Pixel Scroll 4/27/16 One Pup, Two Pup, Mad Pup, Sad Pup.

I started this Scroll yesterday before taking off in my time machine, and have just kept on adding. While I don’t plan to divide the Hugo news from other Scroll topics very often, it makes sense to do it today.

(1) QUICK WHATEVER. John Scalzi’s “Quick 2016 Hugo Finalist Thoughts” from Whatever on April 26.

Thoughts on this year’s Hugo finalists (the list of which you can find here):

* First, as part of my new gig at the Los Angeles Times, I wrote an analysis of this year’s ballot there, so head on over there if you want to see it (Note it’s geared toward a general audience, so there a lot of explanatory stuff in there folks here will likely already know). As I’ve already written substantially on the Hugos there, what I write here will be brief.

* Overall, the nominations in several categories look pretty decent to me – Best Novel is particularly not bad at all! At least a couple of categories are a tiresome shitshow, however, thanks to the Puppies, again.

* Which we knew might happen again, remember? Fixing the slating issue was a two-year process. This is year two. Keep working on it, folks.

* The Puppies are once again trying to troll a bunch of people (the Best Related Category is one particularly obvious troll) and while I don’t mean to downplay the basic craptasticness of their actions, I’m finding it all that difficult to get worked up about it. I mean, I know the Puppies are hoping for outrage? Again? But as noted, we’ve seen this act before, and this time it’s just boring. Yes, yes, Puppies. You’re still sad little bigoted assholes screaming for attention. Got it, thanks.

Bear in mind I’m a direct target for their nonsense; at least two of the finalist works go after me in one way or another. I’m very specifically someone they’re trying to get worked up (and to tear down). And yet I just can’t manage it. I’m pretty much over the Puppies. There’s only so many times a toddler can throw a tantrum before you just shrug. You still have to clean up after the toddler, mind you. But you don’t have to let the toddler dictate the terms. Pity these particular toddlers are grown humans

(2) MAN OF HIS TIMES. John Scalzi’s first piece for the LA Times, “The Hugo finalists: John Scalzi on why the sad puppies can’t take credit for Neil Gaiman’s success”, posted April 26.

This year, once again, the two Puppy groups announced slates (or in the case of the “Sad” variant, a “recommendation list”) of people and works they wanted to see on the finalist ballot. Once again, many of their choices made the cut. But where last year’s slates were filled with nominees primarily of interest to the Puppies themselves, this year’s Puppy slates included works and authors already popular with science fiction fans and tastemakers, and (as a subset of both of these) Hugo voters.

Works the Puppy slates included that made the Hugo finalist list include the novel “Seveneves,” written by Neal Stephenson, a past Hugo best novel winner and multiple nominee; the graphic novel “The Sandman: Overture,” by Neil Gaiman, also a multiple Hugo winner; the novella “Penric’s Demon,” by Lois McMaster Bujold, who has won four best novel Hugos; and the film “The Martian,” a best picture Oscar nominee (and controversial best comedy Golden Globe winner).

The Puppies will no doubt be happy to take credit for the appearance of these works and others on the finalist list. But, as with “Guardians of the Galaxy” last year, their endorsement probably doesn’t count for much in the grand scheme of things.

(3) MORE ALFIES. George R.R. Martin saw the new season of Game of Thrones kick off, then rode off to his own dynastic wars – “The Puppy Wars Resume”.

The record turnout seemed to have no impact. Fandom nominated in huge numbers, but it would appear that they did not nominate the same things. They scattered their nominations among dozens, perhaps hundreds, of possible choices. We won’t know the full story till we see the complete list of nomination totals on Hugo night… but I suspect (unless MAC cuts the list short) that we’ll see many more titles than we’re used to.

The same thing happened to the Sad Puppies. By shifting from Torgersen’s slate to Paulk’s list of recommendations, they suffered the same fate as many other recommended reading lists, be it the LOCUS list or the Nebulas or my own recommendations. They had almost no impact on the ballot. The Sads did get works on the ballot when their choices overlapped with the Rabids, to be sure, but very few works that were “sad only” made the list. SP4 was a non-factor. (And before someone else points this out, let me be the first to admit that the Sads had more impact than I did. As near as I can tell, I batted .000 on my own recommendations, which just goes to show that all this talk of about my immense power is somewhat exaggerated. No wonder I never get invited to the meetings of the Secret Cabal).

The big winners were the Rabid Puppies, whose choices completely dominated the list…

One last point. The Rabids used a new tactic this year. They nominated legitimate, quality works in addition to the dross. Works by writers like Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Neal Stephenson, Alastair Reynolds (Reynolds went public well before the nominations asking NOT to be slated, but they slated him anyway), Andy Weir, and several others. Some of these writers are apolitical (like Weir), while others are known to oppose everything that VD stands for (Gaiman, Stephenson, King). One has to think they were deliberately targeted.

In some of the online comments I’ve seen, these writers are being called “shields.” I’ve even read some people calling for them to withdraw, simply because they were on VD’s list.

Withdrawing is the LAST thing they should do.

I urge them all to stand their ground. They wrote good books, stories, graphic novels, they did NOT take part in any slate. In some cases they were largely unaware of all this. In other cases they explicitly denounced the slates ahead of time (Reynolds, again). Punishing them… demanding they turn down this honor… simply because VD listed them is insane….

(Oh… and yes, for those who were asking. This does mean we will need a second set of Alfies).

(4) SALADIN AHMED.

https://twitter.com/saladinahmed/status/725122354339270657

(5) RAY RADLEIN.

(6) ADVICE TO THE BOOKLORN. Tim Hall is swimming in the mainstream, in “Booky McBookface, by Noah Ward”.

I’m not a Worldcon member, but that’s not going to stop me giving unsolicited advice. So here’s my off-the-top-of-my-head recommendations.

