(1) USED BOOK LOVE. Eric Flint weighs in: “How Should An Author Look On Used Book Sales”.
I ran across this blog by the author Kristen Lamb:
…while reading this article by Rachel Kramer Bussel in Salon magazine:
It will come as no surprise to anyone who knows me or who has read any of the essays I’ve written in the past on copyright laws and online piracy that I generally agree with Bussel’s stance and disagree with Lamb’s. But there are some issues involved that Bussel doesn’t address which I think are actually more important than the ones she does. Another way to put it is that I don’t think she goes far enough. The essence of her argument is that the situation is more complicated than Lamb presents it as being, and is not an either/or situation. While it is true that a book sold in a used book store may represent an immediate loss to an author, it can be made up for in the long run by exposing more people to that author….
To make a living as a full time writer, or even to derive a significant income from writing, an author has to constantly recreate their readership base. The process is dynamic, not static. And the main way an author does so is by having that huge penumbra of free books—“free,” at least, from the author’s standpoint—surrounding the much smaller number of books which get sold in a way that brings direct income.
That’s why Lamb’s view of the matter is so skewed. She’s right that it’s an either/or situation, but she doesn’t understand that the relationship between “either” and “or” is a necessary and beneficial one.
(2) MARKETING TO “FANGIRLS”. Her Universe Press drew the attention of the New York Times in “Narrowing a Gap in the Sci-Fi Universe: One Fangirl Giving a Voice to Others”.
Ashley Eckstein, a self-described sci-fi fangirl, believes women like her are often overlooked. So several years ago she started a company to sell apparel featuring brands like Doctor Who, Star Trek and Star Wars to other fangirls. Now, believing those same women need a voice, she is expanding into publishing….
“Liking Star Wars is not a trend; it’s part of who you are,” she said, adding that she was disturbed to see women harassed for liking sci-fi and fantasy. “It was troubling to me; it was painful for fangirls.”
Mrs. Eckstein started her company, Her Universe, in 2009 after searching for a Star Wars T-shirt at a comic book convention. Unable to find anything suited for women, she instead saw an opportunity to target an overlooked consumer. Her company has since expanded from convention and Internet sales to include retail partners like Hot Topic and, starting in March, Kohl’s, which will sell a line of Her Universe active wear.
Now, Mrs. Eckstein sees another opportunity, this time as a publisher of sci-fi novels written by women. She said she got the idea after receiving unsolicited manuscripts at conventions. “Fans would hand me a book and say, ‘I wrote a story and could not get it published,’ ” she said. “I would come home with stacks of books.”
(3) NOR-CON GETS A REMATCH. Norwich’s local science fiction convention is back after a year’s hiatus.
The annual science fiction spectacular was missing from the calendar last year, but details have been announced for a revamped event in October at a larger venue and with the promise of even more for sci-fi fans to look forward to…
Mark Dean, director of Nor-Con Events Limited, said: “We’ve had a year’s break to restructure and rebrand. Due to demand we’ve moved to a larger venue at the Norfolk Showground, which will allow us to have more people, more exhibits and exhibits that will be able to move around like the Daleks and R2-D2s because we’ve got the space.”
As well as celebrities signing autographs and taking part in question and answer sessions, there will be exhibitions, demonstrations, trader stands as well as the Norwich Star Wars Club UK, comic artists and cosplay – “costume play” – groups.
This con made the “crime news” in 2013 —
When police arrived at the Norwich Sci-Fi and Film Convention on May 12 they found around a dozen fans belonging to two rival groups involved in a bitter exchange outside. The convention’s hosts, members of the Norwich Star Wars Club of the University of East Anglia, had refused entry to some fans from the rival Norwich Sci Fi Club.
The BBC reported this story under the misleading headline “Star Wars and Doctor Who fans clash at Norwich convention”
(4) CRITICS’ CHOICE. The 2016 Critics’ Choice Awards were presented at a ceremony broadcast by A&E on January 18.
Mad Max: Fury Road dominated the Film division. It was the winner in nine categories including Best Action Movie, Best Actor (Tom Hardy), Best Actress (Charlize Theron) Best Director (George Miller), and Best Visual Effects.
Inside Out won Best Animated Feature.
Ex Machina was named Best Sci-Fi/Horror Movie.
