’re spreading the good news.
Brad R. Torgersen in a comment on Facebook – June 6
Irene Gallo, I am going to ask a question, and I expect a response other than a cat picture non sequitur. How did you arrive at your conclusion that Sad Puppies is “neo nazi”?
Sarah A. Hoyt on According To Hoyt
“Shout it from the rooftops” – June 7
However, let’s be clear: mud sticks. Get something associated with unspeakable sins like “racism, sexism, homophobia” and the idiots will go on repeating it forever, no matter how often it’s disproved. This is how they came up with the notion that Brad Torgersen is in an interracial marriage to disguise his racism, or that Sad Puppies is about pushing women and minorities from the ballot, even though the suggested authors include both women and minorities. And I’m not sure what has been said about me. Echoes have reached back, such as a gay friend emailing me (joking. He’s not stupid, and he was mildly upset on my behalf) saying he’d just found out I wanted to fry all gay people in oil and that he needed a safe room just to email me from. Then there was the German Fraulein who has repeatedly called me a Fascist (you know, those authoritarian libertari—wait, what?) and her friends who declared Kate and I the world’s worst person (we’re one in spirit apparently) as well as calling me in various twitter storms a “white supremacist” (which if you’ve met me is really funny.) A friend told me last week that he defended me on a TOR editor’s thread. I don’t even know what they were saying about me there. I make it a point of not following all the crazy around, so I have some mental space to write from.
However, enough people have told me about attacks, that I know my name as such is tainted with the publishing establishment (not that I care much, mind) and that some of it might leak to the reading public (which is why G-d gave us pennames.)….
This feebleness of mind was in stunning display recently in the Facebook page of one Irene Gallo, Creative Director at TOR. (I hope that’s an art-related thing. Or do they think authors need help being creative?)….
Note that those statements are so wrong they’re not even in the same universe we inhabit. Note also that when she talks about “bad to reprehensible” stories pushed into the ballot by the Sad Puppies, she’s talking about one of her house’s own authors, a multiple bestseller, and also of John C. Wright who works for her house as well.
Note also that when one of my fans jumped in and tried to correct the misconceptions, she responded with daft cat pictures.
https://twitter.com/voxday/status/607571265537363969
https://twitter.com/mzmadmike/status/607257593824845824
Hugo awards are the work of those who claim to know the truth and who control the official version of events.
— Markov Kern (@sealion_ebooks) June 7, 2015
Has the Hugo award for most egregious use of the bloc vote been awarded yet? Is it for "the right wing of darkness"?
— diskgrinder (@diskgrinder) June 8, 2015
bhalsop
“Tor and Sad/Rabid Puppies” – June 7
There is a war going on in the blogosphere between certain employees of Tor, the once great publisher of scifi/fantasy, and the proponents of alternate slates for the Hugo, the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies. I have watched it with some interest, since I am undoubtedly one of those the Puppies in general would not like, but I have found their position actually has merit.
There was a time, many years ago, when one could buy a book honored with the Hugo award and know that the book would be well written, well edited, and thought provoking. This has not been the case for several years, I am sorry to report. In fact, there was a time, again many years ago, that one could buy a book published by Tor, and have a good read that might be thought provoking but was at minimum a good story well told. This is sadly no longer the case. I used to buy a Tor book even if the blurb wasn’t particularly inviting, because I trusted Tor. This is no longer the case.
Tor employees have attacked the Sad/Rabid Puppies as racist, misogynist, right wing whackos. The fact is that this reviling became much louder after the Sad Puppy slate won most of the Hugo niminations. What? They outvoted you? Doesn’t this sound like the Republicans after our current president was elected? Are you sure you want to go there?
sciphi on Superversive SF
“Irene Gallo, #Sadpuppies, #Gamergate and Tor” – June 7
What I find particularly insulting is that I have been following #Gamergate for quite a while, since at least Internet Aristocrats original Quinnspiracy videos, and I am extremely right wing (Nazi’s and Neo-Nazi’s aren’t though, fascists really were/are kissing cousins of socialists), and I can tell you for a fact that the talking heads of #Gamergate like Sargon of Akkad are thorough going leftwing moderates, they just aren’t frothing at the mouth SJW’s (I guess that makes them “far-right” in SJW land). I’m insulted as an arch conservative and reactionary to be regarded as basically the same as such thorough going hippies.