First, ratify E Pluribus Hugo. This is ought to be such a no-brainer than anyone that attempts to argue otherwise is not to be trusted. It won’t fix everything, but it will make it harder for any well-organised minority to swamp the ballot.

Second, think very hard about the wisdom of repeating last year’s block no-awarding everything tainted, throwing good people under the bus in an attempt to preserve the purity of the awards. That stank when they did it to people like Toni Weisskopf last year. The garbage from VD’s cronies you can no award to oblivion if it’s as awful as it sounds from the titles. But remember that burning down The Hugos is VD’s goal, and no-awarding deserving nominees like Toni Weisskopf or Alastair Reynolds gives him what he wants.

Third, recognise that the Sad Puppies and the Rabid ones are very different things, and try to build bridges with the some of the first of those groups, or at least avoid rhetoric or behaviour that further deepens the divide with anyone who’s not an actual acolyte of Vox Day. The mass no-awarding of last year did not help in that regard.

(7) MORE GOOD ANSWERS TO WRONG QUESTIONS. Abigail Nussbaum responds with “The 2016 Hugo Awards: Thoughts on the Nominees”

… In most of the categories dominated by puppy choices, we still have an actual choice between nominees, not just a winner by default because everyone else on the ballot is terrible.  Most importantly, this year’s Best Novel ballot is one that we can look at without cringing, with only one blatant puppy nominee.  It may sound like I’m lowering the bar, but to me this is all a sign that things are settling down, and that in the future–and especially if the anti-slating measures adopted in last year’s business meeting are ratified–we’ll start seeing this award return to normal.

Of course, I’m leaving out one important point, which might cast a pall on this year’s more acceptable raft of nominees–the fact that most of them were puppy choices.  In some cases, these were nominees that probably would have made it onto the ballot without the help of Vox Day and his ilk–things like Neal Stephenson’s Seveneves in Best Novel, The Sandman: Overture in Best Graphic Story, and Strange Horizons in Best Semiprozine.  In other cases, the line is more fuzzy.  Daniel Polansky’s The Builders, for example, was a plausible nominee in Best Novella, coming from the strong, well-publicized Tor Novellas line and garnering a great deal of praise, but did the puppies’ influence help to push it past equally plausible nominees like Elizabeth Hand’s Wylding Hall and Kai Ashante Wilson’s The Sorcerer of the Wildeeps?  We won’t know for certain until the nominating stats are released after the Hugo ceremony (and perhaps not even then), and in the meantime this year’s ballot is a lot less clear-cut than last year’s.

To the puppies, this no doubt looks like a winning gambit.  To those of us who are adults, it’s just more silliness.  We are neither as stupid nor as rigid as they keep insisting that we are, and are perfectly capable of parsing these nuances.  And if this year’s Best Novella shortlist is a lot less exciting than the one I had hoped for–and which I think had a good chance of coming about–well, that’s how I feel about the Hugo most years.  I keep repeating this, but it really needs to be said again and again: despite the puppies’ ridiculous claims, the Hugo is not, and has never been, an elite or rarefied award.  If the puppies’ main accomplishment this year is to have pushed middling but not-awful work onto the ballot over better, more deserving nominees, well, then they’re no different from the majority of Hugo voters….

(8) QUICK AND THE DEAD. Damien Walter also has a few quick “Thoughts on the 2016 Hugo Awards”.

H P Lovecraft somehow managed to get nominated for a 1941 Retro Hugo, despite having died in 1937. Clearly some supernatural forces were at work…or some petty racists voting in revenge after Lovecraft’s erasure as the face of the World Fantasy Awards for being…a petty racist.

(9) LOVE. Aaron Pound’s thorough analysis of the “2016 Hugo Award Finalists” is rounded off with a compelling conclusion:

Both of the Puppy campaigns were built on spite. Larry Correia has openly admitted that he started the Sad Puppy campaign out of spite. Throughout the existence of the Sad and Rabid Puppy campaigns, the barely suppressed rage of its adherents has been readily apparent, and in some cases (such as during Brad Torgersen’s not infrequent frothing meltdowns over the last year or so), the rage has been quite openly expressed. Because of this, the Pups will always fundamentally misunderstand actual fans, who love what they love not out of a desire to spite someone else, but out of actual love for the thing. In the end, the Pups will fail because they are founded on the false premise that they can change what people love about genre fiction by force.

(10) ALLUM BOKHARI. At Breitbart: “Sci-Fi’s Hugo Awards Swept by Anti-SJW Authors – Again!”

This year, the Sad and Rabid Puppies have done it again. Ten out of fifteen Hugo Award categories have been completely dominated by Puppy-endorsed nominees — double what the campaigns achieved in 2015. The Puppies have also secured three out of five nominations for Best Novel, three out of four nominations for Best Short-Form Dramatic Presentation, and three out of five nominations for Best Long-Form Editor.

In total, the Rabid Puppies swept six categories on their own, while a combination of Sad & Rabid puppy nominations swept a further four.

Some of the Rabid Puppies nominations this year — such as a My Little Pony episode for Best Short-Form Dramatic Presentation and a porn parody in Best Short Story — seem clearly intended as troll options, a demonstration of the Puppies’ power to exert their will on the awards.

(11) AGAINST VANDALISM. Kayleigh Ann at Bibliodaze offers “We Have Always Been Here &Y Always Will Be: On the Hugo Awards and Cultural Vandalism”.

…Science-fiction and fantasy will move forward. It will continue to evolve and tell amazing, strange, radical and highly political stories, as it has always done, and the Puppies will cheer false cries of victory regardless of the outcome of the Hugo Awards: Their choices winning will be a sign that the industry agrees with them, and another No Award sweep (which is my predicted outcome) will simply be proof that they’re downtrodden underdogs who stood up against “Outrage Culture”. The truth is that nobody wins in this scenario because we end up having to participate in their Us Versus Them mentality in order to show a sturdy opposition to their nonsense.