In the Television division, Mr. Robot was named Best Drama Series, and its cast members won Best Actor in a Drama Series (Rami Malek) and Best Supporting Actor in a Drama Series (Christian Slater).
Outlander was selected as the Best Binge-Worthy Show.
Big Bang Theory’s Mayim Bialik received the award for Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series.
Also, Rachel Bloom of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend won Best Actress in a Comedy Series. (File 770 keeps track of her successes because of the Hugo-nominated Ray Bradbury music video she did back in the day.) Popsugar reports:
After the Golden Globes and the Critics’ Choice Awards, you should know who Rachel Bloom is. The star of The CW’s Crazy Ex-Girlfriend took home the Critics’ Choice Award for her role on the musical comedy on Sunday. She was clearly shocked to be taking home yet another award,…
(5) ADAMS OBIT. Television’s Grizzly Adams, actor Dan Haggerty, died January 15 at the age of 73. His New York Times obituary lists horror movies he made late in his career — Terror Night (1987), Elves (1989) — playing an alcoholic mall Santa — and Axe Giant: The Wrath of Paul Bunyan (2013).
(6) SCOTTY WOULD APPROVE. A Guardian story tells us, “Star Trek stars endorse SNP’s bid to establish Europe’s first spaceport”.
The Star Trek stars William Shatner and George Takei have backed the Scottish National party’s ambition to establish Europe’s first spaceport in the UK.
The SNP MP Philippa Whitford led a debate in the House of Commons on Thursday on the future of the UK space industry, which she concluded by giving the Vulcan salute. The MP made the case for a spaceport to be established in her constituency of Central Ayrshire….
Welcoming the SNP debate, the actor William Shatner, Star Trek’s Captain James T Kirk, issued a statement that was read out to MPs: “Space is one of the last known frontiers mostly untouched by mankind and his politics. In opening a debate on this subject, my hope is you take the tenets of Star Trek’s prime directive to universally and peacefully share in the exploration of it. I wish you all a wonderful debate. My best, Bill.”
George Takei, Star Trek’s Lieutenant Sulu, tweeted his support: “I wish the SNP and the House of Commons well on their debate about their space program tomorrow. #WhereNoBritHasGoneBefore
(7) TODAY IN HISTORY
- January 18, 2008 — After much secrecy, Cloverfield makes its theatrical debut. An Easter egg in the movie has the sea monster from The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, which was based on Ray Bradbury’s short story The Foghorn appearing in the driver side mirror of one of the cars.
(8) TODAY’S BIRTHDAY BOY
- Born January 18, 1882 — A.A. Milne.
(9) TRUE BLUE. The Cirque du Soleil is doing a new show in the Avatar universe.
It’s been six years in the making, and now Cirque du Soleil’s “Toruk” is setting up camp in North American stadiums, bringing audiences the magical world of the moon Pandora and its inhabitants from James Cameron’s blockbuster “Avatar.” …
The story of “Toruk” is set 3,000 years before “Avatar,” long before humans set foot on Pandora. It tells of a quest to find the mysterious creature Toruk, the only one who can save the sacred Tree of Souls from destruction
(10) THE SIMPSONS. Despite the Huffington Post’s clickbait headline, neither David Bowie nor Alan Rickman appeared in this 2013 episode of The Simpsons, however, what Benedict Cumberbatch does in the clip makes it worth 60 seconds of your time —
In the parody film Bart watches, a Hugh Grant-version of the Prime Minister, who is voiced by Benedict Cumberbatch, proclaims his love for a lower class lady named Eliza Commonbottom.
The two kiss, and a Pandora’s box of silly British pop cultural references is opened, which includes one of Rickman’s most famed portrayals, Snape (whom Cumberbatch also voiced), and a Bowie-penned song ‘All the Young Dudes’.
Oh, and there’s a ‘Doctor Who’ reference in the form of a TARDIS for good measure too – obviously.
[Thanks to John King Tarpinian, Hampus Eckerman, Andrew Porter, and David Doering for some of these stories. Title credit goes to File 770 contributing editor of the day, myself…]
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Grognards Destroy Science Fiction?
snowcrash, yeah, Dinklage’s terrible voice acting was what kept me from picking Destiny up when it was new. I asked my spouse to wear headphones when he played because it was so bad. It’s only since replacing it that I’ve taken up playing it at all.
Regarding That Dragon Cancer, I’ve found it difficult to even listen to reviews of that game without choking up a bit.