Jonathan LaForce on Mad Genius Club
“Dear Tor” – June 7
Tor, let’s face facts: that you repeatedly allow straw man makers like John Scalzi to have a place in your stable, even as he vainly justifies his arrogant idiocy is absurd. To allow bigots like NK Jemisin bully pulpits without regard for fact or truth is wrong. To encourage people to put one-star reviews on Amazon, simply because you don’t like an author’s politics, rather than because you didn’t like the story is not only disgusting, it is a willful manipulation of the Amazon rating system.
Whereas I believe in the principles of the free market, I don’t want to see somebody create new laws over this. We already have government invading our bedrooms, our computers and our bank accounts daily. No, ladies and gentlemen, instead I ask you this:
Don’t buy anything made by TOR. Not pamphlets. Not novels, not audiobooks. Not even if it’s free. Let Tor know that they do not decide what we want as fans of science fiction and fantasy. Instead, I ask that those of you whom trust my opinion cease to buy their products ever again. Show them that in the end, the consumer drives the market. Why? Because nobody can make you buy anything. Not health care, not books, not movies. NOT A SINGLE DAMN THING.
In older times, a bard who couldn’t sing or orate well, much less properly play an instrument (in short, when the bard could not perform well, the crowd kicked him out. And he went hungry until he got better or he died from starvation. Or he found a new profession that he was actually good at.
Tom Knighton
“Tor Creative Director bashes Tor authors among others” – June 7
Based on how she phrased this, she’s implying that that both Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies are extreme right wing to neo-Nazis. Now, I generally don’t defend Rabid Puppies because Vox is a big boy and can fight his own battles, and since I’m not part of that group I really can’t speak for it. Vox has seen this, and I suspect he’ll jump in soon enough.
As a Sad Puppy, I’m freaking pissed.
First, I’m sick of being called “unrepentantly racist, mysogynist, and homophobic” simply because I don’t like their taste in books or because I disagree with them about what the government should spend its money doing. It’s funny, because these are the same people who bitch about “slut shaming” or “fat shaming” or whatever, but now they’re trying to “thought shame”, like we’re horrid human beings just because we don’t trip over ourselves on identity issues. No evidence, no examples, nothing except libelous rhetoric. Nothing….
I’ve read multiple times that Tor isn’t so much a publishing house as a series of editorial fiefdoms, a confederation of miniature publishing houses under a single roof and a shared marketing and art department. If that’s true, then there probably isn’t a lot of oversight on these kinds of things, so I really don’t think there will be any kind of change.
Cedar Sanderson
“Fear and Loathing at TOR” – June 7
Almost since the advent of the internet, there have been warnings about what to say – or not – on it. The internet is a vast and mostly public arena. Imagine, if you can, standing in Grand Central Station and screaming slurs at the top of your lungs, while the sane people standing near you back away slowly. Online, this doesn’t happen. One person starts screaming and frothing at the mouth, and others are drawn like moths to the flame to scream along with them.
This is disturbing and upsetting, but it is easy enough to avoid this kind of behaviour if you want to (and some like to troll-bait. Personally, I find it unkind to taunt the mentally ill and don’t stoop to pillorying their personal lives). On occasion, though, we are not dealing with a lone individual, but one that is tied to a corporate identity. And this situation is why most reputable companies have policies in place about the use of social media. Because when a person using their real name, which can easily be tied to their workplace, starts to cast slurs on their own colleagues, not to mention large sections of the business’s client base, that can reflect very badly on their employer.
Amanda S. Green on Nocturnal Lives
“Interrupting my vacation and not happy about it” – June 7
But what galls me is how she calls us “Extreme right-wing to Neo-Nazi”. To begin with, if she were to really look at who wound up on the final ballot, especially those backed by the Sad Puppies, she would see that there are conservative, libertarian AND liberals represented. There are women and minorities. If I remember correctly, not everyone on the ballot is straight. (I don’t remember because I don’t care what a person’s sexual preference. It has nothing to do with their ability as a writer.)
Then there is the personal reaction. Ms. Gallo doesn’t know me and I don’t know her. So she doesn’t understand what sort of wound she opened for my family by calling me “extreme right-wing to Neo-Nazi”. My family comes from Germany and the Netherlands. Fortunately, the family was here before Hitler came to power. But they remember what it was like living in parts of this country and having to defend themselves because they had a Germanic last name. Nazism is and always will be a personal anathema to my family and to be called a follower of that hated philosophy/government is beyond acceptable.