Eventually, they’ll be left behind as the voices who have always been there refuse to participate in their cultural smudging. This particular kind of vandalism hurts us all, but those voices who needed the amplification of the Hugos will suffer the most, so it’s up to the rest of us to ensure that doesn’t happen. They’ll be left behind, but they still need to be called out and condemned for the dangerous vandals that they are. Get out your wallets, your microphones and your pens. We’re not going anywhere. We’ll always be here.

(12) STEVEN POORE

(13) VOX POPOLI. Vox Day did a reaction roundup of his own, “Making the Hugos Great Again”.

Of course the Sad Puppies can’t take any credit for Neil Gaiman’s nomination. The Rabid Puppies were responsible! As for whether Gaiman would have been nominated without RP support, they like to claim that sort of thing, but we’ll have to wait and see what the numbers say. Given their past record of ignoring popular, bestselling works, that’s hardly a given. In any event, as we proved last year in Best Novel, even when we don’t control the category, we still have the ability to decide who will win and who will lose when the SJWs don’t No Award the category.

In other news, we have a runner! Tom Mays belatedly decided to go the way of Marko Kloos. Not the brightest move; the time for virtue-signaling is before the nominations are awarded. It’s no big deal, not everyone can take the heat, although I suspect Tom is simply more of a Sad Puppy who hasn’t woken up to the cultural war yet. I was more interested to see that Black Gate caved and decided to accept their nomination this year; John O’Neill is a smart guy, he knows perfectly well that the nomination is well-merited, he grasps the genetic fallacy, and I suspect he has come to terms with the fact that the Rabid Puppies are not going away any time soon.

(14) CHAOS MANOR. Jerry Pournelle posted a reaction to his nomination at Chaos Manor.

I seem to have been nominated for a Hugo. “Best Editor, Short Form”. The only work mentioned for the year 2015 is There Will Be War, Volume Ten” released in November. It is of course a continuation of the There Will Be War series which appeared in the 1980’s and early 90’s, of which the first four volumes were recreated with a new preface during 2015; the rest are scheduled to come out in the next couple of years. I’ve edited a lot of anthologies, starting with 2020 Vision in 1973 (I think it will come out in reprint with new a introduction and afterword’s by the surviving authors next year. I did a series of anthologies with Jim Baen that was pretty popular, and one-off anthologies like Black Holes and The Survival of Freedom, amounting to more than twenty over the years, but this is the first time anyone has ever nominated me for an editing Hugo – and actually the first time I ever thought of it myself.

When I first started in this racket, Best Editor Hugo usually meant one for the current editor of Analog or Galaxy. That spread around over the years, but it meant Editor in the sense of someone employed with the title of Editor, not a working writer who put together anthologies, sometimes for a lark.

I used to get Hugo nominations all the time in my early days, but I never won. My Black Holes story came close, but I lost to Niven’s “Hole Man”. Ursula LeGuin beat me for novella. There were others. Our collaborations routinely got nominated, but again usually came second, so at one point I was irked enough to say “Money will get you through times of no Hugo’s much better than Hugo’s will get you through times of no money,” and put whatever promotion efforts I had time for into afternoon and late night talk radio shows and stuff like that. Which worked for sales, but not for Hugo awards. I’m unlikely to get this one – I’m a good editor but that’s hardly my primary occupation – but I admit I’d like to. I was already going to Kansas City this August, so I’ll be there, but I doubt there’s much need to write a thank you speech.

(15) COUNT HER OUT. Rhiannon Thomas refuses to repeat last year’s experience — “The Hugos Turn Rabid” at Feminist Fiction.

So… what now? It’s hard to take seriously any award with Vox Day’s “SJWs Always Lie” on the ballot. And unlike last year, I’m not going to soldier through the crap to weigh up its merit. I’ll probably read most of the novels, and pick up the non-puppy nominated shorter works, along with the ones by big name writers, because I’ve found that the nomination lists can lead me to interesting reading I would have missed otherwise. It’s basically my job to read endless piles of YA, and this gives me a focussed reason to finally pick up those other recent books too. But do we have to pretend that “Safe Space as Rape Room” is something worthy of serious critical consideration? The Puppies howl out for attention, and they’d hate nothing more than if everyone just ignored them. So let’s just pretend that their troll nominations don’t exist.

Of course, this approach isn’t without casualties. It’s obvious to anyone with a passing knowledge of fantasy and sci-fi that Brandon Sanderson and Stephen King are worth checking out, slate or no. But smaller writers? Not so much. Thomas A. Mays has already withdrawn his Hugo-nominated short story from consideration because of the slates, turning what should have been a moment of pride and victory into heartbreak. If we take the “slate works don’t exist unless they obviously have merit” approach, innocent writers still building their career get dragged down into the muck too. At best, they don’t receive the consideration they deserve. At worst, they get linked to Vox Day in everyone’s minds. And unlike big-name writers, they don’t have enough of an established reputation to shrug it off. It might appear that they need to withdraw to save their reputation, even though the Hugo nomination should have been something that would build their reputation in the first place.

And that sucks. But I, at least, can’t take another year of reading through piles of offensive and poorly written crap in search of potential specks of gold that may have been lost in the mix.

(16) CHUCK WENDIG. It isn’t lost on Chuck Wendig that “We Have A Problem”.

Like I’ve said in the past:

Dinosaurs squawking at meteors. Shaking tiny, impotent arms at the sky. The Empire, wondering where the hot hell all these goddamn X-Wings came from. Shitheel harasser assholes wondering when the world stopped listening to them and their diaperbaby bleats.

The other side of me thinks this is something deeper, darker, a vein of bad mojo thrust through the whole of the culture. Sepsis, toxic shock, an infection in the blood resistant to antibiotics.