@NickPheas: “To defend Hoyt, and I’ve not read below the line, where she is quite likely frothing about communists, the article’s by Amanda. (Green?)”
Yes, but the first comment to the article is indeed a frothy Hoyt production.
Re: ebooks, used books, licensing, and purchasing –
That’s why I came up with this license. Anyone who wants to use this has my permission to do so, and any improvements to it are welcome:
Any idea who Amanda is talking about there?
I was doing fine with the blog post until she got into the ‘mean kids’ thing.
@rob_matic
b) they must be making out like bandits from their backlists, where they are basically reissuing for free
I suspect you’re right, but I did see a comment from an editor recently saying “A publisher’s take: ebook sales inflated as people bought up backlist releases. Now down to more realistic levels overall.” which suggests that the backlist effect is calming down.
Personally I’m a relatively recent convert to full ebook and I’m definitely experiencing that backlist effect – a fairly cheap ebook of something I own in paper usually tempts me.
Any idea who Amanda is talking about there?
I am unaware of anyone who is writing anything for the market while “on the government dime”. The level of cluelessness the Pups display concerning reality is quite impressive at times. What I was struck by was this, when she is complaining about what happened last year at the Hugos, she says:
The Hugo Awards are fan voted awards. They have no direct connection to the publishing industry. There’s no “business sense” for the Hugos to have or not have. This line from Green just seems to be part of the continuing misperception the Pups seem to have that the Hugos are some sort of marketing tool that they are being denied by shadowy industry insiders.
Re: e-book prices
Having settled into a personal acceptance that I’m only going to read a book if I get it in e-format, my price-break on e-books pretty much boils down to “how serious am I about wanting to read this book?”
If I have a strong and solid intention to read it, then any price that would be reasonable for a physical book at the same point in the release cycle is something I’m willing to pay. I.e., if the paper copy is only out in hardback, then I’m willing to pay hardback price. If I’d be willing to wait for a paperback version, I’m likely to hold out for that price. And if the paperback version would only be available in trade paperback and that price, then that’s the e-book price I’m willing to pay.
(Keep in mind, in all this, that I have a very well paying job and don’t balk at paying $100 for an academic press book if I really really want to own it.)
Conversely, if I look at a book and think, “Well, it might be interesting, but I dunno. It isn’t going to be near the top of my to-read list, and that means I probably won’t get to it at all, but I’m interested enough to pick it up.” Well, then my price-point is a bit less. And if my reaction is, “I’m really taking a gamble and there’s only a 10% chance I’m going to enjoy this book, but you never know when the mood might strike me,” then I’m only likely to pick the book up at sale price or sale-equivalent.
As an example, I picked up a series of 8 lesbian historic romance novellas (well, they were advertised as “romance” but definitely racier than that in fact) at a literal going-out-of-business sale for a price that I’d be embarrassed to pay for a cup of coffee. But I knew nothing about the author, the website had almost no information about the stories, and I wasn’t familiar with the publisher. So without that “nothing much to lose” aspect, I wouldn’t have bought them at all.
The market as a whole is probably made up of a lot of similarly emotion-based purchasing decisions. At some point I’ll get to make my own pricing decision because I’m planning to self-publish a collection of the stories I sold to Sword and Sorceress (plus some new material). So I get to do the calculation that balances out length (in the novella range for the whole collection), novelty (only one previously unpublished story), publisher status (self-published but with previously professionally published material), and that indefinable balance point below which people discount a work because the author clearly doesn’t place any value on it.
So I just finished reading Micheal Moorcock’s The Whispering Swarm.
Made it all the way to the end, but I feel like I’m missing what he was trying to do. It seemed to me an attempt to meld autobiography with the narrative of gateway fantasy and pulp adventure tales. Which is an intriguing idea and what made me want to read it. But I have to say, it seemed to often deliberately take the worst of both modes of writing and dispense with the best. The autobiography part felt very generic and impersonal, like a recitation of facts about his career and family life, with little anecdote to give it any life.
At the same time, the fictional narrative felt threadbare and repetitive. Repetitive to such an extent that, again, it felt deliberate, like Moorcock was intentionally writing badly. This extends even to the characterization of the protagonist, a semi-fictional Moorcock himself, and a more inconsistent, un-self-aware, self-justifying, and arrogant social dummy I’ve yet to encounter. But Moorcock is a Grand Master of SF and fantasy. So it has to be deliberate, right?