Did she commit slander or libel? No. Did she consider the impact her words would have on other people? I don’t know. Part of me wants to believe that she did not but I have my doubts. She used a number of “trigger” words in her response, words meant to create a negative impression. She did not consider or care about how her allegation would impact fans of those authors she was condemning nor did she apparently think or care about how such a hateful allegation could possibly lead to termination of employment.
https://twitter.com/JFZeigler/status/607566847681134593
C. E. Petit on Scrivener’s Error
“Pre-Road-Kill Link Sausages” – June 6
There’s a proposal to tweak Hugo voting rules somewhat jocularly labelled E Pluribus Hugo that I cannot support, for three reasons. First, it depends upon accepting the proposition that a popular vote among those who pay a poll tax to vote is the best way to determine actual quality. (I’d be probably be more supportive if the Hugos themselves were renamed from “Best” to “Favorite.”) Second, it does nothing whatsoever to deal with the far-more-serious problems of source restrictiveness and the inept calendar (really? for an award issued in late August, we start nominations in January?). Third, at a fundamental level it fails to engage with the dynamics of cliquishness (for both real and imagined cliques, I should note) that are at issue; in fact, it bears a disturbing resemblance to the evolution of voting patterns in Jim Crow country following passage of the Voting Rights Act in 1964, if not with the same obvious discriminatory animus.
I think this proposal has been put forth in good faith, in a highly conservative attempt to retain, and even reify, a particular (and wildly inaccurate) fannish/SMOFish perception of what the Hugos “are” and “mean.” The irony of that characterization is intentional, especially compared to the various canine complaints; it is obvious, disturbing, and all too typical of attempts to tweak selection mechanisms without pondering what is being selected… and whether that requires a farther-reaching change.
Rebekah Golden
“Reviewing; Meta Post” – June 7
This goes back to my post about Totaled. It was a good story. Had some interesting ideas. Didn’t do it for me and I think the reason why not has to do with compelling questions. Look at Ancillary Justice and the story is full of compelling questions. Then there’s Mono No Aware.
Cutting for spoilers about Mono No Aware, Totaled, and me….
Mark Ciocco on Kaedrin Weblog
“Hugo Awards: Short Stories” – June 7
My feelings on short stories are decidedly mixed, because most of the short fiction I read is from collections that are, by their very nature, uneven. As with Anthology Films, I generally find myself exhausted by the inconsistency. Also, as someone who tends to gravitate towards actual storytelling rather than character sketches or tone poems (or similar exercises in style), a short story can be quite difficult to execute. A lot must be accomplished in a short time, and a certain economy of language is needed to make it all work. There are some people who are great at this sort of thing, but I find them few and far between, so collections of short stories tend to fall short even if they include stories I love. In my experience, the exceptions tend to be collections from a single author, like Asimov’s I, Robot or Barker’s Books of Blood. That being said, I’ve been reading significantly more short fiction lately, primarily because of my participation in the Hugo Awards. I found myself quite disappointed with last year’s nominated slate, so I actually went the extra mile this year and read a bunch of stuff so that I could participate in the nomination portion of the process. Of course, none of my nominees actually made the final ballot. Such is the way of the short story award (with so many options, the votes tend to be pretty widely spread out, hence all the consternation about the Puppy slates which probably gave their recommendations undue influence this year). But is the ballot any better this year? Only one way to find out, and here are the results, in handy voting order:
- Totaled by Kary English – Told from the perspective of a brain that has been separated from its body (courtesy of a car accident) and subsequently preserved in a device that presumably resembles that which was used to preserve Walt Disney’s head or something. In the story, this is new technology, so the process is imperfect and while the brain can be kept alive for a significant amount of time, it still only amounts to around 6 months or so. Fortunately, the disembodied brain in question was the woman leading the project, so she’s able to quickly set up a rudimentary communication scheme with her lab partner. Interfaces for sound and visuals are ginned up and successful, but by that point the brain’s deterioration has begun. This could have been one of those pointless tone poems I mentioned earlier, but English keeps things approachable, taking things step by step. The portrayal of a brain separated from the majority of its inputs (and outputs, for that matter), and slowly regaining some measure of them as time goes on, is well done and seems realistic enough. One could view some of the things portrayed here as pessimistic, but I didn’t really read it that way. When the brain deteriorates, she eventually asks to be disconnected before she loses all sense of lucidity (the end of the story starts to lilt into an Algernon-like devolution of language into simplistic quasi-stream of consciousness prose). I suppose this is a form of suicide, but it was inevitable at that point, and the experimental brain-in-a-jar technology allowed for a closure (both in terms of completing some of her research and even seeing her kids again) that would have otherwise been impossible. I found that touching and effective enough that this was a clear winner in the category.