But then I look and I think how thirty years ago I didn’t know what transgender meant. How three years ago I didn’t know what genderqueer was, and now it’s in the dictionary. I think about how we’re maybe on the cusp of having our first woman president. I think too about how social media has made the assholes louder — but it’s also amplified the voices of the non-assholes, and how conversations happen, tough as they are, across an Internet that moves fast and furious with both enlightenment and ignorance. I don’t know where we are or what’s going to happen next, and I know that I ping-pong between feeling optimistic about tectonic change and pessimistic about what that change has wrought.

I also know that no matter what we can’t just sit idly by. We push back. We vote no award when shitbirds nest in our award categories. We stand by those who are harassed by the worst of our culture. We stop sheltering the monsters and start protecting the victims. We amplify voices. We close our mouths and try to listen more. We master the one-two-punch of empathy and logic. We try to be better and do better and demand better even when we ourselves are woefully imperfect. I speak to geeks and I speak to men when I say: we need to get our house in order.

We have a problem.

But I hope we also have solutions.

At the very least, let this be a call that we need to do better by those who need us. Out with the bullies. Out with the terrorists. Gone with the ticks. We find those ticks and we pluck ’em out. Then we burn them, toss them in the toilet, rain our piss upon their parasitic heads, and say bye-bye as we flush and fill the bowl with clean water once more.

(17) AGAINST NO AWARD. Eric Flint, in “BUT FOR WALES?”, argues against voting No Award.

Theodore Beale and the people who follow him are idiots. They are petty chiselers and pipsqueaks whose notion of “the righteous battle against leftist wickedness and social justice warriors” is to try to hijack a science fiction award.

A science fiction award? Meaning no disrespect to anyone who cares about the Hugos, but the very fact that Beale and his gaggle of co-conspirators think this is a serious way to wage political struggle should tip you off that they’re a bunch of clowns with delusions of grandeur.

So treat them that way. This time around—remember, it’s 2016, not 2015—don’t hyperventilate, don’t work yourself up into a frenzy, don’t overact. Just treat the nominations the same way you would in any other year. Ignore who nominated who because, first, it’s irrelevant; and secondly, if you do you will be falling for a hustle by an idiot like Beale—which makes you an even bigger idiot.

Is anyone who’s planning to vote for the Hugos so ignorant or so stupid that they really think authors like Neal Stephenson, Jim Butcher, Lois McMaster Bujold, Brandon Sanderson, Alastair Reynolds and Stephen King need a slimeball like Theodore Beale’s approval to get nominated for an award? Are they so ignorant or stupid that they think editors like Toni Weisskopf, artists like Larry Elmore and movie directors like Joss Whedon and Ridley Scott are in the same boat?

Grow the fuck up.

Just vote, that’s all. Take each category for what it is and vote for whatever or whoever you think is most entitled to the award this year. Do NOT use “No Award” unless you really think there’s no work or person nominated in a category who deserves it at all.

(18) YOU CAN ASK BUT WILL HE ANSWER? Chuck Tingle did a Reddit “Ask Me Anything” today — “I am Dr. Chuck Tingle, 2016 Hugo Awards nominee for my book Space Raptor Butt Invasion. AMA!” He did it in character, so although the Hugos are mentioned once or twice, it’s basically played as farce. If you squint real hard (which I’m sure he would approve) at his comment about Vox Day, it includes the phrase “scoundrels never win.” Someone read that quote on FB and ran out to order ribbons….

(19) THE OTHER TINGLE INTERVIEW. Chuck Tingle was more forthcoming about scoundrels to Lauren Sarner at Inverse.

Do you know about the Sad Puppies, a group of people who try to disrupt voting for the Hugo Awards every year?

Don’t know about any puppies but it’s BAD NEWS BEARS if you want to disrupt awards. That is a scoundrel tactic and probably part of Ted Cobbler’s devilman plan. Ted Cobbler is notorious devil and has been seen using dark magic to control puppies around the neighborhood. I do not support the devilman agenda but i think that Space Raptor Butt Invasion proves that LOVE IS REAL and no scoundrels can stop that. Especially not some dumb dogs.

(20) NOW ON SALE. Two overnight sensations. One is satire. At least.

(21) SUNIL PATEL. Sunil Patel is still figuring it out.

(22) FOUR MORE. John Scalzi illustrates “Four Things About the Hugos” with Chuck Tingle’s cover art at Whatever. But it’s not all fun and games.

Fourth off, one of the finalists for Best Short Story, Thomas May, who was on the Rabid Puppy slate, has left the ballot, for admirable reasons. All respect to him for a difficult decision. I don’t believe this should be a signal for folks to hint to other finalists that they should follow his example, for reasons I outline above, i.e., this year’s slates were filled with people and work the Puppies put in for their own strategic ends, and are essentially blameless for an association that is unintended and/or unwanted. If you’ve got a mind to pester people about this, please consider not. Let them do as they will, just as you do what you will when it comes time to vote.

Thanks.

Filers will agree it’s a damn shame he didn’t have a fifth point!

(23) THE CASUALTIES. Katherine Jay chimes in at Stompydragons.

I am angry for the people who got knocked off the ballot because of the RP tactics. I’m particularly frustrated for the Campbell candidates who will never have another shot at that award because they’re out of time. Andy Weird was an RP pick, and I’m pretty sure he would have made it on the ballot anyway, but there are still three RP picks who are on that list and probably wouldn’t have been otherwise. Three slots that are denied to great writers who may never get another shot, because someone is playing silly games with the system.

I’m frustrated that seeding the RP ballot with a small number of works that would have been nominated anyway adds new kinds of dilemmas for many voters. Angry that many good works got bumped by crap VD was pushing. If you need any proof that his campaign has nothing to do with which works he thinks are genuinely good, take a look at some of the titles he picked, or look at what he said about one of the novels he chose (Seveneves).