Anyone else read it? Did you grok what he was trying to do?
@McJulie
Elders Destroy SFF – 65 is a reasonable compromise. Like I’m in charge or something. LOL
@Iphinome
Old ones destroy SFF? Too many people don’t like being called old so I’m not sure how this would go over well but I could be wrong. My 2nd concern is people might be misled and expect something more like the next suggestion.
@Steve WrightGreat Old Ones destroy SFF? (Cthulhu’s autobiography? I’d read it.)
Doesn’t fit what I had in mind but I can see another set of special editions. Possibly invite authors who petitioned to have the World Fantasy Award changed submit stories. Or have 2 of the guest editors be Daniel Jose Older (new work) and S T Joshi (essays)
@Simeon Beresford Old Scrotes Destroy Science Fiction
Ummm… Elder Scribers Destroy SFF?
@James Davis Nicholl Grognards Destroy Science Fiction?
I think I’m going with no. I don’t see getting funding, submissions, and marketing potential. But I could be wrong on all of the above. You’ve been around and closer to the biz than I have. But Grognards?
I hope everyone is having fun with the various x destroy SFF discussions. I am. Keep titles and ideas coming if you are. A little silliness amidst 2016 deaths and very difficult topics we’ve been discussing helps me. Laughter relieves stress.
FCC disclaimer (LOL not really but…): I don’t work for Lightspeed but have backed all 3 of their Destroy SFF Kickstarter campaigns. I’ve also been a subscriber for several years. I have passing acquaintance with a couple authors and guest editors who have appeared in the magazine. We may have attended the same con parties, been introduced, and waved across a room after attending a panel or two. I may even had dinner with a couple as a tag along as part of a group because I was in the right place at the right time.
(1) USED BOOK LOVE
Over on MGC, Amanda weighed in on this as well today, starting by claiming that “Kristen Lamb comes down on the side of paying royalties for used book sales” which was a bit unfortunate because firstly Lamb didn’t actually say anything of the sort, and secondly it turns out that Lamb knows how to dish it out because she promptly appeared in the comments :
Which at least got a partial retraction (down to claiming that she didn’t say it, just “Inferred” it) from Amanda. Not that seeing the home of “we’ve been misquoted!” rapidly backpedalling is exercising my schadenfreude or anything….
Anyway, my take on used bookstores is that I’ve trawled around a great many in my time, cursing the publishers who put titles on the spine the “wrong” way round and so interrupting my browsing pattern.
She’s referring to what Vox Day says Damien G. Walter is doing.
What Walter says is he “won a grant from Arts Council England to work on his first novel.”
@Mike
“What Walter says is he “won a grant from Arts Council England to work on his first novel.”
Ah right, glad you worked out the allusion. That’s unlikely to be much in the way of a government dime then. While there is the occasional generous grant out there, anything going to a single individual is much more likely to be on the order of a few thousand pounds. Handy – or even vital – for a new artist struggling to break through, but hardly living it up.
@Heather Rose Jones
Sounds about the same as the traditional break between what to buy when in hard
cover, trade, mass market, etc.
Paying more based on how urgently you want to read something is basically the basis of the publishing industry. I’m baffled why anyone thought that would change regardless of media.
On used book stores and so forth: I got my first Mercedes Lackey book at my local used bookstore. I borrowed my first Stephen King novel from another kid in my class. Over the years, I’ve probably bought, oh, between twenty or thirty books from those authors, several of them the same book, since I lose books or drop them in the bath or convert to e-Books when I’m moving slash so I can read at the day job. As a writer, I feel like that’s a pretty good investment.*
First of all, I’ve already *been* paid for that particular book: it seems petty and grasping to throw a fit over what someone then does with it. I don’t just write for the love of it, but I’d rather someone read my books through a used bookstore or a library or whatever than not at all–for all the reasons other people have listed. Kids grow up and get their own disposable incomes; people ideally get better jobs or don’t have to get the car repaired that month; and so forth. People who both have the money and like an author will probably be more willing to buy new in some form than take a chance on the local used bookstore having the right copy in.
And honestly? People have been selling used books for as long as used books have existed. Many authors have been able to earn a living juuuuust fine despite that. Freaking out about resales/libraries/etc reminds me of the people who used to write in to Miss Snark fretting about why Agency X hadn’t called back or whether they should be using a pseudonym or whatever, and of the advice she’d always give: go write your next book instead. Worry about *that*.