Lis Carey at Lis Carey’s Library
“Galactic Suburbia, presented by Alis, Alex, and Tansy” – June 7
http://galactisuburbia.podbean.com/
Another Best Fancast Hugo nominee.
Speculative fiction, publishing news, and chat. This podcast comes to us from Australia, and as far as I can find, they do not reveal their last names anywhere on their website. That’s a shame, because these are very engaging people, and they mention up coming book launches. (Feel free to enlighten me in comments. Please!)
George R.R. Martin on Not A Blog
“Reading” – June 7
I also read LINES OF DEPARTURE by Marko Kloos. This was part of the Hugo ballot as originally announced, one of the books put there by the slates… but Kloos, in an act of singular courage and integrity, withdrew. It was his withdrawal that moved THREE-BODY PROBLEM onto the ballot. This is the second book in a series, and I’ve never read the first. Truth be told, I’d never read anything by Kloos before, but I’m glad I read this. It’s military SF, solidly in the tradition of STARSHIP TROOPERS and THE FOREVER WAR. No, it’s not nearly as good as either of those, but it still hands head and shoulders above most of what passes for military SF today. The enigmatic (and gigantic) alien enemies here are intriguing, but aside from them there’s not a lot of originality here; the similarity to THE FOREVER WAR and its three act structure is striking, but the battle scenes are vivid, and the center section, where the hero returns to Earth and visits his mother, is moving and effective. I have other criticisms, but this is not a formal review, and I don’t have the time or energy to expand on them at this point. Bottom line, this is a good book, but not a great one. It’s way better than most of what the Puppies have put on the Hugo ballot in the other categories, but it’s not nearly as ambitious or original as THREE-BODY PROBLEM. Even so, I read this with pleasure, and I will definitely read the next one. Kloos is talented young writer, and I suspect that his best work is ahead of him. He is also a man of principle. I hope he comes to worldcon; I’d like to meet him.
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I find all these discussions so weird. As a reader, I have never looked at what publishing house a book is published. I have looked at reviews and seen if I know of the authors.
I took a look in my library and yes, there were Tor-books and Baen-books, but they were a clear minority both. I feel like an orc looking at a hobbit fight, scratching his head.
I think the level of Puppy outrage over a month-old tossed-off comment buried inside a Facebook conversation probably reflects what a dangerously slow weekend it almost was for the Puppies.
Scalzi’s $3.4 million deal is out of the headlines now, SFWA members are paying attention to the Nebulas, GRRM is probably busy killing off more Starks, and Mike Glyer has finished compiling lists of Puppy round-up titles.
So stumbling across (or suddenly popping up with) a month-old comment by a Tor–TOR! TOR! ah-hah! THE DARK ENEMY EVIL SJW CABAL CHURCH ITSELF!!!… where was I? Oh, right. A month-old comment by a Tor (Tor! Tor! Tor!) employee who called the Puppy names is JUST the thing to refresh the troops, re-rally their rage, and get the spotlight back on their victimhood!
THANK GOD, MAN! There was a real danger for a moment that we might experience an entire 24-hour blog cycle without a deluge of sheer silliness from the Puppies, and that would be an unthinkable disaster of truly microscopic proportions!
Hampus Eckerman: As a reader, I have never looked at what publishing house a book is published. I have looked at reviews and seen if I know of the authors.
I focus on the author’s name and the jacket description of the story. I check a lot of the SFF sites which list new books coming out, and read the story description and reviews of them, to decide whether to put them on my TBR list. If I find an author I really enjoy, I will go find everything I can by them. I don’t really pay attention to the publisher (or the cover art, for that matter).