Last year, after a lot of consideration, I voted No Award to all the puppy-related picks because I couldn’t condone slate nominating tactics. I still can’t support them.

But this year, if I do that, I’m also punishing works and writers who would have been nominated anyway, and I can’t make myself do that. Hell, I can’t No Award something I nominated–Bujold’s novella, The Martian–because that also makes a mockery of the process.

(24) SHAMUS YOUNG.

https://twitter.com/shamusyoung/status/725167136658866176

(25) GREY GRIPES. Grey The Tick (Grey Carter) is the author of Hugo-nominated Erin Dies Alone.

Yet his collected tweets are uncomplimentary of Vox Day.

(26) PHIL SANDIFER. Phil Sandifer will fight them on the beaches, in the fields, he will never give up.

First, as predicted, the Sad Puppies were a non-entity. That’s a little tough to judge given their new “we’re just a recommendation list” sheen of pointlessness, but it’s notable that the most conspicuous omission from their list, The Fifth Season, got a nomination in best Novel, and that in Fan Artist, a category where they had four picks, three of which were not on the Rabid Puppies slate, none of theirs made it on. Indeed, at a glance I can’t find anything that’s on their list, wasn’t an obvious contender anyway, and made it. These were Vox Day’s Hugos, plain and simple.

Second, let’s not have any silliness about pretending that what was picked reflects any agenda other than Vox Day’s spite. He’s been unambiguous that his sole goal this year is to disrupt the Hugos, not even making an effort to pretend that he was picking works on merit or because there’s actually some body of quality sci-fi he thinks is being overlooked by the awards. His only goal was to ruin things. The nominees exist only for that purpose. They are political, yes. Avowedly so. But their politics does not have even the barest shred of a constructive project. This is fascism shorn of everything but violent brutality – political in the sense of an angry mob kicking a prone body.

And so once again, the course is clear: we must resist. With every tool we have, we must resist. The highest priority, of course, is passing E Pluribus Hugo, the repaired nomination system that will serve to prevent this from happening again. Also important is No Awarding.

[Thanks to John King Tarpinian, JJ, and Hampus Eckerman for some of these stories. Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editor of the day Fugue.]


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206 thoughts on “Pixel Scroll 4/27/16 One Pup, Two Pup, Mad Pup, Sad Pup.

  1. @Happy Puppy: if they did that, it makes them nigh-indistinguishable from regular voters, and as such are irrelevant to a discussion on slates and slating. It would, however, be relevant to a discussion on how much control Teddy actually has over his Veiled Feckless Macaques.

  2. (21) but a Hugo acceptance speech was a nominee for BDP Short Form SO WHO KNOWS.

    Here’s the thing about the Drink Tank Hugo Acceptance Speech, though. I was there in the audience, and it moved me to tears. Seriously, y’all, I just wept. Chris Garcia himself was so moved, so affected, so genuinely beside himself–the moment just encapsulated everything that’s wonderful about this community and this strange little ritual we enact every year, all the love and affection we have for the genre and for fandom, and how much receiving that award means to its recipients. When the MC responded by saying (something like) “Ladies and Gentlemen, next year’s Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form,” I think there was a standing ovation.

    Did anyone seriously expected to see it among the finalists, even those who nominated it? I don’t know. I certainly didn’t expect it. But, goddamn it, I voted for it.

    Vox Day’s inclusion of Chuck Tingle on the Rabid Puppies slate had nothing to do with love and affection for the genre, for the community, for Worldcon and the Hugos. That had a lot more to do with spite.

    Now, Chuck Tingle himself (and, by necessity, the author behind the persona) is constantly demonstrating himself to be made of awesome. No shade on him. But his nomination cannot be compared with the nomination of the Drink Tank Acceptance Speech. Completely different animals. Heck, they don’t even fall under the same general category of “Not taking the Hugos too seriously,” because VD seems to be taking the Hugos seriously enough to want to destroy them. I do wish people would stop comparing the two nominations. They are worlds apart in every way that matters.

  3. @Nicole

    Fair enough. Pehaps a more apt comparison would be the 2004 BDP Short winner?

    Seriously I still cannot even…

  4. Chad Saxelid said:
    “Having done all that, I feel quite content in treating the SP/RP shenanigans as mind over matter. I no longer mind, and they never mattered. ?”

    I shall do likewise.

    @bloodstone75,
    Toni Weisskopf may well be an award worthy editor but as a Hugo voter, there was no way for me to know; she chose not to include anything in the Hugo Packet. So I could not in good conscience vote for her. It was much the same with George RR Martin who mentioned worthy editors. He might have first hand knowledge, but all I have to go on is someone else’s word.

    Snodberry Fields on April 27, 2016 at 8:03 pm said:
    It reminded me of the power we still have to evangelize the works that moved us this last year.

    In case you missed it, there was a File770 thread for people who were so inclined to share their nomination ballot for this year’s Hugos.

  5. *shakes her pom-poms for Phil Sandier*

    Anybody got any recs for Tingle/Beale fanfic? “If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love…”

  6. I think Katherine Jay is over indignant on the Campbell.
    I still think it’s a freaking weird set of definitions that allows someone to publish a book in 2012, see it made into a multiple Oscar nominated film and box office smash and still be a ‘new’ writer, but that seems to be what we’ve got to play with.
    Pierce Brown and Sebastien de Castel though strike me as reasonable nominees. Confess I’ve not read either of their books (both on the tbr pile) but others seem to like them, they’re obviously selling well and have found their niches.
    Does an award that puts the guy with three decently selling novels up against the guy with two short stories in an online magazine deliver a level playing field? Probably not. But unless they want a microseconds gong, the best short story from a previously unpublished writer kind of thing, that’s what’s going to happen.