On E-Books: Agreeing with Heather Rose Jones. These days I’ll only purchase a physical book if I’m going to be on a train or plane for a while: I get everything else in electronic format. It doesn’t take up room anywhere, it doesn’t weigh anything, and I *can’t* lose it on the train. (The concern about digital media “suddenly vanishing” if Apple or whoever freaks out has always struck me as a facet of people who were *much* better than I ever was about keeping their CDs unscratched, their cassette tape in the cassette, and their books in their proper place and with whole spines. Physical media lasted me, on average, about five years per copy.)
Likewise, I don’t really care much what a comparable physical copy costs. I don’t really *want* a hardcover, so if I buy one, I’m basically paying to read the book as soon as it comes out (which is rare) and buying the electronic version is functionally the same thing for me, though I can’t use it to kill insects.
* Plus as a romance novelist: it’s easier to sneak *those* books past your parents when you have a whole paper bag full of fantasy novels to hide them in. Just saying.
That MGC interchange in the comments was…interesting? I am not quite sure what to think, except that I believe I’m amused at seeing how the denizens of MGC interact with someone from outside their circle who flails about wildly and unpredictably.
If an ebook and an actual book are priced within a few dollars of one another, I will always buy the actual book. It’s not as convenient sometimes, but since I’m only buying the license when I buy an ebook, I factor that into my purchasing choices.
“Are OLD folks TRYING to DESTROY science FICTION?”
I’m thinkin’ of the kids with their e-books
Fresh-faced young fans, peekin’ in the blog
Roll comments on the web, see here!
Right here in SF Fandom:
Problem with a capital “P”
And that rhymes with “T” and that stands for Tor!
Now, I know all you folks are the right kinda readers.
I’m gonna be serious here.
Would ya like to know what impression they get
When they’re readin’ on Scalzi’s blog?
They don’t know they can vote, or nominate
Push an honest slate with only good writers!
Or take back fiction from SJ types
Just as long as they’ve shelled out forty smackers.
One fine night, we’ll all show up
Votin’ in the books we all enjoy!
Steely-eyed men and helpless women!
And space ships, and bug-eyed monsters
That’ll grab the hero’s girlfriend
Till he zaps ‘em with a blaster!
ZAP!
Mass-appeal for ya!
Friends… social justice is the end of fiction!
@Mark … On Arts Council funding.
I think the average grant is something close to £6k for an individual although obviously some get more.
Interzone used to receive Arts Council funding too. So lots of writers must have been indirect beneficiaries.
More of a government 10p, for starters.
@Rev. Bob
I could live with that kind of licence.
I’d still probably try and strip out any DRM involved in enforcing it, just because who knows what that DRM might get used for next year.
Yeah, that degenerated really fast. Lamb should have just exited after the first couple of rounds.
@andyl
Thanks for the data, I’m happy to only be out by a factor of two or so 🙂
@nickpheas: “I’d still probably try and strip out any DRM involved in enforcing it, just because who knows what that DRM might get used for next year.”
Which is exactly why the license says you can strip the DRM. 🙂
William Shatner: “Space is one of the last known frontiers mostly untouched by mankind and his politics.”
Wow, is that awkward.
The more so in that MP Whitford, a woman, was leading the debate. Well, one must find allies where one can.
Her constituency, Central Ayrshire, is just south of the one containing my dad’s hometown, Stevenston. I am tickled to think that one day a spaceport may serve Ayrshire, and I think Dads would have been amused as well.
Let us see what humankind and her politics will make of the final frontier.
Aaron on January 19, 2016 at 11:31 am said:
Remember, to a certain subset of people, unless you are Getting Paid, what you are doing is, by definition, worthless. Such people have difficulty comprehending any kind of volunteer fan activity. Because they personally will never do anything without Getting Paid, they assume that nobody else is doing so, either. Therefore, the convention organizers obviously are Getting Paid, no matter what they say (they’re obviously lying). Consequently, any perceived mistakes by the organizers of the Awards are “bad business sense,” because the purpose of running the convention (and giving the Awards) is to Get Paid.