Having said that, I do tend to notice a publisher when I’ve seen their name repeatedly on the books I’ve chosen and really liked. For example, I see the names Orbit and Tor very, very often on books I enjoy, Gollancz a bit less, and Baen a bit less than that. So I do eventually start to associate a publisher’s name with “Oh, I frequently like what they publish” or “Well, they seem to publish a lot of works which make me say ‘meh'”.
But if the book doesn’t sound appealing, I’m not likely to read it, regardless of who’s published it, and if it sounds appealing, I don’t care who’s published it, I’m going to read it.
It strikes me that the Puppy policy of boycotting publishers rather than authors is really cutting off their noses to spite their own faces. But hey, that’s on them — and I am quite sure that Tor’s sales numbers will be just fine without Puppy participation.
> “So. Any good Tor fantasy recs? Gay protagonists are particularly welcome.”
I’ll have a look round my shelves.
So now that the puppies are calling for a boycott of Tor: How many days until they’re back to “we’re not shutting anyone out, it’s the other side who make threaths about “you won’t work in this town anymore””?
(BTW, given Beale’s support for a right wing terrorist and mass murderer, I think “neo-nazi” is a nice epithet for him. I have some sympathy with other puppies who might feel uncomfortable being lumped in with him – but really, that’s something they should have thought of before they started collaborating with him.)
Johan P
So now that the puppies are calling for a boycott of Tor: How many days until they’re back to “we’re not shutting anyone out, it’s the other side who make threaths about “you won’t work in this town anymore””
Put me down for 2 days.
XS: So. Any good Tor fantasy recs? Gay protagonists are particularly welcome.
Catherine Asaro’s Skolian Saga novels are published by Tor; I’ve read the entire series, and they’re fantastic — she does a really good blend of Hard SF and Fantasy. In at least one of the books there are a couple of peripheral characters who are lesbian and bisexual, respectively; but I don’t remember if there are any others.
Ah the old “Nazis were socialists” thesis/ahistorical bullshit. This is quite a nostalgia trip. How long before the puppies start talking about “premature anti-fascists”?
Elizabeth Bear’s series The Eternal Sky and Edda of Burdens are published by Tor, and I’m willing to bet they’ve got diverse characters. Also, I’ve heard her new Tor steampunk novel, Karen Memory, is fantastic.
*totally ignoring a certain month old FB post*
I read the graphic novel nominees over the weekend, and WOW!
Ms Marvel was sweet and funny. I’m not a huge superhero fan, and not very knowledgeable about the Marvel universe, but I thought Kamalah Khan was a great character. The moment when she stopped shapeshifting herself into a white and blonde form and became a dark skinned superhero made me cheer inside.
When I finished reading, I was sure that none of the other entries could come close. (Those of you who have read the other graphic novels in the Hugo packet may now laugh at me.)
> “So. Any good Tor fantasy recs? Gay protagonists are particularly welcome.”
The following are fantasy books on my shelves I just found out are published by Tor which I would consider HIGHLY RECOMMENDED:
Author — Laurie J. Marks
Book to start with — Fire Logic
Gay protagonists? — Yes! The protagonists of this series are a lesbian couple.
Comments — This series (“Elemental Logic”) deserves far wider recognition than it has gotten. A complex fantasy world with well-drawn characters and thematic depth.
Author — Jo Walton
Book to start with — See below
Gay Protagonists? — Yes, in some books, see below
Comments — A truly excellent author who is a bit difficult to pin down in terms of genre. What you should start with depends on what you are most interested in. “The King’s Peace” duology is epic fantasy. “Among Others” is modern fantasy. The “Farthing” trilogy is alt-history with a gay recurring character. “My Real Children” is … sort of alt-history, with a bisexual protagonist. My personal favorite book by her is probably “Farthing”.
Author — Max Gladstone
Book to start with — Three Parts Dead
Gay Protagonists? — See below
Comments — Max Gladstone made a huge splash with his first book, and there’s a reason. One of the most original and fascinating fantasy worlds to come out in recent years, combined with intricate plotting. I don’t recall the first book in his Craft Sequence, Three Parts Dead, as having much LGBT content, but the second book has a lesbian as minor supporting character, and the third book has a major character / co-protagonist who is probably best described as trans.