  7. (3) MORE ALFIES

    Someone (I forget who, and I think the time machine ate the post) suggested that having used some pretty cool hood ornaments for Alfies Year One, he needs to escalate for Year Two. I’m sure GRRM can get some Space Shuttle parts or something, right?

    (8) QUICK AND THE DEAD

    Yes, what is up with that Retro nom for Lovecraft? Did he have some Fan Writer relevant work published retrospectively or something? And if so does anyone know what it is?

    (23) THE CASUALTIES

    Stompydragons is a brilliant name for a blog. I also very much agree with her point that the effect on potential Campbell nominees is particularly harsh, but mostly I just have this image of tiny grumpy dragons in little boots in my head now.

    (25) GREY GRIPES

    I know why Mike didn’t publish the whole series, but reading the full set of tweets will enhance your day.

  8. @nickpheas

    I DNF-ed Sebastien de Castel’s first book a week or so ago, when I ran in to a particularly terrible piece of early plotting where he provides the main character’s motivation by fridging his wife in flashback (As it’s probably going to be in the packet in some form, I’ll provide a content note: rape, suicide). Everything else had been competently done though. I guess I’ll be picking it back up at some point this summer.

    Judging novels vs short stories is a whole kettle of fish though, and I’m not sure of the best way to do it. The current ballot doesn’t help, tbh.

  9. Gah, there’s some self-proclaimed voting expert over on GRRM’s post who keeps arguing stuff that was discussed and analyzed into the ground last year, instead of going and educating himself on that extensive discussion before posting.

    I have less and less patience with people who keep coming in late to the party, thinking that no one has ever considered the things that they’re proposing, and wasting everyone’s time and energy re-explaining things as a result.

    I’d say this over there, but I don’t have an LJ login, and the one time I tried to post something last year using one of the posting ID methods which is allowed, my post never made it out of moderation.

  10. Oh, gods, this exchange of comments on Eric Flint’s post is priceless: 😀

    Brad R. Torgersen: argle Pravda770 irrational gulag bargle

    RDF: That’s right, Brad – people laughing at you on the Internet for being a self-righteous fool with no sense of perspective is JUST like Stalin shipping dissenters off to the Gulag. Thank you for educating us. We know we can always depend on you to be the voice of reason and moderation.

    Jim Henley: In fact, we arrived at our disdain for Brad via a completely open and democratic process.

    snowcrash: Transparent! Don’t forget transparent!

  11. @Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little: I do wish people would stop comparing the two nominations. They are worlds apart in every way that matters.

    Fair point. As a friend of Chris Garcia’s, I was moved, too.

    I don’t think in the case of the noble Mr. Tingle the suggestion’s in any way serious (certainly not from me). A lot of us just like meta-humour.

  12. I am forgetting… La Hoyt was certainly one of the people who was banging on about ‘Dignity Culture’, but wasn’t Brad doing the same at one point?

  13. nickpheas on April 28, 2016 at 1:49 am said:

    I am forgetting… La Hoyt was certainly one of the people who was banging on about ‘Dignity Culture’, but wasn’t Brad doing the same at one point?

    Yup. He also likes to use the term “crybully” to describe people. It is another example of what I like to call Bradirony.

  14. arrgggh!!!!
    I just realized I’ve once again ended up wasting time discussing Brad Torgersen whose actual relevance to what is going on amounts to no more than last-years-willing-smokescreen-for-Vox-Day. That guy just craves attention and he gets it by saying such stupid self-pitying things.

    OK I’m not saying anything else about Brad and if I start please tell me to stop.

  15. Hypnotosov: Has there been any comment from the SP4 camp on the nominations?

    My impression, based on the half-assed way that SP4 was conducted, the way that their effort this year was gamed by Vampire Guy the same way that they themselves had gamed the Hugos the year before, and the even more half-assed (quarter-assed?) way in which they waited until way too late to tally the recs for people to actually read them, and then posted them furtively and with zero fanfare…

    … was that the Sad Puppies had realized that they were merely tools of VD and were tired of it all and sorry they’d committed themselves to looking like such fools, and just wanted it all to go away.

  16. Hypnotosov on April 28, 2016 at 2:13 am said:

    Has there been any comment from the SP4 camp on the nominations?

    Not that I’ve seen. Nothing at the SP4 site or at Mad Genius. Brad and Larry have reacted more than SP4 has.

    [Puts a penny in the Brad-Jar]

  17. “Has there been any comment from the SP4 camp on the nominations?”

    Yes, from one of the three SP4-leaders, Amanda S. Greens. Seems she has gone full rabid this time. Also, according to tradition, she continues to defend homophobia. This time the homophobic screed of Moira Greyland.

  18. JJ on April 28, 2016 at 2:22 am said:

    My impression, based on the half-assed way that SP4 was conducted, the way that their effort this year was gamed by Vampire Guy the same way that they themselves had gamed the Hugos the year before, and the even more half-assed (quarter-assed?) way in which they waited until way too late to tally the recs for people to actually read them, and then posted them furtively and with zero fanfare…

    Mr Finn has decided that he is going to win the DragonCon awards instead on the grounds that they will be too big for anybody to mess with them – and yet at the same time the twenty+ votes he managed to get in SP4 will be enough for him to win.

    Time for a show tune!

    Something has changed for Declan
    Something is not the same
    He’s through with playing by the rules of the Worldcon’s game
    Too late for second-guessing
    Too late to go back to pups
    It’s time to trust his instincts, close his eyes and leap!

    It’s time to try
    Defying arithmetic
    He will try
    Defying arithmetic
    Kiss him goodbye
    He’s defying arithmetic
    And we won’t bring him down

  19. I saw somewhere a comment that compared Brad to Bukharin, and Beale to Stalin, in that Beale’s Rabid Puppies have more than supplanted the original sad puppies, completely co-opting their efforts. This might have been from Ian Sales, or Damien Walter, but I don’t have a link, alas.