(I’m very tender on this subject, because I’ve had people accuse me of Raking It In Under the Table from chairing a Worldcon, when in fact it cost me a lot of money, both directly (~$50,000, by my estimate) and indirectly (poor job reviews in my Day Jobbe, thus zero or lower raises), to do so. And it’s not possible to disprove such accusations, because tax returns and whatnot are “obviously faked.”)
I do pity people for whom the very concept of volunteering and amateur work (as in “for the love of it”) is a null. They must be very sad, bitter people.
Sherwood Smith (Who is approaching the relevant age) has been promoting some new stories she’s been doing about elderly ladies as heroes – she’s been calling them “old bats”. Clearly not a name that would work for everyone, but self-applied titles certainly can be weirder than externally applied.
Elders is the most respectful sounding one offered yet, but it has a First Nations’ usage connotation to me. Not that I wouldn’t read an entire book of stories about aged Ojibway, Cree and Iroquois saving the world, but it might not quite be what we were aiming for this time.
“The Elderly Destroy SF” feels more like it covers the right age idea, is respectful, and doesn’t hit a cultural button.
I’d say 65 or 70 as the younger limit.
______________________
I think people who denigrate used bookstores as lost sales also badly underestimate the sheer number of books that are plain out of print — including, in some genres, books a year or two old. Or less. Those aren’t lost royalties – if they can’t be bought used, they can’t be bought at all. Those aren’t also the works only of inactive authors, who can be shrugged off and discounted as not relevant to the lives of current writers. Sarah Monette’s The Virtu (second in a series) was out of print in hardcover before the fourth and final book was even on the shelves, and she’s not going to be anything like the only one.
Mind you, my fantasy licencing deal is one where owning a copy entitles you to read the thing in the manner of your choice. So if I own a physical book it comes with an e-text which I can read in preference if that’s the kind of thing I prefer (and it generally is).
The only mechanism I can think of for making this work would be that your e-reader must have a camera and you have to present it with a copy of the book from time to time. Or other reader device perhaps. It would need to have some way you could delay the validation, but not avoid it entirely, so that if you’re on a beach you can say ‘I will show you my copy of Groucho Speaks, but not today’, but I guess with the frequency of validation demands increasing the long you put it off.
Yes, fantasy I know.
RE: the backlist effect for eBooks — yes, it makes sense that there would be a surge of sales tailing off to lower levels, at least for any given book or author — I know there are several authors (Zelazny, Cherryh, etc.) whose electronic backlists are currently spotty, and I’ll be happy to contribute to a renewed surge as soon as Lord of Light, Jack of Shadows, 40,000 in Gehenna and The Dreaming Tree (to name a few) are made available.
I’m curious how used bookstores are doing. It used to be that I could comfortably walk to maybe five decent used bookstores and now I’m down to one which continues on but in a much reduced state.
I’m sure there are bookstores that have adopted to web commerce who continue to do well, but I would think that unless they’ve found a specific genre niche or are antiquarian/rare books, most traditional browsing used bookstores would have a hard time making their monthly rent. While I think printed books will continue, I wonder if people who are used to getting exactly what they want in two to three days will find the same pleasure as I used to get when I found an unexpected book in some dark corner or overcrowded bookshelf. Maybe serendipity is overrated.
I’ve been appreciating what seems to me a growing number of female heroes who are not youthful. I just started Carolyn Ives Gilman’s Dark Orbit and was pleased that the heroine has “deep parentheses on either side of her mouth and river deltas of wrinkles fanning out from her eyes.” This paragraph, on the disorienting effect of traveling in the form of a light beam and returning to a planet after 23 years that seem like five subjectively, promises good reading to come:
I do pity people for whom the very concept of volunteering and amateur work (as in “for the love of it”) is a null.
Well I, for one, greatly appreciate the work done by volunteers like you who make most conventions possible.
Seniors Destroy SFF?
Grays Destroy SFF? (nah, too easy to confuse with aliens)
@Jack Lint: According to this, used bookstores are doing quite well: In the age of Amazon, used bookstores are making an unlikely comeback.
nickpheas: I bought a kindle in 2010. Prior to that, because I live a 45 minute drive from any large chain bookstore, I had done most of my book buying by mail from Amazon. A couple of years after I got my kindle, I received an offer from Amazon to re-buy as an electronic copy any Harper Collins book that I had previously bought on paper through Amazon, at a cost of $1.99 each.