Author — Brandon Sanderson
Book to start with — Mistborn
Gay protagonists? — No, see below
Comments — Sanderson is an excellent author known for making worlds where magic follows definable rules. Not all his books are published by Tor, but “Mistborn” and its sequels, which are, are a great introduction to his work. I do not recall any LGBT content in his work, and suspect there is unlikely to be any (the author is Mormon.)
Author — Catherynne M. Valente
Book to start with — See below
Gay protagonists? — See below
Comments — Another brilliant fantasy author, whose works have a mythopoeic feel but have a wide range (she’s written children’s books, some fairly avant-garde fantasy, modern fantasy, fairy tale fantasy, historic fantasy, etc.) The book I have by her that is published by Tor is “Deathless”, based on Russian fairy tales. It’s very good, but I’m not sure it’s the best introduction to her work. It might be better to start with “Palimpsest”, one of her modern fantasies which I recall as having LGBT content / characters, and move on to others from there.
More coming!
When did “puppy kickers” enter the lexicon? It seems to be this week’s “anti-pup”
The following are fantasy books on my shelves I just found out are published by Tor which I would consider MODERATELY RECOMMENDED, but with possible caveats:
Author — Jacqueline Carey
Book to start with — Kushiel’s Dart
Gay protagonists? — Often, see below
Comments — People tend to either love or hate this series. I think the first trilogy, that starts with “Kushiel’s Dart”, is excellent, but then the subsequent ones go quickly downhill (I believe there are three trilogies set in this fantasy universe so far.) The books are epic fantasy which frequently verge into eroticism. The protagonists of this series are pretty much all bisexual; however, the main romance in the first couple of trilogies is male/female. (Incidentally, if you don’t mind something a bit more science-fictiony, her book “Santa Olivia”, unrelated to her fantasy and not published by Tor, is a great book with a lesbian protagonist that I do not think comes with a “love it or hate it” caveat.)
Author — Kendare Blake
Book to start with — Anna Dressed in Blood
Gay protagonists? — Not that I recall
Comments — Kendare Blake writes good books. They aren’t quite at the level of the “highly recommended” authors, but I enjoyed reading them. In addition to the “Anna Dressed in Blood” duology, which concerns ghosts, she has a series about Greek gods. Both are modern fantasy.
Author — Carrie Vaughn
Book to start with — After the Golden Age
Gay protagonists? — Not that I recall
Comments — Carrie Vaughn is sometimes hit-or-miss, but I usually find her work at least fun. The “Golden Age” duology, probably her best work, is about super-heroes, so I’d only recommend that if you’re into them. Her extremely long “Kitty Norville” modern fantasy series starts out a bit rocky but eventually becomes fun beach / popcorn reading. I remember some LGBT side characters in the “Kitty Norville” series, but not protagonists.
ALSO OF NOTE:
Although you asked for fantasy, I will bring up another Tor book, Raphael Carter’s “The Fortunate Fall”, even though it is very much science fiction and not fantasy at all, because it is an excellent book with a lesbian protagonist, so might be relevant to your interests in that way.
On Tor fantasy recs – one of the best things I’ve read in recent years was Daniel Abrahams The Long Price Quartet. A diverse setting, unique magic system, fleshed out characters and utterly devastating emotionally.
There is depth, there are emotional stakes and it does this without ridiculous grimdark anti-heroes that are no better than the villains.
I don’t think there are any gay chars, but it’s been a while.
@Mark – I think Brad Torgersen came up with it, as per his latest post on his blog.
The way he describes it, puppy-kickers refers to the extremists, relentless attackers who are abusive and delight in putting down the poor Puppies.
The way he (and the rest of his cadre) uses it, it refers to every non-Puppy except for Eric Flint.
Ann and Glenn H,
VD: “I note there is legal precedent in the UK addressing compensation for such activities.”
Well not really. There was a successful libel case where a newspaper was fined for a malicious review which contained falsehoods (The Telegraph on Lynn Barber). Barber’s book was non-fiction.
There was an earlier case where ManTrav (a Manchester travel firm) tried to sue a group of people for giving bad reviews. That got the company owner arrested (for harassment) and the case was thrown out of the High Court.
I have no expectation that a potential case about Castalia being harmed by reviews would be any more successful than the ManTrav case. Especially as reviews of fiction are nearly always going to be opinions.
Happyturtle – my experience exactly!