    After being accused by Brad of wanting ship him off in a box car last year, my sympathy for him and his in regarding anything is pretty near zero, though.

  20. Paul

    Yep! Definitely difficult to think kindly of someone who thinks that not winning the Campbell is equivalent to attempted genocide.

    Of course, the fact that my father was a slave on the Death Railway probably affects my reaction on this one…

  21. @JJ Pretending it didn’t happen isn’t a great strategy, but at least it doesn’t involve name-calling.

    @Hampus That seems to have flown completely under the radar, perhaps because it is hard to see what her point is (beyond “the other side is evil”).

    @Camestros Maybe we can get Carly Fiorina to sing that?

  22. Hampus Eckerman: Amanda S. Greens. Seems she has gone full rabid this time. Also, according to tradition, she continues to defend homophobia.

    Wow, that post of Green’s contains so many errors of fact that… okay, it is perfectly consistent with all of her other posts, and those of the other Sad Puppies, which all contain massive errors of fact.

    I have to wonder what it is like to be around Puppies in real life. It seems like they are all living in some strange alternate reality. They must be heavily policing who they spend time around, because I find it unfathomable that they don’t have people in their lives who periodically look at them and say, “You know what you just said is totally whacked, right?”

  23. Green was defending Greyland. At no time did Green refer to Greyland’s opinions concerning homosexuality. Green was defending Greyland’s rigbt to speak out about her abuse.

    I urge everyone to click through to Green’s defense of Greylnd rather than believe such an egregiously wrong interpretation of her remarks.

    As to Eckerman — I now have the measure of your character and will no longer read or respond to your vile posts.

  24. @Hampus

    Yes, from one of the three SP4-leaders, Amanda S. Green

    I actually had to think for a few moments to remember which one she was. I get her confused with, umm, Cedar?

    Anyway, Paulk has provided the obligatory MGC post.
    Features: dubious definitions, claiming success b/c increase in participation, and moaning about “leaks” because she’s never heard of embargoed press releases.

  25. Hypnotosov, re responses from Sads: Declan Finn posted a blog article where he claimed victory on behalf of the Sad Puppies, since both Uprooted and Ancillary Mercy was on their list. So the novel ballot has two for the rabids, two for the sads, and only one (The Fifth Season) for the puppy kickers. Because clearly, Ancillary Mercy is nominated solely because of the love Puppies show for it. 🙂
    ***
    Paul Weimer, re Bukharin/Brad: I’m pretty sure I read that here on File770. Possibly in a comment posted right before the crash and later swallowed by it.

    ***
    Also in book related and slightly Hugo-related news: Tor announced yesterday that Nnedi Okorafor is writing two more stories set in the universe of the Hugo-nominated Binti. I’m looking forward to it.

  26. Happy Puppy: I urge everyone to click through to Green’s defense of Greylnd rather than believe such an egregiously wrong interpretation of her remarks.

    You’re really not doing Green any favors by encouraging people to go read that post, which is so rife with falsehoods and errors that it just makes Green look like a total tool.

    In other words, it’s entirely consistent with the reputation that she has established for herself with her posts over the last couple of years.

  27. While Sanderson has some political views I strongly dislike, I do think his blog post was quite good

  28. Green is criticising people (unnamed, unquoted, as usual) who were criticising Greyland’s post. Greyland’s post is 50% extremely tragic story, and 50% defending her resultant opposition to homosexuality. It’s possible that Green hasn’t bothered to read it and so didn’t know what she was commenting on, but if she did then her conclusions on why it was being criticised are willfully wrong.

    It’s worth noting that – like “Safe Spaces as..” – the nomination of Greyland is a VD souper genius trap, in which any criticism of Greyland’s entirely wrong opinions on homosexuality will be recast as trying to deny or defend her abuse. It might not be the most reprehensible use of someone else’s tragedy that VD has ever pulled, but that’s because he’s set the bar really high.

  29. I clicked through Hampus’s link to Amanda Green’s post.

    So Amanda Green was supposedly helping to run SP4 but doesn’t know for sure if it came up with ten “recommendations” in every category, and can’t be arsed to open another tab in her browser and check?

    I think JJ might be right; the impression I’m getting from Green is that she’s just going through the motions. She’s not even hitting the standard Puppy wordcount anymore.

  30. I’m kinda disappointed that Green has regressed such. She improved in recent times, actually providing links to people she was quoting and posts she was referring to, as opposed to her previous unsourced misinterpretations (most notably the bit in the Hugo packet last year concerning David Macks Star Trek novel) . Ah well. It’s probably gonna be a bit sensitive for all people the next few days.

    Anyways, off to watch Civil War! It’s good to live in a place with high levels of intellectual piracy – it ensures early releases!

  31. I urge everyone to click through to Green’s defense of Greylnd rather than believe such an egregiously wrong interpretation of her remarks.

    Oh please everyone do. I think Happy Puppy will be disappointed though, since it is yet another example of the kind of writing that serves to damage the reputation of the Puppy writing it. Green’s screed is so at odds with reality that it is stunning in its stupidity.

  32. Went and read Greyland’s post that the Puppies are pushing. Now I see what Hampus was talking about above; Green is not defending homophobia in so many words but the post she is defending is full-on homophobic, though it takes a while to get there. I gave up on it when Greyland decided homosexuality in general causes sexual abuse of children in general and came out in opposition to equal marriage on those grounds.

    I am perfectly willing to accept that her post is the sincere belief of an individual deeply damaged by sexual abuse during her childhood. That doesn’t mean I think her belief is true or that I’m going to support a work that argues for it.