I’ve got to say that it was a win/win situation all round. I was thrilled to get an e-copy of some of those books, but would have been much slower to pay full price for them since I already owned a copy. Amazon/ Harper Collins/ the author all received a small amount of money that they would not otherwise have gotten.
The only reason it worked though, is that I am thoroughly embedded in the Amazon ecosystem and they had a record extending over years of what I had bought. I’m not sure how to generalize it to work more broadly.
Antediluvians Destroy SFF.
Pixel Scrolls Destroy SFF.
So we had our chance with the Sad Puppies… and the Sad Puppies had their chance with us. And they squandered it on … well, we all know what they squandered it on. And, having made their bed, they now must lie in it and whine. Well the whining would be optional, but they are Puppies.
As for Amanda Green’s Mad Genius piece that Dann pointed us at, the reasonable parts of it were said first, and in my opinion better, by Scalzi. I suppose it’s good that Amanda reiterated them; her principal readership may avoid Scalzi or discount everything he says on principle. But if I want to read it again I will just read it at Whatever without the side order of We Puppies Are The One True Way.
Additionally the comments at Whatever seem generally more reasonable to me; I am, in particular, at a loss to figure out how Sarah Hoyt imagines the Puppies have defended the rest of us from Theodore Beale, whom Puppies brought to the party and gave a proof of concept demonstration on slating to begin with, and collaborated with in subsequent years.
Elder Things Destroy SciFi
@Kip W Are OLD folks TRYING to DESTROY science FICTION?
Yes? LOL There keeping the poor kids off their lawn (out of the books). 😉
Great filk
@Lenora Rose Old bats
Geezers and Old Bats Destroy SFF
Wouldn’t Mike Resnick and Esther Freisner be great editors for this one? For some reason I’m picturing this done in the style of Chicks in Chainmail. I wonder if Ragnarok and J. M. Martin would have fun with something like this.
Point. I think it’s also used in Asian cultures. I think I’ve read it in translated work but my memory is not reliable.
I like. Although I don’t know many people who like being considered elderly. Western civilization really needs to do better on how we think/talk/portray people over a certain age
The age is hard. You don’t want to make it too old and have too many headliners dead. On the other hand if the age is too young people are insulated by being considered elderly. In my personal life elderly doesn’t start until someone is in their late 80s/early 90s. I think with people retiring later, or 65 but taking up a hobby part-time freelance career with the intent to work into their 80s, and living longer this will become more normal thinking 20-30 years from now.
The Aged Destroy SFF
Does that bring up images of fine wine and wisdom or wrinkles?
There is always 65+ Destroys SFF but it doesn’t have the catchy feel. Do you do a dueling one Under 30 Destroys SFF? Or 12-18 Destroys SFF? Add in Middle Aggers Destroy SFF.
A few just for fun:
Destroys SFF totally out of control
I’m over Destroying SFF
Learning coding by Destroying SFF Middle Grade
Men Destroy Romance
I’m seeing a theme for buttons/magnets/t-shirts/etc. CafePress or Zazzle store potential if nothing else. Maybe if someone’s interested they could talk with Lightspeed about sharing proceeds or something. Or not. I don’t know what’s copyright/trademark and what isn’t. Also whether one would want to support the magazine with things you’ve created. This might depend on whether your going with words only or including fun artwork.
I seem to be an exception in that I haven’t bought a paper book for four years and don’t plan to buy one ever again. I’m willing to pay a little more for an ebook compared to paper because of the added convenience.
I’m heard the arguments for ownership vs licensing but it just isn’t something I care about. The one time I’ve taken my books to resell at a used bookstore, I got $3 for 30 books, hardly a resale value worth fighting for. And on the rare occasion that I have lent books recently, I give the friend my Amazon password and let them download a copy – its worked without any problems.
@Tasha Turner
Men Destroy Romance is awesome and something I would totally buy, had me giggling at my desk, even.
On the eBook front, I’ve had a Kindle and a Nook and attempted to read a novel and magazines. I gave up trying to embrace this as a medium for me (and I’m only 28), but I generally won’t read it if it is only available in e-form. I need the physicality of a book. Short stories are even hard for me to read on the computer.
I’d say my buying is 90% eBook, and my reading roughly the same. I did buy an actual book today, a first edition (as far as I can tell) of Whiz for Atoms, the third Nigel Molesworth book. You can’t collect lovely old ebooks.