I may have missed it in the mayhem – did anybody offer a source / link for the facts about the Correia death threats business?
I’ll put in a “HIGHLY RECOMMENDED” for Carey’s Kushiel series. At least for the first two trilogies – I agree that the quality drops a little towards the end. (It’s nine books, grouped in three trilogies. There’s little cliffhangers from book to book and virtually none between the trilogies, so if the series is not your thing it’s easy to put down. Carey have pretty much stated that she’s not going to write more books in this world.)
Also from Carey on Tor is Banewreaker and Godslayer, an excellent twist on Lord of the Rings from the perspective of the “bad” guys. As a reader you’re basically rooting for the Witch King and his orc legions, in their struggle against the arrogant and holier-than-thou elves … Knowledge of the first and second age of Middle-Earth (i.e. Silmarillion and related texts, not just LoTR) is recommended to catch how thoroughly she builds on Tolkien, but I don’t think it should be necessary to enjoy the books.
@andyl
Oh, I don’t know. Given that Castalia House is a vanity press and Teddy Beale’s vanity is both gargantuan and extremely sensitive, I think he’s got a decent shot at proving that honest reviews did measurable harm to his principal and indeed only business asset.
Off topic – Craig R., who comments here and has had a couple of posts in the Hugo roundups, is currently in the hospital recovering from a mild heart attack. I’m heading back over there as soon as I get a few hours’ sleep.
So Tor is again the source of all evil again now? Common… by now the puppies are moving the goalposts so quickly that the game seems to have changed from soccer to the shell game.
🙁
All the best to Craig R.! I hope, he’ll recover soon.
@Leslie C
I am so sorry to hear the news about Craig R. Please give him my pseudonymous internet person best wishes for a swift recovery. Thank you for letting us know.
Leslie C: Craig R., who comments here and has had a couple of posts in the Hugo roundups, is currently in the hospital recovering from a mild heart attack. I’m heading back over there as soon as I get a few hours’ sleep.
Please give him my best and tell him to rest up and get better quickly. Until then, he’ll be missed.
@tirbenatron
I have it on good authority that in the immediate future a certain canine spokescritter is going to rename himself Baengersen just to show Tor who is boss.
Damn these puppies, driving poor Craig R to a stress induced heart attack. Hope you recover fully and assuming you’re a USAinian, without being bankrupted.
‘And frankly, we’re done being polite.’
The secret cabal of SJWs CHORFS and trufans who have affirmative-actioned the Hugos to destroy science fiction and possibly western civilisation must be relieved that they have finally provoked the Puppies to intemperance.
Best wishes for Greg. Hope he recover soon.
Best wishes to Craig R. Perhaps we should compose filk in his honor…
Best wishes to Craig R.
@snowcrash
Puppy kickers is such a lovely contribution to the tone of the discussion by Brad then.
Incidentally, I was looking for something else and stumbled across your adventure into the comments on his blog. It was…special.
this is (as many have pointed out) nothing but a move in the campaign by the various puppies to keep themselves relevant. To that end … I’m ignoring it and headed over to Tor to see what they have for sale that might appeal …
For my sins, I just clicked through and read Sarah Hoyt’s blog post. It’s astonishing. It’s a looking glass world in which everything that the Puppies have themselves done is projected onto this enormous group of unnamed (except for Gallo) people. Until this point I didn’t realise how much they believe that they’re fighting a war; and now I realise that the war will never end, because there is no actual enemy except the one in their minds. I feel sad for all of us.
Andyl: “I have no expectation that a potential case about Castalia being harmed by reviews would be any more successful than the ManTrav case”
Nor have I. Even under the UK libel laws he would have to show actual damage, and a causal connection. He’s got nothing.
Leslie C: Please add my good wishes for Craig’s recovery to the others. But please also make sure you look after yourself. It’s exhausting being the one doing the running around for the hospital bound. And make him listen to the damn doctors 🙂
Unwin: ” I realise that the war will never end”
The war is the point. Getting their followers into a state of defensiveness, creating an enemy and a conflict, and positioning themselves as the war leaders, is exactly what Hoyt, Torgensen, Correia and the others want. Fear, Uncertainty, and Dismay – the best friends a fraudster, a cult leader, or a meglomaniac could ever have.
You decide which of those the Sad/Rabid Puppy leaders might be.