    However given that Green can’t be arsed to open a new browser tab to check whether the campaign she is ostensibly helping to lead actually had ten recommendations in every category, I can well believe she couldn’t be arsed to read far enough into Greyland’s post to discover the full voiced condemnation of homosexuality in general.

  33. Happy Puppy:

    “Green was defending Greyland.”

    No. Green was defending a text by Greyland. A text where Greyland says this:

    “So I have begun to speak out against gay marriage, and in doing so, I have alienated most of even my strongest supporters. After all, they need to see my parents as wacky sex criminals, not as homosexuals following their deeply held ethical positions and trying to create a utopia according to a rather silly fantasy. They do not have the willingness to accept the possibility that homosexuality might actually have the result of destroying children and even destroying the adults who insist on remaining in its thrall.
    […]
    What sets gay culture apart from straight culture is the belief that early sex is good and beneficial, and the sure knowledge (don’t think for a second that they DON’T know) that the only way to produce another homosexual is to provide a boy with sexual experiences BEFORE he can be “ruined” by attraction to a girl.”

    There is a tradition of the puppies to promote homophobic works. This is no exception.

  34. I am an interested bystander in this Hugo controversy. GRRM and BRT are two of my fave authors. When I read their blog posts I generally agree with both of them. BRT does have a history of being oversensitive and overdramatic, but the thing is he has been receiving a lot of unjust criticism mixed in with the deserved criticism. I don’t think any of us regular people could withstand the amount of abuse he has received without reacting badly.

    I can see why BRT is angry at GRRM. GRRM did throw around many nasty insults at BRT and then pretend that BRT was the only one that wasn’t polite etc.
    Both of them descended in to name-calling but GRRM seems to think only BRT was name-calling. This isn’t true.

  35. would that Brad take the road followed by Larry … less crying, more writing and promoting. Larry’s still a twit that I mostly disagree with, but at least when he said he wasn’t going to be involved or comment … he’s mostly done it.

  36. Both of them descended in to name-calling but GRRM seems to think only BRT was name-calling. This isn’t true.

    Pointing out that the Sad Pups have very prominent members who are racist, sexist, and homophobic isn’t calling the Pups names. Pointing out BT’s own sexism, racism, and homophobia, all of which have been well-documented, is not calling BT names. BT getting bent out of shape because Martin accurately called him on his shit is simply BT trying to evade responsibility for his own actions. As usual.

  37. Doug:

    ” BRT does have a history of being oversensitive and overdramatic, but the thing is he has been receiving a lot of unjust criticism mixed in with the deserved criticism.”

    Which undeserved criticism is that? And what “nasty insults” is it you say that GRRM threw out? Do you think BRT was polite to me when he said this?

    “Ah, the Pravda 770 crew, come to enforce the correctness of our thinking. I bid thee a mighty fine hello, comrades. The Peoples Republic of Science Fiction is well-served by your noble efforts! Which way to the gulag? I think I missed the cattle train.”

  38. Doug

    Brad has reached the point where he’s writing hysterically about GRRM on Erik Flint’s page; he’s really not helping himself. I don’t know why he’s addressing GRRM on Flint’s page, but I would suggest that anyone capable of reaching out to Brad should try to make him realise that he’s simply making matters worse.

    ETA
    Also, please try to bear in mind that him accusing others of wishing to kill him also really isn’t helping.

  39. Pointing out BT’s own sexism, racism, and homophobia, all of which have been well-documented, is not calling BT names.

    To be fair, Torgersen’s wife is black, so accusing him of blatant old-school anti-white racism is obviously not going to cut it. He may support policies that contribute to systemically racist practices etc. but I certainly don’t consider him a racist in the dictionary sense of the term and I don’t think it’s a helpful handle here. Some entertainment news outlets did say he is a racist — a thing which they had to take back — so there has indeed been some name-calling.

    On the other hand, there’s no question that 90% of the toxic stuff has been flying in the opposite direction. I can’t think of a single (even slightly) offensive thing that GRRM has said during this whole mess.

    It should also be noted that Torgersen (as well as Correia) has been intentionally vitriolic and is trying to carve himself a big enough niche audience among conservative, Scalzi-hating SFF readers. That’s a business decision he has made and it has probably paid off. I’m fairly sure that his books are selling alright for a quite unknown low-to-midlist author and the whole SP thing has been a good thing for his name-recognition.

  40. For a writer, BT always seems to have trouble grasping that the word ‘you’ can be a plural.
    BT seems homophobic, but not especially racist or sexist. Obnoxious as hell, sure.
    He happily stands shoulder to shoulder with people who are racist, sexist and homophobic though. Some are all three. Most just manage one.

  41. To be fair, Torgersen’s wife is black, so accusing him of blatant old-school anti-white racism is obviously not going to cut it.

    That’s like saying someone can’t be sexist because they are married to a woman. Torgersen has stated that minority authors who won Hugos in the years leading up to SP3 only did so because of “affirmative action”. That’s a pretty racist claim. He may not be racist in all things, but he has expressed some racist sentiments, and has been called on those. He also chose to ally himself with a collection of people who have said a lot of other racist things, so he doesn’t get to claim that pointing out the racism of his buddies is out of bounds.

  42. At the moment I’m more worried about BT’s well being; for someone who has apparently made a business decision – stick it to Scalzi – he doesn’t seem to be following the plan. Ranting about GRRM, who has a lot of fans who buy lots of books, isn’t a good business decision.

    Doing so on Eric Flint’s page also isn’t a good business decision; I’m aware that he does at least some of Eric’s IT stuff, but Eric also has a lot of fans. There comes a point where Eric’s fans are likely to get pissed off with the rants.

    BT seems incapable of controlling himself; mentally that’s not a good place to be…

  43. @ Spacefaringkitten
    “so there has indeed been some name-calling”
    but not by GRRM, which was the original assertion. And even if there had been, what did Eric Flint do to deserve that rant on his blog?

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