@bookworm1398: Yeah, to me “ownership” basically means “fuck me, I’m going to have to put this in a box someday.” Perils of moving a lot in my youth, I suspect. 😛
@Kevin Standlee
Not sure if I’ve thanked you for all the times you’ve stopped what you were doing to answer my questions. I occasionally invoke your name sure that you’ll pop up to help with ongoing debates and surprisingly you have every time. It’s amazing.
I’ve been on one concom and I volunteer at cons when I’m able to attend. I appreciate all the work so many fans and some pros do to make these things possible. And having seen just a little bit of the inside its a lot of blood, sweat, and tears which makes cons all they are. I’m sorry that most of the time my online voice is heard on problems that keep propping up in our community. I need to say thanks more frequently.
Kevin Standlee Destroys Commonly Held But Ridiculous Preconceptions About Organising The Hugos.
And SFF.
Tasha Turner: After seeing earlier discussion of reclaimed words, which in theory are being reclaimed by those who have been abused with them, I wonder if the persistent difficulty in finding a joke equivalent of “old people destroy sff” is that people can’t reclaim a word on behalf of a group they’re not part of?
There are times I have jokingly called myself a geezer, but I see that term was already analyzed and found lacking.
I did laugh at the ventures in other directions — like “Men Destroy Romance”.
@Aaron
Let me take a stab at this without all of the Hugo/Tor/Baen wrappings.
What is “Literature”? Like a lot of folks, I first ran into that question mumble-years ago in junior/senior high. (7th-12th grade for non-USAians) At the time, I was up to my ears in books from the SF Book Club. I was also getting into this relatively new character that you might have heard about. Some chap named Stephen King. I hear he’s sold a couple books here and there.
I don’t think I’m too far out of bounds in suggesting that Mr. King ought to be considered a part of the American Literature pantheon based on his lifetime of work. Yet the same teacher/friend that was shocked at the suggestion that Mr. King’s work is worthy of study way back then is still adamantly opposed to the same suggestion today.
Stephen King’s work just isn’t “Literature” in his “educated” eyes. (Poe was OK. Lovecraft wasn’t mentioned. FWIW, I came to Lovecraft later in life and found his use of language to be better than Poe’s. I’m slowly working through both of their catalogs.)
Like a lot of SFF readers back in the day, I was on the receiving end of similar sentiments about SFF. Modern SFF simply wasn’t “literature” the same way that other modern authors wrote “literature”. It was all about gate-keepers deciding what is and what is not worthy of attention.
So here we are today where:
** Heinlein’s Starship Troopers has been so fully distorted in movies as to be unrecognizable from the book.
** Readers are actively discouraged from reading the works of certain types of current authors based on gender and race.
** Authors are given “friendly advice” to avoid submitting to certain publications.
** One individual even thought it might be cute to come up with a t-shirt saying “Fuck your golden age Sci-Fi” (or something similar).
** Legitimate actions to get rid of the HP Lovecraft statue are accompanied by a smaller group seeking to discourage any interest in his work.
** The list goes on, “whisper campaigns”, etc., and most people already know enough.
More gatekeeping. Either real or perceived. I’m not trying to construct a list of grievances. I’m just trying to describe the battlespace*.
Couple all of that with a genre so large that no one person can read everything that is published each year and there will be factions.
I don’t know that there are any great solutions. I do know that being inundated with the usual rash of epithets in response moderately expressed dissent gets old.
It gets old in the political discussion areas where I hang out as well.
Regards,
Dann
*just calling a trough a trough.
I buy ebooks almost exclusively – if something’s not available in that format there are plenty of books that are, and my to-read list is already fairly long on ebook anyway. The only time I make an exception is some reference book I want is pricier as an ebook than as a used hardcover on Amazon… which is frequently the case. I’ve bought several hardcovers in the past year for 1 cent (and $3.99 shipping) from Amazon esellers.
After having met someone who had an old Rocket reader, and was unable to read half his books because of DRM after the reader died (the other half he could convert to EPUB), I’m a big fan of keeping an un-DRMed archive of the books that one owns. Because platforms die, and formats change, and readers get lost, and passwords get forgotten.
Dann: Who said anything about “Literature”? Your post doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the post of Aaron’s that you’re replying to. I would think it was the reply to some other post that I hadn’t seen, except that you quoted Aaron.