Hoyt:
Reminds me of this video of a sad kitteh.
“I find all these discussions so weird. As a reader, I have never looked at what publishing house a book is published.”
But some of us will remember doing exactly that. Back in the ’60s I used to haunt my local library for the yellow jackets that signified a book from Gollancz. I read every single SF book they published.
Paul Oldroyd:
He, I read everything from the swedish publisher “Delta Förlag”, also with yellow jackets. But as I read everythin in swedish I could get my hands on, it doesn’t say much. 😉
@KB and I beliebe Meredith
The thing is, “not worse than Torgersen” is not a standard I’m willing to settle for. I expect Torgersen to do better and hold it against him that he doesn’t and the same goes for Gallo.
Plus, there’s the thing that careless accusations and lumping people together thoughtlessly makes it that much harder to counter genuinely problematic behaviour. For instance, Correia homophobic comment involving Scalzi: I’d like to be able to talk about that, explain why it’s problematic and hopefully get some people to understand the issue. This is made harder by people who use that single instance to call all SP and RP homophobes without distinction.
Finally, this has implications for debate in general. Conservatives do have a point when they complain that accusations of racism, misogyny, homophobia etc. are sometimes used as a weapon, to shut people down, tar them with something it’s very hard to shake completely. (I believe Requires Hate used that tactic frequently). I believe we need to speak up against that, irrespective of sides and issues.
P J Evans on June 7, 2015 at 8:52 pm said:
Or a member of *any* organization that has these things called ‘dues’! And how does he propose that Worldcon and the Hugos continue to exist without any revenue stream?
BAH! None of these people want reason or rationality to mess up their tantrum.
@Kyra
Actually Brandon Sanderson did introduce the first unambiguously gay male character to Wheel of Time when he took over. He’s also pro gay marriage.
Well, I’m very glad Mr. LaForce is here to lecture us on Internet civility with gems such as:
“…as thin-skinned as you and your merry band of gutless weasels.”
Seriously, does a Ring of Protection From Irony come with the Puppy membership kit?
MK41: The thing is, “not worse than Torgersen” is not a standard I’m willing to settle for.
I agree. I’d like people to be a bit more careful in what they call other people. Random insults are not helpful.
On another point, gay fantasy but not published by Tor, I’d like to stick in a recommendation for a book called, “Too Many Fairy Princes” by Alex Beecroft. It’s published by a small press called Samhain. It’s an unusual story, and I’m really enjoying it.
Random insults are not helpful.
And when I say that random insults are not helpful, coming here and calling us ‘gutless weasels’ does not help put forward a case that you’re a force for reason.
Send my best wishes to Craig R.
@Bruce. Thank you for the Peter Cook clip. One of my favorite Beyond the Fringe sketches.
But after watching the Cook clip I saw a link to an ENTIRE PERFORMANCE OF THE ORIGINAL BEYOND THE FRINGE. (Please excuse the capitalization because I am beyond all words.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUd1OxPbKk4
Oh, yes, to add to the discussion of the Gallo FB post:
Puppies always exaggerate
Best wishes to Craig R.
More wishes for Craig R to get well soon! He’s one of the best commenters here, informative and sensible, but I hope he doesn’t get back into this mess until he’s well enough.
On to other matters, it’s worth noting that despite the bad rep UK libel law has, it was recently revised, and one of the requirements now is that you have to demonstrate to the court a good reason to pursue the action in a UK court. In a matter of a US national running a publisher in Finland and living in Italy suing a random internet poster, Day would have to show some kind of non-trivial UK connection, like the commenter being British and posting from the UK, for example. Otherwise, he’d be SOL, I’d imagine.
Leslie C on June 8, 2015 at 3:02 am said:
Please give him my best wishes for a full recovery. We just went through a life-threatening health crisis about 18 months ago. It’s terrifying.
Get well soon, Craig.
Best to Craig R.!
@Noah Body:
I followed some of the links from Hines’s post to Correia’s contemporaneous writings on SP2. The self-pity was breathtaking.
@Leslie C
Best wishes for Craig R to have a swift and comfortable recovery.
As @NelC points out, the UK has tired of being the go-to-venue for libel tourism, and has recently significantly strengthened its jurisdictional tests for libel actions.
It would be unlikely that a Facebook post like the one we’re talking about would meet those tests.